Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion/Archive 5
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Contents
- 1 Beta Trivia
- 2 Beta Weapons
- 3 Non-playable character slight edit.
- 4 Shuting doen the unofficial wiki
- 5 Weapon table layout
- 6 Class hats/misc nav merge
- 7 steam treasure hunt
- 8 Title Capitalization
- 9 Crap wiki, once again stealing our stuff
- 10 Change List of maps to a sortable table
- 11 Possible new design for class pages.
- 12 Possible Vintage Statuses on Item pages?
- 13 Nasty vs. Fancy update
- 14 Collapsible table sliding animation
- 15 VINTAGE BAN HAMMER
- 16 Nav Boxes for all Previous Major Updates
- 17 'Sockets' coming to TF2?
- 18 Class_nav Tranlation Switching
- 19 Possible New Items
- 20 Strategy pages based around combating classes?
- 21 The demonstration videos...
- 22 Damage inlining
- 23 My new hatnav concept
- 24 redirect pages for russian language
- 25 Tabbed boxes
- 26 TF2 on PS3, dead
- 27 'Update History' vs. 'Previous Changes'
- 28 Should weapons unlocked by achievements have their required number on their individual page?
- 29 Pages for Updates before the Engineer Update
Beta Trivia
We're getting quite a lot of trivia/info on beta items/maps etc. in the main articles. Good or bad?
- Oppose: The entire point of the beta is changing stuff often. We don't want to update the stats every day. --CruelCow (talk) 01:25, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose: Totally agree with CruelCow's point. —Moussekateer·talk 01:27, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Oh, I thought you were about to introduce a system where you vote on trivia to see if it'll pass. Anyway.
- Oppose:I agree with Cruel Sentry 01:30, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Very bad! Everything can change overtime, so there maybe be some attributes that doesn't come in the final version. Shock394 01:40, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Comment I think we should at least have a main article covering all the beta changes while keeping beta info off from the other articles. That way we have a tidy, easy way of accessing and editing beta-related info instead of single paragraphs scattered all around the wiki. Stab ! 02:10, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose: beta stays in beta. Beta is by definition not permanent and subject to change. You could keep beta in their old articles (ex. Fire retardent suit), for the more important changes/versions. You could simply mention there is a beta version, but even that is iffy.--Kurathedog 02:29, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose with reserve: In terms of practicality, just as CruelCow said. However, adding a special "beta" section on the item main page that covers every (stats, trivia, etc.) aspect involved in beta could be more manageable.--Kid Of The Century 15:38, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose: Too much can change within the beta that the main articles could end up hijacked talking about beta stuff.but 17:30, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Beta Weapons
Hello, looking at the Beta weapons article I was thinking, would it be a good idea to move the beta weapons page to say, Closed Beta Weapons and start a new article for the public Beta Weapons? Currently it is a bit ambiguous as to what beta these weapons featured in and I think this would go some way to help. Scatman John (Talk | Contrib) 18:48, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think there should be a separate article for the closed beta weapons. - LingoSalad (talk) 21:27, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- See: Talk:Beta_items. Netshroud 00:03, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support Its definitely a confusing thing. On another note, is there a separate page for the Beta and released versions of the GRU?
Non-playable character slight edit.
While I was browsing the site, I noticed a little...inconsistency I guess. There is a section under Non-playable characters for the two "unknown" men in the portrait over the fire place. Well If you look closely and the large version [1] you can read under the portrait it reads Zepheniah and Silas Mann, 1827. I'm new at editing and I was unsure about what to do, delete the pair of unknown individuals section, or edit it or what. Help would be appreciated. --Luke5515 21:23, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- Delete this section and merge that info into their profiles. —Moussekateer·talk 21:36, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- No problem. I just wasn't really sure what I was doing and didn't want to screw it up. --Luke5515 22:17, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- You should have really given it a go. You've got to learn sometime, so just give it a go. If you mess anything up (Which is unlikely), we can fix it up and let you know what occured and you'll learn. – Smashman (talk) 22:38, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- And if you mess up, just burn the corpses. Scalene 16:06, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
- You should have really given it a go. You've got to learn sometime, so just give it a go. If you mess anything up (Which is unlikely), we can fix it up and let you know what occured and you'll learn. – Smashman (talk) 22:38, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- No problem. I just wasn't really sure what I was doing and didn't want to screw it up. --Luke5515 22:17, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Shuting doen the unofficial wiki
How come the unofficial wiki isn't closed yet? It's an absolute mess there. Can't we convince the new users on the first wiki to come here? --Hobbes348 22:34, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
- Nothing we can do I'm afraid. We don't own the hosting and the current owner isn't open to the shutting it down. The problem is, it's still first in the Google rankings, so it'll still get traffic. We've tried a few ways to get their traffic over here, but nothing's stuck. Nevermind. It'll die. Just leave it. – Smashman (talk) 22:41, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
---Bummer, ah well. Wonder how long it'll last.--Hobbes348 01:05, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Weapon table layout
As per suggestion by Vaught in here, should we change all the current layout of weapon tables?
Weapon | Weapon Name | Kill Icon | Ammo Loaded |
Ammo Carried |
Damage Range | Notes / Special Abilities |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Stock |
Flamethrower | Fire:
Air blasts:
(same reserve) |
N/A | Base (Max):
Crit (Max):
Afterburn:
|
Secondary fire blasts compressed air which knocks back enemies, redirects enemy projectiles, and extinguishes flames on teammates, using 20 ammo per blast. All reflected rockets/grenades/arrows will inflict Mini-Crit damage. |
Or
Primary
Weapon | Kill Icon | Ammo Loaded |
Ammo Carried |
Damage Range | Notes / Special Abilities |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Stock Flamethrower |
Fire:
Air blasts:
(same reserve) |
N/A | Base (Max):
Crit (Max):
Afterburn:
|
Secondary fire blasts compressed air which knocks back enemies, redirects enemy projectiles, and extinguishes flames on teammates, using 20 ammo per blast. All reflected rockets/grenades/arrows will inflict Mini-Crit damage. |
— Neo_Player (t ▪ c) 01:37, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
- The second one -= M-NINJA =- 01:39, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
- Agree I like the second version. Looks way better and cleaner, and it makes more sense that the way the tables currently are. — Neo_Player (t ▪ c) 01:40, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
- I'll take whats behind door #2! (I like choice 2) Natemckn 01:42, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Comment Add a line break between "Flamethrower" and "Stock"and I'll support. :D --Leftism 12:24, 6 December 2010 (UTC)- Support I like it, though I think that it could still be better (as in, more efficient in terms of vertical space) Stab ! 15:56, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I like it too. (The second one) mcComBat (t • s) 16:02, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
- Any more feedback for this or can I go ahead and begin my conquest? :o --Vaught 18:03, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- Do eet seb26 [talk] 20:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- I don't mean to upstage him but i did improve the table a bit take a look at it hereLexar 22:57, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- I like the way you organized the damage and ammo, but I don't like the weapon image being so small. Put it the size that currenty is and center vertically the text in cells. I like with yours, looks cleaner. — Neo_Player (talk ▪ contrib) 04:27, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- I don't mean to upstage him but i did improve the table a bit take a look at it hereLexar 22:57, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- Do eet seb26 [talk] 20:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- Any more feedback for this or can I go ahead and begin my conquest? :o --Vaught 18:03, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Class hats/misc nav merge
I propose that the hats navs be merged as they look quite silly separated in their current state. I have prepared a mockup here of the new nav, along with the old navs for comparison. —Moussekateer·talk 07:04, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support Fuse them and name the new section "Cosmetic". BLUH 07:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support Agreed. Misc are hats anyway, they're just hats that don't go on your head. -- Netshroud (talk | contribs) 07:12, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support Not much to say, agree. — Neo_Player (t ▪ c) 12:25, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support It'll clean up the Medic and Pyro templates quite nicely. :D --Leftism 12:28, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support
Iunno..on one hand, you can make obvious connection with the hats you want to see the page about by looking at it, but if all 9 classes were to follow this, it'd probably make the page a great deal larger and longer. I'm no code master, so what about independent collapsed sections, with the class you're looking at as open? Like you're on the Nappers Respite page and scroll down and see the Pyro hat section open, but you want to see the Demo hats. You just uncollapse it and find the hat you want. Figured it would save space and all that. Just my two scrap!Hurk, I thought too much into this. This seems to work just fine! Sorry for the brick of text! --Vaught 12:49, 6 December 2010 (UTC) - Support Much cleaner and doesn't just leave the oprhaned item floating out there. Balladofwindfishes 13:19, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support Looks way better. mcComBat (t • s) 16:06, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support Sounds like a plan to me. -- クリザル_0 00:10, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support Looks great! - LingoSalad (talk) 00:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support the redo looks alot cleanerbut 18:01, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
steam treasure hunt
Hi I'm new however I have plenty of previous editing experience. I just wanted to give to the TF2 Wiki heads up about the Steam Treasure Hunt, which will have TF2 unlockables: the Bounty Hat (for completing 5 objectives), the Treasure Hat (for completing 15 objectives) and the Hat of Undeniable Wealth and Respect (for completing 28 objectives). Here's a link [2]. Hope this helps. Smashbrother101 00:52, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- The Great Steam Treasure Hunt -- Netshroud (talk | contribs) 00:53, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
- Thank you Netshroud. Just double checking to make sure everyone was informed. : D Smashbrother101 00:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Title Capitalization
Almost every article is inconsistent with title capitalization. Almost every hat has "Previous changes" with a lowercase c, but weapons have "Previous Changes" with a uppercase one, and that's just an example. Should we capitalize all the major words in titles or only the first one? — Neo_Player (talk ▪ contrib) 05:03, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- I would say a lowercase c. As that's what we've been going with. – Smashman (talk) 21:12, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Crap wiki, once again stealing our stuff
So they copy pasted our MediaWiki:Common.css including WindPower's font hosting. They've also got the few external files that we've got in there. So I say we do a few things. Change the external images that they're getting to stuff about their wiki being awful and to come to us. Then they'll get them. And let Wind move the font hosting, or at least have his server ignore theirs. They're officially getting beyond the pale. – Smashman (talk) 21:07, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- Hmm? – Smashman (talk) 21:42, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- I don't have a problem with them ripping our content. It's better them having our moderated high quality content than a load of useless information. Thinking about end-users of course. -RJ 22:04, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- Well I'd rather they came here, and I doubt Wind likes them sapping his server either. I wish I could come on the damn IRC. – Smashman (talk) 22:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- It would really be a matter of changing the filename/path on the server, then editing the stylesheet here to reflect the change. Then it would be broken for them. Problem is that they can just as easily keep switching it, and the font file is so small it barely dents his bandwidth. Especially considering it's unlimited. -- Lagg 22:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- Yup, well if we change the images that they get to something about coming to us and how their's is awful and then upload the normal ones in a different place and edit the stylesheet. Barely dents his bandwidth? Ok, but nonetheless, we don't want to be helping them. – Smashman (talk) 22:38, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- Well... granted they are "the competition" for web traffic, but they're not exactly "the enemy"... they're just misguided enough to think that their unofficial wiki is worth maintaining. I think if we start directly fighting with them, there could be annoying repercussions of some kind in the future. Just my $0.02, though. --Mar 22:45, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
- Yup, well if we change the images that they get to something about coming to us and how their's is awful and then upload the normal ones in a different place and edit the stylesheet. Barely dents his bandwidth? Ok, but nonetheless, we don't want to be helping them. – Smashman (talk) 22:38, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- It would really be a matter of changing the filename/path on the server, then editing the stylesheet here to reflect the change. Then it would be broken for them. Problem is that they can just as easily keep switching it, and the font file is so small it barely dents his bandwidth. Especially considering it's unlimited. -- Lagg 22:28, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- Well I'd rather they came here, and I doubt Wind likes them sapping his server either. I wish I could come on the damn IRC. – Smashman (talk) 22:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
- I don't have a problem with them ripping our content. It's better them having our moderated high quality content than a load of useless information. Thinking about end-users of course. -RJ 22:04, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Change List of maps to a sortable table
I propose that List of maps be changed to a sortable table such as User:Pseudo/List of maps --Pseudo 17:58, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose I prefer the current one personally, separated by objective; much more organized than a giant list. Stab ! 18:31, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support The proposed list still has them sorted by objective type, so it seems pretty well organized to me. --Mar 22:55, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support The new proposed list seems very simple to navigate and read. NihonTiger 23:01, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose Don't get me wrong, you did a good job on it. I just prefer the current layout. The subheadings make it easy to jump to any game mode quickly from the top and the divisions are just that much more obvious. Laid out as it is, you don't really need any further sorting. -- - (talk | contribs) -- 05:56, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support It's still easy to navigate and sorted by objective. Either way, definitely support adding the extra information like in your table E00 15:02, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- Neutral I like the idea of this, and love how you added the creator information and the release date to it. Only reason I don't fully support this is of how large the page seems now. In its previous style, its smaller size is less daunting and I am not sure you can make it smaller while still having this style. K-Mac (Talk | Contrib) 17:30, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- Update I altered the page so that each game mode is listed in the "table of contents" at the top, to quickly jump to that game mode's place in the table. I also made an alternate table that has a heading row for each map type. One potential issue with the alternate version is that when sorting by something other than "map type" or "filename", the heading rows will all be at the bottom of the table (or the top if sorting descendingly). For that reason, I prefer the version without the heading rows, but it is an option. --Pseudo 09:06, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
Possible new design for class pages.
User:Zoolooman/Demoman - Pilk helped me design this new version of the Demoman class page as an example.
Look over the page but ignore everywhere that it says "Zoolooman." This is apparently a result of the dynamic parts of the page. Any comments? Or do you think this is a good design to replace the current one? In other words, would you like to see all class pages made more like this userpage? Slimmer, more efficient, meaner. :D
Tiny changelog:
- Removed basic strategy section, merchandise, all class avatars, and all class hat nav.
- Vastly compressed the class weapon section, since weapons already contains a full list of weapon comparisons.
Zoolooman 17:14, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I like it. Looks great. If this is implemented though, the weapons page should have a table sortable by class to make comparisons easer. K-Mac (Talk | Contrib) 17:33, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support But you're missing the taunt attack -- Firestorm 17:59, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- Does it need the taunt attack? That seems weapon specific to me. Zoolooman 18:55, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- Strongly oppose Nothing personal, but to me it looks like you just deleted lots of relevant info about the class (weapon stats, basic strategy, taunt attack, etc.) without making any significant redesign or "compression" of the article to account for the space you freed up with the deletion. I do agree that the "all classes" hats and misc items seem unnecessary in a class page, but everything else should be kept. Stab ! 22:08, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- Eh Doesn't really look all that different to me, except half as big with half the info. Toomai Glittershine 22:14, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- A tad too far?: I agree that some of that stuff had to go (all class hat nav, etc), but cutting down the class weapons section seems unnecessary to me. In my opinion, having that quick reference on each class's page is rather helpful. -The Neotank ( | Talk) 22:19, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- Some good, some bad: While I like that some of the fat has been trimmed (all class things, basic strategy (that one was quite some controversy)), some shouldn't, like the weapon attributes. Consider the use case where someone wants to determine their preferred Demoman loadout, where would they do that conveniently? Having a bit more detail for weapons wouldn't hurt, especially the Primary one in the case of the Demoman (Grenade Launcher icon taking the whole width of the page seems a bit lonely). — Wind 23:41, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- Slightly Oppose Weapon info is very, very relevant to the class pages. Especially when trying to choose items that work well together. Having to slog through the weapons page to find all Demo weapons, persay, would be very inefficient. (also I just wanted to use Nope.avi) <3 TheMedik 23:46, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
- Neutral Same opinion as Neotank. -- OluapPlayer (t) 00:12, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
- Strongly support We don't need THREE different places all outlining the stats of a weapon. If you want to compare weapons, that is what the page Weapons is for. The rest of it is fluff that nobody who reads the class pages is actually interested in knowing. 03:30, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
- Neutral I'm just no sure yet. --EvilDeadFan 16:31, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I like the leaner and cleaner look of the page, but I agree that it makes weapon comparisons more difficult. Splitting the currently unwieldy Weapons page to class-specific pages might be something to consider, since comparing weapons between classes doesn't make a lot of sense anyway. NVis 18:33, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I think bigger pictures are good. This wiki isn't so serious and must be more attractive (it's right word?) then wikipedia. - Juffin 18:36, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
- CommentEh... where do you see the bigger pictures? The size is the same in both versions... Stab ! 22:14, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I like it - it's small and looks great. --Parseus ( | talk) 06:47, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
- It's all little... big Not that I hate it, but the weapon section is a little ugly... and the page feels short without all those other things. But I mean, it's not like I have much say here anywase, right? : D Smashbrother101 23:11, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
- Neutral It has been simplified and definitely looks cleaner, but it depends upon whether or not readers would like to have all of the information on one page for convenience (e.g. damage, etc) or would be happy to view multiple pages in order to acquire the same information. The current design allows the information to be obtained at a glance however, and in my experience wiki users are usually interested in specific information and wish to obtain it quickly. As such, hosting all the information in the one page, while a little cluttered, if efficient for the user as it means that only one "click" is required. Esquilax 23:19, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
- Neutral I'd like to see the weapon stats as a quick reference. I don't think a user will want to navigate to a different page to find simple weapon stats Balladofwindfishes 01:36, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
Possible Vintage Statuses on Item pages?
Hiya, I signed up a few weeks ago but havn't been able to do many edits, or contribute much, but hope to do so with the christams holidays round the corner :)
Anyway, I thought I would suggest the idea, that on hat and weapon pages, on the right hand side where it says "tradeable", "giftable" etc... We should have another one saying if its possible for it to be vintage, as it seems that with the lugermorph and the recent KF items being released after the mann co update, more items in future may be eligiable for vintage status, plus some items aren't capable of having vintage status even before mann co update (like service medals, and the 119th update medals).
Just an idea, just thought it would help clarify for people who aren't sure and care bout this sort of thing :)
Chelsea 17:45, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
- I don't think it's necessary since all items (except promotional, excludes Lugermorph) released before Septemeber 30, 2010 turned into Vintage, they can still get that same item but in the Unique version TL;DR Nope. Shock394 03:33, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
I know but like I said, not all items before the mann co update are eligable for vintage status, plus it seems likely that more items may receiev it, just thought it would make it clearer? Chelsea 16:01, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
- I'm going to have to disagree, it's unnecessary information. All hats before the Mann-conomy update were made vintage, with the exception of promo items. The Lugermorph is the only exception to this. Doesn't justify a vintage-able attribute. —Moussekateer·talk 15:45, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose While it is interesting, it's not needed, and the items that shouldn't be vintage but are will muddle things up. (Bill's Hat, GMSM, etc.) TheMedik 15:48, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
Original: Weapons
User:Zoolooman/Weapons
User:Zoolooman/Weapons2
I made two possibilities, both of which sort the page by class instead of slot. I was implementing Weapons2, but seb wanted a vote, so why not? I prefer Weapons2 because it's less cluttered. What do you prefer and why? Zoolooman 23:52, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
- Weapons2 I prefer Weapons 2. It looks better and doesn't have that taunt kill explanation that isn't necessary on the first one. I will die translating any of them, btw :D -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 23:55, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
- Weapons I prefer User:Zoolooman/Weapons because it has more info (pretty attributes) and doesn't look all that cluttered (with the exception of Demoman secondary). Tauntkills however are better on User:Zoolooman/Weapons2, because they use the same table style and more consistent columns compared to the rest of the page. So my vote would be User:Zoolooman/Weapons + Tauntkills from User:Zoolooman/Weapons2 — Wind 23:56, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
- Weapons2 I'm all for reducing the amount of duplicate information across the wiki. -- Pilk (talk) 23:59, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
- The only element I preferred of the first Weapons was the 'Notes' section. I think it would assist in the page's primary purpose, which is a comparison. Hard damage stats isn't something I believe most readers would be interested in immediately, and instead, the 'Notes' cell should mirror the Backpack loadout stats. The remainder of the first Weapons page I would prefer (including the taunt kills table, I don't think the template suits the rest of the page). seb26 [talk] 00:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
- Having backpack statistics present in the table is something that I think will help readers immensely in comparing weapons, which as I stated is the primary purpose (and not only just a listing of all weapons). I Support User:Zoolooman/Weapons2 with the addition of these stats in a new 'Notes' column. seb26 [talk] 00:07, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
- Weapons I like having the notes column since it is a fast way to compare weapon's attributes between classes. KillerKooK 00:24, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
- Weapons I really love Weapons2 but its lack of the freaking notes column (which is essential to compare stats/effects between different weapons - the main reason I, and certainly most people, read the page), I'm forced to go with Weapons1. If you add the notes column or strip it down to the bare stats à là backpack style I would vote for Weapons2. tl;dr version - Notes column != clutter. Stab ! 02:02, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
- Nobody reads the page for that, Stab. The current version of the page DOESN'T have that "feature," because nobody needs it when they're digging around a list of damage comparisons. Zoolooman 04:58, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
- Eh... it used to have in back in the tf2wiki.net days, which is probably where you adapted your Weapons1 page from...
- Also how can you declare nobody reads it for comparing backpack stats? Just because you "dig the list" just for damage comparisons, doesn't mean everyone "digs" it for the same reason; I'm not the only one who believes the article has much more potential than being just another "damage comparison list" as you put it, almost everyone who commented on this (Wind, seb26, KillerKooK and me) think keeping the notes column feature is a good idea, specially since your design facilitates class-weapon comparison. I don't get why you're so up in arms about it.
- One last thing, I didn't get why did you bother putting a vote up if you go and implement your weapons2 design just 5 hours after... Stab ! 20:08, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
- Calm down. People were updating the wiki with new weapons and I decided to save everyone a great deal of time by letting people add onto a class sorted list instead of a slot sorted one. Now, if you'll read very carefully, the version of Weapons I replaced DID NOT have attribute info, and thus nobody could've been using it to compare weapon attributes. This isn't a matter of choice; it would be literally impossible to do, as it didn't have that information whatsoever. Also, I didn't build anything off the TFwiki version. I pulled Zoolooman/Weapons from our class pages. Zoolooman 20:15, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
- Indeed, the original Weapons page did not have the backpack attributes in it, only damage numbers. By putting Weapons2 over it, they are now sorted by class; that's the only thing that Zoolooman has changed to the Weapons page so far, he hasn't removed anything from what was already there. The addition of backpack attributes, which I am also in support of, is yet another cool addition that I hope Zoolooman will do; but it is an addition, he didn't remove it. — Wind 20:20, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
- I'll be adding attributes over the weekend. Zoolooman 20:22, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
- Hey, I'm calm, It's hard to express emotions through text so I completely understand that the above text might sound cold or angry-toned, but I assure you that's not the case :) That said, back on subject, you had already said that the current article does not have attributes, but based on the feedback on this page I would say it would make a welcome [re]addition as it would not "clutter" the page and it would give the article much more potential, for me and I'm sure many more users. You can still use it to compare damage but you'd be able to compare stats as well. Stab ! 20:33, 18 December 2010 (UTC)EDIT: I'm 11 minutes late, the wiki is slow today. Stab ! 20:38, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
- Weapons I think it should be made to have the best of both worlds. I really like the more in-depth look at the damage values in Weapons2 but I also like the easy-to-read and user-friendly pros and cons attributes in the first Weapons template. Brah 03:58, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
- Weapons I personal like 1 because I think that the in-depth look at the damage values and attributes are really efficient and that the notes column are just well ...organized I guess. But if the notes section were to be added to the second weapons template, then I would vote for weapons 2. CardBoredBox 12:41, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Nasty vs. Fancy update
Due to the recent update releasing much of the custom skins from Nasty vs. Fancy should we make a page for it? or just link it to the original page of the "Update" page? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by CrazedPorcupine (talk) • (contribs) 05:46, 18 December 2010
I'd suggest just linking to the "Update" page since not all of the skins were made into legitimate items. That might set precedent for making pages for unofficial skins, which I believe might be confusing for new players. Larkke 14:32, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Collapsible table sliding animation
I've noticed there is a new collapsible table animation on most navboxes. An example of it:
|
I think it looks cool but I often find it to perform slowly and in general is quite annoying, especially on the smaller navboxes (like the Achievement one above). I've also find it chops off the edges of some tables and if the table stretches across the page then it seems to not show the 'hide' button at all. Could we possibly restore it back to the old way of just opening and closing? seb26 [talk] 23:13, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure the speed is configurable. Could you give an example of a chopped table? --CruelCow (talk) 01:29, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
- User:Seb26 and Crate#Series_.236_-_Festive_Winter_Crate (when closed). And even if it is configurable I still think it would look silly speeding open and closed. seb26 [talk] 02:05, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
- Crate#Series_.236_-_Festive_Winter_Crate looks normal to me, User:Seb26 doesn't. But I agree, the hide/show animation is sluggish (sometimes my browser even freezes or displays a blank page for a sec before rendering the sloppy animation) and it would be better if it was removed or optimized or something. Stab ! 02:10, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
- User:Seb26 and Crate#Series_.236_-_Festive_Winter_Crate (when closed). And even if it is configurable I still think it would look silly speeding open and closed. seb26 [talk] 02:05, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
Reverted. — Wind 08:28, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
VINTAGE BAN HAMMER
An item which was recently discover was the Vintage Ban hammer.
It is described: "level 9001 mallet of banishment"
Bans steam accounts of players killed
In a lighter color text it says that the item is not real and a joke
Profile link http://www.tf2items.com/profiles/76561197960287930 --QuincytheDestroyer 13:26, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
- It's a joke. See User talk:Nineaxis#Ban_Hammer. — NVis (talk) 13:35, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
Nav Boxes for all Previous Major Updates
I really like the update nav we have for new updates, but it only doesn't go back very far. Has there been any consideration to making navs for every major update (as in the updates listed as major updates on tf2.com)? I think for archival purposes, it would be a nice resource to know what maps were added with the Heavy update, for example. Balladofwindfishes 21:00, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
- It's not a bad idea. I support. -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 21:03, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support: Sounds like a great idea. – Smashman (talk) 21:09, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah that'd be cool, as long as someone is willing to do it. seb26 [talk] 22:12, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
- I took the liberty to create one to the Heavy Update (click dis), to test. However, when i tried to link "Videos" to the Meet the Team page, the template broke, so if someone knows how to fix it, feel free to edit the page -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 22:18, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
- Here: Template:HeavyUpdateNav I think it looks ok. If the idea gets accepted, i can do the others -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 23:14, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
- Update: Also did Template:PyroUpdateNav, Template:EngineerUpdateNav and Template:GoldrushUpdateNav. If an admin approves, i can start putting it on the respective pages.
- You forgot Coldfront for the Engy update Balladofwindfishes 14:39, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I likez. The only thing I worry about is the number of navs on some articles, but that's another issue. —Moussekateer·talk 16:17, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support Do it. And quit spamming this in the IRC please. -- OluapPlayer (t) 16:19, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- You forgot Coldfront for the Engy update Balladofwindfishes 14:39, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- Done. Also did Scout too. I'm going to try to do the rest latur. -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 16:56, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- I think everything that could be transformed into templates are done mates. Heavy, Pyro, Goldrush, War, Sniper vs Spy, Classless, Engineer. (Wintergreen did the classless one). -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 20:13, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- Awesome, by the way, the Rocket Jumper and Sticky Jumper are not in any template, even though both were added during major updates Balladofwindfishes 01:03, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- I think everything that could be transformed into templates are done mates. Heavy, Pyro, Goldrush, War, Sniper vs Spy, Classless, Engineer. (Wintergreen did the classless one). -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 20:13, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
'Sockets' coming to TF2?
As in items that augment weapons. Read the stuff here. Everyone's probably seen it, but I thought I'd bring it up anyway. Should we cover it? Valve - making TF2 more like an MMO everyday. – Smashman (talk) 15:23, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- Not sure. Valve have a history of adding attributes they don't use. There's a lot of attributes on this list that's been there for ages and never used. —Moussekateer·talk 15:25, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- True, but these definitely seem to have been added for a reason. Most of those unused attributes are general ideas they may have had. – Smashman (talk) 15:32, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- "'TF_SacredMedicine_Desc' 'While under the effects, damage done\nand damage taken will be mini-crits.\nYou will also move much faster.'" - Sounds like the Buffalo Steak Sandvich to me. -The Neotank ( | Talk) 15:35, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- That's probably the name of the original peyote cactus that the steak was originally going to be. Since it has the same effect as the steak, this makes it more likely Balladofwindfishes 15:38, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- Cool, I hadn't seen this. It's likely that it's just a bunch of stuff that Valve is testing out. I don't think there is a need to mention it here (beyond this talk page) until it is actually implemented, if that even ever happens. This wouldn't be the first set of strings that were in the file but not used. -- - (talk | contribs) -- 17:53, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
- That's probably the name of the original peyote cactus that the steak was originally going to be. Since it has the same effect as the steak, this makes it more likely Balladofwindfishes 15:38, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- "'TF_SacredMedicine_Desc' 'While under the effects, damage done\nand damage taken will be mini-crits.\nYou will also move much faster.'" - Sounds like the Buffalo Steak Sandvich to me. -The Neotank ( | Talk) 15:35, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
- True, but these definitely seem to have been added for a reason. Most of those unused attributes are general ideas they may have had. – Smashman (talk) 15:32, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
Class_nav Tranlation Switching
So, i made a test version of Scout_nav template with translation switching: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:DrAkcel/NavProto. This version only works properly with Russian and French language (But this can be sure fixed). So, anyone want a real working version of this? Just vote here (T | C) 15:47, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
Possible New Items
Hello, from playing sam and max, devil's playhouse.
I got a few ideas for a new weapon and a some misc, items that I can think could go well with Poker Night winning items, the weapon is a shotgun that the character 'Stinky' owns in Sam and Max 304:Beyond the alley of the dolls for the engineer and a three badges that appear in Sam and Max 303: They Stole Max's Brain!, they are the badges that Sam much collect to get close to Max's body in the game.
I dont know if they suggestion goes here or not, so please correct me if it doesn't belong here NMWalker1991 00:29, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
- We have no control over the game and as such suggesting stuff to us is useless. The Steam Forums are your best bet. – Smashman (talk) 00:33, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
- Normaly item suggestions don't go on the wiki, you can model them and suggest them to Valve or write an email to Valve to suggest the idea, but you could need TellTale's acknoledgement too. The best way is using the contribute site after modeling the items (Or write a thread on SPUF as Smashman suggested). Tturbo 00:35, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
Strategy pages based around combating classes?
I know we have the match-ups for each class, but that is more of a general overview than something in-depth. Just now, as we have strategy pages based around how to effectively play a class, couldn't we have pages based around how to effectively play against a class? It could even extend from general strategy to how to best counter or avoid specific weapons. Check my user page for an example of what I am hoping to accomplish.
What say ye? --Bri 00:53, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support - I don't have any objection against it; the only remark I have is that these pages, in order to stay of high quality, should be watched by a... watchful eye~ (you?). A good idea though :3 — Wind 21:38, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support - People are more obsess with how they play one class that they lack the true knowledge to combat other classes. A good guide for this will surely help a newbie out. (Also causes less ignorant for those: OMGZ DEMOSPAM ESH TOOZ OP) Wintergreen 04:21, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support - I support this style for newbies, makes perfect sense. —Moussekateer·talk 04:27, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support - as long as it doesn't end up as messy as the Community Strategy pages, because those are utterly horrible to read through. I suppose it's easier to watch it from the beginning than trying to combat a mess later on, though; so I'm with Wind. -- Netshroud (talk | contribs) 04:28, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support But only as long as the moderation is very strict. Zoolooman 05:14, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
- Assuming this gets accepted, should we extend the matchup pages or create an entirely new page dedicated to anti-classing? --Bri 14:25, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
- A new page might be more appropriate, as the match-up pages are quite long as is. Just for readability's sake. NihonTiger 18:17, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
- I have some comments about the standard. I was thinking, at the top of the page, there should be one domination line about the specific class. Whom would this quote be from? It would be from the class to the right of the anti-class on the front-page. The Engineer is quoted on the Anti Heavy page, the Medic is quoted on the Anti Engineer page, and so on. In addition to this, I was thinking we could get shots of all the classes in their humiliation poses to float to the right of their respective Anti Class Strategy page to spice things up a bit. --Bri 00:26, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Should have done this beforehand. Anyway: Team Fortress Wiki:Anti-Class Strategies --Bri 06:21, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
The demonstration videos...
I was wondering, seeing as we are doing the weapon demonstration videos, maybe we could also do some polycount pack demonstration videos, you know like showing off the items and showing how the item set bonus works. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ihasnotomato (talk) • (contribs) 11:55, 26 December 2010
Damage inlining
The definition for long short and medium range is being copied currently across 100 pages. This will be a maintainence nightmare if it isn't already, (pages are already inconsistent with this info:
- Move to damage page.
or
- Move to template, and place template on each page.
For sure we should not maintain this across several pages. UltimateTerabyte 20:16, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
- I vote keep it all on the damage page. I dont think people would be that interested in seeing it on every weapon page, and people who would want to see it can still easily find it on the damage page Natemckn 23:50, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
My new hatnav concept
I saw that the hatnav is getting a bit unruly, so I whipped up a concept redesign that involves collapsible categories, so that it wont get huge when there are more hats. I made it so that when placing the nav, you can specify a category to default to open by doing something like {{hatnav|scout}}, which would produce the following:
|
Notice how the scout category is already expanded. With one category being expanded it is a fair amount smaller than the current one, but when viewing at lower resolutions, mine becomes significantly smaller than the current one. So, yeah, opinions? comments? statements about how much I suck? Natemckn 23:50, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
- Would be nice if clicking on the orange bar expanded them. Maybe it's a usability thing, but on a 22" inscreen, noticing in tiny writing the show button on the far right took a few. Can you do this? UltimateTerabyte 23:53, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
- Good point. Unfortunately I am a newb and have no idea if this is possible, so if anyone else knows, please let me know. Natemckn 23:55, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I like this new nav. Only issues I have are simply what UltimateTerabyte has already mentioned and I don't really see the need in a separate section specifically for the Halloween hats, I would personally prefer it to be merged with the rest of the all hat section. Other then that I believe you have done a great job Scatman John (Talk | Contrib) 01:05, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- I agree with Scatman, a Halloween section is not needed. The Headsplitter drops like a normal hat, and the Cadaver's Cranium isn't even in that section (because it's a Heavy hat). Right now it's misleading about those two hats, implying the Headsplitter is something special, when it's just a normal hat. Balladofwindfishes 01:22, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I like this new nav. Only issues I have are simply what UltimateTerabyte has already mentioned and I don't really see the need in a separate section specifically for the Halloween hats, I would personally prefer it to be merged with the rest of the all hat section. Other then that I believe you have done a great job Scatman John (Talk | Contrib) 01:05, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
redirect pages for russian language
There's a little problem. Now if somebody wants to search for, for example, Black Box, and types it's name in russian, we will see a list of close articles and title "page ... does not exist". Acticle about it will be 4th or 5th in list, and names of articles in list are in english. I think we can make redirect-pages with russian names (http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Черный_ящик) so searching will be better. I dont know anything about this problem in other languages but think it is. And sorry for my english... Juffin 06:39, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, we currently use these for other languages. Feel free to make some for Russian articles, but remember to use the template
{{R lang}}
afterwards on the page, e.g.#REDIRECT [[Article]] {{R lang|ru}}
, as this helps to keep track of these redirects. seb26 [talk] 06:43, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, i'm starting. Juffin 08:46, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
Tabbed boxes
Do you prefer this:
Weapons | ||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
v • d • e | ||||||||||
Primary | Scattergun | Rocket Launcher | Flame Thrower | Grenade Launcher | Minigun | Shotgun | Syringe Gun | Sniper Rifle | — | |
Force-A-Nature Shortstop Soda Popper Baby Face's Blaster Back Scatter |
Direct Hit Black Box Rocket Jumper Liberty Launcher Cow Mangler 5000 Original Beggar's Bazooka Air Strike |
Backburner Degreaser Phlogistinator Rainblower Nostromo Napalmer Dragon's Fury |
Loch-n-Load Ali Baba's Wee Booties Bootlegger Loose Cannon B.A.S.E. Jumper Iron Bomber |
Natascha Iron Curtain Brass Beast Tomislav Huo-Long Heater |
Frontier Justice Widowmaker Pomson 6000 Rescue Ranger Panic Attack |
Blutsauger Crusader's Crossbow Overdose |
Huntsman Sydney Sleeper Bazaar Bargain Machina Hitman's Heatmaker AWPer Hand Fortified Compound Classic Shooting Star |
— | ||
Secondary | Pistol | Shotgun | Shotgun | Stickybomb Launcher | Shotgun | Pistol | Medi Gun | SMG | Revolver | |
Bonk! Atomic Punch Lugermorph Crit-a-Cola Mad Milk Winger Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol Flying Guillotine Mutated Milk C.A.P.P.E.R |
Buff Banner Gunboats Battalion's Backup Concheror Mantreads Reserve Shooter Righteous Bison B.A.S.E. Jumper Panic Attack |
Flare Gun Detonator Reserve Shooter Manmelter Scorch Shot Panic Attack Gas Passer Thermal Thruster |
Chargin' Targe Scottish Resistance Sticky Jumper Splendid Screen Tide Turner Quickiebomb Launcher |
Sandvich Dalokohs Bar Buffalo Steak Sandvich Fishcake Family Business Robo-Sandvich Panic Attack Second Banana |
Lugermorph Wrangler Short Circuit C.A.P.P.E.R Giger Counter |
Kritzkrieg Quick-Fix Vaccinator |
Jarate Razorback Darwin's Danger Shield Cozy Camper Cleaner's Carbine Self-Aware Beauty Mark |
Ambassador Big Kill L'Etranger Enforcer Diamondback | ||
Melee | Bat | Shovel | Fire Axe | Bottle | Fists | Wrench | Bonesaw | Kukri | Knife | |
Sandman Frying Pan Holy Mackerel Boston Basher Candy Cane Sun-on-a-Stick Fan O'War Three-Rune Blade Saxxy Atomizer Conscientious Objector Unarmed Combat Wrap Assassin Freedom Staff Bat Outta Hell Memory Maker Ham Shank Golden Frying Pan Necro Smasher Crossing Guard Batsaber Prinny Machete |
Equalizer Pain Train Frying Pan Half-Zatoichi Saxxy Disciplinary Action Market Gardener Conscientious Objector Escape Plan Freedom Staff Bat Outta Hell Memory Maker Ham Shank Golden Frying Pan Necro Smasher Crossing Guard Prinny Machete |
Axtinguisher Homewrecker Frying Pan Powerjack Back Scratcher Sharpened Volcano Fragment Maul Saxxy Postal Pummeler Conscientious Objector Third Degree Lollichop Neon Annihilator Freedom Staff Bat Outta Hell Memory Maker Ham Shank Golden Frying Pan Necro Smasher Crossing Guard Prinny Machete Hot Hand |
Eyelander Pain Train Scotsman's Skullcutter Frying Pan Horseless Headless Horsemann's Headtaker Claidheamh Mòr Ullapool Caber Half-Zatoichi Saxxy Persian Persuader Nessie's Nine Iron Conscientious Objector Scottish Handshake Freedom Staff Bat Outta Hell Memory Maker Ham Shank Golden Frying Pan Necro Smasher Crossing Guard Prinny Machete |
Killing Gloves of Boxing Frying Pan Gloves of Running Urgently Fists of Steel Warrior's Spirit Saxxy Eviction Notice Conscientious Objector Apoco-Fists Holiday Punch Freedom Staff Bat Outta Hell Memory Maker Ham Shank Golden Frying Pan Bread Bite Necro Smasher Crossing Guard Prinny Machete |
Golden Wrench Gunslinger Southern Hospitality Jag Saxxy Eureka Effect Golden Frying Pan Necro Smasher Prinny Machete |
Ubersaw Frying Pan Vita-Saw Amputator Saxxy Solemn Vow Conscientious Objector Freedom Staff Bat Outta Hell Memory Maker Ham Shank Golden Frying Pan Necro Smasher Crossing Guard Prinny Machete |
Tribalman's Shiv Bushwacka Frying Pan Saxxy Shahanshah Conscientious Objector Freedom Staff Bat Outta Hell Memory Maker Ham Shank Golden Frying Pan Necro Smasher Crossing Guard Prinny Machete |
Your Eternal Reward Conniver's Kunai Saxxy Big Earner Wanga Prick Sharp Dresser Spy-cicle Black Rose Golden Frying Pan Prinny Machete | ||
Primary PDA | — | — | — | — | — | Construction PDA | — | — | Disguise Kit | |
— | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | ||
Secondary PDA | — | — | — | — | — | Destruction PDA | — | — | Invis Watch | |
— | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | Cloak and Dagger Dead Ringer Enthusiast's Timepiece Quäckenbirdt | ||
Building | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | Sapper | |
— | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | Red-Tape Recorder Ap-Sap Snack Attack | ||
Taunt | Grand Slam | Grenade | Hadouken Armageddon Execution Gas Blast |
Barbarian Swing | High Noon | Arm Blender Guitar Smash |
Oktoberfest Uberslice Medicating Melody |
Arrow Stab | Fencing |
Or this (Imagine there was a class-specific weapon table instead of biographies)?
User:WindPower/VerticalTest
Or this (Imagine there was only weapons on that table)?
Weapons |
Primary: Scattergun • Force-A-Nature • Shortstop Secondary: Pistol • Lugermorph • Bonk! Atomic Punch • Crit-a-Cola • Mad Milk Melee: Bat • Sandman • Holy Mackerel • Candy Cane • Boston Basher Taunt: Home Run |
Abilities | |
Hats/Misc |
Original: Batter's Helmet Classless: Bonk Helm • Ye Olde Baker Boy • Baseball Bill's Sports Shine Community: Troublemaker's Tossle Cap • Whoopee Cap Mann-Conomy: Milkman • Bombing Run Australian Christmas: Flipped Trilby Promotional: N/A Misc: N/A" |
Strategy | |
Character | |
Achievements | |
Other |
Weapons |
Primary: Rocket Launcher • Direct Hit • Black Box • Rocket Jumper Secondary: Shotgun • Buff Banner • Gunboats • Battalion's Backup Melee: Shovel • Equalizer • Pain Train • Frying Pan Taunt: Kamikaze |
Abilities | |
Hats/Misc |
Original: Soldier's Stash Classless: Stainless Pot • Tyrant's Helm Community: Killer's Kabuto • Sergeant's Drill Hat Mann-Conomy: Grenadier's Softcap • Chieftain's Challenge • Dr's Dapper Topper • Stout Shako Australian Christmas: Exquisite Rack • Defiant Spartan Promotional: Lumbricus Lid Misc: Gentle Manne's Service Medal |
Strategy | |
Character | |
Achievements | |
Other |
Weapons |
Primary: Flamethrower • Backburner • Degreaser Secondary: Shotgun • Flare Gun Melee: Fire Axe • Axtinguisher • Homewrecker • Powerjack • Back Scratcher Taunt: Hadouken |
Abilities | |
Hats/Misc |
Original: Pyro's Beanie Classless: Brigade Helm • Respectless Rubber Glove Community: Triboniophorus Tyrannus • Vintage Merryweather Mann-Conomy: Attendant • Handyman's Handle • Napper's Respite • Old Guadalajara Promotional: Foster's Facade Australian Christmas: Madame Dixie • Pyromancer's Mask • Prancer's Pride Misc: Whiskered Gentleman • Stockbroker's Scarf |
Strategy | |
Character | |
Achievements | |
Other |
Weapons |
Primary: Grenade Launcher • Loch-n-Load Secondary: Stickybomb Launcher • Chargin' Targe • Scottish Resistance • Sticky Jumper Melee: Bottle • Eyelander • Pain Train • Scotsman's Skullcutter • Frying Pan • Horseless Headless Horsemann's Headtaker • Ullapool Caber • Claidheamh Mòr Taunt: Decapitation |
Abilities | |
Hats/Misc |
Original: Demoman's Fro Classless: Glengarry Bonnet • Scotsman's Stove Pipe Community: Hustler's Hallmark • Tippler's Tricorne Mann-Conomy: Carouser's Capotain • Rimmed Raincatcher • Sober Stuntman Australian Christmas: Scotch Bonnet • Prince Tavish's Crown Promotional: N/A Misc: Dangeresque, Too? |
Strategy | |
Character | |
Achievements | |
Other |
Animations can be disabled as shown here.
— Wind 08:27, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support 3 --Bri 08:34, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I like 3 as well. Scatman John (Talk | Contrib) 08:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I must say 3 is best, 2 is a very very close second though. so elegant they both are. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by K-Mac (talk) • (contribs)
- Support It's about time someone thinks about changing these old ugly nav. I prefer the second one, though the third is great too. The second has the advantage that we could have one nav for everything just need to click on the class symbol to have you information, you'll need one for class, on for weapons, one for hats and that's make 3 templates instead of 3x9=27... Great job here Wind. Tturbo 09:02, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose It looks nice but it is unclear what issues this actually addresses. Collapsible navs are what were implemented to reduce the presence of templates on a page. Adding flashy transition effects is nice but in the end this is not what we are meant to be serving to readers. -- Pilk (talk) 09:12, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support It's... will [[3]] marry me?. -RJs 09:23, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Neutral While it's definitely a cool concept, it remains to see how useful it will actually be. -- Netshroud (talk | contribs) 09:37, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Neutral: It actually appears to bug out for me. D: – Smashman (talk) 09:53, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Ctrl+F5 a few times~ — Wind 09:54, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Awesome! I really like the idea of using that last one everywhere. It essentially combines a whole ton of navs into one simple box. The way I see it, if you're looking for a bunch of information on the Scout, it's easier to have it all there. That way you can jump from hats to weapons to strategy without needing to search or hunt down the pages. All it needs is to show the proper tab by default and I think it will really be a boon to the way users read the Wiki.
- I also have an idea of what to do with the class bio nav. Tweak it a little bit so that the tabs are on top and the whole thing is wider, then have each page link to the class page in some way. Like that it could replace the static class images on the front page. -- - (talk | contribs) -- 14:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Ok, I made the super-nav have the ability to start on a different tab (i think). It accepts an input like {{supernav|pyro}}, which would make it start on the pyro tab (demonstrated above). but for whatever reason the title bar still says "scout". Anyone know why this is? Natemckn 16:23, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- 3: Also, Ability: Bleeding made me laugh. --CruelCow (talk) 17:13, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- 2 3 is a very close 2nd place though. Stab ! 19:00, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support This looks sexy as hell. -- OluapPlayer (t) 19:09, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose for now. Trying this page and a few of Wind's test pages in Firefox and IE8 breaks all boxes. I don't believe the issue is the lack of CTRL + F5 because I've cleared out my cache, cookies, everything and it still breaks (JS is on too). In any event, you cannot expect every reader to CTRL + F5, seriously. Until this can be tested and perfected (or at the least, a working alternative can be provided) on all browsers (including the Steam web browser), operating systems and configurations, I'm opposed to it being used anywhere extensively. On the subject, I'd like to see animations removed from standard navboxes – they are too slow, clunky and the bottom border of the closed box disappears. It's frustrating to use them. seb26 [talk] 21:23, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Comment want to put this out there:
- Works on IE8 (and on IE7, but I don't have it) (Rounded corners don't work on IE7 or IE8 though, but that's a minor annoyance)
- Works on Steam browser
- Works on Chrome, Firefox, probably Opera
- Requires cache clearing because it has new JavaScript and CSS. Obviously we can't expect readers to clear their cache every time, but cache clearing happens automatically over time, which is why I moved the code to the Common.js/Common.css right now; this way, caches will have picked it up by the time this discussion ends, so ctrl+F5'ing will not be required at this point anymore.
- Animations can be disabled; they can also be disabled per-browser in case some browsers don't handle it (I've found all browsers to display them in the expected 250ms duration except Internet Explorer which took about 500ms, so they can be disabled in IE only). Animations aren't as bad as they seem; when short like this (who can click and start reading instantaneously 250ms after clicking?), they don't reduce usability but may actually improve it by naturally pointing the eye at the interesting (changing) region of the screen.
- This vote (at least the vote between choices 2 and 3) is not about the box content, but about the tab style (icon only, or icon with label). The third option was created by Natemckn, but I didn't give credit because the point here is about the style, not the content (yet)
- — Wind 22:21, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
- Tried this out again in both browsers and found it had fixed itself somewhat. The code should stay for a while until it safely settles into everyone's cache (I know nothing?). The only issue I encountered was the animations in IE. They are visibly slower as you say, but I'm thinking we turn them off by default for IE, as they aren't pleasant. Nevertheless, when all issues are ironed out I'll be in Support of this. seb26 [talk] 04:26, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- Animations are now always disabled in IE (except IE9 in which they behave normally) — Wind 07:43, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- Tried this out again in both browsers and found it had fixed itself somewhat. The code should stay for a while until it safely settles into everyone's cache (I know nothing?). The only issue I encountered was the animations in IE. They are visibly slower as you say, but I'm thinking we turn them off by default for IE, as they aren't pleasant. Nevertheless, when all issues are ironed out I'll be in Support of this. seb26 [talk] 04:26, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I quite like number 3, probably because I'm a sucker for fancy looking stuff. Works real good for me :D —Moussekateer·talk 01:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- Number 3: It's visually appealing, convenient, and encourages exploration of the wiki. As long as the issue seb mentioned is/gets taken care of, I don't see why not. -The Neotank ( | Talk) 04:06, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- Comment A few things (about #3):
- I'd vertical align the "Weapons" "Hats" etc headings to the top. When they get too tall it looks a tad confusing in the middle without a delimiter.
- This does not work in all my browsers and some older version test browsers, even after clearing the cache. A number of users on the IRC channel reported the same issue.
- While it is pretty and all-inclusive, where will this go? Putting this at the bottom/top of every article seems like a bit of overkill. The purpose of navigation templates is to have separate ones we can stack as needed. If there were a way to dynamically load them that'd be better.
- Putting all that content in one place just means the user will need to load that much more stuff for the initial page load even if they only look at one page. Having 100 thumbnails load on first pageview is not practical, the wiki gets enough traffic spikes as it is.
- One of my bigger issues with it is that it bottlenecks the weapon lookup process. With the existing weapon template, it's 2 dimensional: you can quickly search by class or by slot. Here, you're forced to look them up by class.
- Just my several cents. It looks beautiful, to be sure, but I just think it needs a bit more of a clear purpose. MK 08:05, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- 3: The third option is awesome :) --Parseus (talk) 08:09, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- Neutral: I stand neutral for the time being, sure it does look great and sure it is quite easy to navigate, but for now, there is no purpose for this colossal NAV. Wintergreen 00:44, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- 3: Numbah 3 is awesome! -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 16:59, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- I have to go for the 3rd option. Real alien 20:58, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- 3 My eyes are bleeding with all the awesome-ness. =D – Epic Eric (T | C) 19:22, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
- I have a pretty slow connection, and all those small images in #3 load really slowly. They don't seem needed, and kins of crowd the template Balladofwindfishes 19:32, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
- 3 Number three looks just plain AWESOME :D. Very well organized. CardBoredBox 12:54, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
TF2 on PS3, dead
Apparently EA just shut the servers down with no warning, so nobody can play at all. Should we note this and cull all PS3 mentions? – Smashman (talk) 15:57, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- Is there any sort of announcement anywhere? If so, I think we should mention it in the current events section of the main page and start removing the relevant info throughout the wiki. 'Tis a sad day Natemckn 16:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- No reason to do anything yet. I'm yet to find a verified source for this information. -- Pilk (talk) 16:05, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- I think that's the point. EA have said nothing. I read it on Twitter. here's one. Although then again it does seem to be the only one. I may be jumping the gun. Can someone confirm? – Smashman (talk) 18:47, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- Nevermind, looks like I was jumping the gun and that guy on Twitter was just whining. The servers were down for the day. Cancel this all. – Smashman (talk) 18:48, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- Even though having said that, Category:PlayStation 3 wouldn't have much to delete anyway. --CruelCow (talk) 21:40, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
- No reason to do anything yet. I'm yet to find a verified source for this information. -- Pilk (talk) 16:05, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
'Update History' vs. 'Previous Changes'
Which is better? I'm more in favour of 'Previous Changes' because it sounds a little better and is what's used on most pages. seb26 [talk] 01:28, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- The term "Previous Change" makes absolutely no sense since the reader is viewing the article which is the "Current Change" version and yet the "Current Change" version is listed as part of the list of "Previous Changes".
- "Update History" would be the proper term to use, especially since that is the de facto term in the software world. Valve uses the term "Product Update" on all changes/patches. The only reason "Previous Changes" is used on all pages is because the editor who originally put those in the articles used that awkward term. Fixing pages to reflect better term now. -Object404 01:41, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- I'm split on this. I think both terms make sense but there's not that much difference. We already use 'Previous changes' on pretty much every article, in all languages, so it'll be a ton of work for a minor change. —Moussekateer·talk 01:54, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- Should the Australian Christmas items even have these subsections? Most of the rest of the articles don't. These notes were only placed in the Au Xmas articles to make viewers more prominently informed that the Australian Christmas items were now dropping & craftable -- that there was no need for players to panic, hoard Festive crates and buy Festive keys like crazy as they'd still be available after Australian Christmas. Personally I think it'd be interesting to see the update history of TF2 items, but maybe they should have their own pages, just like the separate "gameplay tips/tactics" articles for each of the weapons/items to keep the main articles looking more clean; it could look unwieldy if the change list grows for each item.
- I'm split on this. I think both terms make sense but there's not that much difference. We already use 'Previous changes' on pretty much every article, in all languages, so it'll be a ton of work for a minor change. —Moussekateer·talk 01:54, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- If we're going to be putting these subsections at all in the rest of the other articles, we might as well start with the proper term which is "Update History". It's not a "minor change" as "Previous Changes" looks extremely awkward. The main article the reader is viewing contains the latest changes. To list the latest change as part of "previous changes" is wrong from both a grammatical and a software standards perspective. -Object404 02:13, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- I like "Update History" more. Couldn't we just rig a bot to look for the string and change it, so we don't have to go through tons of pages and manually change them all? Balladofwindfishes 02:16, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- No biggie. I'd be happy to go through all the pages and manually fix them all in my spare time after work. Most of them need fixing anyway as it'd be more proper to list latest changes on top and oldest at the bottom in keeping with the rest of the internet and the software world. It's really aggravating my OCD :P -Object404 03:10, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- NeutralI like both, depending on what will be chosen I'll conform, "Previous Changes" is good though, and it means no need of changing all the wiki. Tturbo 06:09, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- No biggie. I'd be happy to go through all the pages and manually fix them all in my spare time after work. Most of them need fixing anyway as it'd be more proper to list latest changes on top and oldest at the bottom in keeping with the rest of the internet and the software world. It's really aggravating my OCD :P -Object404 03:10, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- I like "Update History" more. Couldn't we just rig a bot to look for the string and change it, so we don't have to go through tons of pages and manually change them all? Balladofwindfishes 02:16, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- If we're going to be putting these subsections at all in the rest of the other articles, we might as well start with the proper term which is "Update History". It's not a "minor change" as "Previous Changes" looks extremely awkward. The main article the reader is viewing contains the latest changes. To list the latest change as part of "previous changes" is wrong from both a grammatical and a software standards perspective. -Object404 02:13, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- Update history Makes more sense to me Stab ! 16:12, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- Previous Changes makes perfect sense. It's a change that occurred previous to the current version. Even a change that changed the weapon from an old version to the current version is a previous change. Geddit? – Smashman (talk) 16:48, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- I could see "Previous Changes" working better even though the most recent change would be listed there. A change is the act of moving from one state to another, yes? The current state of something had to have gotten that way by changing from a previous state. So the most recent change would still be a "Previous Change". Larkke 16:52, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- Update history No, Smashman, Larrke. That is the "latest change", not a "previous change". The latest change by definition cannot be a previous change because the term previous requires something subsequent. Since there are no changes after the latest change, the latest change cannot fall under "previous change". Please do not confuse the terms Previous and Change with each other. Summary: A Latest Change CANNOT fall under Previous Change by definition. If we're going to use the term "Previous Change", the last change done has to be separated from it. To clarify things, the last change applied in an update is current and cannot fall under previous. Makes sense? -Object404 04:18, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
- Previous Changes makes perfect sense. It's a change that occurred previous to the current version. Even a change that changed the weapon from an old version to the current version is a previous change. Geddit? – Smashman (talk) 16:48, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- Shall we wrap this up guys? It seems the only argument against switching to "Update History" is the amount of work it would take, and votes are either neutral or in favor of switching. Since I'm okay with manually going through the pages myself, I'll start renaming the sections around late next week if there are no more objections? Happy New Year all! -Object404 02:55, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
- Hi guys. It just takes a few seconds to make the fix to "Update History" when I'm reading a page. Since there aren't really any complaints anymore, I'll just make the fixes when I happen to be on pages that haven't been updated yet. Cheerios -Object404 16:45, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
Should weapons unlocked by achievements have their required number on their individual page?
At the moment, each individual weapon page lists details about the weapons, but not how many achievements it takes to unlock them. Is it worth adding in, as at the moment you can only find out how many achievements are needed to unlock a weapon by looking at the individual class achievement pages.
So say, on the Sandmans individual page, we state that it can be unlocked by completing 16 Scout achievements, rather than having to go to the Scouts achievement list page and looking at the milestones. (Sorry about not signing. Havn't got the hang of this yet :P) --No-oneSpecial 14:43, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support The fact that a weapon will be unlocked after x number of achievements should be on the weapon page, imho. Natemckn 14:32, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support: Not a bad idea, and one we could likely put on the infobox. Please remember to sign your comments on talk pages with
~~~~
. – Smashman (talk) 14:38, 30 December 2010 (UTC) - Comment: I was thinking it'd be more appropriate if the associated milestone is mentioned in the "relative achievements" section.--Kid Of The Century 14:44, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- Comment: I like this. Surprised we don't already have this. – Smashman (talk) 16:50, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- This Scout_achievements#Milestones --CruelCow (talk) 02:14, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
- Comment: I think he was talking about this section on a weapons individual page Sandman#Related_Achievements -- No-one Special (talk | contribs) 02:45, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I can see how this would be useful for newer players. How about making the infobox say "Unlock (16)"? — NVis (talk) 14:46, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- Why didn't we do this from the start? I fully support Balladofwindfishes 02:08, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
- Agree: Why do we not have this already? -- Netshroud (talk | contribs) 02:24, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support Very useful info to have on individual weapon pages. -Object404 04:19, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
- Support I think that is a good idea. It will definitely be very helpfull for all the newcomers. -- Pumpkin in a cap (talk | contribs) 18:30, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
- Support: Sounds like a good idea. Surprised this hasn't been done yet. :) NihonTiger 02:59, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
Pages for Updates before the Engineer Update
I think we should create pages for the updates before the Engineer Update. We have created nav boxes for them and we should have pages too like the Engie Update, Mann-Conomy Updaate, Scream Fortress and Australian Christmas Updates. Mardamien24 17:10, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
- We already have them. o-o -- Swordz (talk | contribs) 17:14, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
- I think he/she means the difference between A Heavy Update and the Engineer Update. The Engineer update lists the pre-update information, on top of some back stories and preview images. The article isn't just patch notes, either, it explains the new additions and weapons. Balladofwindfishes 13:49, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
- Support Would suit the classiness of the rest of the wiki :) Be glad to help out on this if it falls through -- No-oneSpecial (talk | contribs) 16:33, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
- Support It will definitely make the Patches' Major updates section much less messy regarding links. – Epic Eric (T | C) 18:14, 1 January 2011 (UTC)