Talk:Strange Part

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Revision as of 16:40, 24 July 2012 by Balladofwindfishes (talk | contribs) (REMOVE BUGS)

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Begin

Added basics, don't know what to do with availability, will be uploading all the bp icons for the different counters soon, thanks. - Devozade 18:02, 22 March 2012 (PDT)

Anyone know how you get these? If so, we need to add that. --Nmolby 18:09, 22 March 2012 (PDT)

Are you sure that it is found in crates 41 and 42? --Nmolby 18:21, 22 March 2012 (PDT)

Through discussions I have seen so far on the schema side of things. - Devozade 18:22, 22 March 2012 (PDT)
Ok, its better than unknown. --Nmolby 18:22, 22 March 2012 (PDT)

Anyone know if you can take a counter and put it on another item if it has already been used? Also, when you trade it, if it has to stay with the item, does the extra counter go to?? --Nmolby 18:27, 22 March 2012 (PDT)

Another note, this item has no level, it doesn't even have the line in the item panel, not sure how to leave that line blank in the backpack panel template. - Devozade 07:10, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

It they are all uncrated, then why don't we just say the only way to get them is from uncrating? --Nmolby 14:08, 24 March 2012 (PDT)

Origins

Hmm, this is very similar to the kill counter that was shown in Meet the Engineer. However, this is probably speculation. Upgrade 18:29, 22 March 2012 (PDT)

It does look very similar and i think they based this on it. --Nmolby 18:32, 22 March 2012 (PDT)

Use

Got a "heavies Killed" strange part, haven't actually used it but found out that a strange weapon can only have three parts added, meaning a weapon with two counters already, like a Strange Jag, can potentially have five counters total.Alioramus 01:13, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

Gib counter

Does it go up if the dead player has a Bombinomicon in his loadout? Pwnator 01:42, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

Main image

Why was the main icon changed to headshots? I kept it as the heavies killed one because that's the one used for Strange Part in the catalogue. - Devozade 03:37, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

Permitted weapons section

I added a table with the permitted combinations. Right now this is based on guesswork and common sense, so it needs to be verified and updated.

Some things I'm not sure about:

  • Can the `Buildings destroyed' be added to an Electro Sapper (since this already counts destroyed buildings)?
  • Can a Wrench have a Gibs counter (a level three Sentry can Gib, but a wrench by itself can't)? Same for the other wrenches, obviously. On the whole, the Gib counter is the one that needs the most testing, I think. For instance: Any Eyelander kill is a gib kill, so the gib counter would simply match the `normal' counter. Right now, I've just taken the list from the Gibs page. (For the gibbing taunt kills, I've added the required weapons, such as the equalizer and gunslinger)
  • I added the flamethrowers to the Headshot posibilities, as you can headshot with reflected huntsman arrows. These combos need to be verified though.
  • Do the Mantreads cause damage to buildings the player lands on? Can't find this on the wiki. For now I've assumed they don't. (and thus can't have a buildings destroyed counter)
  • I've assumed that the medigun assist counters are not applicable to these counters.

Also, right now, this is a long table, It might be an idea to change it to a matrix, with the Strange Parts on top and the complete list of strange weapons on the left, and checkmarks indicating the possible combinations. However, if Valve adds more parts, this may become unwieldy (I expect at least 8 more, personally) Any thoughts on this?

Regards, --Itsacon 03:45, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

The sniper can have the headshot counter added to it. I just tried it in-game and I can add it. I would edit the table but I'm an idiot and don't want to break it Proof: [1] Note: the huntsman in the screenshot isn't strange Alfie 16:55, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Extracted the data from the schema? There's some oddities with what counter can be used with what, as expected. And as some tables on the wiki are much wider, perhaps make there be 2 columns of attributes. - Devozade 04:00, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
No, I didn't extract the data (no idea how I'd do that, frankly, feel free to enlighten me!). This is just common sense (headshot counter only on weapons that can headshot, kill counters only on weapons that can kill, etc). Just thought that this was the kind of info I'd look for in the wiki, so thought I'd give is a start. --Itsacon 04:06, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Is this table really needed? The combinations that are obvious (e.g., Headshots + Sapper) are... just obvious. The combinations that are not, should be checked first, or at least somehow marked in the table. And btw, I also suggest to make this table a multilanguage template, as it should be up to date in all language pages. — Login Soldier.pngStormbird talk 04:09, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
It might be common sense, but as far as I understood it, some weapons were oddly tagged/untagged with certain counters that didn't make sense. Also there are a lot of common sense tidbits of info already present on the wiki, still getting people asking what can be used with what. Also [2] you'd be looking at "tags" for each weapon in the early sections of that page. As far as I understand it the tags are above the weapon. There are a few blanket tages, like I assume can deal damage allows airborne, heavies and buildings. Not all the headshotting sniper rifles have the headshot tag yet. But haven't trawled through it all to 100% make sure yet. - Devozade
Ok thanks, I went through the schemas a bit, and it's much clearer now. Looks like four attributes were added: `can_deal_damage', `can_headshot', `can_reflect_projectiles' and `can_deal_gib_damage'. The Strange Parts check on one of those. However, it looks like some things are not set, and some `impossible' combinations are possible. Examples:
  • Not every sniper rifle is set yet for headshots (Currently only the Huntsman, Ambassador and Machina)
  • So headshots with reflections can't be counted.
  • Heavy, building and airborne kills all use `can_deal_damage', so to answer my own questions:
  • The Mantreads `can_deal_damage', so can count airborne kills, even though I doubt this is technically possible in the game.
  • The Sapper can't, so can't count destroyed buildings twice.
  • None of the festive weapons currently have the flags, so none of the Parts can be used on them
Also interesting: the only weapons currently able to gib are the rocket, grenade and sticky launchers, the Ullapool Caber and the Apoco-Fists (even though the latter is not yet available as strange)
I've updated the list with these changes. --Itsacon 05:06, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Just one more note, festive stranges take the attributes from the base items, because I can apply my airborne kills part to all my festive stranges except the medigun, as you would expect. Don't think they have specific entires for the festives. - Devozade 06:06, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Thanks for the info. I've updated the table. --Itsacon 06:29, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

Added a table like paint cans for these because I feel like a lot more will be on the way soon, just wondering if the part table should be made shorter and/or combinted with the usage restrictions table. - Devozade 07:01, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

I think combining the two tables into something like the tables on the Tools page would be best. Icon + name first, usage permissions/restrictions second and then availability. --Itsacon 07:36, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Don't really think it would ever become available for purchase or drop. Everything strange-related seems to be related to crates only. — Login Soldier.pngStormbird talk 07:50, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Possibly, but you still need a way on the page to show which crates each specific part is in. - Devozade 07:58, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

The Sandman hasn't been added to the 'Can Reflect Projectiles' and the' Can Deal Posthumous Damage' sections. I'm not sure about the first, since iirc the Sandman can only reflect balls, but the Wrap Assassin (and other projectile weapons) are in the second section while the Sandman isn't.

Also, should the Manmelter be added to the 'Can Extinguish' section? I know there is no strange for it yet, but still..

YPchicken 04:20, 29 April 2012 (PDT)

Weapons should not be added to the table as everything there has been taken directly from the item schema. The item schema determines which parts can be used with what, not the item's actual technical abilities. So the Sandman cannot use reflects and Mannmelter cannot be used with the extingish part even if there was a strange right now. - Devozade 04:47, 29 April 2012 (PDT)

Bugs

Has anyone tested if it is true that the Headshot counter can't be applied to a Sniper Rifle or Bazaar Bargain? If it's true, should we add a `bugs' section to this page? --Itsacon 08:17, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

Reflect counter

I added this to my degreaser

Counts:

  • rockets
  • flares
  • cow mangler shot
  • balls

Does not count:

  • stickybombs
  • grenades
  • jars
  • sentry gun rockets

Alioramus 22:24, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

This kind of info is good, should probably add an extra info column in the table for this data or add a notes section to the page, like with the strange page. - Devozade
Does anyone else think adding a page per strange part is a good idea? Given that we're likley to see more and each will have unique mechanics?Alioramus 17:12, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Definitely. It's a good idea to get this kind of thing sorted out now, before everything's cluttered together on one page. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 17:14, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Not unless we start to get complex counters, otherwise it's just all watered down information which would be much better in one strong article covering it all. - Devozade 17:16, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Well, we should probably break this article down into sections, or improve the table. I'm think another column with "will add to counter" or something like that? Alioramus 17:19, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Scrutanized my results, I think it's only projectiles that have already bounced that don't count. I think we can assume all projectiles that can be reflected will count. Alioramus 18:51, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
More testing! Jarate, stock grenades, and sticky bombs do not increase the counter. Cow mangler shots, wrap assassain and huntsman arrows all do. Alioramus 21:44, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Neither do any other stickies. Alioramus 21:49, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Mad Milk, neither. I was also able to verify that reflected reflected flares count, so I'm assuming all others do. Alioramus 22:13, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
And neither do Sentry gun rockets, suprisingly. Alioramus 22:23, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

Buildings Destroyed

The table says that Sappers don't count Buildings destroyed. Why is that? Is it a bug, or has anyone confirmed this? GianAwesome 17:48, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

It seems like they would count, the game treats them like buildings for achievements. Where did we find that they don't? Balladofwindfishes 17:49, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
It says that the Strange Part that counts Buildings Destroyed can't be added to it, which is because it already counts Buildings Destroyed. It would be the same as if they added an Assist Part which wouldn't be attachable to a Medi Gun. Blazios 18:15, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Sappers are simply not tagged as items that can_deal_damage. If it was, you would also be able to put on the Heavies Killed part as well as the other two generic kill-related ones as it stands now. On a very related note: since Sappers are sort of building themselves, I wonder if a Wrench with the Buildings Destroyed part would count destroying Sappers. — C2Talon (c/t) 18:39, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Oh, I read this backwards, I thought it was if sappers count towards the building destroyed counter, if it's used on a weapon that can destroy sappers (Engy melee or Homewrecker). Balladofwindfishes 18:42, 23 March 2012 (PDT)
Now that you mention it, it makes sense. Why have 2 counters for the same thing? Problem solved then, thanks everyone ^^ GianAwesome 19:42, 23 March 2012 (PDT)

If you COULD add it, yous should sap a building, THEN add the counter, so it would be one off, and confuse everyone! Zews 10:27, 14 April 2012 (PDT)

Naming convention

So we have a page named "Strange Parts" that contains a section called "Parts" that has a table with a column named "Strange Parts" that showcase "Strange Parts". Methinks it's a little redundant. Upgrade 02:03, 24 March 2012 (PDT)

Parts limit...

Once a Strange has three strange parts, can you add one more at the loss of another? Or can you/do you have to get rid of all three? I haven't checked if it gives you the option to "restore" weapons with strange parts. TinyPenguininja 14:43, 24 March 2012 (PDT)

Level

The wiki shows this as Level 1 - 100 but the strange part does not have a level assigned! Can someone confirm / change this on the wiki? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jamesingham (talk) • (contribs) 18:12, 25 March 2012

Sappers As Buildings?

If you add destroyed buildings part to a wrench or the homewrecker, does the building tracker increase when destroying a sapper? Given that for achievements they're treated similarly, it seems like this would be the case. Balladofwindfishes 11:16, 25 March 2012 (PDT)

I can buy a strange wrench and test it. For science. Should I? rZ 11:48, 25 March 2012 (PDT)
Well we won't for the homewrecker until they come out with a strange variant, plus I'd be suprised if that wasn't the default tracker on it by which it levels up. As for the wrench, may as well try since the game code has never treated sappers as much different than buildings before. --Piemanmoo 12:34, 25 March 2012 (PDT)
Whoa, I was positive there was a strange homewrecker... :o Balladofwindfishes 15:39, 25 March 2012 (PDT)
Nope, there isn't a strange homewrecker right now. /me is crossing his fingers for one soon Calq 15:48, 25 March 2012 (PDT)
Sappers do not count as buildings for the Strange Part: Buildings Destroyed.Mantid 16:52, 5 April 2012 (PDT)

Improving the restrictions table

Should the parts remain in "release" order in the table or reduced so that they may share rows of applicable weapons and availability to reduce wasted duplicate data? Also should templates be made for weapon lists into a "cannot deal damage", "can headshot", "can gib" and "can headshot" to make the table much easier to add to in future? Because I can defintely see the can deal damage attribute being used again for a lot more new potential future parts. - Devozade 03:57, 27 March 2012 (PDT)

It would probably be better to list them into the associated labels, then list the parts that apply to the labels. Considering there is a counter for just Heavies, the redundancy for the "can damage" counters is going to be staggering if and when the other 8 classes are added, let alone any other counters they add down the road. — C2Talon (c/t) 13:50, 29 March 2012 (PDT)

Gibs on flamethrowers?

Just checking to see if anyone knew whether or not you can place the Gib Kills part on flamethrowers. rZ 09:56, 28 March 2012 (PDT)

You cannot. The Bugs sections reflects this. SS2R 15:47, 28 March 2012 (PDT)
I doubt it is a bug. It is an oversight at most (just look at the lack of headshot tags when this first came out) and a technical impossibility at worst (do reflect kills even count as kills for the flamethrowers yet? if not, then gibs and headshots are even less likely able to be counted), or possibly just a conscience decision on Valve's part. A bug would be if the schema labeled the flamethrowers as able to gib or headshot, but you could not apply the counters associated with them. — C2Talon (c/t) 13:50, 29 March 2012 (PDT)

Gallery Image---revealing a bug?

The prompt image in the gallery shows the strange weapon to be vintage because of the blue border. Is this normal or is this a bug? I haven't really given it much thought until now.Reverend 15:43, 28 March 2012 (PDT)

Addendum: Come to think of it, the image makes the Strange Part look like an item with genuine quality as well.Reverend 15:44, 28 March 2012 (PDT)

This happens with all tools, the tool has green text and the item, blue text, in all these prompts when using a tool. - Devozade 15:46, 28 March 2012 (PDT)

Thanks for the clarification.Reverend 15:48, 28 March 2012 (PDT)

strange gib counter on equaliser?

as the equaliser gibs players within radius when its taunt is used, would a gib counter be able to apply to a strange equaliser to count the kills it makes when it taunts? James2777787 09:00, 5 April 2012 (PDT)

the equalizer is not exactly a explosive weapon, Its more of a melee weapon. Taunt kills shouldn't be included in strange parts because a bunch of weapons could probably fall under every category somehow. TubbyMonster 17:25, 30 April 2012 (PDT)

New Counter: Ubers Dropped

I already had plans to name my s. sniper rifle "The Uber Dropper" (I think you dropped something.). I drop on average 5 ubers a day, so I thought it would be a good name. Now that there are counters, I want to be able to count all of the ubers I drop! (Just to piss of the medics that drop them, or scare them into playing spy) Anyone else think that this would be a good counter? (Also, jokingly) I would expect that one could add this to a medi-gun, and count how many ubers you drop.... just to piss off you team.... or something... funny? Zews 10:06, 14 April 2012 (PDT)

"Redundancy" of Tags on non strange weapons

I have 2 issues I want to put up for input. The update has added these tags primarily used for strange part usage to both weapons that are not strange yet and a lot of the promo weapons. -Should data for non strange weapons be put in the table yet? Because it's potentially confusing. (And what about the promos?) -Should the template be renamed to something less strange part named just in case these tags are used elsewhere in a future update because these changes are a little "fishy". - Devozade 14:26, 27 April 2012 (PDT)

Additional info on template:strange part restrictions?

I made an example for the first one, i think this would actually be of more use.

Strange variant

TheDoctor 04:18, 28 April 2012 (PDT)

I see no reason why not to do it. Adds useful information without clutter. - Devozade 04:24, 28 April 2012 (PDT)

Enemies Gibbed

Don't know why it's taken me so long to notice, but it should be "Strange Part: Gib Kills". I understand where I should be looking for the proper name of a part now, so it should not happen again. But the text strings and icons need moving and renaming. - Devozade 04:56, 28 April 2012 (PDT)

Can be Equipped by Soldier or Demo

This tag is in the Strange parts tags template, but has yet to show up in a strange part. Can someone clarify? User Upgrade Signature.png 00:00, 1 May 2012 (PDT)

It's present in the item schema, preping for possiblr future strange parts I suppose. - Devozade 04:55, 1 May 2012 (PDT)

Medigun Allies Extinguished

I think that the Allies extinguished part should be able to add to a strange medigun/kritz/quick fix. Am I wrong, or does healing someone extinguish them faster than waiting for it to stop? Yuurg 13:57, 9 May 2012 (PDT)

Yes,healing someone extinguishes them faster than waiting for it to stop.--Riancoady 12:27, 17 June 2012 (PDT)
We don't have control over how the game works. rZ 12:20, 17 June 2012 (PDT)

Ordering of Parts in List

Alphabetical, by tag or as it is now in roughly "release" order? - Devozade 04:36, 18 May 2012 (PDT)

Sandman

Can someone test if the Sandman does Posthumous damage? I would assume it does (The Ball) but I would feel better if someone could double-check.

It does not. Balladofwindfishes 18:52, 20 May 2012 (PDT)
The tags list is there for a reason. But no, the posthumous part cannot be used with the Sandman at all, despite it technically being able to kill after death. - Devozade 08:43, 21 May 2012 (PDT)

Wrench dominations and kills

I was wondering, since the main counter of any wrench (except for the Southern Hospitality) counts the Sentry Gun kills, if Demomen and Heavies kills are counted with Sentry kills, melee kills or both, and same for the domination/revenge kills. --Peppo o'Paccio User Page (Talk / Contributions) 03:58, 21 May 2012 (PDT)

Both. Killicon black rose.png Hinaomi 04:14, 21 May 2012 (PDT)
Has that been tested since it was last confirmed it only counted melee kills? Has it changed? - Devozade 08:49, 21 May 2012 (PDT)

Kills while explosive jumping

While Demo and Soldier are the most common forms of explosive jumping, some other classes can do that too. Engineer with wrangled level 3 sentry, Pyro with detonator or a skilled rocket airblast, any class with a pumpkin bomb, also any class that has been knocked into the air by an enemy explosive. Yuurg 06:58, 1 June 2012 (PDT)

Well, the "Kills while Explosive Jumping" Strange part can only be attached to Soldier and Demo weapons. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 02:57, 2 June 2012 (PDT)

I believe that you have to still be in the air to get the kill to count, can anyone confirm this?--Awesome Weegee Login_Soldier.png 19:57, 21 July 2012 (PDT)

Removing Parts

The page mentions that you can remove parts using Restore, but can you pick which ones to remove. Like, say my Rocket Launcher has 3 strange parts on it already, but I want to take off Heavies Killed and add Critical Kills instead. When you restore can you choose what to take off or does it just remove all of them? Redjarman 18:56, 29 June 2012 (PDT)

Just click restore, then click no until it asks you to remove that specific strange part. Yuurg 05:13, 3 July 2012 (PDT)

REMOVE BUGS

Active "bug": The "Allies Extinguished" Strange part cannot be applied to any of Medic's Medi Guns, despite the fact they can be used to extinguish burning allies. ; As an example. This is not a bug. It can't be applied because valve doesnt update the mediguns to allow that attribute. It's like paints and other tools. So if the option wasn't enabled by valve you can't apply any strange part to a weapon. So this specific bugs should be removed. Open for 1week, if no opposite reasons are posted i will just remove the "bad bugs". Thank you TheDoctor 19:52, 8 July 2012 (PDT)

Perhaps the fact that Valve hasn't added that attribute could be considered a bug itself? By your logic, the Strange Escape Plan not counting kills wasn't a bug, Valve just hadn't made it work yet. Redjarman 22:29, 11 July 2012 (PDT)

This weapon itself dropped only because of valve duplicating items without applying all attributes to the new cloned weapon. TheDoctor 22:32, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
This does not change the fact that it clearly wasn't working as intended, just like the "Allies Extinguished" part. Stocking 18:27, 23 July 2012 (PDT)
Not apply-able weapons makes it not a bug. Valve just didnt unlocked it to be useable on that or this weapon. Even in the 20 july patch notes they just said that they allowed a weapon to be useable with this strange part. It is unlocked by hand for each weapon. Pls join the irc chat and discuss with the moderators about it. My discuss is very old and no moderator objected in this >2weeks. TheDoctor 18:46, 23 July 2012 (PDT)
Well apparently someone has decided that this constitutes 'trivia'. It is currently on the Medi Gun, Kritzkrieg, and Quick-Fix pages. I suggest that if such an issue is notable, it should be listed as trivia (or as a bug) on THIS page, and the list should be extensive. Darkid (talk|contribs) 09:22, 24 July 2012 (PDT)
Note in trivia is enough. User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png Hinaomi (talk) - (contributions) 09:32, 24 July 2012 (PDT)
Not a bug or trivia. Medigun doesn't use the same extinguish code the other items do, making it work would require a lot different way of doing it. Balladofwindfishes 09:40, 24 July 2012 (PDT)