Difference between revisions of "Team Fortress Wiki:Archived discussions/Talk:Bazaar.tf"

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== How-To ==
 
== How-To ==
  
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I'll give this page another day or two, and then delete it. --[[Image:User LordKelvin Signature.png|link=User talk:LordKelvin|80px]] [[User:LordKelvin|<span style="text-shadow:#0031CF 0px 0px 3px;"><font color="#000087"><big>'''LordKelvin'''</big></font>]]</span> 08:33, 17 February 2013 (PST)
 
I'll give this page another day or two, and then delete it. --[[Image:User LordKelvin Signature.png|link=User talk:LordKelvin|80px]] [[User:LordKelvin|<span style="text-shadow:#0031CF 0px 0px 3px;"><font color="#000087"><big>'''LordKelvin'''</big></font>]]</span> 08:33, 17 February 2013 (PST)
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== Why is bazaar.tf "not notable" enough to be on the wiki ==
 
== Why is bazaar.tf "not notable" enough to be on the wiki ==
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:::::::: I will assume the main reason bazaar.tf is not allowed a page is because of the sites shadiness seeing as you didn't address anything else I said. So, the market manipulation part could be proven by simply posting a link to the page where it is supported, if they removed it then they obviously don't support market manipulation. As for the stolen code, you could start with those screenshots you have, feel free to censor whatever you feel is necessary, since screenshots are really easy to fake anyway, for example: http://puu.sh/59jQC . besides, if bazaar.tf has any dark secrets which you can prove exist, I don't see any reason you shouldn't expose them. If you are in the process of gathering evidence to expose said dark secrets, then you shouldn't treat bazaar.tf like it is guilty until you can actually prove that it is guilty. -[[User:Gimmechocolate|Gimmechocolate]] ([[User talk:Gimmechocolate|talk]]) 01:03, 5 November 2013 (PST)
 
:::::::: I will assume the main reason bazaar.tf is not allowed a page is because of the sites shadiness seeing as you didn't address anything else I said. So, the market manipulation part could be proven by simply posting a link to the page where it is supported, if they removed it then they obviously don't support market manipulation. As for the stolen code, you could start with those screenshots you have, feel free to censor whatever you feel is necessary, since screenshots are really easy to fake anyway, for example: http://puu.sh/59jQC . besides, if bazaar.tf has any dark secrets which you can prove exist, I don't see any reason you shouldn't expose them. If you are in the process of gathering evidence to expose said dark secrets, then you shouldn't treat bazaar.tf like it is guilty until you can actually prove that it is guilty. -[[User:Gimmechocolate|Gimmechocolate]] ([[User talk:Gimmechocolate|talk]]) 01:03, 5 November 2013 (PST)
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::::::::: I probably didn't address anything else you said because it deviates from the topic. Just like this is starting to. You're missing the point here though. The simple fact of the matter is that beyond this wiki, we (as staff, personal opinions aside) don't particularly care about someone's dirty laundry. It's not our place. I have no want or need to sabotage the site itself and the problems caused by releasing the accusations from their sources is not worth it at all. You yourself emphasized this by showing how easily one can claim that a screenshot is proof of something merely by inserting different HTML in a website. Furthermore this starts to come into the realm of actively trying to prove guilt rather than merely taking someone's word for it that the project isn't worth associating with. And that is something I couldn't in good conscience do without solid evidence like aforementioned emails. As it stands, and this is about the 3rd and final time I'll say it: This is a pragmatic decision based on existing evidence and consideration of the history of the author, and the site's notability. But in effort in trying to end this discussion: If you ask me, this site did not win any points once I saw a slur about it being a trading site "without jews" on a group post and a similar slur in a footer. Typical of something tied to 4chan and what I have come to call gamerprogrammers. That alone would have been a pretty damned good reason to remove the site in itself according to our policies and now that I've remembered this, any doubt I've previously had about this decision is gone. In fact, '''I'll archive this discussion while I'm at it. Clearly it's reached the end of its life.''' -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 02:24, 5 November 2013 (PST)
  
 
:::::: You mentioned notability, here's a 3rd party indication of traffic on the major TF2 trading-related sites (provided by alexa.com): http://puu.sh/52e5y -- maybe it's time to remove tf2items and tf2b since they've fallen lower than bazaar.tf? I personally think bazaar deserve its place. Maybe you don't use it or have never heard of it, but that doesn't mean it's not used by many in the community. - [[User:Ruiner|Ruiner]] ([[User talk:Ruiner|talk]]) 07:44, 4 November 2013 (PST)
 
:::::: You mentioned notability, here's a 3rd party indication of traffic on the major TF2 trading-related sites (provided by alexa.com): http://puu.sh/52e5y -- maybe it's time to remove tf2items and tf2b since they've fallen lower than bazaar.tf? I personally think bazaar deserve its place. Maybe you don't use it or have never heard of it, but that doesn't mean it's not used by many in the community. - [[User:Ruiner|Ruiner]] ([[User talk:Ruiner|talk]]) 07:44, 4 November 2013 (PST)
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:The previous page was deleted because, as I said, it was more of a how-to rather than an actual page that documented the features of the site. The quality of the previous page was substandard, so it was deleted. Additionally, I believe the site was still in beta at the time, and we have policies against creating pages for incomplete products.
 
:The previous page was deleted because, as I said, it was more of a how-to rather than an actual page that documented the features of the site. The quality of the previous page was substandard, so it was deleted. Additionally, I believe the site was still in beta at the time, and we have policies against creating pages for incomplete products.
 
:Different rules apply to community sites, as opposed to in-game content, I should think that would be obvious. I'm still not fully convinced that this site is notable enough to merit a page on the Wiki (mainly because the only place I've actually seen it mentioned is on 4chan, and even then only a very few times), and the Wiki should not be used as a form of advertisement in any case, otherwise every small TF2 site would demand to have its own page, which would create clutter. --[[Image:User LordKelvin Signature.png|link=User talk:LordKelvin|80px]] [[User:LordKelvin|<span style="text-shadow:#0031CF 0px 0px 3px;"><font color="#000087"><big>'''LordKelvin'''</big></font>]]</span> 22:28, 3 November 2013 (PST)
 
:Different rules apply to community sites, as opposed to in-game content, I should think that would be obvious. I'm still not fully convinced that this site is notable enough to merit a page on the Wiki (mainly because the only place I've actually seen it mentioned is on 4chan, and even then only a very few times), and the Wiki should not be used as a form of advertisement in any case, otherwise every small TF2 site would demand to have its own page, which would create clutter. --[[Image:User LordKelvin Signature.png|link=User talk:LordKelvin|80px]] [[User:LordKelvin|<span style="text-shadow:#0031CF 0px 0px 3px;"><font color="#000087"><big>'''LordKelvin'''</big></font>]]</span> 22:28, 3 November 2013 (PST)
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== Notability ==
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I believe that this page should be allowed another chance.
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Full disclaimer: I am a Bazaar "Affiliate". All this means is that my name on Bazaar is blue and that my community has a banner on Bazaar's communities page.
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In the interest of being accurate and informative, the wiki's admins should not allow their personal feelings to interfere. bazaar.tf is certainly popular enough to be considered "notable", regardless of how the site's staff may or may not have acted. The fact that this page was previously very poorly-written should not bar it from existing in the future, after being rewritten of course. bazaar.tf is still very actively maintained and developed. [http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1s9b85/cookie_clickeresque_type_of_game_based_on_tf2/ A reddit post] about a browser game developed by bazaar.tf reached the front page of /r/tf2.
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If the main reason for barring the creation of a new bazaar.tf wiki page is the fact that in the past it was merely used for self-promotion, then the problem is not with Bazaar itself. The problem was with whoever edited the page previously. Instead, allow someone else to create a wiki page. -- [[User:Dr. McKay|Dr. McKay]] ([[User talk:Dr. McKay|talk]]) 14:26, 14 January 2014 (PST)
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::Just looking at the Alexa rankings, Bazaar is ranked slightly above TF2 Warehouse, and significantly above TF2 Trading Post, both of which are listed as notable community trading websites.  The 3-month trend shows the rank has improved by about 90% in that time period, so in regards to popularity there isn't much to be debated.  The about page also shows information about popularity.  As I write this, 154k total users, 400 online, 640k trades, and 118k automated trade offers.
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::I hate to bring up the old argument that seemed to have shut this page down in the first place, but I'm not exactly sure how this kind of site could fix prices (if you know, please explain!).  From what I can tell, current item prices are gathered from [[backpack.tf]] automatically, with the source cited alongside of the price, and again on the about page.  As far as individual trade prices goes, that's up to the users.
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::The contributions to automated trading by the site's developer(s) is quite significant in itself, and I believe the exact same bot-base has been adopted by backpack.tf[http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/announcements/detail/1495491572933214028].  If a site has reached the point where it's affecting and contributing to the largest community sites, I certainly think it should have its own page.  [[User:Rannmann|Rannmann]] ([[User talk:Rannmann|talk]]) 15:08, 14 January 2014 (PST)
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:::I take it nobody with authority cares to respond to this? [[User:Dr. McKay|Dr. McKay]] ([[User talk:Dr. McKay|talk]]) 18:09, 12 May 2014 (PDT)
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:::Sure. --'''[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]]''' 19:40, 12 May 2014 (PDT)
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Latest revision as of 20:55, 11 January 2024