Difference between revisions of "Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion"

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== Are we hosting April Fools this year? ==
  
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I know that it's 3 months early to be talking about this topic, but is an April Fools event going to be hosted this year? I'd love it if one is; because I've actually already prepared a draft of the patch notes that are open to the public [[User: SkyTBM/april1st2017sandbox|here]]. They're set for Open Review, the summary has said nothing but to edit them and help to expand, and I want this event to happen. [[User:SkyTBM|SkyTBM&#59; inexperienced TF2 Coach, seeking out for the greater good.]] ([[User talk:SkyTBM|talk]]) 16:55, 4 January 2017 (PST)
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: Hi. Keep in mind that a simple update page will not be enough, we would need real content. I have tried to revive this project since 2015 but I failed both times, sadly, last year we managed to get together and gather some interesting ideas, but we did not succeed because of lack of content. Anyway, if you want to see our ideas and the update notes from last year please click [[User:Tark/April|here]] and [[User:Tark/April/Notes|here]]. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 23:18, 5 January 2017 (PST)
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:: Yeah, I know Patch Notes won't be enough. Luckily, I wasn't planning for just patch notes. I have links on the page to content pages (such as weapons and taunts). Not created yet, but that's what I need help with. <span style="font-family:TF2 Build">[[User:SkyTBM|SkyTBM]]</span> added the preceding potato comment. ([[User_Talk:SkyTBM|Talk more about potatoes]] | [[Special:Contributions/SkyTBM|Contribs]]) 17:40, 7 January 2017 (PST)
  
== PlayStation Button Templates ==
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== Sometimes my edit bar has a seizure. ==
  
Hey. I had a look on the [[Taunts]] page, realizing a very minor issues with the button templates.
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Here's what it looks like https://youtu.be/ZlFXMp1MAAE
  
1)Wiki rules donot allow images in text, so all buttons should belong in template form, as it wont be accesible to everyone easily.
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Not a common occurrence, but definitely also not rare. [[User:Anyar|Anyar]] ([[User talk:Anyar|talk]]) 10:02, 20 February 2017 (PST)
  
2)The PlayStation ones would look more appealing and more familiar to players if it were changed from this : [[File:PS Button Square.png|20px]] to [[File:PS Button Square V2.png|20px]]. If this is accepted. I will make the background of the button transparent.
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:From what I have experienced, the "edit bar" automatically adjusts when it can't fit everything in your current browser window.  I have come across this once before if you make the window full screen / reload the page it should go away.  If not, try closing your browser entirely, then open it back up again.  The program isn't perfect.  [[Image:User Twolfe Signature.png|25px]] ||  [[User:Twolfe|twolfe's page]]  ||  [[User talk:Twolfe|twolfe's talk page]] 10:08, 20 February 2017 (PST)
  
Notes:
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::Oh. I often switch between a 1920x1080 monitor and a 1366x768 one. That must be it. Thanks! [[User:Anyar|Anyar]] ([[User talk:Anyar|talk]]) 11:05, 20 February 2017 (PST)
*The file is a .PNG
 
*The square is the same one as before
 
*The circle is made by me
 
  
That's all, thanks. --[[User:DiscoDiva|DiscoDiva]] ([[User talk:DiscoDiva|talk]]) 01:06, 21 August 2013 (PDT)
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== Sometimes my wiki layout messes up. ==
: Would have been easier to have just uploaded over the previous version instead of having 2 different ones. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 02:18, 21 August 2013 (PDT)
 
::He wanted to check if it was good first. It would be ideal, as DiscoDiva said in 1) for this to work similarly to [[Template:Key]], and thus be a template. However, some nicer images are never bad. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Swagman's Swatter.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Triad Trinket.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 06:04, 21 August 2013 (PDT)
 
:::So shall I get going and make the ''nicer images'' in a template form? No worries, I know that stuff. Just wanted an approval.--[[User:DiscoDiva|DiscoDiva]] ([[User talk:DiscoDiva|talk]]) 23:15, 22 August 2013 (PDT)
 
::::By "template form" I meant without images--i.e. a "square" character on a black background, or something. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Swagman's Swatter.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Triad Trinket.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 06:52, 23 August 2013 (PDT)
 
:::::Yeah, I'll make the template pages, so they are accesible to however wants to use by just writing the text. Shall I proceed? --[[User:DiscoDiva|DiscoDiva]] ([[User talk:DiscoDiva|talk]]) 09:41, 23 August 2013 (PDT)
 
::::::[[w:WP:BeBold|WP:BeBold]]! Go for it. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Swagman's Swatter.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Triad Trinket.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 09:51, 23 August 2013 (PDT)
 
  
Okee doke. I uploaded the new versions and made the separate template pages for the first batch of buttons. You can see my work here and add anything that would help and make it more convenient, if you wish.
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Unlike the edit bar seizure, this one has only been happening recently, and doesn't seem to be limited to one monitor resolution.
*[[Template:PS Square]]
 
*[[Template:PS X]]
 
*[[Template:PS Circle]]
 
*[[Template:PS Triangle]]
 
There are still a few format issues on the template page, though. --[[User:DiscoDiva|DiscoDiva]] ([[User talk:DiscoDiva|talk]]) 23:46, 31 August 2013 (PDT)
 
:I changed from normal link to wiki link one, please use <nowiki>[[ and ]]</nowiki> to create the link that're in this wiki. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 00:23, 1 September 2013 (PDT)
 
::I now realize that I didn't make myself clear--I was hoping for one template, like {{tl|Playstation Button}} which took a parameter (Square, X, Circle, Triangle). Templates are nice for shortcuts, but if they transclude an image then certain things (like width, alt-text, etc) can't be set.  [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Rebel Rouser.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Awesomenauts Badge.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 12:25, 1 September 2013 (PDT)
 
:::As in merging them in one template page? Well, I did tried that, but I decided to what I was able to do better. Atleast they are there. --[[User:DiscoDiva|DiscoDiva]] ([[User talk:DiscoDiva|talk]]) 06:24, 3 September 2013 (PDT)
 
::::I merged them quickly into one template and you can find the result from {{tl|PSTemplate}}. Due to quick merge its name is what it is and it just directs to those PS Square, X, etc templates at this moment, but those can be quickly changed if needed. -[[User:Asplode|Asplode]] ([[User talk:Asplode|talk]]) 07:41, 3 September 2013 (PDT)
 
: I've gone ahead and merged this all into {{tl|PS Button}}. Please try not to over-think templates, it will save you headaches in the long-run. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] ([[User talk:I-ghost|talk]]) 14:43, 31 October 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== Adding file names to items ==
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Usually it looks like this: [https://s27.postimg.org/6wagw4lkj/layout_1.png]
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Rarely, it changes to this, often when I refresh the page, get an error, and refresh again.
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[https://s28.postimg.org/q6ub5uru5/layout_2.png]
  
Should we add where items can be found in the files to hats and weapons pages? A lot of the files are counter-intuitively named and it makes it hard to find particular items in Source Film Maker. [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] ([[User talk:Guybrush20X6|talk]]) 08:13, 3 September 2013 (PDT)
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What is this? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Anyar|Anyar]]''' ([[User talk:Anyar|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contribs]]) </small>
: I think that adding that information to every single weapon and item page might be worth less than the time it takes to do it; however, if you'd be willing to meet halfway and have a single page with all of that information listed (basically a list of the names, images, and location of the weapon/item in question) in a nice template, I'd love to have that resource around. [[User:Sven|~Sven~]] ([[User talk:Sven|talk]]) 08:16, 3 September 2013 (PDT)
 
:: Yes, it's called the item schema. This discussion has been shot down before. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] ([[User talk:I-ghost|talk]]) 14:43, 31 October 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== The Wiki Cap: Recognition or Reward? ==
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:The wiki is currently experiencing some internal errors, which is why the formatting breaks. [[File:User_Wiki_Pan_backpack_fryingpan.png|40px|link=]][[User:Wiki Pan|<font color="8650AC"><big>'''WkPn'''</big></font>]] <small>'''('''[[User_talk:Wiki Pan|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Wiki Pan|contribs]]''')'''</small> 05:54, 21 February 2017 (PST)
  
I've been hearing a lot of chatter recently (and in general, too) about people who hop on the wiki and try to get a Wiki Cap. These people tend to be misguided, assuming that they can do this quickly and with little effort, but it raises a larger question: Is the Wiki Cap viewed as recognition for one's work on the wiki, or is it a reward to encourage editors? (Alternately, both.)
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::Not just me then? Yeah, this happens after the page saying there's internal errors. [[User:Anyar|Anyar]] ([[User talk:Anyar|talk]]) 06:05, 21 February 2017 (PST)
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:::This encounters fairly regularly since Valve is neglecting the tf wiki and its servers. — shots fired by: [[User:Nikno|Nikno]] <small>'''{'''[[User talk:Nikno|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Nikno|Contribs]]'''}'''</small> 06:12, 21 February 2017 (PST)
  
I feel like this question merits some discussion on the wiki, but I also looked to see what the current opinion seems to be. In other words, I calculated some statistics about the 144 current Wiki Cap owners. The raw data is [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuHbrmtLttZXdFBXUEMwV0RSVjJSbnJ6SVdKZFMxMkE#gid=0 '''here'''], but before getting into that I'd like to summarize some key results:
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==Romanian translators anyone?==
# A large majority of users (83%) who get a Wiki Cap lose interest in editing afterwards, that is to say their edits per day drops by a factor of 3+ (I.e. from 10 edits per day to 3 edits per day).
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<b>Are there any romanian translators out there that are still active and willing to give me a hand?</b>I mean, I don't know if you guys have noticed, but there seems to be a lack of my kind around these parts... -- [[User:Je love prajitura :D|Je love prajitura :D]] ([[User talk:Je love prajitura :D|talk]]) 09:58, 20 March 2017 (PDT)
# Of this majority, a further 18% (15% overall) stopped editing completely, which is to say their edits per day dropped by a factor of 100+ (From 10 edits per day to 1 edit per 10 days).
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:Hello. A lot of languages are lacking translators. We'd be much obliged if you contribute to the Romanian section or recruit more translators. There's no active Romanian translator despite you currently. — shots fired by: [[User:Nikno|Nikno]] <small>'''{'''[[User talk:Nikno|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Nikno|Contribs]]'''}'''</small> 10:22, 20 March 2017 (PDT)
# A mere 9 users (6%) showed an increase in edit rate after getting a Wiki Cap. Of these 9 users, 5 showed increases in editing by over 50% (From 10 edits per day to 15 edits per day).
 
Some general notes about this data:
 
* The data is compiled from [http://stats.wiki.tf Wiki-Fi] and reflects the accuracy present there.
 
** As a result, the data is only accurate to 3 decimal places due to the accuracy of the cumulative edits statistic on stats.wiki.tf.
 
* This table does not account for the fact that editors may not have started editing when they created their account, or that they may not have been editing actively until a few months after their first edit.
 
** As a result, editors who had long "dry" stretches at the beginning of their wiki lives may have under-represented productivity drops, as their productivity prior to getting a Wiki Cap will be under-represented.
 
* Wiki Caps were decided to be awarded at some delay to them being received.
 
* Certain users had Wiki Caps awarded to them based on work unrelated to editing. This affects only 3 users as I see, and should not have too great an impact on the overall data.
 
  
This data seems to imply that the Wiki Cap is a reward, but the question still remains if this is the correct mindset.
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== Where do people get the class images from? ==
<br />[[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Das Hazmattenhatten.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Robro 3000.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 12:55, 15 September 2013 (PDT)
 
  
: It can be the golden fleece for all I care if it properly incentivizes useful contributions to the wiki. In the end this is more valuable than a single given person quitting editing after they get one. Recognition, reward, bragging rights. It's all the same in the end as long as it compels people to be useful. Even considering the people that think there is some kind of magic number of edits and that it's the same thing as a promo item and their edit quality reflects that mindset, their collective contributions probably outweigh what a single person could do. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 13:24, 15 September 2013 (PDT)
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For each cosmetic's article, the gallery contains images for each of the 9 classes, all wearing the cosmetic. Where did they get that image from? Or, how did they make it? ⇒[[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|16px|link=]] [[User:Anyar|<span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: TF2 Build">Anyar</span>]] ([[User_talk:Anyar|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contributions]]/[[User:Anyar/No|giveaway]]) 13:33, 16 April 2017 (PDT)
:: By the time somebody actually achieves the Wiki Cap, they have already done so much for the Wiki that they wouldn't even need to contribute anymore. While it's sad to lose such a helpful editor, they've already dramatically improved the Wiki to the point that they feel like their duty is complete. Although this isn't true for translators and the like (because how many people who speak Japanese are playing TF2?), on the English Wiki things will manage fine without them. After all, how many people would actually be on the Wiki if it wasn't for the hope of a one-of-a-kind cap? --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 14:09, 24 September 2013 (PDT)
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:Those images are usually created with HLMV, please see [[Help:Model Viewer]] for more information. [[File:User_Wiki_Pan_backpack_fryingpan.png|40px|link=]][[User:Wiki Pan|<font color="8650AC"><big>'''WkPn'''</big></font>]] <small>'''('''[[User_talk:Wiki Pan|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Wiki Pan|contribs]]''')'''</small> 14:00, 16 April 2017 (PDT)
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::Oh, thanks. I didn't manage to check for your reply, sorry for late response. ⇒[[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|16px|link=]] [[User:Anyar|<span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: TF2 Build">Anyar</span>]] ([[User_talk:Anyar|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contributions]]/[[User:Anyar/No|giveaway]]) 16:16, 21 April 2017 (PDT)
  
== Crafting Australian Christmas and Pyromania item set hats ==
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== What is A TF2 Community? ==
  
The hats and cosmetics associated with these sets have only been recently instated as being part of an actual set:  
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Hello, I am New to this group And I think i have all my solutions to TF2 Here, But for Now I just wanted to ask What is A TF2 Community How can i join one? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Trump|Trump]]''' ([[User talk:Trump|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Trump|contribs]]) </small>
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:The tf2 community is simply the name of all the fans and the things related to tf2 that aren't ingame. [[User:Padacuw|Padacuw]] ([[User talk:Padacuw|talk]]) 18:29, 20 June 2017 (PDT)
  
<code>Big Chief, Scotch Bonnet, Berliner's Bucket Helm, Fed-Fightin' Fedora, Dillinger's Duffel Bag, Helmet Without a Home, Captain's Cocktails, Liquidator's Lid</code>
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== Should we delete unused user page files from long-gone users? ==
  
Can anyone confirm that their crafting recipes exist as well? e.g. 4 Refined Metal and set weapon creates the hat
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A rather sizable number of wiki users haven't been on since 2013 at the latest, and have many unused user page files. Should we delete these files?
  
[[File:User_Upgrade_Signature.png|link=User:Upgrade]] 13:33, 17 September 2013 (PDT)
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[[User:Jboby1|Jboby1]] ([[User talk:Jboby1|talk]]) 15:48, 3 September 2017 (PDT)
:When I go into Fabricate Set Headgear, the game allows me to use the caber (big chief) crossbow (bucket helm), so I assume it works. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Dragonborn Helmet.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Pyrotechnic Tote.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 13:58, 17 September 2013 (PDT)
 
::There was a note on the Big Chief discussion page about the crafting page recognizing the blueprint, but not following through after pressing Craft. I can't seem to find where crafting recipes are located in the schema files and I'm not sure if people want to actually use metal for this. [[File:User_Upgrade_Signature.png|link=User:Upgrade]] 14:19, 17 September 2013 (PDT)
 
:::They are not in the schema, they are server-based (much like crate unboxing). Thus, it's quite likely that if a bug becomes documented, valve can fix it on their end. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Dragonborn Helmet.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Pyrotechnic Tote.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 18:03, 17 September 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== Strategy section overhaul ==
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:What if they come back?
  
I'd really like to start an effort to reorganize the whole of the strategy pages as much of the data in them is out of date and I don't think they're organized very efficiently anyway. There's a lot of redundant - and possibly conflicting - info. The current system is:
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:I'm fine with deleting talk pages for users who are inactive and don't have a user page, or just the user page of anyone who has been inactive for years and only has a few edits (that were all made within the same timespan).
  
* '''Basic Strategy''' - General class strategy and basic weapon tactics. It's all fairly brief and highly curated; "official" in a sense.
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:In other words I'm mostly against user pages that took a lot of effort to make, because it'd be discouraging to come back and find that gone. Thoughts? ⇒[[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|16px|link=]] [[User:Anyar|<span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: TF2 Build">Anyar</span>]] ([[User_talk:Anyar|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contributions]]/[[User:Anyar/No|giveaway]]) 17:01, 3 September 2017 (PDT)
* '''Class Match-Ups''' - How that class fares ''against'' any other class, also fairly succinct.
 
* '''Anti-Class Strategy''' - Info for going up against a class and their weapons. Another "basic" article.
 
* '''Community Strategy''' - Class strategy, weapon tactics, match-ups ''against'' classes, pairings ''with'' classes, loadout recommendations... All less monitored but more detailed than the previous three.
 
  
It seems really inefficient to lump all the scattered community data into one page but have the brief "curated" stuff in separated pages when they could fit in one page much more easily than all the community stuff while remaining easy to monitor and keep up-to-date. Thus, I propose:
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: {{c|oppose}} [[w:Sometimes They Come Back (film)|Sometimes They Come Back]] ... (How come I didn't get one of those "He has risen!" do-hickies, TidB? (oh, riiiiight) ;) ... Really, it doesn't hurt anything to leave it all up, there is no valuable benefit to deleting, and it takes labor to decide if the page really should be saved or not, so on the whole, no I see not justification to delete. There is the tradition and policy that no one edits someone else's user space as long as it is conforming to the wiki's policy, and there was no Delete if Inactive Policy at the time of posting. Moreover, Anyar, the one thing that should never be deleted is Talk space, as it is the most formal record of collaboration, and IMO, the oldest records of collaboration are the more valuable, more so if the participants are now inactive. Yes, I know there is a lot of junk images, but that is a matter of opinion, and a lot of just simply unused images, but in the latter only the OP (or admin with cause) should delete it, and under the license, I'm not event sure that is proper. [[User:Mikado282|Mikado282]] ([[User talk:Mikado282|talk]]) 19:27, 3 September 2017 (PDT)
  
* '''Overall Strategy''' - A merge of the basic strategy and class match-up articles, along with new "general" class pairing info and basic weapon loadout examples (stock loadout, defined sets like Special Delivery or Hibernating Bear). The data from the anti-class page would also be merged in by not only providing strategy ''for'' each weapon in their sections, but also against it, eliminating the need for a separate article. A "cheat-sheet," if you will.
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::I meant the talk pages with the only content being the autowiki bot's welcome message. Don't the pages take up space or something? ⇒[[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|16px|link=]] [[User:Anyar|<span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: TF2 Build">Anyar</span>]] ([[User_talk:Anyar|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contributions]]/[[User:Anyar/No|giveaway]]) 12:23, 4 September 2017 (PDT)
* '''Community Tactics''' - Community class strategy and weapon tactics. Should be much easier to manage if it's just in its own article, and keep track of when data becomes outdated. Like the new overall data page, would also contain data ''against'' each weapon as well as for it.
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:::This wiki runs on a toaster with lots of space. The deletions could theoretically be worse than having those pages. — shots fired by: [[User:Nikno|Nikno]] <small>'''{'''[[User talk:Nikno|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Nikno|Contribs]]'''}'''</small> 08:05, 5 September 2017 (PDT)
* '''Match-Ups/Pairings''' - The match-up/pairing info from the current community pages. Each article is into two halves: match-ups against enemy classes, and pairing tactics with friendly classes.
 
* '''Loadout Recommendations''' - A page for community loadout recommendations. Each recommendation has a title or brief description, the loadout, an explanation, and both the name of the submitter and the date of submission, in order to gauge how up-to-date a recommendation is in light of ongoing balance patches.
 
  
But yeah. Basically group all the "general" data while the community data is split up into pages. [[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 03:20, 18 September 2013 (PDT)
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I think you all are misunderstanding my question. I'm asking if we should delete the files that were uploaded by a long-gone user for their userpage, but were never used, or are no longer used. Im not saying we should delete entire userpages.
:The only issue with this major grouping is the page size. One of the reasons I still (rarely) use the strategy pages is because I can quickly find the relevant counter-class or counter-weapon strategy. I'm not sure if this is just me, but with this rework, try to keep in mind readability. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Dragonborn Helmet.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Pyrotechnic Tote.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 05:39, 18 September 2013 (PDT)
 
::{{c|Support}} This overhaul would be an extremely clean way to display all of the relevant information, unlike the clutter we have now. --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 16:34, 21 September 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== Eradicating the <code><nowiki><tt></nowiki></code> element ==
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[[User:Jboby1|Jboby1]] ([[User talk:Jboby1|talk]]) 20:31, 3 September 2017 (PDT)
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:Those unused user files don't hurt as long as they're named correctly. If you want you can of course flag them for deletion if they're unused, but I wouldn't suggest to waste time on it. — shots fired by: [[User:Nikno|Nikno]] <small>'''{'''[[User talk:Nikno|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Nikno|Contribs]]'''}'''</small> 01:05, 4 September 2017 (PDT)
  
The <code><nowiki><tt></nowiki></code> element is a presentation element and fails to indicate the semantic context of the contents. As such it has been removed in HTML 5.[http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/obsolete.html#tt]
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== Team Fortress discord server ==
  
I want to clean the wiki of it and replace it with semantic markup instead. But it is a big job and I can't do it alone.
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I am currently in the process of making  a tf wiki discord server that wiki contributors can talk and discuss things similar to the irc.  i am asking for ideas that can be used for the discord server.  any ideas that are part of the final server will be listed in a special chat along with the person who came up with said idea.  i am also looking someone who could make a logo for the discord server.  i am not sure when i will release it but when i do (thats if i ever do) i will announce it in a new discussion along with a link to join it. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Neon man909|Neon man909]]''' ([[User talk:Neon man909|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Neon man909|contribs]]) </small>
  
Can I please get some help?
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:I'm not sure if that's needed. Personally I like Discord better, but when I proposed the idea of moving from IRC to Discord I got completely shot down. Apparently the differences are that Discord has a cleaner and fancier UI, but IRC has better customization and all that.
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:FYI you made the same topic twice so I deleted the second one. ⇒[[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|16px|link=]] [[User:Anyar|<span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: TF2 Build">Anyar</span>]] ([[User_talk:Anyar|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contributions]]/[[User:Anyar/No|giveaway]]) 07:07, 8 October 2017 (PDT)
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: It would probably support your argumentation to present a pro/contra list, since staff doesn't see much pro's in Discord over IRC. — shots fired by: [[User:Nikno|Nikno]] <small>'''{'''[[User talk:Nikno|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Nikno|Contribs]]'''}'''</small> 22:48, 8 October 2017 (PDT)
  
I first want to find a list of suitable replacements. Marking everything with <code><nowiki><code></nowiki></code> elements is not optimal here. We want templates like [[template:cvar|Cvar]] that can be given complicated code as needed.
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== Multi-Class images ==
  
Only after the correct replacements are figured out can a proper cleanup be done.--[[User:Henke37|Henke37]] ([[User talk:Henke37|talk]]) 12:47, 18 September 2013 (PDT)
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I've been thinking about multi-class images. I feel like we should just have one class in the infobox, like the all-class images.
:What kind of markup are we talking about here? --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 13:57, 24 September 2013 (PDT)
 
::All copies are gone now, except for minor sandbox pages. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User_talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 08:10, 26 March 2014 (PDT)
 
  
== About quotes ==
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Having 2-4 classes all standing next to each other looks kind of messy and squashes the image too much.
  
''Moved from [[User talk: Hinaomi|User talk:Rikka Takanashi]]''<br>
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For example, the [[Deadliest Duckling]] just has one class. If we had just one class, I feel as if it would be neater and more consistent with everything else [[File:User Bojjob Userlink.png|link=User:Bojjob]] 02:36, 14 October 2017 (PDT)
Most of the quotes on the wiki are supplemented by a little extra detail, perhaps to add context or to make a joke to an otherwise empty phrase. However, not all of the quotes on the hat and weapon pages has that additional wording, especially on some of the older pages. Naturally, this creates a problem with consistency. I wanted to fix the consistency issue by adding in more information to these quotes not only to make them more appealing, but to keep every page on the Wiki on an equal level. In this case, it is very necessary to add in extra details for the sake of improving the Wiki. You don't have a problem with this, I assume? --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 17:22, 18 September 2013 (PDT)
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: {{c|Support}} Sounds good. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 06:32, 15 October 2017 (PDT)
:I don't think so. Why we need to add little extra information? Also on the page that added to make it "not same" as another page that use the same quote or the quote that can't fit with the article. Those pages I removed because the quotes already fit the page, no need to expand. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 17:30, 18 September 2013 (PDT)
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:: [[File:Socked and Loaded.png|thumb|120px]]{{c|Neutral}} Multi-class images (e.g. the one to the right) look alright to me, but so does the one for Deadliest Duckling. Your call. [[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|16px|link=]] [[User:Anyar|<span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: TF2 Build">Anyar</span>]] ([[User_talk:Anyar|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contributions]]/[[User:Anyar/No|giveaway]]) 07:01, 15 October 2017 (PDT)
::It's just a formality. We need to add information to make it more professional. If nobody needed to add any more information to the end of quotes, then why do we have them on such articles like the [[Crafty Hair]], the [[Dillinger's Duffel]], and the [[Bolt Boy]]? It's because not only does it tie into TF2's comedic and not-so-serious universe, but because at the end of the day it just looks better. It looks like more work has been put into the article, just by adding in one sentence. It works wonders on adding a little more to the already-bare cosmetic pages, and it's painless without causing any trouble. Just because something doesn't need to be done, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Look at the [[Glossary of Player Terms]], for example. We could manage just fine as a Wiki without adding in that page. But we did, and it's one of the most useful pages on the Wiki by rounding out it's general content. I really don't see a problem here. --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 17:41, 18 September 2013 (PDT)
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::: {{c|Support}} I like the idea. However, I think the limit should be at least two classes. [[File:User_Wiki_Pan_backpack_fryingpan.png|35px|link=]][[User:Wiki Pan|<font color="8650AC"><big>'''WkPn'''</big></font>]] <small>'''('''[[User_talk:Wiki Pan|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Wiki Pan|contribs]]''')'''</small> 07:55, 17 October 2017 (PDT)
:::I think we should move this thread to General discussion to make it more clear, should we? Because I never think it's necessary unless it needs to specific to fit the items like [[Spy-cicle]] ("I see spy!" is not fit unless we added that the Heavy played pun to "Icy spy!") [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 01:36, 19 September 2013 (PDT)
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: {{Comment}} How about a slow transition between single-class images. MediaWiki has an [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:JavascriptSlideshow extension that does exactly this]. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 14:36, 26 October 2017 (PDT)
::::It was a good call moving this to the general discussion. Clearly we weren't going to settle this on our own. For the reasons stated above, I'll have to add in my {{c|Support}}. --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 14:58, 19 September 2013 (PDT)
 
::::{{c|Oppose}}, with reason above. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 16:49, 19 September 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== Create a standardized format for the Community Strategy articles? ==
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== Voice actor link proposal ==
  
Some of my favorite articles on the Wiki to read and edit are the Community Strategy Pages. However, I've noticed that they're a bit of a mess. The formatting and style is very inconsistent with one another, with sections and content having different names and placement. It annoys me that there isn't much consistency for such an important part of the Wiki. It's time to create a format that will lessen confusion among readers who go through the strategy pages often, and to make things nice and organised for all. I've developed the following format for strategy pages that combines all of the content from all 9 class pages that I think will work well. Of course, it isn't set in stone.
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If a voice actor has a Wikipedia page, link to that (with <nowiki>[[wikipedia:<NAME>|<NAME>]]</nowiki>) instead of IMDB. This would affect all articles about characters with voice actors as well as [[Voice actors]]. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 14:43, 26 October 2017 (PDT)
  
'''''Lead section''''' Paragraph and summary about the classes specific playstyles and unique abilities, as well as the general specs of each one (E.G. health, speed, etc.). The goal is to provide a brief overview of the class in a more in-depth summary than the classes main pages, without going too into detail so it isn't hard to read through.
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== Skins and Stranges ==
  
'''1. Quick Tips''' Little "Protips" specific to the individual class. These provide little bits of strategy that the basic player can understand and carry out. They're like the in-game tips that you see on the bottom-left corner of the load screen.
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Valve's addition to weapon retextures to Team Fortress 2 did seemingly spark some controversy at first, with TF:GO spreading rapidly, and it has been mostly accepted by the community. But did Valve really incorporate this in a way that will benefit their users? I'm not whining about the need to buy keys to open reward crates received through contracts after getting a pass for them, but I do want to address the topic of strange items, stat-clocks and strangifiers and how they 'interact' with war paints and skinned items. To get the topic out of the way, the addition of the civilian grade clock to add strange qualities to your 'common' skins was a nice idea, sure, let's add some value and desire to the lower end of the skin spectrum, but not adding them for the other 'not crate' grades is quite strange. In my opinion, this lack additions decreases value from all other grades of skins, aside from ones which can aquire strange status through key requiring crates. For example, why should I buy or try to obtain a war paint for my scattergun to change its visual appearance if I cannot put it on my strange variant? It seems like a waste, especially considering people will be purchasing war paints to put on their favourite weapons which are likely in strange quality, and few people are going to want to turn down their Hales Own rocket launcher for a default rocket launcher with a changed texture. I believe, to fix this, war paints should either be usable with strange weapons, or, stat clocks should be added for freelance and mercenary grades alongside the civilian grade, to make these variants of weapons more appealing to the community (heads up Valve, this means community market purchases! Yay!).  
  
'''2. General''' These are general bits of strategy that aren't weapon specific but apply only to abilities that the specific class can carry out or will find use in. A Soldier general tip shouldn't apply to the Pyro, etc. This section leads into the next section.
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Who knows, maybe it's just me. But I'm sure that it would be a great addition to the game, considering the past few major updates have included new items which would benefit greatly from said change. Who knows, another somewhat minor update with some additions may also breathe some more life back into the trading community.
:'''2.1 ''Class specific ability #1'''''
 
:'''2.2 ''Class specific ability #2'''''
 
:'''2.3 ''Class specific ability #3''''' These 3 subsections are designed to provide more in-depth strategy about the classes' specific abilities in a detailed and specific way. The goal is to only take the abilities that the specific classes will find a use for (E.G. Build locations for the Engineer, Headshots for the Sniper, Rocket Jumping for the Soldier) and create much more detailed strategies for them that other classes won't be able to make use of. Obviously we're not going to make a section about jumping for the Heavy because he almost never jumps in combat, but a section about jumping for the Scout will be extremely useful because jumping is one of the Scout's main combat strategies.
 
'''3. Weapon Specific'''
 
:'''3.1 Primary Weapons ''(except Spy)'''''
 
:'''3.2 Secondary Weapons'''
 
:'''3.3 Melee Weapons'''
 
:'''3.4 Secondary PDA ''(Spy only)'''''
 
:'''3.5 Buildings ''(Spy only)''''' These subsections are designed to provide more information and strategy about the specific weapons that the class uses that wouldn't apply in general strategy. The first sentence would be an overview about the weapons stats, and the rest of the section would be the actual strategy and tips. The Spy is a special case because he has no primary weapon, but instead has Sappers and Watches to talk about.
 
'''4. Buildings ''(Engineer only)''''' The Engineer's buildings are obviously very different from the weapons he uses, so obviously they get their own sections and strategy.
 
:'''4.1 Sentry Gun'''
 
  
'''Level 1'''
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Thanks for reading my post. Opinions and feedback would be warmly welcomed, preferably without a side of salt or death threats. Thanks,
 +
[[User:EJB9|EJB9]] ([[User talk:EJB9|talk]]) 08:38, 11 November 2017 (PST)
  
'''Level 2'''
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== Difficulty logging in ==
  
'''Level 3'''
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So far, I have only been able to log in on mobile after much refreshing. I have been unable to log in on desktop and pages take a while to load.
:'''4.2 Dispenser'''
 
  
'''Level 1'''
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Every attempt to log in results in an error message, “Team Fortress Wiki uses cookies to log in users. You have cookies disabled. Please enable them and try again.”
  
'''Level 2'''
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In addition, average number of edits per day seem to have gone down dramatically over the past three days.
  
'''Level 3'''
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[[File:User_Upgrade_Signature.png|link=User:Upgrade]] 17:14, 20 November 2017 (PST)
:'''4.3 Teleporter'''
 
  
'''Level 1'''
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: We have experienced this on and off again the last couple years. The senior editors seem to understand it a bit better <u>than I</u>.
  
'''Level 2'''
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: Preview seems greatly slowed this time.
  
'''Level 3'''
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: Yes, I have used mobile editing as a workaround to the log on issue. On the desktop, when repeating the login attempts does not get around the false cookie issue, opening the wiki in another window sometimes shows that I am logged in even though the first window is telling me to try again.
:'''4.4 Combat Mini-Sentry Gun''' These sections are supposed to provide placement and maintenance strategies for the specific buildings and levels. As the Engineer's buildings level up the strategies change as well. The Engineer article should be more accommodating of these minute differences in building strategies and not just group all 3 levels together.
 
  
'''4. Taunt attacks''' Much like the weapon strategy above, but only for specific taunt attacks.
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: A couple months back, when this was really bad, ICS noticed it and told me that they would talk with somebody at Valve, and overnight, things greatly improved (coincidence?) in time for a few weeks of pre-Halloween editing.
  
'''5. Weapon Combinations''' This section focuses on weapon loadouts and specific strategies for use with them, much like we already have.
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: Now that the Jungle Infrerno Update is dying down .... [[User:Mikado282|Mikado282]] ([[User talk:Mikado282|talk]]) 05:15, 21 November 2017 (PST) 11:09, 21 November 2017 (PST)
  
'''6. Class Priority ''(Medic, Sniper, and Spy only)''''' The Medic, Sniper, and Spy play much differently than the other classes, where they have to choose what classes they target in order to ensure positive results. Because of this, it would be beneficial to the strategy page if the 3 classes had a numbered list of classes that they need to target first so that they know what the best classes to kill/heal would be.
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:: The tip I forgot: Using the "keep me logged in" option avoids the log in problem, once you get in. Just take pains to not forget you password through the resulting non-use. [[User:Mikado282|Mikado282]] ([[User talk:Mikado282|talk]]) 11:09, 21 November 2017 (PST)
  
'''6. Cooperative Class Strategies''' This section is designed to create new strategies that are specific to teamwork with 2 or more players of different classes. They involve thinking outside of the box, encouraging team play, and making comparisons between two classes in a unique way.
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== Teamfortresswiki discord server ==
  
'''7. ''Other class specific strategies''''' Sometimes we can't say all that we can about a class in just 6 sections. Sometimes we need to go further to go more in detail about the class, such as with the Spy. If it is necessary, we can add in these strategies somewhere within the article, not necessarily #7.
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Hi, for the past 3-4 months on and off i have been working on a tfwiki discord server, atm it is prety basic, but i would like some people to join and maybye give feedback, help out and just is genral be helpful. Even though it is not necessary to make such server, i have been bored and its been a fun journey so far
  
Of course, this is just my idea. But I hope that we can work together to revitalise and reinvent the Community Strategy Pages so that they can be restored to their former glory. --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 12:24, 24 September 2013 (PDT)
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https://discord.gg/DZmKRNN
:Looks like you've put a lot of thought into this layout, and the strategy pages really could do with an overhaul. Maybe if you could try throwing together an example page in your own namespace so more people can see how it would look? '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 03:36, 25 September 2013 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Agree|Agree'd}} The Community Stratedgy articles are the most messy ones, if I were a staff member, I'd give this the green light! [[File:Critical hit.png|19px]] [[User:RobTheStarCollector|Star]][[User_talk:RobTheStarCollector|Horder]] [[File:Critical hit.png|19px]] 08:24, 25 September 2013 (PDT)
 
:Like Cooper Kid said, I want to see it on the page rather than in comment. I can't imagine clearly. And RobTheStarCollector, next time use {{<nowiki>c</nowiki>}} template instead of Pro and Con one. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 08:48, 25 September 2013 (PDT)
 
::Alright everybody, it's all in the works. I'm making a markup in my user namespace and it will be done when I have an hour of free opportunity. It should be complete in a few hours at this time of posting, but I'm just letting you know that I am working on it. I really appreciate the support though! --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 11:14, 25 September 2013 (PDT)
 
:::[[User:Enthers/Community Strategy Template|I've finished up the example!]] I've added in relevant information in bold. I can re-write the whole Spy article to fit in with this template, but I just need permission to go ahead and do that. What does everybody think? --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 17:42, 25 September 2013 (PDT)
 
:::Also, if this goes until Monday with no objections, I will go ahead and implement this to the articles. After a thorough rewrite of course. --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 07:28, 27 September 2013 (PDT)
 
::::I question the need for a template--as opposed to {{tl|Match-Up}}, there's negligible formatting--but the formatting is good overall. I question (for engineer) the need for subheadings for different levels of anything but sentries. TOC limit is fun, but the most useful subsection headers are probably the weapon subheaders.  Also specifically, how is an engineer a more important target than a medic? [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Brotherhood of Arms.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Koala Compact.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 07:49, 27 September 2013 (PDT)
 
:::::Now, this isn't a template per say. It's a guideline that I just whipped up together in my user space. It's used to help us with rewriting the strategy pages without being cast in stone. I mostly copied what the strategy pages already have while reformatting it myself, so it isn't meant to be a re-write yet. Also, if there's an Engineer on the enemy team you're not going to waste time on the Medic, you're going to sap all of his buildings and kill him. --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 08:33, 27 September 2013 (PDT)
 
Standardizing the formatting is a good idea, but may I recommend combining this with my categorization suggestion above so that all the community stuff isn't lumped together. You were already in support of that, right? [[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 16:18, 29 September 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== 503 errors everywhere! ==
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[[User:Neon man909|Neon man909]] ([[User talk:Neon man909|talk]]) 05:31, 14 January 2018 (PST)
  
From any device I use, the site takes like 3 minutes to load and frequently gets 503s. Either it's just me, or the wiki needs a fix. Sometimes I accidentally make double edits or it never submits. [[User:ErnieTheGreatest|ErnieTheGreatest]] ([[User talk:ErnieTheGreatest|talk]]) 18:14, 31 October 2013 (PDT)
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Hi there,
: Can't do much about it. Its site traffic. Either wait or edit at a later time. There really is no fix. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 18:16, 31 October 2013 (PDT)
 
:: This happens every major update. Wait a few days for it to pass. [[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 02:41, 2 November 2013 (PDT)
 
:::This has been happening way before the major updates--in fact, I'd associate the time with when we upgraded mediawiki (although I doubt this *caused* the problem). [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Grenadier's Softcap.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Professor's Pineapple.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 09:24, 2 November 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== Renaming ''Scream Fortress 2013'' to ''Helloween Special'' ==
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It appears that you have created this kind of topic before, which has already been discussed; see [[TFW:Discussion#Team Fortress discord server]]. I'd also recommend you to take down said server, as it would be considered unofficial. Thanks. [[File:User_Wiki_Pan_backpack_fryingpan.png|30px|link=#]][[User:Wiki Pan|<font color="8650AC"><i>'''WkPn'''</i></font>]] <small>'''('''[[User_talk:Wiki Pan|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Wiki Pan|contribs]]''')'''</small> 06:02, 14 January 2018 (PST)
  
Similar to how last year's Spectral Halloween Special was taken from the subtitle, I figured we'd keep things consistent by also doing the same thing this year instead of the generic title we have now. I actually tried to do this myself, but I'm pretty green when it comes to MediaWiki workings so I've been [[User_talk:VinLAURiA#Halloween_2013_Changes|told]] that my method was a very crude and tedious "brute force" method and that I should've asked for consensus first anyway. So, yes? No? [[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 07:29, 6 November 2013 (PST)
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== How to make articles ==
: I'm fine with renaming. Scream Fortress is to generic anyways. Just need a Bot to do all the changes and its all good really. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 19:28, 9 November 2013 (PST)
 
::What changes? All we need to do is move the update pages, nav templates, and categories. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Bot Dogger.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Lieutenant Bites the Dust.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 12:23, 10 November 2013 (PST)
 
::: ... I blame Ashes. [[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 18:39, 10 November 2013 (PST)
 
:::: Yeah, But using a bot would be more useful as we're moving hundreds of pages, templates and categories, Including translations. So a Bot would be more reasonable for a task like this. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 18:44, 10 November 2013 (PST)
 
::::: [[:Category:Scream Fortress 2013]] [[:Template:Scream Fortress 2013 Nav]] [[:Scream Fortress 2013]] [[:Scream Fortress 2013/cs]] [[:Scream Fortress 2013/de]] [[:Scream Fortress 2013/fr]] [[:Scream Fortress 2013/pt-br]] [[:Scream Fortress 2013/ru]] [[:Scream Fortress 2013/zh-hant]]. Any others? [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Philateler.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Ready Steady Pan Participant.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 18:56, 10 November 2013 (PST)
 
:::::: Not that I'm aware of. As I said elsewhere, I'm fairly certain changing the categories in the navigation templates would update all the appropriate pages without the need for bots. [[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 18:06, 11 November 2013 (PST)
 
:Is there a reason not to use the official update name instead? [http://www.tf2.com/history.php tf2.com/history.php] lists it as 'Scream Fortress V'. — [[User:Armisael |'''Armisael''']] <small>([[User_talk:Armisael |T]] · [[Special:Contributions/Armisael |C]])</small> 19:16, 10 November 2013 (PST)
 
:: The same thing could be said for last year's special, which was officially Scream Fortress IV. The point is they're more distinct this way; just numbering them generically is pretty bland. [[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 16:54, 11 November 2013 (PST)
 
:::They're more distinct, but is it actually useful? I have no idea what year the Very Scary Halloween special was without looking it up (or what it was about) - I consider them more informative. And yes, we would want to change the name of last year's halloween special as well, but as noted above, that's not that difficult. — [[User:Armisael |'''Armisael''']] <small>([[User_talk:Armisael |T]] · [[Special:Contributions/Armisael |C]])</small> 22:11, 11 November 2013 (PST)
 
::::That's not necessary. In many of the cases where more than one Halloween special is mentioned - such as the nav templates - there will usually be the year in parenthesis or some other mention of where each one falls in order with the others. Not only would "Scream Fortress #" be more generic, it'd be redundant. And from memory, the Very Scary Halloween Special was 2011's battle against MONOCULUS! It's really not that hard to remember. [[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 22:14, 12 November 2013 (PST)
 
:::::If I'm user, I prefer the way to easy to remember the name, like The Forth Anniversary of Scream Fortress. The specific name like Very Scary Halloween Special can make me confuse with another Halloween Update. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 03:17, 13 November 2013 (PST)
 
  
So... should we do a vote, then? 'Cuz I'm saying {{c|Support}} [[User:VinLAURiA|VinLAURiA]] ([[User talk:VinLAURiA|talk]]) 07:11, 22 November 2013 (PST)
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I just joined the wiki, and I would like to know how to submit an article for the mod Lambda Fortress. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Youporkchop5|Youporkchop5]]''' ([[User talk:Youporkchop5|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Youporkchop5|contribs]]) </small>
  
== Golden Frying Pen 22 November 2013 ==
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:Hello Porkchop :) I'd advice you to read about article creation either [[Help:Editing|here]] or [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=974408397 here]. Have fun. PS: Don't forget to sign off your comments with 4 tildes. [[User:Faghetti V.2|Faghetti V.2]] ([[User talk:Faghetti V.2|talk]]) 00:49, 22 January 2018 (PST)
  
Здравствуйте дорогие участники! Я в конце каталога нашел оружие ближнего боя "Золотая сковорода".
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== How do you change the title of an infobox? ==
Ребят, это новая вещичка или я туплю? В интернете про нее ничего нету!
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Hi, I am trying to translate the smissmas cosmetic articels into german but I dont know how to change the title of the infobox and were do you get the inventory pictures?
Hello dear... players? I've just found a golden frying pan in the end of catalogue Mann Co!
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When you take a picture of a cosmetic you didnt make can you still upload a picture of it? [[User:Timmy the mini|Timmy the mini]] ([[User talk:Timmy the mini|talk]]) 16:26, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
Is it new item or i am a just slowpoke? There is nothing in Internet about that!
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# I would connect with the [[Help:Language translation|Translation Community]] (I'm not there; I only [[:Template:User Heavy correcting|translate English]]), but I think the autotranslation of the title in the infobox is sort of template-controlled.
:See [[Golden Frying Pan]]. <div style="display:inline-block; padding:0px 3px; font-weight:bold; border-radius:5px; color:#32CD32;background:#24201B;">[[File:Item icon Market Gardener.png|19px|link=User:Zabidenu]] Zabidenu</div> <small>([[Special:Contributions/Zabidenu|contribs]] [[User talk:Zabidenu|talk]])</small> 05:40, 22 November 2013 (PST)
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# Inventory Pictures? not me. Usually I find that someone already has uploaded it, especially by the time you are translating.
 +
# What you can upload: [[Help:Images]] Certainly anything under some sort of Valve license -- anything you see in the game. Are you worried about something you found on someone's Workshop page?
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# Oh! Wait! Here! [[Help:Cosmetic Images]].
 +
:[[User:Mikado282|Mikado282]] ([[User talk:Mikado282|talk]]) 00:58, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
  
== An official 'Update Checklist' ==
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== Adapting Wikipedia Visual Editor ==
  
This wiki has gotten very complex over the years, and one of the greatest complexities, mixed with the largest scrambles, and one of the easiest entry points for new users is updates. They're frequent, but the things they modify are so stretched out these days that invariably, even the most experienced editors forget some detain in some template somewhere. I propose, to be added to the Help: namespace, an update checklist which will allow users, new and old, to ensure that no nuance of any update is missed. I have mocked one up [[User:Darkid/Update Checklist|here]], and although it likely has inaccuracies, I feel that it is close enough to complete to warrant possible submission. What do you all think of the idea/my mock-up? [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Proof of Purchase.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Cap'n Calamari.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 04:21, 23 November 2013 (PST)
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Is there a way to make it so we can edit using the Wikipedia Visual Editor? That would be a great way to edit easier. [[File:User_BrofessorBeta_SignaturePic.jpg|30px|link=User talk:BrofessorBeta]][[User:BrofessorBeta|<font color="328C9E"><big>'''BrofessorBeta'''</big></font>]] <small>'''('''[[User_talk:BrofessorBeta|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/BrofessorBeta|contribs]]''')'''</small> 16:56, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
: I'd add the following for the weapons / etc. that mess around with a classes health, speed:  [[Template:Metrics/Speed]], [[Template:Metrics/Health]], [[Template:Class health table]], [[Template:Class speed table]], since those hide the 'hidden math voodoo' of the game --[[User:Org|Org]] ([[User talk:Org|talk]]) 11:25, 23 November 2013 (PST)
 
::Done. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Proof of Purchase.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Cap'n Calamari.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 11:30, 23 November 2013 (PST)
 
Well I guess I'll put this to formal vote, since there was no discussion.
 
{{C|agree}} It's not clear, even to experienced editors (like me!) what to do every update. Certain pages which should be maintained (like {{tl|Itemcount}} and {{tl|Dictionary/quad}}) have fallen behind, due to obscurity. A formal list of what to do will solve both of these problems, as well as simplifying what needs to be done every update--People can just read off the list. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Sober Stuntman.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Das Metalmeatencasen.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 11:06, 30 November 2013 (PST)
 
: {{C|agree}} This would be a pretty useful thing to have too, as long as the checklist covers some more stuff, like the painted variants section of the page, and the lists of paintable items. It can be pretty hard to work out what things need to be done with updates, especially when new items are added, or there are significant changes needed to existing pages. --[[User:Omolong|Omolong]] ([[User talk:Omolong|talk]]) 11:11, 30 November 2013 (PST)
 
: {{C|agree}} Poot. '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:83%;">—[[File:User Moussekateer signature sprite.png|31px|link=User:Moussekateer]][[User:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black">Moussekateer</span>]]·[[User talk:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]]</span>''' 11:19, 30 November 2013 (PST)
 
Ok, pushing to [[Team Fortress Wiki:Update Checklist]]. I will also update {{tl|TFWiki navbar}}. If someone could put a mention of it somewhere in the Help Center, that would be great. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Sir Shootsalot.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Cold War Luchador.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 01:32, 5 December 2013 (PST)
 
  
== Pages for Mann vs Machine upgrades? ==
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== Error in the Wiki ==
  
I was thinking that MvM upgrades deserve their own pages, especially for stuff like disposable sentries and the projectile shield, because I can't find any info about it. I'd be more than glad to make a few pages myself about what I do know.
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For some reason, there is a floating "more" just below the arrow next to "view history", is this supposed to be there?
  
Thanks for reading.
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== Portal Wiki Down? ==
<small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Oscarvdhooft|Oscarvdhooft]]''' ([[User talk:Oscarvdhooft|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Oscarvdhooft|contribs]]) </small>
 
:[[Upgrade Station]] [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Proof of Purchase.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Cap'n Calamari.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 13:10, 24 November 2013 (PST)
 
  
NOT what I meant. Actual pages for invidual upgrades, clearly describing their mechanics. Complex upgrades like projectile shield, knockback rage and disposable sentries could use their own page because there is no info on it anywhere.
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For the last week, I've tried to acess the Portal wiki using the VWN link at the bottom of the main page. It appears to be down. Has this been happening for a while, or is it a new problem? Or, worse case scenario, is it not just down, but entirely defunct? [[User:Jboby1|Jboby1]] ([[User talk:Jboby1|talk]]) 05:57, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
<small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Oscarvdhooft|Oscarvdhooft]]''' ([[User talk:Oscarvdhooft|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Oscarvdhooft|contribs]]) </small>
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: Regarding this, I can confirm that thePortalWiki is still down. Someone please fix. I know I'm not active at all on the TF2Wiki anymore but I'm a moderator over there and want to keep working on things. [[User:Sven|~Sven~]] ([[User talk:Sven|talk]]) 22:23, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
:Please remember to sign your posts with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. I feel like, although important upgrades, they would only constitute around a paragraph of detail (Minisentries especially do not need much explanation). This information could be easily put on that page, if you would like to add it. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Sober Stuntman.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Distinguished Rogue.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 12:31, 27 November 2013 (PST)
 
  
Signing? How does that work? And the disposable sentry gun is actually different from the regular mini sentry gun. I still believe that upgrades like the projectile shield deserve their own page because there is much more than a paragraph about it. I unfortunately can't add anything about it because I don't know anything about because- you guessed it, there's no wiki page and I don't know how I can access and understand TF2 coding, while others do and could write a page about it.
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== List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects ==
  
<small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Oscarvdhooft|Oscarvdhooft]]''' ([[User talk:Oscarvdhooft|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Oscarvdhooft|contribs]]) </small>
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I have started a list [[User:Mikado282/List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects|List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects]]. This is in part for my own interests, but also as an orientation for new editors. The intention is to make this [[Team Fortress Wiki:List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects]]. I would appreciated comment. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|talk]]) ([[User:Mikado282/To Do|To Do]]) 23:09, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
: Giving a page for every single upgrade would be pointless. It would more less clutter. Its easier to compile it all into one page which we already have anyways. Just saying. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 08:56, 28 November 2013 (PST)
 
:: Wiki editing is mostly done in WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get). If you can provide the text for the pages, someone else can deal with the formatting. By signing, I only mean ending your post with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
 
::[[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Sober Stuntman.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Das Metalmeatencasen.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 10:47, 28 November 2013 (PST)
 
  
Well I'm not the best writer or formatter for that matter, but what I wanted was more of a request for people to make them. As of now there is no information I can find on the projectile shield, and I'd like to learn about its mechanics.
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== TF2's Halloween Paintings ==
  
[[User:Oscarvdhooft|Oscarvdhooft]] ([[User talk:Oscarvdhooft|talk]]) 23:59, 30 November 2013 (PST)
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First post here, but anyone know how to get the Halloween paintings images? Or do we already have them archived here or something? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1544349505 is the type of stuff I'm talking about. I've been looking for this image for ages, but just now figured out where I remember it from (in-game obv). Is it possible to get the picture? Or maybe upload start a wiki page about the paintings Valve made for Halloween?
:Blocks bullets and projectiles, deals typeless (bison) damage on contact. Builds from healing/overhealing. Upgrading increases degree coverage, duration, and build rate. A formal paragraph would add numbers to all of this (degrees up/down, etc). I can do this, if you like. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Sober Stuntman.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Das Metalmeatencasen.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 00:03, 1 December 2013 (PST)
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:If you mean the actual file used for the painting, you could extract its texture from {{code|tf2_textures_dir.vpk}} [[File:Killicon_baleful_beacon.png|45px]]<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS, cursive, sans-serif; color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  08:04, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
:: Would it not easier to just add this information onto the [[Upgrade Station]] page. Since that's where all upgrades are listed. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 10:49, 1 December 2013 (PST)
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::[[:File:Portrait 1 skin 1.png|Here you go]]. I believe this was a texture extract, but I can look it for you later. Enjoy. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:12, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
  
== Currently no Page for Heart of Gold ==
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::: As far as an archive goes, there is no Category AFAIK for textures as such.  I wish there was a Category for all textures organized by source (sounds like a ''Project'' to me), but as it is, the many images that have been uploaded are scattered in many different categories under [[:Category:Images]]. Were you only interested in the that one portrait?  Other paintings uploaded from from Mann Manor are in [[:Category:Mann Manor images]]. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small>  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|talk]]) ([[User:Mikado282/To Do|To Do]]) 14:26, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
  
This item has been around since the 11/26/13, yet no one has created a page for it. Is there not sufficient information about the item or is everyone waiting for someone else to make the page? Neither one seems likely since the TF2Wiki has a large community and many people take responsibility. Also, pages are created and allowed to stay for things we ''barely'' know about. I'd gladly make the page myself but I'm not really sure how or what to do in order to create an acceptable page, or why it's not being done in the first place. --[[User:Shnowshner200|Shnowshner]] ([[User talk:Shnowshner200|talk]]) 19:53, 28 November 2013 (PST)
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== Trivia related to original workshop description/names, as well "SFM Promo Images". ==
:Must have been overlooked in the recent bustle of edits still being made to the large MvM patch. I will create the base page now. '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:83%;">—[[File:User Moussekateer signature sprite.png|31px|link=User:Moussekateer]][[User:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black">Moussekateer</span>]]·[[User talk:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]]</span>''' 20:04, 28 November 2013 (PST)
 
:: Okay, thanks. --[[User:Shnowshner200|Shnowshner]] ([[User talk:Shnowshner200|talk]]) 20:08, 28 November 2013 (PST)
 
  
== Update, please, [[Main Page/ru]] ==
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Hi, I've noticed an abundance of information regarding the original workshop submission since 2014 throughout today. For quite some time, information regarding the original workshop content weren't exactly valid trivia (save for a few, usually related to styles not included). However, I feel like most of these trivia related to the original desc/name should not be in here. I will separate them in each category, as well giving my view on each of them (if I support it, or not):
  
[[Image:User talstas discussion main page.png|500px]]
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<hr>
Up - RUS VERSION
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* {{c|Addition to Steam Workshop Thumbnails on the class gallery}}
Down - EN VERSION
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** {{c|+|This has been a standard for quite some time now. It makes easier to extinguish Valve-made content from Community-made content just by scrolling to the gallery. I agree in keeping it.}}
:A good spot to post this request would the [[TFW:Translators' noticeboard|Translators' Noticeboard]]. Nobody here can really help with that request--only one of the russian translators can. If it's a seriously outdated main page (it looks rather alright, btw), then you might post on an active russian editor's talk page. However, keep in mind that translation is by volunteer only--if someone does not want to translate the page (because it's a lot of work) they don't have to do so. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Sober Stuntman.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Das Metalmeatencasen.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 11:35, 30 November 2013 (PST)
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<hr>
 +
* {{c|Addition to images featuring the Item Set ("SFM Promo") from Item Sets that were accepted officially (found on [[Item Sets]] only, does not count items that has the same theme, but doesn't have official item sets)}}
 +
** {{c|+|I agree on the addition only for actually fully-accepted item sets. The image can be from the SFM promo artwork (usually found on a Item Set collection from the Workshop), and the image should only be included on the related Item Set page, and should not be added to each individual item page}}.
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Addition to images featuring the Item Set ("SFM Promo") from items that share similar looks / items that originated from a collection, but were not added as a full Item Set by Valve}}
 +
** {{c|-|This one I vote for no, there are a ton of cosmetic items that were made to go with Item Sets, that simply got their items added separately, or got only few of the items accepted. Right now, the Wiki has some cosmetic pages with these images, while a lot of other does not have. It's very inconsistent right now, and I feel like these aren't really needed, one can just visit the Workshop submission to see those}}
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Addition to "SFM Promo Art" for any cosmetic item, not related to item sets or unofficial item sets}}
 +
** {{c|-|Disagree. Again, this is really inconsistent across the Wiki, majority of the cosmetic pages does not have SFM Promo Item related to the cosmetic, while some, do. An example of one that has is the [[Vampire Vanquisher]]}}
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Trivia/Notes information regarding "This X Item was submitted along Y, Z items".}}
 +
** {{c|-|Disagree. In the past, something similar was made regarding to this, there were a lot of Trivia based on original item sets from the workshop, but all of those were moved to Notes instead. It seems now that there's a whole batch of trivia information about the same thing, mostly because new users added to the Trivia, and not to a new Notes section. I vote for neither keeping on the Trivia, or the Notes page, considering the dense amount of cosmetics we now have on TF2, it would be just too much to edit or to add it in. I have other suggestions to mention the other similar items}}
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Add a new section called "Related Items" on cosmetic pages.}}
 +
** {{c|+|Add a section below the Update History that includes links to related items from unofficial sets, this is not needed for official sets since these already have a table to go with}}.
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Trivia regarding old Workshop names and descriptions}}
 +
** {{c|-|I disagree. This has been for quite some time not enforced as valid Trivia, but, it has been seeing a lot of amount of attention lately with the newer cosmetics. I think it's a bit of a stretch Trivia related to an item's original name, or description. Considering that those are community-created, the authors has any freedom to add what they want, while in-game... some names and descriptions requires changes to sometimes suit the game better, or to avoid copyright issues. Right now, there's way too much information regarding old workshop name/desc, way too much.}}
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Workshop "blurb" for cosmetic's quotation}}
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** {{c|-|Disagree. This was rarely used in the past, and would only be used for few cases where no interesting voice lines could be used to a cosmetic, however, recently, a lot of the newer cosmetic pages have only the "blurb", and in most of times, it's from here where people make Trivias related to the original Workshop descriptions. I think it's better left without any quotation (in case no voice line was chosen), than to use the workshop "blurb"}}.
 +
<hr>
  
== More info on the comics? ==
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Please leave your thoughts below on what you think, do you agree with the suggestions I made above, or do you have another look on those? If you agree on all the purposed changes, please add a comment with the {{c|+|-}} (<nowiki>{{c|+|}}</nowiki>) attached to your comment, if not, add {{c|-|-}} (<nowiki>{{c|-}}</nowiki>) instead. If you want to simply discuss or suggest something else, please use the {{c|?|-}} (<nowiki>{{c|?}}</nowiki>) for that.
  
I was wondering if we should have a section on character pages that explains their roles in the comics. I know one guy was saying most gamers don't focus on the comics, (I had put this topic on the wrong page earlier) but I still feel like it's important.
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Thank you. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 18:41, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Almost all other wikis explain other sources, as well.  Sure, there's not a lot of story to the comics, but lately they've been making a story arc, '''(spoiler alert)''' after Gray took over Mann co. and the mercs got fired, and now Miss Pauling has to find them. '''(end of spoilers)'''
 
There aren't a lot of comics now, but they are being posted, so if we wait for there to be a long, big story, then by then there would be a lot of catching up to do.
 
--[[User:PyroGothNerd|PyroGothNerd]] ([[User talk:PyroGothNerd|talk]]) 11:58, 23 December 2013 (PST)
 
: Eh... Wouldn't say it's really needed since you could incorporate it on the [[Non-player characters]] page. Under their name just add to it. As long as it is canon really. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 12:55, 23 December 2013 (PST)
 
  
But I'm talking about the player- wait. Do you mean put the player characters as they appear in the comics in the non-player characters since inb the comics they aren't characters?
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: I broadly support Gabrielwoj's comments, so far as they apply to Cosmetics pages, as long as it is understood that Cosmetics pages aren't particularly my focus. Hoewever,  
....
 
That could get confusing. --[[User:PyroGothNerd|PyroGothNerd]] ([[User talk:PyroGothNerd|talk]]) 14:57, 23 December 2013 (PST)
 
:: Oh i see where your getting at. You're referring to the nine classes correct? If so, Kinda pointless there really. Wouldn't see the need to. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 15:05, 23 December 2013 (PST)
 
But some information in the comics aren't in the games, like how Demoman's Mom always gets on him about getting a job (even when he was a kid, sheesh) or how the Scout has a crush on Miss Pauling. --[[User:PyroGothNerd|PyroGothNerd]] ([[User talk:PyroGothNerd|talk]]) 18:19, 23 December 2013 (PST)
 
  
== /ukr ==
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:* {{c|Addition to Steam Workshop Thumbnails on the class gallery}}
  
Should we translate the wiki into Ukrainian? You know, TF2 just got ukrainian localization files. - \[[User:TheGuy299|<span style="color:black">theguy299</span>]]\[[User talk:TheGuy299|<span style="color:black">talk</span>]]\[[Special:Contributions/TheGuy299|<span style="color:black">contribs</span>]]\ 08:33, 14 January 2014 (PST)
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::* {{c|+|I didn't mind this, and assumed it acceptable, and also saw it as incidentally promoting the successful projects (e.g., Frontline and Mayann). A can accept that some can see this being abused, but haven't experienced that myself.}}
  
:yay no answer - \[[User:TheGuy299|<span style="color:black">theguy299</span>]]\[[User talk:TheGuy299|<span style="color:black">talk</span>]]\[[Special:Contributions/TheGuy299|<span style="color:black">contribs</span>]]\ 05:12, 19 January 2014 (PST)
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:* {{c|Trivia regarding old Workshop names and descriptions}}
Well, if TF2 Community decides to create Ukrainian version of Wiki, I'll gladly help to expand it. [[User:XLVIII]] [[User talk:XLVIII]]
 
::See [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Discussion/Archive_13#Pirate_Wiki|here]]. Just because STS supports a language doesn't mean we do. If you can get enough support (probably 3-5 editors, committed for around a year), then bring this topic back up again, talk to an admin, they'll get the relevant things set up. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User_talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 09:17, 23 January 2014 (PST)
 
== Sheen on Killstreak Weapons ==
 
  
Hi there people of the wiki!
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::* {{c|-|I disagree. I didn't think this wasn't being enforced, I see such Trivia being deleted, and have deleted it when I caught it.  Mind you, in this Event, I haven't monitored the new cosmetic pages, and I haven't checked the Jungle Inferno cosmetics for this violation.}}
  
I recently got an idea of a new section that would be good to add to each weapon.
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:* {{c|Add a new section called "Related Items" on cosmetic pages.}}
The sheen from professional, or specialized killstreak weapons does not always appear on each of the weapons. I believe that a section on each weapon that told weather or not the sheen shows on the weapon would be good to have.  
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:** {{c|-|I disagree. If I understand you correctly, you want to use such a section to show the relationship of items that were proposed as a set but set not released as a set.  I don't see this as important enough to mention anywhere.  If certain of such items are particularly famous, then links in See also could be sufficient. }}
  
Another good section to have on each of the weapons would be one that explained where the sheen appeared on each weapon.
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:* {{c|Workshop "blurb" for cosmetic's quotation}}
I have noticed that on many of the professional killstreak items the sheen only appears on one part of the weapon. For some weapons, you can  not see the sheen on them in first person, while you can only see the sheen in third person.
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:** {{c|+|I opposed a blanket prohibition of Workshop "blurb" for Cosmetics. OK, yes I may concede that using the Workshop "blurb" is an abusable "easy out". While I do not care for whole cloth copying of ''huge'' amount of Workshop blurb, I strongly oppose any suggestion that the quotations draw from voice lines <u>only</u>; IMO, ''any'' Valve content is acceptable as long as it conformed to [[Help:Style guide/Quotes]]. As long as it is a good Quotation, it is far better than an unrelated Voice line. Note, my exposure to the use of Workshop blurbs (limited to maps) is to selectively crop the best parts. To put a fine point on it, I see no necessity that a Voice line be part of a quotation. Certainly, Comic dialog should be acceptable.}}
  
It would be good if everyone could help get together a list of each weapon where the sheen does not show, and where the sheen does show for each weapon. I have seen many situations where someone trades a fair deal of keys for a specialized or professional killstreak weapon, and once they get the weapon and don't see the sheen, they get extremely upset.
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: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small>  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|talk]]) ([[User:Mikado282/To Do|To Do]]) 14:36, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 +
<hr>
  
Having a list for this would be very helpful.
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::Thanks for your views on it, very interesting takes.  
  
Thanks people of the wiki!
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::To reply a few of your questions... The trivia/information about old name and desc has been scattered throughout a lot of pages, some even on the older item pages, while others in the more recent items. Example of an old item is... (well, it seems that was removed from time, it was on [[Scout Shako]] mentioning about the item's name and the original workshop description), while examples for new items are [[Athenian Attire]], [[Hephaistos' Handcraft]] and [[Olympic Leapers]].
  
Here is the link for the list so that you can add, or change it:
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::About the See Also, I think it's okay right now, as you mentioned. However, I've seen some pages just putting cosmetic items that are from the same "hat type" or style, for example, [[Compatriot]], most of the links there on See Also are simply due to an item having an "eagle" on it. I think we shouldn't do that and only focus as how you explained to us. The idea of "Related Items" should probably not be added, but we shouldn't also add too much on the "See Also" section.
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Killstreak_weapons_sheen
 
<small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Alienboy567|Alienboy567]]''' ([[User talk:Alienboy567|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Alienboy567|contribs]]) </small>
 
: Not really needed honestly. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 09:38, 15 January 2014 (PST)
 
  
== Possible user page template ==
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::I agree on your view on the blurbs. Although, I still see some pages which could have used quotes, but still goes with the blurb. I guess we could use the blurb for placeholders, until someone has a nice and creative quote to put it there. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:38, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi everyone, long time no see.
 
I have made [http://lex.xsustudios.com/tf2-wiki-profile/ this html document] ([http://lex.xsustudios.com/tf2-wiki-profile-responsive/ responsive versions for tablets and mobiles]) because i wanted an updated look on my user profile... but then i thought... why can't we have it as a template that everyone can use? i would like to make it with wiki syntax and document it so everyone can have a snazy steam community looking userpage.
 
  
point being, what are your thoughts.
+
::: The quotes are an attractive nuisance; nubeditors think they do a service by adding one. I had assumed that nubs were just slaping weak at best viocelines on cosmetics, using the blurb for cosmeticts I haven't seen. Is that new to the SF2018 Cosmetics?
i am also open to suggestions as i may have missed some core features of a wiki user page.'''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 08:38, 17 January 2014 (PST)
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::: Sometimes the blurb is pretty good.  
:On the one hand, it looks awesome and it would be handy to have a template that new users can use to spruce up their userpage. On the other hand ... we could end up with everyone using the same template. The amazing variety of userpage designs makes each one unique, and a lot of people enjoy personalising their own page. A big template like this might make things too ... generic, if you know what I mean. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 08:19, 18 January 2014 (PST)
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::: Aslo, nubs, if you are using a blurb, there is no rule saying you have to use the whole blurb. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small> '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|talk]]) ([[User:Mikado282/To Do|To Do]]) 04:43, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
  
== "unofficial/community" banner ==
+
::::I see. But we still can use quotes from Official Videos or Comics, I've seen those before. There's a lot of variations to use it too. But yeah, blurbs has the advantage of being quick and able to use specific parts of it.
  
We need a banner like that for stuff like [[Convoy]] like I've mentioned in the talk page of Convoy.
+
::::Yes, that's for the new SF2018 cosmetics, these are just an example, because there are several other examples throughout the Wiki.
This would alert people that the information they are about to read isn't official such as the fancy vs nasty thing or the guard dog thing. Otherwise it makes it look like a real thing in the game. Hell, why are unofficial maps even in here? This is the TF2 Official wiki...
 
We don't need UNOFFICIAL ITEMS on this wiki
 
but if we're going to have them, we need a "COMMUNITY-CREATED" banner
 
Anyone? [[User:ErnieTheGreatest|ErnieTheGreatest]] ([[User talk:ErnieTheGreatest|talk]]) 22:00, 18 January 2014 (PST)
 
: Dont' think its really needed. The description saying "community created" in the actual article is enough. A banner isn't really needed. IMO [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 22:06, 18 January 2014 (PST)
 
: ‎ [[User:‎ClockworkSpirit2343|ClockworkSpirit2343]] just did a nice job adding a banner to unofficial map pages! hooray! [[User:ErnieTheGreatest|ErnieTheGreatest]] ([[User talk:ErnieTheGreatest|talk]]) 23:12, 18 January 2014 (PST)
 
  
== TF wiki logo ==
+
::::I think we should get going with editing some of these stuff. So I guess we should start removing Trivia that originates from original Workshop name/desc, as well Trivia about "item sets"? [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 09:16, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
  
Since this is called the TF wiki and has all the TFC stuff... why does the actual logo say TF2 wiki? Could someone make a logo that has TF without the 2? That might look cool and accurate. [[User:ErnieTheGreatest|ErnieTheGreatest]] ([[User talk:ErnieTheGreatest|talk]]) 18:20, 26 January 2014 (PST)
+
== Including "Action taunt" to each respective Class page. ==
  
== Add Blog Post Topics? (Posted in List of Blog Posts Discussion) ==
+
Hey, something that always bothered me is the lack of taunts on the class pages, currently, "Action taunt" are only specified on update Navigation tables, and on the Taunts page, however, I believe there should be a table for the taunts available for a specific class, as well all-class taunts, and perhaps minimizing some of the information found on [[Taunts]]. My suggestions are:
 +
* Adding the information found on Taunts to each class page (the current table is fine, and could be directly exported to a class page, for example);
 +
* Rework the "Action taunts" section on the Taunts page to have a similar style table found on "List of Class cosmetic items".
 +
Please leave your thoughts and suggestions below, thanks. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:58, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
  
Should the contents for each blog post be added in order to make finding a certain blog post easier? Because most of the posts, if not all, do not have clear titles indicating their contents. [[User:Green5|Green5]] ([[User talk:Green5|talk]]) 02:24, 20 February 2014 (PST)
+
== Team-Colored Styles section ==
  
== Damage types needed ==
+
Well, here's something else I've been thinking... There are some items that have a diverse amount of styles, but we currently do not show BLU color Styles. This is a problem for items like [[Duck Journal]], which we just see the default BLU skin, and not all the rest of the duck skins. My suggestion is the following:
  
I'm really surprised that this has never been added. There are a lot of weapons with non-obvious damage types, and this should be documented on the wiki. This is relevant for MvM, weapons that give type-specific buffs and debuffs, and most of all the Vaccinator. There is currently a brief summary on the [[damage]] page, but it's grossly inadequate. I would suggest two things: Add a damage type section to the damage box for each weapon, and/or add a table of all weapons and the damage they do, either on the damage page or on a new page. Some lists of damage types have previously been compiled elsewhere ([http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=28742279&postcount=1 for example]), and I can help test any that are in doubt.
+
* Modify the infobox template to include "Styles". So, for instance, Styles can show up at the infobox (similar on how it looks on [[Team Captain]] page), and differing by each team and style. In the case for Duck Journal, the styles available on the infobox would be: None, Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Demoman, Heavy, Engineer, Medic, Sniper, Spy, Quackston Hale. I think it would be important to note when it's a style, perhaps by using a prefix "Style: ".
  
I would start doing this myself, but I want some consensus on how to organize and format this information.
+
As we are already on the topic of the infobox, something I also suggest is:
<small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Kered13|Kered13]]''' ([[User talk:Kered13|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Kered13|contribs]]) </small>
 
:{{c|Support}} Yes, god yes. Can we please do this? There are plenty of weapons that deal damage in weird ways - this really is important information. It wouldn't be hard to add a section to the weapon infobox for this, either. — [[User:Armisael |'''Armisael''']] <small>([[User_talk:Armisael |T]] · [[Special:Contributions/Armisael |C]])</small> 16:42, 23 February 2014 (PST)
 
::{{c|Support}} - just not sure if this should be in the infobox or the "Damage or function times" section. I'm personally just as okay with both. [[File:User Zabidenu sig.png|link=User:Zabidenu]] <small>([[Special:Contribs/Zabidenu|contribs]] ▪ [[User talk:Zabidenu|talk]])</small> 16:43, 23 February 2014 (PST)
 
:Might be appropriate to put it in {{tl|Damage table}} as a call to a wrapper template pointing to a dictionary. Just fyi I wouldn't trust that link as it seems to think that melee weapons are 'nothing' when in fact they are bullet damage. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] ([[User talk:I-ghost|talk]]) 09:49, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
 
::Melee weapons don't activate the pain train's bullet vulnerability - I think they once did, but that was fixed. — [[User:Armisael |'''Armisael''']] <small>([[User_talk:Armisael |T]] · [[Special:Contributions/Armisael |C]])</small> 19:47, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
 
:::Like Armisael said, it's fixed for a long. Maybe we need to state the melee weapons as "Melee" type. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 20:19, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
 
  
 +
* Add support to non-team colored items for the Infobox Class/Styles section. There is currently a problem on showing off different models per class for items that are not team-colored. An example is [[Dead Little Buddy]], due to the lack of support on the infobox for such, the previews for class differences had to be added below, on the gallery section.
  
{{Damage table
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With these changes, I believe that the section about Styles could be removed. And only be mentioned in case the style is only affected by painting.
| type              = [[Projectile]]
 
  
| damage            = yes
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Leave your thoughts below. Thank you. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:36, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
|  base              = 30 (bullet)
 
|  crit              = 90 (30 bullet, 60 crit)
 
|  minicrit          = 41 (30 bullet, 11 crit)
 
|  afterburn        = {{tooltip|3 / tick|6 / s}}<br/>60 total (fire)
 
|  afterburn minicrit = {{tooltip|4 / tick|8 / s}}<br/>80 total (60 fire, 20 crit)
 
| function times    = yes
 
|  attack interval  = 2 s
 
|  afterburn time    = 10 s
 
}}
 
What do people think about this format, then? Implementation would probably be done through some dictionary somewhere. [[User:Armisael |'''Armisael''']] <small>([[User_talk:Armisael |T]] · [[Special:Contributions/Armisael |C]])</small> 10:53, 10 March 2014 (PDT)
 
:I think that looks good, but I'll note that the flareguns' primary damage is BOTH bullet AND fire. So for example, a targe + paintrain demo will take 30*0.5*1.1 = 17 damage (after rounding). As far as I know the flareguns are the only weapons with this dual type property, but the format needs to be able to represent that. One possibility:
 
{{Damage table
 
| type              = [[Projectile]]
 
  
| damage            = yes
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== Something I don't get about clipping cosmetics. ==
|  base              = 30 (bullet/fire)
 
|  crit              = 90 (30 bullet/fire, 60 crit)
 
|  minicrit          = 41 (30 bullet/fire, 11 crit)
 
|  afterburn        = {{tooltip|3 / tick|6 / s}}<br/>60 total (fire)
 
|  afterburn minicrit = {{tooltip|4 / tick|8 / s}}<br/>80 total (60 fire, 20 crit)
 
| function times    = yes
 
|  attack interval  = 2 s
 
|  afterburn time    = 10 s
 
}}
 
:Another thought would be to use icons to represent the damage types. We could possibly use the Vaccinator resistance icons for that?
 
  
: I'm also going to add some less obvious weapon types that I have found by experimenting:
+
So, something that I don't get about one of the Scout's cosmetics is that the Flak Jack. You can't equip it whilst having the Weight Room Warmer equipped, I personally think that it would look better if you could equip both.
* All flareguns (including manmelter): Bullet AND fire
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Here are some pictures of what it would look like, maybe they could just fix the clipping up in the back.
* Sandman/Wrapp assassin ball: Melee
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[https://gyazo.com/4ec5cc3805bbbda51420a771422171fd Scout with Weight Room Warmer and without Flak Jack]
* Caber: 35 Melee + 150 Explosion
 
* Pomson/Bison: Typeless, but still ranged
 
* Loose Cannon (impact): Explosive
 
* Charge impact: Melee
 
* Guillotine: Typeless, neither melee nor ranged (!)
 
: I'm testing these by running a server with puppet bots and the GiveWeapons plugin to give them different resistance items. If there are any other items you think should be tested, post them and I'll try to do them. [[User:Kered13|Kered13]] ([[User talk:Kered13|talk]]) 22:55, 25 March 2014 (PDT)
 
  
We can break at least some of the text out to its own row, although afterburn and crits are still obnoxious cases - I think it may be best to just link to afterburn in the table for those few weapons that inflict it.
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[https://gyazo.com/59933ca5ca87b90f84ce6b1ec8a2a5e6 Scout with both the Weight Room Warmer and the Flak Jack equipped] <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Rozeyy|Rozeyy]]''' ([[User talk:Rozeyy|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Rozeyy|contribs]]) 30 December 2018</small>
 +
:This is for discussion related to the Wiki, please post your concerns about clipping cosmetics on the Steam Community Discussions. Thanks! [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px]] <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS, cursive, sans-serif; color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  17:55, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
  
{{User:Armisael/damage
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== Question regarding Wikitext source ==
| type              = [[Projectile]]
 
| damagetype        = Dual type (bullet and fire)
 
| rangetype          = Ranged
 
  
| damage            = yes
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Hello! I was wondering if it is possible to view the source of a Wiki page without editing it / locking it? Thanks in advance! [[User:Tocksi|Tocksi]] ([[User talk:Tocksi|talk]]) 20:42, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
| base              = 30
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:I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by "locking it", unless you're speaking of protected articles, in which case can only be performed by the Wiki staff. As for viewing the source of a page without editing, I don't believe we have a read-only mode for editing. Either log out of your account or open a new window in private/incognito mode as it does not preserve your browsing activity . . [[User:Wookipan|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Wookipan'''</font>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 22:15, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
|  crit              = 90 (30 bullet/fire, 60 critical)
 
|  minicrit          = 41 (30 bullet/fire, 11 critical)
 
| afterburn        = {{tooltip|3 / tick|6 / s fire}}<br/>60 total
 
| afterburn minicrit = {{tooltip|4 / tick|8 / s}}<br/>80 total
 
| function times    = yes
 
|  attack interval  = 2 s
 
|  afterburn time    = 10 s
 
}}
 
  
Like so. Thoughts? — [[User:Armisael |'''Armisael''']] <small>([[User_talk:Armisael |T]] · [[Special:Contributions/Armisael |C]])</small> 10:37, 28 March 2014 (PDT)
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== The Wiki has issues loading images with special characters. ==
:Looks fine, though I would do 'bullet / fire' or 'bullet & fire' spacing is nice. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User_talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 10:42, 28 March 2014 (PDT)
 
:::Looks good. I second using "bullet / fire". [[User:Kered13|Kered13]] ([[User talk:Kered13|talk]]) 00:32, 29 March 2014 (PDT)
 
  
== "Originally contributed as set" - notable? ==
+
Hey. So, a while ago I replaced the [[:File:Brütal_Bouffant.png|image]] for [[Brütal Bouffant]], and noticed that neither the direct link of the image, or the image on the page is being shown. Upon close inspection, the error code "{{code|Error creating thumbnail: convert: unable to open image `/var/www/html/w/images/0/03/Brtal_Bouffant.png': No such file or directory...}}", shows that it's trying to find for the "Brtal_Bouffant.png" file, showing that it's not being able to read the "ü" part of Brütal Bouffant. I don't know if this gets fixed by itself over time, but the Brütal Bouffant page looks pretty messy with the error code. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:56, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 +
: Thanks for reporting this! I've deployed an update to the servers to fix this ([https://github.com/tfwiki/mediawiki/commit/7292aa5e7a017d154103d7dab5abcea118800744 exact commit, for interested parties; our new hosting doesn't have the en_US.utf8 locale]). Should be all sorted across the site now! -[[User:RJackson|<span class="modbg" style="margin-right:1px;text-shadow: #538237 1px 1px 0px;">RJ</span>]] 02:27, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
  
Hi,<br>
+
== Inclusion of Steam Workshop's original name for the Cosmetic Item / Weapon / Map ==
I recently updated some pages of the Strongbox Pack and found some inconsistencies belonging to a common trivia entry:
 
  
"The ''XYZ'' and ''ABC'' were originally contributed as a part of the ''IJK'' set."
+
Hi. I want to make a small poll and know what people think about this subject. I'd like to know your thoughts on this. Do you...
 +
* {{c|+|Support keeping the original Workshop names on "...under the name", on the main summary?}}
 +
* {{c|-|Or you'd prefer the exclusion of the original Workshop names on the page, removing the "...under the name" section.}}
 +
Please leave a small insight and thoughts about your vote decision. Here mine:
 +
* {{c|-}} I think we should remove the name from the pages. We had previously decided to remove information regarding trivia to old workshop names (as well information about unreleased styles or other content). There's some Workshop names which are just codenames (Crone's Dome being "'''Loss of witches (Bastinda_2012)'''"), and some of them having phrases on the name (such as Insulated Inventor's "'''Insulated innovator: V wow this keeps happening'''"). Most of the time, the original names serve no real purpose, as trivia regarding the name are no longer being supported, and these are left just occupying unnecessary space on the page.
 +
Hopefully, with this discussion, we can decide in either keeping them or not, and resolve the confusion we are having at the moment. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:26, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
  
On some pages, this was removed, on others, it still exists. I'm now asking for an opinion about what we should do with those.<br>
+
:* {{c|-}} I never saw aby purpose in mentioning their original workshop names, as ultimately Valve decides to keep the name or not of items (save for maps), and the name of the item on workshop is like really not that important - besides that, the viewer can check the original name himself, by checking the workshop page, so it's quite redundant to note that in the article. [[User:Goodjob|Goodjob]] ([[User talk:Goodjob|talk]]) 16:33, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
'''<font color="#0f0f64">~{ <span style="text-shadow:#0f0f64 0px 0px 1px;">[[User:TidB|TidB]]''' | [[User_talk:TidB|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/TidB|c]] </span>'''}~</font>''' 08:24, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
 
:As the number of items in this game grows, telling what was originally intended to be a set becomes very tricky. However, there's also no need to reference non-official content; so only if all members of the set are in the game do I feel that should this be listed. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User_talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 09:03, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
 
  
== Creating a page for [http://tipofthehats.org/ TipOfTheHats.org] ==
+
:* {{c|=|Equivocating 2}} Specific to mentioning the development name in the Lead. I wondered if the practice was grandfathered.  I did some checking, the form was established two months after the Workshop opened with the release of the first of the Workshop items.
 +
::: From the December 22, 2011 edit of BFD: 'The Big Elfin Deal was contributed to the game via the Steam Workshop, with the name "The Elf".'
 +
:: So, actually, its not like it is a new thing, in spite of my impressions or questionable recollections, or suggestions, otherwise. It really has "always been done that way."  But, Gabrielwoj makes some great points, some of the "names" are really unimpressive at best.  I don't think the old names are important, but maybe someone thought they were. But, we've chatted about this on and off for a few months, at least since it got cold, and no support for keeping them. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 04:03, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::{{c|=|Equivocating 3}} A candidate for keeping, which was deleted, was [[Monster Mash]], it is a notorious name IRL, but Valve had copyright reason, so thought, but maybe there real issue was style. IMO, much of the time, I don't care about the pre-release name. But I also don't care about detailed descriptions in the cosmetic leads, or detailed recapitulations of comics int their supposed Synopses.  23:52, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
  
[http://tipofthehats.org/ Tip of the Hats] is an annual charity livestream event benefiting One Step Camp, hosted by the competitive Team Fortress 2 community.
+
:* {{c|+|Strong support for keeping the original workshop names in the main summary}} This change is so tiny it barely affects anything, and I like seeing the original names; sometimes having their own little references or just giving an example what the name could have been, which is enjoyable to me as a reader. If we truly wanted to remove this small addition, all those sentences would be 'This item was contributed to the Steam Workshop' which seems lifeless and is just saying what's already in the infobox, which actually makes readability worse. The arguments above, the names sometimes being codenames or having phrases in them are pure cherrypicking and don't portray accurately what the original names usually are - we could always remove such names on a case-by-case basis. And of course, the argument 'just occupying unnecessary space on the page' is pointless as we are literally talking about just a few words here. '''{ [[User:TidB|TidB]]''' | [[User_talk:TidB|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/TidB|c]]''' }''' 10:39, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
First held in April 2013, the inaugural event lasted 36 hours and raised over $35,000. Players from around the world participated in the livestream and helped to make it one of the biggest events in Team Fortress 2 history, with more than 65,000 people tuning in.
+
:::There's pros and cons on keep the original workshop names. The pros being: Sometimes it can be interesting, older names can be better than the new names, and it's also useful for those who make images (as most of the time, the folder name for a cosmetic is based on the original workshop name). Although, there's a few cons, such as: workshop names being changed after being accepted in-game (so it would require removal of the name in a future edit), workshop names with codenames (like Crone's Dome), or workshop names with actual phrases in it. Other issues that comes with Workshop original names is that it makes new users include trivia regarding the old name, which we decided to drop these types of trivia (I'd say the same for the publicity blurb, but that was discussed before, so). I kinda stopped removing the workshop names (I did for like 15 items, then someone asked to me why, and then I halted my edits), but I know some editors are removing when making improvements to the page. It's something that is still debatable, nonetheless. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:18, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
  
I believe it deserves its own page on the wiki, And should even be a featured article to raise awareness of it. It takes place March 29th
+
== The cache system is way too slow. ==
though the 30th. Many of the bigger names in the TF2 community are around, and anyone can donate.
 
  
Tip of the hats allows donations through Hats/items and monatary donations start shortly before the event begins.
+
Hi. The cache system on the Wiki, ever since it was migrated to MediaWiki 2.0 (I think, I just know that it the main framework was updated), has ever since been very slow. I tend to upload a lot of images, and a lot of times, I have to wait for days for an image to catch up, I almost can't ever check if my work looks good on the page, requiring me to check only when the image is finally fully cached. [[Crafty Hair|Here's an example]], an image I recently updated.
 +
<br><br>The problem is that the old image size from the previous revision gets used for the new image, and so it stretches very poorly on the page. Other times, the image seems to be properly sized, but still appears blurry in the page, as shown here on [[Weight Room Warmer]], which in case of that image, it was uploaded in 14:07, 22 January 2019, almost 1 month later and the image is still not fully cached.
 +
<br><br>And other times, the images doesn't properly update at all, as seen on [[Assassin's Attire]], some paint variant tables (that were uploaded around 16:37, 7 July 2018) show up the previous version instead. I'm not sure if this is a case of the cache or something else, but even when I attempted re-uploading the file, it didn't worked.
 +
<br><br>I remember I didn't had these issues on the previous MediaWiki. Would there be a way to improve the time for the cache system, or perhaps optimize it somehow? I've worked and been into other Wikis, and this is the only one which I see this problem happening. The Weight Room Warmer pic was just an example, but there's other images around the Wiki having the same or similar problems (some from old uploads, other from recent modifications). Thanks. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:25, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
  
I just wanted to create this discussion to see if everyone does indeed agree. [[User:Vince Montego|Vince Montego]] ([[User talk:Vince Montego|talk]]) 22:20, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
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== Documentation about Abuse Report and Bug Report on the Wiki? ==
:{{C|Agree}} We have pages for ESEA, CEVO, and so on, why not this community site? [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User_talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 22:22, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
 
:{{C|Neutral}} I'll be neutral on this, I don't think they're popular enough (Unless I haven't researched long enough) to have a page at this time. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 22:23, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
 
::By comparison, [[CEVO]] has 150 tf2 teams, so around 600 players, with a $8000 prize pool. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User_talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 22:24, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
 
:{{C|Agree}} I think they're popular enough to have a TF2 page. They raised roughly 36k in 36 hours, which means they're quite popular. They also have their goals set higher this year. It's a nice way to spread the word about how video games(TF2 specifically) can help out in real life situations. --[[User:HuskyHippo|HuskyHippo]] ([[User talk:HuskyHippo|talk]]) 13:44, 16 March 2014 (PDT)
 
:Feels like it should sit in [[:Category:Community events]]. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] ([[User talk:I-ghost|talk]]) 11:38, 23 March 2014 (PDT)
 
:: Well, Since the TF2 team officially recognized Tip of the hats on their blog, I think its safe to say a page is fine. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 05:32, 31 March 2014 (PDT)
 
  
== New Update? New Content? New ARG! ==
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Hi. I think the Wiki should have a page related to the Abuse Report system ('F7' key). I started to wonder if something was already covered, but apparently, the only mention of it seems to be on [[List of default keys]]. I also think we should document Bug Reporting as well. The addition to Bug Reporting could facilitate users who wants to report a game-breaking bug (for the [[Finder's Fee]] hat), although, I really don't know if in-game bug report system works for that. As for the Abuse Report system, we got pages for Coaching, the Workshop button on the main menu, Options, especially sprays, as well many other stuff. I think a page about it should be documented. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 22:00, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
  
Some new content was added to the game after the Two Cities update and the Smissmas 2013:
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: If I understand you correctly, since the wiki has articles for [[Coaching]], the [[Steam Workshop|Workshop button on the main menu]], and [[Options]], <u>then, for completeness there should be [[Report Player]] ([[Abuse Report]]) and [[Report Bug]]/[[Bug Report]] articles.</u>
 +
: Technically, while there is a Workshop button on the Main Menu, the [[Steam Workshop]] covers the whole Valve interface rather than the MM button. And I don't see any broad "Options" article.
 +
:That said, [[Report Player]] ([[Abuse Report]]) and [[Report Bug]]/[[Bug Report]] do seem to be long-missing articles, as long as they focus on the ''Team Fortress 2'' interface, especially as a how to.
 +
:[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 00:19, 14 March 2019 (UTC) 23:47, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
 +
::I attempted writing a page for it, it's currently on my [[User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox|sandbox]]. I named specifically "Abuse Reporter", that's how the game calls it by the in-game tip that is shown on the loading screen. I haven't taken any screenshots related about it, but please let me know what you think. You may edit the page if you see any mistakes or that you think section should be rewritten. The page is currently a "stub", even though I haven't actually added the template. I was thinking about adding the information that the rules applied to the report has to be followed from the [http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ Steam Subscriber Agreement], but I couldn't find any info regarding if these reports are really complied by those same rules. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:19, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
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::: As far as content, I have no idea of anything to do with abuse reporting, so keep going. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 23:58, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
  
What was added:
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== The new talk page layout ==
 +
I've noticed that some talk pages, mostly new ones, have this new, weird layout style which is way more different than the normal talk page. Example: [[Talk:Operation Memes vs Machines]]. Not only is this talk page laggy and annoying to deal with, but it also doesn't show replies half the time. I wanted to reply to a reply, so first I had to do some weird refresh magic to get the reply to pop up, but then when I finished my reply, the layout asked me to do "the captcha below," but no matter how many times I did it, there was no captcha. Does anyone know how to disable this, or are we just stuck with this?
 +
[[File:Pyro emblem RED.png|16x16px]] '''''[[User:BeingAwesom|<span style="font-family:comic sans ms;color:#f00">BeingAwesom</span>]]''''' [[File:Pyro emblem RED.png|16x16px]] <span style="font-family:comic sans ms;color:#000000">''([[User talk:BeingAwesom|<span style="font-family:comic sans ms;color:#f00">talk</span>]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/BeingAwesom|<span style="font-family:comic sans ms;color:#f00">contribs</span>]])''</span> 03:10, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
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: It should be removed soon. See [[TFW:Technical requests#StructuredDiscussions]]. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 04:49, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
  
This was found in the game after the updates
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: FWIW, BeingAwesom, I did respond the Shadows topic that prompted this topic, my original response didn't show then showed until I fix a typo and hasn't been seen since. You can see my response if you search through the history. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 17:40, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
  
The bulletin board (inside the folder named "props_teaser"
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== Promotional or Distributed? ==
The (RED) and [BLU] Mann co. posters
 
The painted shovels in Mannhattan
 
  
 +
With the recent addition of the new templates for availability (great idea btw), I think it is about time that we 'clear up' the usage of "promotional" and "distributed". These terms, at the moment, seem to be used almost interchangeably on a lot of pages.
  
What has been discovered:
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For example:  
 
If you take all the numbers in the bulletin board and put them in update order, then decode them alphanumerically, you get "Be sure to drink your jarute" (yes, jarute not jarate). Here's the numbers: 2 5 19 21 18 5 20 15 4 18 9 14 11 25 15 21 18 10 1 18 21 20 5. Alphanumerically is "1=a, 2=b" and so on.
 
  
The Scout in the bulletin board is featured in a Force-a-Nature poster but instead of the FaN he is holding a red painted (yes, painted) Holy Mackerel, this matches with the shovels found in Mannhattan
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These are apparently promotional: [[Jaunty Globetrotter]], [[Jaunty Explorer]], [[Conspiracy Cap]]
  
There is a little picture partially hidden under the Medic’s Gold Rush update picture with blurred words that says Poppy Joe?
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While these are apparently distributed: [[TF2Maps Ray of Sunshine]], [[TF2Maps Charitable Heart]], [[Spectral Snowflake]], [[Gift of Giving 2016]], [[Public Accessor]], [[Thought that Counts]]
  
The envelope features blurred words that possibly says later, further, future
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Personally, I feel that 'promotional' refers to something that got used for promoting something (duh) and acquire money from players. This includes mostly donation medals.
 +
'Distributed' (for me) refers to something that was distributed to the player for doing something specific (event, etc). For example, [[Titanium Tank Participant Medal 2017]] is a clear distributed item as it got distributed to everyone who completed the tour.
  
Near to the Engineer’s update picture we can see some blueprints of an unknown machine, possibly a rocket engine
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I know one could argue that "the player buying the medal is something specific" and "donation medals also gets distributed" or, on the other hand, "event medals always promote the event they are from", but why have two terms for the same thing? We should really make a line of some kind so it means something.
  
Nothing yet from the Mann co. posters.
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Exception could exist (as always), but if anyone has any other strong opinions on what should be what - speak up :o
  
 +
And also: why are the words for 'distributed' so much different between pages for a lot of languages? That should really be streamlined, unless they are some weird languages that change on a case-to-case basis (even for single words, somehow).
  
What are the conclusions:
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== Should we include the Item Kind twice on Graded Items? ==
 
1-Possibly in a near update we can paint weapons!
 
2-Due to the blueprint we are going to have new machine related gameplay (MvM not confirmed).
 
3-Poppy Joe can be mentioned again.
 
  
What do you guys think a new update and ARG?  
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Hi. I was noticing something in game... Graded items contains both the Item Kind + Grade on their descriptions, but these items also have an additional Item Kind right below it. Take for example this [[https://i.imgur.com/0ztKb2B.png picture]], we can see "Commando Grade Guitar" and "Guitar" right below it. Should we include this on each Graded Cosmetic Page? Additionally, this isn't the case while viewing an item on Steam Community, as seen [[https://i.imgur.com/4cJRUx0.png here]], only mentioning "Commando Grade Guitar" and nothing else. This looks like a bug, rather than a feature, but anyway, it's how it's in the game. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:06, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
<small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:NUKPyromaniac|NUKPyromaniac]]''' ([[User talk:NUKPyromaniac|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/NUKPyromaniac|contribs]]) 00:05, 25 March 2014</small>
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: Does [https://i.imgur.com/bLbQ6AU.png this] count as mentioning it twice on the SC? [[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 14:09, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
:I think that this sort of discussion is better suited for the [http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80 forums]. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User_talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 17:22, 24 March 2014 (PDT)
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::Maybe. Also, good point. These Graded items doesn't have level in-game, but apparently show up in SC. The "Guitar" on TF2 is on the same string color as the Level in SC, now I know why it's mentioned twice, because the Level [#] doesn't show up in-game. Now we have two things to discuss, one the addition to the Item Kind, and this situation with Item Level and viewing on SC. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:31, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
  
== Should there be a page for Easter eggs? ==
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== Addition to "Community Market" under the Infobox Picture. ==
  
I've been looking around the wiki lately and I noticed there isn't an Easter eggs page. I wanted to know if we should create a page for Easter eggs. It would have Easter eggs from all maps instead of having them on each of them. [[User:BetaBomb|BetaBomb]] ([[User talk:BetaBomb|talk]]) 12:14, 30 March 2014 (PDT)
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Hi. I've made a mock-up of what could be possibly added to several cosmetic/tool pages: [https://i.imgur.com/z2edATE.png i.imgur.com/z2edATE.png]. Clicking on that blue button will redirect the user to "[https://steamcommunity.com/market/search?appid=440&q=Diplomat Steam Community Market :: Showing results for: Team Fortress 2, "Diplomat"]".<br>
: Nope. Easier to just incorporate them on pages that have em. Also, kinda pointless to note them really.... [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 05:32, 31 March 2014 (PDT)
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Additional thoughts: I've made the button blue to be different to the one's seen like [[Merc's Pride Scarf|here]], which allows to buy directly from the Mann Co. Store (via browser). I've made a "simple fix", but it may be possible to technically include the price too, backpack.tf shows the price in the Community Market, so I believe it's somewhere on the TF2 API? Although, with this method, we would need to include buttons for all the different marketable qualities (the Diplomat, for example, has listings for both Unique and Strange versions of the item).
 +
<br>The button can also be worded like: "View available listings for the Diplomat on the Steam Community Market".
 +
<br>I find it lacking that we don't have a direct link to Market Listings for marketable items. Thoughts?[[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:56, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
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:Additionally, we should include "'''Marketable: Yes/No'''" on the Basic Information as well, no? [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:59, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
  
== Spoilers ==
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:: {{c|agree}} Great idea, that's my favorite feature on Dota Wiki. Alternatively, we could use the item's defindex (from GetSchemaItems) to return the listings instead (like this: [https://steamcommunity.com/market/search/?q=appid:440+prop_def_index:416 appid:440 prop_def_index:416]). Also, even though it's somewhat possible to return the item prices, I don't think it's a good idea, Market prices tend to fluctuate from time to time. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 23:49, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
  
I think the Wiki could use spoilers, for example, in the [[Administrator]] page, considering the latest revelations in the comics. It could have some kind of support [[p:Template:Spoiler|similar to the Portal Wiki]], maybe? Even though yes, these informations will probably get old some day, they will still be spoilers for new players that haven't read the comics yet.
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:::Nice, I was trying to figure out if there was an "index" or code that could be used. We can possibly obtain this info from a list of indexes or something, and the infobox directly grabs that information on the template (not requiring to, for instance, having to search by the item's name, like "&q=Diplomat"). [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 00:09, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
  
I don't know, just throwing in some ideas. Might actually be difficult to implement depending on how much access admins have to the site's structure (thougb I don't think that's the case). – [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 17:52, 2 April 2014 (PDT)
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:::: {{tlx|defindex}} already exists, so it was simple to create a {{tlx|Buy now}} button that redirects to the Market (see [[User:Tark/BuyNow]]). Changing the [[:File:Btn buynow.png|background image]] requires additional permissions, tho. orz — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 18:00, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
:How much of a concern is the storyline in TF2 anyways? If you don't read the comics you wouldn't care about the administrator at all. It might be worth being a warning up at the top of the page, but I don't think anything else would really be necessary. — [[User:Armisael |'''Armisael''']] <small>([[User_talk:Armisael |T]] · [[Special:Contributions/Armisael |C]])</small> 18:20, 2 April 2014 (PDT)
 
::Eh. Fair enough. – [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 17:34, 3 April 2014 (PDT)
 
:::I’ve wondered about this myself, not just for [[Storyline]] but for references and “Easter eggs” as well.  In the latter cases, I wonder if someone new to the game would rather try to figure out the references and find the subtle content on their own and so would appreciate a Spoiler warning. On the other hand, all of the background content and (especially) the Trivia sections clue the new player into the existence of comics, movies, in-game story, and (especially) hidden content.  This second case was certainly my situation, Pyromania was the first update to happen after I started, ''and'' I completely missed it, I was on the road for a month and had no idea it had happened, but for the references to it in the wiki articles.  So, count me '''Neutral''' to ''mild'' '''Support''', I can understand the feature being of limited value and a bother to implement and maintain, especially to the senior members; but, I can also imagine (meaning guess, really) a few new players appreciating spoiler notices.  Moreover, the storyline is developing and moving into the realm of revelations.  True, up to this year, there hasn’t been much if anything to spoil; ''but'' I think if I was just starting the game now, I don’t think I would want to know before I read it that the shadow Gray Mann was speaking to was <'''Spoiler'''>.  [[User:Mikado282|Mikado282]] ([[User talk:Mikado282|talk]]) 20:52, 22 April 2014 (PDT)
 
::::I would much rather follow [[w:WP:Spoiler|wikipedia's approach]], and simply offer a disclaimer-we are a source of knowledge, people come to it with the expectation to read about the content. Looking at a wiki like tvtropes, it is noticeably problematic to read the content with spoilers on. (See also: [[w:WP:No disclaimers in articles|WP:No disclaimers in articles]]) [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User_talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 21:21, 22 April 2014 (PDT)
 
:::::That kind of goes to why I am not committed to support -- given its nature, one should ''expect'' spoilers. [[User:Mikado282|Mikado282]] ([[User talk:Mikado282|talk]]) 21:39, 22 April 2014 (PDT)
 
::::::I think it would be good enough just to give a reference in the first or second sentence of the individual articles for major NPCs that they are important characters in the comics; which would factual, notable, informative, and not a disclaimer/spoiler alert. I think Merasmus and Saxton Hale are good as is; so, maybe you could work something into [[Administrator]]’s introduction. [[User:Mikado282|Mikado282]] ([[User talk:Mikado282|talk]]) 19:00, 23 April 2014 (PDT)
 
::Somewhat tangentially, I quibble with the comment “''If you don't read the comics you wouldn't care about the administrator at all.''”  I don’t think I got into the comics and videos until my first Halloween event ([[Spectral Halloween Special|Fourth Annual Halloween Special]]). I went the wiki to learn how to fight the bosses, and in that manner learned about the past content.  Similarly, that is how I learned that the Administrator/Announcer had any sort of significance.  Moreover, it was through the wiki that I learned that the game had any storyline at all.  In a nutshell, I found the game, googled for strategy, found the wiki, found the storyline, found the comics.  YMV; but, maybe it happens that way for others, too.  Truly, the wiki is the ''bookshelf'' where I keep my "worn" copies of the comics. [[User:Mikado282|Mikado282]] ([[User talk:Mikado282|talk]]) 21:39, 22 April 2014 (PDT)
 
  
== Strangifiable Items. ==
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:::::Looks nice. I suppose you dropped the "the" on "View listings on Steam Community Market" because it wouldn't fit? Also, we could just create another image if that's the case. I think it's really important to distinguish both Steam Community Market links from direct TF2 Purchases, as I believe there's going to be pages with both. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 22:08, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
  
I think in the table (To the right of the screen under the items picture)  
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:::::: Should be "View listings on the Steam Community Market" now, thanks! Could you make a slightly different version of [[:File:Btn buynow.png|this image]]? — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 22:44, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Listed where if it is Paintable, craftable, tradable, ect.
 
There should be a section in the mix where it says...
 
  
Strangifiable = Yes
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:::::::How different? I can make the 2 Steam Logos blue. I say blue as it's the predominant color on Steam Community. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:18, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Or
 
Strangifiable = No
 
[[User:The Lion|The Lion]] ([[User talk:The Lion|talk]]) 00:47, 6 April 2014 (PDT)
 
  
:Why it needs to? I don't see any point of it. When we need to check that the weapons availability, it's already in availability section. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 02:09, 6 April 2014 (PDT)
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:::::::: [[:File:Btn scm.png|How's this?]] [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:21, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
  
And what about for cosmetics? [[User:The Lion|The Lion]] ([[User talk:The Lion|talk]]) 02:48, 6 April 2014 (PDT)
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::::::::: [https://wiki.tf/d/2422438 {{c|done}}]. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 16:32, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
: The infobox already supports it. You just put strangifier into the availability section. --[[User:Omolong|Omolong]] ([[User talk:Omolong|talk]]) 08:01, 6 April 2014 (PDT)
 
  
== Strange parts additional information ==
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:::::::::: Nicely done. Now, we just need two things: Add the string "Marketable: Yes/No", No shows up when there's no "| marketable", and Yes shows up when there's "| marketable" on the item's infobox table. The second thing is, we should add similar type of buttons for each [[Paint Can]], currently there's no option to purchase them (or to view listings on the Community Market). [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:11, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  
Do you think strange part charts should note if a strange part counts towards its total in MVM missions?
+
::::::::::: Also, with the inclusion of the string above, we need to find a way to specify which qualities are Marketable and which ones aren't. For instance, we can have the Marketable Listings on the Scattergun page, but that only applies to Strange and Killstreak variations... I don't know exactly how can we specify each... [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:25, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
  
some are obvious
+
== About plurals. ==
  
some are not so obvious and require research
+
So, about plurals... how do we specify when an item's name or kind should be pluralized? [[Robin Walkers]] are both shoes, and the name is also pluralized, so I can see why it was pluralized here. I've recently made an edit to [[Blizzard Britches]], to make it plural, as it's a pair of pants, and the name is in plural. However, I'm still unsure about the rest of the summary. In Robin Walkers, it's mentioned "They are...", while in Blizzard Britches, I still kept the traditional "It".<br>
 +
So, what can I do here? Should all pluralized names receive the "are/were/they" treatment? I can see pages like [[Shin Shredders]] still mentioning the item in singular. Also, should all items that are "a pair of boots", "a pair of pants", "glasses", be pluralized, despite if their names aren't, due to their kind? [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:06, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
  
for example, will "Strange Part: Medics Killed That Have Full ÜberCharge" work on robot medics?
+
== Cosmetic Item floating "Bugs"... I think we should get rid of those. ==
  
'''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 05:11, 1 May 2014 (PDT)
+
Hey. So... in some pages, there are bugs like... "When this item is equipped upon the Spy, it visibly floats in front of his lapel.". I wouldn't consider these as bugs, it's just how the model is positioned on the class. These type of "bugs" can be seen in pages like [[Operation Gear Grinder Badge]] (as well all the other Operation Badges) and a few others (I remember seeing on [[Power Up Canteen]], but it looks like it was removed already). I think we shouldn't list these are bugs, rarely this has an unintended effect (mostly when the {{code|hat}} bone goes to {{code|prp_hat}} on Sniper, which causes the hat to re-position a bit, but even so, it's very few Sniper hats that actually has this issue. As an example, the [[Wiki Cap]] on Sniper clips on the top of his head, most likely that the bone was transitioned from hat to prp_hat, so he could grab while doing his Melee Taunt, and the only hat I can think of now with an issue like this, is the [[Toadstool Topper]] on Sniper).
:My understanding is that none of them do except for 'robots killed'. Since robots are bots, stranges won't rank up on them. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User_talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 05:20, 1 May 2014 (PDT)
+
<br>So, yeah, I vote {{c|x|No}}. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:13, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
::That's my understanding too but ive seen some people on the steam discussiond complain because their strange parts don't work because they didn't know. Just some sort of indication to say "hey, hate to disappoint you but other then this and this NO other stranmge parts work on mvm" if you catch my drift. '''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 05:22, 1 May 2014 (PDT)
 
:::Add a note (see [[strange#Notes]]) that they don't rank on bot kills. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User_talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 05:32, 1 May 2014 (PDT)
 
  
== Weapon demonstration reservations ==
+
:Definitely not a bug, it was specifically requested for our [[Tournament_Medal_-_Cap_that_Cup|Cap that Cup medal]] to be floating in front of the person so it doesn't clip with stuff like the [[Veteran's Attire]] on Soldier. It might be unintentional that it's so far, but it's definitely not a bug. I vote removal too <br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 08:35, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
  
The weapon demonstration reservations template doesn't work on some custom signatures.
+
::I will keep an eye on and remove any "bugs" related to this. I've seen other medals which were also made to "float" so it reduces clipping with shirt items. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:37, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
  
This
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== Mann Co. Store extra descriptions ==
<pre>{{Reservation|~~~~}}</pre>
 
  
Produced this
+
Hey. So, I was looking around the Mann Co. Store, and some items have an extra description on them. For example, Something Special for Someone Special has [https://i.imgur.com/Llm4uV0.png this], while any decalable item has [https://i.imgur.com/xxZTwrl.png this]. Other examples come from [https://i.imgur.com/ZD62o6d.png paint cans], [https://i.imgur.com/oyLbUkm.png Backpack Expander], [https://i.imgur.com/cQpz027.png Name Tag], [https://i.imgur.com/GOrrCG6.png Desc Tag], [https://i.imgur.com/XVkbdFs.png Decal Tool] and so on. Should we include these more-detailed descriptions somewhere? If so, where? [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 00:08, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
{{Reservation|'''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 21:33, 2 May 2014 (PDT)}}
 
  
However this
+
== Issues with Scream Fortress 2018 Item Icons. ==
<pre>{{Reservation/sandbox}} ~~~~</pre>
 
  
Works
+
Hello, could someone please investigate why some icons for [[Scream Fortress 2018]] are not updating accordingly? As some of you may know, I've been making new Item Icons, and for the majority of the SF2018 items, none of the icons are being updated with the latest revisions. The following icons has been updated, but their icons never refresh to the current revision:
 +
<gallery>
 +
File:Item icon Hephaistos' Handcraft.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Hephaistos' Handcraft
 +
File:Item icon Athenian Attire.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Athenian Attire
 +
File:Item icon Olympic Leapers.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Olympic Leapers
 +
File:Item icon Dressperado.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Dressperado
 +
File:Item icon Gaelic Glutton.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Gaelic Glutton
 +
File:Item icon Mann-O-War.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Mann-O-War
 +
File:Item icon Defragmenting Hard Hat 17%.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Defragmenting Hard Hat 17%
 +
File:Item icon Deadbeats.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Deadbeats
 +
</gallery>
 +
These icons are the ones I noticed since I've updated them recently, but other SF2018 items may have been having the same issue (the only one so far with no issues was the [[Vampire Vanquisher]]).
 +
<br>
 +
As a side note, the Gaelic Glutton icon on the [[Demoman]] Cosmetic Items table is also stretched, this is due to a previous revision for the icon which was smaller. Ever after 2 changes (the first one to fix the size, and the second one which is a complete new icon), the icon is still having issues showing the current revision.
 +
<br>
 +
Thanks. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:05, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 +
:Seems to me that it's cache issues again. Similarly to this, some of the painted variants on [[Assassin's Attire]] aren't updating. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS, cursive, sans-serif; color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  18:18, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
 +
::Updated once again. Highway Star seems to not even show the thumbnail, regardless of the revision. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:14, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::Highway Star fixed itself, but Deadbeats is another item with the same problem. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:41, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
 +
::::Well, Highway Star is again not working, as well two new icons from the Summer Pack 2019:
 +
<gallery>
 +
File:Item icon Highway Star.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Hephaistos' Handcraft
 +
File:Item icon Dancing Doe.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Athenian Attire
 +
File:Item icon Speedy Scoundrel.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Olympic Leapers
 +
</gallery>
 +
::::All the rest of Summer 2019 items are working just fine, it's just those 2 (+ Highway Star) that doesn't seem to be refreshing. While the Highway Star appears fine in here, it doesn't refresh on this [[Scream Fortress 2018|page]], and possibly others.  [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:47, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::::More icons:
 +
<gallery>
 +
File:Item icon Tournament Medal - Pugiklander.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Tournament Medal - Pugiklander
 +
File:Item icon Tournament Medal - EuroLander.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Tournament Medal - EuroLander
 +
File:Item icon Tournament Medal - TFArena 6v6 Arena Mode Cup.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Tournament Medal - TFArena 6v6 Arena Mode Cup
 +
</gallery>
 +
:::::[[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:00, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
  
{{Reservation/sandbox}} '''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 21:33, 2 May 2014 (PDT)
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== Changing the titles and the name of certain items and item sets. ==
  
Is there an issue with the reservation template? '''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 21:34, 2 May 2014 (PDT)
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Hey there everyone! I'm new to the translation section of the Wiki.
:<pre>{{Reservation|~~~~}}</pre>
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I have a problem with the translation with the titles of some pages and items.
:{{Reservation|[[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 05:07, 13 May 2014 (PDT)}}
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The translation guide only says to add a DISPLAYTITLE on the top of the page, but the item doesn't change name.
:Should work now. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 05:07, 13 May 2014 (PDT)
+
I noticed that if i add a
  
::{{Reservation|'''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 05:16, 13 May 2014 (PDT)}} NOP =( '''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 05:16, 13 May 2014 (PDT)
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| name        = NameExample
:::Span tags (that are not inside brackets) seem to cause this, for some odd reason. I can't think of an obvious way around this, though. Unrelatedly, did you know you can use <nowiki><u></u></nowiki> for underlines? [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 05:54, 13 May 2014 (PDT)
 
== New policy for deletion of community sites ==
 
</nowiki>
 
A discussion took place on the IRC channel over the course of yesterday, but it is just a summary of what has been being discussed infrequently over the past few months. The logs are here: [http://irc.biringa.com/channel/tfwiki-staff/2014-05-12.html Part 1] [http://irc.biringa.com/channel/tfwiki-staff/2014-05-13.html Part 2].<br>
 
The general gist of the discussion is: Community pages are mostly fishing for attention, rather than being impartial descriptions of the webpages. There were 2 major options suggested in the above discussion:
 
# Scrap all community sites in favor of general pages on trading, inventory, etc. ("The wiki should cover the process involved, not the specific instances.")
 
# Scrap all community sites that have not been directly mentioned by valve. ("The wiki cannot simply ignore certain parts of the community, but high level of notability is important.")
 
It is clearly a problem to have every site define notability for themselves, so there needs to be some standard by which sites are given pages. However, this might not need to be as strict as official valve mention, since valve does for the most part condone the market (10% transaction fee and all).<br>
 
It is worthwhile to note that valve assumedly does not want all trading done via marketplace as not all items can be traded in the marketplace.<br>
 
My personal opinion is that community sites have no place on the wiki, since notability is always tricky to define. It is easier to talk generally about the principles of trading with an addendum that there are third party trading sites. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color:blue">Talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color:grey">Contribs</span>]]) 04:58, 13 May 2014 (PDT)
 
<br>'''Edit:''' [[TFW:Policies#Community websites|Current policy link]]
 
:I think that we should note notable sites (even if its just as a bullet-point list on the relevant article). The wiki's been getting some negative PR recently, and we should probably try to counter it. Why not post threads on community discussion sites (spuf/reddit/etc) and ask what the community thinks we should do? At worst, it becomes obvious to community that coming up with reasonable notability guidelines is hard. — [[User:Armisael |'''Armisael''']] <small>([[User_talk:Armisael |T]] · [[Special:Contributions/Armisael |C]])</small> 15:41, 13 May 2014 (PDT)
 
::Shouldn't KritzKast still be online (keep the page)? This website has in-game items, promotions, and many more. Including that blog posts also comment about the website (not like tf2 trading websites). The only external tf2 website I've seen on the blogpost that isn't the KritzKast was the TF2backpack viewer (the very first one). [[User:Gabrielwoj|Gabrielwoj]] ([[User talk:Gabrielwoj|talk]]) 07:22, 14 May 2014 (PDT)
 
  
== Kill icon tooltip ==
+
in the item info section, I can change the item's name. But sometimes it says Template:Dictionary/items/nameexample
 +
Same thing goes for item sets.
 +
Is there someone who can explain me how it works please?
  
Hello, I have recently made a kill notice sandbox that has a tooltip inbuilt for it. the biggest use for it would be an example [[User:Lexar/itembox_tooltip|here]].
+
I would be really happy! :D
This
+
'''[[User:D-ray Ent.|D-ray Ent.]]''' ([[User talk:D-ray Ent.|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/D-ray Ent.|contribs]]) 29th of June 2019 20:18 CEST
<pre>{{Kill notice/sandbox|weapon=wrench}}</pre>
 
will still produce normally
 
{{Kill notice/sandbox|weapon=wrench}}
 
  
This
+
:Hello,
<pre>{{Kill notice/sandbox|weapon=wrench|kill-tool=Only Engineer}}</pre>
+
:The wiki works with the [[Template:Dictionary|Dictionary]], here you can find all translations for items and other things. If you want to edit it, click on the "items" section, scroll down to the appropriate subsection and then edit it.
will produce a tooltip once hovered
+
:At the bottom of the page I linked is the documentation on how to use the dictionary. If you have any more questions regarding the dictionary and editing is, feel free to post it on the talk page.
{{Kill notice/sandbox|weapon=wrench|kill-tool=Only Engineer}}
+
:Also please sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>
 +
:<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 18:35, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
  
 +
== Regarding recent consistency edits ==
  
Tell me what you all think. One of the many uses would be in the shotgun item infobox seeing as its a multiclass item with only a single class being able to use the hadouken with it. '''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 01:01, 25 May 2014 (PDT)
+
In recent times, there've been some edits by [[User:Denied|Denied]] and [[User:Hinaomi|Hinaomi]] to improve the consistency of pages, but I'm don't quite agree with both the methods and the way of how these edits are made. For one part, the main three consistency points seem to be
: {{c|support}} Looks good to me.  I wonder if we could do something to make it clearer that there contextual data available on hover - the change in background colours distinguishes it from normal killicons, and the cursor helps if the user bothers to hover over it, but I don't think it makes it obvious there is extra data available... perhaps we can add a little question mark ([[File:Pictogram_question.png|15px|text-top|link=]]) floated to the right? That might work. -[[User:RJackson|<span class="modbg" style="margin-right:1px;text-shadow: #538237 1px 1px 0px;">RJ</span>]] 05:48, 25 May 2014 (PDT)
+
# Changing 'This item' to the actual item name
: {{c|support}} I think this is very useful and I also support RJackon's idea with a special symbol that calls a reader's attention. '''~{ [[User:TidB|TidB]]''' | [[User_talk:TidB|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/TidB|c]]''' }~''' 05:53, 25 May 2014 (PDT)
+
# Removing the 'under the name' part in the community-created sentence
: {{c|support}} I like the idea of the tooltip but dissagree with the symbol's inclusion. People may be confused and assume the symbol appears in gameplay kill notices.--'''[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]]''' 12:24, 25 May 2014 (PDT)
+
# Removing the second Steam Workshop link in the community-created sentence
:{{c|support}} Don't see why not. I like the symbol and don't think it'd cause much confusion — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 13:26, 25 May 2014 (PDT)
 
  
== New And Community Made Taunts Update ==
+
While I agree with the last point, I still find the first two confusing and don't agree with them - the usage of 'this item' avoids the repetition of the item name which also improves the visual aspects of the article, since the sentences are usually placed vertically adjacent to each other. They also make it harder in languages such as German because it can be awkward to use the {{tl|item name}}-ified versions all the time. For the second point, just refer to the the [[#Inclusion of Steam Workshop's original name for the Cosmetic Item / Weapon / Map|discussion above]].
  
Last month, Valve posted an update on there [http://www.teamfortress.com/?tab=blog Blog page] . There is information on the new comic and What they were working on, if you scroll down to see a picture of the Engineer tapping the box(GIF) you will see text above the Gif stating, "Last thing: taunts! We're working on a way for you guys to upload your own taunts to the Workshop, which should be a lot of fun. We're also animating some new ones ourselves that we think you're going to love. We'll leave you with a tiny preview" [[File:Engineer_chair_taunt.jpg|thumb|To see the GIF in action, go to the Team Fortress 2 Blog page]]
+
What I ''still'' don't get though is how these consistency edits are appearing out of thin air, especially the first point. The only source of doing these edits is [[User_talk:Hinaomi#Changing_from_.22This_item.22_to_.5Bitem_name.5D|this talk page entry]] and it provides no reasoning for why to do this kinda thing, just mentioning 'consistency' which could always go both ways. The second point is even weirder, because there's the discussion right above, there's no consensus being reached and apparently it's still getting edited in (or rather, out)?
  
I don't know how the community will make there taunts, it is probably going to be with a special program yet to be released by Valve, or the difficult way, where you either use SFM or Blender, then get allot of other Programs to convert the desired files into an MDL file, but sometimes when making your taunt the hard way may not work.
+
Because in the end, I think we might actually create more inconsistency because I don't see all the pages getting updated, and especially not the translated versions of them. I'd love to hear your input.
  
I cannot wait to see what Valve has for us and i hope you feel the same aswell! What taunts will you make?
+
'''{ [[User:TidB|TidB]]''' | [[User_talk:TidB|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/TidB|c]]''' }''' 20:37, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 +
:I'd like to keep "This item was awarded" instead of full name. I was adding them from the begging, but at some point [[User:Hinaomi|Hinaomi]] started adding full names, and becuse he's here longer than, I assumed he knows better than I. That's it. If it's neccesarry I can revert them back to "This item". About the "was added under 'name'" I think it's not necesarry to add them, because Valve was changing almost every Workshop item added, and now they're adding pretty much unchanged names straight from the Workshop, so adding them is kinda pointless. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 07:48, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 +
::I don't think reverting will be necessary, these kinda edits can be done when other parts of the article have to be edited as well, but I agree. For the 'under the name' thingy, I'd say that when the name is the same, we could either use 'under the same name' (as it's been used before), or just omit it. As I said in the discussion above, of course it doesn't make sense to ''always'' include the original workshop name, but generally it could be a good idea. '''{ [[User:TidB|TidB]]''' | [[User_talk:TidB|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/TidB|c]]''' }''' 07:55, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
  
(another thing i got to say, is I cannot tell if this was an April fools joke because this update was created on April the 2nd, either because they were too late to make it, or i was just in a different time zone, i don't know.)
+
::: @TidB : I would have thought Denied's question to Hinaomi was rhetorical rather than supportive of the change away from "This item". I have always felt the abstraction serve the purpose of readability.  As for mentioning Workshop names, I've participated in a couple of discussions on this, but I am not going to try to locate them during my lunch walk. In them I think I was probably supportive of not mentioning the Workshop name unless it was actually notable, exceedingly rare cases to be sure, IMO. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 17:31, 24 July 2019 (UTC) [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 19:55, 24 July 2019 (UTC)•
 +
:::: Sorry for the late reply, and I don't have much time so I gotta say this real quick. I don't mind if it changed to either way, just make them consistence with others. 02:07, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
  
<small>''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:IFlipsful|IFlipsful]]''' ([[User talk:IFlipsful|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/IFlipsful|contribs]]) </small>
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== Please help me with Categories. ==
: This type of discussion does not belong here. It would be more suited to take it to the Steam forums. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 11:59, 25 May 2014 (PDT)
+
 
 +
Hello. Soon, I'll be doing Item icons for (hopefully) all Decorated/War Painted weapons. While I was checking categories for existing Item Icons, I noticed some inconsistency. In some icons, the following categories are set:
 +
<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>== Summary ==</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>[[Category:Item icons]]</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>== Licensing ==</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>{{ScreenshotTF2}}</nowiki>}}
 +
<br>
 +
But in some newer icons, the following are set instead:
 +
<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>== Summary ==</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>{{ExtractTF2}}</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>== Licensing ==</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>[[Category:Item icons]]</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>[[Category:Cosmetic images]]</nowiki>}}
 +
<br>
 +
So, I have a few questions. One, because those icons will be completely new, they should be "ScreenshotTF2", right? Because they won't be extracted from TF2's game files or anything, and will be, instead, made from scratch using HLMV. Two, should I add "Weapon images" category for the Decorated Weapon icons, too?
 +
<br>If "ScreenshotTF2" is the right license for that, I'll be doing a cleanup on some of the Item icons where it's marked as "ExtractTF2" instead, from all the Item icons where I made a newer consistent version (in Shugo Style). [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:14, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Crate Depression ==
 +
 
 +
What do we do with the Crate Depression? I've heard the following options:
 +
# Do nothing.
 +
# Mention it as a note on the [[Unusual|unusual]] page or the [[crate]] page.
 +
# Make its own page.
 +
 
 +
From these suggestions, I would personally go with number 2, because I don't think it's enough to warrant its own page. Maybe make a redirect to said note. If you have any other suggestion feel free to bring it up.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]])
 +
:I select the second one. My idea is mentioning that some Unusuals are Untradable (on the Unusual page), and explain the reason why. I don't think we need to mention the title "Crate Depression", but at least explain why the Unusuals are untradable and perhaps include an external link to the TF2 Blog post explaining it. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:15, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
:: It was officially dubbed the crate depression, so maybe just a mention like "Dubbed "the crate depression" as a play on the great depression".<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 19:18, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
::: Still, I don't think we need to mention about the name. The name could be included on the "References" list as the title of the blogpost "Update on The Crate Depression of 2019", and that would be enough. The wording of the Note could be something like this: "Some Unusual items are untradable, as a result for a fix of a market-crashing bug that affected the game in July 25th, which resulted in some [[Crates]] having 100% Unusual chance drops upon unboxing them. Due to the sheer amount of Unusuals unboxed in that day, Valve has decided in marking all Unusual items that were unboxed from that day and from those specific crates as untradable, with the exception of the first one unboxed per Steam user.[1]". And then [1] redirects to the References section for the Unusual page, containing a link with the title "Update on The Crate Depression of 2019". [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:35, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== UserTalk "Topic" pages are very broken. ==
 +
 
 +
Hi. The new comment system, that were implemented for UserTalk pages (as well Talk pages), is really broken. Sometimes it's impossible to see the replies that people make. I just made a comment on a Topic which I can't view my own post. Another issue is that you can't put URLs on these posts, otherwise it'll ask to complete a CAPTCHA that does not appear on the page, so I had to replace the dots into "(.)", just to bypass the URL detection. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:20, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
:I believe the solution to not seeing new answers is to go to the talk page itself (usually it's just looking at a topic, just click "read" or "discussion") then refresh, this worked for me. But yes, we've all already voted to take this new system away. It seemed better, but it ended up being worse. You can't even use "show preview" either. RJ should be removing this asap, but it's tricky because it might delete stuff. <br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 23:26, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== "Main article: Item set" under == Item set == ==
 +
 
 +
Is it possible to add "Main article: Item set" under == Item set == like it's done with == Painted variants == that adds "Main article: Paint Can" under it? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 18:43, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
<nowiki>{{main|Item Set}}</nowiki> I guess? Turns into<br>{{main|Item set}}[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 18:53, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
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:Yeah but you need to add it manually. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 05:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
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:: Discuss it on the [[Template talk:Set|talk page]] I guess?<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 10:34, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Inaccuracies regarding beta content? ==
 +
 
 +
I'm a sucker for TF2's beta content. I love it, but there is a ginormous amount of inaccuracies regarding them. Stuff like Demoman's Beta Head, which in reality is just Marphy Black's Blu Demoman Head from a Beta Demoman mod he made in 2009. Can we please also add stuff like the Trigger, the Incendiary Cannon particles, the Badlands Models and more?
 +
 
 +
== About Discords on tournament pages ==
 +
 
 +
A Discord server requires an account to visit, personally I think it shouldn't be included on tournament (medal) pages, but rather have other sources like Steam or a reddit post. There might be an exception if it's linked in the "External links" section, and mention that you need an account for it. I don't think it falls under advertising (because the entire page is basically advertising then). Options I can think of are:
 +
# Remove all Discord links, no exceptions
 +
# Remove all Discord links, except the ones in the "External links" section of the article
 +
 
 +
Personally, I go for 2.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 10:49, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:I'd vote for option 1, but option 2 sounds good aswell. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS, cursive, sans-serif; color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  10:53, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
::2, yes. We could possibly add something similar to <nowiki>{{citation needed}}</nowiki> but it's "account needed" instead. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:19, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
::: So just like, <sup>account needed</sup>?<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 13:27, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
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:::: Option 1. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 15:35, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
::::: 1st option. As I stated on [[Talk:ARG#This page is full of external links, some that seem untrustworthy.|Talk:ARG]], all external sources should be accessible at all times without the need to register in order to view the content. I'll write a policy in regard to this sometime in the future. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 17:31, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Should we note when Cosmetic Items fall on the ground? ==
 +
 
 +
Heya, so... I've been thinking for a while, I don't think we have any information regarding Cosmetic Items falling to the ground when a player is killed, do we? Not all Cosmetic Items fall from the ground, mostly hats are the ones that does, however, there's some exceptions, like the [[Cold Case]]. Should we add a line saying that, for example: "The Cold Case falls from the player upon death, and remains on the world for a few seconds", or even a more simple route, just a "Category" on the page for "falling cosmetics", huh? For Cosmetics that does not fall to the ground, we don't need to explain anything, if anything, a category for "non-falling cosmetics" could work. At the moment, we have category for Paintable items, Jiggleboned items, and so on, so I wouldn't see an issue with "falling" cosmetics too. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:47, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Regarding pages on custom maps, competitions, MVM missions, and such ==
 +
<br> Discussion moved here from [[Talk:Custom maps]]. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  11:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Seeing as how the question of custom maps being included has caused nothing but vulgarities and personal attacks, I would like to put forth a discussion about whether or not unofficial custom maps should stay on this Wiki at all. We have no ways to determine whether a map is to be considered ''worthy'' of having its own article or not. On the other hand, they also don't have much significance to TF2 itself other than their usage on some community servers. Most of them have their own pages and such whereever they're uploaded anyway, be it GameBanana, TF2Maps, or something like that. Personally, I'm for removing all the custom map pages on the Wiki. Please leave your thoughts below. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  19:07, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
:I'm unaware of the vulgarity or personal attacks, but I can see this happening (I saw a while ago someone who was banned for adding offensive content to their UserPage, but I'm unsure on what was that about). In the topic of personal attacks, the Trivia on [[WelcomeToMyMine (mission)]] regarding the two Mann Up players could be classified as an attack to them, regardless if you see them as "toxic" or not. In any regard, I don't think the Wiki should specifically mention users for their actions, as it's done on WelcomeToMyMine page.
 +
:Because these maps are custom made, it's very easy for someone to add a reference on the map for something, just to be featured on the "Official Wiki".
 +
:In conclusion, I vote for removal of custom maps. Since we are in the topic of "user-created content", we should also remove [[Wallpapers|user-created wallpapers from this page]]. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:56, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
::I agree to removing the unofficial wallpapers as well. The userpage that was deleted for ''offensive content'' was throwing shade at our admins/moderators and some other editors (if I recall correctly, please don't take this as a fact). The reason they were so upset was that the page for their custom map was deleted or something like that, for which they held a grudge for over '''three years.''' Custom MVM missions should also be purged, along with pages about TF2Maps contests and community events (like Canteen Crasher), as they are of no relevance to TF2 in the Official Wiki. If a map was made official because it won a contest (as is the case with [[Mountain Lab]]), it can be mentioned on the page of the map itself. Custom map pages and MVM missions can be moved to the userpages of their creators, if they wish to keep them.
 +
::The trivia you mentioned, ''"GuYs lOOK i CaN CaRrY" and "The carrier's pocket slave" references the user BrutalPizza and Trickstabber. They are known for their toxic behaviour and are notorious for kicking new players frequently. At times they can be seen in the tour Two Cities when in Mann Up. Experienced Mann Up players encourage players that aren't close to them to never play with them,'' is definitely overboard. There is no room for personal attacks on the Wiki, ''especially'' not for personal attacks that link to their Steam profiles. I have removed it from the page. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  06:07, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
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 +
::: It seems that the discussion isn't only about custom maps anymore. Please move it to the [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Discussion|main wiki discussion]].
 +
::: I'm not against removing bad "articles", but this approach of deleting everything seems harsh. I've personally seen articles on custom MvM missions used to help coordinate players on some Potato's servers.
 +
::: One thing we can't deny is that Valve's support isn't here anymore, you can't use "this is community-created content" as an excuse anymore. Whether we like it or not, community content is what's keeping the game "alive". — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 10:44, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
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 +
:::: If we are to keep articles on custom content, how do we decide whether something is worthy of having an article or not? Many custom map pages are nothing more than an infobox, a few images, and a line or two of text. Do you think we should keep those? What about pages like [[Construction Theme]] that are of barely any significance? I agree that custom MVM mission pages can be useful, but I don't see any reason to keep custom map pages to be honest. Perhaps we can keep the custom MVM missions if the pages adhere to certain guidelines, to avoid ending up with unfinished low-quality pages, like we have with custom maps. Keeping some articles and deleting others without coming up with a set of requirements for them might come across as picking favourites, in my opinion. Please excuse me if my messages look like an angry rant, I didn't get much sleep and I still haven't had my morning tea. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  11:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
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 +
:::::There's been a lack of solid guidelines in regard to custom content on the Wiki, and it appears that those guidelines never were written down and that the current criteria is inconsistent. To my knowledge, such guidelines weren't needed at the time as it wasn't of much importance, but due to the recent highlights of the subject something needs to be done about it.
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 +
:::::I wouldn't be entirely against removing all custom maps, though it would be rather unfortunate, as some of them (like Tark mentioned) does have some sort of value in terms of coordination/documentation. Perhaps if we were to write a policy on custom maps we could determine whether a map has enough significance to be allowed to stay/removed, though this would send us back to square 1, so it needs to be done right this time.
 +
 
 +
:::::While the page for user-created wallpapers doesn't contribute much besides being a place where users can share their wallpapers with the rest of the community, I don't see any reason to delete it; it's merely an easy-to-access page that provides the users of the Wiki (or outside the Wiki) with high-res wallpapers, and yes I'm aware most of those wallpapers can be found on TF2's website as well.
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 +
:::::Regarding that trivia entry, I'm honestly surprised that no one has caught up on that until now. Naming and shaming is definitely not allowed here on the Wiki, and I sincerely apologize if any witch-hunts occured against anyone mentioned in the entry. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 14:57, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
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 +
::::::Basically what Wookipan said, except that I don't know of any maps that should be kept. There's also the comp wiki for any comp players out there looking for competitive maps info, and they can probably cover it better than us. I'm all for custom stuff on the wiki, but it does need some guidelines. (Also the criticism directed at the wiki for not deleting [[Netherlands]] was completely unjustified as I'm 99% sure it just wasn't noticed)<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 15:18, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
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 +
:::::::Well, now knowing a bit more on what happened, I'll give my thoughts regarding custom maps being on the Wiki or not. I vote for keeping only custom maps that has been from a community-contest, a campaign (like potato.tf ones), or has been mentioned on the official blog (such as tr_walkaway), as well maps that are the "non-halloween" version of official maps, such as [[Gravestone]]'s original map [[Rumble]]. Maps that haven't been in any competition, community-content or anything, discard. For example, I don't know why we have [[Final Destination 2015|this map on the Wiki]]. However, there's some pros and cons. I think we shouldn't remove all the custom maps because of the vulgarities and the events that happened recently, but we should take an action on the most logical decision, this is an Official Wiki, so having a Custom Maps section is sure questioning for some. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:11, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
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{{outdent|7}}Keeping some custom maps wouldn't hurt, I guess. As long as we make sure that we write down a set of requirements for the maps that are to be kept on the Wiki, and stick to them. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  17:41, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
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 +
:: In patrolling, I have seen a few pages about ''unreleased'' Custom maps deleted for non-notability (I use the qualifier "unreleased" out of necessity, since the wiki uses the term both [[:Category:Custom maps|broadly]] and [[:Template:Custom Map Nav|narrowly]] to mean ''released'' Custom maps). Among the comments was the argument that an unreleased Custom map needed to have at least placed in a map competition; a problem here is that the only competitions that can result in a Custom map winning but remaining unreleased are unofficial, and so, arguably out of the scope of the official wiki. ''That said'', I accept other editors (seemingly?) accepting such maps from such competitions. 
 +
:: There are a few non-competitive maps that are more notable and influential than "contest winners" in so much as not only are they played much more often (at least historically) than the "contest winners", they have spawned many variants in the community. I am thinking specifically of [[Achievement Idle]], [[Trade Plaza]], [[Orange X]], and, maybe, [[Trade Minecraft]] (popular, but no article, yet). If we have accepted articles discussing [[Glossary of player terms#Achievement server|Achievement servers]], [[Glossary of player terms#Idle server|Idle servers]], and [[Glossary of player terms#Trading server|Trading servers]], we could justify having articles about popular maps on those servers.
 +
:: A personal issue I have with the state the unreleased Custom maps pages is that many if not most of them are [[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] that have remained so for years. IMO, these stub tags pollute the Stubs category, possibly discouraging work on higher priority articles. This is why I created [[:Category:Custom maps unreleased stubs]], which I need to finished populating (I was hoping a new editor would pick it up). These are the general rules I have applied or seen applied:
 +
:: '''Criteria for accepting articles on unreleased Custom Maps:''' Should qualify under one or more:
 +
::* Exceptionally notable in its own right; e.g., [[Walkway]], [[Trainsawlaser]](?) (There was another one I thought I saw mentioned, that was sort of a prototype for some game mode or other)  IMO, there is nothing wrong about having discussions on notability on individual maps like these. Mind you, I could imagine that what is notable to the present set of active editors could be quite different from other player.
 +
::* Very popular, presently or historically, both in playtime and derivative maps; e.g., [[Achievement Idle]]  ([https://teamwork.tf/community/map-stats#topavgplayerofficial Map Statistics] as a measure? Is there an archive?)
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::* Normal versions of ''released'' [[Halloween map]]s, Invasion maps, etc.
 +
::* Contest winners; e.g., Canteen Crasher stuff, but then there is the matter of which contests are worthy ...
 +
::* Mention in multiple "game journals of record"; (I have no idea what those journals may be, just spit-balling here)
 +
::''and'' be reasonably complete/stable (placing in a competition is a reasonable measure of completion): the map should ''not'' be just something that someone is working on. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 22:03, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
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::''and'' conform to [[Help:Style guide/Maps|Maps style]]. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 01:46, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
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 +
Surprised this topic has come up again. It's probably worth noting that we've been stuck on this for a while now. Also for other third party content entirely like 3rd party websites. I gave up and started the discussion that lead to the [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Policies#Community_websites]] policy. If it's becoming a problem again it might be worth considering something similar. I have no input on the matter personally because I'm only experienced with custom maps in the sense of server rotations and numerical/prop related stuff. My suggestion with things like this - and kind of more in line with the wiki mission - is if you go this route, prefer to translate the pages into useful general documentation of the modding support where you can, and note omnipresent community stuff where needed. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 19:57, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
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 +
== Regarding mechanics that are only found through community-made stuff. ==
 +
 
 +
So... a while ago, I added a mechanic featured on the Huntsman that, when upgraded with Projectile Penetration upgrade, it can penetrate enemy's Projectile Shielded Medics (a trait that only happens with the Huntsman, as other weapons, upgraded or not, does not go through the shield). While this is true, I don't think there's Robot Medics with shields on official maps or missions. So, what can we do about this? Should we detail as an Unused content on the [[Projectile Shield]] page? And explain from there what can or cannot penetrate the shield from there?<br>
 +
I think the latter should be the more ideal way to explain on the Wiki. We already have information regarding the unused [[Vaccinator]] shields being unused only on official maps, but they still work 100% on community-made missions. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:29, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
:That's actually quite interesting, and I feel like explaining it in the Unused Content section would be the best course of action. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  14:56, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Categories for translated picture files ==
 +
 
 +
Here are 2 translated pictures which are used on [[Mechanics/zh-hans]]. But I don't know if I should add "zh-hans" to their categories as well. <br />
 +
Please let me know which way is correct or better, and I will do the same for other translated pictures in the future.
 +
* [[file:Damagefalloff_zh-hans.png|120px]]
 +
* [[file:CritHitChance_zh-hans.png|120px]]
 +
[[File:User Dereko Name.png|75px|link=User:Dereko]] 10:03, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
:The [[Help:Language translation|Language Translation Guide]] says that the language code should be added to categories, but it doesn't mention anything about files. I think it's ok to add /zh-hans to their categories for now. If it turns out that it's not supposed to be done with files, then we can just remove it, no problem. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  10:07, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
{{Quotation|'''Dereko''' is thanking '''Vasya''' for help, with good cheer.|Thank you!|sound=Medic thanks01.wav}}
 +
 
 +
== Madness vs. Machine content on the wiki  ==
 +
With the imminent launch of Madness vs. Machines, I suppose it's time to discuss about this project that involves adding Madness vs. Machine content. Currently, several people (also from Potato's Custom MvM Servers), including myself, are making mission infoboxes such as this one [[Template:Mvm_mission_Covert_Compromise|this mission (which is of course, made by yours truly)]], as well as their respective pages (be it missions or maps). This is why for the past few weeks, there's been custom MvM-related activity going on.
 +
 
 +
As of writing, ''over half of the mission infoboxes'' (which is one of the most tedious tasks in making an MvM mission page) are already finished (and hopefully matches the quality of those used by official missions), which is significant compared to previous events hosted by Potato's, where their pages on the wiki are incomplete or missing. I personally intend to complete this project ''before 2019 ends'', despite its large scale. I am also aware the dispute of whether or not custom MvM content should even be included in the wiki in the first place, but since too much progress has already been made, the project is better off being continued.
 +
 
 +
Since this project wouldn't go unnoticed, I do want to ask any guidelines or advice regarding the implemention of custom MvM content, as simply putting all of it here without a word will certainly cause misunderstanding, one way or another. One possible issue that I do want to focus on is whether or not custom MvM content should be separated from official MvM content in regards to categories.  --[[User:Bot Rot|Bot Rot]] ([[User talk:Bot Rot|talk]]) 15:52, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:This is related to the custom content on the wiki stuff, we can't speak for that yet because staff are still discussing it, but it's best to keep it on your user space for now so you can reference it anywhere you want. And if it turns out it won't be allowed, you can simply keep it there. If it will be allowed, we move it there.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 16:35, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:: Two weeks have passed, and while we've ignored what you said, there has been no interference on the ongoing addition of Madness vs. Machines content (which are actually done by content creators for Madness vs Machines including myself). If possible, I would like to hear the final decision regarding custom content on the wiki, along with advice on the do's and don'ts. --[[User:Bot Rot|Bot Rot]] ([[User talk:Bot Rot|talk]]) 09:48, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::: I can't speak for the wiki, because I am not staff. But the discussion about custom content was going on before Madness vs Machines happened, so I'd suggest you just wait for that to finish instead. <s>Or ignore what I say again if that's what you like to do</s><br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 09:53, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Inconsistency among Halloween cosmetic/item set pages ==
 +
* On the page of [[Squid's Lid]], there is an addtional line in "Item set" section leading to [[Item sets]], while on [[Vampiric Vesture]] there isn't.
 +
 
 +
* Different descriptions for the image in "Gallery" section:
 +
<gallery>
 +
File:Steam workshop thumbnail for dr. acula.jpg|Steam Workshop banner for the Dr. Acula set.<br />(from [[Dr. Acula]])
 +
File:Cursedcaptain workshop.png|The image that accompanied the item set on the steam workshop.<br />(from [[Cursed Captain]])
 +
File:Steam workshop thumbnail for the sun king.png|Steam Workshop thumbnail for the Sun King set<br />(from [[Sun King]])
 +
</gallery>
 +
 
 +
Dereko thinks it's neccessary to unify them , what's your opinions?
 +
 
 +
[[File:User Dereko Name.png|75px|link=User:Dereko]] 08:27, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
: Personally I think it should be only "Steam Workshop thumbnail for the [set name]", because that's what the regular pages follow too.
 +
: The first point is because it got recently updated in the Item set template itself, so just remove any instance of that.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 08:56, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Broadening the definition of Event ==
 +
 
 +
... or something like that; maybe "[[Holiday]]".
 +
 
 +
Folks on IRC seemed reluctant to start an article to cover the on-going Halloween celebration. Generally, IIRC, the opposition was that we can't start an Update article until the Update is released.  I was never proposing writing anything about the expected Update. (Why would I suggest that? There is nothing to write about.) Others suggested that there was no event yet because there was no Update yet (cf. [[Scream Fortress IX]]?).
 +
 
 +
As far as an example of us starting an article to report activities ''before'' any actual Update, I offer the example of the [[Jungle Inferno Update]]; that article was started with the first Blog Post on the 16th, the Update didn’t occur until the 20th. All of the Halloween update articles cover ''both'' the Update Patch and the Event. I am not saying to report on anything that has not happened yet, only report on what is actually happening. I am not saying to have some half-ass incomplete article, I am saying to have something that completely covers what is known, rather than ignoring it because it is different than what we expect.  We seem stuck on calling something an Event only if it starts with a Patch (admittedly very clean and convenient definition), in spite of knowing features of Events can start and stop without Patches. 
 +
 
 +
What we know: {{md}} There was an in-game announcement. {{md}} Halloween-restricted cosmetics were activated immediately (We used to call '''''that''''' a [[Holiday]]!) (That used to be ''all we had'' for Halloween!) {{md}} Soul Gargoyle kill counting started. {{md}} Past Halloween maps were added to the Casual menu.  {{md}} There was an assurance made that there will be an Update with contracts and new community content.
 +
 
 +
What we don't know: {{md}} When the Update will happen {{md}} What valve will call the Update {{md}} Whether the  content will be maps or cosmetics or anything else.
 +
 
 +
We also know people have come to the wiki looking for some idea what is going on (why haven't I gotten a Soul Gargoyle yet?) and only see us ignoring the Event.
 +
 
 +
This pattern of Holiday is likely to be repeated, and we should consider how to handle it.
 +
 
 +
I say, pick a title, knowing full-well that Valve can pick its own later.  I suggest [[Scream Fortress 2019]] simply because that is close to the pattern of recent event. Maybe you prefer the title of the announcement? You know what, if that title doesn't work out after the actual Patch, we just change it, this is a wiki, wikis work like that.
 +
 
 +
All the content it needs is just the facts, especially details we have seen that were not covered in the announcement. Nothing more than "On October 2, Valve announced in-game that "Halloween has begun!" On that day, [[Holiday#Halloween|Halloween-restricted cosmetics]] were activated game-wide and [[Soul Gargoyle]]s started counting souls on all maps. Past [[Halloween map]]s were also added to the Casual Mode menu. [[Halloween Contracts]] have not been activated yet and Soul Gargoyles have not yet dropped to new players. No date has been indicated for the Contracts or content Update."
 +
 
 +
[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small>  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 02:11, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Major updates and content packs ==
 +
 
 +
Hi, I'd like to bring a new topic - as the title says, it's about major updates and content packs
 +
 
 +
TF2 is in a cycle where the only updates it gets is holiday-based updates, and their features are as it follows - New cosmetics, few bugfixes, and in case of halloween some non-permanent maps and the same set of contracts with minor changes to it.
 +
<br>The issue here is that any holiday update - be it Smissmas or Halloween (or even last summer "update") is considered a major, when it is clearly not, even if Valve may say otherwise - I've also wanted to add that I'm mainly speaking of recent updates (those being from Meet your Match update in 2016 up to now) but not all the other previous holiday updates and such necessarily, as say Smissmas 2010 could be considered a major update, and this is where I get into another thing I want to bring up - just what should we consider a major update and a content pack?
 +
 
 +
First, let's start off by defining major update - In my view it is an update that fullfills the following criteria:
 +
<br>a) Impacts or changes gameplay/an aspect of it
 +
<br>b) Adds new permanent content that is not necessarily cosmetic (ie it can be maps)
 +
<br>c) Adds new features (given that major updates almost exclusively add new features or quality of life improvements, for example minimalized viewmodels) or change already existing features
 +
 
 +
What constitutes a content pack in my view (and which could be a good starting point)
 +
<br>a) New cosmetic items or addition of other items that can be considered cosmetic or part of customization (skins, hats, taunts)
 +
<br>b) (Exclusive to holiday content packs) Non-permanent content (ie Halloween maps that are only available for duration of the event or contract set that is locked for a time peroid; although the latter is also sort of an exception if we'd be speaking of old contracts that were time-limited before JI reworked the way they worked, but it is fair to presume that any new major update with new contract set would make them permanent at a later date, akin to JI contract pass.)
 +
 
 +
There are of course some exceptions to this: [[Blue Moon Pack]] could be considered major since it did impact gameplay via its balance changes, it did introduce several new features/quality of life improvements and reworked an entire competitive mode, at least certain aspects of it. However it did not add permanent content, other than cosmetics. Other exception would be old Smissmas updates, for example [[Australian Christmas|Smissmas 2010]], as it did add new gamemode + map (so new permanent content), weapons and some balance changes (which impacts gameplay), added new features/quality of life improvements (itemtest and associated things with it, an ability to expand backpack).
 +
 
 +
And to finish - I would and we should not define an update off what Valve says, as in actual reality what Valve considers major is not really reflected in what the update in the question features.
 +
<br> tl;dr: We need to start marking updates as content or major update by their merit/features and not by what Valve says; We should change/reevaluate recent updates (starting with Halloween 2016 up to now) to whether they are major or just content packs, as well as clearly define as to what we consider content pack and a major update. [[User:Goodjob|Goodjob]] ([[User talk:Goodjob|talk]]) 14:14, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
: I would also want to add how [Patches#MU]] and [[Patches#CP]] are categorized differently than [[Template:Major_Updates_Nav]] (both Nav and patches page should show same things). If we want to categorise updates like Valve does we can use [http://www.teamfortress.com/history.php] and then put every other update in Content Packs. Also about newest "Major updates" : Smissmass 2018 isnt considered major by Valve and it added same ammount of content as normal content pack (1 case, that's it). Scream Fortess XI is even worse, it wasn't even mentioned on TF2 Blog (only in updates tab). Every "major update" since Jungle Inferno added ONLY community made content (excluding 2 Valve made taunts) such as temporary-Halloween maps, cosmetics, unusual effects and warpaints.<br>[[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]][[User:Fiat Seicento|FiatSeicento]][[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]] 14:33, 12 October 2019 (UTC)Fiat Seicento
 +
 
 +
:: I think y'all have seen me circling around the same topic on a different tack. Distinguishing  [[Holiday]], [[Halloween event]]/Scream Fortress, <o>[[Halloween mode]]</o>, and Major Updates. Valve, on occasion at least, calls Halloween an Event.
 +
 
 +
:: To the definition I would add "on or more of the following features" and add the following points:
 +
::: d) [[Storyline]] media
 +
::: e) Promotional [[ARG]]
 +
::: f) Promotional lead up, whether Update Pages, blog posts, or in-game announcements (@FiatSeicento< IMO, the SFXI in-game announcement and lead-in Halloween "mode" activation count at least as much as blog posts. I think active players are more likely to see the in-game announcements.)
 +
 
 +
:: We have overloaded "Major Update" with "Event" because past Events came with significant Updates.  Even in 2017, Halloween was a major ''Event'' in that it was widely anticipated and spiked severe activity. But as an Update, it looked like nothing, ''unless'' you see SFIX as an extension of the MAJOR Jungle Inferno -- if you look at it that way, SFIX is, by association, mush less trivia. 
 +
:: But if you don't see it that way, and say that there should be no Update page for SFIX, then you would not have the default place to describe the Major Halloween Event of SFIX.
 +
:: I have been slowly working on the Halloween Event/Update pages to clearly express that they cover both the Event and Patch aspects of how Valve and the Community play on Halloween. 
 +
:: gtg, my College-age daughter wants to watch a movie with Daddy!!!
 +
:: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small>  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 18:10, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::I think we need to make [[Event]] or [[Events]] page to straighten things up. My definitions:
 +
:::*[[Holidays]] (imo) are certain types of Events that happen annualy in certain time of a year such as: Halloween (not to confuse with Scream Fortress which is update that happens usually at the beginning of Halloween, proven this year its not same thing), Smissmass and Birthday. I didnt counted Saxxies, because they happen annualy (excluding 2017) but not in certain time of year.
 +
:::*Events are uhhh. Certain time when somethings work, but wont if event ended? I dunno. But heres list of events: Holidays ofc, Saxxies, campaign related events (Jungle inferno campaign (contracts still work, but badges were event-exclusive), Invasion (Invasion Community Update Coin worked for some time), Duck Journal event, Gun Mettle and Though Break campaigns and exc.)
 +
:::*Halloween mode is uh mode of server? Like Birthday mode its enabled by deafult at certain time and can be forced by commands. Also that Halloween enabling item.
 +
:::*Major updates and Content Packs. Content Pack is ofc anything other than normal update that adds new thing(s). Major update is (technically) very big content pack that usually has something released along with it. But wheres the border? First 3 major updates are size of content packs. Smissmass 2018 added only 1 crate but despite this on page and Nav it shows up as major update. Blue moon pack added 1 crate, tweaked weapons and reworked competetive but is still listed as content pack. We need clear definition telling us when update is content pack or rather major update.<br>[[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]][[User:Fiat Seicento|FiatSeicento]][[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]] 21:09, 12 October 2019 (UTC)Fiat Seicento
 +
 
 +
::::: '''[[Holiday]]''' may be in part a wiki construct; but, the Valve term is [[Holiday Restriction]], as appears in the item descriptions. Valve has three Holiday Restrictions, "Winter Holiday", "TF Birthday", and "Halloween / Full Moon" (Valentine's Day doesn't count?). So, Valve identifies 3 + 13 annual Holidays, give or take.  On this basis (specifically) I see no need to change [[Holiday]].
 +
::::: '''Event''': Valve additionally applies the term "[http://www.teamfortress.com/blizzbobarrabas/ "Scream Fortress '''event''']" to the collective Halloween activations, which ''over time'' have become ''much'' more than just activation of [[Holiday Restriction]]. But, practically, Valve uses "event" for any special time-limited variation in the game including community activities.
 +
:::::: '''[[Campaigns]]''' are (were?) events with Contracts with premium buy-ins?
 +
::::: '''[[Halloween mode]]''' as a term is mainly a wiki construct. Essentially, the present content of the page is covered between [[Holiday#Halloween]] and [[Halloween event]].  IMO, the only reason to keep [[Halloween mode]] as a distinct page is to change it to an article devoted to <code>tf_forced_holiday</code> and expand it to cover all of the holiday settings.
 +
::::: '''Content Packs''': I really don't know the history of the Content Packs section of [[Patches]]; I wonder if at one time these were all under Major Updates until Valve started calling certain content Patched "Packs" and "Content Packs".
 +
::::: '''Major Updates''': It only thing that seems to be a distinction from Content Pack is that a "Major Update" was also (usually) an "Event", that is, there was something different and time-limited going on in the game ''OR'' there was some [[ARG]], Storyline, or Update lead up (pages, announcements).  It looks like the wiki calls it an "Update" if either Valve Calls it an Update or it is a Holiday content patch. '''"Event" activation aside, SFXI is a bigger, more major content update than either the [[Haunted Hallowe'en Special]] or the [[Pyro Update]] (if those two are "Major", then so is SFXI).  (but [[Summer Event 2013]] was an "Event"?)''' 
 +
::::: '''''Maybe a partial solution''''' is to Move the ''Holiday'' Patches (because they sometimes minor but are always Events) into into [[Patches#Halloween]], [[Patches#Winter Holiday]], and maybe [[Patches#TF Birthday]] -- then no one will ever care again about whether they are "Major" or not.
 +
::::: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small>  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 17:26, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::::: I think that both "Major Updates" and "Content Packs" should be merged into one group just called "Updates". They may be major or not, they may be content packs or not, but in some regard, they are Updates, more than your regular "Patch". Maybe the name "Updates" could be something else, but I think we should consider merging them into something. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 18:18, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Revision as of 09:53, 16 October 2019

Contents

Are we hosting April Fools this year?

I know that it's 3 months early to be talking about this topic, but is an April Fools event going to be hosted this year? I'd love it if one is; because I've actually already prepared a draft of the patch notes that are open to the public here. They're set for Open Review, the summary has said nothing but to edit them and help to expand, and I want this event to happen. SkyTBM; inexperienced TF2 Coach, seeking out for the greater good. (talk) 16:55, 4 January 2017 (PST)

Hi. Keep in mind that a simple update page will not be enough, we would need real content. I have tried to revive this project since 2015 but I failed both times, sadly, last year we managed to get together and gather some interesting ideas, but we did not succeed because of lack of content. Anyway, if you want to see our ideas and the update notes from last year please click here and here. — Tark lm(pt-br) 23:18, 5 January 2017 (PST)
Yeah, I know Patch Notes won't be enough. Luckily, I wasn't planning for just patch notes. I have links on the page to content pages (such as weapons and taunts). Not created yet, but that's what I need help with. SkyTBM added the preceding potato comment. (Talk more about potatoes | Contribs) 17:40, 7 January 2017 (PST)

Sometimes my edit bar has a seizure.

Here's what it looks like https://youtu.be/ZlFXMp1MAAE

Not a common occurrence, but definitely also not rare. Anyar (talk) 10:02, 20 February 2017 (PST)

From what I have experienced, the "edit bar" automatically adjusts when it can't fit everything in your current browser window. I have come across this once before if you make the window full screen / reload the page it should go away. If not, try closing your browser entirely, then open it back up again. The program isn't perfect. User Twolfe Signature.png || twolfe's page || twolfe's talk page 10:08, 20 February 2017 (PST)
Oh. I often switch between a 1920x1080 monitor and a 1366x768 one. That must be it. Thanks! Anyar (talk) 11:05, 20 February 2017 (PST)

Sometimes my wiki layout messes up.

Unlike the edit bar seizure, this one has only been happening recently, and doesn't seem to be limited to one monitor resolution.

Usually it looks like this: [1] Rarely, it changes to this, often when I refresh the page, get an error, and refresh again. [2]

What is this? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anyar (talk) • (contribs)

The wiki is currently experiencing some internal errors, which is why the formatting breaks. 40pxWkPn (Talk | contribs) 05:54, 21 February 2017 (PST)
Not just me then? Yeah, this happens after the page saying there's internal errors. Anyar (talk) 06:05, 21 February 2017 (PST)
This encounters fairly regularly since Valve is neglecting the tf wiki and its servers. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 06:12, 21 February 2017 (PST)

Romanian translators anyone?

Are there any romanian translators out there that are still active and willing to give me a hand?I mean, I don't know if you guys have noticed, but there seems to be a lack of my kind around these parts... -- Je love prajitura :D (talk) 09:58, 20 March 2017 (PDT)

Hello. A lot of languages are lacking translators. We'd be much obliged if you contribute to the Romanian section or recruit more translators. There's no active Romanian translator despite you currently. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 10:22, 20 March 2017 (PDT)

Where do people get the class images from?

For each cosmetic's article, the gallery contains images for each of the 9 classes, all wearing the cosmetic. Where did they get that image from? Or, how did they make it? ⇒Leaderboard class spy.png Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 13:33, 16 April 2017 (PDT)

Those images are usually created with HLMV, please see Help:Model Viewer for more information. 40pxWkPn (Talk | contribs) 14:00, 16 April 2017 (PDT)
Oh, thanks. I didn't manage to check for your reply, sorry for late response. ⇒Leaderboard class spy.png Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 16:16, 21 April 2017 (PDT)

What is A TF2 Community?

Hello, I am New to this group And I think i have all my solutions to TF2 Here, But for Now I just wanted to ask What is A TF2 Community How can i join one? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Trump (talk) • (contribs)

The tf2 community is simply the name of all the fans and the things related to tf2 that aren't ingame. Padacuw (talk) 18:29, 20 June 2017 (PDT)

Should we delete unused user page files from long-gone users?

A rather sizable number of wiki users haven't been on since 2013 at the latest, and have many unused user page files. Should we delete these files?

Jboby1 (talk) 15:48, 3 September 2017 (PDT)

What if they come back?
I'm fine with deleting talk pages for users who are inactive and don't have a user page, or just the user page of anyone who has been inactive for years and only has a few edits (that were all made within the same timespan).
In other words I'm mostly against user pages that took a lot of effort to make, because it'd be discouraging to come back and find that gone. Thoughts? ⇒Leaderboard class spy.png Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 17:01, 3 September 2017 (PDT)
Pictogram minus.png Oppose Sometimes They Come Back ... (How come I didn't get one of those "He has risen!" do-hickies, TidB? (oh, riiiiight) ;) ... Really, it doesn't hurt anything to leave it all up, there is no valuable benefit to deleting, and it takes labor to decide if the page really should be saved or not, so on the whole, no I see not justification to delete. There is the tradition and policy that no one edits someone else's user space as long as it is conforming to the wiki's policy, and there was no Delete if Inactive Policy at the time of posting. Moreover, Anyar, the one thing that should never be deleted is Talk space, as it is the most formal record of collaboration, and IMO, the oldest records of collaboration are the more valuable, more so if the participants are now inactive. Yes, I know there is a lot of junk images, but that is a matter of opinion, and a lot of just simply unused images, but in the latter only the OP (or admin with cause) should delete it, and under the license, I'm not event sure that is proper. Mikado282 (talk) 19:27, 3 September 2017 (PDT)
I meant the talk pages with the only content being the autowiki bot's welcome message. Don't the pages take up space or something? ⇒Leaderboard class spy.png Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 12:23, 4 September 2017 (PDT)
This wiki runs on a toaster with lots of space. The deletions could theoretically be worse than having those pages. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 08:05, 5 September 2017 (PDT)

I think you all are misunderstanding my question. I'm asking if we should delete the files that were uploaded by a long-gone user for their userpage, but were never used, or are no longer used. Im not saying we should delete entire userpages.

Jboby1 (talk) 20:31, 3 September 2017 (PDT)

Those unused user files don't hurt as long as they're named correctly. If you want you can of course flag them for deletion if they're unused, but I wouldn't suggest to waste time on it. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 01:05, 4 September 2017 (PDT)

Team Fortress discord server

I am currently in the process of making a tf wiki discord server that wiki contributors can talk and discuss things similar to the irc. i am asking for ideas that can be used for the discord server. any ideas that are part of the final server will be listed in a special chat along with the person who came up with said idea. i am also looking someone who could make a logo for the discord server. i am not sure when i will release it but when i do (thats if i ever do) i will announce it in a new discussion along with a link to join it. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Neon man909 (talk) • (contribs)

I'm not sure if that's needed. Personally I like Discord better, but when I proposed the idea of moving from IRC to Discord I got completely shot down. Apparently the differences are that Discord has a cleaner and fancier UI, but IRC has better customization and all that.
FYI you made the same topic twice so I deleted the second one. ⇒Leaderboard class spy.png Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 07:07, 8 October 2017 (PDT)
It would probably support your argumentation to present a pro/contra list, since staff doesn't see much pro's in Discord over IRC. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 22:48, 8 October 2017 (PDT)

Multi-Class images

I've been thinking about multi-class images. I feel like we should just have one class in the infobox, like the all-class images.

Having 2-4 classes all standing next to each other looks kind of messy and squashes the image too much.

For example, the Deadliest Duckling just has one class. If we had just one class, I feel as if it would be neater and more consistent with everything else User Bojjob Userlink.png 02:36, 14 October 2017 (PDT)

Pictogram plus.png Support Sounds good. — Tark lm(pt-br) 06:32, 15 October 2017 (PDT)
Socked and Loaded.png
Pictogram neutral.png Neutral Multi-class images (e.g. the one to the right) look alright to me, but so does the one for Deadliest Duckling. Your call. ⇒Leaderboard class spy.png Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 07:01, 15 October 2017 (PDT)
Pictogram plus.png Support I like the idea. However, I think the limit should be at least two classes. 35pxWkPn (Talk | contribs) 07:55, 17 October 2017 (PDT)
Pictogram comment.png Comment How about a slow transition between single-class images. MediaWiki has an extension that does exactly this. Brightgalrs (talk) 14:36, 26 October 2017 (PDT)

Voice actor link proposal

If a voice actor has a Wikipedia page, link to that (with [[wikipedia:<NAME>|<NAME>]]) instead of IMDB. This would affect all articles about characters with voice actors as well as Voice actors. Brightgalrs (talk) 14:43, 26 October 2017 (PDT)

Skins and Stranges

Valve's addition to weapon retextures to Team Fortress 2 did seemingly spark some controversy at first, with TF:GO spreading rapidly, and it has been mostly accepted by the community. But did Valve really incorporate this in a way that will benefit their users? I'm not whining about the need to buy keys to open reward crates received through contracts after getting a pass for them, but I do want to address the topic of strange items, stat-clocks and strangifiers and how they 'interact' with war paints and skinned items. To get the topic out of the way, the addition of the civilian grade clock to add strange qualities to your 'common' skins was a nice idea, sure, let's add some value and desire to the lower end of the skin spectrum, but not adding them for the other 'not crate' grades is quite strange. In my opinion, this lack additions decreases value from all other grades of skins, aside from ones which can aquire strange status through key requiring crates. For example, why should I buy or try to obtain a war paint for my scattergun to change its visual appearance if I cannot put it on my strange variant? It seems like a waste, especially considering people will be purchasing war paints to put on their favourite weapons which are likely in strange quality, and few people are going to want to turn down their Hales Own rocket launcher for a default rocket launcher with a changed texture. I believe, to fix this, war paints should either be usable with strange weapons, or, stat clocks should be added for freelance and mercenary grades alongside the civilian grade, to make these variants of weapons more appealing to the community (heads up Valve, this means community market purchases! Yay!).

Who knows, maybe it's just me. But I'm sure that it would be a great addition to the game, considering the past few major updates have included new items which would benefit greatly from said change. Who knows, another somewhat minor update with some additions may also breathe some more life back into the trading community.

Thanks for reading my post. Opinions and feedback would be warmly welcomed, preferably without a side of salt or death threats. Thanks, EJB9 (talk) 08:38, 11 November 2017 (PST)

Difficulty logging in

So far, I have only been able to log in on mobile after much refreshing. I have been unable to log in on desktop and pages take a while to load.

Every attempt to log in results in an error message, “Team Fortress Wiki uses cookies to log in users. You have cookies disabled. Please enable them and try again.”

In addition, average number of edits per day seem to have gone down dramatically over the past three days.

User Upgrade Signature.png 17:14, 20 November 2017 (PST)

We have experienced this on and off again the last couple years. The senior editors seem to understand it a bit better than I.
Preview seems greatly slowed this time.
Yes, I have used mobile editing as a workaround to the log on issue. On the desktop, when repeating the login attempts does not get around the false cookie issue, opening the wiki in another window sometimes shows that I am logged in even though the first window is telling me to try again.
A couple months back, when this was really bad, ICS noticed it and told me that they would talk with somebody at Valve, and overnight, things greatly improved (coincidence?) in time for a few weeks of pre-Halloween editing.
Now that the Jungle Infrerno Update is dying down .... Mikado282 (talk) 05:15, 21 November 2017 (PST) 11:09, 21 November 2017 (PST)
The tip I forgot: Using the "keep me logged in" option avoids the log in problem, once you get in. Just take pains to not forget you password through the resulting non-use. Mikado282 (talk) 11:09, 21 November 2017 (PST)

Teamfortresswiki discord server

Hi, for the past 3-4 months on and off i have been working on a tfwiki discord server, atm it is prety basic, but i would like some people to join and maybye give feedback, help out and just is genral be helpful. Even though it is not necessary to make such server, i have been bored and its been a fun journey so far

https://discord.gg/DZmKRNN

Neon man909 (talk) 05:31, 14 January 2018 (PST)

Hi there,

It appears that you have created this kind of topic before, which has already been discussed; see TFW:Discussion#Team Fortress discord server. I'd also recommend you to take down said server, as it would be considered unofficial. Thanks. 30pxWkPn (Talk | contribs) 06:02, 14 January 2018 (PST)

How to make articles

I just joined the wiki, and I would like to know how to submit an article for the mod Lambda Fortress. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Youporkchop5 (talk) • (contribs)

Hello Porkchop :) I'd advice you to read about article creation either here or here. Have fun. PS: Don't forget to sign off your comments with 4 tildes. Faghetti V.2 (talk) 00:49, 22 January 2018 (PST)

How do you change the title of an infobox?

Hi, I am trying to translate the smissmas cosmetic articels into german but I dont know how to change the title of the infobox and were do you get the inventory pictures? When you take a picture of a cosmetic you didnt make can you still upload a picture of it? Timmy the mini (talk) 16:26, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

  1. I would connect with the Translation Community (I'm not there; I only translate English), but I think the autotranslation of the title in the infobox is sort of template-controlled.
  2. Inventory Pictures? not me. Usually I find that someone already has uploaded it, especially by the time you are translating.
  3. What you can upload: Help:Images Certainly anything under some sort of Valve license -- anything you see in the game. Are you worried about something you found on someone's Workshop page?
  4. Oh! Wait! Here! Help:Cosmetic Images.
Mikado282 (talk) 00:58, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Adapting Wikipedia Visual Editor

Is there a way to make it so we can edit using the Wikipedia Visual Editor? That would be a great way to edit easier. User BrofessorBeta SignaturePic.jpgBrofessorBeta (Talk | contribs) 16:56, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Error in the Wiki

For some reason, there is a floating "more" just below the arrow next to "view history", is this supposed to be there?

Portal Wiki Down?

For the last week, I've tried to acess the Portal wiki using the VWN link at the bottom of the main page. It appears to be down. Has this been happening for a while, or is it a new problem? Or, worse case scenario, is it not just down, but entirely defunct? Jboby1 (talk) 05:57, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Regarding this, I can confirm that thePortalWiki is still down. Someone please fix. I know I'm not active at all on the TF2Wiki anymore but I'm a moderator over there and want to keep working on things. ~Sven~ (talk) 22:23, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects

I have started a list List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects. This is in part for my own interests, but also as an orientation for new editors. The intention is to make this Team Fortress Wiki:List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects. I would appreciated comment. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (To Do) 23:09, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

TF2's Halloween Paintings

First post here, but anyone know how to get the Halloween paintings images? Or do we already have them archived here or something? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1544349505 is the type of stuff I'm talking about. I've been looking for this image for ages, but just now figured out where I remember it from (in-game obv). Is it possible to get the picture? Or maybe upload start a wiki page about the paintings Valve made for Halloween?

If you mean the actual file used for the painting, you could extract its texture from tf2_textures_dir.vpk Killicon baleful beacon.pngVasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 08:04, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
Here you go. I believe this was a texture extract, but I can look it for you later. Enjoy. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:12, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
As far as an archive goes, there is no Category AFAIK for textures as such. I wish there was a Category for all textures organized by source (sounds like a Project to me), but as it is, the many images that have been uploaded are scattered in many different categories under Category:Images. Were you only interested in the that one portrait? Other paintings uploaded from from Mann Manor are in Category:Mann Manor images. M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk) (To Do) 14:26, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Trivia related to original workshop description/names, as well "SFM Promo Images".

Hi, I've noticed an abundance of information regarding the original workshop submission since 2014 throughout today. For quite some time, information regarding the original workshop content weren't exactly valid trivia (save for a few, usually related to styles not included). However, I feel like most of these trivia related to the original desc/name should not be in here. I will separate them in each category, as well giving my view on each of them (if I support it, or not):


  • Pictogram comment.png Addition to Steam Workshop Thumbnails on the class gallery
    • Pictogram plus.png This has been a standard for quite some time now. It makes easier to extinguish Valve-made content from Community-made content just by scrolling to the gallery. I agree in keeping it.

  • Pictogram comment.png Addition to images featuring the Item Set ("SFM Promo") from Item Sets that were accepted officially (found on Item Sets only, does not count items that has the same theme, but doesn't have official item sets)
    • Pictogram plus.png I agree on the addition only for actually fully-accepted item sets. The image can be from the SFM promo artwork (usually found on a Item Set collection from the Workshop), and the image should only be included on the related Item Set page, and should not be added to each individual item page.

  • Pictogram comment.png Addition to images featuring the Item Set ("SFM Promo") from items that share similar looks / items that originated from a collection, but were not added as a full Item Set by Valve
    • Pictogram minus.png This one I vote for no, there are a ton of cosmetic items that were made to go with Item Sets, that simply got their items added separately, or got only few of the items accepted. Right now, the Wiki has some cosmetic pages with these images, while a lot of other does not have. It's very inconsistent right now, and I feel like these aren't really needed, one can just visit the Workshop submission to see those

  • Pictogram comment.png Addition to "SFM Promo Art" for any cosmetic item, not related to item sets or unofficial item sets
    • Pictogram minus.png Disagree. Again, this is really inconsistent across the Wiki, majority of the cosmetic pages does not have SFM Promo Item related to the cosmetic, while some, do. An example of one that has is the Vampire Vanquisher

  • Pictogram comment.png Trivia/Notes information regarding "This X Item was submitted along Y, Z items".
    • Pictogram minus.png Disagree. In the past, something similar was made regarding to this, there were a lot of Trivia based on original item sets from the workshop, but all of those were moved to Notes instead. It seems now that there's a whole batch of trivia information about the same thing, mostly because new users added to the Trivia, and not to a new Notes section. I vote for neither keeping on the Trivia, or the Notes page, considering the dense amount of cosmetics we now have on TF2, it would be just too much to edit or to add it in. I have other suggestions to mention the other similar items

  • Pictogram comment.png Add a new section called "Related Items" on cosmetic pages.
    • Pictogram plus.png Add a section below the Update History that includes links to related items from unofficial sets, this is not needed for official sets since these already have a table to go with.

  • Pictogram comment.png Trivia regarding old Workshop names and descriptions
    • Pictogram minus.png I disagree. This has been for quite some time not enforced as valid Trivia, but, it has been seeing a lot of amount of attention lately with the newer cosmetics. I think it's a bit of a stretch Trivia related to an item's original name, or description. Considering that those are community-created, the authors has any freedom to add what they want, while in-game... some names and descriptions requires changes to sometimes suit the game better, or to avoid copyright issues. Right now, there's way too much information regarding old workshop name/desc, way too much.

  • Pictogram comment.png Workshop "blurb" for cosmetic's quotation
    • Pictogram minus.png Disagree. This was rarely used in the past, and would only be used for few cases where no interesting voice lines could be used to a cosmetic, however, recently, a lot of the newer cosmetic pages have only the "blurb", and in most of times, it's from here where people make Trivias related to the original Workshop descriptions. I think it's better left without any quotation (in case no voice line was chosen), than to use the workshop "blurb".

Please leave your thoughts below on what you think, do you agree with the suggestions I made above, or do you have another look on those? If you agree on all the purposed changes, please add a comment with the Pictogram plus.png - ({{c|+|}}) attached to your comment, if not, add Pictogram minus.png - ({{c|-}}) instead. If you want to simply discuss or suggest something else, please use the Pictogram question.png - ({{c|?}}) for that.

Thank you. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 18:41, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

I broadly support Gabrielwoj's comments, so far as they apply to Cosmetics pages, as long as it is understood that Cosmetics pages aren't particularly my focus. Hoewever,
  • Pictogram comment.png Addition to Steam Workshop Thumbnails on the class gallery
  • Pictogram plus.png I didn't mind this, and assumed it acceptable, and also saw it as incidentally promoting the successful projects (e.g., Frontline and Mayann). A can accept that some can see this being abused, but haven't experienced that myself.
  • Pictogram comment.png Trivia regarding old Workshop names and descriptions
  • Pictogram minus.png I disagree. I didn't think this wasn't being enforced, I see such Trivia being deleted, and have deleted it when I caught it. Mind you, in this Event, I haven't monitored the new cosmetic pages, and I haven't checked the Jungle Inferno cosmetics for this violation.
  • Pictogram comment.png Add a new section called "Related Items" on cosmetic pages.
    • Pictogram minus.png I disagree. If I understand you correctly, you want to use such a section to show the relationship of items that were proposed as a set but set not released as a set. I don't see this as important enough to mention anywhere. If certain of such items are particularly famous, then links in See also could be sufficient.
  • Pictogram comment.png Workshop "blurb" for cosmetic's quotation
    • Pictogram plus.png I opposed a blanket prohibition of Workshop "blurb" for Cosmetics. OK, yes I may concede that using the Workshop "blurb" is an abusable "easy out". While I do not care for whole cloth copying of huge amount of Workshop blurb, I strongly oppose any suggestion that the quotations draw from voice lines only; IMO, any Valve content is acceptable as long as it conformed to Help:Style guide/Quotes. As long as it is a good Quotation, it is far better than an unrelated Voice line. Note, my exposure to the use of Workshop blurbs (limited to maps) is to selectively crop the best parts. To put a fine point on it, I see no necessity that a Voice line be part of a quotation. Certainly, Comic dialog should be acceptable.
M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk) (To Do) 14:36, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your views on it, very interesting takes.
To reply a few of your questions... The trivia/information about old name and desc has been scattered throughout a lot of pages, some even on the older item pages, while others in the more recent items. Example of an old item is... (well, it seems that was removed from time, it was on Scout Shako mentioning about the item's name and the original workshop description), while examples for new items are Athenian Attire, Hephaistos' Handcraft and Olympic Leapers.
About the See Also, I think it's okay right now, as you mentioned. However, I've seen some pages just putting cosmetic items that are from the same "hat type" or style, for example, Compatriot, most of the links there on See Also are simply due to an item having an "eagle" on it. I think we shouldn't do that and only focus as how you explained to us. The idea of "Related Items" should probably not be added, but we shouldn't also add too much on the "See Also" section.
I agree on your view on the blurbs. Although, I still see some pages which could have used quotes, but still goes with the blurb. I guess we could use the blurb for placeholders, until someone has a nice and creative quote to put it there. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 16:38, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
The quotes are an attractive nuisance; nubeditors think they do a service by adding one. I had assumed that nubs were just slaping weak at best viocelines on cosmetics, using the blurb for cosmeticts I haven't seen. Is that new to the SF2018 Cosmetics?
Sometimes the blurb is pretty good.
Aslo, nubs, if you are using a blurb, there is no rule saying you have to use the whole blurb. M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk) (To Do) 04:43, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
I see. But we still can use quotes from Official Videos or Comics, I've seen those before. There's a lot of variations to use it too. But yeah, blurbs has the advantage of being quick and able to use specific parts of it.
Yes, that's for the new SF2018 cosmetics, these are just an example, because there are several other examples throughout the Wiki.
I think we should get going with editing some of these stuff. So I guess we should start removing Trivia that originates from original Workshop name/desc, as well Trivia about "item sets"? User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 09:16, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Including "Action taunt" to each respective Class page.

Hey, something that always bothered me is the lack of taunts on the class pages, currently, "Action taunt" are only specified on update Navigation tables, and on the Taunts page, however, I believe there should be a table for the taunts available for a specific class, as well all-class taunts, and perhaps minimizing some of the information found on Taunts. My suggestions are:

  • Adding the information found on Taunts to each class page (the current table is fine, and could be directly exported to a class page, for example);
  • Rework the "Action taunts" section on the Taunts page to have a similar style table found on "List of Class cosmetic items".

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions below, thanks. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 20:58, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Team-Colored Styles section

Well, here's something else I've been thinking... There are some items that have a diverse amount of styles, but we currently do not show BLU color Styles. This is a problem for items like Duck Journal, which we just see the default BLU skin, and not all the rest of the duck skins. My suggestion is the following:

  • Modify the infobox template to include "Styles". So, for instance, Styles can show up at the infobox (similar on how it looks on Team Captain page), and differing by each team and style. In the case for Duck Journal, the styles available on the infobox would be: None, Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Demoman, Heavy, Engineer, Medic, Sniper, Spy, Quackston Hale. I think it would be important to note when it's a style, perhaps by using a prefix "Style: ".

As we are already on the topic of the infobox, something I also suggest is:

  • Add support to non-team colored items for the Infobox Class/Styles section. There is currently a problem on showing off different models per class for items that are not team-colored. An example is Dead Little Buddy, due to the lack of support on the infobox for such, the previews for class differences had to be added below, on the gallery section.

With these changes, I believe that the section about Styles could be removed. And only be mentioned in case the style is only affected by painting.

Leave your thoughts below. Thank you. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 19:36, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Something I don't get about clipping cosmetics.

So, something that I don't get about one of the Scout's cosmetics is that the Flak Jack. You can't equip it whilst having the Weight Room Warmer equipped, I personally think that it would look better if you could equip both. Here are some pictures of what it would look like, maybe they could just fix the clipping up in the back. Scout with Weight Room Warmer and without Flak Jack

Scout with both the Weight Room Warmer and the Flak Jack equipped The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rozeyy (talk) • (contribs) 30 December 2018

This is for discussion related to the Wiki, please post your concerns about clipping cosmetics on the Steam Community Discussions. Thanks! Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 17:55, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Question regarding Wikitext source

Hello! I was wondering if it is possible to view the source of a Wiki page without editing it / locking it? Thanks in advance! Tocksi (talk) 20:42, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by "locking it", unless you're speaking of protected articles, in which case can only be performed by the Wiki staff. As for viewing the source of a page without editing, I don't believe we have a read-only mode for editing. Either log out of your account or open a new window in private/incognito mode as it does not preserve your browsing activity . . Wookipan (talk | contribs) 22:15, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

The Wiki has issues loading images with special characters.

Hey. So, a while ago I replaced the image for Brütal Bouffant, and noticed that neither the direct link of the image, or the image on the page is being shown. Upon close inspection, the error code "Error creating thumbnail: convert: unable to open image `/var/www/html/w/images/0/03/Brtal_Bouffant.png': No such file or directory...", shows that it's trying to find for the "Brtal_Bouffant.png" file, showing that it's not being able to read the "ü" part of Brütal Bouffant. I don't know if this gets fixed by itself over time, but the Brütal Bouffant page looks pretty messy with the error code. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:56, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for reporting this! I've deployed an update to the servers to fix this (exact commit, for interested parties; our new hosting doesn't have the en_US.utf8 locale). Should be all sorted across the site now! -RJ 02:27, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Inclusion of Steam Workshop's original name for the Cosmetic Item / Weapon / Map

Hi. I want to make a small poll and know what people think about this subject. I'd like to know your thoughts on this. Do you...

  • Pictogram plus.png Support keeping the original Workshop names on "...under the name", on the main summary?
  • Pictogram minus.png Or you'd prefer the exclusion of the original Workshop names on the page, removing the "...under the name" section.

Please leave a small insight and thoughts about your vote decision. Here mine:

  • Pictogram minus.png - I think we should remove the name from the pages. We had previously decided to remove information regarding trivia to old workshop names (as well information about unreleased styles or other content). There's some Workshop names which are just codenames (Crone's Dome being "Loss of witches (Bastinda_2012)"), and some of them having phrases on the name (such as Insulated Inventor's "Insulated innovator: V wow this keeps happening"). Most of the time, the original names serve no real purpose, as trivia regarding the name are no longer being supported, and these are left just occupying unnecessary space on the page.

Hopefully, with this discussion, we can decide in either keeping them or not, and resolve the confusion we are having at the moment. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 16:26, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

  • Pictogram minus.png - I never saw aby purpose in mentioning their original workshop names, as ultimately Valve decides to keep the name or not of items (save for maps), and the name of the item on workshop is like really not that important - besides that, the viewer can check the original name himself, by checking the workshop page, so it's quite redundant to note that in the article. Goodjob (talk) 16:33, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Pictogram comment.png Equivocating 2 Specific to mentioning the development name in the Lead. I wondered if the practice was grandfathered. I did some checking, the form was established two months after the Workshop opened with the release of the first of the Workshop items.
From the December 22, 2011 edit of BFD: 'The Big Elfin Deal was contributed to the game via the Steam Workshop, with the name "The Elf".'
So, actually, its not like it is a new thing, in spite of my impressions or questionable recollections, or suggestions, otherwise. It really has "always been done that way." But, Gabrielwoj makes some great points, some of the "names" are really unimpressive at best. I don't think the old names are important, but maybe someone thought they were. But, we've chatted about this on and off for a few months, at least since it got cold, and no support for keeping them. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 04:03, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Pictogram comment.png Equivocating 3 A candidate for keeping, which was deleted, was Monster Mash, it is a notorious name IRL, but Valve had copyright reason, so thought, but maybe there real issue was style. IMO, much of the time, I don't care about the pre-release name. But I also don't care about detailed descriptions in the cosmetic leads, or detailed recapitulations of comics int their supposed Synopses. 23:52, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Pictogram plus.png Strong support for keeping the original workshop names in the main summary This change is so tiny it barely affects anything, and I like seeing the original names; sometimes having their own little references or just giving an example what the name could have been, which is enjoyable to me as a reader. If we truly wanted to remove this small addition, all those sentences would be 'This item was contributed to the Steam Workshop' which seems lifeless and is just saying what's already in the infobox, which actually makes readability worse. The arguments above, the names sometimes being codenames or having phrases in them are pure cherrypicking and don't portray accurately what the original names usually are - we could always remove such names on a case-by-case basis. And of course, the argument 'just occupying unnecessary space on the page' is pointless as we are literally talking about just a few words here. { TidB | t | c } 10:39, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
There's pros and cons on keep the original workshop names. The pros being: Sometimes it can be interesting, older names can be better than the new names, and it's also useful for those who make images (as most of the time, the folder name for a cosmetic is based on the original workshop name). Although, there's a few cons, such as: workshop names being changed after being accepted in-game (so it would require removal of the name in a future edit), workshop names with codenames (like Crone's Dome), or workshop names with actual phrases in it. Other issues that comes with Workshop original names is that it makes new users include trivia regarding the old name, which we decided to drop these types of trivia (I'd say the same for the publicity blurb, but that was discussed before, so). I kinda stopped removing the workshop names (I did for like 15 items, then someone asked to me why, and then I halted my edits), but I know some editors are removing when making improvements to the page. It's something that is still debatable, nonetheless. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 14:18, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

The cache system is way too slow.

Hi. The cache system on the Wiki, ever since it was migrated to MediaWiki 2.0 (I think, I just know that it the main framework was updated), has ever since been very slow. I tend to upload a lot of images, and a lot of times, I have to wait for days for an image to catch up, I almost can't ever check if my work looks good on the page, requiring me to check only when the image is finally fully cached. Here's an example, an image I recently updated.

The problem is that the old image size from the previous revision gets used for the new image, and so it stretches very poorly on the page. Other times, the image seems to be properly sized, but still appears blurry in the page, as shown here on Weight Room Warmer, which in case of that image, it was uploaded in 14:07, 22 January 2019, almost 1 month later and the image is still not fully cached.

And other times, the images doesn't properly update at all, as seen on Assassin's Attire, some paint variant tables (that were uploaded around 16:37, 7 July 2018) show up the previous version instead. I'm not sure if this is a case of the cache or something else, but even when I attempted re-uploading the file, it didn't worked.

I remember I didn't had these issues on the previous MediaWiki. Would there be a way to improve the time for the cache system, or perhaps optimize it somehow? I've worked and been into other Wikis, and this is the only one which I see this problem happening. The Weight Room Warmer pic was just an example, but there's other images around the Wiki having the same or similar problems (some from old uploads, other from recent modifications). Thanks. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 20:25, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Documentation about Abuse Report and Bug Report on the Wiki?

Hi. I think the Wiki should have a page related to the Abuse Report system ('F7' key). I started to wonder if something was already covered, but apparently, the only mention of it seems to be on List of default keys. I also think we should document Bug Reporting as well. The addition to Bug Reporting could facilitate users who wants to report a game-breaking bug (for the Finder's Fee hat), although, I really don't know if in-game bug report system works for that. As for the Abuse Report system, we got pages for Coaching, the Workshop button on the main menu, Options, especially sprays, as well many other stuff. I think a page about it should be documented. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 22:00, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

If I understand you correctly, since the wiki has articles for Coaching, the Workshop button on the main menu, and Options, then, for completeness there should be Report Player (Abuse Report) and Report Bug/Bug Report articles.
Technically, while there is a Workshop button on the Main Menu, the Steam Workshop covers the whole Valve interface rather than the MM button. And I don't see any broad "Options" article.
That said, Report Player (Abuse Report) and Report Bug/Bug Report do seem to be long-missing articles, as long as they focus on the Team Fortress 2 interface, especially as a how to.
M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 00:19, 14 March 2019 (UTC) 23:47, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
I attempted writing a page for it, it's currently on my sandbox. I named specifically "Abuse Reporter", that's how the game calls it by the in-game tip that is shown on the loading screen. I haven't taken any screenshots related about it, but please let me know what you think. You may edit the page if you see any mistakes or that you think section should be rewritten. The page is currently a "stub", even though I haven't actually added the template. I was thinking about adding the information that the rules applied to the report has to be followed from the Steam Subscriber Agreement, but I couldn't find any info regarding if these reports are really complied by those same rules. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:19, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
As far as content, I have no idea of anything to do with abuse reporting, so keep going. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 23:58, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

The new talk page layout

I've noticed that some talk pages, mostly new ones, have this new, weird layout style which is way more different than the normal talk page. Example: Talk:Operation Memes vs Machines. Not only is this talk page laggy and annoying to deal with, but it also doesn't show replies half the time. I wanted to reply to a reply, so first I had to do some weird refresh magic to get the reply to pop up, but then when I finished my reply, the layout asked me to do "the captcha below," but no matter how many times I did it, there was no captcha. Does anyone know how to disable this, or are we just stuck with this? Pyro emblem RED.png BeingAwesom Pyro emblem RED.png (talk · contribs) 03:10, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

It should be removed soon. See TFW:Technical requests#StructuredDiscussions. — Tark lm(pt-br) 04:49, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
FWIW, BeingAwesom, I did respond the Shadows topic that prompted this topic, my original response didn't show then showed until I fix a typo and hasn't been seen since. You can see my response if you search through the history. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 17:40, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Promotional or Distributed?

With the recent addition of the new templates for availability (great idea btw), I think it is about time that we 'clear up' the usage of "promotional" and "distributed". These terms, at the moment, seem to be used almost interchangeably on a lot of pages.

For example:

These are apparently promotional: Jaunty Globetrotter, Jaunty Explorer, Conspiracy Cap

While these are apparently distributed: TF2Maps Ray of Sunshine, TF2Maps Charitable Heart, Spectral Snowflake, Gift of Giving 2016, Public Accessor, Thought that Counts

Personally, I feel that 'promotional' refers to something that got used for promoting something (duh) and acquire money from players. This includes mostly donation medals. 'Distributed' (for me) refers to something that was distributed to the player for doing something specific (event, etc). For example, Titanium Tank Participant Medal 2017 is a clear distributed item as it got distributed to everyone who completed the tour.

I know one could argue that "the player buying the medal is something specific" and "donation medals also gets distributed" or, on the other hand, "event medals always promote the event they are from", but why have two terms for the same thing? We should really make a line of some kind so it means something.

Exception could exist (as always), but if anyone has any other strong opinions on what should be what - speak up :o

And also: why are the words for 'distributed' so much different between pages for a lot of languages? That should really be streamlined, unless they are some weird languages that change on a case-to-case basis (even for single words, somehow).

Should we include the Item Kind twice on Graded Items?

Hi. I was noticing something in game... Graded items contains both the Item Kind + Grade on their descriptions, but these items also have an additional Item Kind right below it. Take for example this [picture], we can see "Commando Grade Guitar" and "Guitar" right below it. Should we include this on each Graded Cosmetic Page? Additionally, this isn't the case while viewing an item on Steam Community, as seen [here], only mentioning "Commando Grade Guitar" and nothing else. This looks like a bug, rather than a feature, but anyway, it's how it's in the game. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 14:06, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Does this count as mentioning it twice on the SC? GrampaSwood (talk) 14:09, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
Maybe. Also, good point. These Graded items doesn't have level in-game, but apparently show up in SC. The "Guitar" on TF2 is on the same string color as the Level in SC, now I know why it's mentioned twice, because the Level [#] doesn't show up in-game. Now we have two things to discuss, one the addition to the Item Kind, and this situation with Item Level and viewing on SC. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 16:31, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Addition to "Community Market" under the Infobox Picture.

Hi. I've made a mock-up of what could be possibly added to several cosmetic/tool pages: i.imgur.com/z2edATE.png. Clicking on that blue button will redirect the user to "Steam Community Market :: Showing results for: Team Fortress 2, "Diplomat"".
Additional thoughts: I've made the button blue to be different to the one's seen like here, which allows to buy directly from the Mann Co. Store (via browser). I've made a "simple fix", but it may be possible to technically include the price too, backpack.tf shows the price in the Community Market, so I believe it's somewhere on the TF2 API? Although, with this method, we would need to include buttons for all the different marketable qualities (the Diplomat, for example, has listings for both Unique and Strange versions of the item).
The button can also be worded like: "View available listings for the Diplomat on the Steam Community Market".
I find it lacking that we don't have a direct link to Market Listings for marketable items. Thoughts?User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:56, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Additionally, we should include "Marketable: Yes/No" on the Basic Information as well, no? User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:59, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
Pictogram plus.png Agree Great idea, that's my favorite feature on Dota Wiki. Alternatively, we could use the item's defindex (from GetSchemaItems) to return the listings instead (like this: appid:440 prop_def_index:416). Also, even though it's somewhat possible to return the item prices, I don't think it's a good idea, Market prices tend to fluctuate from time to time. — Tark lm(pt-br) 23:49, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
Nice, I was trying to figure out if there was an "index" or code that could be used. We can possibly obtain this info from a list of indexes or something, and the infobox directly grabs that information on the template (not requiring to, for instance, having to search by the item's name, like "&q=Diplomat"). User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 00:09, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
{{defindex}} already exists, so it was simple to create a {{Buy now}} button that redirects to the Market (see User:Tark/BuyNow). Changing the background image requires additional permissions, tho. orz — Tark lm(pt-br) 18:00, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Looks nice. I suppose you dropped the "the" on "View listings on Steam Community Market" because it wouldn't fit? Also, we could just create another image if that's the case. I think it's really important to distinguish both Steam Community Market links from direct TF2 Purchases, as I believe there's going to be pages with both. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 22:08, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Should be "View listings on the Steam Community Market" now, thanks! Could you make a slightly different version of this image? — Tark lm(pt-br) 22:44, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
How different? I can make the 2 Steam Logos blue. I say blue as it's the predominant color on Steam Community. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:18, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
How's this? User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:21, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Pictogram tick.png Done. — Tark lm(pt-br) 16:32, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Nicely done. Now, we just need two things: Add the string "Marketable: Yes/No", No shows up when there's no "| marketable", and Yes shows up when there's "| marketable" on the item's infobox table. The second thing is, we should add similar type of buttons for each Paint Can, currently there's no option to purchase them (or to view listings on the Community Market). User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:11, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Also, with the inclusion of the string above, we need to find a way to specify which qualities are Marketable and which ones aren't. For instance, we can have the Marketable Listings on the Scattergun page, but that only applies to Strange and Killstreak variations... I don't know exactly how can we specify each... User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:25, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

About plurals.

So, about plurals... how do we specify when an item's name or kind should be pluralized? Robin Walkers are both shoes, and the name is also pluralized, so I can see why it was pluralized here. I've recently made an edit to Blizzard Britches, to make it plural, as it's a pair of pants, and the name is in plural. However, I'm still unsure about the rest of the summary. In Robin Walkers, it's mentioned "They are...", while in Blizzard Britches, I still kept the traditional "It".
So, what can I do here? Should all pluralized names receive the "are/were/they" treatment? I can see pages like Shin Shredders still mentioning the item in singular. Also, should all items that are "a pair of boots", "a pair of pants", "glasses", be pluralized, despite if their names aren't, due to their kind? User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 16:06, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Cosmetic Item floating "Bugs"... I think we should get rid of those.

Hey. So... in some pages, there are bugs like... "When this item is equipped upon the Spy, it visibly floats in front of his lapel.". I wouldn't consider these as bugs, it's just how the model is positioned on the class. These type of "bugs" can be seen in pages like Operation Gear Grinder Badge (as well all the other Operation Badges) and a few others (I remember seeing on Power Up Canteen, but it looks like it was removed already). I think we shouldn't list these are bugs, rarely this has an unintended effect (mostly when the hat bone goes to prp_hat on Sniper, which causes the hat to re-position a bit, but even so, it's very few Sniper hats that actually has this issue. As an example, the Wiki Cap on Sniper clips on the top of his head, most likely that the bone was transitioned from hat to prp_hat, so he could grab while doing his Melee Taunt, and the only hat I can think of now with an issue like this, is the Toadstool Topper on Sniper).
So, yeah, I vote Pictogram cross.png No. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:13, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Definitely not a bug, it was specifically requested for our Cap that Cup medal to be floating in front of the person so it doesn't clip with stuff like the Veteran's Attire on Soldier. It might be unintentional that it's so far, but it's definitely not a bug. I vote removal too
GrampaSwood (talk) 08:35, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
I will keep an eye on and remove any "bugs" related to this. I've seen other medals which were also made to "float" so it reduces clipping with shirt items. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 16:37, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Mann Co. Store extra descriptions

Hey. So, I was looking around the Mann Co. Store, and some items have an extra description on them. For example, Something Special for Someone Special has this, while any decalable item has this. Other examples come from paint cans, Backpack Expander, Name Tag, Desc Tag, Decal Tool and so on. Should we include these more-detailed descriptions somewhere? If so, where? User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 00:08, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Issues with Scream Fortress 2018 Item Icons.

Hello, could someone please investigate why some icons for Scream Fortress 2018 are not updating accordingly? As some of you may know, I've been making new Item Icons, and for the majority of the SF2018 items, none of the icons are being updated with the latest revisions. The following icons has been updated, but their icons never refresh to the current revision:

These icons are the ones I noticed since I've updated them recently, but other SF2018 items may have been having the same issue (the only one so far with no issues was the Vampire Vanquisher).
As a side note, the Gaelic Glutton icon on the Demoman Cosmetic Items table is also stretched, this is due to a previous revision for the icon which was smaller. Ever after 2 changes (the first one to fix the size, and the second one which is a complete new icon), the icon is still having issues showing the current revision.
Thanks. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 14:05, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Seems to me that it's cache issues again. Similarly to this, some of the painted variants on Assassin's Attire aren't updating. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 18:18, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Updated once again. Highway Star seems to not even show the thumbnail, regardless of the revision. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 16:14, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Highway Star fixed itself, but Deadbeats is another item with the same problem. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 20:41, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Well, Highway Star is again not working, as well two new icons from the Summer Pack 2019:
All the rest of Summer 2019 items are working just fine, it's just those 2 (+ Highway Star) that doesn't seem to be refreshing. While the Highway Star appears fine in here, it doesn't refresh on this page, and possibly others. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:47, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
More icons:
User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:00, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Changing the titles and the name of certain items and item sets.

Hey there everyone! I'm new to the translation section of the Wiki. I have a problem with the translation with the titles of some pages and items. The translation guide only says to add a DISPLAYTITLE on the top of the page, but the item doesn't change name. I noticed that if i add a

| name = NameExample

in the item info section, I can change the item's name. But sometimes it says Template:Dictionary/items/nameexample Same thing goes for item sets. Is there someone who can explain me how it works please?

I would be really happy! :D D-ray Ent. (talk) • (contribs) 29th of June 2019 20:18 CEST

Hello,
The wiki works with the Dictionary, here you can find all translations for items and other things. If you want to edit it, click on the "items" section, scroll down to the appropriate subsection and then edit it.
At the bottom of the page I linked is the documentation on how to use the dictionary. If you have any more questions regarding the dictionary and editing is, feel free to post it on the talk page.
Also please sign your comments using ~~~~

GrampaSwood (talk) 18:35, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Regarding recent consistency edits

In recent times, there've been some edits by Denied and Hinaomi to improve the consistency of pages, but I'm don't quite agree with both the methods and the way of how these edits are made. For one part, the main three consistency points seem to be

  1. Changing 'This item' to the actual item name
  2. Removing the 'under the name' part in the community-created sentence
  3. Removing the second Steam Workshop link in the community-created sentence

While I agree with the last point, I still find the first two confusing and don't agree with them - the usage of 'this item' avoids the repetition of the item name which also improves the visual aspects of the article, since the sentences are usually placed vertically adjacent to each other. They also make it harder in languages such as German because it can be awkward to use the {{item name}}-ified versions all the time. For the second point, just refer to the the discussion above.

What I still don't get though is how these consistency edits are appearing out of thin air, especially the first point. The only source of doing these edits is this talk page entry and it provides no reasoning for why to do this kinda thing, just mentioning 'consistency' which could always go both ways. The second point is even weirder, because there's the discussion right above, there's no consensus being reached and apparently it's still getting edited in (or rather, out)?

Because in the end, I think we might actually create more inconsistency because I don't see all the pages getting updated, and especially not the translated versions of them. I'd love to hear your input.

{ TidB | t | c } 20:37, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

I'd like to keep "This item was awarded" instead of full name. I was adding them from the begging, but at some point Hinaomi started adding full names, and becuse he's here longer than, I assumed he knows better than I. That's it. If it's neccesarry I can revert them back to "This item". About the "was added under 'name'" I think it's not necesarry to add them, because Valve was changing almost every Workshop item added, and now they're adding pretty much unchanged names straight from the Workshop, so adding them is kinda pointless. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 07:48, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
I don't think reverting will be necessary, these kinda edits can be done when other parts of the article have to be edited as well, but I agree. For the 'under the name' thingy, I'd say that when the name is the same, we could either use 'under the same name' (as it's been used before), or just omit it. As I said in the discussion above, of course it doesn't make sense to always include the original workshop name, but generally it could be a good idea. { TidB | t | c } 07:55, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
@TidB : I would have thought Denied's question to Hinaomi was rhetorical rather than supportive of the change away from "This item". I have always felt the abstraction serve the purpose of readability. As for mentioning Workshop names, I've participated in a couple of discussions on this, but I am not going to try to locate them during my lunch walk. In them I think I was probably supportive of not mentioning the Workshop name unless it was actually notable, exceedingly rare cases to be sure, IMO. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 17:31, 24 July 2019 (UTC) M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 19:55, 24 July 2019 (UTC)•
Sorry for the late reply, and I don't have much time so I gotta say this real quick. I don't mind if it changed to either way, just make them consistence with others. 02:07, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Please help me with Categories.

Hello. Soon, I'll be doing Item icons for (hopefully) all Decorated/War Painted weapons. While I was checking categories for existing Item Icons, I noticed some inconsistency. In some icons, the following categories are set:
== Summary ==
[[Category:Item icons]]
== Licensing ==
{{ScreenshotTF2}}
But in some newer icons, the following are set instead:
== Summary ==
{{ExtractTF2}}
== Licensing ==
[[Category:Item icons]]
[[Category:Cosmetic images]]
So, I have a few questions. One, because those icons will be completely new, they should be "ScreenshotTF2", right? Because they won't be extracted from TF2's game files or anything, and will be, instead, made from scratch using HLMV. Two, should I add "Weapon images" category for the Decorated Weapon icons, too?
If "ScreenshotTF2" is the right license for that, I'll be doing a cleanup on some of the Item icons where it's marked as "ExtractTF2" instead, from all the Item icons where I made a newer consistent version (in Shugo Style). User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:14, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Crate Depression

What do we do with the Crate Depression? I've heard the following options:

  1. Do nothing.
  2. Mention it as a note on the unusual page or the crate page.
  3. Make its own page.

From these suggestions, I would personally go with number 2, because I don't think it's enough to warrant its own page. Maybe make a redirect to said note. If you have any other suggestion feel free to bring it up.
GrampaSwood (talk)

I select the second one. My idea is mentioning that some Unusuals are Untradable (on the Unusual page), and explain the reason why. I don't think we need to mention the title "Crate Depression", but at least explain why the Unusuals are untradable and perhaps include an external link to the TF2 Blog post explaining it. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 19:15, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
It was officially dubbed the crate depression, so maybe just a mention like "Dubbed "the crate depression" as a play on the great depression".
GrampaSwood (talk) 19:18, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Still, I don't think we need to mention about the name. The name could be included on the "References" list as the title of the blogpost "Update on The Crate Depression of 2019", and that would be enough. The wording of the Note could be something like this: "Some Unusual items are untradable, as a result for a fix of a market-crashing bug that affected the game in July 25th, which resulted in some Crates having 100% Unusual chance drops upon unboxing them. Due to the sheer amount of Unusuals unboxed in that day, Valve has decided in marking all Unusual items that were unboxed from that day and from those specific crates as untradable, with the exception of the first one unboxed per Steam user.[1]". And then [1] redirects to the References section for the Unusual page, containing a link with the title "Update on The Crate Depression of 2019". User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 19:35, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

UserTalk "Topic" pages are very broken.

Hi. The new comment system, that were implemented for UserTalk pages (as well Talk pages), is really broken. Sometimes it's impossible to see the replies that people make. I just made a comment on a Topic which I can't view my own post. Another issue is that you can't put URLs on these posts, otherwise it'll ask to complete a CAPTCHA that does not appear on the page, so I had to replace the dots into "(.)", just to bypass the URL detection. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:20, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

I believe the solution to not seeing new answers is to go to the talk page itself (usually it's just looking at a topic, just click "read" or "discussion") then refresh, this worked for me. But yes, we've all already voted to take this new system away. It seemed better, but it ended up being worse. You can't even use "show preview" either. RJ should be removing this asap, but it's tricky because it might delete stuff.
GrampaSwood (talk) 23:26, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

"Main article: Item set" under == Item set ==

Is it possible to add "Main article: Item set" under == Item set == like it's done with == Painted variants == that adds "Main article: Paint Can" under it? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 18:43, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

{{main|Item Set}} I guess? Turns into

Main article: Item set

GrampaSwood (talk) 18:53, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Yeah but you need to add it manually. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 05:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Discuss it on the talk page I guess?
GrampaSwood (talk) 10:34, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Inaccuracies regarding beta content?

I'm a sucker for TF2's beta content. I love it, but there is a ginormous amount of inaccuracies regarding them. Stuff like Demoman's Beta Head, which in reality is just Marphy Black's Blu Demoman Head from a Beta Demoman mod he made in 2009. Can we please also add stuff like the Trigger, the Incendiary Cannon particles, the Badlands Models and more?

About Discords on tournament pages

A Discord server requires an account to visit, personally I think it shouldn't be included on tournament (medal) pages, but rather have other sources like Steam or a reddit post. There might be an exception if it's linked in the "External links" section, and mention that you need an account for it. I don't think it falls under advertising (because the entire page is basically advertising then). Options I can think of are:

  1. Remove all Discord links, no exceptions
  2. Remove all Discord links, except the ones in the "External links" section of the article

Personally, I go for 2.
GrampaSwood (talk) 10:49, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

I'd vote for option 1, but option 2 sounds good aswell. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 10:53, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
2, yes. We could possibly add something similar to {{citation needed}} but it's "account needed" instead. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:19, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
So just like, account needed?
GrampaSwood (talk) 13:27, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
Option 1. — Tark lm(pt-br) 15:35, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
1st option. As I stated on Talk:ARG, all external sources should be accessible at all times without the need to register in order to view the content. I'll write a policy in regard to this sometime in the future. User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png Wookipan (talk | contribs) 17:31, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Should we note when Cosmetic Items fall on the ground?

Heya, so... I've been thinking for a while, I don't think we have any information regarding Cosmetic Items falling to the ground when a player is killed, do we? Not all Cosmetic Items fall from the ground, mostly hats are the ones that does, however, there's some exceptions, like the Cold Case. Should we add a line saying that, for example: "The Cold Case falls from the player upon death, and remains on the world for a few seconds", or even a more simple route, just a "Category" on the page for "falling cosmetics", huh? For Cosmetics that does not fall to the ground, we don't need to explain anything, if anything, a category for "non-falling cosmetics" could work. At the moment, we have category for Paintable items, Jiggleboned items, and so on, so I wouldn't see an issue with "falling" cosmetics too. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 19:47, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Regarding pages on custom maps, competitions, MVM missions, and such


Discussion moved here from Talk:Custom maps. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 11:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)


Seeing as how the question of custom maps being included has caused nothing but vulgarities and personal attacks, I would like to put forth a discussion about whether or not unofficial custom maps should stay on this Wiki at all. We have no ways to determine whether a map is to be considered worthy of having its own article or not. On the other hand, they also don't have much significance to TF2 itself other than their usage on some community servers. Most of them have their own pages and such whereever they're uploaded anyway, be it GameBanana, TF2Maps, or something like that. Personally, I'm for removing all the custom map pages on the Wiki. Please leave your thoughts below. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 19:07, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

I'm unaware of the vulgarity or personal attacks, but I can see this happening (I saw a while ago someone who was banned for adding offensive content to their UserPage, but I'm unsure on what was that about). In the topic of personal attacks, the Trivia on WelcomeToMyMine (mission) regarding the two Mann Up players could be classified as an attack to them, regardless if you see them as "toxic" or not. In any regard, I don't think the Wiki should specifically mention users for their actions, as it's done on WelcomeToMyMine page.
Because these maps are custom made, it's very easy for someone to add a reference on the map for something, just to be featured on the "Official Wiki".
In conclusion, I vote for removal of custom maps. Since we are in the topic of "user-created content", we should also remove user-created wallpapers from this page. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 19:56, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
I agree to removing the unofficial wallpapers as well. The userpage that was deleted for offensive content was throwing shade at our admins/moderators and some other editors (if I recall correctly, please don't take this as a fact). The reason they were so upset was that the page for their custom map was deleted or something like that, for which they held a grudge for over three years. Custom MVM missions should also be purged, along with pages about TF2Maps contests and community events (like Canteen Crasher), as they are of no relevance to TF2 in the Official Wiki. If a map was made official because it won a contest (as is the case with Mountain Lab), it can be mentioned on the page of the map itself. Custom map pages and MVM missions can be moved to the userpages of their creators, if they wish to keep them.
The trivia you mentioned, "GuYs lOOK i CaN CaRrY" and "The carrier's pocket slave" references the user BrutalPizza and Trickstabber. They are known for their toxic behaviour and are notorious for kicking new players frequently. At times they can be seen in the tour Two Cities when in Mann Up. Experienced Mann Up players encourage players that aren't close to them to never play with them, is definitely overboard. There is no room for personal attacks on the Wiki, especially not for personal attacks that link to their Steam profiles. I have removed it from the page. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 06:07, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
It seems that the discussion isn't only about custom maps anymore. Please move it to the main wiki discussion.
I'm not against removing bad "articles", but this approach of deleting everything seems harsh. I've personally seen articles on custom MvM missions used to help coordinate players on some Potato's servers.
One thing we can't deny is that Valve's support isn't here anymore, you can't use "this is community-created content" as an excuse anymore. Whether we like it or not, community content is what's keeping the game "alive". — Tark lm(pt-br) 10:44, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
If we are to keep articles on custom content, how do we decide whether something is worthy of having an article or not? Many custom map pages are nothing more than an infobox, a few images, and a line or two of text. Do you think we should keep those? What about pages like Construction Theme that are of barely any significance? I agree that custom MVM mission pages can be useful, but I don't see any reason to keep custom map pages to be honest. Perhaps we can keep the custom MVM missions if the pages adhere to certain guidelines, to avoid ending up with unfinished low-quality pages, like we have with custom maps. Keeping some articles and deleting others without coming up with a set of requirements for them might come across as picking favourites, in my opinion. Please excuse me if my messages look like an angry rant, I didn't get much sleep and I still haven't had my morning tea. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 11:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
There's been a lack of solid guidelines in regard to custom content on the Wiki, and it appears that those guidelines never were written down and that the current criteria is inconsistent. To my knowledge, such guidelines weren't needed at the time as it wasn't of much importance, but due to the recent highlights of the subject something needs to be done about it.
I wouldn't be entirely against removing all custom maps, though it would be rather unfortunate, as some of them (like Tark mentioned) does have some sort of value in terms of coordination/documentation. Perhaps if we were to write a policy on custom maps we could determine whether a map has enough significance to be allowed to stay/removed, though this would send us back to square 1, so it needs to be done right this time.
While the page for user-created wallpapers doesn't contribute much besides being a place where users can share their wallpapers with the rest of the community, I don't see any reason to delete it; it's merely an easy-to-access page that provides the users of the Wiki (or outside the Wiki) with high-res wallpapers, and yes I'm aware most of those wallpapers can be found on TF2's website as well.
Regarding that trivia entry, I'm honestly surprised that no one has caught up on that until now. Naming and shaming is definitely not allowed here on the Wiki, and I sincerely apologize if any witch-hunts occured against anyone mentioned in the entry. User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png Wookipan (talk | contribs) 14:57, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
Basically what Wookipan said, except that I don't know of any maps that should be kept. There's also the comp wiki for any comp players out there looking for competitive maps info, and they can probably cover it better than us. I'm all for custom stuff on the wiki, but it does need some guidelines. (Also the criticism directed at the wiki for not deleting Netherlands was completely unjustified as I'm 99% sure it just wasn't noticed)
GrampaSwood (talk) 15:18, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
Well, now knowing a bit more on what happened, I'll give my thoughts regarding custom maps being on the Wiki or not. I vote for keeping only custom maps that has been from a community-contest, a campaign (like potato.tf ones), or has been mentioned on the official blog (such as tr_walkaway), as well maps that are the "non-halloween" version of official maps, such as Gravestone's original map Rumble. Maps that haven't been in any competition, community-content or anything, discard. For example, I don't know why we have this map on the Wiki. However, there's some pros and cons. I think we shouldn't remove all the custom maps because of the vulgarities and the events that happened recently, but we should take an action on the most logical decision, this is an Official Wiki, so having a Custom Maps section is sure questioning for some. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:11, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Keeping some custom maps wouldn't hurt, I guess. As long as we make sure that we write down a set of requirements for the maps that are to be kept on the Wiki, and stick to them. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 17:41, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

In patrolling, I have seen a few pages about unreleased Custom maps deleted for non-notability (I use the qualifier "unreleased" out of necessity, since the wiki uses the term both broadly and narrowly to mean released Custom maps). Among the comments was the argument that an unreleased Custom map needed to have at least placed in a map competition; a problem here is that the only competitions that can result in a Custom map winning but remaining unreleased are unofficial, and so, arguably out of the scope of the official wiki. That said, I accept other editors (seemingly?) accepting such maps from such competitions.
There are a few non-competitive maps that are more notable and influential than "contest winners" in so much as not only are they played much more often (at least historically) than the "contest winners", they have spawned many variants in the community. I am thinking specifically of Achievement Idle, Trade Plaza, Orange X, and, maybe, Trade Minecraft (popular, but no article, yet). If we have accepted articles discussing Achievement servers, Idle servers, and Trading servers, we could justify having articles about popular maps on those servers.
A personal issue I have with the state the unreleased Custom maps pages is that many if not most of them are Stubs that have remained so for years. IMO, these stub tags pollute the Stubs category, possibly discouraging work on higher priority articles. This is why I created Category:Custom maps unreleased stubs, which I need to finished populating (I was hoping a new editor would pick it up). These are the general rules I have applied or seen applied:
Criteria for accepting articles on unreleased Custom Maps: Should qualify under one or more:
  • Exceptionally notable in its own right; e.g., Walkway, Trainsawlaser(?) (There was another one I thought I saw mentioned, that was sort of a prototype for some game mode or other) IMO, there is nothing wrong about having discussions on notability on individual maps like these. Mind you, I could imagine that what is notable to the present set of active editors could be quite different from other player.
  • Very popular, presently or historically, both in playtime and derivative maps; e.g., Achievement Idle (Map Statistics as a measure? Is there an archive?)
  • Normal versions of released Halloween maps, Invasion maps, etc.
  • Contest winners; e.g., Canteen Crasher stuff, but then there is the matter of which contests are worthy ...
  • Mention in multiple "game journals of record"; (I have no idea what those journals may be, just spit-balling here)
and be reasonably complete/stable (placing in a competition is a reasonable measure of completion): the map should not be just something that someone is working on. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 22:03, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
and conform to Maps style. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 01:46, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Surprised this topic has come up again. It's probably worth noting that we've been stuck on this for a while now. Also for other third party content entirely like 3rd party websites. I gave up and started the discussion that lead to the Team_Fortress_Wiki:Policies#Community_websites policy. If it's becoming a problem again it might be worth considering something similar. I have no input on the matter personally because I'm only experienced with custom maps in the sense of server rotations and numerical/prop related stuff. My suggestion with things like this - and kind of more in line with the wiki mission - is if you go this route, prefer to translate the pages into useful general documentation of the modding support where you can, and note omnipresent community stuff where needed. -- Lagg Backpack Stickybomb Launcher.png 19:57, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Regarding mechanics that are only found through community-made stuff.

So... a while ago, I added a mechanic featured on the Huntsman that, when upgraded with Projectile Penetration upgrade, it can penetrate enemy's Projectile Shielded Medics (a trait that only happens with the Huntsman, as other weapons, upgraded or not, does not go through the shield). While this is true, I don't think there's Robot Medics with shields on official maps or missions. So, what can we do about this? Should we detail as an Unused content on the Projectile Shield page? And explain from there what can or cannot penetrate the shield from there?
I think the latter should be the more ideal way to explain on the Wiki. We already have information regarding the unused Vaccinator shields being unused only on official maps, but they still work 100% on community-made missions. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:29, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

That's actually quite interesting, and I feel like explaining it in the Unused Content section would be the best course of action. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 14:56, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Categories for translated picture files

Here are 2 translated pictures which are used on Mechanics/zh-hans. But I don't know if I should add "zh-hans" to their categories as well.
Please let me know which way is correct or better, and I will do the same for other translated pictures in the future.

  • Damagefalloff zh-hans.png
  • CritHitChance zh-hans.png

User Dereko Name.png 10:03, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

The Language Translation Guide says that the language code should be added to categories, but it doesn't mention anything about files. I think it's ok to add /zh-hans to their categories for now. If it turns out that it's not supposed to be done with files, then we can just remove it, no problem. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 10:07, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
Thank you!
Dereko is thanking Vasya for help, with good cheer.

Madness vs. Machine content on the wiki

With the imminent launch of Madness vs. Machines, I suppose it's time to discuss about this project that involves adding Madness vs. Machine content. Currently, several people (also from Potato's Custom MvM Servers), including myself, are making mission infoboxes such as this one this mission (which is of course, made by yours truly), as well as their respective pages (be it missions or maps). This is why for the past few weeks, there's been custom MvM-related activity going on.

As of writing, over half of the mission infoboxes (which is one of the most tedious tasks in making an MvM mission page) are already finished (and hopefully matches the quality of those used by official missions), which is significant compared to previous events hosted by Potato's, where their pages on the wiki are incomplete or missing. I personally intend to complete this project before 2019 ends, despite its large scale. I am also aware the dispute of whether or not custom MvM content should even be included in the wiki in the first place, but since too much progress has already been made, the project is better off being continued.

Since this project wouldn't go unnoticed, I do want to ask any guidelines or advice regarding the implemention of custom MvM content, as simply putting all of it here without a word will certainly cause misunderstanding, one way or another. One possible issue that I do want to focus on is whether or not custom MvM content should be separated from official MvM content in regards to categories. --Bot Rot (talk) 15:52, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

This is related to the custom content on the wiki stuff, we can't speak for that yet because staff are still discussing it, but it's best to keep it on your user space for now so you can reference it anywhere you want. And if it turns out it won't be allowed, you can simply keep it there. If it will be allowed, we move it there.
GrampaSwood (talk) 16:35, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
Two weeks have passed, and while we've ignored what you said, there has been no interference on the ongoing addition of Madness vs. Machines content (which are actually done by content creators for Madness vs Machines including myself). If possible, I would like to hear the final decision regarding custom content on the wiki, along with advice on the do's and don'ts. --Bot Rot (talk) 09:48, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
I can't speak for the wiki, because I am not staff. But the discussion about custom content was going on before Madness vs Machines happened, so I'd suggest you just wait for that to finish instead. Or ignore what I say again if that's what you like to do
GrampaSwood (talk) 09:53, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Inconsistency among Halloween cosmetic/item set pages

  • Different descriptions for the image in "Gallery" section:

Dereko thinks it's neccessary to unify them , what's your opinions?

User Dereko Name.png 08:27, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Personally I think it should be only "Steam Workshop thumbnail for the [set name]", because that's what the regular pages follow too.
The first point is because it got recently updated in the Item set template itself, so just remove any instance of that.
GrampaSwood (talk) 08:56, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Broadening the definition of Event

... or something like that; maybe "Holiday".

Folks on IRC seemed reluctant to start an article to cover the on-going Halloween celebration. Generally, IIRC, the opposition was that we can't start an Update article until the Update is released. I was never proposing writing anything about the expected Update. (Why would I suggest that? There is nothing to write about.) Others suggested that there was no event yet because there was no Update yet (cf. Scream Fortress IX?).

As far as an example of us starting an article to report activities before any actual Update, I offer the example of the Jungle Inferno Update; that article was started with the first Blog Post on the 16th, the Update didn’t occur until the 20th. All of the Halloween update articles cover both the Update Patch and the Event. I am not saying to report on anything that has not happened yet, only report on what is actually happening. I am not saying to have some half-ass incomplete article, I am saying to have something that completely covers what is known, rather than ignoring it because it is different than what we expect. We seem stuck on calling something an Event only if it starts with a Patch (admittedly very clean and convenient definition), in spite of knowing features of Events can start and stop without Patches.

What we know:  ·  There was an in-game announcement.  ·  Halloween-restricted cosmetics were activated immediately (We used to call that a Holiday!) (That used to be all we had for Halloween!)  ·  Soul Gargoyle kill counting started.  ·  Past Halloween maps were added to the Casual menu.  ·  There was an assurance made that there will be an Update with contracts and new community content.

What we don't know:  ·  When the Update will happen  ·  What valve will call the Update  ·  Whether the content will be maps or cosmetics or anything else.

We also know people have come to the wiki looking for some idea what is going on (why haven't I gotten a Soul Gargoyle yet?) and only see us ignoring the Event.

This pattern of Holiday is likely to be repeated, and we should consider how to handle it.

I say, pick a title, knowing full-well that Valve can pick its own later. I suggest Scream Fortress 2019 simply because that is close to the pattern of recent event. Maybe you prefer the title of the announcement? You know what, if that title doesn't work out after the actual Patch, we just change it, this is a wiki, wikis work like that.

All the content it needs is just the facts, especially details we have seen that were not covered in the announcement. Nothing more than "On October 2, Valve announced in-game that "Halloween has begun!" On that day, Halloween-restricted cosmetics were activated game-wide and Soul Gargoyles started counting souls on all maps. Past Halloween maps were also added to the Casual Mode menu. Halloween Contracts have not been activated yet and Soul Gargoyles have not yet dropped to new players. No date has been indicated for the Contracts or content Update."

M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk) (Help Wanted!) 02:11, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Major updates and content packs

Hi, I'd like to bring a new topic - as the title says, it's about major updates and content packs

TF2 is in a cycle where the only updates it gets is holiday-based updates, and their features are as it follows - New cosmetics, few bugfixes, and in case of halloween some non-permanent maps and the same set of contracts with minor changes to it.
The issue here is that any holiday update - be it Smissmas or Halloween (or even last summer "update") is considered a major, when it is clearly not, even if Valve may say otherwise - I've also wanted to add that I'm mainly speaking of recent updates (those being from Meet your Match update in 2016 up to now) but not all the other previous holiday updates and such necessarily, as say Smissmas 2010 could be considered a major update, and this is where I get into another thing I want to bring up - just what should we consider a major update and a content pack?

First, let's start off by defining major update - In my view it is an update that fullfills the following criteria:
a) Impacts or changes gameplay/an aspect of it
b) Adds new permanent content that is not necessarily cosmetic (ie it can be maps)
c) Adds new features (given that major updates almost exclusively add new features or quality of life improvements, for example minimalized viewmodels) or change already existing features

What constitutes a content pack in my view (and which could be a good starting point)
a) New cosmetic items or addition of other items that can be considered cosmetic or part of customization (skins, hats, taunts)
b) (Exclusive to holiday content packs) Non-permanent content (ie Halloween maps that are only available for duration of the event or contract set that is locked for a time peroid; although the latter is also sort of an exception if we'd be speaking of old contracts that were time-limited before JI reworked the way they worked, but it is fair to presume that any new major update with new contract set would make them permanent at a later date, akin to JI contract pass.)

There are of course some exceptions to this: Blue Moon Pack could be considered major since it did impact gameplay via its balance changes, it did introduce several new features/quality of life improvements and reworked an entire competitive mode, at least certain aspects of it. However it did not add permanent content, other than cosmetics. Other exception would be old Smissmas updates, for example Smissmas 2010, as it did add new gamemode + map (so new permanent content), weapons and some balance changes (which impacts gameplay), added new features/quality of life improvements (itemtest and associated things with it, an ability to expand backpack).

And to finish - I would and we should not define an update off what Valve says, as in actual reality what Valve considers major is not really reflected in what the update in the question features.
tl;dr: We need to start marking updates as content or major update by their merit/features and not by what Valve says; We should change/reevaluate recent updates (starting with Halloween 2016 up to now) to whether they are major or just content packs, as well as clearly define as to what we consider content pack and a major update. Goodjob (talk) 14:14, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

I would also want to add how [Patches#MU]] and Patches#CP are categorized differently than Template:Major_Updates_Nav (both Nav and patches page should show same things). If we want to categorise updates like Valve does we can use [3] and then put every other update in Content Packs. Also about newest "Major updates" : Smissmass 2018 isnt considered major by Valve and it added same ammount of content as normal content pack (1 case, that's it). Scream Fortess XI is even worse, it wasn't even mentioned on TF2 Blog (only in updates tab). Every "major update" since Jungle Inferno added ONLY community made content (excluding 2 Valve made taunts) such as temporary-Halloween maps, cosmetics, unusual effects and warpaints.
Killicon hhg.pngFiatSeicentoKillicon hhg.png 14:33, 12 October 2019 (UTC)Fiat Seicento
I think y'all have seen me circling around the same topic on a different tack. Distinguishing Holiday, Halloween event/Scream Fortress, <o>Halloween mode</o>, and Major Updates. Valve, on occasion at least, calls Halloween an Event.
To the definition I would add "on or more of the following features" and add the following points:
d) Storyline media
e) Promotional ARG
f) Promotional lead up, whether Update Pages, blog posts, or in-game announcements (@FiatSeicento< IMO, the SFXI in-game announcement and lead-in Halloween "mode" activation count at least as much as blog posts. I think active players are more likely to see the in-game announcements.)
We have overloaded "Major Update" with "Event" because past Events came with significant Updates. Even in 2017, Halloween was a major Event in that it was widely anticipated and spiked severe activity. But as an Update, it looked like nothing, unless you see SFIX as an extension of the MAJOR Jungle Inferno -- if you look at it that way, SFIX is, by association, mush less trivia.
But if you don't see it that way, and say that there should be no Update page for SFIX, then you would not have the default place to describe the Major Halloween Event of SFIX.
I have been slowly working on the Halloween Event/Update pages to clearly express that they cover both the Event and Patch aspects of how Valve and the Community play on Halloween.
gtg, my College-age daughter wants to watch a movie with Daddy!!!
M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk) (Help Wanted!) 18:10, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
I think we need to make Event or Events page to straighten things up. My definitions:
  • Holidays (imo) are certain types of Events that happen annualy in certain time of a year such as: Halloween (not to confuse with Scream Fortress which is update that happens usually at the beginning of Halloween, proven this year its not same thing), Smissmass and Birthday. I didnt counted Saxxies, because they happen annualy (excluding 2017) but not in certain time of year.
  • Events are uhhh. Certain time when somethings work, but wont if event ended? I dunno. But heres list of events: Holidays ofc, Saxxies, campaign related events (Jungle inferno campaign (contracts still work, but badges were event-exclusive), Invasion (Invasion Community Update Coin worked for some time), Duck Journal event, Gun Mettle and Though Break campaigns and exc.)
  • Halloween mode is uh mode of server? Like Birthday mode its enabled by deafult at certain time and can be forced by commands. Also that Halloween enabling item.
  • Major updates and Content Packs. Content Pack is ofc anything other than normal update that adds new thing(s). Major update is (technically) very big content pack that usually has something released along with it. But wheres the border? First 3 major updates are size of content packs. Smissmass 2018 added only 1 crate but despite this on page and Nav it shows up as major update. Blue moon pack added 1 crate, tweaked weapons and reworked competetive but is still listed as content pack. We need clear definition telling us when update is content pack or rather major update.
    Killicon hhg.pngFiatSeicentoKillicon hhg.png 21:09, 12 October 2019 (UTC)Fiat Seicento
Holiday may be in part a wiki construct; but, the Valve term is Holiday Restriction, as appears in the item descriptions. Valve has three Holiday Restrictions, "Winter Holiday", "TF Birthday", and "Halloween / Full Moon" (Valentine's Day doesn't count?). So, Valve identifies 3 + 13 annual Holidays, give or take. On this basis (specifically) I see no need to change Holiday.
Event: Valve additionally applies the term ""Scream Fortress event" to the collective Halloween activations, which over time have become much more than just activation of Holiday Restriction. But, practically, Valve uses "event" for any special time-limited variation in the game including community activities.
Campaigns are (were?) events with Contracts with premium buy-ins?
Halloween mode as a term is mainly a wiki construct. Essentially, the present content of the page is covered between Holiday#Halloween and Halloween event. IMO, the only reason to keep Halloween mode as a distinct page is to change it to an article devoted to tf_forced_holiday and expand it to cover all of the holiday settings.
Content Packs: I really don't know the history of the Content Packs section of Patches; I wonder if at one time these were all under Major Updates until Valve started calling certain content Patched "Packs" and "Content Packs".
Major Updates: It only thing that seems to be a distinction from Content Pack is that a "Major Update" was also (usually) an "Event", that is, there was something different and time-limited going on in the game OR there was some ARG, Storyline, or Update lead up (pages, announcements). It looks like the wiki calls it an "Update" if either Valve Calls it an Update or it is a Holiday content patch. "Event" activation aside, SFXI is a bigger, more major content update than either the Haunted Hallowe'en Special or the Pyro Update (if those two are "Major", then so is SFXI). (but Summer Event 2013 was an "Event"?)
Maybe a partial solution is to Move the Holiday Patches (because they sometimes minor but are always Events) into into Patches#Halloween, Patches#Winter Holiday, and maybe Patches#TF Birthday -- then no one will ever care again about whether they are "Major" or not.
M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk) (Help Wanted!) 17:26, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
I think that both "Major Updates" and "Content Packs" should be merged into one group just called "Updates". They may be major or not, they may be content packs or not, but in some regard, they are Updates, more than your regular "Patch". Maybe the name "Updates" could be something else, but I think we should consider merging them into something. User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 18:18, 13 October 2019 (UTC)