Difference between revisions of "Talk:Projectiles"

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== What about the flamethrower? ==
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The flamethrower is not a hitscan weapon, but it isn't exactly a projectile weapon either. Where does it fit in all this? Should the flamethrower be mentioned on this page? [[User:Monkeyfetus|Monkeyfetus]] 21:29, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
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== Potential corrections and things to look into ==
:I think it's technically a hitscan weapon, but with a set range in which enemies will be damaged... But I guess we should add it, tho. [[User:Delicious cake|Delicious cake]] 21:31, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 
  
== Sandman and Reflecting ==
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Hello, I have some ideas on things to potentially change on this page.
We need to confirm or disprove definitively whether melee weapons can reflect projectiles, and if they can, which weapons can reflect which projectiles. I added a sentence saying that the [[Sandman]] can hit baseballs back, but it was removed because we need a link to proof. However I don't see such a link confirming the claim that the Heavy can punch Grenades. The [[Sandman]] article says "The Sandman is able to collect baseballs launched by opposing Scouts, you can also hit them back in mid air which requires good timing." This however doesn't have a citation either. I don't really want this to turn into an edit war; let me know what you guys think. [[User:JARSInc|JARSInc]] 12:00, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 
  
== Sandman ball and it's reflects ==
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"The damage of the projectiles that are fired from the Demoman's weapons (after five seconds, in the case of stickybombs), the Flare Gun, the Detonator, the Manmelter and the Huntsman are not affected by distance; however, the Crusader's Crossbow has an inverted damage falloff (which means damage and healing increase by distance)." I think a few things should be changed for clarity.
  
It seems my contribution regarding the sandman ball reflecting other sandman balls in the air was removed, I'd like to note that I have witnessed and performed this in the past:  it's legit (just damned hard/lucky).
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I believe the damage of the projectiles from the Flying Guillotine, The Sandman, The Wrap Assassin, and The Scorch Shot are also unaffected by distance. The Fortified Compound is also unaffected but since it's a reskin of The Huntsman I don't know if that's something that should be clarified.
 +
The Crusader's Crossbow is also unaffected by damage falloff, and it does not have an inverted damage falloff. Instead, its base damage scales with distance.
 +
Meanwhile, The Loose Cannon's damage '''is''' affected by distance.
  
Adding to that I've noted the sandman ball reflecting other projectiles.  The first I've heard of it is [http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1371479 this thread] at SPUF, i've noted it's not confirmed as I've seen no evidence in my experience, nor on any video's.  Some people have asked for video's in that thread so I guess it's quite possible - I'll keep an eye out.
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All of this is evidenced by each weapon's damage information on their respective pages.
--[[User:RJackson|RJackson]] 05:09, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 
  
== "The Heavy can reflect grenades if he punches them with the K.G.B." ==
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It might be worth adding another column to the projectiles table at the bottom of the page that indicates if the projectile's damage is affected by distance.
 +
For example, the Grenade Launcher and Flare Gun would be marked Yes, the Rocket Launcher and Pomson 6000 marked No, and Mad Milk and Jarate marked n/a. Footnotes  can be added for specific details (like The Crusader's Crossbow's base damage quirk).
  
What is this I don't even -- [[User:OluapPlayer|<font color="red">'''OluapPlayer'''</font>]] <sub>([[User_talk:OluapPlayer|t]])</sub> {{adm}} [[File:User OluapPlayer Sig.png|Howdy, pardner!]] 22:03, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 
:Smashman and I tested this a while ago, at both normal speed and <code>host_timescale 0.25</code>, but were unsuccessful. — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] {{adm}} 22:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
 
  
== Testing projectile speeds. ==
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On another note, I think the flames from the Pyro's flamethrowers' are considered projectiles, but they're so different compared to all other projectiles in the game that I believe they deserve their own page. Maybe some key information could be added to the Flames section and the redirect to Fire should be expanded on? Some info on the flames can be found in [https://www.reddit.com/r/truetf2/comments/hia6uw/new_insights_on_the_flame_throwers_damage/ this Reddit thread].
  
How? This list isn't going to complete itself! --[[User:Vaught|<span style="text-shadow:pink 0px 0px 3px;"><font color=" #FFA6C9"><tt><big>'''Vaught'''</big></tt></font>]]</span> 05:29, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
 
:No one? :c --[[User:Vaught|<span style="text-shadow:pink 0px 0px 3px;"><font color=" #FFA6C9"><tt><big>'''Vaught'''</big></tt></font>]]</span> 20:48, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 
:I'd do it if I had any idea how to :S [[User:Moussekateer|Moussekateer]] 20:48, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 
::I'm curious how people got these numbers to begin with..--[[User:Vaught|<span style="text-shadow:pink 0px 0px 3px;"><font color=" #FFA6C9"><tt><big>'''Vaught'''</big></tt></font>]]</span> 03:13, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 
:::If you are feeling particularily devious, you can snoop around in the code to find out, but I've long since forgotten where... found a related article [http://technofovea.com/blog/archives/306 here]. [[User:Hostile Companion Cube|Hostile Companion Cube]] <sup>Roar</sup> 23:29, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 
  
== Midair Collisions ==
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Honestly I think information on how distance affects damage (both hitscan and projectile) might merit its own page too. I know the distance modifier is mentioned on the page for Damage, but since more detail could be added on the modifier, plus the damage page talks about more than just the modifier, that section could be linked to a larger page talking about it.
  
Just added a video showing an arrow hitting/exploding a crit rocket.  It seems legit.  Should it have a mention? [[User:Grug|Grug]] 20:42, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
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What do you guys think?
 +
[[User:Hiffan|Hiffan]] ([[User talk:Hiffan|talk]]) 01:01, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
  
== Jarate collisions ==
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:I can add a new row for the damage fall off stuff, but the Crossbow is technically not using inverted damage falloff, it functions practically identically save for critical hits so it won't really have a special note. The Fire projectiles are covered on this page and I'm not sure what extra you would mention here. Only the actual projectile info should be covered here, and as far as I can tell the Reddit thread doesn't mention anything really new or anything we should note anywhere on the Wiki. As for the falloff mechanic, I'm not sure it warrants its own page, but it depends on how much info you want to add there.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:14, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
  
This video shows that Jarate can be exploded be an arrow, even from the same sniper http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTv21YCB89Y this should be added to the table of projectiles [[User:Illegalwaffies|Illegalwaffies]] 22:22, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
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::If it isn't too much of a hassle to make the row, thanks. Are you saying that since the crossbow functions as if it did have a ramp it doesn't warrant a note? I understand that the flames stuff does go beyond the details as a projectile and more about other aspects. The details about their damage like the age of the flames and player temperature aren't on the fire page. Is that not worth noting? I thought it'd help to better understand how they work. As for more detail added to the distance/falloff, I was thinking about how the chart on the section for it in the damage page doesn't give info on the different ramps different weapons have, and how it doesn't mention all of the projectiles that aren't affected by it (similar to how it's written here). I don't know if/how much overlap in information is okay across different pages (eg. should the falloff info I suggested be on the projectiles page only, or would including it in the distance modifier section on the damage page be okay?), and I don't know if I'm trying to go into too much detail on these things, sorry.
:Done. I tested it myself to make sure and got a sweet shot on my 10th try :D '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:83%;">—[[File:User Moussekateer signature sprite.png|31px|link=User:Moussekateer]][[User:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black">Moussekateer</span>]]·[[User talk:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]]</span>''' 22:54, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
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::[[User:Hiffan|Hiffan]] ([[User talk:Hiffan|talk]]) 22:56, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
  
== Voice clip ==
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:::I'm not sure a note is necessary, as the only difference between reverse damage fall-off and the Crossbow would be that its base damage increases rather than modifying the base damage, so it only affects critical hits. It's best to mention this only on the weapon's page itself as a technical specification. As for the fire stuff, that's covered in [[Flame Thrower]] because it relates to the damage of the Flame Thrower rather than anything inherent to the fire particle itself, although if you feel it's relevant you can mention it. Avoid terms like "player temperature" though as that's just a term they use in the Reddit thread rather than something actually used anywhere else. I would substitute it with something like "The amount of particles hitting a player and the lifespan of those particles".
 +
:::The graph is to show the basics of the mechanic and not the specifics of everything. If you wanted to make a list of weapons that deviate from the standard ramp-up/fall-off, you can list them here and I'll try to turn it into a table.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 23:11, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
  
Doesn't sound anything like "crocket". [[User:NRAGE|NRAGE]] 16:30, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
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:::If you could put a list here of the projectiles from the table that are affected by fall-off, I can start adding the new row.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 22:59, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
:It sounds D: Listen again, and again, and again.[[User:Jagoba RL|Jag Gentleman]] 17:28, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Flamethrower particles are invisible? Since when? ==
 
 
 
The article states that flamethrower particles are invisible, but create a distortion effect. However, the bright orange flames spouting from a Pyro's primary weapon always seem perfectly visible to me. Are they just a visual effect, then, while the particles that actually do the damage and set people on fire are separate, and invisible? Can someone please clarify? [[User:Zoon-li|Zoon-li]] 19:15, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Yes. The "flames" you see are a visual effect spawned by the weapon when fired and not the projectiles themselves. You can confirm this for yourself in the viewmodel/world model codes for the Flamethrowers. (And yes, this means it's easily moddable and yes, it has been modded before several times for great lulz :D). [[User:Hostile Companion Cube|Hostile Companion Cube]] <sup>Roar</sup> 05:13, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
:If you want to check out the mechanics, type "tf_debug_flamethrower 1" with sv_cheats on and fire your flamethrower, or get a bot to do so. On a somewhat related note, the particles do not cast a distortion effect, they are instead completely invisible; and Sharpened Volcano Fragment does not use these particles to deal fire damage as claimed in the article, as it is an "On Hit" effect. I just tested both in the Item Test map. I'll fix that in the article. [[User:DarthVella|DarthVella]] 03:03, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Double post - sorry. I've found a pretty comprehensive [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSkf1yIAjzs video] dealing with the "flame" projectiles, if we want to add it in the article. I'm not sure whether or not it belongs though. [[User:DarthVella|DarthVella]] 03:44, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Alternative Projectile table ==
 
 
 
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align: center; width: 100%"
 
|-
 
! class="header" width=10% | Projectile
 
! class="header" | {{Tooltip|Speed|Approximate}} <small>([[Hammer unit|HU]]/s)</small>
 
! class="header" | Arcs
 
! class="header" | Sticks
 
! class="header" | Reflectable
 
! class="header" | Destroyed by
 
|-
 
| style="background-color: #F9D483;" width="155" | [[Image:Arrow proj.png‎‎‎‎‎‎‎|50x50px]]<br />[[Huntsman|Arrow]]
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" |
 
1875<br /><small>('''[[Huntsman]]''')</small><br />
 
'''''Unknown'''''<br /><small>'''([[Crusader's Crossbow]])'''</small><br />
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0; text-align: left;" |
 
*[[Huntsman|Arrows]]
 
|-
 
| style="background-color: #F9D483;" width="60" align="center" | [[Image:Sandman Baseball.png|50x50px|link=Sandman]]<br />[[Baseball]]
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | 1940
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | No
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | ''Nothing''
 
|-
 
| style="background-color: #F9D483;" | [[Image:Buffalo Steak Sandvich plate.png|50x50px|link=Buffalo Steak Sandvich]]<br />[[Buffalo Steak Sandvich]]
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" align="center" | -
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | No
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0; text-align: left;" |
 
* Any player can take it.
 
|-
 
| style="background-color: #F9D483;" width="60" | [[Image:Flare proj red.png|50x50px|link=Flare Gun]]<br />[[Flare]]
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | 1450
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | No
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0; text-align: left" |
 
*[[Flare]]s
 
|-
 
| style="background-color: #F9D483;" width="100" | [[Image:Grenade proj red.png‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎|50x50px]]<br />[[Grenade]]
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" |
 
850<br /><small>('''[[Grenade Launcher]]''')</small><br />
 
1331<br /><small>('''[[Loch-n-Load]]''')</small><br />
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | No
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | ''Nothing''
 
|-
 
| style="background-color: #F9D483;" width="60" | [[Image:Backpack Jarate.png|60x60px|link=Jarate]]<br />[[Jarate]]
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | 850
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | No
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0; text-align: left;" |
 
*[[Huntsman|Arrows]]
 
|-
 
| style="background-color: #F9D483;" width="60" | [[File:Mad Milk.png|50x50px|link=Mad Milk]]<br />[[Mad Milk]]
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | 850
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | No
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | ''Nothing''
 
|-
 
| style="background-color: #F9D483;" width="100"| [[Image:Rocket.png‎‎|50x50px]]<br />[[Rocket]]
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | 
 
1100<br /><small>('''[[Rocket Launcher]]/[[Black Box]]/[[Rocket Jumper]]''')</small><br />
 
1980<br /><small>('''[[Direct Hit]]''')</small><br />
 
'''''Unknown'''''<br /><small>'''[[Sentry Gun]]'''</small>
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | No
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | No
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0; text-align: left;" |
 
*[[Huntsman|Arrows]]
 
|-
 
| style="background-color: #F9D483;" | [[Image:Sandvichplate.png|50x50px|link=Sandvich]]<br />[[Sandvich]]
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" align="center" | -
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | No
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0; text-align: left;" | 
 
* Any player can take it.
 
|-
 
| style="background-color: #F9D483;" width="175" | {{Nowrap|[[Image:Sticky proj red.png|50x50px]][[Image:Scores proj red.png|50x50px]]}}<br/> [[Stickybomb]]
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | 805-1850<br />(Varies based on charge)
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Only to world
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0; text-align: left" |
 
* Bullets<ref name="r5">Only after attaching to a surface</ref>
 
* Melee weapons<ref name="r5"/>
 
* Syringes<ref name="r5"/>
 
* [[Scottish Resistance|Stickybombs <small>(Scottish Resistance)</small>]]
 
|-
 
| style="background-color: #F9D483;" width="80" | [[Image:RED Syringe Gun Ammo.png|60x60px]]<br />[[Syringe Gun|Syringe]]
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" |
 
990<br /><small>('''[[Syringe Gun]]/[[Blutsauger]]''')</small><br />
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Yes
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | Only to world
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | No
 
| style="background-color: #FEF5E0;" | ''Nothing''
 
|}
 
<references/>
 
How about this?--[[User:Kid Of The Century|Kid Of The Century]] 16:38, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 
: If it can be slimmed down, certainly; it looks a bit large at the moment - both vertically and horizontally.  I'll try get a slimmer version together in my Sandbox - moving to a vertical list is something I certainly want to see implemented. -[[File:User_RJackson_Signature_Colon_DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.png|link=User:RJackson|200px]] 17:18, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 
: How about this: {{User:RJackson/sandbox/Template:ProjectilesTable}} -[[File:User_RJackson_Signature_Colon_DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.png|link=User:RJackson|200px]] 18:14, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::Definitely better than mine. I'd center the numeric values and possibly separate the rows with multiple entries (arrows and rockets), but that's just me.--[[User:Kid Of The Century|Kid Of The Century]] 20:54, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::By the way, how are accelerated Stickybombs with the Chargin Targe? O_o?--[[User:Kid Of The Century|Kid Of The Century]] 07:06, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::::Oh, they're not.  I misinterpreted ''(Varies based on charge)''. I'll fix that.  As for seperate rows, Yeah I suppose that'd make sense.  -[[File:User_RJackson_Signature_Colon_DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.png|link=User:RJackson|200px]] 12:25, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::Nearly perfect. I'd suggest just a couple of details:
 
 
 
{| class="wikitable grid collapsible" style="text-align:center;"
 
! class = "header" colspan="7" | List of projectiles
 
|-
 
! class = "header" | Projectile
 
! class = "header" colspan="2" | {{tooltip|Speed|Approximate, determined by community testing}} <small>([[Hammer unit|HU]]/s)</small>
 
! class = "header" | Arcs
 
! class = "header" | Sticks
 
! class = "header" | Reflectable
 
! class = "header" | Destroyed by
 
|-
 
! rowspan="2" class = "subheader" style="text-align:center !important;" height=80 | [[Image:Arrow proj.png|50x50px]]<br/><small>[[Arrow]]
 
| style="text-align:right !important;" height=40|{{icon class|Sniper}} [[Huntsman]]
 
| 1875
 
| rowspan="2" | Yes
 
| rowspan="2" | Yes
 
| rowspan="2" | Yes
 
| rowspan="2" style="text-align:left !important;" |
 
*[[Arrows]]
 
|-
 
| style="text-align:right !important;" |{{icon class|Medic}} [[Crusader's Crossbow]]
 
| Unknown
 
|}
 
:::::Fixed cell height and class icons (I'd love to have those aligned on the left, in the "speed" column).--[[User:Kid Of The Century|Kid Of The Century]] 15:46, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::::: I don't really want to go with fixed cell height, but I've implemented the class icons. -[[File:User_RJackson_Signature_Colon_DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.png|link=User:RJackson|200px]] 22:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::::::Neither I love setting rows with a fixed heigth, but the seeing two rows in a table split 25/75 irks me to no end. <strike>Apparently using class icons has somewhat fixed the rows height...</strike> Nah, I was wrong.--[[User:Kid Of The Century|Kid Of The Century]] 14:44, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Flame projectiles and water ==
 
 
 
I've done a few tests with regards to whether or not flame projectiles from flamethrowers deal damage under water. I remember that they used to, but my tests showed that they don't anymore. However, there were some strange anomalies where I fired through water and dealt damage to someone on partially outside it. I suspect that they will not harm anyone if they make contact under water, but will deal damage out of water regardless of whether or not there was water in the way, but I've been unable to replicate these results. If anyone knows could they please let me know, otherwise I'll be looking for a map to figure this out on. [[User:DarthVella|DarthVella]] 04:13, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Short Circuit ==
 
 
 
We need some testing to figure out if the [[Short Circuit]] destroys [[Huntsman|arrows]], [[Sandman|baseballs]], [[Cow Mangler 5000]] lasers, [[Righteous Bison]] projectiles, [[Flare Gun|flares]], [[Jarate]], [[Mad Milk]], and [[Syringe Gun|syringes]]. The demonstration video shows it destroys rockets, grenades, and stickies. [[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|-Rocket Ship BBQ]] 18:50, 21 August 2011 (PDT)
 
 
 
== Huntsman damage ==
 
 
 
On the Huntsman article, it says the arrows it fires have their damage affected by distance. This article says exactly the opposite. I have no idea if the Huntsman has the damage it deals actually affected by distance between target and attacker; I'm sure only that it can deal more than 120 damage on a fully charged bodyshot with no additional buffs. If no one is sure, then I suggest removing the information from both articles. Cheers. [[User:Adreadline|Adreadline]] 12:06, 27 August 2011 (PDT)
 
:I'm positive that it has no falloff/rampup, as in it's not affected by distance. On the Huntsman page, the note under the damage information, which was probably added to all pages, should be removed.  [[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|-Rocket Ship BBQ]] 21:54, 31 August 2011 (PDT)
 
 
 
== Mangler's Projectile ==
 
 
 
The mangler's projectile is just a 3D white prism. Every other feature of the weapon is done via particle effects, making this particular projectile tricky to take an image of. I don't really know much about the particle viewer/editor, not enough at all to try and extract the particles. I-ghost suggested taking the prism and overlaying the particle on top of it, which would work just fine. Or we could just take a picture of the particle and ignore the prism (as it is entirely covered by particles in game). [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 10:48, 16 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:I don't know much about extracting, but I agree with simply the particle effects if the white prism is mostly covered ingame. Or, you /could/ take a screenshot from in game... [[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|-Rocket Ship BBQ]] 15:22, 16 September 2011 (PDT)
 
 
 
== Exact projectile speeds ==
 
 
 
So I digged around in the game's code and salvaged these numbers (taken directly from the game).
 
TF2 projectiles also cheat physics, each projectile has its own 'gravity modifier' to make the projectile fly exactly as Valve wants (tsk...).
 
Sadly I couldn't find numbers on everything, here's what I can find though:
 
 
 
Jar (madmilk, jarate): 1000u/s
 
 
 
Rockets (every rocket (cow mangler isn't listed) except the ones listed below): 1100 units/sec
 
 
 
Direct Hit: 1100u/s*1.80 = 1980u/s
 
 
 
Liberty Launcher: 1100u/s*1.40 = 1540u/s
 
 
 
Flames: Not sure exactly... The code mentions 1000 and 2000 as well as references to the 'current time'. My guess is that the particles start at 2000u/s and slow down to 1000u/s over time.
 
 
 
Grenade launcher: 1200u/s
 
 
 
Loch'n'load: 1200u/s*1.25 = 1500u/s
 
 
 
Crossbow bolts: 2400u/s with a gravity modifier of 0.2
 
 
 
Huntsman arrows: Scale from 1800u/s to 2600u/s in 1 second, gravity modifier scales from 0.5 to 0.1
 
 
 
Stickies: Scale from 900u/s to 2400u/s at max charge
 
 
 
[[User:CursedGhost|CursedGhost]] 15:07, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:Yes, game files are good. BUT! We have tested these projectiles and confirmed their actual speeds ingame. Coding is fine, but ingame proof is far superior. [[File:Painted_Vintage_Merryweather_803020.png|24px|link=User talk:Fyahweather]][[User:Flamborsia|<span style="text-shadow:orange 0px 0px 3px;"><font color="#FF6600"><tt><big><u>'''Fyahweather'''</u></big></tt></font></span>]] 15:35, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::In game testing is an imprecise science. If the in-game testing aligns with what we find in the game files, then we can reasonably expect the in-game files to be correct, and should use their more precise values. — [[User:Armisael |'''Armisael''']] <small>([[User_talk:Armisael |T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Armisael |C]])</small> 15:56, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::[http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1764/proofbolt.png Crossbow bolts] [http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3991/proofgrenades.png Grenades] [http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/8153/proofhuntsman.png Huntsman arrows] as good as I can prove the values I wrote. Should I edit them in the main article? (as well as edit the individual weapon pages affected) [[User:CursedGhost|CursedGhost]] 16:38, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::{{c|neutral}} I don't think you should put it on the actual page until we reach a consensus. However, I do think that the speeds in the files might not reflect the actual speeds observed in-game. After all, if the speeds in game are different, we want those speeds instead. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 17:56, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::I personally know that these values are correct, not sure how I can go about proving this though :(, for example rocket entities have a property "m_vInitialVelocity" which upon inspection states that the projectile is flying at 1100.0u/s [[User:CursedGhost|CursedGhost]] 19:15, 25 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::::I think observed value might be more useful, as I'm assuming the Grenade observed value is 850u/s because they measured its forward speed as opposed to its speed along its arc. Nevertheless, not many (read:none) people rely on accurate u/s measurements to improve their airshotting/etc. However, the numerical speeds do help gauge relative speeds between projectiles that behave differently, such as rockets and grenades; in which I think a single-axis measure (as opposed to along its arc) would be better. However, observed speeds are different anyways, as firing grenades up is slower than firing grenades downward. I'm completely undecided. Need more peoples' opinions. :P —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 21:09, 25 October 2011 (PDT)
 
 
 
== Monoculus's eyerockets ==
 
 
 
These deserve their own sub section.
 
 
 
They have two different speed, one which is slower than a scout and the other which seems to match the Libertylauncher. And a very notable difference is the eyerockets can be destroyed with rockets, arrows and syringues. Syringues even sometimes "deflect" them. I will make a video shortly. [[User:Hell-met|Hell-met]] 11:14, 10 November 2011 (PST)
 
 
 
== Righteous Bison projectile speed ==
 
 
 
I did some testing and the projectile speed seems to be about 1220 HU/s. Can anyone else confirm this before adding it in? [[User:NeoSamus|NeoSamus]] 23:25, 31 January 2012 (PST)
 
 
 
:After doing some testing I can conclude that the Righteous Bison/Pomson 6000 shots travel slightly faster than the default Rocket Launcher speed (1100), and travel at approximately default Grenade Launcher speed (1220). You are correct. [[User:Damax3rd|Damax3rd]] 08:37, 1 August 2012 (PDT)
 
 
 
::I pulled the velocity XYZ values directly from the projectile, they remained constant throughout the lifetime of the projectile, and the calculation ended up with 1200 HU/s. -[[User:FlaminSarge|FlaminSarge]] 14:13, 1 August 2012 (PDT)
 
 
 
== List of sticky entities ==
 
Can we get a list of the various entities that stickybombs do and don't stick to?--[[User:Henke37|Henke37]] 06:31, 18 October 2012 (PDT)
 
:I need to do those tests, but once those are done (and we actually save the information this time), then it'll be up. -[[User:FlaminSarge|FlaminSarge]] 02:53, 25 October 2012 (PDT)
 
:IIRC, it boils down to: if it moves, is a door, or is not solid, stickies don't stick. ==[[User:FaxCelestis|Fax Celestis]] <sub>[[User_talk:FaxCelestis|talk]]</sub><small>[[Special:Contributions/FaxCelestis|contrib]]</small><sup>[http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/ home]</sup> 08:58, 25 October 2012 (PDT)
 
::Rather, it's that if it's NOT the world (it's an entity/func_something), then it won't stick. This includes breakables, doors, etc. but I'm not sure whether it sticks to prop_dynamic entities, particularly since stickies stick to capture points. -[[User:FlaminSarge|FlaminSarge]] 05:48, 27 October 2012 (PDT)
 
 
 
== CM5K projectiles move slower? ==
 
 
 
It says in the article that normal rockets move at 1100 HU/s, while CM5K blasts only move at 1000. Is this actually true? I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else, and when I looked through the history, this bit of information just sort of appears out of nowhere in [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Projectiles&action=historysubmit&diff=1095682&oldid=1095659 this revision here.] [[User:Keybored6522|Keybored6522]] 15:37, 27 November 2012 (PST)
 
:I had done a velocity test on most projectiles a while back, so yeah, they should be correct. I'll doublecheck. -[[User:FlaminSarge|FlaminSarge]] 21:01, 4 December 2012 (PST)
 
::Dendodge accidentally reverted it when he made the table pretty. Nice catch. -[[User:FlaminSarge|FlaminSarge]] 21:07, 4 December 2012 (PST)
 
 
 
== Repair claw for the Rescue Ranger ==
 
 
 
I added as much information as I could. As far as I'm aware, the projectile is a CTFProjectile_Arrow with the model w_models\w_repair_claw.mdl, and functions similarly to a healing bolt from the Crusaders Crossbow in the terms of velocity and damage falloff.
 
[[User:Thediode|Thediode]] 06:24, 23 December 2012 (PST)
 
 
 
== Sandman/Wrap Assassin Ball speed differences ==
 
 
 
From [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kmGTwdgB7Q this video], we can see that the Sandman ball flies further and faster compared to the Wrap Assassin's. This means the projectile has a lower potential distance traveled. Anyone want to find out how fast the Wrap Assassin's ball actually flies? I'm asking the creator of the video. This was also really recent (March 2016).
 
[[User:Archrelico| '''Archrelico "Mexi"''']] 11:18, 1 May 2016 (PDT)
 
:Probably the smart thing to do is write a sourcemod plugin. Here's some basic code to find a sandman ball entity's position, this could (probably) be extended using Profilers to find the speed:
 
<pre>
 
public OnEntityCreated(entity, const String:classname[]) {
 
if(strcmp(classname, "tf_projectile_stun_ball") == 0) {
 
SDKHook(entity, SDKHook_SpawnPost, BallSpawned);
 
}
 
}
 
public BallSpawned(entity) {
 
new Float:position[3];
 
GetEntPropVector(entity, Prop_Send, "m_vecOrigin", position);
 
}
 
</pre>
 
:[[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 11:31, 1 May 2016 (PDT)
 
 
 
::Dang, how do I use this? Sourcemod's never been my thing. [[User:Archrelico| '''Archrelico "Mexi"''']] 16:24, 1 May 2016 (PDT)
 
:::I was more making notes for myself :) I'm happy to walk you through the setup, though. Here's the updated plugin: [https://github.com/jbzdarkid/Random/blob/master/projectile_speed.sp], I'll probably rework this on wed/thu. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 10:15, 2 May 2016 (PDT)
 
 
 
:::I'm still going to be way too busy updating the Community Strategy pages and finding out how to implement a skin variation section in Decorated skins, so I'll probably leave you to doing the calculations if you're really up to it. I honestly know nothing about Sourcemod. [[User:Archrelico| '''Archrelico "Mexi"''']] 10:40, 2 May 2016 (PDT)
 
 
 
== Incorrect Need Image Notice? ==
 
 
 
What is "needimage|Updated CM5K shot" for?
 
 
 
Is this just an update note incorrectly written as instructions for needing an image? [[User:Anyar|Anyar]] ([[User talk:Anyar|talk]]) 14:44, 8 February 2017 (PST)
 
: No, that's really what it is. Its the template we use for any time an image is required. the wording maybe off but it still gets to the point. Pretty straight forward.
 
[[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 16:16, 8 February 2017 (PST)
 
 
 
== Dragons fury fireball projectile ==
 
 
 
In the Projectile sheet for all projectile shows the dragons fury fireball and what can destroy it. It now says that only the short circuit can only destroy it, while in the wiki for the dragons fury it shows it can be destroyed by more. It is under the bug section, that is why i ask if those should be added to the list. [[User:MagicalJester|MagicalJester]] ([[User talk:MagicalJester|talk]]) 09:19, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 22:59, 21 February 2024

Talk archives
Intel blu idle.png Archive 1

Potential corrections and things to look into

Hello, I have some ideas on things to potentially change on this page.

"The damage of the projectiles that are fired from the Demoman's weapons (after five seconds, in the case of stickybombs), the Flare Gun, the Detonator, the Manmelter and the Huntsman are not affected by distance; however, the Crusader's Crossbow has an inverted damage falloff (which means damage and healing increase by distance)." I think a few things should be changed for clarity.

I believe the damage of the projectiles from the Flying Guillotine, The Sandman, The Wrap Assassin, and The Scorch Shot are also unaffected by distance. The Fortified Compound is also unaffected but since it's a reskin of The Huntsman I don't know if that's something that should be clarified. The Crusader's Crossbow is also unaffected by damage falloff, and it does not have an inverted damage falloff. Instead, its base damage scales with distance. Meanwhile, The Loose Cannon's damage is affected by distance.

All of this is evidenced by each weapon's damage information on their respective pages.

It might be worth adding another column to the projectiles table at the bottom of the page that indicates if the projectile's damage is affected by distance. For example, the Grenade Launcher and Flare Gun would be marked Yes, the Rocket Launcher and Pomson 6000 marked No, and Mad Milk and Jarate marked n/a. Footnotes can be added for specific details (like The Crusader's Crossbow's base damage quirk).


On another note, I think the flames from the Pyro's flamethrowers' are considered projectiles, but they're so different compared to all other projectiles in the game that I believe they deserve their own page. Maybe some key information could be added to the Flames section and the redirect to Fire should be expanded on? Some info on the flames can be found in this Reddit thread.


Honestly I think information on how distance affects damage (both hitscan and projectile) might merit its own page too. I know the distance modifier is mentioned on the page for Damage, but since more detail could be added on the modifier, plus the damage page talks about more than just the modifier, that section could be linked to a larger page talking about it.

What do you guys think? Hiffan (talk) 01:01, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I can add a new row for the damage fall off stuff, but the Crossbow is technically not using inverted damage falloff, it functions practically identically save for critical hits so it won't really have a special note. The Fire projectiles are covered on this page and I'm not sure what extra you would mention here. Only the actual projectile info should be covered here, and as far as I can tell the Reddit thread doesn't mention anything really new or anything we should note anywhere on the Wiki. As for the falloff mechanic, I'm not sure it warrants its own page, but it depends on how much info you want to add there.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:14, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
If it isn't too much of a hassle to make the row, thanks. Are you saying that since the crossbow functions as if it did have a ramp it doesn't warrant a note? I understand that the flames stuff does go beyond the details as a projectile and more about other aspects. The details about their damage like the age of the flames and player temperature aren't on the fire page. Is that not worth noting? I thought it'd help to better understand how they work. As for more detail added to the distance/falloff, I was thinking about how the chart on the section for it in the damage page doesn't give info on the different ramps different weapons have, and how it doesn't mention all of the projectiles that aren't affected by it (similar to how it's written here). I don't know if/how much overlap in information is okay across different pages (eg. should the falloff info I suggested be on the projectiles page only, or would including it in the distance modifier section on the damage page be okay?), and I don't know if I'm trying to go into too much detail on these things, sorry.
Hiffan (talk) 22:56, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
I'm not sure a note is necessary, as the only difference between reverse damage fall-off and the Crossbow would be that its base damage increases rather than modifying the base damage, so it only affects critical hits. It's best to mention this only on the weapon's page itself as a technical specification. As for the fire stuff, that's covered in Flame Thrower because it relates to the damage of the Flame Thrower rather than anything inherent to the fire particle itself, although if you feel it's relevant you can mention it. Avoid terms like "player temperature" though as that's just a term they use in the Reddit thread rather than something actually used anywhere else. I would substitute it with something like "The amount of particles hitting a player and the lifespan of those particles".
The graph is to show the basics of the mechanic and not the specifics of everything. If you wanted to make a list of weapons that deviate from the standard ramp-up/fall-off, you can list them here and I'll try to turn it into a table.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 23:11, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
If you could put a list here of the projectiles from the table that are affected by fall-off, I can start adding the new row.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 22:59, 21 February 2024 (UTC)