Difference between revisions of "User:Denied/Weapon balance ideas Pyro"

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m (Detonator)
m (Manmelter: With this weapon I think any changes are good)
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== [[Manmelter]] ==
 
== [[Manmelter]] ==
 +
'''Bugs reported on the Wiki'''
 +
* When this weapon's projectile is reflected, it is reflected as a flare.
 +
* The critical hits counter does not show when the active weapon is not the Manmelter.
 +
* Firing at least one time will cause the weapon to not fully go back to its resting position.
 +
* While holding down alt-fire after having saved up charges, trying to fire while still holding alt-fire instantly depletes the Manmelter of all its saved charges, and the crits counter is reset to 0. The weapon does not actually fire anything while this happens.
 +
* Occasionally the ash-suck particle effect may not appear.
 +
* If a friendly Pyro is inflicted by afterburn from the Gas Passer, and the Pyro extinguishes the friendly Pyro, they will recieve points and health, but not a stored critical.
 +
{|
 +
|{{Backpack item
 +
| width = 240px
 +
| item-name = Manmelter
 +
| quality = unique
 +
| item-kind = Indivisible Particle Smasher
 +
| item-level = 1
 +
  | item-description = This weapon will reload automatically when not active.
 +
  | att-1-positive  = Does not require ammo
 +
  | att-2-positive  = Projectile penetrates enemies
 +
  | att-3-positive  = Projectile cannot be deflected
 +
  | att-4-positive  = Alt-Fire: Extinguish teammate to gain guaranteed critical hit and restore 20 health
 +
  | att-5-negative  = -80% damage to buildings
 +
}}
 +
Concept #1
 +
* {{c|+|Added:}} Projectile penetrates enemies
 +
* {{c|+|Added:}} Projectile cannot be deflected
 +
* {{c|-|Removed:}} +50% projectile speed
 +
* {{c|-|Added:}} -80% damage to buildings
 +
* {{c|=|Changed:}} Updated item attributes to better explain functionality of the weapon
 +
** A weapon that doesn't know yet what it wants to be. Ability to shoot non deflectable, penetrating projectiles being able to critical hit multiple targets in a straight line would be an original design for this weapon.
 +
 +
|{{Backpack item
 +
| width = 240px
 +
| item-name = Manmelter
 +
| quality = unique
 +
| item-kind = Indivisible Particle Smasher
 +
| item-level = 1
 +
  | item-description = This weapon will reload automatically when not active.
 +
  | att-1-positive  = Does not require ammo
 +
  | att-2-positive  = Projectile penetrates enemies
 +
  | att-3-positive  = Projectile cannot be deflected
 +
  | att-4-positive  = Alt-Fire: Extinguish teammate to gain guaranteed mini-crit and restore 20 health
 +
  | att-5-negative  = -15% damage penalty for each penetrated enemy
 +
  | att-6-negative  = -80% damage to buildings
 +
}}
 +
Concept #2
 +
* {{c|+|Added:}} Projectile penetrates enemies
 +
* {{c|+|Added:}} Projectile cannot be deflected
 +
* {{c|-|Removed:}} +50% projectile speed
 +
* {{c|-|Added:}} -80% damage to buildings
 +
* {{c|-|Added:}} -15% damage penalty for each penetrated enemy
 +
* {{c|-|Changed:}} Alt-Fire: Extinguish teammate to gain guaranteed mini-crit and restore 20 health
 +
* {{c|=|Changed:}} Now the projectile works the same way as Righteous Bison's projectiles (the projectile might look like on this [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/File:Early_Manmelter_particle_effects.jpg concept art])
 +
* {{c|=|Changed:}} Updated item attributes to better explain functionality of the weapon
 +
** A weapon that doesn't know yet what it wants to be. Ability to shoot non deflectable, penetrating projectiles being able to mini-crit multiple targets in a straight line would be an original design for this weapon.
 +
** As the projectile would work as Bison's projectile, to balance penetrating multiple enemies in a row, also here -15% damage penalty for each penetrated enemy might be needed.
 +
|}
  
 
== [[Scorch Shot]] ==
 
== [[Scorch Shot]] ==

Revision as of 18:23, 16 January 2020

Weapon balance ideas for the Pyro

Some stats are based on After Breakfast's suggestions and suggestions from the community.

In my thought random crits would be disabled on official servers; same as random bullet spread (bloom).

Also any descriptions were removed to make more space for important informations, like attributes and descriptions that are explaining functionality of the weapon.

Primary

Flame Thrower

  • No changes.

Bugs reported on the Wiki

  • The Flame Thrower's Medi Gun heal and resist reduction is not actually 20% as stated in the patch notes.
    • Healing is reduced by 50% with any Medi Guns, and by 100%/100%/75% with level 1/2/3 Dispensers, respectively.
    • The resistance reduction applies only to the Vaccinator's Übercharge and does not apply to the Vaccinator's passive resistance.
  • As of the Blue Moon update, the flamethrower has the following bugs.
    • At point blank range, Damage ramp-up has the tendency to reset to minimum.
    • At point blank range, the hit box shrinks drastically, roughly 50% of the normal hitbox.
    • Players next to walls will "Lock" old particles within their model until the player dies, this results in the locked flamethrower particle dictating all damage of subsequent particles.
    • Once any particle misses the target, the flamethrowers rampup will immediately reset to minimum

Backburner

Backpack Backburner.png
 Backburner 
Level 1 Flame Thrower
100% critical hits from behind
Extinguishing a teammate restores 20 health
+100% airblast cost
 
Alt-Fire: Release a blast of air that pushes enemies and projectiles and extinguish teammates that are on fire.

Afterburn reduces Medi Gun healing and resist shield effects.
  • Pictogram plus.png Changed: Increased the angle that registers critical hits from behind from 90 to 180 degrees (same as Spy's backstabs)
  • Pictogram plus.png Changed: Reduced cost of airblast from +150% to +100%
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: Updated item attribute and description to better explain functionality of the weapon
    • Critical hit registration almost never works, due to very low angle. Increasing it to Spy's backstabs angle should fix this problem.
    • Reducing the cost of airblast would allow the Pyro to use it 5 times, instead of 4. Quick usage of ammo by the flamethrower doesn't combine with very high ammo cost to use airblast.

Degreaser

Backpack Degreaser.png
 Degreaser 
Level 1 Flame Thrower
+50% deploy time
+50% holster time
Extinguishing a teammate restores 20 health
+50% airblast cost
-66% afterburn damage penalty
-10/20% damage penalty
 
Alt-Fire: Release a blast of air that pushes enemies and projectiles and extinguish teammates that are on fire.

Afterburn reduces Medi Gun healing and resist shield effects.

Concept #1

  • Pictogram plus.png Changed: Holster time from +30% to +50%
  • Pictogram minus.png Changed: Airblast cost from +25% to +50%
  • Pictogram minus.png Changed: Deploy time from +60% to +50%
  • Pictogram minus.png Added: -10/20% damage penalty
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: Updated item attributes and description to better explain functionality of the weapon
    • With Reserve Shooter no longer being able to mini-crit targets launched into air by compression blast, deploy and holster time could be align to the same value to be easier to time and use combos.
    • With -66% afterburn damage penalty, an additional -10/20% damage penalty would be more fitting to be sure that the weapon will be used for combos, and not direct fire damage.
    • -25% airblast cost doesn't mean anything, as the wearer doesn't need that much ammo to launch enemies into air. If the penalty is supposed to mean something, it should be at atleast +50% (from 25 to 30 ammo per compresion blast).
Backpack Degreaser.png
 Degreaser 
Level 1 Flame Thrower
+50% deploy time
+50% holster time
Extinguishing a teammate restores 20 health
-66% afterburn damage penalty
-10/20% damage penalty
 
Alt-Fire: Release a blast of air that pushes enemies and projectiles and extinguish teammates that are on fire.

Afterburn reduces Medi Gun healing and resist shield effects.

Concept #2

  • Pictogram plus.png Changed: Holster time from +30% to +50%
  • Pictogram plus.png Removed: +25% airblast cost
  • Pictogram minus.png Changed: Deploy time from +60% to +50%
  • Pictogram minus.png Added: -10/20% damage penalty
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: Updated item attributes and description to better explain functionality of the weapon
    • With Reserve Shooter no longer being able to mini-crit targets launched into air by compression blast, deploy and holster time could be align to the same value to be easier to time and use combos.
    • With -66% afterburn damage penalty, an additional -10/20% damage penalty would be more fitting to be sure that the weapon will be used for combos, and not direct fire damage.

Phlogistinator

Bugs reported on the Wiki

  • Occasionally after activating 'Mmmph', the charged particle effect may remain on the muzzle of the weapon. This can be easily fixed by switching to another weapon and then back again. (Fixed with the following changes.)
  • After activating 'Mmmph' followed by switching class, the 'Mmmph' glowing particle effect will be present when taunting. (Fixed with the following changes.)
  • 'Mmmph' gained is not reduced to reflect Damage Resistance. For example, hitting a Spy protected by the Dead Ringer will enable the Pyro to fill his 'Mmmph' gauge, despite the Spy not having enough health to do so normally.
  • In some cases, fire particles will still be in the air while activating 'Mmmph' will also be crit-boosted. (Fixed with the following changes.)
  • If 'Mmmph' is activated and the round changes, the effect will continue until the 'Mmmph' bar is depleted. (Fixed with the following changes.)
  • If the player is switched to the enemy team when the rounds end with a full 'Mmmph', the charged particle effect in client view will still be the old team's color. (Fixed with the following changes.)
  • Using an Action slot taunt with a full 'Mmmph' will cause the charge particle effect to disappear. (Fixed with the following changes.)
  • If the player activates 'Mmmph' with this weapon, and then switches to another primary weapon via Resupply or another method, the new weapon will retain the remaining crit-boost gained from 'Mmmph'. (Fixed with the following changes.)
  • If the Pyro activates 'Mmmph' and receives any sort of knockback (such as explosions or Airblast from an enemy Pyro), the taunt will be interrupted, but not its invulnerability. This is because the invulnerable effect is set by number of seconds, as opposed to when the taunt finishes. (Fixed with the following changes.)
Backpack Phlogistinator.png
 Phlogistinator 
Level 1 Flame Thrower
Alt-Fire: Uses 30 ammo to destroy projectiles
Build 'Mmmph' by dealing damage
Alt-Fire on full 'Mmmph': Taunt to gain 50% of base health
-10/15% damage penalty

Concept #1

  • Pictogram plus.png Added: Alt-Fire: Uses 30 ammo to destroy projectiles
  • Pictogram plus.png Removed: No airblast
  • Pictogram plus.png Changed: 'Mmmph' meter can now be build with any damage dealt, not only from fire
  • Pictogram minus.png Removed: Alt-Fire on full 'Mmmph': Taunt to gain crit for several seconds
  • Pictogram minus.png Removed: Invulnerable while 'Mmmph' taunting
  • Pictogram minus.png Added: -10/15% damage penalty
    • Not being able to use compression blast is a massive downside, that moves the Pyro back to 2007. Ability to destroy projectiles instead of deflecting them would be more useful than W + M1 with crits tactics.
    • Alt fire destroying projectiles would work the same way as pre Blue Moon update Short Circuit.
    • Destroying projectiles is still weaker compared to sending them mini-crit boosted back to enemies. Changing 'Mmmph' from crit boost to healing for the Pyro would be more benefit for the wearer in dangerous situations, ambushes or without any heal sources near them. It would work the same way as healing in Half-Zatoichi.
Backpack Phlogistinator.png
 Phlogistinator 
Level 1 Flame Thrower
Does not require ammo
Alt-Fire: Destroy projectiles
Build 'Mmmph' by dealing damage
Alt-Fire on full 'Mmmph': Taunt to gain 50% of base health
Constant fire overheats the weapon after 6 seconds
Alt-Fire has 2/3 seconds cooldown after every use

Concept #2

  • Pictogram plus.png Added: Does not require ammo
  • Pictogram plus.png Added: Alt-Fire: Destroy projectiles
  • Pictogram plus.png Removed: No airblast
  • Pictogram plus.png Changed: Alt-Fire on full 'Mmmph': Taunt to gain 50% of base health
  • Pictogram plus.png Changed: 'Mmmph' meter can now be build with any damage dealt, not only from fire
  • Pictogram minus.png Removed: Alt-Fire on full 'Mmmph': Taunt to gain crit for several seconds
  • Pictogram minus.png Removed: Invulnerable while 'Mmmph' taunting
  • Pictogram minus.png Added: Alt-Fire has 2/3 seconds cooldown after every use
  • Pictogram minus.png Added: -10/15% damage penalty
    • Not being able to use compression blast is a massive downside, that moves the Pyro back to 2007. Ability to destroy projectiles instead of deflecting them would be more useful than W + M1 with crits tactics.
    • Alt fire destroying projectiles would work the same way as pre Blue Moon update Short Circuit.
    • Destroying projectiles is still weaker compared to sending them mini-crit boosted back to enemies. Changing 'Mmmph' from crit boost to healing for the Pyro would be more benefit for the wearer in dangerous situations, ambushes or without any heal sources near them. It would work the same way as healing in Half-Zatoichi.
    • Second design with infinite ammo, but with reduced non stop fire and slower Alt-Fire.

Dragon's Fury

Bugs reported on the Wiki

  • The Dragon's Fury can potentially lag or freeze the player using it for a second while firing.
  • The projectile can go through thin walls such as setup gates when fired at a correct angle.
  • The attribute Deals 300% damage to burning players is incorrect; the bonus damage also applies to buildings and other non-player targets. In reality it is likely that the bonus damage is really the base damage of the weapon, and that hits against non burning players is reduced.
  • Rarely, the fireball may appear to hit an enemy, but not deliver damage.
  • Dragon Slayer skins of the weapon will not be sorted by Quality, as it is an Elite Grade weapon and is sorted by Decorated quality.
  • The Festivized variant's icon is team-colored (red icon on RED, blue icon on BLU) instead of being a single color.
  • The fireball projectile can become harmless by colliding with certain projectiles. Specifically rockets, needles, Huntsman arrows, Rescue Ranger bolts, flares, and the Fireball spell.
Backpack Dragon's Fury.png
 Dragon's Fury 
Level 1 Flame Launcher
Uses a shared pressure tank for Primary Fire and Alt-Fire.

Primary Fire: Launches a fast moving projectile that briefly ignites enemies

Alt-Fire: Release a blast of air that pushes enemies and projectiles, and extinguishes teammates that are on fire.

Consecutive hits reward faster reloads and bonus damage
Deals 300% damage to burning players
+50% repressurization rate on hit
Extinguishing teammates restores 20 health
-25% repressurization rate on Alt-Fire
 
Afterburn reduces Medi Gun healing and resist shield effects.
  • Pictogram plus.png Changed: Repressurization rate on Alt-Fire penalty from -50% to -25%
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: Updated item attributes and description to better explain functionality of the weapon
    • Except a big list of fixes, the only thing that the Dragon's Fury need is a smaller hitbox and actually working hit detection, because after last nerf the fireball many times doesn't connect at all with enemy's hitbox, when visually it hits the target. And due to reduced, more reasonable size of a hitbox, remove being forced to hit with fireball's center to make contact with the target's hitbox. Because of it Dragon's Fury lags behind default Flame Thrower.
    • Compression blast fire rate is too slow compared to other flamethrowers. In many situations it's better to just use default Flame Thrower.

Secondary

Shotgun

  • No changes.

Reserve Shooter aka Calefactor

Backpack Reserve Shooter.png
 Reserve Shooter 
Level 1 Shotgun
+15/20% damage bonus against burning launched airborne enemies
-15/20% damage penalty against not burning launched airborne enemies
-50% clip size

Concept #1

  • Pictogram plus.png Changed: Mini-crits targets launched airborne by explosions, grapple hooks or rocket packs to +15/20% damage bonus against burning launched airborne enemies
  • Pictogram minus.png Changed: Clip size penalty from -25% to -50%
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: No longer equippable for the Pyro
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: New statistics moved to a new weapon (for example Calefactor)
    • With the removal of compresion blast from the list of forces allowing to mini-crit airborne targets, the Reserve Shooter became useless on Pyro. It was too good combined with compression blast, but something more reasonable might work, but as separate weapon.
Backpack Reserve Shooter.png
 Reserve Shooter 
Level 1 Shotgun
+15/20% damage bonus against burning launched airborne enemies
-15/20% damage penalty against not burning launched airborne enemies
-15/20% deploy time
-50% clip size

Concept #2

  • Pictogram plus.png Changed: Mini-crits targets launched airborne by explosions, grapple hooks or rocket packs to +15/20% damage bonus against burning launched airborne enemies
  • Pictogram minus.png Changed: Clip size penalty from -25% to -50%
  • Pictogram minus.png Added: -15/20% deploy time
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: No longer equippable for the Pyro
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: New statistics moved to a new weapon (for example Calefactor)
    • With the removal of compresion blast from the list of forces allowing to mini-crit airborne targets, the Reserve Shooter became useless on Pyro. It was too good combined with compression blast, but something more reasonable might work, but as separate weapon.
    • With increased damage potential, the weapon might need some downside, like slower deploy time for example.

Flare Gun

Bugs reported on the Wiki

  • The Flare Gun can self-damage the user if shot at a wall of extremely close proximity, under a specific angle. In such case, it deals up to 25 damage.
    • If the user dies because of this, the kill icon will be that of the Detonator.
Backpack Flare Gun.png
 Flare Gun 
Level 1 Flare Gun
100% critical hit vs burning enemies
 
This weapon will reload automatically when not active.
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: Updated attribute and description

Detonator

Bugs reported on the Wiki

  • Being affected by the Detonation explosion (even by self damage) will remove the visual effects of Jarate and Bleeding from the user's screen.
  • When an enemy is hit with a detonated flare, the blood particles will come from where the flare was detonated, instead of the player.
  • Firing the Detonator underwater will not fire any flares or waste any ammo, but will immediately play the sound of a flare impacting a surface with no effect.
  • Reflecting a Detonator right before it is detonated will cause 85-153+ self damage to whoever reflects it provided they are in the explosion radius. This will usually happen if the player reflects the Detonator projectile into the ground as a direct reflect puts the projectile too far away.
Backpack Detonator.png
 Detonator 
Level 1 Flare Gun
Alt-Fire: Detonate flare igniting near enemies
Increased self damage force
100% mini-crits vs burning enemies
-25% damage penalty
+50% damage to self
 
This weapon will reload automatically when not active.
  • Pictogram plus.png Changed: [Optional] Slightly increased flare jump high
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: Updated item attributes to better explain functionality of the weapon

Manmelter

Bugs reported on the Wiki

  • When this weapon's projectile is reflected, it is reflected as a flare.
  • The critical hits counter does not show when the active weapon is not the Manmelter.
  • Firing at least one time will cause the weapon to not fully go back to its resting position.
  • While holding down alt-fire after having saved up charges, trying to fire while still holding alt-fire instantly depletes the Manmelter of all its saved charges, and the crits counter is reset to 0. The weapon does not actually fire anything while this happens.
  • Occasionally the ash-suck particle effect may not appear.
  • If a friendly Pyro is inflicted by afterburn from the Gas Passer, and the Pyro extinguishes the friendly Pyro, they will recieve points and health, but not a stored critical.
Backpack Manmelter.png
 Manmelter 
Level 1 Indivisible Particle Smasher
Does not require ammo
Projectile penetrates enemies
Projectile cannot be deflected
Alt-Fire: Extinguish teammate to gain guaranteed critical hit and restore 20 health
-80% damage to buildings
 
This weapon will reload automatically when not active.

Concept #1

  • Pictogram plus.png Added: Projectile penetrates enemies
  • Pictogram plus.png Added: Projectile cannot be deflected
  • Pictogram minus.png Removed: +50% projectile speed
  • Pictogram minus.png Added: -80% damage to buildings
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: Updated item attributes to better explain functionality of the weapon
    • A weapon that doesn't know yet what it wants to be. Ability to shoot non deflectable, penetrating projectiles being able to critical hit multiple targets in a straight line would be an original design for this weapon.
Backpack Manmelter.png
 Manmelter 
Level 1 Indivisible Particle Smasher
Does not require ammo
Projectile penetrates enemies
Projectile cannot be deflected
Alt-Fire: Extinguish teammate to gain guaranteed mini-crit and restore 20 health
-15% damage penalty for each penetrated enemy
-80% damage to buildings
 
This weapon will reload automatically when not active.

Concept #2

  • Pictogram plus.png Added: Projectile penetrates enemies
  • Pictogram plus.png Added: Projectile cannot be deflected
  • Pictogram minus.png Removed: +50% projectile speed
  • Pictogram minus.png Added: -80% damage to buildings
  • Pictogram minus.png Added: -15% damage penalty for each penetrated enemy
  • Pictogram minus.png Changed: Alt-Fire: Extinguish teammate to gain guaranteed mini-crit and restore 20 health
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: Now the projectile works the same way as Righteous Bison's projectiles (the projectile might look like on this concept art)
  • Pictogram comment.png Changed: Updated item attributes to better explain functionality of the weapon
    • A weapon that doesn't know yet what it wants to be. Ability to shoot non deflectable, penetrating projectiles being able to mini-crit multiple targets in a straight line would be an original design for this weapon.
    • As the projectile would work as Bison's projectile, to balance penetrating multiple enemies in a row, also here -15% damage penalty for each penetrated enemy might be needed.

Scorch Shot

Panic Attack

Thermal Thruster

Gas Passer

Melee

Fire Axe

  • No changes.

Axtinguisher

Homewrecker

Powerjack

Back Scratcher

Sharpened Volcano Fragment

Third Degree

Neon Annihilator

Hot Hand