New Crit soundfx
Can I do this one after I'm done with the Eureka Effect? I'm almost done with it just saying Ben10508 19:49, 5 September 2012 (PDT)
Quoting the reservation guidelines, "One person may not hold more than 2 reservations at a time, unless all of their reservations apply to closely-related items for which the demonstrations would have a lot of overlap (for example, three reskins of the same item, or three Pyroland items)" — Armisael (T · C) 19:51, 5 September 2012 (PDT)
Does this actually need to be redone? From the patch text, it looks like the sounds only changed if you fire while critboosted (something which definitely doesn't happen in the current video). — Armisael (T · C) 07:14, 8 September 2012 (PDT)
I kinda agree with him Ben10508 09:23, 8 September 2012 (PDT)
Well then, no demonstration — Wind 01:30, 9 September 2012 (PDT)
Some audio desync on the triple-rocket jumping clip (more obvious at the beginning of the clip), crit sound at 2:23 and at 2:43. Also, I think you can jump higher than that if you jump later, right when the explosion goes off — Wind 00:11, 29 August 2012 (PDT)
Not for transitions to and from backpacks screens in my standard procedure. — Armisael (T · C) 09:03, 6 September 2012 (PDT)
so it's mean i worked hard for noting? before i reserved Balloonicorn and Infernal Orchestrina and there is no new reservation rules. i'm not trying to ignoring the rules or anything. Karmacharger 8:16 , 9/6/2012 (PDT)
I did put up some new rules for reservations a week ago, and put a notice at the top of this page to warn about the change. Some people were annoyed that their previous version of the demonstration got overwritten by someone else's version, and one of the rules aims to alleviate that. So yes, I'm sorry, but that notice and those new rules have been there for a while now, and this means that this demonstration goes to Armisael >:
*The damage comparison seems bad; it should be shown for both classes, and it should be fatal for one. E.g. move the spy back and have him wait between shots. (the clip seemed very fast, anyways). The control point clip I suggest a better control point; maybe something at half-speed? Darkid (|) 04:36, 5 September 2012 (PDT)
Yes, wait a second or two more after the damage comparison clip. Also, please move the last two clips (which are for the soldier) to be before the demoman's loadout clip, and then do damage comparison clip for the demoman and capture speed clip for the demoman — Wind 00:07, 6 September 2012 (PDT)
But I'm working on the Amputator, which is a Medic melee makeover. The Solemn Vow is also medic melee Ben10508 04:57, 8 September 2012 (PDT)
The amputator isn't medic makeover - it's being redone because it was changed in the patch on september 4. You are also (presumably) still working on the eureka effect for the engineer melee makeover. Either way, this was previous my demo, and as we just established with the objector, I have reservation rights to it. — Armisael (T · C) 05:29, 8 September 2012 (PDT)
Also, what? Why on earth would it matter that the amputator and solemn vow are both medic weapons? They aren't reskins of each other - that's for sure. — Armisael (T · C) 05:31, 8 September 2012 (PDT)
Is good, thanks~ — Wind 16:56, 27 August 2012 (PDT)
I somehow feel guilty now Ben10508 12:53, 27 August 2012 (PDT)
I'm not sure why you still thought we were following any sort of courtesy with the makeovers - the sudden proliferation of the reserve system killed that months ago, at least for this project. — Armisael (T | C) 08:01, 28 August 2012 (PDT)
Second clip unchanged. First clip: Add a Sniper bot. Kill the Pyro normally, wait for crits to go away, go to soldier, kill Soldier, kill Sniper with the crits gained from Soldier, wait for crits to go away, walk up to medic, wait a bit, hold Shift, wait a bit, kill medic, release shift, taunt.
Reserved by Ben10508
Is there a good reason to use +critsplease here? Especially given that the weapon is capable of naturally providing critboost; to me it seems unnecessary and potentially confusing. Now, the video still needs to be redone on hdr, but the current format seems fine. — Armisael (T | C) 06:21, 27 August 2012 (PDT)
It should be there to show that killing people is not the only way to get crits with this weapon, since they can be obtained randomly — Wind 16:56, 27 August 2012 (PDT)
Can you try to vary a little bit between right/left for the Soldier? Also, for the medic, don't hold the forward key towards him because right now it looks very blurry to the extent that it's not very clear that he died in two hits because the attack rate is really fast and so is the swing animation. If you stay still while attacking, I think it will be easier to see. Same thing for the Soldier, although that's not as important because the non-crit swing animation is easier to follow. Of course for the soldier you'll need to move forward after two or three hits, but not continuously. Thanks~ — Wind
My school just started so, it may take up to at least 24 hours for me but I'll definitely get to it :} Ben10508 18:13, 27 August 2012 (PDT)
Second and third clip unchanged. First clip: Go up to the Medic, hold shift, wait a bit, punch once in front, wait for laughter to go away, punch two or three times in rapid succession, wait for laughter to go away, release shift, kill Medic without crits, then do tauntkill.
Reserved by Armisael
Does this really need to be redone? It already has the critboost - does it really matter that it's through a kritz medic and not +critsplease? — Armisael (T | C) 18:55, 26 August 2012 (PDT)
I'm just wondering, how do you get a weapon like the Golden Wrench or the Saxxy for a demonstration? Ben10508 20:58, 31 August 2012 (PDT)
Afaik you can edit the items.txt file. Darkid (|) 21:10, 31 August 2012 (PDT)
What are all the response lines? I like that we can here these two (and I guess it's why you added the sniper?), but I'd be interested to know how many there are. Also, why does the sniper not fall over? Bad physics, or something? Darkid (|) 21:10, 31 August 2012 (PDT)
I should have added that to the "special considerations" line but yes, this demo should make sure that the engineer plays all 4 of the engineer's special voice lines, because for many players this will be the only time they get to hear them. You can add them in post if necessary, if you can find the right volume and reverb to add to make it sound like it wasn't added in post. It should also show that the statues are not solid objects by walking through the Sniper statue.
The comments about camera angle also apply here; you can reuse the getpos's from the Wrench demo too for extra consistency — Wind 16:34, 3 September 2012 (PDT)
EDIT: Turns out when ever I try to record the dem, it NEVER showed the infernal orchestra. I'd like to give this to someone else now. Boynedmaster 13:07, 21 July 2012 (PDT)
EDIT: Actually, I'll take this back, seeing Ballonicorn doesn't work either. Any suggestions? Boynedmaster 13:18, 21 July 2012 (PDT)
To get it to show up in demos, you'll need to remove "loadondemand" "1" from the item's entry in items_game.txt — Armisael (T | C) 13:28, 21 July 2012 (PDT)
I'll try it. For now I'll reserve it. Boynedmaster 20:59, 21 July 2012 (PDT)
Anyone know of any good server hosters so that someone can play tr_target_weaponref_hdr with me?
You should try hosting it on your own computer, or get someone else to host it temporarily. I can put it on the wiki server but it's kind of hard to get a hold of me at the right time these days. — Wind 14:21, 26 July 2012 (PDT)
Okay. Right now I have the actual demo ready. Just not the "Not visible in Pyroland" yet. Let me go upload it to YouTube Boynedmaster 09:36, 27 July 2012 (PDT)
Very nice! It's not really my job, but since I'm here, I'll point out a few things:
Quality could probably be upped a bit.
On the second phrase of the video, in which you show the Pocket Medic being used without the Pyrovision Goggles, I would recommend moving the mouse off the Pocket Medic briefly. The description covers up the slot where the Pyrovision Goggles would go, so although it can be inferred, it isn't exactly clear that you're not wearing Pyrovision Goggles from the loadout screen.
Thanks for the advice! I'll get right to it. Ben10508 21:48, 9 July 2012 (PDT)
Haha, no problem. :> I'd advise you to also wait for Wind to reply before finalizing, though. — The preceding unsigned comment was added byMr. Vinderack (talk) • (contribs)
The demonstration is kind of backwards, showing with goggles first and then without. It should show the common/default state first, and then show what happens with the goggles on. This does mean a longer demonstration since now both the nogoggles the goggles parts need to each have the usual 3 kills, but that's okay. Also do consider using Source Recorder to get a higher quality video and a more consistent framerate. More importantly, don't forget to reload according to the guidelines (ctrl+f reloading on project page). Fades to backpack view are a bit long, and the time you stay in the backpack view is a bit short. Is all, thanks~ — Wind 18:34, 10 July 2012 (PDT)
Hmm, well that's quite a lot of stuff to fix but I'll do it. I'm using Fraps to record my screen, usually it's smooth but I think it was just that time it lagged a bit and as you can see Wind, no more black bars :D Ben10508 09:42, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
That's normal to have to redo a lot of stuff. I had to make four demonstrations before I got accepted. Regarding Fraps, I actually doubt it was lag. I used Fraps for my very first demonstration, and it produced a similar video. Then, I switched to Source Recorder and eventually used SrcDemo2. That's how I got my quality to be pretty great, so I really do recommend using Source Recorder and SrcDemo2. If you need any help, I'll definitely be willing if you're going to do it. A quality demonstration is a good demonstration. Mr. Vinderack, not as sober as you...thin..yah... 10:19, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
Also, when I put the Pyrovision goggles on, it doesn't look like in what the demonstration for the Rainblower looks like. Someone help? Ben10508 12:41, 13 July 2012 (PDT)
Okay, clearly I didn't think this through when I said to show the default state first, because the viewer won't really know what to look for in that clip until afterwards in the second part. So, sorry about that but err... My bad. However, now that I think about it more, maybe it would best be demonstrated as a split-screen, with the default on the left and the pyrovision on the right. That way the killfeed difference is easier to notice, rather than having those elements spaced by a large time gap of a few dozen seconds where it's easy to forget what's different. So I'd say try doing that; put an enemy in front of you and kill him in both modes (with same starting positions, getpos/setpos/bot_teleport with the prmary weapon, and do that again (in other clips) for secondary and melee. Then do the same for the Heavy. I think that should make it much clearer~ (Make sure to use the split-screen HUD with the kill feed showing properly on a left/right split-screen).
Also yes, it should show pyrovision elements other than the balloons and the modified voice line choices. — Wind 22:24, 13 July 2012 (PDT)
I figured out to get the split screen to work but does both the screens have to have the same actions at the SAME EXACT time? I think that'll be a little hard to do that. Plus, how come when I put the Pyrovision Goggles on, it's not like what's it's supposed to be like? — The preceding unsigned comment was added byBen10508 (talk) • (contribs)
It's not as hard as you think. Just make the clips' content start at the same time and trim them to be the same length. The entire process only takes about 45 seconds for each clip, so it will take approximately two and a half minutes to synchronize all the clips. If you really need help or still do not understand, though, I will make a tutorial video on the concept (and maybe even the entire weapon demonstration process). Ask me if you need any more help or if you need the video. Mr. Vinderack, not as sober as you...thin..yah... 01:48, 14 July 2012 (PDT)
Well, I can make the lengths of both the videos the same, but say that I have two videos and they demonstration a weapon. I fire the weapon err gun whatever, I fire the gun at different times. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Ben10508 01:59, 14 July 2012 (PDT)
Mr. Vinderack, you scared me, Armisael, you saved me, Mr. Vinderack, you saved me even more, lol Ben10508 18:31, 14 July 2012 (PDT)
If I do split screen for this, how will I show the backpack view? Ben10508 08:53, 15 July 2012 (PDT)
Do a full-screen backpack view with the item equipped, and then put labels on each side of the screen as done on the Mantreads demo (make sure to use the same font, same color, same size, but possible different location since the pyrovision frame thingy around the edge of the screen may make the label unreadable) — Wind 10:27, 15 July 2012 (PDT)
So how about this, I show a backpack view without the goggles, the go into third person with no bots. Then I do the same but with the goggles, then do a split screen thing? Oh and, whenever I put on the goggles, I never see the Pyrovision frame and everything else, just the balloons and the altered voice clips. Also, how do I get the Team Fortress 2 styled font? Ben10508 13:32, 15 July 2012 (PDT)
Yes, that beginning sequence would work. The fonts are already in the game files, in tf/resource as described on the Fonts article, which also has download links to those fonts. — Wind 13:52, 15 July 2012 (PDT)
Alright cool but what about the pyrovision thing? Ben10508 15:13, 15 July 2012 (PDT)
I don't know. I would help but my TF2 client just freezes when I try to load any map so it's kind of hard to see for myself. — Wind 00:46, 17 July 2012 (PDT)
Good try with the splitscreen Ben, but I think we still have a few things to clear up (HUD, using track motion effectively, resolution, etc.). I'll talk to you on Steam whenever. Mr. Vinderack, not as sober as you...thin..yah... 22:34, 24 July 2012 (PDT)
Bad music mixing at 0:28 - 0:31 and 0:53 - 0:58 etc. The kill notices (which are the most important thing to show in this particular demonstration) are not fully visible >: Split-screen is also not exactly 50%-50%, and look a bit stretched horizontally (?). Font is a bit big (again use Mantreads as reference). There also needs longer clip intro/outro times. Also, as it is clearly hard to synchronize all 3 kills in a single take across both split-screen clips (although this is a very nice attempt), you may want to do 3 separate clips for each weapon, or just one clip with only one kill. Is probably enough to show what needs to be shown, and simpler to do — Wind 14:21, 26 July 2012 (PDT)
Hmm, it seems a little complicated to do 3 separate clips for each weapon. Can I just stick with one clip with just one kill (similar to the Triboniophorus Tyrannus video)? I can still use split screen though Ben10508 17:40, 26 July 2012 (PDT)
Oh yeah, I forgot to ask, what size should the font be for the text? Ben10508 18:28, 26 July 2012 (PDT)
I'm just curious, is there a reason for the bots being pyro, soldier, medic, and spy? Ghostchicken8 19:17, 1 September 2012 (PDT)
I'm guessing they're the only "normal" classes. If you know what I mean Ben10508 14:47, 2 September 2012 (PDT)
No, i'm not sure what you mean by them being "normal" classes. Ghostchicken8 18:27, 2 September 2012 (PDT)
I know only Pyro to show direct hit damage from flame thrower and close range damage because Pyro is immune from afterburn. Soldier for afterburn damage and medium range damage. Medic for long range damage, some diferrent with hp regeneration and crits damage as seen in melee makeover. Spy for taunt kill. Hinaomi (talk) - (contributions) 18:58, 2 September 2012 (PDT)
The pyro for flamethrower damage, yes. The soldier has a large health pool, allowing for some good damage, but not an overly tedious run. The medic I believe is more so a random choice; more so an iconic class of tf2. Spy has low-ish health pool, allowing for guaranteed death for, say, a low-damage taunt kill. Darkid (|) 19:00, 2 September 2012 (PDT)
Every taunt kill is instant kill. I thought Spy was the choice for it because he's hiding behind the boxes, like Spy usually does. It's ironic because he dies in the most gruesome ways.--Uknownada 21:24, 2 September 2012 (PDT)
Some taunt kills deal 300 afaik... and there's always possibility for a variety. I'm shooting in the dark though; I've no idea why they picked who they did. Darkid (|) 21:28, 2 September 2012 (PDT)
The map tr_target was chosen because it has those little things on the ground that give an explicit measure of what is close range, medium range, and long range. It's an uncomplicated yet good-looking map that was fit for weapon demonstrations. Valve accepted to give me the vmt file so that I could edit out the training bits and to allow the player to go out of the starting area. From there, the bots had to be chosen; there had to be 3 main ones for each range to demonstrate.
The Pyro had to be in there somewhere because of the fire-retardant suit property. I chose him to go to the close-range spot because I thought that one day it may be useful to have him be able to fire at the player, and the only spot a Pyro could that from (with the iconic flamethrower of course) is the close range spot. So if a Pyro had to be there (which was the case), then it had to be there.
The Soldier was chosen because in order to really test if a weapon is viable in combat, you need to know how quickly it can rid you of ennemies. To get a useful measure of that, you need to exercise said weapon againt an opponent that is relatively strong. The Soldier was chosen because it has quite a bit of HP. It could have been the Heavy, but since the close range spot was taken, then the only two remaining spots were the medium range and the long range spots, where killing a 300 HP heavy would take ages for some weapons. So the Soldier was chosen over the Heavy. He was chosen to go in medium range so that he as well didn't take too long to kill (because 200 HP is still a lot to deal at long range), and because that's typically the range at which point a Soldier becomes threatening (at long range, you can usually dodge rockets easily enough, and if you don't then they still don't do much damage because of damage falloff). So the Soldier was chosen as medium-range spot.
The Medic was chosen because the two other spots were occupied by relatively lots-of-HP classes. A lighter class was needed in order to balance things out. Additionally, a Medic is usually a target that is very important to kill, such that even at long range where most weapons don't do much damage, it is still usually worth it to try to shoot a Medic whenever possible. So the Medic was chosen for the long-range spot.
The Spy was chosen for taunt kills partially because of his location on the map. Because he had to be invisible from the player in the default spot, I hid him in a little corner near the medic (to have a clear and straight itinerary for the demonstrator to follow). It's a shadowy place without much interest except as a hiding spot, ie the only things you would find there are either spies or sneaky teleporter exits. But the main reason the spy was chosen is because most taunt kills cause gibs or propel the victim's corpse quite a lot (POW, HAHA; Sandman taunt, etc), and the Spy's corpse is always the funniest to watch when that happens.
Thanks for the info Wind. Makes a lot more sense to me now. Ghostchicken8 13:47, 5 September 2012 (PDT)
And that's how things got started~ Yay history lesson — Wind
Now here's another question I think a lot of people have, but the article doesn't say. Why do you always shoot the cardboard target way in the back? At first I thought it was to show the weapon can be shot that far, but you do it with every non-melee and non-drink weapon. Why is it necessary?--Uknownada 17:15, 4 September 2012 (PDT)
To show whether or not it arcs due to gravity. Darkid (|) 17:49, 4 September 2012 (PDT)
Then why do it with bullet-based weapons, such as the Minigun? Even if it does travel in an arc, you couldn't tell.--Uknownada 19:15, 4 September 2012 (PDT)
It just makes everything more consistent - if it can be hit, hit it. Pigophone 17:16, 5 September 2012 (PDT)
Suggestion for main page
On the main page, under the "need to be redone" section, would it be a good idea if we list the reasons for why it should be redone? Like next to "Pain Train", we type "(for new sounds)"? Not really a big deal, but sometimes I get curious as to why a weapon needs to be redone and it's a slight inconvience to check the talk page every time.--Uknownada 20:48, 8 September 2012 (PDT)
You only need this information if you want to make demonstrations, and need to pick which one to do. And if you need to pick which one to do, then you're going to have to look at the talk page anyway in order to check for prior work or reservations. — Wind 01:30, 9 September 2012 (PDT)
I know, it was just a moreso curiosity thing. Like if somebody's browsing the page, and sees what needs to be redone, they would ask "why does this need to be redone?" Super minor thing though, just a tiny suggestion that might satisfy a couple minds.--Uknownada 15:10, 9 September 2012 (PDT)
The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.