Difference between revisions of "Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion"

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== Imperial vs metric ==
 
  
I've noticed that a bunch of pages, it only mentions imperial. I think the standard should be metric, then imperial. On the English speed tables metric is excluded altogether, and I don't see a reason why. I've asked Tark to look at this but he didn't understand the table. Might be a minor topic, but this is what I think.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 09:12, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
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== Dark Mode ==
:I'd support the metric system over imperial anytime :> [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] [[User:VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">'''VasyaTheWizard'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">contributions</font>]])</sup>  16:05, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== Setting a standarized response to events of enormous importance? ==
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I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
  
Hi! '''Context''' - So, it's been a day since the now historical and infamous leak of source code for TF2 (the leaked code is from around late 2016 or early 2017), and as a consequence of it there has been a massive amount of rumors and misinformation regarding whether the live build of TF2 had its security compromised, specifically the remote code execution (RCE) exploit being possible (as we thought at the time). As it turns out, the RCE was false information (that we had learned about several hours later and didnt know at the time of adding/discussing banner) that was claimed by many people and we were alarmed by it, in response putting up a banner informing users of such possibility. In my overlook - it was a good decision, albeit it might be considered to be a rushed move.  
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:Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
<br> '''My questions''' here are two - '''1''' - How do we response in the future? Do we, for example, accept speculation that entails potential security exploits/risks as facts for sake of "Better safe than sorry", until we get an official word OR someone with an engine knowledge to do an "expertise" for us or do we simply stay quiet on the situation? We could alternatively word any banners in safe way so that we show we lack confirmation for any information, but we're putting a warning just in case?
 
<br> '''2''' - if it isnt a security-risk exploit, but an exploit or any other event of high importance (remember Crate depression of 2019?) do we also put up an informative banner? excuse poor formatting
 
<br>'''EDIT''': also forgot to mention that another factor is of course how severe the situation is and how much time should be taken to make a decision - in this instance of potential RCE, the decision had to be taken immediately given how dangerous it is/was.  - [[User:Goodjob|Goodjob]] ([[User talk:Goodjob|talk]])
 
  
== Discord vs IRC ==
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== Valve Store ==
  
So to settle this discussion, because it keeps popping up, we might as well make a discussion on it so we can point to other users.
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The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
I see no reason to step over, the only real thing that it has is a better UI that's less scary for new users. The support team for Discord is garbage, if you have a problem (E.g. someone posting illegal content or people starting a witch hunt) they just tell you to ignore the problem. I've reported both of the examples I gave, and got the response to block the user and/or leave the server. The situation we had with a user constantly coming back to harass us is one that wouldn't have been resolved as quickly as it had been on IRC. The only feature I can think of that would be more useful is an embed feature, which can also happen in a client. I find that Discord is less stable with servers, as there are the occasional outages that I have never experienced in IRC (Only time I get disconnected from IRC is when my own internet fucks up). Furthermore I think that Discord requiring a phone number to sign up now (If you don't have an account yet, you HAVE to include a phone number otherwise you can't get access) will limit access unnecessarily.
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:Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
TL;DR: Discord doesnt have any features I see needed, and it's just more of a hassle.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 17:58, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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== Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal ==
  
:I think we should move to Steam when Valve fixes the history auto-deletion bug (if that's really a bug, I dunno), it's kinda-like Discord but you don't need to register it, and most (if not all) users on the Wiki have Steam. What you said about Discord needing a phone number to register may not be true, I just entered on their website, clicked on Register and it haven't asked for a phone number (unless it's after I input an e-mail and password), unless that's a planned future "feature". Personally I don't like Discord, I only use it to talk with close friends, so it's most likely that I wouldn't enter the Wiki Server either, but that's just me. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:08, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL]. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes ([[Cotton Head]], [[Brotherhood of Arms]], etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): [https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT]. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: [https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG]. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
::After you create an account you go into the software and it tells you to put in a phone number with no way of removing it.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 20:10, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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:I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
:::I guess it's even worse like this since it doesn't ask prior to your registration (like how it "should" be, but honestly it shouldn't need to write a phone number to begin with). [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:14, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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== Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model ==
  
::::Also, I didn't mentioned, the only downside with Steam (other than the chat history deleting itself) is that Steam servers are very unstable. I've lost count how many times I had conversations interrupted with someone (on Direct Messages, not even on a Group) because of Steam servers. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:25, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the [[Soldier's Stash]], [[Horrible Horns]] on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin ([[Texas Half-Pants]], [[Millennial Mercenary]]'s Streaming 2Fort style, [[Exquisite Rack]], [[Battle Bob]]'s With Helmet style, [[Bacteria Blocker]]'s Headphones style, etc).
  
::::: Some of us can't access Steam or Discord at work. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 20:29, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on [[Decorated Veteran]] since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).
  
::::::Oh yeah, I forgot about that. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:56, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
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Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.
  
{{outdent|7}} '''Very Strong Oppose To Discord''' -- a platform constantly issuing false bans at random and worsening their software with every update is completely unreliable, not to mention the extra points Grampa put up.  I can expect there's a reason many wikis still use IRC.
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Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.
<br>I am '''neutral''' on Steam, it has a couple differences from Discord but is ultimately really similar in terms of features (and we can also guarantee a Steam account when the wiki is for a Steam game). I already own a Steam Chat containing several other people on the Wiki, so it would be easy to simply add more people as segue. However, Garbielwoj I should tell you that the message deletion is not a bug, as Steam is intended for regular conversations and not archives, you should not be holding out for a "fix". However, this would not be much of a downgrade as IRC does not archive either so we could continue logging to the website.
 
<br>Ultimately, I don't think there's any huge glaring problems with IRC. Sure, you can't post images and such, but it's easily workaround, we've been using it for years, and there's no glaring problems/micropurchases/proprietary other problems. In short: ''either Steam or IRC is fine with me at least''. [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 21:17, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 
  
: "IRC does not archive either" - IRC '''does''' log chat. It has since the start. However, I initially thought it archived everything. Upon checking, it seems you can only go about 3 years back in the archives at any time. The site won't load anything past a certain point in 2017, so for example you can still view [https://irc.biringa.com/channel/tfwiki/2017-05-01.html May 1st, 2017]'s logs. Unless this is just a technical issue with the site or something? I swear you used to be able to go back way more before. '''[[User:404UNF|404UNF]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404UNF|(talk)]]</sup> 00:47, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
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Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The [[Mann-Bird of Aberdeen]] looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like [[Team Captain]] for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: [https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0 https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0]). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
:: As Naleksuh said, logging is done by us, it's not an IRC feature. It should't be a problem if we ever decide to move to a better service.
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:I would support every page having both team colours.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
:: You can't see pre-2017 messages because the database got corrupted. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 04:42, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 
  
I agree with Naleksuh and Swood here, '''very strongly opposing Discord'''. It's a closed, proprietary platform that is extremely unreliable with its constant outages, the likes of which I have never experienced on IRC myself (could depend on the client's internet connection?). Somehow they manage to make it worse every update and it's already starting to look and feel Facebook-ish. At any point in time, they can decide to do literally anything to your accounts/servers (remember how it didn't use to require a phone number?), and you'd have no choice but to comply and bend over. What if they locked your account and started requiring photos of your ID? Not to mention their constant controversies - remember that youtuber guy getting banned for personal drama with a mod? Remember how they said that ''they don't consider pedophilia a violation of their ToS''? With just that alone I personally consider Discord a disgusting service to stay away from. A modern IRC client beats Discord in every aspect - it's free, open source, anonymous when necessary, decentralized, you can self-host servers, run your own custom clients, and you don't risk getting booted off the entire network because a mod disagrees with you or something.<br>/endrant, please excuse any strong language I used here. I promise I'm not Richard Stallman's alt account :> [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] [[User:VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">'''VasyaTheWizard'''</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|<font color="DB9C1F">contributions</font>]])</sup>  05:17, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
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== Articles for individual environmental hazards ==
:Pedophilia has been against their ToS since the start, but it was specifically furry cp (called "cub") that they would allow (Their staff is known for being almost all furries, the guy who responded saying that cub was fine had a furry pfp as well). That, in my opinion, is worse. Also to add to Discord's bugs: Sometimes sets already read messages to unread which is very annoying/confusing (Did Discord bug out again or did someone delete their message?), muting certain categories and collapsing them will randomly make them uncollapse and add a read message notifier. If we were to switch to Discord, I'd expect a lot more users because people join all kinds of Discord for stuff they might be interested in, this might lead to the server slowing down (If the Subnautica Discord announces anything in their announcement channel you can't see it because the channel won't load due to an overload of users trying to go there).<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 09:40, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== Changes to where SCM links should be  ==
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Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: [[Ghost]], [[Pumpkin bomb]], [[Saw blade]], and [[Train]].
  
Some cosmetic items can not be marketable in their unique form. (ie the [[Team Captain]]) Most of these do not have SCM links in their infoboxes. However, some items which can not be marketable in their unique (non killstreak) form (ie the [[Conscientious Objector]]) do have SCM links. Should all items that have a marketable quality have this, or only items that can be marketable in their base form? [[File:Item icon Salty Dog.png|link=Salty Dog{{if lang}}|40px|Salty Dog]][[User:InfernalShroom|<span><font color="850101"><b><big>InfernalShroom</big></b> </font></span>]][[User_talk:InfernalShroom|<span><font color="850101"><big><b>(Talk)</b></big></font></span>]] 03:29, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
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These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "''[Train horn noises]''". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the [[Environmental death]] article.
  
: We've added the market buy button just a while ago, so it's normal that some pages weren't updated yet (as we don't have many editors actively checking them). — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 04:28, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
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I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to [[Pitfall]].
  
== Source code on the wiki ==
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As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:
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* Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
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* Create a separate page for that (similar to the [[Item timeline]] pages).
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* Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).
  
With the recent source leak, how do we handle source code on the wiki? I've generally accepted it as being allowed as long as there is no link to download it and it's just a picture, but I don't know if there are any legal troubles with this. If we do allow it, how can we verify that it is real TF2 source code and not just something that looks like it quickly written?<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 08:46, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
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I am ok with [[Skeletons]] and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).
  
: The problems start and end when you redistribute code with a proprietary license. There's no trickery or technicality around it. I don't want Valve's lawyers putting their spiel on our talk page cause both them and us knows that would be the silliest thing. So avoid putting any of the code on the wiki, even if alleged, even if screenshot of monitor displaying screenshot. Thank you for bringing up question though. Probably needed addressing. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 18:42, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
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Opinions? - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
  
== Reverting image deletions ==
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:I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to [[List of game modes]], where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
  
I don't know if this is a bug or a limitation of MediaWiki, but I attempted to restore some deleted files (images), and it seems that these are not coming back (I checked the pages for it, and the images are not showing up), it only restored their page, but not the file... Looks like they were deleted forever: https://i.imgur.com/tEYLLvI.png
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:: I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by {{code|<nowiki>== Section title ==</nowiki>}}) would be a "complete" article.<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
<br>Looks like the only way we could get those images back are hoping for Google cache or WayBackMachine. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 
: I think it's because RJ recently did a purge of images. Pretty sure it deleted any images that could be rolled back I guess.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 19:36, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 
:: Well I managed to get the pictures back by visiting [https://dev.wiki.tf/wiki/Killstreak_Kit https://dev.wiki.tf/wiki/Killstreak_Kit], I didn't even knew dev.wiki.tf was a thing, I found out searching on Google for Killstreak Kit images, then I went to someone's UserPage on dev.wiki.tf and searched Killstreak Kit from there. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:00, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== Featured pages in other languages ==
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== A request ==
  
How featured pages work in languages other than english? Only english pages gets featured, but theres featured article section on every main page? Are we suppose to update local main pages to match same features article as english one? And even then, the featured page is sometimes outdated in different language. Do translated fetaured pages are also featured? I propose complete removal of featured page section on main pages other than english, and replacing it with something else. [[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]][[User:Fiat Seicento|FiatSeicento]][[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]] 09:36, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
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In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because [[Classic]] and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
  
:Dereko is not sure about "Do translated fetaured pages are also featured", however, it's possible to update them in [[Template:FeaturedArticle]] (for example, [[Template:FeaturedArticle/zh-hans]] ), and there is no need to remove them. Like you said, featured page is sometimes outdated in different language, you can keep an eye (by using watchlist) on it to keep updating, if you'd ilke to.
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:If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use <nowiki>{{ucfirst:<string>}}</nowiki> to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, <nowiki>{{ucfirst:hello world}}</nowiki> generates {{ucfirst:hello world}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
[[File:User Dereko Name.png|100px|link=User:Dereko]] 09:57, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== Change to [[Help:Style guide/Trivia|trivia guidelines]] ==
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::Could you help me with this? I've changed it in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
There's been multiple instances in the past where I've undone trivia which broke the "no speculation" guideline. Personally I think this guideline is a good guideline since it prevents false info, however I believe it needs some changes. I've undone trivia which I personally did see the connection with (See the [[Mercenary Park (map)|Mercenary Park]] fiasco. TL;DR: helicopter looks like a real-life one, but because no source I removed it). A change to include very obvious things or pointing out similarities with what something may be based off of (E.g. like the helicopter examples. Maybe include a <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> or similar notice) or just allowing them to be moved to a "notes" section would suffice. I personally wouldn't mind either or maybe both. I do think something should be done regarding this.
 
[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 19:28, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
: Note that loosening criteria for what qualifies as good trivia is a floodgate as it is. After a while it'll just end up being cloud watchers putting their favorite pet notion into the game. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 19:40, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
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:::Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{tl|lang}} template instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
  
::Loosening criteria for what qualifies as good trivia can't open a floodgate if you know what to let through. For example, before the eighteen RED and BLU UberCharged avatars were released by Valve (nine for each team respectively), two users ::on the FacePunch forum, Occlusion and Fearlezz, created a set of avatars very similar to what Valve would later release. Some things to keep in mind are:
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::::[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3408072&oldid=3388990 I already did it once and...] [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
  
::* For every Valve title that was given a set of avatars, Team Fortress 2 was the first to ever be given three avatar sets. Every other Valve title has only ever received one set of avatars (L4D being the exception with special infected avatars).
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:::::Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{tl|lang incomplete}}?<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
::* Before Valve even ever rolled out these avatars, Robin Walker was seen using one of the avatars created by Occlusion and Fearlezz.
 
  
::Do you think this was an intentional addition to the avatar pool to show Robin Walker's appreciation for the avatars created by Occlusion and Fearlezz? Or do you think this was all purely coincidental, and thusly, should be thrown out under
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::::::I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3584139&oldid=3583139 this edit]? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
::the tense that since Valve never made an official statement on the matter, it's all speculation and theory crafting?
 
::[[User:Synth|Synth]] ([[User talk:Synth|talk]]) 20:07, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
::: Synth: This thread is specific to adjustments of Trivia policy and process. I don’t intend to discuss unresolved examples here. '''''Any''''' removal of a contribution is a ''de facto'' <u>open invitation</u> to the contributor to discuss it on the remover’s talk page (unless the remover starts a discussion with you elsewhere). GrampaSwood’s talk page would be the place for your discussion or you may take this subject to my talk page and invite GrampaSwood.
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{{Outdent|6}}Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link <nowiki>[[VintageVintage]]</nowiki>.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
::: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 18:59, 9 May 2020 (UTC)  
 
  
: I think the common sore point in Trivia submissions and reversions is the question of speculation. "Guesses" and "conjecture" are rather easy to define, but the speculation is confusing to many; to both clueless posters and "subject experts" (generously speaking). The clueless posters really haven’t contributed anything, and their post may be reverted with ''gentle explanation'', but the contributions by subject experts (assuming notability and relevance) can be a positive contribution. The challenge is for the reviewing editors to figure out which is the case for each contribution. The clueless poster may rant about the revert, even with gentle explanation; that is the simple nature of the beast. The subject expert gets a different impression, especially those that are on only going to make one post ever on the subject of their joy, if not profession.  The subject expert is not going to understand how their practiced, maybe even professional, knowledge is speculation.  In short, the word "Speculation" in the edit summary alone is very insufficient in either situation. The noob will not know what speculation means (yet), and the expert will know they are not speculating. The clueless posters, ideally, should be led to an understanding of the wiki’s processes. But, IMO, the subject expert should be engaged to provide substantiation to the reviewer.  Moreover, if there is nothing in the edit summary (except "Speculation") or the OP’s talk page, there is no way for the patroller to know if there was any other collaboration.
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== Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history ==
  
: So, rather than suggesting loosening of the criteria, I suggest a ''focus on process''. The published "Removing trivia" guidance is rather binary, either keep or remove immediately. What if it ''might not'' be Trivia? Maybe it is not necessary to remove every non-Trivia (''almost'' Trivia) immediately? 
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I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. [[User:The American Boot|The American Boot]] ([[User talk:The American Boot|talk]]) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
  
: My Personal Trivia Patrol Practice is to first to assess the contribution for any virtue and either leave it in the Trivia if it is good and fitting or adapt it for inclusion elsewhere, collaborating with the OP if currently active. The present heading "Removing trivia" pretty much says that removal is the option, but I envision more of a Reacting to Trivia Posts toolkit, including the practices GrampaSwood suggests, or maybe a section or annex on how to "fix" a contribution that is missing substantiation.
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:If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed [[Help:Style_guide/Trivia|Trivia guild]].[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
:[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 18:49, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
: What with all the new stuff found in the source code leak (as well as some of the reslist leak stuff), I think the stance on speculatory content in general needs to be changed a tad to not be so anti-speculation. I try to refrain from getting ''too'' speculatory in some of the cut/experimental content articles I've been creating based on things in the source code, but sometimes all you have to go on is a single string (see [[Throwable weapons#Snowball]] for example) so in cases like that I feel like some speculation on intended functionality wouldn't really hurt provided it were properly labelled as such. Something like "The following information is purely speculatory based on the existing evidence we have at this point in time", just as an example. '''[[User:404UNF|404UNF]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404UNF|(talk)]]</sup> 01:44, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
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:I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The [[Art Pass Contest]] page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
  
:: Something found in the source is not speculation, but ''guessing why'' something is in the code ''is'' speculation, and unnecessary. We have places and style for Unused Content.  Speculation is not the only constraint to apply here. Candidate content for Trivia and Unused Content still must also be notable and ''generally'' interesting. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 12:53, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
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== Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts ==
  
::: I suppose this type of thing would be better suited for a more cut-content-focused wiki like TCRF instead of here. '''[[User:404UNF|404UNF]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404UNF|(talk)]]</sup> 03:58, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
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I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the [[Lollichop]], which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the [[Third Degree]] and [[Neon Annihilator]], which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the [[Cow Mangler 5000]], [[Scottish Resistance]], and [[Ullapool Caber]], which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the [[Vita-Saw]], which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.
  
== Wikipedia vs fandom ==
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I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.
  
If wikipedia can be used, but so can fandom. Which one is preferred? It's been changed on the [[Tsar Platinum]] and [[Starboard Crusader]] twice now, but I don't know which one is better to use. I personally prefer wikipedia, as fandoms might not be kept up-to-date.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 07:24, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
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Speaking of the [[Pyro taunts]] page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
: That and wikis maintained by and for a fandom have a tendency to start crawling up their own butt with fanfic at some point as the Silent Hill wiki's weird ass has proved on at least one occasion. Wikipedia is the one with citations and accuracy checked by people that care purely about those things for their own sake. If it were me I'd go with wikipedia unless the reference was so obscure it's not anywhere but fan wiki. Pretty much what I do anyway. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 23:37, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 
:: I would prefer to not have outbound links in the middle of the article besides to wikipedia (and even then there would ''ideally'' be some type of indicator), even if jojowiki.com is better than fandom, it should be treated like any other external link [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 07:06, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== Cut content update note question ==
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:I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
  
Regarding articles I've created for the Jungle Inferno weapon leaks such as [[Viewfinder]]; In the update notes where I've listed their removal from the game files, I've added a little "wink" of sorts with the addition of "''Oops.''" to the end of the note "'''[Undocumented]''' Files for the Viewfinder were removed from the game". as the files for these leaked weapons were pushed accidentally by Valve with the moving of many weapon models to their new {{code|models\workshop}} directory in the update. There was no actual patch note from Valve about the removal of these files to my knowledge so it is an undocumented change and I feel a little wink like this doesn't hurt but it's been contested I guess you can say, so I'd like to get some consensus on this. '''[[User:404UNF|404UNF]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404UNF|(talk)]]</sup> 07:29, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
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== Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization ==
  
* {{c|-|remove}} "''Oops''" is absolutely non-encyclopedic editorial commentary, and possibly a bit speculative. It should be left to Valve to say that. I try to hide such in comments or talk. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="db9c1f">''' M I K A D O 282 '''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="00ff00"> <small>⊙</small>⊙⊙⊙⊙<small>⊙ ⊙⊙  ⊙⊙</small></font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 12:27, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
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'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
:* {{c|-|remove}} Pretty much what Mikado said here. I also doubt that many readers will be able to understand the allusion, and as already stated it is non-encyclopedic commentary and adds no value whatsoever. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 20:47, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 
::* {{c|-|remove}} I'm usually pretty positive when it comes for suggestions and such, but I have to agree with the others here. I'm fine with a patch stating that the unused content was removed, however the "Oops" is not necessary, in a way, it ends up being an opinion from someone who has written on the article/item itself, however most readers doesn't associate individual users on articles, so most will probably think that it's an opinion by the Wiki editors as a whole, I think... [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:59, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 
::: {{c|-|remove}} [[User:Naleksuh|Naleksuh]] ([[User talk:Naleksuh|talk]]) 22:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== <nowiki>{{achievement name}}</nowiki> template? ==
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:See [[Template:Dictionary/common_strings#.5BMain_Page.5D_Smissmas_2023|Dictionary common strings]].<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
  
The game has 520 achievements. How about an <code><nowiki>{{achievement name}}</nowiki></code> template to easily translate an achievement's name on a page instead of having to go through files and pages to find the localized names? - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 23:08, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
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:: Thanks. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
  
== Speed table changes ==
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== Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work ==
  
Can we please change the speed table to be a more normal template? For some reason it's very confusing and uses maths to calculate the speeds (At least, that's what it seems like). And uses imperial on the English page exclusively. This makes it very hard to add anything new or change it. Can this template just be changed to something like the {{tl|Class health pack and overheal table}}? It's much easier to add something.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 19:18, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
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[[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_Wiki:Wiki_Birthday#Official.E2.84.A2_Team_Fortress_Energy_Drink]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]]''' ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Nonolemage|contribs]]) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC</small>
:Not completely unrelated, but, speaking of speeds... I made this topic on [[Talk:Medic#Medic.27s_speed]]. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 22:22, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
 
  
== Deleting Account ==
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:Please sign your messages using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
 +
:The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
  
Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but is there a way to delete my account? Thanks. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by [redacted]''</small>
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== Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc ==
  
: Unfortunately we can't delete accounts, but I can rename it to something like "DeletedUser####". — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 22:31, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
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Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:
  
:: That will be fine. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by [redacted]''</small>
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<hr>
  
::: {{c|done}}. No need to reply. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 22:48, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
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1) Implement a way on the {{code|Item infobox}} template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:
  
== Someone did something ==
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a) The Heavy variant of the [[Team Captain]] only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: [https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z]. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.
  
'| item-level =' shows now in infobox, instaed of only item type and level. Looks like it happens on every page: [[Bushwacka]], [[Familiar Fez]], [[Pool Party]]. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|<font color="DB9C1F">Denied</font>]] [[User talk:Denied|<font color="DB9C1F">(Talk)</font>]] 06:35, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
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b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of [[Close Quarters Cover]], include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: [https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME].
  
: {{c|done|&nbsp;}} Should be fixed. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 06:50, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
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c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the [[Dead Little Buddy]] have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: [https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO].
  
== Double name of item type ==
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d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the [[Jumper's Jeepcap]] would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like [[Mustachioed Mann]], would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like [[Carl]] that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.
  
Was it intentional? Now it looks like in game, rather than how it looks on SCM. In-game version looks like it wasn't something intentional, but rather a limitation after system with graded cosmetics was intruduced. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|<font color="DB9C1F">Denied</font>]] [[User talk:Denied|<font color="DB9C1F">(Talk)</font>]] 16:18, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
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<hr>
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2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): [https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP]. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.
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3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: [https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo]
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4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Boarder%27s_Beanie&oldid=3594086 this page]). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]
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a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.
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5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, [[Main Cast]] would look like this: [https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs].
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6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like [[Dead of Night]] wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.
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'''Edit:''' Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Robot_Chicken_Hat&oldid=1679218 looked like this]. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.
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 +
I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538] (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.
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7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, [[Brawling Buccaneer]] would have its Painted variants table from <nowiki>{{Painted variants}}</nowiki> to <nowiki>{{Painted variants full}}</nowiki>, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.
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8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as [[Manndatory Attire]], [[Beaten and Bruised]] and [[Boarder's Beanie‎]]), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6 https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6]
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<hr>
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'''Edit: ''' 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. [[Manndatory Attire]] has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.
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a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.
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 +
b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like [[Onimann]] mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.
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Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
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:1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
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:2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
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:4/5. I like this.
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:6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{tl|Tabs}} template for it.
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:7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
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:8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{tl|Tabs}}.
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:9. See answer on 1.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
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::1 {{c|+|Agree}} - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
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::2 / 3 {{c|?|Not sure / changes}} - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
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::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - This also looks nice.
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::5 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.
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::6 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
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::7 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
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::8 {{c|+|Agree / changes}} - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
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::9 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.
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::[[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Speech typing.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] [[File:Photo Badge Decal Example.png|15px|link=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:ListFiles?limit=25&user=Andrew360&ilshowall=0]] 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
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:::1 {{c|-|Disagree}} - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
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:::2 {{c|+|Agree}} - Good idea!
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:::3 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
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:::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - Yes.
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:::5 {{c|+|Agree}} - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
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:::6 {{c|+|Agree}} - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
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:::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - Same with Andrew360
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:::8 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{tl|Tabs}}?
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:::9 {{c|?|Disagree.. or Sorta Agree}} - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
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:::[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
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::::1 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
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::::2 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I wanna see how it would look first.
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::::3 {{c|+|Agree}} - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
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::::4 {{c|+|Strongly agree}} - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
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::::5 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I like the idea, but it will take a '''lot''' of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
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::::6 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Same answer as 5.
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::::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
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::::8 {{c|-|Somewhat disagree}} - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
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::::9 {{c|-|Strongly disagree}} - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
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::::[[User:ShadowMan44|ShadowMan44]] ([[User talk:ShadowMan44|talk]]) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
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:::::So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.
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:::::However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.
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:::::GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.
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:::::GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the [[Boarder's Beanie]] paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.
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:::::My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.
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:::::ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.
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:::::Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something [[Liquor Locker]], [[Pocket-Medes]], etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.
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:::::Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like [[Manndatory Attire]] and [[Boarder's Beanie]] wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?
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:::::ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the [[Dead of Night]] and [[Pocket-Medes]]. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
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::::::So [[User:Tekinz|Tekinz]] and [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:
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::::::Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.
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::::::mgpt:
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 4. You got my vote, very good;
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::::::{{c|-|Disagree}} 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;
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::::::{{c|Info}} 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in [[Brigade Helm]]? If so, I don't see a problem;
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::::::{{c|Info}} 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? [https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C] Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;
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::::::{{c|Info}} 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of [[Beaten and Bruised]], the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;
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::::::{{c|Info}} I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
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:::::::I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:
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:::::::7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of [[Stout Shako]];
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:::::::7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. '''Post-thoughts:''' After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.
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:::::::8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the [[Boarder's Beanie]] images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.
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:::::::9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
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{{Outdent|7}} 1 {{c|?|Not sure}} It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.<br>
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2/3 {{c|+|Agree}} It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!<br>
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4 {{c|+|Agree}} Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)<br>
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5 {{c|-|Disagree}} On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.<br>
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6 {{c|?|Not sure}} I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.<br>
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7 {{c|?|Not sure}} I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.<br>
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8 {{c|+|Agree}} I agree with the others on this point, {{tl|Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.<br>
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9 {{c|-|Disagree}} See #8<br>
 +
[[User:H20verdrive|H20verdrive]] ([[User talk:H20verdrive|talk]]) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:
 +
:1. {{c|+|Agree}} Very good stuff.
 +
:2. {{c|?|Abstain}} Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.
 +
:3. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.
 +
:4. {{c|+|Agree}} Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.
 +
:5. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} Seems alright.
 +
:6. {{c|?|Abstain}} It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.
 +
:7. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.
 +
:8. {{c|+|Agree}} Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.
 +
:9. {{c|-|Weak Disagree}} As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.
 +
:Overall, if I had to give a vote for the ''whole package'', {{c|+|Agree, with tweaking}}.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:
 +
{| class="wikitable"
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 1 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''7''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 2 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''7''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 3 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''9''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 4 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''10''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''0'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 5 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''4''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''4''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 6 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''4''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}:  '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''4'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 7 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''8''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 8 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''8''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 9 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''2''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''3''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''4'''
 +
|}
 +
My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Userbox, and creator page ==
 +
 
 +
Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:For userboxes see [[Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes]]. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{tl|User infobox}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::[[Help:Images]] may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using [[Special:Upload|the upload page]]. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include <nowiki>[[Category:User images]]</nowiki> in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.
 +
 
 +
:::As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::::Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Civilian Image ==
 +
 
 +
Should we change the image of the [[Civilian]] ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, [[Civilian (Classic)]] is the TFC version.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Weapon in user page ==
 +
 
 +
Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:Well, you could try learning how to use [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Table wikitables], there are also templates like [[Template:Backpack item]] and [[Template:User weapon checklist]] you could use to this effect.<br><span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Allweapons Nav template ==
 +
 
 +
Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current [[Template:Allweapons Nav|Allweapons Nav]] template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on [[User:Mgpt/Sandbox#Test|my sandbox user page]] ('''Nav 1''' and '''Nav 2'''). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in '''Nav 2''' appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:: Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::::I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
{{outdent|5}} Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.
 +
 
 +
Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."
 +
* That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
 +
* It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
: I made some changes, thanks for the input [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:: Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make ''as much'' sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::: I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::: Updated the template [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== About the 2023 leak ==
 +
 
 +
Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the [[Team Fortress Wiki:Policies#Leaked content|leaked content policy]]. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::::I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== [[Template:Community Medal Nav|Community Medal Nav]] (closed) ==
 +
 
 +
I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{tl|Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:: Would adding an [https://i.imgur.com/XeBjHCT.png 'Other' section with two links] for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "[[Template:Competitive Nav|Competitive play]]" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?
 +
:: Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::: I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::::: Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not ''exactly'' the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what ''I'' wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then ''that's'' wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::::: They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely. <br>[[User:Cheddar|Cheddar]] ([[User talk:Cheddar|talk]]) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
{{outdent|7}}
 +
By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.<br>
 +
I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.<br>
 +
Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:: So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes  "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.
 +
 
 +
:: I ''would'' fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::: ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{tl|Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::: That didn't ''matter'' when some of those event pages, for '''years''', had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a ''new'' nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.
 +
 
 +
:::: Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::: closed given the recent discussion [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Trivias without confirmations ==
 +
 
 +
Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::What about [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Crafty_Hair#Trivia this one]? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia [[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::::Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. [[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::::::Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data ==
 +
 
 +
It seems like a very [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Reports/Untranslated_templates/fr|handy feature]] (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?<br>
 +
I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe [[User:Darkid|Darkid]]?<br>
 +
Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:For the [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Template:Overheal_tool first result] it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. [[User:Jh34ghu43gu|Jh34ghu43gu]] ([[User talk:Jh34ghu43gu|talk]]) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
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::I can take a look, thanks for the ping. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.
 +
:::I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
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::::Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
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:::::+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== A technical request for "Used by" template ==
 +
 
 +
"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "<nowiki>{{Used by|all}}</nowiki>" and "<nowiki>{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}</nowiki>" sound fine, but "<nowiki>{{Used by|all-except|</nowiki>" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "<nowiki>{{Used by|all-except|</nowiki>"):
 +
:Scout = Skauta
 +
:Soldier = Żołnierza
 +
:Pyro = Pyro
 +
:Demoman = Demomana
 +
:Heavy = Grubego
 +
:Enginner = Inżyniera
 +
:Medic = Medyka
 +
:Sniper = Snajpera
 +
:Spy = Szpiega
 +
[[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
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 +
:These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
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::Thanks. I've moved it there. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
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 +
== Where can I interact with the community? ==
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 +
Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.
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 +
[[User:QS Quark|QS Quark]] ([[User talk:QS Quark|talk]]) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
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:You can join the [[IRC]] if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 13:59, 23 March 2024


Dark Mode

I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Valve Store

The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal

Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the Robot Chicken Hat page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes (Cotton Head, Brotherhood of Arms, etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model

Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the Soldier's Stash, Horrible Horns on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin (Texas Half-Pants, Millennial Mercenary's Streaming 2Fort style, Exquisite Rack, Battle Bob's With Helmet style, Bacteria Blocker's Headphones style, etc).

Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on Decorated Veteran since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).

Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.

Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.

Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The Mann-Bird of Aberdeen looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like Team Captain for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I would support every page having both team colours.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Articles for individual environmental hazards

Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: Ghost, Pumpkin bomb, Saw blade, and Train.

These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "[Train horn noises]". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the Environmental death article.

I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to Pitfall.

As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:

  • Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
  • Create a separate page for that (similar to the Item timeline pages).
  • Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).

I am ok with Skeletons and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).

Opinions? - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to List of game modes, where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by == Section title ==) would be a "complete" article.
Tiagoquix (talk) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

A request

In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because Classic and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use {{ucfirst:<string>}} to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, {{ucfirst:hello world}} generates Hello world.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Could you help me with this? I've changed it in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{lang}} template instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
I already did it once and... User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{lang incomplete}}?
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with this edit? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link [[VintageVintage]].
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history

I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. The American Boot (talk) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed Trivia guild.Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard (talk) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The Art Pass Contest page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts

I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the Lollichop, which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the Third Degree and Neon Annihilator, which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the Cow Mangler 5000, Scottish Resistance, and Ullapool Caber, which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the Vita-Saw, which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.

I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.

Speaking of the Pyro taunts page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization

'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

See Dictionary common strings.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work

[[1]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nonolemage (talk) • (contribs) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC

Please sign your messages using ~~~~.
The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc

Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:


1) Implement a way on the Item infobox template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:

a) The Heavy variant of the Team Captain only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.

b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of Close Quarters Cover, include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME.

c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the Dead Little Buddy have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO.

d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the Jumper's Jeepcap would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like Mustachioed Mann, would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like Carl that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.


2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.


3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo


4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see this page). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK

a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.


5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, Main Cast would look like this: https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs.


6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the Robot Chicken Hat page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like Dead of Night wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.

Edit: Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally looked like this. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.

I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.


7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, Brawling Buccaneer would have its Painted variants table from {{Painted variants}} to {{Painted variants full}}, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.


8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as Manndatory Attire, Beaten and Bruised and Boarder's Beanie‎), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6


Edit: 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. Manndatory Attire has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.

a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.

b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like Onimann mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.


Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
4/5. I like this.
6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{Tabs}} template for it.
7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{Tabs}}.
9. See answer on 1.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram plus.png Agree - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
2 / 3 Pictogram question.png Not sure / changes - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree - This also looks nice.
5 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.
6 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
7 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
8 Pictogram plus.png Agree / changes - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
9 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.
Andrew360 Edit icon.png Speech typing.png Photo Badge Decal Example.png 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
2 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Good idea!
3 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Yes.
5 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
6 Pictogram plus.png Agree - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
7 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Same with Andrew360
8 Pictogram question.png Not sure - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{Tabs}}?
9 Pictogram question.png Disagree.. or Sorta Agree - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard (talk) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
2 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I wanna see how it would look first.
3 Pictogram plus.png Agree - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
4 Pictogram plus.png Strongly agree - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
5 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I like the idea, but it will take a lot of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
6 Pictogram question.png Not sure - Same answer as 5.
7 Pictogram plus.png Agree - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
8 Pictogram minus.png Somewhat disagree - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
9 Pictogram minus.png Strongly disagree - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
ShadowMan44 (talk) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.
However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.
GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.
GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the Boarder's Beanie paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.
My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.
ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.
Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something Liquor Locker, Pocket-Medes, etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.
Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like Manndatory Attire and Boarder's Beanie wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?
ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the Dead of Night and Pocket-Medes. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
So Tekinz and Mgpt talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:
Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.
mgpt:
Pictogram plus.png Agree 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";
Pictogram plus.png Agree 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 4. You got my vote, very good;
Pictogram minus.png Disagree 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;
Pictogram info.png Info 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in Brigade Helm? If so, I don't see a problem;
Pictogram info.png Info 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;
Pictogram info.png Info 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of Beaten and Bruised, the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;
Pictogram info.png Info I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:
7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of Stout Shako;
7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. Post-thoughts: After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.
8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the Boarder's Beanie images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.
9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 Pictogram question.png Not sure It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.
2/3 Pictogram plus.png Agree It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)
5 Pictogram minus.png Disagree On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.
6 Pictogram question.png Not sure I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.
7 Pictogram question.png Not sure I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.
8 Pictogram plus.png Agree I agree with the others on this point, {{Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.
9 Pictogram minus.png Disagree See #8
H20verdrive (talk) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:
1. Pictogram plus.png Agree Very good stuff.
2. Pictogram question.png Abstain Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.
3. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.
4. Pictogram plus.png Agree Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.
5. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree Seems alright.
6. Pictogram question.png Abstain It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.
7. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.
8. Pictogram plus.png Agree Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.
9. Pictogram minus.png Weak Disagree As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.
Overall, if I had to give a vote for the whole package, Pictogram plus.png Agree, with tweaking.--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:
Suggestion 1 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 7 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 2 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 7 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 3 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 9 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 4 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 10 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 0
Suggestion 5 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 4 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 4 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 6 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 4 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 4
Suggestion 7 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 8 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 8 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 8 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 9 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 2 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 3 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 4

My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Userbox, and creator page

Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? Nonolemage (talk) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

For userboxes see Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{User infobox}}.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Help:Images may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using the upload page. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include [[Category:User images]] in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.
As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! Nonolemage (talk) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Civilian Image

Should we change the image of the Civilian ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found Nonolemage (talk) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, Civilian (Classic) is the TFC version.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Weapon in user page

Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? Nonolemage (talk) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, you could try learning how to use wikitables, there are also templates like Template:Backpack item and Template:User weapon checklist you could use to this effect.
Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Allweapons Nav template

Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current Allweapons Nav template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on my sandbox user page (Nav 1 and Nav 2). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! Mgpt (talk) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences Mgpt (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. Mgpt (talk) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.

Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."

  • That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
  • It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
I made some changes, thanks for the input Mgpt (talk) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make as much sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... Mgpt (talk) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Updated the template Mgpt (talk) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

About the 2023 leak

Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) Nonolemage (talk) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the leaked content policy. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) Nonolemage (talk) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! Nonolemage (talk) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Community Medal Nav (closed)

I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance Mgpt (talk) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Would adding an 'Other' section with two links for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "Competitive play" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?
Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion Mgpt (talk) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). — Tark 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not exactly the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what I wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then that's wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely.
Cheddar (talk) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.
I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.
Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. — Tark 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.
I would fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. Mgpt (talk) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
That didn't matter when some of those event pages, for years, had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a new nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.
Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
closed given the recent discussion Mgpt (talk) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Trivias without confirmations

Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
What about this one? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data

It seems like a very handy feature (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?
I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe Darkid?
Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

For the first result it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. Jh34ghu43gu (talk) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
I can take a look, thanks for the ping. Darkid « TalkContribs » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.
I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. Darkid « TalkContribs » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

A technical request for "Used by" template

"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "{{Used by|all}}" and "{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}" sound fine, but "{{Used by|all-except|" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "{{Used by|all-except|"):

Scout = Skauta
Soldier = Żołnierza
Pyro = Pyro
Demoman = Demomana
Heavy = Grubego
Enginner = Inżyniera
Medic = Medyka
Sniper = Snajpera
Spy = Szpiega

User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. I've moved it there. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Where can I interact with the community?

Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.

QS Quark (talk) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

You can join the IRC if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)