Difference between revisions of "Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion"

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== Imperial vs metric ==
 
  
I've noticed that a bunch of pages, it only mentions imperial. I think the standard should be metric, then imperial. On the English speed tables metric is excluded altogether, and I don't see a reason why. I've asked Tark to look at this but he didn't understand the table. Might be a minor topic, but this is what I think.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 09:12, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
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== Dark Mode ==
:I'd support the metric system over imperial anytime :> [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] [[User:VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">'''VasyaTheWizard'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">contributions</font>]])</sup>  16:05, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 
::Maybe we could set whether the wiki displays Imperial units vs Metric units as a preference. That way you can display whichever unit of measurement you prefer. [[User:GoodMudkip|GoodMudkip]] ([[User talk:GoodMudkip|talk]]) 15:43, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 
  
== Setting a standarized response to events of enormous importance? ==
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I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
  
Hi! '''Context''' - So, it's been a day since the now historical and infamous leak of source code for TF2 (the leaked code is from around late 2016 or early 2017), and as a consequence of it there has been a massive amount of rumors and misinformation regarding whether the live build of TF2 had its security compromised, specifically the remote code execution (RCE) exploit being possible (as we thought at the time). As it turns out, the RCE was false information (that we had learned about several hours later and didnt know at the time of adding/discussing banner) that was claimed by many people and we were alarmed by it, in response putting up a banner informing users of such possibility. In my overlook - it was a good decision, albeit it might be considered to be a rushed move.  
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:Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
<br> '''My questions''' here are two - '''1''' - How do we response in the future? Do we, for example, accept speculation that entails potential security exploits/risks as facts for sake of "Better safe than sorry", until we get an official word OR someone with an engine knowledge to do an "expertise" for us or do we simply stay quiet on the situation? We could alternatively word any banners in safe way so that we show we lack confirmation for any information, but we're putting a warning just in case?
 
<br> '''2''' - if it isnt a security-risk exploit, but an exploit or any other event of high importance (remember Crate depression of 2019?) do we also put up an informative banner? excuse poor formatting
 
<br>'''EDIT''': also forgot to mention that another factor is of course how severe the situation is and how much time should be taken to make a decision - in this instance of potential RCE, the decision had to be taken immediately given how dangerous it is/was.  - [[User:Goodjob|Goodjob]] ([[User talk:Goodjob|talk]])
 
  
== Discord vs IRC ==
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== Valve Store ==
  
So to settle this discussion, because it keeps popping up, we might as well make a discussion on it so we can point to other users.
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The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
I see no reason to step over, the only real thing that it has is a better UI that's less scary for new users. The support team for Discord is garbage, if you have a problem (E.g. someone posting illegal content or people starting a witch hunt) they just tell you to ignore the problem. I've reported both of the examples I gave, and got the response to block the user and/or leave the server. The situation we had with a user constantly coming back to harass us is one that wouldn't have been resolved as quickly as it had been on IRC. The only feature I can think of that would be more useful is an embed feature, which can also happen in a client. I find that Discord is less stable with servers, as there are the occasional outages that I have never experienced in IRC (Only time I get disconnected from IRC is when my own internet fucks up). Furthermore I think that Discord requiring a phone number to sign up now (If you don't have an account yet, you HAVE to include a phone number otherwise you can't get access) will limit access unnecessarily.
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:Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
TL;DR: Discord doesnt have any features I see needed, and it's just more of a hassle.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 17:58, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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== Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal ==
  
:I think we should move to Steam when Valve fixes the history auto-deletion bug (if that's really a bug, I dunno), it's kinda-like Discord but you don't need to register it, and most (if not all) users on the Wiki have Steam. What you said about Discord needing a phone number to register may not be true, I just entered on their website, clicked on Register and it haven't asked for a phone number (unless it's after I input an e-mail and password), unless that's a planned future "feature". Personally I don't like Discord, I only use it to talk with close friends, so it's most likely that I wouldn't enter the Wiki Server either, but that's just me. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:08, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL]. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes ([[Cotton Head]], [[Brotherhood of Arms]], etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): [https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT]. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: [https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG]. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
::After you create an account you go into the software and it tells you to put in a phone number with no way of removing it.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 20:10, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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:I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
:::I guess it's even worse like this since it doesn't ask prior to your registration (like how it "should" be, but honestly it shouldn't need to write a phone number to begin with). [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:14, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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== Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model ==
  
::::Also, I didn't mentioned, the only downside with Steam (other than the chat history deleting itself) is that Steam servers are very unstable. I've lost count how many times I had conversations interrupted with someone (on Direct Messages, not even on a Group) because of Steam servers. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:25, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the [[Soldier's Stash]], [[Horrible Horns]] on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin ([[Texas Half-Pants]], [[Millennial Mercenary]]'s Streaming 2Fort style, [[Exquisite Rack]], [[Battle Bob]]'s With Helmet style, [[Bacteria Blocker]]'s Headphones style, etc).
  
::::: Some of us can't access Steam or Discord at work. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 20:29, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on [[Decorated Veteran]] since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).
  
::::::Oh yeah, I forgot about that. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:56, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.
  
{{outdent|7}} '''Very Strong Oppose To Discord''' -- a platform constantly issuing false bans at random and worsening their software with every update is completely unreliable, not to mention the extra points Grampa put up.  I can expect there's a reason many wikis still use IRC.
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Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.
<br>I am '''neutral''' on Steam, it has a couple differences from Discord but is ultimately really similar in terms of features (and we can also guarantee a Steam account when the wiki is for a Steam game). I already own a Steam Chat containing several other people on the Wiki, so it would be easy to simply add more people as segue. However, Garbielwoj I should tell you that the message deletion is not a bug, as Steam is intended for regular conversations and not archives, you should not be holding out for a "fix". However, this would not be much of a downgrade as IRC does not archive either so we could continue logging to the website.
 
<br>Ultimately, I don't think there's any huge glaring problems with IRC. Sure, you can't post images and such, but it's easily workaround, we've been using it for years, and there's no glaring problems/micropurchases/proprietary other problems. In short: ''either Steam or IRC is fine with me at least''. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 21:17, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 
  
: "IRC does not archive either" - IRC '''does''' log chat. It has since the start. However, I initially thought it archived everything. Upon checking, it seems you can only go about 3 years back in the archives at any time. The site won't load anything past a certain point in 2017, so for example you can still view [https://irc.biringa.com/channel/tfwiki/2017-05-01.html May 1st, 2017]'s logs. Unless this is just a technical issue with the site or something? I swear you used to be able to go back way more before. '''[[User:404UNF|404UNF]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404UNF|(talk)]]</sup> 00:47, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
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Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The [[Mann-Bird of Aberdeen]] looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like [[Team Captain]] for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: [https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0 https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0]). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
:: As Naleksuh said, logging is done by us, it's not an IRC feature. It should't be a problem if we ever decide to move to a better service.
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:I would support every page having both team colours.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
:: You can't see pre-2017 messages because the database got corrupted. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 04:42, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 
  
I agree with Naleksuh and Swood here, '''very strongly opposing Discord'''. It's a closed, proprietary platform that is extremely unreliable with its constant outages, the likes of which I have never experienced on IRC myself (could depend on the client's internet connection?). Somehow they manage to make it worse every update and it's already starting to look and feel Facebook-ish. At any point in time, they can decide to do literally anything to your accounts/servers (remember how it didn't use to require a phone number?), and you'd have no choice but to comply and bend over. What if they locked your account and started requiring photos of your ID? Not to mention their constant controversies - remember that youtuber guy getting banned for personal drama with a mod? Remember how they said that ''they don't consider pedophilia a violation of their ToS''? With just that alone I personally consider Discord a disgusting service to stay away from. A modern IRC client beats Discord in every aspect - it's free, open source, anonymous when necessary, decentralized, you can self-host servers, run your own custom clients, and you don't risk getting booted off the entire network because a mod disagrees with you or something.<br>/endrant, please excuse any strong language I used here. I promise I'm not Richard Stallman's alt account :> [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] [[User:VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">'''VasyaTheWizard'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">contributions</font>]])</sup>  05:17, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
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== Articles for individual environmental hazards ==
:Pedophilia has been against their ToS since the start, but it was specifically furry cp (called "cub") that they would allow (Their staff is known for being almost all furries, the guy who responded saying that cub was fine had a furry pfp as well). That, in my opinion, is worse. Also to add to Discord's bugs: Sometimes sets already read messages to unread which is very annoying/confusing (Did Discord bug out again or did someone delete their message?), muting certain categories and collapsing them will randomly make them uncollapse and add a read message notifier. If we were to switch to Discord, I'd expect a lot more users because people join all kinds of Discord for stuff they might be interested in, this might lead to the server slowing down (If the Subnautica Discord announces anything in their announcement channel you can't see it because the channel won't load due to an overload of users trying to go there).<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 09:40, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== Changes to where SCM links should be  ==
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Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: [[Ghost]], [[Pumpkin bomb]], [[Saw blade]], and [[Train]].
  
Some cosmetic items can not be marketable in their unique form. (ie the [[Team Captain]]) Most of these do not have SCM links in their infoboxes. However, some items which can not be marketable in their unique (non killstreak) form (ie the [[Conscientious Objector]]) do have SCM links. Should all items that have a marketable quality have this, or only items that can be marketable in their base form? [[File:Item icon Salty Dog.png|link=Salty Dog{{if lang}}|40px|Salty Dog]][[User:InfernalShroom|<span><font color="850101"><b><big>InfernalShroom</big></b> </font></span>]][[User_talk:InfernalShroom|<span><font color="850101"><big><b>(Talk)</b></big></font></span>]] 03:29, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
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These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "''[Train horn noises]''". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the [[Environmental death]] article.
  
: We've added the market buy button just a while ago, so it's normal that some pages weren't updated yet (as we don't have many editors actively checking them). — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 04:28, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
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I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to [[Pitfall]].
  
== Source code on the wiki ==
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As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:
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* Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
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* Create a separate page for that (similar to the [[Item timeline]] pages).
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* Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).
  
With the recent source leak, how do we handle source code on the wiki? I've generally accepted it as being allowed as long as there is no link to download it and it's just a picture, but I don't know if there are any legal troubles with this. If we do allow it, how can we verify that it is real TF2 source code and not just something that looks like it quickly written?<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
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I am ok with [[Skeletons]] and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).
  
: The problems start and end when you redistribute code with a proprietary license. There's no trickery or technicality around it. I don't want Valve's lawyers putting their spiel on our talk page cause both them and us knows that would be the silliest thing. So avoid putting any of the code on the wiki, even if alleged, even if screenshot of monitor displaying screenshot. Thank you for bringing up question though. Probably needed addressing. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 18:42, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
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Opinions? - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
  
== Reverting image deletions ==
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:I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to [[List of game modes]], where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
  
I don't know if this is a bug or a limitation of MediaWiki, but I attempted to restore some deleted files (images), and it seems that these are not coming back (I checked the pages for it, and the images are not showing up), it only restored their page, but not the file... Looks like they were deleted forever: https://i.imgur.com/tEYLLvI.png
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:: I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by {{code|<nowiki>== Section title ==</nowiki>}}) would be a "complete" article.<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
<br>Looks like the only way we could get those images back are hoping for Google cache or WayBackMachine. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 
: I think it's because RJ recently did a purge of images. Pretty sure it deleted any images that could be rolled back I guess.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 19:36, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 
:: Well I managed to get the pictures back by visiting [https://dev.wiki.tf/wiki/Killstreak_Kit https://dev.wiki.tf/wiki/Killstreak_Kit], I didn't even knew dev.wiki.tf was a thing, I found out searching on Google for Killstreak Kit images, then I went to someone's UserPage on dev.wiki.tf and searched Killstreak Kit from there. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:00, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== Featured pages in other languages ==
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== A request ==
  
How featured pages work in languages other than english? Only english pages gets featured, but theres featured article section on every main page? Are we suppose to update local main pages to match same features article as english one? And even then, the featured page is sometimes outdated in different language. Do translated fetaured pages are also featured? I propose complete removal of featured page section on main pages other than english, and replacing it with something else. [[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]][[User:Fiat Seicento|FiatSeicento]][[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]] 09:36, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
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In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because [[Classic]] and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
  
:Dereko is not sure about "Do translated fetaured pages are also featured", however, it's possible to update them in [[Template:FeaturedArticle]] (for example, [[Template:FeaturedArticle/zh-hans]] ), and there is no need to remove them. Like you said, featured page is sometimes outdated in different language, you can keep an eye (by using watchlist) on it to keep updating, if you'd ilke to.
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:If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use <nowiki>{{ucfirst:<string>}}</nowiki> to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, <nowiki>{{ucfirst:hello world}}</nowiki> generates {{ucfirst:hello world}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
[[File:User Dereko Name.png|100px|link=User:Dereko]] 09:57, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== Change to [[Help:Style guide/Trivia|trivia guidelines]] ==
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::Could you help me with this? I've changed it in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
There's been multiple instances in the past where I've undone trivia which broke the "no speculation" guideline. Personally I think this guideline is a good guideline since it prevents false info, however I believe it needs some changes. I've undone trivia which I personally did see the connection with (See the [[Mercenary Park (map)|Mercenary Park]] fiasco. TL;DR: helicopter looks like a real-life one, but because no source I removed it). A change to include very obvious things or pointing out similarities with what something may be based off of (E.g. like the helicopter examples. Maybe include a <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> or similar notice) or just allowing them to be moved to a "notes" section would suffice. I personally wouldn't mind either or maybe both. I do think something should be done regarding this.
 
[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 19:28, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
: Note that loosening criteria for what qualifies as good trivia is a floodgate as it is. After a while it'll just end up being cloud watchers putting their favorite pet notion into the game. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 19:40, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
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:::Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{tl|lang}} template instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
  
::Loosening criteria for what qualifies as good trivia can't open a floodgate if you know what to let through. For example, before the eighteen RED and BLU UberCharged avatars were released by Valve (nine for each team respectively), two users ::on the FacePunch forum, Occlusion and Fearlezz, created a set of avatars very similar to what Valve would later release. Some things to keep in mind are:
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::::[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3408072&oldid=3388990 I already did it once and...] [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
  
::* For every Valve title that was given a set of avatars, Team Fortress 2 was the first to ever be given three avatar sets. Every other Valve title has only ever received one set of avatars (L4D being the exception with special infected avatars).
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:::::Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{tl|lang incomplete}}?<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
::* Before Valve even ever rolled out these avatars, Robin Walker was seen using one of the avatars created by Occlusion and Fearlezz.
 
  
::Do you think this was an intentional addition to the avatar pool to show Robin Walker's appreciation for the avatars created by Occlusion and Fearlezz? Or do you think this was all purely coincidental, and thusly, should be thrown out under
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::::::I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3584139&oldid=3583139 this edit]? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
::the tense that since Valve never made an official statement on the matter, it's all speculation and theory crafting?
 
::[[User:Synth|Synth]] ([[User talk:Synth|talk]]) 20:07, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
::: Synth: This thread is specific to adjustments of Trivia policy and process. I don’t intend to discuss unresolved examples here. '''''Any''''' removal of a contribution is a ''de facto'' <u>open invitation</u> to the contributor to discuss it on the remover’s talk page (unless the remover starts a discussion with you elsewhere). GrampaSwood’s talk page would be the place for your discussion or you may take this subject to my talk page and invite GrampaSwood.
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{{Outdent|6}}Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link <nowiki>[[VintageVintage]]</nowiki>.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
::: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 18:59, 9 May 2020 (UTC)  
 
  
: I think the common sore point in Trivia submissions and reversions is the question of speculation. "Guesses" and "conjecture" are rather easy to define, but the speculation is confusing to many; to both clueless posters and "subject experts" (generously speaking). The clueless posters really haven’t contributed anything, and their post may be reverted with ''gentle explanation'', but the contributions by subject experts (assuming notability and relevance) can be a positive contribution. The challenge is for the reviewing editors to figure out which is the case for each contribution. The clueless poster may rant about the revert, even with gentle explanation; that is the simple nature of the beast. The subject expert gets a different impression, especially those that are on only going to make one post ever on the subject of their joy, if not profession.  The subject expert is not going to understand how their practiced, maybe even professional, knowledge is speculation.  In short, the word "Speculation" in the edit summary alone is very insufficient in either situation. The noob will not know what speculation means (yet), and the expert will know they are not speculating. The clueless posters, ideally, should be led to an understanding of the wiki’s processes. But, IMO, the subject expert should be engaged to provide substantiation to the reviewer.  Moreover, if there is nothing in the edit summary (except "Speculation") or the OP’s talk page, there is no way for the patroller to know if there was any other collaboration.
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== Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history ==
  
: So, rather than suggesting loosening of the criteria, I suggest a ''focus on process''. The published "Removing trivia" guidance is rather binary, either keep or remove immediately. What if it ''might not'' be Trivia? Maybe it is not necessary to remove every non-Trivia (''almost'' Trivia) immediately? 
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I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. [[User:The American Boot|The American Boot]] ([[User talk:The American Boot|talk]]) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
  
: My Personal Trivia Patrol Practice is to first to assess the contribution for any virtue and either leave it in the Trivia if it is good and fitting or adapt it for inclusion elsewhere, collaborating with the OP if currently active. The present heading "Removing trivia" pretty much says that removal is the option, but I envision more of a Reacting to Trivia Posts toolkit, including the practices GrampaSwood suggests, or maybe a section or annex on how to "fix" a contribution that is missing substantiation.
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:If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed [[Help:Style_guide/Trivia|Trivia guild]].[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
:[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 18:49, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
: What with all the new stuff found in the source code leak (as well as some of the reslist leak stuff), I think the stance on speculatory content in general needs to be changed a tad to not be so anti-speculation. I try to refrain from getting ''too'' speculatory in some of the cut/experimental content articles I've been creating based on things in the source code, but sometimes all you have to go on is a single string (see [[Throwable weapons#Snowball]] for example) so in cases like that I feel like some speculation on intended functionality wouldn't really hurt provided it were properly labelled as such. Something like "The following information is purely speculatory based on the existing evidence we have at this point in time", just as an example. '''[[User:404UNF|404UNF]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404UNF|(talk)]]</sup> 01:44, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
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:I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The [[Art Pass Contest]] page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
  
:: Something found in the source is not speculation, but ''guessing why'' something is in the code ''is'' speculation, and unnecessary. We have places and style for Unused Content.  Speculation is not the only constraint to apply here. Candidate content for Trivia and Unused Content still must also be notable and ''generally'' interesting. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 12:53, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
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== Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts ==
  
::: I suppose this type of thing would be better suited for a more cut-content-focused wiki like TCRF instead of here. '''[[User:404UNF|404UNF]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404UNF|(talk)]]</sup> 03:58, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
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I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the [[Lollichop]], which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the [[Third Degree]] and [[Neon Annihilator]], which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the [[Cow Mangler 5000]], [[Scottish Resistance]], and [[Ullapool Caber]], which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the [[Vita-Saw]], which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.
  
== Wikipedia vs fandom ==
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I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.
  
If wikipedia can be used, but so can fandom. Which one is preferred? It's been changed on the [[Tsar Platinum]] and [[Starboard Crusader]] twice now, but I don't know which one is better to use. I personally prefer wikipedia, as fandoms might not be kept up-to-date.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 07:24, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
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Speaking of the [[Pyro taunts]] page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
: That and wikis maintained by and for a fandom have a tendency to start crawling up their own butt with fanfic at some point as the Silent Hill wiki's weird ass has proved on at least one occasion. Wikipedia is the one with citations and accuracy checked by people that care purely about those things for their own sake. If it were me I'd go with wikipedia unless the reference was so obscure it's not anywhere but fan wiki. Pretty much what I do anyway. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 23:37, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 
:: I would prefer to not have outbound links in the middle of the article besides to wikipedia (and even then there would ''ideally'' be some type of indicator), even if jojowiki.com is better than fandom, it should be treated like any other external link [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 07:06, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== Cut content update note question ==
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:I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
  
Regarding articles I've created for the Jungle Inferno weapon leaks such as [[Viewfinder]]; In the update notes where I've listed their removal from the game files, I've added a little "wink" of sorts with the addition of "''Oops.''" to the end of the note "'''[Undocumented]''' Files for the Viewfinder were removed from the game". as the files for these leaked weapons were pushed accidentally by Valve with the moving of many weapon models to their new {{code|models\workshop}} directory in the update. There was no actual patch note from Valve about the removal of these files to my knowledge so it is an undocumented change and I feel a little wink like this doesn't hurt but it's been contested I guess you can say, so I'd like to get some consensus on this. '''[[User:404UNF|404UNF]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404UNF|(talk)]]</sup> 07:29, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
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== Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization ==
  
* {{c|-|remove}} "''Oops''" is absolutely non-encyclopedic editorial commentary, and possibly a bit speculative. It should be left to Valve to say that. I try to hide such in comments or talk. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 12:27, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
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'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
:* {{c|-|remove}} Pretty much what Mikado said here. I also doubt that many readers will be able to understand the allusion, and as already stated it is non-encyclopedic commentary and adds no value whatsoever. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 20:47, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 
::* {{c|-|remove}} I'm usually pretty positive when it comes for suggestions and such, but I have to agree with the others here. I'm fine with a patch stating that the unused content was removed, however the "Oops" is not necessary, in a way, it ends up being an opinion from someone who has written on the article/item itself, however most readers doesn't associate individual users on articles, so most will probably think that it's an opinion by the Wiki editors as a whole, I think... [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:59, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 
::: {{c|-|remove}} [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 22:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== <nowiki>{{achievement name}}</nowiki> template? ==
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:See [[Template:Dictionary/common_strings#.5BMain_Page.5D_Smissmas_2023|Dictionary common strings]].<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
  
The game has 520 achievements. How about an <code><nowiki>{{achievement name}}</nowiki></code> template to easily translate an achievement's name on a page instead of having to go through files and pages to find the localized names? - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 23:08, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
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:: Thanks. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
  
: {{c|done}} See [[Template:Achievement name]] for more info. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 12:04, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
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== Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work ==
  
== Speed table changes ==
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[[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_Wiki:Wiki_Birthday#Official.E2.84.A2_Team_Fortress_Energy_Drink]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]]''' ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Nonolemage|contribs]]) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC</small>
  
Can we please change the speed table to be a more normal template? For some reason it's very confusing and uses maths to calculate the speeds (At least, that's what it seems like). And uses imperial on the English page exclusively. This makes it very hard to add anything new or change it. Can this template just be changed to something like the {{tl|Class health pack and overheal table}}? It's much easier to add something.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 19:18, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
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:Please sign your messages using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
:Not completely unrelated, but, speaking of speeds... I made this topic on [[Talk:Medic#Medic.27s_speed]]. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 22:22, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
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:The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
  
== Deleting Account ==
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== Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc ==
  
Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but is there a way to delete my account? Thanks. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by [redacted]''</small>
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Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:
  
: Unfortunately we can't delete accounts, but I can rename it to something like "DeletedUser####". — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 22:31, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
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<hr>
  
:: That will be fine. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by [redacted]''</small>
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1) Implement a way on the {{code|Item infobox}} template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:
  
::: {{c|done}}. No need to reply. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 22:48, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
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a) The Heavy variant of the [[Team Captain]] only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: [https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z]. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.
  
== Someone did something ==
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b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of [[Close Quarters Cover]], include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: [https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME].
  
'| item-level =' shows now in infobox, instaed of only item type and level. Looks like it happens on every page: [[Bushwacka]], [[Familiar Fez]], [[Pool Party]]. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|<font color="DB9C1F">Denied</font>]] [[User talk:Denied|<font color="DB9C1F">(Talk)</font>]] 06:35, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
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c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the [[Dead Little Buddy]] have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: [https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO].
  
: {{c|done|&nbsp;}} Should be fixed. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 06:50, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
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d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the [[Jumper's Jeepcap]] would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like [[Mustachioed Mann]], would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like [[Carl]] that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.
  
== Double name of item type ==
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<hr>
  
Was it intentional? Now it looks like in game, rather than how it looks on SCM. In-game version looks like it wasn't something intentional, but rather a limitation after system with graded cosmetics was intruduced. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|<font color="DB9C1F">Denied</font>]] [[User talk:Denied|<font color="DB9C1F">(Talk)</font>]] 16:18, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
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2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): [https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP]. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.
  
:Yes, this was intentional. I've been working to make the backpack item template function more like it does in-game, as that's the primary source for all information regarding styling for the template. -- [[User:Boba|Boba]] 02:37, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
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<hr>
  
== Should the line break in the Backpack item template be removed? ==
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3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: [https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo]
  
The [[Template:Backpack item|Backpack item template]] has had a [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/637648816341778432/770114218900324372/unknown.png weird line break] between the item information and description for years now. This isn't accurate to the how the [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/637648816341778432/770114299904393236/unknown.png game does it]. With that being said, should I remove the line break on the template? The goal of the template is to provide an infobox as similar as possible to the ones seen ingame, and this seems like a no-brainer. Give me your thoughts. -- [[User:Boba|Boba]] 02:41, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
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<hr>
  
: {{c|yes}}. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 11:55, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
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4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Boarder%27s_Beanie&oldid=3594086 this page]). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]
:: {{c|yes}}<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 16:09, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 
::: {{c|yes}}[[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]][[User:Fiat Seicento|FiatSeicento]][[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]] 18:48, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 
:::: {{c|yes}} yeah [[User:Goodjob|Goodjob]] ([[User talk:Goodjob|talk]]) 18:49, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 
::::: {{c|yes}} most certainly [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] [[User:VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">'''VasyaTheWizard'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">contributions</font>]])</sup>  18:50, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 
:::::: {{c|yes}} definitely [[User:Zeklyn|Zeklyn]] ([[User talk:Zeklyn|talk]]) 20:23, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== 119th Update Nav? ==
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a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.
  
I'm in the middle of an update page/navbar renovation project to promote easy reading, and flow of gameplay-affecting things down to cosmetic stuff and ancillary media, but while I was doing that, I noticed the 119th Update doesn't have a navbar at all. And while the update itself ''did'' just add the employee badges, the update ''the day before'' added Crit-a-Cola, and Freight, and a bunch of other weapon changes not currently listed on that page; however, Crit-a-Cola and Freight ''are'' mentioned the "update progress" section on the 119th Update article.
+
<hr>
So as it stands, there are three options here, and I'm having a hard time deciding which one to pick. We can either:
 
  
1) Leave the update as the only major update that doesn't have a nav.<br>
+
5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, [[Main Cast]] would look like this: [https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs].
2) Create a nav with just the employee badges.<br>
 
3) Create a nav with Freight and Crit-a-Cola in it too, and add the stuff from the [[April 28, 2010 Patch]] to the 119th Update page formally.
 
  
What are our collective thoughts on this? -[[User:ThatHatGuy|ThatHatGuy]] ([[User talk:ThatHatGuy|talk]]) 04:13, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
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<hr>
  
:I like 2 and 3, but I can't decide on which I prefer. :B - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 04:15, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
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6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like [[Dead of Night]] wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.
::I've gone ahead and made a basic nav for the 119th Update, after having made ones for the Hatless Update and Community Map Pack, so as to give everything navs that didn't have any. What remains to be discussed now is if we should also include the stuff the day before that update, if anyone would like to discuss that. -[[User:ThatHatGuy|ThatHatGuy]] ([[User talk:ThatHatGuy|talk]]) 12:24, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== The TFWIKI update. ==
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'''Edit:''' Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Robot_Chicken_Hat&oldid=1679218 looked like this]. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.
  
Do you think the wiki needs some update? (ex: '''Dark mode''', '''New editor''', '''etc'''.)
+
I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538] (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.
For me (my opinion.) the wiki looks '''obsolete'''.
 
  
[[User:AuroraBorreal|MaxwellWagner]] ([[User talk:AuroraBorreal|talk]])
+
<hr>
  
Then I suppose Wikipedia's design is obsolete. [[User:Danimations|Danimations]] ([[User talk:Danimations|talk]]) 00:53, 17 March 2021 (UTC) [[User:Danimations|Danimations]] ([[User talk:Danimations|talk]])
+
7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, [[Brawling Buccaneer]] would have its Painted variants table from <nowiki>{{Painted variants}}</nowiki> to <nowiki>{{Painted variants full}}</nowiki>, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.
  
== Adding Unusual effect previews to cosmetic pages ==
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<hr>
  
I have an idea that could improve the wiki (And I'm willing to do all the work) GREATLY. My idea is to add previews of Unusual effects on cosmetic pages with the cosmetic in question. Now this would be kind of a chore to do with all the effects, but worry not! My idea is to ONLY include Unusual effects that the cosmetic has been confirmed to be opened with (For example if I want to include previews for the California Cap's effects, instead of making previews for every Unusual effect that exists, I would just go to https://backpack.tf/unusual/California%20Cap, check the effects that the item has been unboxed with then make previews for that item.)
+
8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as [[Manndatory Attire]], [[Beaten and Bruised]] and [[Boarder's Beanie‎]]), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6 https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6]
While you may think this would slow down making new pages, it would not! Instead of doing all the Unusual effects that exist right away, I would wait for about a month or two to THEN be able to make previews. (Of course, I won't always be 100% up-to-date in case an Unusual will be unboxed with a new effect/effect that it was never unboxed right away with, but I would at least try) This will require a lot of time to set up for all the existing Unusual cosmetics, true, but I'm up to the challenge. -Roebloz
 
:Hi there,
 
:First of all, please sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
 
:This is an interesting idea, however, this is simply too much work. You might think you'll be up to the challenge, but I've personally said that with a lot of things and I can see in hindsight that I would not be able to. Loadout.tf serves this purpose already, and doing only existing unusual effects would be very inconsistent. If you were to do all the unusual effects, it would simply be too much work.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:07, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 
::I can relate to Swood. I wanted to do a few things that would take a lot of time and work, but at the end, I simply didn't (there were other reasons why, but nowadays, I'm happy I don't need to do what I was planning to do about a year ago). Players can inspect someone's else item in-game, to see details of the Unusual and other stuff. Yes, it is broken in-game (inspecting someone's item does nothing), but that's Valve's fault and not us. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:46, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== Blurry images. ==
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<hr>
  
Some infobox images have been showing blurry, despite the image itself being fine. [[Derangement Garment]] is an example of one of them. I have seen other pages/infobox images with the same issue before. I use Vivaldi as my web browser, but pretty much any other infobox picture out there works fine (especially from old cosmetics), so I doubt it's something with my browser. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:11, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
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'''Edit: ''' 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. [[Manndatory Attire]] has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.
:[https://wiki.tf/d/2904127 This] should fix it. Just add <code>| imagewidth    = 261px</code>.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 21:14, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== Link pages for notable persons/content artists ==
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a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.
  
I have noted inconsistency, instability, and maintenance issues in links from the names of real persons who are particularly notable in the ''Team Fortress'' contexts. I think there is opportunity to both increase and standardize the information and experience the wiki provides users with respect to notable persons.
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b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like [[Onimann]] mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.
  
The proposal is to created standardized pages similar in format and content to the pages in the [[:Category:Topics covered better by other wikis]]. The pages would provide both links to multiple other pages that better cover the person's biography and works in and out of ''Team Fortress'' and to pages about works they have contributed to ''Team Fortress''.
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<hr>
  
Examples of what is proposed:
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Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
* [[User:Mikado282/Sandbox/Heather Campbell]]
 
* [[User:Mikado282/Sandbox/Robin Atkin Downes]]
 
* [[User:Mikado282/Sandbox/Rick May]]
 
* [[User:Mikado282/Sandbox/Jim Murray]]
 
* [[User:Mikado282/Sandbox/Robin Walker]]
 
  
''It is important to understand that notable persons/content artist pages '''''must not''''' be developed into biographies.'' This wiki’s policy is  [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons no biographies of real persons, living or otherwise.]<!-- regular interwiki link won't work for some reason -->. These notable persons pages are intended only as augmented disambiguations, indexes, and redirects. ''Strict'' adherence to limited content and format policy ([[User:Mikado282/Sandbox/Category:Notable persons|here]]) should be enforced.
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:1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
 +
:2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
 +
:4/5. I like this.
 +
:6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{tl|Tabs}} template for it.
 +
:7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
 +
:8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{tl|Tabs}}.
 +
:9. See answer on 1.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
  
It is open for discussion whether the existing [[Voice actors]] page should be replaced by these new notable persons pages or that the existing page should be expanded to have multiple person links and multiple links to their collective works (e.g., non-wiki art galleries).
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::1 {{c|+|Agree}} - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
 +
::2 / 3 {{c|?|Not sure / changes}} - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
 +
::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - This also looks nice.
 +
::5 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.
 +
::6 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
 +
::7 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
 +
::8 {{c|+|Agree / changes}} - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
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::9 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.
 +
::[[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Speech typing.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] [[File:Photo Badge Decal Example.png|15px|link=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:ListFiles?limit=25&user=Andrew360&ilshowall=0]] 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
  
'''"Wall of text" Policy text moved to [[User:Mikado282/Sandbox/Category:Notable persons]]''' 17:06, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
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:::1 {{c|-|Disagree}} - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
 +
:::2 {{c|+|Agree}} - Good idea!
 +
:::3 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
 +
:::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - Yes.
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:::5 {{c|+|Agree}} - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
 +
:::6 {{c|+|Agree}} - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
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:::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - Same with Andrew360
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:::8 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{tl|Tabs}}?
 +
:::9 {{c|?|Disagree.. or Sorta Agree}} - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
 +
:::[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
  
Please comment, especially for any expansion of the list of Valve staff.
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::::1 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
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::::2 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I wanna see how it would look first.
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::::3 {{c|+|Agree}} - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
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::::4 {{c|+|Strongly agree}} - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
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::::5 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I like the idea, but it will take a '''lot''' of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
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::::6 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Same answer as 5.
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::::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
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::::8 {{c|-|Somewhat disagree}} - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
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::::9 {{c|-|Strongly disagree}} - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
 +
::::[[User:ShadowMan44|ShadowMan44]] ([[User talk:ShadowMan44|talk]]) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
  
[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>❄</small>❄❄❄❄<small>❄ ❄❄  ❄❄</small></font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 00:32, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
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:::::So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.
  
P.S. I just wanted to see what it could look like done up into a table that could eventually be templated and translation switched:
+
:::::However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.
* [[User:Mikado282/Sandbox/Table of notable persons]]
 
I don't know. This may be neater being just one GD Big file, but it doesn't look as sharp as the single pages. A real problem with such a table would be getting the text to look good at various zoom.
 
  
[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>❄</small>❄❄❄❄<small>❄ ❄❄  ❄❄</small></font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 04:27, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
+
:::::GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.
  
: {{c|+|Support}}. I really like this idea. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 01:07, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
+
:::::GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the [[Boarder's Beanie]] paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.
:: {{c|+|Support}} [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] [[User:VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">'''VasyaTheWizard'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">contributions</font>]])</sup>  06:20, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 
::: {{c|+|Support}} Sure. [[User:Goodjob|Goodjob]] ([[User talk:Goodjob|talk]]) 12:08, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 
::::{{c|support}} Fine proposal and well-thought-out, would indeed serve well as an index for those in need of a quick reference. I do find the table expansion more ideal for replacing the Voice actors page since it could just be redirected, however, that would defeat the purpose of having their own individual page. Of course, the Voice actors page could simply be made into a disambiguation and then provide links to each VA from there, and the same goes for notable persons. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 21:54, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 
::::: Wait, Wok, individual pages or one GD Big table? Each Comic page links to the creative person, each individual page would link to the category, each category list everyone in the category. [[Voice actors]] and [[Artists]] could redirect to the automatically alphabetized category or, yes, they could be manually maintained list of links to the individual pages. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>❄</small>❄❄❄❄<small>❄ ❄❄  ❄❄</small></font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 01:40, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 
::::::The former - it was merely a suggestion to the Voice actors page replacement if we were to go with the table idea instead, as you did bring it up. But yes, I suppose the table would be a bit clumsy in the end due to all the info and links each cell would need to contain.
 
  
::::::Not entirely sure what you mean by: "..each individual page would link to the category" - I'm assuming you mean having each page categorized under {{code|Category:Notable persons}} and then have both Voice actors and Artists redirect to said category? Never seen a redirect to a category before but it would indeed make maintenance easier. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 21:29, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
+
:::::My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.
  
::::::: OK, launching [[:Category:Notable persons]]. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>❄</small>❄❄❄❄<small>❄ ❄❄  ❄❄</small></font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 02:34, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
+
:::::ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.
  
== Suggestion: Redundant Categories Bot ==
+
:::::Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something [[Liquor Locker]], [[Pocket-Medes]], etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.
  
I'm not sure how hard or easy it'd be to do this, but I think there should be a bot that trawls the wiki for categories, files, and pages that are part of both a category and a sub-category, then removes them from the redundant super-categories. For example, an image of the Spy doesn't need to be in both <nowiki>[[Category:Images]]</nowiki> and <nowiki>[[Category:Spy images]]</nowiki>, because "Spy images" are categorized as "Images" -- it already effectively ''is'' an "Image" by virtue of being a "Spy image." So the bot would remove the <nowiki>[[Category:Images]]</nowiki> markup from the page. [[User:Kestrelguy|Kestrelguy]] ([[User talk:Kestrelguy|talk]]) 22:08, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
+
:::::Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like [[Manndatory Attire]] and [[Boarder's Beanie]] wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?
  
: {{c|yes}}. Solid idea. I'd like to work on it. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 00:02, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
+
:::::ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the [[Dead of Night]] and [[Pocket-Medes]]. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
  
== Zombies ==
+
::::::So [[User:Tekinz|Tekinz]] and [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:
The wiki main page now shows the zombie versions of the mercs. Error? [[User:Mikere|Mikere]] ([[User talk:Mikere|talk]]) 09:36, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 
:It's full moon. Please use the talk page for the main page next time.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 09:42, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 
  
== adding a Rewards item section ==
+
::::::Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.
  
This section would cover items like the [[Professor Speks]], or [[Mann Co. Cap]]. Items that are not unlocked through [[achievements]], but rather though tasks that a player would happen to do. By doing this it would not only give newer players another reason to play, (completing tasks in exchange for a reward), but it would also let older player who might not know about certain things a chance to learn about something new. (not to mention the fact that to get the Professor Speks, you need to be upgrading your account to [[premium]] and you will have to be recommended by a friend, the player might hear about this and want to get the hat themselves, then telling THEIR friends about TF2, making more and more people know about TF2).
+
::::::mgpt:
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 4. You got my vote, very good;
 +
::::::{{c|-|Disagree}} 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;
 +
::::::{{c|Info}} 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in [[Brigade Helm]]? If so, I don't see a problem;
 +
::::::{{c|Info}} 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? [https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C] Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;
 +
::::::{{c|Info}} 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of [[Beaten and Bruised]], the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;
 +
::::::{{c|Info}} I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
  
I feel like this could be a good addition, and I already wrote some of the hats down! (even though I accidentally did it on the main page lol).
+
:::::::I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:
 +
:::::::7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of [[Stout Shako]];
 +
:::::::7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. '''Post-thoughts:''' After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.
 +
:::::::8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the [[Boarder's Beanie]] images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.
 +
:::::::9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Regards, [[User:Ears4you107|Ears4you107]] ([[User talk:Ears4you107|talk]]) 20:41, 29 January 2021 (UTC)Ears4you107
+
{{Outdent|7}} 1 {{c|?|Not sure}} It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.<br>
:These are already listed on the promotional items page, don't really see a need for a separate page unless there are a significant amount of items.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 23:02, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
+
2/3 {{c|+|Agree}} It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!<br>
 
+
4 {{c|+|Agree}} Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)<br>
== Topics to get you a wiki cap? ==
+
5 {{c|-|Disagree}} On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.<br>
 
+
6 {{c|?|Not sure}} I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.<br>
What do you do that gets a high moderator to notice your profile and start a pole on whether or not a user can get a wiki cap?
+
7 {{c|?|Not sure}} I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.<br>
[[User:Ears4you107|Ears4you107]] ([[User talk:Ears4you107|talk]]) 17:48, 12 March 2021 (UTC)Ears4you107
+
8 {{c|+|Agree}} I agree with the others on this point, {{tl|Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.<br>
:See [[Team Fortress Wiki:Wiki Cap|this]] page for more information.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:54, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
+
9 {{c|-|Disagree}} See #8<br>
 
+
[[User:H20verdrive|H20verdrive]] ([[User talk:H20verdrive|talk]]) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
== Subclasses in the community strategy pages? ==
+
:I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:
 
+
:1. {{c|+|Agree}} Very good stuff.
I think some "subclasses" deviate a lot from the standard style of play (E.g. Ninjaneer) and have many different combinations of weapons that they can't be put inside of the weapon combo section without an unreasonably long paragraph next to it. Something similar perhaps to [[Community Demoman strategy#Demoknight|Demoknight]]?<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 16:34, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
+
:2. {{c|?|Abstain}} Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.
: I think that this should happen, there are definitely certain subclasses such as: the "Ninjaneer", or the Trolldier..., all of these subclasses deviate significantly from there original class, so giving them they're own sunsection in the community strategy for them is justifiable?[[User:Lolimsogreat21|Lolimsogreat21]] ([[User talk:Lolimsogreat21|talk]]) 16:51, 20 March 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21
+
:3. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.
: {{c|support}} I also like this idea. [[User:Kestrelguy|Kestrelguy]] ([[User talk:Kestrelguy|talk]]) 22:17, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
+
:4. {{c|+|Agree}} Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.
 
+
:5. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} Seems alright.
== Do we do anything for April Fools? ==
+
:6. {{c|?|Abstain}} It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.
 
+
:7. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.
Like maybe changing all the text to the comic sans font and changing the logo to a horribly made recreation in ms paint?
+
:8. {{c|+|Agree}} Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.
[[User:Danimations|Danimations]] ([[User talk:Danimations|talk]]) 18:51, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
+
:9. {{c|-|Weak Disagree}} As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.
:We did that back in 2019, actually. See [[TFW:April Fools' Day/2019/Main Page]]. You may take a look at [[User:GrampaSwood/AprilFools2021]] for further details on our latest preparations. We do have some behind-the-scenes changes in the works, but that won't be revealed to the public until release. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 19:12, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
+
:Overall, if I had to give a vote for the ''whole package'', {{c|+|Agree, with tweaking}}.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
That's even better then I expected it to be. [[User:Danimations|Danimations]] ([[User talk:Danimations|talk]]) 20:00, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
+
::Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 
+
:::Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:
== KoTH Slaughter? ==
+
{| class="wikitable"
 
 
Custom maps are a pretty tricky topic to cover, but would Slaughter be a good candidate for a page?
 
After all, it's what [[Laughter]] is based on and is favorable among players in Creators.tf.
 
[[User:ShadowMan44|ShadowMan44]] ([[User talk:ShadowMan44|talk]]) 00:40, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 
: Sure, if its Halloween map was already added in my opinion · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 02:59, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Weapons' Shot Type and Damage Type ==
 
 
 
In the recent zh-hans [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/zh-hans/Improvement_2021|project]], we solved multiple translation problems and improved translation accuracy of the zh-hans side of TF Wiki. A pretty big problem was found in this project by [[User_talk:ApertureLab]] and can not be solved only through that project, I reworded and rearranged them in English and put it here for discussion:
 
 
 
*All kind of Flame Throwers' Shot Type is currently "Particle", but the [[Projectiles]] page have a "Flames" sections. Flame Throwers indeed throws "particles" but technically they are just "Projectiles". The Shot Type of all Flame Throwers should be changed to "Projectiles".
 
 
 
*[[Short Circuit]]'s Primary Fire Shot Type is listed "Area of Effect", which is false, it is actually "Hitscan" but with limited range.
 
 
 
*Short Circuit's Secondary Fire Damage type is "Projectiles", which is false. "Projectiles" is not Damage Type, it is Short Circuit's Shot Type. And this leads to a bigger problem: Short Circuit is a dual Shot Type weapon, it is both "Projectiles" and "Area of Effect". Is there anything look alike? Flames from Flame Throwers? Rockets from Rocket Launcher? Furthermore, in the [[Projectiles]] page there is a "List of projectiles"; The Short Circuit's Secondary Fire electricity orb is not included in the list, and it should be.
 
 
 
*Along with the above questions, we do not have a page that talks about the whole thing of "Area of Effect". The [[Mad Milk]], [[Gas Passer]] and [[Jarate]] all has a "Area of Effect" Effect. The baubles from [[Wrap Assassin]] can also deal "Area of Effect" damage. And heck, What about the [[Compression blast]]? It is also a kind of "Area of Effect" but with limited angles. Also the explosion of Rockets from Rocket Launchers that can deal "Area of Effect" splash damage. Maybe some taunts can deal "Area of Effect" damage like [[Gas Blast]]. We don't have a "Area of Effect" page that talks about their affect range or "How big exactly is the area of 'Area of Effect'?", their effects or "Is there any difference about the Rocket explosion and Sticky explosion?", and things like effect fall-off factors of different "Area of Effect", etc.
 
 
 
I have a extra question:
 
 
 
* [[Flying Guillotine]] have a "Untyped" Damage Type. What is it exactly? Isn't it like [[Sandman]]'s baseball that cause 0 damage and just gives effects? Why the obvious ranged baseball is listed in "Ranged or Melee damage?" as "Melee" damage?
 
 
 
These are some serious problems that can take significant amount of times to fix and affects lots of the weapons pages. For reference, I put a list of all Shot Types and Damage Types currently used in the TF Wiki here:
 
 
 
{| class="wikitable grid"
 
 
|-
 
|-
! Shot Types
+
| Suggestion 1 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''7''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
! Example Page
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Projectile
+
| Suggestion 2 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''7''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
| [[Rocket Launcher]]
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Hitscan
+
| Suggestion 3 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''9''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
| [[Shotgun]]
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Melee
+
| Suggestion 4 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''10''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''0'''
| [[Bat]]
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Impact
+
| Suggestion 5 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''4''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''4''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
| [[Thermal Thruster]]
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Untyped
+
| Suggestion 6 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''4''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}:  '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''4'''
| [[Flying Guillotine]]
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Area of effect
+
| Suggestion 7 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''8''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
| [[Huo-Long Heater]]
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Particle
+
| Suggestion 8 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''8''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
| [[Flame Thrower]]
 
|}
 
 
 
 
 
{| class="wikitable grid"
 
 
|-
 
|-
! Damage Types
+
| Suggestion 9 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''2''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''3''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''4'''
! Example Page
 
|-
 
| Bullet
 
| [[Shotgun]]
 
|-
 
| Explosive
 
| [[Rocket Launcher]]
 
|-
 
| Fire
 
| [[Flame Thrower]]
 
|-
 
| Dual-type (fire and bullet)
 
| [[Flare Gun]]
 
|-
 
| Projectile
 
| [[Short Circuit]]
 
|-
 
| Falling
 
| [[Thermal Thruster]]
 
 
|}
 
|}
 +
My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
 +
== Userbox, and creator page ==
  
----
+
Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 17:33, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Add Falling to the Damage Types list, fix typos. [[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 02:44, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: I'm just going to paste what I said in IRC here: as far as I recall this is a problem we've had in english even and I'm not personally sure how to deal with it. Especially because I'm more code oriented and don't do loc. There's not much we can do about it besides try to be contextually appropriate when discussing engine-behavior versus user-facing behavior. (i.e. when dealing with users, you want to describe particle effects that behave as projectiles as projectiles, and use the full technical term when dealing with documentation relating to Source). Sorry if I'm not understanding the issue fully. I saw someone note this in IRC and was annoyed no one else responded. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 22:30, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
 
 
:Maybe we should do this:
 
*Make a clear line on the damage caused by the "weapon" itself and the "projectile from the weapon":
 
:*If the weapon itself causes damage, like hitscan, melee, impact, don't change "Damage and function times" template.
 
:*If the projectile from the weapon causes damage, break the template to 2 parts:
 
::*The weapon itself part: Shot type is projectile, and include the projectile it shoot, the initial speed, the attack interval and reload time etc.
 
::*The projectile part: The damage type, the damage it causes, the area of effect it causes, maybe the effect it give.
 
::*Here are some concepts:[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:AlexT/Sandbox&oldid=3004997]
 
*If we doing above, then most of the problem can be solved easily:
 
:*No more Flame Throwers' problem. Flame Throwers' Shot type will be Projectile, and the damage type of the Projectile "fire particle" will be Fire.
 
:*Short Circuit's Primary Fire Shot Type is "Hitscan" but with very limited range.
 
:*Short Circuit's Secondary Fire Shot Type is "Projectiles". The damage type of the Projectile "electricity orb" will be something to discover, the "electricity orb" has an Area of Effect to destroy some Projectiles.
 
:*All other projectile weapons can be listed the same way as above: Cleaver from Flying Guillotine, Baseball from Sandman etc.
 
*A "Area of Effect" Page is something still need to be discussed. Do we really need it?
 
--[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 05:52, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Updated the concept link. If this solution is OK, maybe I can make a new template and replace the [[Template:Damage table]] in all the pages.--[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 06:08, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Again really testing the limits of my specialization here. But I *personally* like the concepts. So long as we make sure to verify that it's in line with the actual behavior. Also we'll want to make sure to standardize it so that the damage / particle types match how many of each there are in the engine. As far as AoE goes. I'm not sure what would go on such a page. Valve's own docs don't even go into that much detail on projectiles (or [https://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?search=tf+projectile+&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 much detail at all really], which is annoying). Keep in mind though the sort of behavior being documented is super-subtle and very often irrelevant to the user.
 
::: Before trying to add a whole new system of categorization, I'd suggest first making sure there's no way to localize this stuff such that it fits your lang taking into account that developers tend to make puns and informal language in engine code/docs. I sure as heck appreciate the desire to be precise, but we're not doing technical documentation on the related pages. It's okay for example if there's a degree of ambiguity for what "particles" mean as related to the game-development concept versus "particles and debris from fire" sort of particle. Because as far as the **end user** - who is the main reading audience of the wiki - is concerned. Particles mean the visual effects from the game model. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 11:19, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
 
:::: On the [[Fire]] page, the "particle" is the name for the projectile produced by flamethrowers, and the visual effects is not connected to it directly. This can be easily observed by using {{cvar|sv_cheats}} and {{cvar|tf_debug_flamethrower}} commands. For end users of this wiki, these are just '''not''' the same thing. And I do know that on VDC the flame entity uses a different name called tf_flame which is different from the other projectiles entities; however, just as you say, the end users of this wiki, which I think are common players, will still feel the flame particles are similar to the traditional projectiles. [[User:ApertureLab|ApertureLab]] ([[User talk:ApertureLab|talk]]) 15:05, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: to make things more complicated, check out the patch notes for the {{Patch name|10|14|2021}}. specifically, the third change for [[Erebus]]: "Changed damage type from shock to bullet in underworld." I don't know what to derive from this. [[User:Kestrelguy|Kestrelguy]] ([[User talk:Kestrelguy|talk]]) 00:57, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 
::Please don't use quotation on talk pages, it messes up the layout of the rest of the page. What this means is that the damage you receive in the underworld is affected by vulnerabilities and resistances. I.e. vaccinator bullet resistant means you take less damage.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 10:20, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== "Helpful overview" not fitting with the wiki ==
 
 
 
I've seen a good addition to the map articles: the helpful overviews. However, they look confusing and doesn't fit with the Wiki style in my opinion. So, i'm proposing using [https://comp.tf/wiki/Template:Map_locations this template] from comp.tf to the overviews, with some additions (color of the marker for specific locations, etc). Also, this will require some changes on these images (removing lines and replacing them with coloured areas only for bases and etc). This would need a change in the common.css page.<br>
 
[https://i.imgur.com/FIsmNPD.png This is an example of how it would look like] · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 02:45, 12 April 2021 (UTC)<br>
 
{{clear}}
 
 
 
:Dereko strongly support your idea, Ashe. The template would provide a better overview, also make it easier to apply changes. <br>
 
:The current way we present is not flexible at all (imagine one should remake and reupload an overview image only to make changes for one location).[[File:User Dereko Name.png|100px|link=User:Dereko]] 13:24, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 
::{{c|support}} Solid idea! I'll set some time aside and work on it sometime next month if this is what we're going with. I'll probably make some improvements to the visuals as well. Also, on a little side note, I'd advise you to link large images instead of embedding them into the page as it take up quite a lot of space and can be somewhat distracting. I'd suggest merging the two images together and link them as one. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 19:30, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 
:::{{c|oppose}} Come one man...I've spent the whole previous week just studying the layout of the maps, drawing the lines and making them as accurate as they could be and then uploading the images, categorizing them and finnaly inserting them into the article they were supposed to be in (And also adding  all the neccesary details which come with the image such as that peice of text next to the image which explains everything on the overview) Who now has the time to go back to those 70+ maps I just finished with and do the whole process again!? Look, I can understand that the overviews aren't...perfect. They look a bit...janky, but still, give them a try atleast and see how they work out insted of immidiently removing them after they're fresh out of my gallery. I think that they are quit fine, they show everything that needs to be shown, spawn locations and how they change, objectives, key locations and etc, and they are quit consistent too! Spawns are always marked in diagonal lines correlating to the teams colour, objectives are marked in coulurful circles and key locations are encirceled in white or red (depending on the background) doted lines which are marked by a number. This means that you can quickly find what your looking for. Looking for the location of the objective? Simply search for the coulered circles on the map. Want to know the position of each teams spawn and how they change? Red/Blue diagonal lines are all you need to keep an eye out and ignore the rest.Now, I might be a bit biased considering that these ''helpful overviews'' are my creations but still, I don't see anything seriously flawed about them. They are simple to understand and also simple to update. If someone wants to add another location to the map article, all they have to do would be to take the map overview with lines of that map, go to the ms paint with it, and add another series of white/red doted lines with a big number.[[User:Lolimsogreat21|Lolimsogreat21]] ([[User talk:Lolimsogreat21|talk]]) 22:22, 12 April 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21
 
:::: Dereko appreciates your good work, Lolimsogreat. But Dereko insists the flexibility is not so satisfactory. An easy way of editing shouldn't include off-site work, like editing and reuploading the image. Also, if there are other people who are willing to cooperate with you on this project, the style, line, colour combination of his/her image may be different with yours, which is not helpful to maintain the consistency between map pages.[[File:User Dereko Name.png|100px|link=User:Dereko]] 09:41, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 
::::: Thanks for appreciation, I do admit that these overviews aren't the most flexible ones in the world, and that having to "do offsite" work isn't very convenient. But one advantage that my types of Helpful overviews would have over the ones Ashe demonstrated would be reader friendliness. Lets take a look at on of my Helpful overviews, the Upward Helpful overview to be specific: [[File:Upward overview with lines.png|15px]] (Click on the small image to enlarge it.) As you can see, the '''C hut''' on Upward (or how Uncle Dane calls it: the shithouse) is marked by the number 16, now this is isn't shown here but on the actual Upward page there is a small line of text near the image which explains all the numbers, circles etc... Now, if a reader were to want to search for the C hut (shithouse) all he would have to would be to take a look at that line of text which is displayed next to the image, see under which number is the C hut listed (number 16 in this case), and then take a quick glance at the Upward overview itself and easily spot the number 16 standing out in its own encirciled area. Now, lets see how would '''Ashe's''' Helpful overview work out, In her overview, locations aren't marked by numbers which are encirceled by markers, but by "waypoints" which you have to hover over or click in order to display the name of the location they sit upon. Now, i do admit that marking the locations with waypoints makes it look a lot more "cleaner" and professional then using markers to mark the area in a rather crude and janky way I did it, but here is the problem with Ashes overview: If the Reader wants to see where is the position of an area he, mind you, '''has no idea about''', he would have to basically click on every single waypoint marker until he finds where the area he is searching for is. If the reader is lucky, the first marker he clicks on will display the area he is looking for, in this case, the C hut of Upward, however, if he is unlucky, he will need to go throughout the entire map, relentlessly clicking on '''every single marker''' until he finally finds that one marker which displays the area he is looking for...after wasting how much time exactly? Unlike in my overview where the reader simply needs to find a number which I always make sure to make as outstanding against the background as I can, in the Ashes overview, the Reader is forced to play a game of "treasure hunt" just so that he can find whatever he is looking for. Now I might be just exaggerating this problem, maybe the Reader being forced to put a bit more effort into finding what he desires isn't that big of a deal and is worth sacrificing "reader friendliness" for more flexibility but im still sure that the Ashes overview will lead to at least some users being frustrated or annoyed at having to torture there mouse 1 button and the finger which rest on it. This isn't too bad considering what we are getting in return with Ashe's overview (more flexibility and consequently more consistency) but the problems don't stop here. Another problem is that the Ashe's overview has no borders which mark the limits of the area, there's just a waypoint thus leaving the reader to decide where a location begins and where it ends, this can lead to a lot more serious issue of confusing the Reader who, mind you '''is using this overview in the first place because he doesn't know anything about that specific map and trusts the Helpful overview to help him and not confuse him even further'''. The way to fix this issue would be to add borders, but if you add borders to the Ashe's overview, do our overviews become even that much different? Look, im not saying that my overview is better, I can clearly see its problems, but neither is the overview made by Ashe any more perfect then mine. Now, we will have to decide, what to sacrfifice: Reader friendliness or Editor friendliness... <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Lolimsogreat21|Lolimsogreat21]]''' ([[User talk:Lolimsogreat21|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Lolimsogreat21|contribs]]) </small>
 
{{outdent|5}}
 
{{c|info}} To note it on here as well, comp.tf staff has previously given us permission to use this template and an example can be found on [[User:TidB/Map locations]] though the CSS for it isn't yet activated. Also, while colored markers could be a good idea for some cases, we could also just use the {{tl|tabs}} template to put all those markers on different pages. An example can be found on [[User:TidB/Community_strategy#Callouts]] (again, you need the custom CSS from the template page to display it at the moment) '''{ [[User:TidB|TidB]]''' | [[User_talk:TidB|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/TidB|c]]''' }''' 06:43, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 
: Alright, i wouldn't like to scrap entirely the work of Lolimsogreat, so i'm proposing this [https://i.imgur.com/aRk7xGb.png overview], that is a merge between the editor and the reader friendliness. It will require a bit more of work to implement. Now, for the border areas (that i think is a good idea), with more complex implement (maybe), [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EjZp2fOYxo this should happen]. It should overlap the image of the overview with the overview with lines · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 20:51, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 
::[[User:Lolimsogreat21|@Lolimsogreat21]] I can perfectly understand why this is upsetting to you, but please do not see this as an attempt to discard the work you've been doing so far — your contributions are appreciated and this has merely been brought to our attention after so long. Do note that this idea has been proposed before (as stated by TidB above) and was simply cast aside, until now. Now, I'll openly admit, that map overviews as well as competitive guides aren't exactly my area of expertise. However, I do see your points in regards to easier readability, but even so, some of these issues can be fixed or worked around. For instance, a fix for the 'treasure hunt game' as you described it as could be something as simple as adding a parameter which sets a number with the marker along with a color such as black/white for specific scenarios. We won't be able to add borders around specific areas as that would be too complex (circles would be possible, however) though one could argue that such markings be necessary in the first place. Being met with an image of all these markings, lines and whatnot could be overwhelming to some readers, and even somewhat 'intimidating', I guess you could say. Knowing the exact zones and limitations of an area is irrelevant; we should really just be focusing on displaying the locations of certain areas with most relevance, for the sake of simplicity. What Ashe just proposed is pretty much what I had in mind: It's simplistic and clean yet still somewhat retain the current style format. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 21:28, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 
:::Alright guys, you managed to get me on board with this idea. To be honest Ashe, I was sceptical of you finding the solution to the two previously mentioned problem i brought up, but you managed to did it. What you did is really good, not only does it solve the problem of borders but it also does a good job of making a compromise between reader friendliness and editor friendliness. And as hard as it is to admit, your work looks a lot better then my ms paint sposored map overviews. Only question now would be: How do you plan to implement this "interactive map overvies" in the Tf2 Wiki and how can i help with scrapping my... well, outdated work?[[User:Lolimsogreat21|Lolimsogreat21]] ([[User talk:Lolimsogreat21|talk]]) 21:43, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21
 
:::: How should we make these new helpful overviews? - [[User:Danimations|Danimations]] ([[User talk:Danimations|talk]]) 21:54, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 
:::::Well Dan, we two better get to learning on how to do what Ashe did because it seems to me that Microsoft Paint ain't gona cut it this time around :D [[User:Lolimsogreat21|Lolimsogreat21]] ([[User talk:Lolimsogreat21|talk]]) 22:58, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21
 
:::::: [[:Media:Engineer_yes02.wav|''Dan attempting to say "Ok"]] - [[User:Danimations|Danimations]] ([[User talk:Danimations|talk]]) 23:06, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 
:::::::[[User:Lolimsogreat21|@Lolimsogreat21]] The images will be deleted once they have been replaced. If you'd like, I can move them to your user space instead. You guys don't need to worry about the implementation process as I'll be taking care of that part since the styling need to be inserted into the wiki's global CSS, which only administrators can do. I'll start working on it by the end of the month or sometime next month and then report back once it's ready for use. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 20:00, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 
::::::::(In Demoman voice) Ay, thanks! hahaha :D. Anyway, thanks Wookipan for helping us by finding the way to insert these "Images" into the Wiki. Also, thanks for offering me help in moving my "old"  overviews to my user space but there's no need, I don't want them now that i realize how crappy they truly are. Also, no haste, you don't need to get the implementation process ready so fast, I first have to teach myself how to actually make map overviews the way Ashe did them, and then replace every single map overview with the new one which will take two months at least, (This is assuming that Ashe doesn't help me which would be weird since she kick started this New Helpful overview project by herself.) But thanks for the help and having understanding, I do admit that I aren't proud of my first discussion edit on this section, it just sounds like I was to bitter for there being a possibility that my work could be replaced by something else which turns out to be way better. Anyway, good night.[[User:Lolimsogreat21|Lolimsogreat21]] ([[User talk:Lolimsogreat21|talk]]) 21:02, 14 April 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21
 
 
 
{{outdent|8}} Sorry for the long wait, but I've now created the map overview template and added the global CSS. It is currently in [[User:Wookipan/Map overview|my user space]], and I've yet to do some more testing and improve the documentation before I'd consider it fully ready for public usage, and maybe add some more features. I'd also like to optimize the code sometime as it's quite clunky right now, but MediaWiki is not exactly making that an easy task with its limitations. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 23:21, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
 
: Hallelujah! The CSS implementation is finally done. Thank you very much Wookipan for the effort of yours, its greatly appreciated :D. The template looks amazing! [[User:Lolimsogreat21|Lolimsogreat21]] ([[User talk:Lolimsogreat21|talk]]) 08:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21
 
 
 
::Glad to hear it. Mind you, this wasn't just a simple CSS implementation, and coding the CSS was probably the easiest part I'd say. The template was actually a lot easier to make than I thought, but I still ended up spending almost an entire day on it, and yet it's still incomplete. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 19:51, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Number format for templates ==
 
 
 
I've seen a problem with number format in the templates, the number needs to be changed for every language the template needs and '''in their correct local format''', i.e. the decimal separator (e.g. "1.5" is 1.5 in english, and "1,5" in spanish). I've tried to create a template but i think is kinda complex for my understanding, so i looked in internet and [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NumberFormat there's a extension for mediawiki]. Wit this, it will be more editor-friendly, mainly for new editors · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 03:33, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Use {{tlx|Dec}}. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 05:10, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Improving pages that haven't been edited for years ==
 
 
 
'''I have seen many [[Items]] descriptions that are out of date (too many to say)'''
 
 
 
''Reasoning''
 
 
 
Like '''stat changes''' not added to the description and '''lack of detail''' and it will be up to everyone to really try to '''improve the quality''' of the descriptions of [[Items]] and improve the website
 
 
 
Furthermore a few subjects have been '''neglected and unedited''' for years and I would like to fix that
 
 
 
''Request''
 
 
 
So I would like to request to help improve the quality of page descriptions
 
 
 
''Final Message''
 
 
 
Thank you
 
 
 
Hoping the best for the longevity of the wiki,
 
 
 
[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:CodingIsFun CodingIsFun]
 
 
 
== Donor medals and Category:Tournament Medal images ==
 
 
 
Should images of donor medals for charity tournaments (such as [[Tournament_Medal_-_Heals_for_Reals]]) be included in Category:Tournament Medal images or not? [[User:Memayz|Memayz]] ([[User talk:Memayz|talk]]) 17:46, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 
:I think so, yeah, it might be an idea to make a "Medal images" category and turn that into a subcategory and add "Charity medals" to it. If you wanna link to categories btw do it like this <nowiki>[[:Category:Tournament Medal images]]</nowiki>.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 18:20, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 
::Got it. [[:Category:Medal images]] already exists, so adding a sub-category won't be too hard. The question is now if the charity medal images should be categorized as both tournament ''and'' charity medal images? [[User:Memayz|Memayz]] ([[User talk:Memayz|talk]]) 18:27, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 
:::Just charity.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 18:29, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== See ya'll ==
 
 
 
Been fun contributing while it lasted, it's weird how there's no way to deactivate your account.
 
[[User:ShadowMan44|ShadowMan44]] ([[User talk:ShadowMan44|talk]]) 23:10, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 
: Goodbye, Pardner. I wish you luck and a merry life.
 
[[User:Lolimsogreat21|Lolimsogreat21]] ([[User talk:Lolimsogreat21|talk]]) 09:41, 4 July 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21
 
 
 
== Random questions regarding the Wiki ==
 
 
 
I have a couple questions regarding the wiki:
 
# With the [[:Template:Steamid]] template in Item infoboxes, should there only be a profile ID, or should there be a set name for each creator? From what I've seen, some pages have only the ID as a parameter, others have and ID and a name. Personally, it seems like having WindBOT update the names seems ripe for abuse by scrupulous creators seeking to put inappropriate names onto the TF2 Wiki.
 
# When tournament medal pages only have one medal, is a tabs gallery really necessary? Would it be sufficient to just have a normal gallery like cosmetic pages do? ([[Asymmetric Accolade|Example of a page which could have just a gallery]])
 
# Some tournament medal (and other pages) seem to have [[:Template:clr]] placed in place where it wouldn't make sense, though I'm wondering if there happens to be a reason I'm not aware of.
 
#*[[Asymmetric Accolade#Gallery|Example 1]]
 
#* [[List_of_game_modes#Domination_Control_Point|Example 2; other game modes with only one map do not have clr on the same page]]
 
[[User:Memayz|Memayz]] ([[User talk:Memayz|talk]]) 00:53, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 
:: [[Template:clr]] separates two floating elements. Just preview how it would look without clr in the example 2: In the example 1 however, not sure why it is there.
 
:: In order to keep consistency, it would be better to keep tabs gallery only in tournament and community medals pages · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 01:35, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 
:::I appreciate your input, I look forward to see what others think. I think page consistency is important, but in edge cases where only one medal is displayed, I personally think a regular gallery looks much better. [[User:Memayz|Memayz]] ([[User talk:Memayz|talk]]) 03:12, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== "Disambiguation" for names of weapons used in several languages ==
 
I propose this kind of "template" for redirects that are used in more than 1 language.
 
 
 
'''El nombre que estás buscando es usado en varios idiomas. Por favor, selecciona el idioma del artículo que desea ver.'''
 
 
 
'''O nome que você está procurando é usado em vários idiomas. Selecione o idioma do artigo que deseja visualizar. ''' (USED GOOGLE TRANSLATE)
 
 
 
''TRANSLATED: The name you are looking at is used in several languages. Please select the language of the article you wish to see.''
 
:*[[Air Strike/es|Español]] (Spanish)
 
:*[[Air Strike/pt-br|Português do Brasil]] (Portuguese of Brazil)
 
 
 
· [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 22:03, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Unfortunately, language support was an afterthought. While it's allowed, creating language redirects is a bit troublesome. It confuses users and (translated) names change way more often than English.
 
: Take this search for example: [https://i.imgur.com/9dXnvZi.png 9dXnvZi.png] - They are perfectly valid for Portuguese, Brazilian Portuguese and  Spanish. I speak Brazilian Portuguese, so the expected behavior is a  pt-br redirect, but they're all for Spanish pages.
 
: I personally dislike and disagree with this suggestion because it  clutters the search bar to the point of rendering it useless and unhelpful. Languages with different alphabets and writing systems (Russian, Chinese, Japanese and Korean) are the only ones that are able to make good use of this feature. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 22:21, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 
::Alright, i didn't consider the search bar, but my idea was for people that use the url bar for search articles, like {{botignore|https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Pistola}}. What did I proposed isn't a language redirect, is basiclly a disambiguation.
 
::In fact, if someone search via the search bar "Pistola" and opens the article [[Pistola]] expecting to find the article in his language, then he would see this disambiguation and would click in the article in his language · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 22:39, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== List of Self-Made item owners revival ==
 
 
 
The List of Self-Made item owners page, part of a [[:Template:Item_Lists_Nav|group of other lists]], was [[Talk:List_of_Self-Made_item_owners#Deletion|recently deleted]] outright for being too outdated and too much of a hassle to deal with. Before this, I started drafting a [[User:Boba/Selfmades|remake of the page]] on my userpage.
 
 
 
I would really like to see this page get remade, but the format has to change at least in some capacity. There's a few issues, and I'll list them along with possible solutions.
 
 
 
 
 
* '''ISSUE 1: There's way too much to document, and some of it changes a lot'''<br>
 
** Right now, you have to get backpack links for every single person and every single Self-Made item they hold. That's a lot to document.<br>
 
** An item's backpack link will change if the item's state is changed. This includes, but isn't limited to, things like changing the name or description, painting, or adding a killstreak effect.<br>
 
** Inventories can go private or unprivate at any moment.<br>
 
** This applies to [[:Template:Item_Lists_Nav|every list]], as well.<br><br>
 
 
 
'''SUGGESTED CHANGE:'''<br>
 
Remove the backpack link section altogether. It feels like way too much of a hassle and not many people come to check them out anyway.<br><br>
 
 
 
* '''ISSUE 2: The page is too big, loading and saving changes takes too long'''<br>
 
** Due to the page's size, even in the currently incomplete state that [[User:Boba/Selfmades|my remake]] is in, takes long to load and to save changes when editing.<br>
 
** This will become even more of an issue as updates to the page go on.<br><br>
 
 
 
'''SUGGESTED CHANGE:'''<br>
 
Split the list into multiple pages. This is necessary at this point, considering my remake hasn't even passed the 2012s yet. There's multiple ways we could split it. Currently, the list is everyone in one page, in order of when they first had an item added into the game. This means there's no duplicate entries of people. There's a few ways we could split it up:<br>
 
* Alphabetically (No duplicate entries, could still be a lot to handle)<br>
 
* By year (Duplicate entries, would be easier to handle)<br>
 
* By update (Duplicate entries, not recommended as [[Dr. Whoa|some]] [[Nine-Pipe Problem|items]] were added in completely random patches)
 
 
 
 
 
Me and a lot of others would like to see this page alive and updated. I want that to be done as efficiently as possible. Please discuss. ~ [[User:Boba|Boba]] 19:50, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:The rework of the list documenting the self made item owners was a long time coming, its very nice to see someone taking the initiative. I think that the idea of sorting it by year is the best one out of the three given, at least I would say so...Anyway, I'm quit busy right now, but I would certainly like to help you with that project of yours. Care to give instructions? [[User:Lolimsogreat21|Lolimsogreat21]] ([[User talk:Lolimsogreat21|talk]]) 20:23, 10 July 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21
 
 
 
::Right now, I just need a general idea of what should be done here. I'm waiting for more people to reply. Thanks though, I'll let you know. ~ [[User:Boba|Boba]] 20:44, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: I have considered a lot of possibilities, including the ones you suggested above, before accepting the delete proposal. The page barely had any traffic, it just wasn't worth it.
 
::: First things first: Why should we restore this list? Apart from being outdated, the page was deleted because it was useless and because there are dedicated websites for item lists out there, such as tf2tools.net. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 21:41, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::First off: by that logic, all the other item list pages should be removed as well. TF2Tools chugs far behind by months, sometimes provides incorrect dates, and even just skips certain people entirely (you'll especially notice that with the few recent updates, there's quite a few people missing). There’s no doubt that the low traffic of the page was in no small part due to how outdated it was. I genuinely believe this page can still be salvaged. If all the other lists should stay up, which I believe they should, then this should come back up as well. The point of the TFWiki is to be a one-stop-shop for all TF information, rather than just being a hub to point you to other sites which can't be as reliable. I have the intention to spearhead this and get it to a point where it will never become as outdated as it was again. I’d need others, including the staff, to back me on this. The majority of the technical work is already done - I remember you specifically even helped me with building up the template it uses to make it more suited for the rework. All it needs is approval and a decision on what to do in terms of the issues, and then I can chip away at it until it’s done. With that being said, I want people to contribute to this discussion giving their opinions on what should be done with both the backpack links and splitting up the page. ~ [[User:Boba|Boba]] 22:41, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: I accepted the delete request because it wasn't useful and a burden to update. I still fail to see a reason to keep and maintain such a page, especially considering its low access rate, ever-increasing size and lack of proper maintenance in the past. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 03:27, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::::All of the issues you've just mentioned would be fixed with this rework, and I've even said so before. I'm sorry you view it that way. The very least you could do is give the feedback that I requested. ~ [[User:Boba|Boba]] 04:58, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:It's good to know that someone is fixing these. Personally, I support remove the backpack link section and change them all to alphabetically sorted. I do check these pages sometimes, but it's more of just for fun like just to see "who contributed the most?"<br> From the readers' view, what's their purpose to visit these list? If I have to actually to find who made the item, I could just open that item's page and there's contributors list in the page. If I have to find the person's all contributions, I know their name and I could easily find the person in the alphabetically sorted list. Break them into year or update could make doing these more harder because you have to figure out the which year or update first.<br>With that said, what about the {{tlx|Backpack Item Link}} in most of the item pages? They also contains backpack IDs, It's painful to update these and you have to do it in all the languages' pages. Do we have to also remove the backpack IDs from it? or is it possible to somehow merge them, like make a dictionary or "database", so the item page can automatically read the contributors from there, and all the item list also read the data from there? --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 03:49, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::You bring up some good points, but by that logic things like the [[List of Electric Badge-aloo owners]] should be removed as well, because the [[Electric Badge-aloo]] has all of the contributors on the workshop page.
 
::{{tlx|Backpack Item Link}} is simply just an easy way to display backpack links and nothing more. It will not automatically update when backpack links inevitably get updated. ~ [[User:Boba|Boba]] 04:58, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::As you said above "The point of the TFWiki is to be a one-stop-shop for all TF information", pages like "List of Electric Badge-aloo owners" could still exist so people know who has that item. Maybe there's situation that a contributor listed on steam workshop did't get the item? Or someone not listed on steam workshop contributor list get the item too? <br>Oops it looks like that breaks what I said above, you can't reliably find the contributors from the item owners list. How the lists is gonna be sorted is down to what purpose people visit these lists. Since these lists are owners of special items, people will more likely want to know 'who' owns one items' self-made version from this lists, then sort from the items' name instead of contributors' name alphabetically may be better (and also solves problem of contributors changing their name and mess up the list). --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 07:31, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== some template use italic to indicate title name is wrong in some language ==
 
 
 
Meet the team video is linked in every classes' nav template, such as ''[[Meet the Medic]]'' in the [[Template:Medic_Nav]]. It uses italic to indicate the title name of a video.
 
 
 
In Simplified Chinese, however, uses “Guillemet” or “double angle brackets” to indicate the title of a book, video, article, song. Use italic to indicate these things in Simplified Chinese is wrong. Many other language uses different way to indicate similar things too.
 
 
 
{{c|+|''Meet the Medic''}}<br>
 
{{c|-|''拜见医生''}}<br>
 
{{c|+|《拜见医生》}}
 
 
 
Should we make a template that can display appropriate marks depends on language in these places? Or such template already exists in this Wiki? Or should we just fix them by using {{tlx|lang}} in every template that have such issue?
 
 
 
--[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 10:02, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 
:Seems like a template similar to {{tl|dec}} is sufficient.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 10:17, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 
::[[Template:Title|Made a template]], I only added support for zh-hans and zh-hant, By the way, I'm not sure if other language follows the same rule, what if one language uses different punctuation to indicate book title and video title?--[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 11:16, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Translated meet the team videos ==
 
 
 
So recently I noticed some pages use an unofficially translated (subtitled, not dubbed) video on their meet the team videos. I recently changed this, however I thought it may be possible to replace this with a video on the wiki channel that has subtitles for several different languages (All taken from the transcript on the pages, for example). For any users that we do have that speak the language, they could verify it. Not sure how the other languages could be done (Perhaps STS could assist, not sure if they want to though). This seems like a way better option than replacing them with unknown people's translations.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:35, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: {{c|+|Support}} ~ [[User:Boba|Boba]] 18:23, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
 
:: {{c|+|Support}} · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 18:36, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
 
: {{c|?|Sounds great}}. Maybe we should only add the languages that someone verified, and leave others until someone did so. Looks like a pretty big project there.--[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 03:11, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 
: {{c|+|Support}} Dereko supports, with concern that how we will execute it in terms of action. For Simplified Chinese, translated videos (which are qualified in my perspective) from personal channels have been inserted on video pages since resources from Bilibili became available, for the cause that those videos have never been officially uploaded on Bilibili. Of course the only "official" for the trailers should be those who originally created them, but inserting videos translated and uploaded by us still means something -
 
:What I am more worried about is the example brought by the use of personal sources, which may produce unwanted results without proper principle. Thus, translated videos uploaded by Wiki channel may not provide more help to viewers, at least for most Chinese players, but it will make a lot of sense for our content management. [[File:User Dereko Name.png|100px|link=User:Dereko]] 10:01, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Unused content policy ==
 
 
 
Should there be an unused policy content? I personally think content that wasn't publicly released by Valve, or at some point available through TF2's files, should not be hosted on the wiki. It's very hard to verify that these are actually legit without directly linking to the hosted stuff itself which Eric Smith has said should not be done. An exception for this is referencing the recent 2020 code leak, as we've also gotten permission to say "This is from the 2020 code leak" (but nothing else).<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 18:10, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 
: {{c|+|Support}} code snippets, leaked models, etc. should not be allowed. ~ [[User:Boba|Boba]] 18:12, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 
: {{c|-|Strongly oppose}} It should stay, and you should provide proof of that email with Eric S. The content is verifiable and has patch date information for when it was found and added. The reslist stuff was recently found to be added when cp_degrootkeep was for example. It's literally not hard at all to verify this stuff. Just because you two have some predisposition against a user that doesn't edit here anymore (but does write up edits for me to make on his behalf, yes I saw your not so sneaky tfwiki-staff discussion) doesn't mean an entire subsection of already well-documented and verified info should be removed. Grow up. [[User:Thefixer2021|Thefixer2021]] ([[User talk:Thefixer2021|talk]]) 18:16, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 
::No need for the aggressiveness and this is nothing against 404, however, this is ban evasion. [https://i.imgur.com/kSReV3D.png Eric mail], it wasn't a sneaky discussion either because it is a publicly logged channel.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 18:22, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 
:::This only covers leaked source code, the June Build is a leaked pre-release build, as such it would not fall under these restrictions [[User:K1ngD3D3D3|K1ngD3D3D3]] ([[User talk:K1ngD3D3D3|talk]]) 18:28, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 
:::No aggressiveness intended. Intonation is impossible to get through text alone, mind. And I fail to see how having someone else write edits and pass them on to me is ban evasion. I was not the one banned. The logic fails. [[User:Thefixer2021|Thefixer2021]] ([[User talk:Thefixer2021|talk]]) 18:27, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 
::::Are you sure 404UNF is coming to ''you'' to make edits here? Because from his contributions on TCRF, it sounds like ''you came to him'' to make edits. Your story's logic fails. ~ [[User:Boba|Boba]] 18:33, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 
:::::Most of the stuff that Thefixer2021 was posting is coming from TCRF which is a site that documents cut content in video games, unfortunately, most of the TF2 articles are written by 404UNF. [[User:K1ngD3D3D3|K1ngD3D3D3]] ([[User talk:K1ngD3D3D3|talk]]) 18:35, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 
:: Following the original thought on this chain -- a leaked model (to use a concrete example) feels very similar to leaked source code. Sure, it's not text and can't be opened by a simple program, but it's just data that was extracted from the game.
 
:: If it enriches our understanding of the game (e.g. by shedding light on design decisions or showing the development of a map) then I feel that it has a place on this wiki. However, much like the guidance we have on leaked source code, the content should not be hosted on this wiki.
 
:: Also, much like content that is readily accessible in the game, this wiki is not trying to re-host all of the game's content. In my opinion, cut or unused content is no different from regular content in that regard: it should not be uploaded "just because we have it".
 
:: Regardless of our decision, I think we should have a TFW: page documenting the policy (TFW:Unused Content Policy sounds good to me), and also a template which we can use when citing said content (that links back to our decision).
 
:: [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:14, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: {{c|-|Strongly oppose}} This shouldn't apply to builds which have game assets such as the June 2007 build, it was leaked after the 2020 code leak and the email, and should not fall under these restrictions. The email only mentions code assets cannot be posted. [[User:K1ngD3D3D3|K1ngD3D3D3]] ([[User talk:K1ngD3D3D3|talk]]) 19:23, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 
:: Damm, this discussion quickly derailed into something ''not quit related to unused content''.
 
:: [[User:Lolimsogreat21|Lolimsogreat21]] ([[User talk:Lolimsogreat21|talk]]) 19:34, 4 August 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21
 
::This applies to anything that is not released by Valve itself or not accessible through the in-game files (Old or new). The e-mail did not specifically mention anything else but it also goes without saying that this stuff that wasn't put out by Valve shouldn't be here. Unless Valve specifically mentions it's allowed to be posted here and to what extent, it should not be hosted or linked to in any way here (and anything that is on the wiki that falls under this should be removed).<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 19:36, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
This is derailing the discussion, if either of you want to continue this I'll gladly do so on my own talk page. But keep this on-topic. I'll open up a [[User talk:GrampaSwood#TFW:Discussion continuation|topic there]].<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 18:35, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: I wish to have some clarification. Just what is "unused content" in this question?
 
:: * I first thought you were asking about [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Policies#Unreleased_content|unreleased content]]? (The more I think, no.)
 
:: * We have several [[:Category:Unused content]] pages about Valve's abandoned developmental content with its own [[Template:Unused Content Nav]]; these seem to be long acceptable to the wiki.
 
:: * Then there are the many unused content sections in serveral different types of articles:
 
::: * e.g., [[Botkiller_weapons#Unused_content]], [[Stahlhelm#Unused_content]], [[Engineer_taunts#Unused_content]], [[Mercenary_Park#Unused_content]], etc.
 
:: * You are probably not talking about [[:Category:Cut content]]; but, which has some overlap with [[:Category:Unused content]], and [[:Category:Beta and unused content]].
 
: To me, '''unused content''' has specifically meant content found in game files that are '''''not''''' present in any form of game play, regardless of the reason it it is not present in play. But from your openting sentence, you seem to mean something very different.
 
: Even so, such coverage of the above sorts of unused content hasn't been a problem, as far as I understand.
 
: Really, do you specifically mean Valve Intellectual Property that Valve did not publish with intent of making available to the Community under terms of use? '''''All''''' patched game content is Valve IP, but it is '''''published''''' IP. Even if it is in the published game files, it is published IP; even if [[:Category:Unused content|unused]]. It is '''''un'''''published IP if it is found in anything besides Valves intended publications, whether someone leaked images, video, memos, or source code, stole development configurations of game files, or snuck some phone video; each of these is broadly illegal, as I understand, as least in my business. 
 
 
 
: Would the term '''non-free content''' be useful here? We have applicable policy on that.[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_Wiki:Licensing_images#Free_content]
 
 
 
: '''''However''''', whether or not any unused content of any particular type, fair or illegal, is covered as a topics in their own right is ''completely separate'' from the [[Dustbowl#Early_Development|question of using published or unpublished material (especially unfree material)]] to [[Speculation|speculate]] about the [[Prerelease|''pre-release'' development history]] and the [[obvious]] fact that maps change in during development, and listing any evidence (published or leaked) of such changes is essentially [[XofY]]. This could be a separate discussion.
 
 
 
: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Mikado282|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Mikado282|contribs]])</small> ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 04:18, 5 August 2021 (UTC) 13:14, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
 
::It would really be any kind of content, unused content is just the broad name of anything that has gone unused in the game. This includes unused content in the game's files, hence why I made the separation for content that is, or has at some point been, in the game's files. Unused content such as unused voicelines that remain in the files are therefore perfectly okay to use. Content that has been gathered from a build of the game from 2005 (for example) would not be okay to use, because it's content that Valve did not intend to get out. Unless Valve says so otherwise, any of such content should not be hosted on a Valve-endorsed space.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 13:22, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
 
:::{{c|+|Agreed}} ^^ with this last statement ^^ · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 20:29, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Mikado has got the right idea. The primary concern about leaked content here is that hosting licensed, '''private''' (non-free) source code and/or assets are essentially a form of redistribution of paid software and/or to publish a '''trade secret''', both of which are considered an illegal act, and Valve could take legal action if they deemed it necessary. Yes, unused/unreleased content that '''exist in the game files''' are fine to document, and beta content should be fine as well, so long as it is under ''published'' IP. The TF2 source code '''''is''''' a trade secret, and we've only been permitted to reference it, as cited by Eric S. in that email.  [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 21:24, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 
:::I agree with Wookipan (and therefore, with Mikado). As much as I love unused content, it's not supposed to be here. This is the '''official''' TF2 Wiki, afterall. This Wiki is also hosted by Valve themselves (as far as I know), leaked content should be (and '''is''') a big no-no. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:24, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: {{c|neutral|Switzerland}} Sorry for being neutral here but my open source bias is known and incompatible. I will say that Valve expects us to document as fans are wont to do. And they only ever say what is required to mitigate their legal risk and therefore profit. My opinion before has been more or less that we should abide by their requests in good faith, but don't go overboard to make them happy. They pay lawyers to figure out exactly how to mitigate their legal risk about these things while also staying sane in their instructions to us. My personal view on it is: Documenting historical content is important and useful. So long as we can verify that it came from the game itself and was in fact in the dev pipeline at some stage. Can't staff hold a quick consensus meeting on such things to cleanroom verify that the content does exist and in the game? It's the usual wiki-thing to do. Valve themselves probably appreciate it too. Or at least they damn well better unless they don't like keeping memory of their own accomplishments and growth. Like some kinda dweebs. *looks pointedly at no one in particular* -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 05:58, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
(Forgive the not voting because I have trouble parsing the proposal.) About the time I encountered a moose on the trail (OK, maybe it was miles and maybe a day before I was within a few meters of a momma moose ''and her calf'') I think I figured out what Grampa Swood was after. As far as I understand this, under the broad term of "Unused content", there is content that is acceptable for use in the wiki (typically publicly accessable in the Patched game files) and there is content that is not acceptable, but this distinction is not clearly defined in our policy. We ''do'' have relevant policies on the subject, but because these policies are on narrower focus pages, the edit-lawyer may claim that they don't apply to such-and-such. For example: 
 
* Image policies describe exclusion of non-free images, but the same rules should apply to all uploaded content.
 
* Trivia policies expressly exclude speculation; but, generally all of this wiki should avoid speculation.
 
* [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Policies#Unreleased_content|Unreleased content policy]] / [[prerelease]] content is already excluded from Cosmetics and Trivia. 
 
So, just carefully write the policy to define exclusion of non-free content, particularly everything and anything of Valve's IP that could never be accessed by users under either Premium or FTP license.
 
 
 
@Lagg: Wikipedia has something of open source underpinning AFAIK, but with the realization that assuming a fundamental right to self-ownership. So, if I may vamp, only the self may free what is self-owned; from which follows the concept that anyone may free what they own, but ''only'' what they own. I may free what is of ''my'' self, but I ''may not free'' anything that is of Lagg's self.
 
[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Mikado282|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Mikado282|contribs]])</small> ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 01:24, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:OK, but what should we do with [[Invasion]]? In fact, all the information, with the exception of concept arts, we have from a huge leak in October 2003. The developers mentioned this only in passing when they mentioned the creation of the TF2 style.
 
:[[User:MrPrisen|PrisonShift3r]] ([[User talk:MrPrisen|talk]]) 19:22, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: Interesting question. I've never really questioned the ancient page, but never really looked deep into it; it is enough for me to know that ''Invasion'' existed for a while, and, especially, that the particular appearances and personalities of the ''TF2'' classes originated in ''Invasion''.
 
:: We have established that leaked content may be referenced, but, I am concerned with the sparse sourcing and citation. I think it is possible to find and cite more developer comments.
 
:: My concern is about proper licensing on the images. The many class images that were copied from Valve's official ''TF2'' gallery are fine for us to use, but their description files probably don't correctly cite that attribution. Also, without researching in detail, I suspect some are screenshots of leaked content, which were are not supposed to use.
 
:: Perhaps you could invite [[User:Darkid|Darkid]] to comment.
 
:: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Mikado282|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Mikado282|contribs]])</small> ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 02:36, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Volunteers for First Cloakening(TM) now accepted ==
 
 
 
I don't want to put anything on the IRC channel page until I know what actually happens once I send Libera staff a cloak request. I've never actually used a cloak myself despite literal decades of IRC because I like my domain. So kind of new to this bit.
 
 
 
If anyone wants a cloak (the thingy that makes it so you have <code>tfwiki/editor/lagg</code> instead of your IP address) put me the name you want here. Try to keep it close to the wiki name since that's the whole spirit of project-namespaced cloaks. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 06:34, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 
:I volunteer as tribute -- how about <code>darkid</code>? [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:28, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 
:I volunteer as the most active TF Wiki contributor atm, name <code>tidb</code> '''{ [[User:TidB|TidB]]''' | [[User_talk:TidB|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/TidB|c]]''' }''' 14:51, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 
: Sent and [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:IRC#Cloaks|IRC]] / [[Team_Fortress_Wiki_talk:IRC#Cloak_request_list|cloak request sections]] restored. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 15:02, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 
:I volunteer as the man who "lives and breathes the wiki" (Quote I saw in a Discord once), name <code>grampaswood</code>.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 15:04, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Additional templates for punctuation ==
 
 
 
I would like to propose templates for opening parenthesis, closing parenthesis, and colon - something like <code><nowiki>{{op}}</nowiki></code>, <code><nowiki>{{cp}}</nowiki></code>, and <code><nowiki>{{colon}}</nowiki></code>, respectively.
 
 
 
Japanese, Simplified Chinese, and Traditional Chinese have their own characters for parenthesis and colon. While French uses the same characters, colons are isolated in sentences (unlike other languages that have it stuck to the end of the word right before it).
 
 
 
- [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 03:09, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 
:{{c|+|Agreed}}. Also, for example, "5 seconds" is «5秒» in japanese, without space, so {{code|<nowiki>{{space}}</nowiki>}} should exist too · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 03:26, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Combine parentheses templates to one could be easier to use, like {{tlx|Title}}. About a space template I don’t think that’s necessary. There’s not much place we could use that template, and most of time we could ignore that or could be manually fixed. --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 03:58, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Launch Options ==
 
I would like to elaborate on certain launch options so I have a request:
 
Would it be okay to start making pages '''dedicated''' to certain launch options like:
 
<pre style="color: black"> -insecure - Disable Valve Anti Cheat (VAC). </pre>
 
The ''insecure'' part would link to a page that would:
 
:: 1. Lead to a page about insecure mode
 
:: 2. Would provide helpful info on how to use it
 
:: 3. Have proper formatting and links
 
 
 
'''Can I create pages like these for people who want more info on something?'''
 
[[User:CodingIsFun|CodingIsFun]] ([[User talk:CodingIsFun|talk]]) 16:01, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 
:It sounds like they'd be very small pages that wouldn't really be worth all having an individual page.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 16:41, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 
::Could I still add pages that I definitely think need more detail?
 
::[[User:CodingIsFun|CodingIsFun]] ([[User talk:CodingIsFun|talk]]) 16:46, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 
:::The best thing would be to make the pages on your sandbox and then we can see how large the pages approx. are. However, that can lead to a lot of wasted effort if it turns out to be not worth it.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 16:52, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 
::::I'm relatively new to customising my account, how does a sandbox work? And how do I make custom pages on the sandbox?
 
::::[[User:CodingIsFun|CodingIsFun]] ([[User talk:CodingIsFun|talk]]) 17:02, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 
:::::Simply take your user page URL (https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:CodingIsFun), add a / and type whatever. For example, https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:CodingIsFun/Sandbox. Internal links work too, [[User:CodingIsFun/Sandbox]]. "Sandbox" can be anything, such as [[User:CodingIsFun/insecure]]. Just create the page on there, and that's a user space page.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:05, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 
::::::Can I turn that into real page once I'm done?
 
::::::[[User:CodingIsFun|CodingIsFun]] ([[User talk:CodingIsFun|talk]]) 17:34, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 
:::::::It's better to link them here once done so people can take a proper look at what the pages would look like. Like I said, it may result in wasted effort.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:46, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Creation of "Boss" category ==
 
 
 
I've been surfing through the pages for the Halloween map bosses, and I find it a bit weird that they're all labelled as "other" in categories instead of having their own dedicated category for bosses. Does anyone else feel like this would be necessary/helpful at all? [[User:GoodMudkip|GoodMudkip]] ([[User talk:GoodMudkip|talk]]) 16:05, 21 September 2021 (UTC)GoodMudkip
 
 
 
: {{pro}} Sure! Feel free to create it. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 17:25, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Thank you very much for the go-ahead. However, I'm still somewhat new here, and I don't know how to create a new catagory. Is there anywhere on here that I can look that will teach me how to make one? [[User:GoodMudkip|GoodMudkip]] ([[User talk:GoodMudkip|talk]]) 15:47, 22 September 2021 (UTC)GoodMudkip
 
:::Simply add [[:Category:Halloween boss]] to the appropriate pages, then go to [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Category:Halloween_boss this page] and simply create the page with something such as "A list of all ''Halloween bosses''".<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 15:52, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::Thanks for elaborating. I'll get right on it! [[User:GoodMudkip|GoodMudkip]] ([[User talk:GoodMudkip|talk]]) 16:23, 22 September 2021 (UTC)GoodMudkip
 
 
 
: In ancient times our pioneers established a category for this: [[:Category:Halloween bosses]], with boss articles you may want to edit included in its subcategories, thus a new category shouldn't be added. Dereko thanks you for pointing out this anyway. [[File:User Dereko Name.png|100px|link=User:Dereko]] 11:19, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: I totally missed that! Thanks for noticing it, Dereko. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 04:46, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Dereko´s plans to cleanup Halloween category ==
 
Based on findings from topic "[[#Creation of "Boss" category|Creation of "Boss" category]]", Dereko considers [[:Category:Halloween bosses]] a bloated template, as there are too many pages inside making it difficult to have a convenient search.
 
 
 
Dereko believes the source of the problem is that we have put a lot of articles into the main category and its sub categories at the same time, '''while doing so would make main category more swelling and subs less useful'''.
 
 
 
In light of this, Dereko suggests making a cleanup to the category, that is to keep those pages in sub categories only. For example, we could remove [[Cauldron]] from [[:Category:Halloween]] while keeping it in [[:Category:Halloween maps]].
 
 
 
If approved by people, when the school network conditions turn better, Dereko would be happy to handle the task as a valuable change to go practise <s>medicine</s> experience. [[File:User Dereko Name.png|100px|link=User:Dereko]] 11:56, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 
:Agreed, it's just a mess of collapsible categories.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 12:39, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: {{pro}} Let me know if you need any help. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 04:45, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Mobile Support ==
 
 
 
as anybody who's opened the wiki on mobile will notice, the wiki is... not well-suited to mobile browsing. there's a limit to how good it ''can'' be, but at the very least, we could implement something along the lines of what Wikipedia has.
 
I'm willing to personally put in the work to make this happen (though I doubt I'd be quick about it). thing is, I doubt I have the necessary permissions, and I don't ''really'' know where to start even if I do (though [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MobileFrontend] seems like a good bet). I guess I'm just starting a petition to get somebody to implement a mobile version of the wiki. [[User:Kestrelguy|Kestrelguy]] ([[User talk:Kestrelguy|talk]]) 15:09, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Maybe you should put your request at [[Team Fortress Wiki talk:Technical requests]]. --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 03:36, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: you're right. it just didn't occur to me. [[User:Kestrelguy|Kestrelguy]] ([[User talk:Kestrelguy|talk]]) 02:07, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Thanks for raising this issue. Mobile support is something I'd like to improve as well, but introducing new extensions is a challenge, partly because our server administrator is quite busy.
 
::: Until a proper extension is installed, we could implement a few CSS and JS changes to better accommodate mobile visitors. Assuming you are familiar with using the wiki on mobile, can you provide some examples of what works and what doesn't? We can't do a complete overhaul right now, but we can at least try to improve the experience.
 
::: Thanks! — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 04:59, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::Here are some suggestions I have:<br>1. Device without a mouse cannot see the information under the {{tlx|tooltip}}. TF Wiki uses this template in various places. Potential [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reference_Tooltips plugin] to fix this. <br>2. Left sidebar cannot be hidden and takes up huge screen space on small vertical screen. <br>3. Text/web content won't resize automatically on my iPhone with Safari. It shows the whole desktop style page with small content, you have to zoom in and constantly move the zoomed web page to see the contents. <br>--[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 14:14, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
 
::::: As Tark said, I don't think we're going to install any plugins, but we can definitely look into alternative sidebar styling, and fix <nowiki>{{tooltip}}</nowiki> -- both of these should be addressable with just CSS/JS. The overall page rendering (text size / mobile layout) is not something we can easily change without a large overhaul.
 
::::: [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 11:15, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 
:::::: That's at least something that will improve the experience on touchscreen tablets. I enjoy browsing the TF Wiki on my iPad, but there's <nowiki>{{tooltip}}</nowiki> in many charts, that the information under it is invisible without a mouse to hover on. Hope you could tap on it and do the same thing instead. Sidebar hiding is also useful in every vertical screen. Page resize is pretty critical to phone browsing, I don't like that mediawiki mobile plugin either, it changes almost everything and looks bad. Most of the people only browsing the Wiki on the mobile. I think some simple text auto resize, and picture or chart auto rearrange is enough for browsing the Wiki for now. --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 06:13, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: the sidebar isn't a huge problem for me on Android with Firefox, but the whole lack of page resizing is a problem for me, too. this also results in a lot of buttons that are too small for fingers to click on. I can't go to my watchlist, for example, without zooming in like 600%. [[User:Kestrelguy|Kestrelguy]] ([[User talk:Kestrelguy|talk]]) 01:03, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 
::I'll only say that I'm not a fan of Web 2.0/"modern" web design in general. Most sites' mobile forms are frankly trash or mediocre-at-best, and have an annoying aesthetic; often the mobile theme is ''slower'' than desktop (even when using a browser like Brave that stops ads etc.)! On Wikipedia itself I use an alternate theme for editing with a "vintage" (without looking primitive) aesthetic, since Wiki's mobile theme isn't ''terrible'' but is still kind of queasy and irritating. If TFWiki adopts a real mobile theme, please please please keep the "feel" of desktop mode, with all its sharp edges and shading, and don't over-simplify it. I promise I don't mean to sound abrasive, it's just sickening to see so many sites follow the leader of flabby rounded minimalism, when a mobile theme ought to inherit its philosophy from the source (desktop site structure).--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 01:25, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 
:::The "modern" design shouldn't matter tbh. Even TF2 has changed its design in the main menu. The TF2's 2012 main menu looks way different to the 2021's main menu for example · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 04:37, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 
:::I'm not a huge fun of the modern rounded design <s>that some modern programs force more and more</s> either. I fully support more mobile TF wiki support, however I do, also, wish the style was kept the same as desktop. I'd also like to add that I haven't really had a problem with the current mobile wiki and the buttons (even really small ones) are surprisingly clickable <s>I also main Sniper, so maybe I'm just accurate</s>.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 13:58, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== The wiki need's an update. ==
 
 
 
i know this can be a bit repeating subject, '''but when will our wiki get updates? eg dark mode, wikipedia style (more modern in my view.), what do we need to do to does this happen?'''
 
 
 
[[User:AuroraBorreal|MaxwellWagner]] ([[User talk:AuroraBorreal|talk]]) 14:08, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 
:If you'd like to request anything specific, try [[Team Fortress Wiki:Technical requests]]. I don't really see what needs updating on the wiki other than cache servers. The styling looks fine and nothing outdated about it, besides the mobile support which has already been discussed above.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 14:20, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Wikipedia Manual of Style and Hyperlinks as Section Headers ==
 
 
 
recently I happened to be reading Wikipedia's Manual of Style on hyperlinking, because I'm that sort of person. one element mentioned was that section headers should never be links when possible. instead, a "see also" or "main article" template should be used. this wiki follows that rule occasionally, but in some cases, such as "related achievements" sections, it breaks it with abandon.</br>
 
the Wikipedia Manual of Style is only relevant in the first place for two reasons. obviously, it sets a precedent for other wikis. additionally, though, [[Help:Contents]] says to check Wikipedia's Manual of Style "when in doubt." </br>
 
I suppose my question is, dœs this wiki intend to follow Wikipedia's Manual of Style? if it dœsn't, ''should'' it? [[User:Kestrelguy|Kestrelguy]] ([[User talk:Kestrelguy|talk]]) 16:06, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: I think we should follow Wikipedia's manual, yes. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 10:24, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Backpack Item Links ==
 
 
 
I don't think this has been discussed yet :P Almost all of the cosmetic pages use <nowiki>{{Backpack Item Link|steamid|itemid}}</nowiki> -an example: [[Classy Capper]], the 3rd contributor has their inventory set as private as I am writing this... if any of the contributors decide to private their profile/inventory, it doesn't update automatically and will likely take a while for someone to update. So, should we just use <nowiki>{{Steamid|x}}</nowiki>, like in the [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=746485790 Steam Workshop] (the links just lead to the profile)? This wouldn't require someone to update backpack links/change to <nowiki>{{Steamid}}</nowiki>, and would make the articles more -consistent-? In the other hand, it's something that could take a while/not worth to change. What's your opinion on this? Thanks :) [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 20:20, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Is it worth updating every existing article? No.
 
: Should we use this format from now on? Yes. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 20:28, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 
::Although I'd like to say, if people do general edits to pages (Like BrazilianNut does) it could be updated and with that slowly update them all.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 20:34, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 
:::Yeah, if we're going to change it, I'd recommend creating a new tracking category for it. That said, it is nice to have a direct link to the item... [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 21:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: While a direct link would be nice, it's pretty impossible to keep track of everyone's inventory by hand. Needless to say, the wiki is multilingual, so while English may be updated quite frequently,  most languages are forgotten.
 
:::: We could, in theory, scrape this data automagically and generate a dictionary with item ids. This would pretty much solve this issue, but I personally believe it's useless effort. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 22:59, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 
::::: I added the SteamID template to all the SF XIII cosmetic pages. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 00:17, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
 
:::::: Higly against removing bp links. Even if someone set their backpack or profile to private, then the link will still correctly redirect to the correct owner, the reader just won't be able to directly see the item in the backpack. There's no reason to remove them as this happens rather rarely and even if so it still fills its purpose. Also, anyone can just change bp link to steamid if they want, but again, its not necesarry. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 07:39, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::::I agree with Denied. I don't see a point in changing this format if it works with both public and private backpacks. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 08:54, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::::::: The main concern here is that people can modify their items (changing their ids) or private their backpacks and both yield the same result: an useless link.
 
:::::::: As much as I'd like a better solution, we don't have the manpower to keep them up to date. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 20:25, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
{{outdent|8}} {{c|+|Support}}. yes.... daddy likes.... ~ [[User:Boba|Boba]] 01:09, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: {{c|keep}}. We are going to continue using {{tlx|Backpack Item Link|steamid|itemid}}. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 17:40, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Changes to the wiki design to be more compatible with dark mode ==
 
 
 
Due to the recent trend of "i want my app to have dark mode", the design the wiki has interferes with the "Dark mode" option that some browsers have (mainly Opera GX, but it is very probable that other browsers may want to add it too).<br>
 
Examples:<br>
 
[https://imgur.com/a/dpgkOwn Not edited, dark Main Page]<br>
 
[https://imgur.com/a/qyIuCMG Not edited, dark random weapon page]<br>
 
Also, the current color of the body is [https://imgur.com/a/BilmhP7 too white]<br>
 
I propose: 1. Change the '''default''' design to have less gradients (which is done by using some images), make the body less bright, and keep current as "classic" in preferences (PREFERABLE). or 2. Add an option in preferences with dark mode option.<br>
 
Why first is preferable? Because most of the visitors don't know about preferences.<br>
 
Examples. This is what i've been using by changing my own [[User:Ashe/common.css|common.css page]]:<br>
 
[https://imgur.com/a/PLXoWsd Edited, normal Main Page]<br>
 
[https://imgur.com/a/4ehZQj9 Edited, normal same random page]<br>
 
[https://imgur.com/a/wfZqXj7 Dark Main Page]<br>
 
[https://imgur.com/a/BAZzaMS Dark, same random page]<br>
 
· [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 20:28, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
 
:I think it would look cool if we used similar colors from the achievement icons. Primary background color is dark grey, and have the elements on the page being white or orange. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 22:12, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: I like the idea, but updating the CSS for a feature outside our control is not something I'd like to deal with. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 10:23, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== About adding every language to 'Updated localization files' changelogs ==
 
 
 
Is it really necessary? Does anyone even care about that? If so they can always check diff or tf2 tracker to see what was changed. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 07:33, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 
:Don't see why it shouldn't be on there. In the same way that you could say the items that were added in a case aren't necessary to add, because they can always check the TF2 case in-game for the cosmetics or go to the case page.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 10:24, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 
::Except people actually care about about items from cases. What language was updated for localization files is not even close to be this important, in my opinion (localization files are just a big meme at this point for the community). [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 16:50, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 
:::How the community sees a patch note is completely irrelevant though, translators can be interested in which languages are updated so they don't have to check if theirs is updated on the diff or tracker every time. I don't see much harm in keeping this stuff either. For translators, it's simple one extra line of translation work.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:03, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: I honestly don't think this discussion is necessary at all. Going by this logic, people can just check the TF2 Blog to read patch notes, and I don't think we're going to remove them anytime soon.
 
:::: It's an improvement, there are no downsides in adding more information. This is a wiki. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 20:18, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 
:::::Alrighty. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 06:21, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Adding item filenames to the Basic Information tab for all items? ==
 
 
 
It may be useful and more informative to add one more tab to the Basic Information section of items that shows their internal filenames. This would make it easier for modders to locate items and overall let people know about items that have slight differences between their titles and filenames.
 
 
 
For example, Gifting Man From Gifting Land is known as "generous" in tf2_misc_dir. Demo's Snapped Pupil is internally referred to as "eyephoto." So on and so forth. The three issues I can see with adding this are:
 
 
 
1: It would require an edit on basically every item article on the wiki. Doesn't mean it's not possible, but it would be quite time consuming (I'd love to help, though! Browsing with GFCScape is quite fun for me.)
 
 
 
2: There would need to be some way to refer to items that have multiple, separate internal filenames. This usually applies to the multi-class items. The Earbuds exist in each class' items folder separately (demo_earbuds, scout_earbuds, etc.)
 
 
 
3: The wiki's "Item infobox" would need to be changed to accommodate the new descriptors.
 
 
 
Here's an example of how this could be done, using an abbreviated infobox:
 
 
 
For items like the Snapped Pupil:
 
 
 
| type              = cosmetic
 
| used-by            = [[Demoman]]
 
| directory          = demo
 
| filename          = eyephoto
 
 
 
For multi-class items like the Earbuds, which exist in each of the class' folders separately:
 
 
 
| type              = cosmetic
 
| used-by            = [[Classes|All classes]]
 
| directory          = '''Something conveying that it exists in all class folders, yet not all_class'''
 
| filename          = (class)_earbuds
 
 
 
 
 
Finally, for all_class items like the Gifting Man From Gifting Land, which exist in the all_class folder, but have separate models for each class.
 
 
 
| type              = cosmetic
 
| used-by            = [[Classes|All classes]]
 
| directory          = all_class
 
| filename          = generous_(class)
 
 
 
[[User:Sloeber|Sloeber]] ([[User talk:Sloeber|talk]]) 22:26, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Way too much work that would be useful for way too few people. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 22:47, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 
:Agreed with BrazilianNut, too much work that's not really beneficial to a majority of people.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 23:04, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 
::If you are having trouble finding items, I suggest looking for an "internal file names" list. [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=395367659 Here's something from the Garry's Mod Guides section] that may help you. As for what others said, I agree, it's something very little people would use. Aditionally, you can look up in tf/scripts/items_game.txt. Open the file, press '''Ctrl+F''', write/paste the name of the item, and check the "model_player" string to know where the item is located in the game files. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:51, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: It's not particularly hard to do, it's rather easy actually,. But could you elaborate on why and how this information could help modders?
 
::: I assume if you're a modder you already have the basic knowledge to find this information on your own, so I'm not sure if the trouble is really worth it. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 15:22, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== What exactly constitutes a "Community Strategy Stub?" ==
 
 
 
I've seen a number of strategy articles labelled as stubs that are incredibly detailed and seemingly complete, such as https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Community_Gravel_Pit_strategy. While I'm aware that there are a number of other articles that are nowhere near complete, the fact that such articles can be so fleshed out and still be labelled as stubs begs the question: What exactly constitutes a Community strategy page to be labelled a stub? How much information does it need? How well organized does it have to be? I feel like having a better grasp on what determines if an article is in desperate need of additional information can help me figure out how best to contribute to the progression of the Project. [[User:GoodMudkip|GoodMudkip]] ([[User talk:GoodMudkip|talk]]) 15:40, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 
: Eh. The reason why these stubs are present are not because the strategy in question is incomplete, but because the stubs are outdated. You see, once someone plasters a stub onto a page, they usually don't bother to go back and revert that stub, even if the page in question gets updated. Hence, why there are so many useless stubs lying around everywhere. If you want to see how "complete" a strategy page actually is, you should visit [[Team Fortress Wiki:Community Strategy]] project page, which contains a table tracking the status of every strategy page known to man.
 
:[[User:Lolimsogreat21|Lolimsogreat21]] ([[User talk:Lolimsogreat21|talk]]) 16:07, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Lolimsogreat21
 
:: Thanks for elaborating. Though if the reason so many of these pages are still considered stubs is that no one's bothered to re-evaluate their stub status, then someone needs to get on that and remove the stub blurbs on some of them. I'll make sure to check out the project page though. [[User:GoodMudkip|GoodMudkip]] ([[User talk:GoodMudkip|talk]]) 20:06, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Rot, trans, and light values page ==
 
 
 
I can't find that one page that has a long table with the HLMV registry values for rotation, translation, light position etc. used for the cosmetic images on their wiki pages. Could someone please link it? [[User:Memayz|Memayz]] ([[User talk:Memayz|talk]]) 15:28, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 
: Found it: [[Template:Painted_variants/Tutorial/Rotations]] [[User:Memayz|Memayz]] ([[User talk:Memayz|talk]]) 15:37, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Bugs and Unused content sections throughout the Wiki ==
 
 
 
Some pages have some extremely outdated bugs, for instance, [[Gunslinger]]. I play this game a lot (not to brag), and I haven't had the problem where you can build mini-sentries with regular wrenches, neither I had my first-person view having the Gunslinger + Wrench, I also never manged to build or see mini level 3 Sentry Guns (I think that was a bug to the Engineer Robot, never mind). This is just one page, other pages have lots of other outdated bugs. Some cosmetics has some strange bugs that doesn't seem to apply anymore or should be in another page (the Cozy Camper Jarate dissappearing is due to an issue of the translucent effect not working properly in the entire game, not only the Cozy Camper. The same problem happens with the majority of translucid items, such as the Halloween "ghost pets", so should we add that to the other translucid cosmetics/weapons or just mention somewhere else universally?).<br><br>
 
The problem is that not all bug fixes are listed in the Patch Notes, so we are unaware when things get fixed or not. As for unused content (unused content for items RELEASED in the game, by the way, not unreleased items), a lot of old item pages have the "This item is set up to be paintable, but the ability to do so has been disabled." (with some pages have slightly different wording). Some items have that info added, others don't. For me, I don't think just because the texture is set to be paintable that would necessarily be a paintable item, some item creators use just 1 texture for both teams (maybe bypassing the limitation to have other textures for other areas of the item, for more detail). The way the paintability works is that there's an white area on the texture that is "unpainted", and it also has an alpha mask covering that area. On the material files, the string "colortint_base" is what adds the color to the cosmetic, so both teams can use the same texture but use different materials. So yeah, should we keep this piece of unused content up or should we remove it? [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:35, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:It's a tricky thing to figure out which bugs are outdated and which aren't. Ideally, bugs would be removed with proper proof that shows the bug no longer happens. However, as is often with these bugs, there are no steps for reproduction and so we can't really be sure. Furthermore, I think a bug being mentioned as fixed doesn't immediately guarantee it being fixed. As for the unused content bit, it seems more like (pre-)workshop trivia than unused content, but I think it can fit in unused content if we decide to keep it (which I'm for).<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 21:47, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 
::Yeah, and you are correct, there has been cases where the patch notes stated something was fixed but wasn't actually (or was not fixed properly). And there's some bugs that happen due to external factors (minimizing the game on full-screen and getting it back up causes a plethora of issues), so it's hard to know. Well, I wouldn't consider the paintability thing pre-workshop trivia because these items are still "paintable" in the item's textures/materials, just not set up to be painted in the schema. Some of those items are not even "marketed" on the workshop as paintable either. I will add this information to the missing pages then (and make it consistent on the few pages that is written differently), but I'll have to figure it out which pages are missing. I do recall seeing lots of cosmetics on TFMV that had paintability but the page on the Wiki didn't mentioned anything ("paintable" cosmetics that are not marked as paintable in the schema appears as "VMT ColorTint Base" in TFMV, while unpaintable cosmetics is grayed out with the "Not paintable" string). [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 22:07, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 
:::Additionally, should we make pictures to show the unused paintability on those items? The [[Neon Annihilator]] page has an image showing the unused paint variants on the Gallery section, I think the [[Most Wanted]] page also had on the gallery for some time, but it was removed. Just stating that the item is paintable is not enough information, in my opinion. Maybe we should add like details on where the item's unused paintability comes from (so, on the [[Caped Crusader]] page, it should state that it paints the cape area), and add an image to the gallery section showing the unused paint variants. But let's not add the Paint Variant Table for those items who are not paintable by the schema, so it doesn't confuse readers. Another idea would be making a sub-page like [[Most Wanted/Unused Paint Variant Table]] or something, and make use of the table itself on that page, while linking said page somewhere on the [[Most Wanted|main page]]. TFMV has an option to make a single image showing all paint variants. The only problem is that the Paint Can order is not the same as the one used on the Wiki. Another option would making the paint pics separately, and use SpriteSheeter, a program that lets you easily organize images into one huge sheet, while keep everything centralized and consistent ([https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:PCB_Trial_Portraits.png Example of multiple images combined into one using SpriteSheeter, on another Wiki]). [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:29, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::I think adding an example of what it would look like painted is a good idea.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 12:39, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Pyroland demonstrations ==
 
 
 
It has been decided that new Pyroland demonstration videos will no longer be made. I believe, for uniformity sake, that we should remove existing Pyroland videos as well. We should not have ''some'' articles with them and ''some'' articles without them; ''all'' should be either one or the other. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 07:49, 9 November 2021 (UTC)<br>
 
EDIT: Maybe we could have the [[Pyroland]] demonstration video updated to show one cosmetic being credited as the assistant and one cosmetic being credited as the killer. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 08:03, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
:The current plan is to not remove any existing ones but add a single video that demonstrates every kind of Pyroland demonstration (So assists with kills, kill credit, etc.). I think it should be that the videos are removed from item pages, but not removed from the wiki channel (Maybe an added "Archived:" in front of the title, with an explanation in the comments).<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 11:18, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Yeah, I suggest reading Wind's response on this topic [[Team_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Weapon_Demonstration#Pyroland_assists_on_cosmetics_.28both_question.2Fproposal_and_request.29|here]], as well my thoughts on it. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:29, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Special Taunts on Class Pages ==
 
 
 
I have always wondered about this, why not include the Special Taunts for each class on their respective pages, as well listing the All-Class taunts? Each class page has sections for their weapons (which includes multi/all-class weapons), their cosmetics, all-class cosmetics, as well item sets. Considering Special Taunts are also considered items, I think we should add a table of sorts to include them. Maybe include them below the "Taunt Attack" section and above the "Item sets". We can use a table similar to the cosmetic one to use the backpack icons/item icons instead of the class actually doing the taunt, but unlike the cosmetic table, the tables should always be open (both class-specific and all-class ones), due to the fact that there's not many special taunts compared to cosmetics. Below the "Special Taunts" section, include a "Main article: [[Soldier taunts#Special|Special Soldier taunts]]" or something.
 
 
 
I think in general, Special Taunts pages (like [[Rancho Relaxo]]) themselves should include the responses that happens during the taunt, or at least include a link to the [[Engineer taunts#Special|Special section for that taunt in specific]]. The problem in adding the link to the [[Soldier taunts#Special]] page is that you can't specify the page to go to a specific taunt, only a specific section.
 
 
 
Additionally, I think the [[Soldier taunts|Class taunts]] page should be reworked on. I think we should add the taunts themselves to the class pages, and move the responses on the [[Soldier responses]] page. So I will propose the following ideas:
 
 
 
a) Include the Special taunts section below "Taunt Attack" and above the "Item sets" section, and include a Main Article link to the special taunts;
 
 
 
b) Make a section for taunts for each class page. The section is called "Taunts", which includes both "Weapon taunts" (the terminology that is used in-game when selecting a taunt on the taunt selector) and "Special taunts". Below the "Taunts" section, add a "Main Article: [Class] taunts" link.
 
 
 
{{pro}} c) Get rid of the class taunt pages, and move everything to their respective class pages. Move the responses to the class responses page, and include a link to [[Soldier responses#Taunt-related responses]] somewhere on the Taunts section.
 
 
 
My vote is for "c)". [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 11:56, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
 
 
:Weapons are a big deal for the classes, so I don't think we should touch anything there. "Taunt Attack" is also something that can affect other players, so I think it's ok to have them listed in the classes' articles too. Things like "Cosmetic items" and "Item sets" could be removed and replaced with links to existing pages, such as [[Cosmetic items#List of cosmetic items|List of [class] cosmetics]] and [[Item sets]] (this one with a # directly to the class' sets), in See also. We could then add a link to the [[Taunts#Taunts by class|[Class] taunts]] articles there as well.
 
 
 
:I don't know where to stand regarding the "[Class] taunts" pages, though, as I see pros and cons to having the responses both in the articles for the taunts and in the "[Class] taunts" articles. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 15:25, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== tf2 status ==
 
 
 
can an thing related to tf2 status (if is down, or up) be added to the main wiki page?
 
 
 
[[User:AuroraBorreal|MaxwellWagner]] ([[User talk:AuroraBorreal|talk]]) 01:12, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 
:Doesn't really seem necessary. [https://steamstat.us/ This website] should work if you're curious, but it's not really a necessary feature for the wiki imo.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 15:00, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Update history ==
 
 
 
suggestion: change from "oldest date to newest date" to "newest date to oldest date"<br>
 
reason: easier to update, easier to see new changes. [[User:Angustia|Angustia]] ([[User talk:Angustia|talk]]) 14:13, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 
:I don't see much point in this, it's not really hard to update the update history nor is it hard to scroll down on it and having to do this on every single page to date is way too large of a task.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 15:19, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Simple class link templates ==
 
 
 
I suggest to add the templates {{Scout}}, {{Soldier}}, etc, ({{code|<nowiki>{{Soldier}}</nowiki>}}) to simply make a link to those class articles. This is shorter and simpler than [[Template:class link]] with the parameter {{code|noimg&#61;true}} ({{code|<nowiki>{{class link|Soldier|noimg=true}}</nowiki>}}) or, when translating, {{code|<nowiki>[[Soldier/es|Soldier]]</nowiki>}} · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 23:34, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 
:I don't really understand what's wrong with {{tl|Class link}}? You're saying it's "too long"? As in, around the same length as {{tl|Item link}} which gets a fair amount of use? I really don't want us to have highly specialized templates, that defeats the purpose (and maintainability) of those templates. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 05:11, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 
::Then what's the point of have {{tl|item link}} if users can "simply" write {{code|<nowiki>[[Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol/es|Pistola de Bolsillo del Guaperas]]</nowiki>}}. If {{tl|class link}} would link to class articles without the class emblem, it would be fine. A dumb solution would be to change the template to not show the emblem by default, but that would break practically the whole wiki, so my suggestion is more ideal · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 17:04, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 
:::Item link is actually more, because it's doing localization for you, so it's <nowiki>[[Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol/es|{{item name|Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol}}]]</nowiki>. And, obviously, a longer name is a more extreme example; be careful that you're not arguing ''reducto ad absurdum''.
 
:::There is a balance between having templates for everything (at which point nothing on the wiki is WYSIWYG) and no templates (at which point there is a lot of duplication). In general, I tend to fall more on the side of more templates, but those are not always easier for translators.
 
:::My rule of thumb is, if a template only has a single use-case, then it's costing more in terms of abstraction than it's saving in terms of code re-use. There are exceptions, of course (the dictionary is one humungous exception for this), but this helps me to not turn everything into a template just because I can.
 
:::If the default value isn't helpful, how about another template which has a different set of defaults? That way, you're still re-using code with a template, but avoiding needless article clutter.
 
:::[[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 18:32, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 
::::Oh yeah, that's another option. Something like this:<br>
 
::::{{code|<nowiki>{{class link|{{{1}}}|noimg=true}}</nowiki>}}
 
::::In a template called {{tl|cl}}, for example · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 19:37, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Cosmetic perspective ==
 
 
 
I don't think an official consensus on this exists, and if it does I can't find it. But from which perspective are articles written? For example, if a baseball cap has a logo on the left side (When looking from the front), would this be described as "With a logo on the left side" (Third person perspective when looking at hat) or "With a logo on the right side" (First person perspective when wearing the hat).
 
 
 
I'd vote for third person, because that way the people reading the article can compare it to the infobox's image.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 11:56, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 
:{{C|Agree}} Third person also matches how you see the hat on other people, as well as in the loadout preview in-game. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 12:30, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::Over which eye does the Demoman wear an eye patch? I think we will all agree it's his left eye, but from a third person perspective, it's his right eye.
 
 
 
::What's the driver's side on a car (outside the UK)? I think we will all agree it's the left side, but from a third person perspective, one could say it's the right side if they are looking from the front.
 
 
 
::If an item has defined front and back, the first person perspective should always be used. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 18:58, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
::{{c|Disagree}} I agree with BrazilianNut · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 19:43, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
: When describing a model, first person perspective. In img subtitle, third person perspective. [[User:Angustia|Angustia]] ([[User talk:Angustia|talk]]) 20:37, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 
 
 
== The brand new {{tl|item description}}™ template and dictionary ==
 
 
 
Hi fools.
 
 
 
When displaying items around the wiki, either through infoboxes or other templates, please make sure to use the new {{tlx|item description}} template (and update {{tl|dictionary/descriptions}} accordingly).  This works exactly the same as the {{tl|item name}} template you're all used to and must be transcluded on English pages as well.
 
 
 
Thanks. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 19:00, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
: Please note that this change is not retroactive. Articles created prior to this message are not supposed to be manually updated.
 
 
 
: Do NOT update old articles. Please treasure your time. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 19:12, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Fan-made TF2 songs pages ==
 
 
 
Howdy, fellas! I know there's a good handful of beloved fan-made songs for TF2 mercs and stuff. Is it worth making an article/page about? Just wanted to hear someone's opinion on this, maybe we could start a conversation? Like (if you have one) what is your favorite Team Fortress 2 fan-song?
 
 
 
''Mine is'''''The Most Fashionable Faction'''''by The Stupendium''
 
 
 
 
 
[[User:Blue theRAT85|Blue theRAT85]] ([[User talk:Blue theRAT85|talk]]) 03:06, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I don't think this is necessary, there are simply too many songs and too little information for it to be really worth making a page for. It would consist of one or two line(s) of text, maybe a small infobox, and the video itself. Similarly, there aren't any pages about SFMs/gmod videos.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 11:12, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Available qualities ==
 
 
 
Hello! I didn't find any topic about this in specific, so maybe this should be discussed. So, if the item is not available in a specific quality anymore, should it be removed? Two examples: [[Corpse Carrier]] and [[Coffin Kit]]. I already made the edits ([https://wiki.tf/d/3134774 1] [https://wiki.tf/d/3134782 2]) in [[Template:Dictionary/quad]], should have posted this first, I'm sorry for that :P
 
 
 
Now about the available qualities, I'll give an example (and this applies to most of the Halloween items), the [[Zipperface]] currently only shows [https://i.imgur.com/5FOeb4w.png "Mann Co. Store" in the Unique quality], so my question is: What should really be included? The available "ways" of getting the item '''at the moment''' (would be something like this: "Mann Co. Store, Halloween Package & Halloween Transmute"), or '''every way''': "Mann Co. Store, Mann Co. Supply Crate #51, Haunted Halloween Gift on Ghost Fort, Halloween Package & Halloween Transmute". There are other situations like the [[Limited Late Summer Pack]] items ("only" one way), the Smissmas 2014/2013/2012 items... the same with weapons, the [[Crossing Guard]] for example. What do you think? [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 22:25, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
:The available qualities is meant to be for non-exploited ways of obtaining the item (i.e. no Vintage for Bill's Hat, because it's not a legit way of getting it, but rather a mistake on Valve's part), so the available quality of the Corpse Carrier and Coffin Kit should stay as they're completely legitimate ways of obtaining them.
 
:As for the 2nd question, I think all ways to get an item should be listed.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 22:41, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 
::The qualities were added back in [https://wiki.tf/d/3151730 this] edit and I will rework Dictionary/quad (2nd question) once QuAD/list/Sandbox is implemented. Closed :D [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 01:44, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Item origins (promotional) ==
 
 
 
I've noticed there's no real consensus on where an item's origin should go, sometimes it's put in the first paragraph (E.g. [[Widowmaker]]) but other times it's put in trivia (E.g. [[Dread Hiding Hood]]).
 
 
 
I personally propose that with ''promotional items only'', it's put in the main paragraph. This is because the main paragraph is where the item is always described, with promotional items their design is always taken from the associated game which is why I think it should be mentioned in the main paragraph. For other items (non-promotional), it should remain in the trivia imo.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 12:26, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
:Makes more sense when it's in the first paragraph / main description of the item at the top. So I would go for following the style that it's on the Widowmaker's page. Though there might be some promotional items that aren't so obvious in its design, like the [[Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Future Soldier]] items. Do we know if any of these items are based off anything from that game in specific or the Tom Clancy's franchise as a whole? I guess in cases like these, not having information regarding the origin of the item is alright too. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:43, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I agree with [[User:Gabrielwoj|Gabrielwoj]], it makes more sense to have it in the paragraph introducing the item, though I would put it in the part mentioning the pre-purchase deal- maybe at the beginning of the sentence before mentioning the Genuine quality. The reason being so the game is not mentioned twice in a single paragraph to avoid redundancy. What do you all think? [[User:Yossef|Yossef]] | [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User_talk:Yossef Talk] | [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Yossef Contributions] 14:15, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
::How about, '''''for promotional items only''''', we start the description with "It is the [thing] / It is based on the [thing] from [media]" and then proceed to describe its appearance?
 
::Examples:
 
 
 
::* "The '''Dread Hiding Hood''' is a <font color=blue>promotional cosmetic item</font> for the Sniper. It is the hood worn by <font color=blue>Garret</font> from the video game <font color=blue>''Thief''</font>; a dark, team-colored hood and face mask..."
 
::* "The '''Widowmaker''' is a (...) <font color=blue>weapon</font> for the Engineer. It is based on the <font color=blue>Widowmaker TX</font> from the video game <font color=blue>''Deus Ex: Human Revolution''</font>; a futuristic tan shotgun..." (we could also expand the description to more than just "futuristic tan shotgun").
 
 
 
::This way, even though the original media's name is repeated, the mentions are somewhat spaced from one another. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:03, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: {{c|Support}} I like this idea a lot.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 16:06, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: {{c|Support}} Yes, me too. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:22, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: {{c|Support}} Yeah, I prefer this wording than my suggestion. [[User:Yossef|Yossef]] | [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User_talk:Yossef Talk] | [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Yossef Contributions] 16:30, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: {{c|Support}} Certainly, the fact that it is a promotional item should be stated in the lead. IMO, placing statements about promotions into Trivia is diminishing to the thing promoted, especially charities. And, by the time it the item is recognized for its promotion, ''what'' the item represents is usually [[Obvious]] and therefore not Trivia, and of all the many simple observations that we place in the lead, this  may be the most justifiable.
 
::: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] <!-- --
 
--> <small> ([[User:Mikado282/Contact Mikado282|Contact Mikado282 (SM)]]) | [[Special:Contributions/Mikado282|'''''contribs''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) </small> 18:10, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
== I think there should be a page listing and describing cosmetic item effects ==
 
 
 
it would be nice to have a list of all "special" cosmetics items, and what effects they have,
 
like say you listed "Elf ignition, Jolly jingler, Elf care provider, Elf defense, Seasonal employee, Bootie time, Jingle belt, Reindeerobeanie, Elf-made bandanna"
 
as "items that make a jingle sound on walking"
 
and having all cosmetics that give you pyrovision under a pyrovision effect tab
 
"ball-kicking boots" would be "spawns a ball"
 
 
 
it would just be nice having all theese cosmetics with special effects listed under a page, as there is no such page/list now
 
 
 
also i do not know much about editing wikis, and creating new pages, and i dont want to do edit a bunch of pages and end up doing more harm than good, if my idea is not good
 
[[User:Jones Edison|Jones Edison]] ([[User talk:Jones Edison|talk]]) 17:33, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
:[[:Category:Cosmetic items that make noise]] lists all cosmetic items that make noise, [[Pyroland#In game|this section]] of the Pyroland page mentions Pyroland items. Not sure if it's worth to have a page like that.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 16:34, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Reworking paint variant tables from Medic's shirt cosmetics with the lower coat visible ==
 
 
 
Hi. In the past, I have reworked some paint variant table pictures that did not show the entire cosmetic, such as the [[Surgeon's Sidearms]] and [[Shogun's Shoulder Guard]]. In the first one, only the part with the hand was being shown. I reworked to include what's inside Medic's pockets, because the colors of that changes between teams, and there was no way to know that beforehand. In the case of the Shoulder Guard, only the collar area was being shown, and there was no way to know the BLU variation of the arm attachment that the cosmetic adds. I plan in re-making those again without the classes' heads, but anyway, just mentioning those here.
 
 
 
Since then, I was always wondering about certain Medic cosmetics. Some Medic cosmetics features elements that goes all the way down to his lower coat, reaching his boots. Cosmetics like [[Colonel's Coat]] and [[Heat of Winter]] has this, and it changes per team. But right now, due to how the paint variant pictures are being shown, there's no way to know about this change.
 
 
 
My suggestion would be remaking those with the lower coat region being shown. Yes, this means the image will be taller and the paint differences will be smaller to notice, but reader's can simply click the images to enlarge. They can click on any paint variant and keep pressing Left or Right on the gallery viewer. This was the case with [[Lurker's Leathers]]. I couldn't just remove the part of the pants since it changed per team, so I included the entire Spy body (although now that I see, I could probably remake those without Spy's head and feet). This cosmetic alone was the reason I added the "Click on the images to enlarge them." on the Painted variants template description.
 
 
 
I can also remake items like [[Der Wintermantel]] and [[Foppish Physician]], even if the lower coat area doesn't really change per team (actually, Der Wintermantel's white areas is SLIGHTLY different per team).
 
 
 
Here's an Imgur album I made showing a preview how these would look, showing the lower part of the coat: [https://imgur.com/a/vJMe9lG https://imgur.com/a/vJMe9lG].
 
 
 
Additionally, the [[Dead of Night]] on the Medic has the same thing too. If you paint the item with the "Dark" style selected, the colors of the trim at the lower part of the coat will also paint. Not sure if there's something we can do about that, maybe just additional text on the main summary would help.
 
 
 
Please let me know about this before I work on these paint variants, which will take a while to make considering I have to rely on a model that lets me hide the Pants and Shoes manually (which means I have to disable these bodygroups manually PER paint change).
 
 
 
Sadly, because I don't have Photoshop, I'm unable to make a texture that hides the pants and boots without having the colors being washed out (which happens with gimp_vtf plugin). Omolong did most (if not all) the file replacements for paint variant tables, and from what I remember, he used Photoshop. I tried many different things but was unable to get the textures look like default. With this custom model that lets me hide stuff, the colors are okay, there's extremely small differences between the original model and this one, differences so small that reader's will probably not notice. I also tried decompiling the Medic model, removing the Pants and Shoes area, and recompiling, but the lighting and certain parts got a bit messed up, so I discarded that.
 
 
 
If someone has Photoshop, I can send some steps on how to make the texture hide the parts I want. It uses a technique with the alpha mask and a string on the material (.vmt) that hides parts of the model based on the white areas in the Alpha Mask. I have the Alpha Mask with the lower coat region being shown saved. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
:I do have Photoshop, do you mean you want someone to help edit a texture file? Maybe I can help. --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 05:06, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
::I need a modified version of medic_red.vtf and medic_blue.vtf to include [https://www.mediafire.com/view/zixk8et1xpim315/Medic_with_Lower_Coat_-_Alpha_Mask_medic_texture.png/file this alpha mask] (make sure to click Download and not save directly from the preview, to retain the quality of the image). Download the [https://www.mediafire.com/file/y4xeclq0wq2y6pt/medic_shirt%252Bbelt_materials.zip/file medic_shirt+belt_materials.zip] provided on the [[Template:Painted_variants/Tutorial/Rotations|Rotations page]]. Download the Photoshop plugin for importing/exporting .VTF files: [http://nemstools.github.io/files/psvtfplugin1011.zip http://nemstools.github.io/files/psvtfplugin1011.zip] (more info here: [https://nemstools.github.io/subpages/Comments/VTF_Plug-In_for_Photoshop-page1.html https://nemstools.github.io/subpages/Comments/VTF_Plug-In_for_Photoshop-page1.html]).
 
 
 
:: Import the medic_red.vtf from the medic_shirt+belt_materials.zip I provided, and replace the alpha mask with the one I provided. I don't know how photoshop works, but if there's an overwrite functionality, it may retain the quality and all other settings from before, making the texture quality lossless. If not, maybe select "Uncompressed texture" on the "Templates" section when exporting the .vtf. Select "Eight Bit Alpha (Format Specific)" on the flags. Include mipmaps and thumbnail. Do the same for medic_blue.vtf.
 
 
 
:: This should work. If you have VTFEdit, compare the quality between two textures by opening both files (the original one from the .zip and the new one with the new alpha mask applied), and see if the new one has a lower quality / is darker. If not, then that worked how I wanted, without the texture suffering quality loss.
 
 
 
:: Thanks. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:50, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
::: Oh wow the plugin requires a 32-bit version Photoshop! lucky enough I checked my old PC it still has a 32-bit Photoshop installed. I got to choose "Uncompressed texture with Alpha" or it won't let me select the "Eight Bit Alpha" so I did that. The file size get significantly bigger somehow. I downloaded VTFEdit and opened the textures and I didn't see any difference. Here's the [https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/04eNsYRePICspgdLHzMy2ZMEw#medic_texture_alpha_replaced download] for replaced texture. Hope they would work! --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 15:58, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
:::: I tried, for some reason I can't see a difference on VTFEdit, but on HLMV, they still look desaturated. Apparently even Omolong's texture replacements have this problem, but our .vtf edits still gets more desaturated than his replacements.
 
:::: I appreciate your help, but I think I'll rely with an alternative method. I have a pack made by NeoDement that is a custom model that lets me change custom bodygroups (I can disable the pants, shoes, hands, glasses, etc.). The differences between the original model in the game is very little (there are some small differences on the lighting/shadows, most likely due to recompiliation issues). Now, I would like to ask. What do you think it's the best choice here?
 
::::* Leave the paint variants for Colonel's Coat and Heat of Winter like they are.
 
::::* Or re-make them to include the lower part of the coat?
 
::::I still think the second option is better. These two items are different between teams and so far, there are no ways to visualize that on the page. The other items, Der Wintermantel, Foppish Physician, I can remake these too, to keep consistent with the other two cosmetics. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:23, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
::::: That’s very weird. I will try experimenting with them tomorrow. <br>Not sure about how noticeable the difference is between the custom model, but I still like the second option to include the lower part of the coat, for all the coats. (That sounds like a lot of work!) It makes it at least looks like a actual coat. Your previews in Imgur looks fantastic. <br>For the Dead of Night, I believe a text explanation and a couple of image (maybe a GIF?) demonstrating the difference should be enough, just to let the reader have a idea how the lower part is different. —[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 17:30, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
== New template that supports "single color" paint can for both teams ==
 
 
 
A while ago, it was discovered that the [[Frenchman's Beret]] singular colors changes per team. This is due how the texture is set up. Rather than the texture being colored in white to accomodate the white colored alpha mask (that determines where it should paint), this hat has no alpha mask at all. And on RED team, the base texture is green, while on the BLU team, the base texture is yellow. Due to the lack of alpha mask and white colored parts on the main texture, the paint tool will simply "merge" with the colors already in there. This is the reason as to why [https://imgur.com/a/1bVGeGI this hat shows up like this when painted in Tinge].
 
 
 
This isn't the only cosmetic with this. The [[Defiant Spartan]] also has a similar issue. The Defiant Spartan does have an alpha mask, but the base texture is still RED and BLU, and not white. This causes errors when painting, just notice the darker paints being merged with RED/BLU colors.
 
 
 
Other cosmetics with similar problems include:
 
* [[Antarctic Parka]] (notice how the darker paints have little to no effect);
 
* [[Kapitan's Kaftan]] (small changes between teams, the BLU team's texture causes Single Color paints to be a little brighter than RED's texture).
 
* There might be more.
 
 
 
So what's our plan here? I have made this [[User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox|template]] with a proposed dual-team single colored paint cans to be used in those special scenarios. How does it look? I think it looks pretty snazzy, and seem to work properly on a page. There might be a problem with other languages, though, if their paint can names are too lengthy. The table may also break if the window size of the reader's browser is too small.
 
 
 
If this is okay, what pages should we enforce this rule on? I gave you 4 examples, the only one that is the least different per team is Kapitan's Kaftan, but there's still a small difference with the brightness. Of course that there might be other cosmetics with the same situation. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 18:38, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
: [[User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2|Alternate version]] with each Single Color paint can being compared side-by-side per team. I think I prefer this one, it's easier to understand and it's consistent with the Team colors we already have established on the Wiki. Please tell me which one's your favorite.
 
: {{pro|Alternate Version}} [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:35, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 
 
 
:: I like the alternative version. But it feels very overwhelmed when I tried it on actual page, like tons of images slapped to your face. Hope it could be a horizontally scrollable table (only the single colors part) so there's only couple of columns shown at a time, and there could be a button to spread the whole table wide. Then the Team colors section could be aligned to the left. --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 05:44, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 
  
::: I don't know if I like the idea of a scrollable table. What I can do, however, is making the same size as the default paint variants, but include more rows to include the BLU alternate versions. So it would be something like: An Extraordinary Abundance of Tinge (RED), An Extraordinary Abundance of Tinge (BLU), Color No. 216-190-216 (RED), Color No. 216-190-216 (BLU) on the first row, then goes to the next row. But on this case... it would be too many rows to scroll for. I still think the alternative one I present may look better, unedited. I just can't imagine right now how it looks since we don't have the BLU single-colored paints for the Frenchman's Beret or other cosmetics for a better visualization.
+
:For userboxes see [[Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes]]. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{tl|User infobox}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
::: I'm thinking about moving the template to [[Template:Painted variants full]], I think that's a good name for the template. The most important thing right now is to include the BLU single colored paints for these cosmetics. If there's a design change to the table that should be made, that can simply be modified via the template. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:59, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 
  
:::: I tried the template with [[Defiant Spartan]] and this cosmetics had BLU painted pictures. I'm also thinking maybe we could make it 4 columns but it's inside a vertical scrollable box so it's not too long. Anyway can we make all the cells left aligned, so some of them not floating in the center? --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]][[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 13:44, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
+
::Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
  
::::: I think having the table have 4 columns per row, and include a vertical scrollbar might be ideal, actually (having a horizontal scrollbar would be weird). The template needs to have a similar height size with the standard one, though. Had no idea the Defiant Spartan had the BLU variants already made. Apparently someone has worked on a similar table like mine before: [[User:Rebmcr/Template:Painted variants/team]]. I don't know how to implement the scrollbar, though. Feel free to modify my "Sandbox2" page.
+
:::[[Help:Images]] may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using [[Special:Upload|the upload page]]. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include <nowiki>[[Category:User images]]</nowiki> in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.
  
::::: Something else I thought was painting the background behind "Paint Can Name (RED)" as RED and "Paint Can Name (BLU)" as BLUE, to make it easier to understand, but I wasn't sure if that would be confusing (blue background for the lime paint?!?!?). [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:00, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
+
:::As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:::::: I think the current template without the scrollbar might be enough. Look how it looks on the Frenchman's Beret page. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:23, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
+
::::Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
  
{{outdent|6}} I could imagine adding a bright blue and red background behind text make the text hard to read and hurting your eyes, use a light blue and red might work though. How about replacing the (RED) or (BLU) in the text with a red or blue dot? That will look more elegant and clean. (Will it be difficult for colorblind people to distinguish between red and blue dots? Maybe Text, or a hidden tooltip, is still important. )<br>They looks ok on Frenchman's Beret, let’s just leave it like that and stop make it more complicated, it’s only on a few pages anyways. —[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]]┋[[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 17:44, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
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== Civilian Image ==
  
: Here's a few other findings I managed to... well, find:
+
Should we change the image of the [[Civilian]] ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
: Tip: After opening the album, right-click an image, and open in a new tab. Do the same for the BLU variation and compare both by switching tabs, it's easier this way.
 
:* Cosmetic with noticeable changes per team:
 
:** [[Stout Shako]]: https://imgur.com/a/5JJAnqU - RED team has more noise on the texture, while the BLU team is more clean. However, the BLU team version paints the paint darker than the RED team;
 
:** [[Backbiter's Billycock]]: https://imgur.com/a/EW0zKSz - Weird paint effect on the BLU team. Color No. 216-190-216 becomes Drab-ish on BLU team, peculiar;
 
:** Backbiter's Billycock (again): https://imgur.com/a/d6MRIe8 - The BLU team colors on the Paint Variant Table are wrong. The person who did the paint variants did not realized that the BLU team version used a different texture. What he most likely did was change the colors to the BLU team variants of Paint Cans on the _red.vmt material. Curiously, the "December 3, 2010" revision of the Team Spirit BLU paint image of this cosmetic was correct, it was later redone incorrectly;
 
:** [[Fancy Fedora]]: https://imgur.com/a/PKLViSE - The stripe of the hat is part of the paint effect. Due to this, some paints shows the stripe being colored differently on BLU;
 
:** [[Ellis' Cap]] (somewhat noticeable): https://imgur.com/a/8kiMZAj - The cosmetic uses two different textures due to the team-colored background of the truck. However, the rest of the texture is a bit different. Just notice how green-ish the RED version is when painted with Tinge.
 
:* Bright paints not so noticeable, Dark paints very noticeable:
 
:** [[Antarctic Parka]]: https://imgur.com/a/JWbJdbR - Has a similar issue to Defiant Spartan, related to textures.
 
:* Brighter on BLU:
 
:** [[Kapitan's Kaftan]]: https://imgur.com/a/pgizvoI - Paints are brighter while on the BLU team.
 
:* Noise:
 
:** [[Vintage Tyrolean]]: https://imgur.com/a/oDbfPJO - Other than the noise on the texture, the BLU version is a bit more shinier;
 
:** [[Tyrant's Helm]]: https://imgur.com/a/68oT2QE - A little more noticeable than Vintage Tyrolean.
 
:* Barely any difference:
 
:** [[Wiki Cap]]: https://imgur.com/a/TDhLuv8 - Yep. There's an extremely small difference between both RED and BLU team's textures when painting. Not going to do it;
 
:** [[Dr. Whoa]] (at least on Medic, unsure about Spy): https://imgur.com/a/Mq4nxug - BLU team is just slightly darker. Don't think it's needed either.
 
: I'm going to work and upload on Stout Shako and the Billycock for sure, probably Ellis Cap too. Unsure about the Fancy Fedora... and unsure about the rest. I think the "Noise" ones aren't needed, only the Tyrant's Helm that is a little more darker on BLU. Stout Shako's Team-dependant Paint Cans might be wrong too. I'll later investigate if the French Beret and Defiant Spartan's have the same issue too. Please let me know on this discussion regarding these.
 
: P.S.: I will check these in-game before uploading them to the Wiki. For extra measure. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:19, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 
:: So here's screenshots taken in-game showing that these indeed happen in-game (also took screenshots of already made ones, the Frenchman's Beret and Defiant Spartan): [https://imgur.com/a/YC699pK https://imgur.com/a/YC699pK] (once again, I recommend right-clicking and opening in a new tab).
 
:: Taken at high-quality settings and on 1920x1080 resolution. I don't want to put an URL on every single file upload with the proof in-game on the "file changes" summary, so I'm posting here instead.
 
:: The Kapitan's Kaftan is hard to notice on these screenshots, but I provided the texture for the RED and BLU version. Notice how the white area is brighter in BLU? Well, that's the reason as to why the paint is affected this way on the BLU team.
 
:: The BLU Vintage Tyrolean's texture is slightly darker due to how the texture's noise/shadowing differs from the RED team. BLU Tyrant's Helm is slightly darker than RED team, as well some "blotches" on the texture.
 
:: Was unable to check team-colored paints in-game as it seems it always applies the RED paint regardless of the team (on any cosmetic), but, at least I know that two different .vmts and textures are used on these cosmetics.
 
:: If other people could join in the discussion to determine/discuss which cosmetics I should make extra BLU paint variants, it would be very helpful. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:54, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
 
  
== Should all bugs in articles have a report in Source-1-Games github? ==
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:That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, [[Civilian (Classic)]] is the TFC version.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
I've thinking about this for a while. The [https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues Valve's official repo] for Source games allows users to report issues with games. So, should all bugs from items have a link to an issue in said repo? Example: I want to report that the Caber can't minicrit with shields, so i should first open an issue in the repo and then I add the bug to the [[Ullapool Caber]] article with a link to the issue. This may help because Github allows to add images and videos in issues (we would'nt depend of YT or Imgur) · [[User:Ashe|Ashe]] ([[User talk:Ashe|talk]]) 17:25, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
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::Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:This would be significantly increase the barrier of entry for people + require a third-party account, although it is a great solution.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:33, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
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:::That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== Bot not updating gameinfo template ==
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== Weapon in user page ==
  
It appears that WindBOT is refusing to update [[Template:Dictionary/gameinfo]] for a few months already. Can someone look into it? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 13:59, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
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Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:Please contact [[User talk:WindPower|WindPower]] regarding matters with his bot or start a discussion on the [[User talk:WindBOT|bot's talk page]], as this is sadly beyond our control. [[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 20:41, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
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:Well, you could try learning how to use [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Table wikitables], there are also templates like [[Template:Backpack item]] and [[Template:User weapon checklist]] you could use to this effect.<br><span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
::Alright. Thanks. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:47, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 
  
== Prices for games in PLN ==
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== Allweapons Nav template ==
  
I have absolutely no idea how to do it, so I'm asking for any help. Is there a way to change prices for games for /pl from euro to polish złoty (pln) the same way as it works now for prices in the mann co. store showed in infoboxes? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 09:06, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
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Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current [[Template:Allweapons Nav|Allweapons Nav]] template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on [[User:Mgpt/Sandbox#Test|my sandbox user page]] ('''Nav 1''' and '''Nav 2'''). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in '''Nav 2''' appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
: This request is directly related to your question above, once the issue is fixed we will be able to add more currencies. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 12:21, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
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:I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:: Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:: Correction: I actually added support for pln back in [https://wiki.tf/d/3013705 July 2021] 🤦‍♂️.
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:::I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
:: It should work now. Please let me know if you face any issues. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 12:36, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
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::::There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
:::It works now. Many thanks. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 16:30, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 
  
== Automate all the things ==
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:::::I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Hi foolks.
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{{outdent|5}} Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.  
  
Two important Main page sections have been upgraded to better accommodate our workflow: the ''Did you know...'' and ''Feature article'' sections. Dyk facts are now refreshed every 15 days and the featured article is refreshed once a month. While this saves us a lot of work by reusing existing good content, some content may be slightly ''outdated'' due to previous <sup><small>and future?? maybe???</small></sup> updates.  
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Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."
 +
* That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
 +
* It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
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: I made some changes, thanks for the input [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
  
I'd like to ask you to keep an eye out for outdated featured blurbs and facts and to update them as needed. A list of dyk facts is [[Template:Dictionary/common strings#Did you know...|available here]] and a list of featured blurbs can be [[:Category:Featured blurbs|found here]]. Please delete any existing translations when updating outdated content, as they are also likely outdated.
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:: Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make ''as much'' sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::: I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::: Updated the template [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Note for translators: I don't recommend translating the new dyk list for the time being (as some content may be completely rewritten or removed), but if you wanna do it anyways, please message me so that I can enable the new dyk section for your language. I'll update this message once everything is ready.
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== About the 2023 leak ==
  
Thanks. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 20:03, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
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Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== Gallery Consistency ==
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:As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the [[Team Fortress Wiki:Policies#Leaked content|leaked content policy]]. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Hi,
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::So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
I believe that nobody brought this topic up, if someone did, please redict me to that post...
 
  
Either way, for many of us that edits, we see that usually the "code" "<gallery perrow ="3">" orders the gallery in 3 rows. Usually this is used for multi-class cosmetic items, for example:
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:::Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
* {{item link|Tux}}
 
* {{item link|Earbuds}}
 
* {{item link|Bill's hat}}
 
  
But what about the cosmetic items that are NOT multi-class:
+
::::I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
* {{item link|Beep Man}}
 
* {{item link|Archimedes}}
 
  
Moreover, what about other types of items as well:
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== [[Template:Community Medal Nav|Community Medal Nav]] (closed) ==
* {{item link|Saxxy}}
 
* {{item link|Golden Frying Pan}} (Half used)
 
* {{item link|Dispenser}}
 
* {{item link|Golden Wrench}}
 
  
I believe that there should be a line explicitly stating when and where the perrow code should be applied, this way we create consistency between articles.
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I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{tl|Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
  
As always, I'm eager to hear your opinions on the matter. xoxo
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:With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
[[User:Yossef|Yossef]] | ''[[User talk:Yossef|Talk]]'' | ''[[Special:Contributions/Yossef|Contributions]]'' 12:12, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
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:: Would adding an [https://i.imgur.com/XeBjHCT.png 'Other' section with two links] for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "[[Template:Competitive Nav|Competitive play]]" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?
:I'd like to ask why 'perrow' is even used. I've tried to see how it looks both on pc and mobile, and images scale correctly on both. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 12:46, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
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:: Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:{{c|disagree}} – As much as I'm all for page consistency, I feel that you may be overthinking this a little. {{code|perrow}} is simply used to divide the number of cells in the row of a gallery, usually evenly, as it provides the best visual result compared to odd cells. There need not be an explicit rule in place to state the usage of it as it's really just a matter of editorial judgement on when and where to use it. For instance, galleries that contain lots of cells, like on the [[Golden Frying Pan]], would end up expanding the page length and extend scroll time if the first-person views happened to be divided into rows of 3 – the class galleries consist of only 9 cells which isn't a too high number.
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:::I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:You could also take the single gallery cell on [[Archimedes]] under "Valve Store merchandise" and place it into the main gallery and use {{code|perrow}} to divide each row into cells of 3 to make it even. [[Golden Wrench]], however, is inconsistant in comparison to the Golden Frying Pan, so feel free to change that.
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:::: I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:As a good rule of thumb: Try to avoid {{code|perrow}} on galleries that consist of too many cells. Generally, try to divide the rows if you can achieve an even number of cells, specifically on class galleries. — [[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 20:50, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
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::::: Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not ''exactly'' the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what ''I'' wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then ''that's'' wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
::Sorry for the late response... I believe that there should be a stated somewhere when and where to use the perrow, since every user has a different judgement and having a subjective "rule", will likely cause inconsistency in the articles. Furthermore, it may create conflict between users since they will start undoing each others edits.
 
  
::I propose the following:
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:::::: They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely. <br>[[User:Cheddar|Cheddar]] ([[User talk:Cheddar|talk]]) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
::* Use "<gallery perrow ="3">" on multi-class cosmetic items articles.
 
::* Use "<gallery perrow ="5">" (or 4) on articles regarding games [[Poker Night at the Inventory|like one]].
 
::* '''NO''' perrow on weapons, single class items, or any remaining type of articles.
 
  
::Once again, by making an objective rule we will avoid in user conflicts and inconsistencies. As always, this is just my opinion, and I am happy to hear what everyone thinks, even if you disagree with my "proposal" or thoughts. xoxo [[User:Yossef|Yossef]] | ''[[User talk:Yossef|Talk]]'' | ''[[Special:Contributions/Yossef|Contributions]]'' 08:11, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
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{{outdent|7}}
 +
By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.<br>
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I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.<br>
 +
Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
: For the cosmetic pages, I think there's no need to replace <nowiki><gallery perrow="3"></nowiki> with <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> (too many using <nowiki>perrow="3"</nowiki> right now). I see there's no problem on using <nowiki>perrow="3"</nowiki> on a gallery with just one image or two, let's keep it this way. On other articles (tools, weapons, events, etc) and some cosmetic pages (e.g [[Archimedes#Gallery|Archimedes]] or [[Balloonicorn#Gallery|Balloonicorn]]), whenever its needed, we just adapt the gallery. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:29, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
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:If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
::Well, it has no visual effect in the frontend aside from being viewable in the source. I wouldn't advise you to run through all articles just to remove an attribute for the sake of consistency – that sort of task is better suited for a bot – but I'm not going to stop you either if that's what you really want.
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:: So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes  "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.
  
::Sorry, but I still see this as a trivial matter. Having a ruleset in place to explicitly state the usage of the {{code|perrow}} attribute would cause more confusion than anything, and I can almost guarantee that most users wouldn't adhere to such a small detail. Wikipedia does have some [[w:Help:Gallery_tag#Usage_notes|technical notes]] related to its usage, but those are ''not'' "rules" but instructions. I'd still choose to leave it to editorial judgement and common sense, but if you really want such rules pushed, then please make a draft in your user space and present it here first. [[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 20:29, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
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:: I ''would'' fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
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::: ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{tl|Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== [[Special:Interwiki|Interwiki table update]] ==
+
:::: That didn't ''matter'' when some of those event pages, for '''years''', had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a ''new'' nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.
  
Can someone please update the "l4d" interwiki link from <code><nowiki>http://left4dead.wikia.com/wiki/$1</nowiki></code> to <code><nowiki>https://left4dead.fandom.com/wiki/$1</nowiki></code>? -- [[User:PanchamBro|PanchamBro]] ([[User talk:PanchamBro|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/PanchamBro|contributions]]) 15:25, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
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:::: Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::: closed given the recent discussion [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
: {{c|done}}. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 19:33, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
+
== Trivias without confirmations ==
  
== Some wiki things I need opinions on ==
+
Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::What about [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Crafty_Hair#Trivia this one]? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia [[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
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::::"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::::Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. [[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
A long while ago I made some bug guidelines, if anyone wants to give feedback on them that'd be appreciated. Use the talk page [[User talk:GrampaSwood/Bug guidelines|here]] (the current feedback has already been worked into it).
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::::::Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
I've also got 2 templates that I made ages ago, one for personal use ([[User:GrampaSwood/Template:Explainer|Explainer]]) and one for general discussion use ([[User:GrampaSwood/Template:vote|vote]]). Not sure if anyone sees use in either of these 2 templates, the idea behind the vote template is to create an easy overview of everyone's standpoints (not indended to remove the discussion altogether, just intended to be put at the top of a discussion that may get very large so people's {{pro|support}} and {{con|against}} don't get buried in discussion).
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== Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data ==
  
The explainer template I've made for personal use on my userpage, but I thought it may also be useful for explaining vague patch notes or if something needs more explaining in the damage and function time tables but don't want to make the tables too large.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 15:31, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
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It seems like a very [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Reports/Untranslated_templates/fr|handy feature]] (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?<br>
 +
I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe [[User:Darkid|Darkid]]?<br>
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Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
  
: I really like the vote template you created :). Very simple and as you mentioned, it is better to have one big picture of who agrees or disagrees in a subject. My only concern is that, based on what i’ve seen, not all the proposals that people bring gets the necessary traffic in order to make a whole table, usually we get three comments and thats it. I may be wrong, but I feel that it won’t be a game changer, because of what I mentioned.
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:For the [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Template:Overheal_tool first result] it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. [[User:Jh34ghu43gu|Jh34ghu43gu]] ([[User talk:Jh34ghu43gu|talk]]) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
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::I can take a look, thanks for the ping. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
  
: As for the Explainer template, I’m all on making templates in order to save time and enhance the workflow. Despite this, I was not yet in the need for it, but that does not mean that it is a bad template, I’m sure that users that usually interact more with newcomers or other users, might find the template useful for any scenarios that might incur. [[User:Yossef|Yossef]] | ''[[User talk:Yossef|Talk]]'' | ''[[Special:Contributions/Yossef|Contributions]]'' 20:42, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
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:::Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.
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:::I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
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:::::+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
  
:: Yeah I thought the same about the vote table, it's merely for stuff such as the recent [[Talk:Taunts]] discussion about the names of taunts. It can allow for easy voting while the actual discussing can be easily done regardless.
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== A technical request for "Used by" template ==
:: I've also received mgpt's opinion on this, they stated the explainer template could be useful as well as the vote template "for discussions that really need it" (<which is what my intention was). Just putting it here to collect opinions in the same place.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 20:46, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
 
  
:Wow that's a lot of {{tl|Tooltip}}! I don't like these because they are not visible on the mobile devices without a mouse. --[[User:AlexT|<span style="background:linear-gradient(#D1EEFC, #81F3FD);border:1px #99F3FD solid;color:#007FFF;border-radius:8px">'''Alex'''</span>]][[User talk:AlexT|<span style="color: #FF6600;">'''T'''</span>]] 13:24, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
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"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "<nowiki>{{Used by|all}}</nowiki>" and "<nowiki>{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}</nowiki>" sound fine, but "<nowiki>{{Used by|all-except|</nowiki>" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "<nowiki>{{Used by|all-except|</nowiki>"):
 +
:Scout = Skauta
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:Soldier = Żołnierza
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:Pyro = Pyro
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:Demoman = Demomana
 +
:Heavy = Grubego
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:Enginner = Inżyniera
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:Medic = Medyka
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:Sniper = Snajpera
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:Spy = Szpiega
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[[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
  
== Unusual effects table ==
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:These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
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::Thanks. I've moved it there. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
  
Hello everyone, I need your opinion [[User:Mgpt/sandbox#template|on this table]], copied from the [[Template:Summer 2021 Pack Unusual effects|Summer 2021 one]] (just an example of many: [[Unusual effects]]). This table doesn't use parentheses, which are different in the chinese language. What do you think? Thanks. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 17:44, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
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== Where can I interact with the community? ==
  
:{{pro}} Great idea, though I think it's best to keep "RED" and "BLU" black instead of team-colored. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 17:52, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
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Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.
::Removed the colors, thanks :D [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 20:28, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 
  
== Gallery images that show what's visible during normal gameplay ==
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[[User:QS Quark|QS Quark]] ([[User talk:QS Quark|talk]]) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
  
I believe such images should not be included in galleries, as they show what can already be seen in-game during normal gameplay, has already been described in the description, and can be considered an equivalent of [[obvious]] trivia ("Something that is inevitably discovered simply by playing the game or casually studying the subject in question").
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:You can join the [[IRC]] if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
  
I'm talking things like the back of the [[Bolshevik Biker]], which everyone who is or meets a Heavy wearing it can see, not things like the back face of the [[Snowwing]], which is usually blocked by the Scout's backpack. - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 17:26, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
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== April fool's? ==
  
:I think one thing that might be neat is displaying the back in the infobox image as well as the front (if necessary), as that's what it's for anyways. Although I'd say it'll have to be a case-by-case basis, the Bolshevik Biker already has the workshop image showing the back too. I'd say either do what I said or remove them altogether if it's obvious in gameplay (although do note that the trivia guidelines don't apply outside of trivia).<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) 17:27, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
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I've been absent a bit because of health issues lately, sorry, but I noticed there's no April Fools thing this year there? :(--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
  
== First rank for the [[Spirit of Giving]] is not being translated to other languages ==
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: Probably, yes. Since I didn't notice anything relate to April fools event other than the page itself (normally there will be someone create a April fools sandbox page before April fools event).[[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 03:45, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
  
Despite added translations, the first rank is not changing its name for other languages. This happens to all languages. Changing the name in [[Template:Spirit Of Giving ranks]] from 'none' to its correct name from [[Template:Dictionary/items#Strange ranks]] returns red link. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 20:01, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
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::The only thing that was planned was a patch, no other efforts were made, unfortunately.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 08:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 08:17, 2 April 2024


Dark Mode

I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Valve Store

The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal

Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the Robot Chicken Hat page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes (Cotton Head, Brotherhood of Arms, etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model

Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the Soldier's Stash, Horrible Horns on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin (Texas Half-Pants, Millennial Mercenary's Streaming 2Fort style, Exquisite Rack, Battle Bob's With Helmet style, Bacteria Blocker's Headphones style, etc).

Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on Decorated Veteran since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).

Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.

Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.

Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The Mann-Bird of Aberdeen looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like Team Captain for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I would support every page having both team colours.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Articles for individual environmental hazards

Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: Ghost, Pumpkin bomb, Saw blade, and Train.

These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "[Train horn noises]". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the Environmental death article.

I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to Pitfall.

As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:

  • Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
  • Create a separate page for that (similar to the Item timeline pages).
  • Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).

I am ok with Skeletons and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).

Opinions? - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to List of game modes, where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by == Section title ==) would be a "complete" article.
Tiagoquix (talk) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

A request

In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because Classic and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use {{ucfirst:<string>}} to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, {{ucfirst:hello world}} generates Hello world.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Could you help me with this? I've changed it in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{lang}} template instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
I already did it once and... User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{lang incomplete}}?
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with this edit? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link [[VintageVintage]].
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history

I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. The American Boot (talk) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed Trivia guild.Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard (talk) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The Art Pass Contest page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts

I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the Lollichop, which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the Third Degree and Neon Annihilator, which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the Cow Mangler 5000, Scottish Resistance, and Ullapool Caber, which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the Vita-Saw, which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.

I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.

Speaking of the Pyro taunts page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization

'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

See Dictionary common strings.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work

[[1]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nonolemage (talk) • (contribs) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC

Please sign your messages using ~~~~.
The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc

Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:


1) Implement a way on the Item infobox template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:

a) The Heavy variant of the Team Captain only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.

b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of Close Quarters Cover, include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME.

c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the Dead Little Buddy have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO.

d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the Jumper's Jeepcap would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like Mustachioed Mann, would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like Carl that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.


2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.


3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo


4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see this page). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK

a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.


5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, Main Cast would look like this: https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs.


6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the Robot Chicken Hat page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like Dead of Night wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.

Edit: Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally looked like this. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.

I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.


7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, Brawling Buccaneer would have its Painted variants table from {{Painted variants}} to {{Painted variants full}}, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.


8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as Manndatory Attire, Beaten and Bruised and Boarder's Beanie‎), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6


Edit: 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. Manndatory Attire has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.

a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.

b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like Onimann mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.


Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
4/5. I like this.
6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{Tabs}} template for it.
7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{Tabs}}.
9. See answer on 1.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram plus.png Agree - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
2 / 3 Pictogram question.png Not sure / changes - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree - This also looks nice.
5 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.
6 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
7 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
8 Pictogram plus.png Agree / changes - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
9 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.
Andrew360 Edit icon.png Speech typing.png Photo Badge Decal Example.png 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
2 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Good idea!
3 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Yes.
5 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
6 Pictogram plus.png Agree - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
7 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Same with Andrew360
8 Pictogram question.png Not sure - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{Tabs}}?
9 Pictogram question.png Disagree.. or Sorta Agree - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard (talk) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
2 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I wanna see how it would look first.
3 Pictogram plus.png Agree - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
4 Pictogram plus.png Strongly agree - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
5 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I like the idea, but it will take a lot of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
6 Pictogram question.png Not sure - Same answer as 5.
7 Pictogram plus.png Agree - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
8 Pictogram minus.png Somewhat disagree - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
9 Pictogram minus.png Strongly disagree - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
ShadowMan44 (talk) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.
However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.
GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.
GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the Boarder's Beanie paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.
My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.
ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.
Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something Liquor Locker, Pocket-Medes, etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.
Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like Manndatory Attire and Boarder's Beanie wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?
ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the Dead of Night and Pocket-Medes. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
So Tekinz and Mgpt talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:
Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.
mgpt:
Pictogram plus.png Agree 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";
Pictogram plus.png Agree 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 4. You got my vote, very good;
Pictogram minus.png Disagree 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;
Pictogram info.png Info 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in Brigade Helm? If so, I don't see a problem;
Pictogram info.png Info 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;
Pictogram info.png Info 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of Beaten and Bruised, the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;
Pictogram info.png Info I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:
7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of Stout Shako;
7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. Post-thoughts: After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.
8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the Boarder's Beanie images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.
9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 Pictogram question.png Not sure It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.
2/3 Pictogram plus.png Agree It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)
5 Pictogram minus.png Disagree On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.
6 Pictogram question.png Not sure I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.
7 Pictogram question.png Not sure I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.
8 Pictogram plus.png Agree I agree with the others on this point, {{Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.
9 Pictogram minus.png Disagree See #8
H20verdrive (talk) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:
1. Pictogram plus.png Agree Very good stuff.
2. Pictogram question.png Abstain Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.
3. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.
4. Pictogram plus.png Agree Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.
5. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree Seems alright.
6. Pictogram question.png Abstain It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.
7. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.
8. Pictogram plus.png Agree Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.
9. Pictogram minus.png Weak Disagree As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.
Overall, if I had to give a vote for the whole package, Pictogram plus.png Agree, with tweaking.--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:
Suggestion 1 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 7 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 2 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 7 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 3 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 9 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 4 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 10 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 0
Suggestion 5 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 4 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 4 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 6 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 4 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 4
Suggestion 7 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 8 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 8 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 8 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 9 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 2 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 3 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 4

My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Userbox, and creator page

Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? Nonolemage (talk) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

For userboxes see Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{User infobox}}.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Help:Images may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using the upload page. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include [[Category:User images]] in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.
As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! Nonolemage (talk) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Civilian Image

Should we change the image of the Civilian ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found Nonolemage (talk) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, Civilian (Classic) is the TFC version.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Weapon in user page

Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? Nonolemage (talk) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, you could try learning how to use wikitables, there are also templates like Template:Backpack item and Template:User weapon checklist you could use to this effect.
Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Allweapons Nav template

Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current Allweapons Nav template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on my sandbox user page (Nav 1 and Nav 2). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! Mgpt (talk) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences Mgpt (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. Mgpt (talk) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.

Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."

  • That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
  • It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
I made some changes, thanks for the input Mgpt (talk) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make as much sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... Mgpt (talk) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Updated the template Mgpt (talk) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

About the 2023 leak

Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) Nonolemage (talk) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the leaked content policy. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) Nonolemage (talk) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! Nonolemage (talk) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Community Medal Nav (closed)

I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance Mgpt (talk) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Would adding an 'Other' section with two links for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "Competitive play" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?
Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion Mgpt (talk) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). — Tark 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not exactly the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what I wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then that's wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely.
Cheddar (talk) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.
I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.
Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. — Tark 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.
I would fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. Mgpt (talk) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
That didn't matter when some of those event pages, for years, had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a new nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.
Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
closed given the recent discussion Mgpt (talk) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Trivias without confirmations

Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
What about this one? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data

It seems like a very handy feature (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?
I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe Darkid?
Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

For the first result it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. Jh34ghu43gu (talk) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
I can take a look, thanks for the ping. Darkid « TalkContribs » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.
I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. Darkid « TalkContribs » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

A technical request for "Used by" template

"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "{{Used by|all}}" and "{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}" sound fine, but "{{Used by|all-except|" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "{{Used by|all-except|"):

Scout = Skauta
Soldier = Żołnierza
Pyro = Pyro
Demoman = Demomana
Heavy = Grubego
Enginner = Inżyniera
Medic = Medyka
Sniper = Snajpera
Spy = Szpiega

User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. I've moved it there. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Where can I interact with the community?

Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.

QS Quark (talk) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

You can join the IRC if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

April fool's?

I've been absent a bit because of health issues lately, sorry, but I noticed there's no April Fools thing this year there? :(--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Probably, yes. Since I didn't notice anything relate to April fools event other than the page itself (normally there will be someone create a April fools sandbox page before April fools event).Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 03:45, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
The only thing that was planned was a patch, no other efforts were made, unfortunately.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 08:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)