Here's an idea: demonstration for item sets. Demos of stuff like:
Scout with 125 HP gets hit. Set Scout with 150 HP hets hit.
Soldier gets hit by sentry. Set Soldier with set gets hit by sentry and survives longer.
Pyro runs, get killed by boolets. Set Pyro runs faster, get killed by boolets faster.
Demo gets hit by fire. Set Demo gets hit by fire and takes less damage.
Heavy gets hit by crits. Set Heavy gets hit by crits and survives longer (?)
Medic takes damage, recovers health. Set Medic takes damage, recovers health faster.
Sniper gets headshooted. Set Sniper gets headshotted and survives.
Spy cloaks, decloaks, bumps into someone. Set Spy decloaks with no sound, bumps into someone too.
And stuff like that. Of course, that would require people to have the set hats. -- OluapPlayer(t) 21:56, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Support Yes, I like dis weapons. — Wind 21:57, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Oppose According to the project page, the point of this project is to "To demonstrate how weapons work (duh); firing animation, reloading animation, projectile trajectory, speed, damage, and simply viewmodel". I feel like demonstrating sets doesn't apply to 6/7 of those objectives. IMHO, the set bonuses are quite simple and self explanatory in comparison to some of the weapons --Nate(T | C) 23:17, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Support If you're sticking strictly to the objectives, then all non-projectile weapons and melee weapons each disobey one of the seven. Plus there's no reason not to show it; for example, some people might want to see just how well a tank-busting Soldier can stand up to a Sentry. Either way, if we do make these videos, I'd suggest putting them on the pages for the set hats rather than the main Item sets page - BUT the Demo and Medic sets don't actually include hats, so that might be a problem. Ideas? —烏Γ(kaw at me), 02:06, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
SupportI think this is a good idea. I've always been curious has to how much the sets do, like for the Tankbuster I don't know how big of a deal 20% is. I say go for it. KingofKoopas 04:00, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Support I was just going to suggest this, I guess we'd put the demo videos on the stat bonus page. I have all the set bonuses, so if this gets approved I can help with it. Perhaps for the resistance ones we could have a 3rd person perspective showing the decrease of health differing or something of the sort. Raptor Llama 21:07, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Support Videos are fun. Also, they'll show players exactly how much the bonus matters. If we do make them, we ought to put them on the pages of all the items that comprise the set. If we need to, we could make them a sub-category of weapon demonstrations. -Armisael 20:17, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Support It's probably going to be a leetle tricky to make the Heavy set bonus perceptible, but if someone can do it, it's us! — nVis(talk) 18:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, there are two good choices for the heavy demonstration. Obviously, both heavies have to have the claws equipped. There's only one weapons that is neither streaming nor has a bleed/fire/explosion effect associated with it: the L'étranger (3 critical hits vs. 4). If the set heavy eats the steak, and takes minicrits, there are more options. Armisael 19:18, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
I was thinking about shooting a crocket at the Heavies. Crockets do 270 damage, so both would survive. -- OluapPlayer(t) 19:25, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
That's the problem with almost every weapon in the game; they don't distinguish between a set heavy and a non-set heavy with the claws. A quick scroll down the weapon page makes it seem as if the bats (basher excepted) are the only thing added by the minicrits. The chart below shows the ranges that the base weapon damage has to be in; they're absurdly tight, and absurdly rare.
Number of Hits to non-set kill
Full Crit Range
Overanalyzed for this conversation? Probably. -Armisael 19:57, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Comment I got L'etranger, Your Eternal Reward, and Familiar Fez (Saharan Spy) so if this thing goes through, I could deal with that. Maybe Cloak myself and the Spy Bot and make to hit each other a couple times or something. If it matters, I also have Ullapool Caber (1/2 of Expert's Ordnance) and Holy Mackerel (1/4 of Special Delivery). Well, I have spares of those 2 Weapons anyway, but I also have Bushwacka (1/4 Croc-o-Style), Brass Beast (1/3 Hibernating Bear), and Degreaser (1/3 Gas Jockey) available if push comes to shove. I got other Polycount Weapons, but those are Store-bought and therefore, not tradable (Without Gift Wrap). Lancer anti-tank Rocket 10:10, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
You can just edit items_game.txt to give yourself all the items you want, so availability is not a problem here — Wind 22:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
I wanted to try my hand at weapon demonstration, so I reserved a gun. Only afterwards did I realize that the Resistance requires a ton of stuff to be shown:
Faster firing speed
Maximum placed stickies
Slower arm time
Sticky jumping still possible
These are what I'm going to try to demonstrate later. If anyone thinks of stuff to add beforehand, go ahead - I'll check the page before I start recording. — nVis(talk) 00:32, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
Be sure to show that stickies det if they're near you, whether you're looking at them or not. Armisael 01:06, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
I had some trouble with codecs and syncing the audio, but eventually managed to get it working after several attempts: Scottish Resistance v1. It demonstrates most of what I wanted it to, but it doesn't exactly follow the proposed format. I'm pretty happy with the timing, though. — nVis(talk) 23:31, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
Here is the original AVI file, just in case. — nVis(talk) 00:31, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Not bad for a first attempt~ But some things should be improved.
Always reload at the end of a clip (before taunting, and after jumping on 2fort)
The main purpose of the scottish resistance is the ability to detonate stickies in an arbitrary manner, and I think this video fails to demonstrate this properly. For instance, show how the outlines become blue depending on cursor position, make a sticky carpet and explode it progressively, etc; this would show it better than by making clusters.
Faster firing speed should be demonstrated by split-screen: have two demoman firing 8 stickybombs as fast as possible (don't forget to reload)
You should also show arming time with a split-screen, by having them fire a sticky and exploding as soon as possible
This clip shows what happens when you drop more than 14 stickybombs at 0:51. This is a good thing to show, keep it in (just saying this in case it was unintended)
Thanks for the feedback. Here's a version with a different bombing approach and split screen views to illustrate the differences (download). — nVis(talk) 10:42, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that my last video had a slight problem with one of the fadeouts, and was missing ammo counts during the firing speed comparison (a pretty significant flaw). I ended up using a panning motion to reveal the ammo counts in a hopefully non-distracting way. The arm time comparison doesn't display them, but only two bombs are fired, so it shouldn't be necessary. Uploaded on YouTube and MediaFire. — nVis(talk) 14:32, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Good job with the Stickybomb-Scottish Resistance comparison, but...
Premature loading at 0:50 before Taunt. Let your Clip empty before reloading.
Considering you fully loaded before taunting, it may have been recommended to use editing Software to plant that part at the end.
Bots not killed in order. Not a big problem that needs a re-take though.
Might be a good idea to put a SR Bomb behind an obstacle on purpose to show you can still see its Aura. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 16:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
0:50 is not a premature reload; always reload before taunting/when clip is over. Bot order is a worthy sacrifice to make because that way it makes it easier to show how stickies can be exploded selectively. Agree about the aura thing though. On to my analysis~
Reshoot the clip at 0:41: We should be able to see the Demoman firing his stickies, otherwise they're not obviously visible. Since the stickies shouldn't be all clustered in one single place, you should have a friend drop them, or using bot_mimic with some clever bot_mimic_yaw_offset value. Also, we don't properly see the Demoman's behind when taunting; move a bit toward the fence before taunting.
The panning to show the ammo count isn't necessary. It looks kind of disturbing (non-natural camera movement) and doesn't bring much value (they know that both weapons have 8 stickies already)
Alright, I've uploaded version 4 (download). I added a scene that demonstrates detonating stickies through a wall, reshot the sticky destroying part, and removed the admittedly disorienting panning effect. — nVis(talk) 15:59, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Thank you~ Will be uploaded 22:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Any thoughts about showing the crit-negating effects of the battalion's backup? The current video doesn't show it, but it ought to be shown. Having a friend kritz a bot could certainly work, but if anyone can think of a simply solution that would be nice.
Armisael 01:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
Have a splitscreen with a sniper trying to headshot you, maybe? - Zhnigo 20:53, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
No, it is not obvious to see that he was aiming for the head. — Wind 02:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Both Minigun and Iron Curtain continue playing for some time after the video has ended, but that can be fixed easily. Aside that, I couldn't find anything else wrong with them. Well done. 20xx0 10:28, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
That has been fixed. Armisael 13:30, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
You are quite right about the battalion's backup. Kritz medic seems to be the best solution, and the most obvious one when demonstrating things with critical hits involved (like the heavy set bonus effect).
As for the videos, I only got a problem with the Backburner one, when demonstrating damage on the Soldier: Are you sure the minimum amount of damage possible when puffing is 5? Try going backward just a little bit and see. Also, when demonstrating the closest-possible damage, we can't see the damage number. All other videos are good, thanks a lot :3 — Wind 02:47, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Backburner redone. I'm at the maximum range, as demonstrated in the video. I suspect that 4s are possible, becuase I think I saw some, but I couldn't reliable produce them. Armisael 03:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Seemed simple enough. I could shave five seconds off the video by not killing the Spy and I was wondering, should hauling buildings be demonstrated with this? It's not specific to the PDA but the PDA allows for building construction, and those buildings can be hauled, so...
Don't kill the Spy indeed. It's interesting to show that you can't destroy a building though. But are you using the pldx particles again? The buildings explosion seem to use custom particles.
Oops, pldx particles on by accident from recording non-wiki footage, my bad. What about hauling buildings though? Should I demonstrate that? i-ghost 13:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC) (forgot to sign, sorry)
I don't think so. I think there'll be Buildings Demonstrations later so they should be shown there. — Wind 19:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
It's good, save one annoying thing: The demolition PDA's animation doesn't show. I believe it always shows if you go from shotgun to demolition PDA or if you press 5. Could you fix that? It's a bit awkward when it just flashes on screen right away — Wind 22:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
I've been conducting some testing and it doesn't appear to play the animation regardless of which weapon you switched from. I'll just keep re-recording the demos and see, via trial and error, if I get a clean, fully animated run. This will take time, unless somebody can fix the model/animation for me. i-ghost 13:14, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
If it takes too long, keep the version where it works most of the time — Wind 22:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Tell me, please, how to start game in English. I tried to set language in Steam, but changes only voice commands. Gringo perm 05:10, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Well that's... weird... Maybe change the language and then reinstall TF2? (But you probably don't feel like doing that, I'm guessing). Otherwise, try overwriting tf_russian.txt with the contents of tf_english.txt. — Wind 06:57, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
F@$# yeah! I've set English language of Steam, and game was translated automaticly! Gringo perm 08:26, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Still the aspect ratio is wrong, and don't rotate the model in loadout screen while already recording. 20xx0 11:28, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
I have small monitor (15') with maximum resolution 1024x768. Gringo perm 11:32, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, then I'm afraid you can't do weapon demonstrations :( The minimum is 720p, which at 16:9 means 1280x720. D: The video demonstration content is good though — Wind 19:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Hmm... FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!! Excuse me... I NEED AT LEAST 200$ TO MAKE VIDEO DEMONSTRATION!!! I HAVE NO MONEY AT ALL!!! Excuse me, again. THAT'S UNFAIR!!! I don't know WTF is happend with me... Gringo perm 19:34, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I'm sorry, but this does discriminate people based on hardware. This is a necessary evil in order to maintain a consistent quality. :( — Wind 19:45, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, I'll try to repair my old 32' TV on next weekend and, maybe, will make videos for another weapons. Gringo perm 19:50, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
This Vid should show the Kamikaze Taunt both with and without the Lumbricus Lid to show how it affects both the Taunt's Volume, and the kill icon in the kill feed. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 22:11, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
What is "Lumbricus Lid"? What is it? Gringo perm 10:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
The Lumbricus Lid is a hat for the Soldier that changes the Equalizer taunt (adds a new sound and a different kill icon), so it has to be demonstrated as well. You can give yourself a Lumbricus Lid by editing items_game.txt; ask if you need help with that. On to the rest of the video:
The audio and video are glitched from 0:23 to 0:31. I think your computer slowed down or something while you were recording, because the audio sounds weird in that part and the video is not smooth. So you should probably re-record that part (make sure to close all other applications in the background).
Try to have the Rocket Launcher fully loaded before the demo (when you equip it at 1:04, it has only 1 rocket loaded for some reason)
Don't look at the Spy after killing the Medic at 0:46; only look at him when you are ready to tauntkill him
You should also demonstrate that you cannot get UberCharged when you have the equalizer equipped. To do that, charge the Medic to almost 100% before the demo. Wait for the overheal points to fade, then start recording. Once you get to the healing part, show first that you cannot get healed by the Medic, then make him fire his Uber (you can use bot_forceattack2 1 to make him launch it, and bot_forceattack2 0 to make it stop)
Other than that, the video is looking pretty good :3 — Wind 23:20, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the comment, I'll work on the video. And what about lags from 0:23 to 0:31 : I recorded this video on my notebook, that has not so powerfull hardware. I'll make graphics a bit lower. Gringo perm 07:18, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Make sure it doesn't look like crap either (No less than medium settings) — Wind 22:48, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Oh no, YOU I do not forget...
Hey Guys, I'm just about to have a go at The Sandvich Demonstration. Just warming up Fraps now so...yeah, I guess I'm reserving The Sandvich. I've read the plan so I know what to do (Assuming I can pull it off). Lancer anti-tank Rocket 10:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Aspect ratio is off, (black borders cutting off the video) Shock394 18:37, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Sorry but this is still not 16:9 D: (has black borders around it), the framerate is low, it's not HD, and it is not antialiased. — Wind 19:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
How the hell do I fix said problems? I ain't done crap like this before... Lancer anti-tank Rocket 20:42, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Anti-aliasing and ratio are settings in options->video. Make sure that your ratio is at least 1280x720. The frame rate? Well...that's a matter of squeezing more power out of your computer. If push comes to shove, you can take a demo at really low settings, then use fraps on a playback of that (at high settings). Armisael 20:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Well I never knew what anti-aliasing did and I didn't spot Aspect Ratio. My Monitor Supports 1280X1024 (Native Resolution) so it should have no problem with that. Framerate I can't seem to boost, don't know about getting HD, but thanks for the Info. I'll see what I can do... Lancer anti-tank Rocket 20:52, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Videos must be 16:9, so pick "16:9" under the "Aspect ratio" menu (in TF2's video options) and pick any resolution that is equal or larger than 1280x720. As for the framerate, type cl_showfps 1 in console to have an idea of what framerate you're getting, then start the recording. Fraps will "take away" frames from you (so if your card gets 45 fps, and you set Fraps to record at 30 fps, you will only see 15 fps, and Fraps will record the 30 other ones). The objective is to have 30 frames recorded or more every second. If you can't seem to reach that, then you probably have to use the source recorder and merge videos to include the backpack view... Which is quite a bit harder. — Wind 00:16, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Actually, the source recorder does display the backpack view if you go into into it. I have no idea if this is new, and if it is, when it was implemented, but I did use it in my battalion's backup and backburner videos. Armisael 03:17, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
2x is the minimum required, higher is better — Wind 15:01, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Alright, I've done a second take, but Youtube's saying it'll take roughly 1.5 - 2K Minutes to upload, lol. But unlike my other ones, this actually heeds the technical stuff such as aspect ratio, anti-aliasing (Since I was unsure what amount, I did 4x and now I can see that was a bit excessive) and I think I got it in HD, which may explain why it's taking so long. Frame Rates is something for you to look at when YT finishes, however. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 21:15, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, you can already get a rough idea of the framerate by simply playing the video on your computer and comparing its feeling of smoothness to one of the uplaoded video demonstrations (which, truth to be told, is actually how I measure framerate) — Wind 22:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Can you post a link to that video? Just to see if it is good enough regarding technical requirements — Wind 22:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Weird, it's saying I can't upload 0 Byte Files, but I checked it in my Explorer, and it reports a 5 GB File. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 22:12, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
The uploader might consider it too big; compress it with a decent video codec. :3 --Spyoncé 22:13, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
YouTube caps uploads at 2 GB, even using their "advanced uploader" which claims to go unlimited but it does cut yoru upload at 2 GB anyway (learned that the hard way). Anyway, there's no way your video is 5 GB if you encoded it using x264vfw — Wind 22:13, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
I don't think I found the option to compress at x264 then, or at least the right option...Doggone it! Fraps, Sony Vegas, and I can't pull off something like this? This is gettin' embarrassing... Lancer anti-tank Rocket 22:19, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
It's in in Template -> Custom -> Video -> Configure in Vegas — Wind 23:02, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Got it! Thanks for the Patience. Re-rendering with this Codec, then I'll have a go at re-uploading or finding some way to show you. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 23:13, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, it Uploaded the Video in like 10 Minutes (Shock 'n' Horror, YT has never done dat for me! Remind me to use that Codec more often). However, it then said they are now processing the Video...2 Hours later, it still is. And you can't view the Vid 'til it's done Processing. Am I cursed? Lancer anti-tank Rocket 00:33, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, it is still not 16:9 (has black bars on top and bottom) and looks stretched (as if it were recorded at 16:9, shrinked to a shorter size, then scaled up again to 1080p, then slapped black bars on). Framerate is also not as smooth as it should be (except from 0:36 to 0:39 for some reason) D: — Wind 03:23, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Well I did set the Aspect Ratio to 16:9 in-game as suggested, and the Resolution was 1280X720 as well. I don't understand how I can select the settings as requested and it still doesn't meet the standards. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 11:15, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
The problem is probably in Vegas's settings, not in the recording. Look at the project property or in the custom profile for the video size setting, and adjust it to the same size as the recording (1280x720) — Wind 13:11, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Well I hope this solves the problem now, we're running out of spaces with these Colons. I might do a take on something else or whatever. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 15:39, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Question: If this Vid does get accepted, where else do I upload it to? Lancer anti-tank Rocket 18:07, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Nope, still has problems :( This time I'll also go into the content problems:
Biggest problem is low framerate; it seems to get better as the video progresses, but the first 30 seconds are quite hard to watch. I again encourage you to compare the smoothness of the video against one of the uploaded demos to see the difference
Video seems upscaled to 1080p. No need to do this, it increases filesize without increasing the quality
No antialiasing (or perhaps this is an artifact resulting from upscaling the video)
Hovered "Sandvich" twice in backpack view
Can't really see what is happening from 0:25 to 0:31 due to all the props being in the way blocking the view
0:35: Where does that sandvich come from? Should show the heavy being killed
Should show Scout getting more health from it
Should show that you can pick up your own sandvich for a quick 150 HP
Show that medkits give back Sandvich; maybe this will need to be shown on another map if medkits spawned by ent_create don't do this
I'd work on fixing the first 3 problems first before doing a whole other take with all the other problems fixed. Just make a small video where those 3 are fixed~ If using Fraps, stop all other applications, save your demos on a fast (non-busy) partition, record at 30 fps, run the game in non-windowed 1280x720 (even if it looks ugly on your screen). If that doesn't fix it, you'll probably have to resort to using Source Recorder and merging with the backpack view — Wind 19:53, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
I don't understand framerates. it seems the higher I set it on Fraps, the better the framerates, but you make it sound like it should be the opposite. Upscale I don't remember doing. Maybe it was sub-conciously done. As for the double hover, that was where my Mouse Spasmed. *Perfect* time to do that. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 21:06, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, if you recorded at 1280x720, and YouTube shows a 1080p video (1920x1080), then the video has been scaled up at some point... As for Fraps, Fraps's framerate settings is the number it takes away from your game. If your game can render 45 frames per second and you set Fraps to 30 fps, the recording will be 30 frames per second and you will only see (on your screen) 45-30 = 15 frames per second. So higher Fraps framerate means smoother recording but harder-to-perform because your visible framerate is lowered. The issue isn't there though, it's simply that this video doesn't have 30 frames per second. This is either due to your game not being able to render enough frames in the first place (in which case using Fraps is pretty hopeless), or if Fraps cannot write the video file to disk quickly enough. Disks are the slowest piece of hardware in a computer, and more frames per second for Fraps means more data to write to disk per second, which, if your disk is too slow, means too many lost frames because they can't be written on the disk in time. — Wind 21:24, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Major protip that I picked up about game recording: If you have two or more physical hard drives (not one drive partitioned into two logical ones, actual physical disks), set Fraps/CamStudio/whatever to output to the drive that the game files are not on. So if Steam is installed on C:, you record to E: or whatever. The reason is that the drive with the game files is using all its capability and data transmission rate to send the level and other data to the rest of the system. If you're also trying to put video data onto that same drive, the upstream and downstream transfer rates are cut in half or worse. Result: horrible lag in both the game and the resulting video. Recording to a second drive means that one of them can focus on the game data, and the other can focus on the video data. And as far as I know, it applies regardless of drive type (mechanical, USB, SSD...) This is irrelevant, however, if you use the can't-buy-recording-software method of Demo-to-AVI, as the game won't let you specify an output directory, and it's already focusing on converting demo data into AVI frames, so it doesn't matter how slow it processes, the resulting video will still be smooth.
By the way, does it really have to be non-windowed for recording? My 4:3 monitor will only allow 16:9 in windowed mode. It also seems to lag less in a window. WackoMcGoose 19:29, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Nope, you can record in windowed mode just fine. Even better with the -noborder launch option. :3 - Zhnigo 23:46, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Doesn't have to, no, but fullscreen mode should be faster and smoother because in real fullscreen (not -noborder'd fullscreen), the graphics card has access to the whole screen without going through the window manager. When ran in windowed mode, the window manager needs to apply compositing effects, etc. which can only make the program slower — Wind 03:12, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Huh. I guess I got used to windowed because in fullscreen, Alt-Tab creates horrifying lag, especially during map transitions when I like to lurk on SPUF. WackoMcGoose 21:16, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Low framerate, especially from 0:07 to 0:10 (or whenever there is projectiles on the screen). It's an improvement but it's not enough yet. If you can't make it any higher, use the Source Recorder (that way, you also won't have to re-record everything)
The whole demonstration is very chaotic: bots firing everywhere (see bot_forcefireweapon), things happening right when the transition occurs (wait a few seconds)
When I said to show the Heavy, I mean have a Heavy standing there and kill it, not be the Heavy and get killed. Transitions usually mean "everything has changed" for the viewer, so what happens in one clip should not be related to what happened in another one
Needs to show that the Sandvich can be thrown on the ground for a bit longer than that
Chat text visible at 0:43
As I said before, do not fix the "content" problems before the technical ones are worked out. That way footage doesn't go to waste, and you don't have to re-record everything again :( I am only listing the content ones so that you know what to fix once the technical problems have been solved. Record only a few seconds of footage (like the first ten seconds), render that, and upload it — Wind 18:40, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
I don't believe the "Wrong Ratio" thing again. I set it to the recommended "1280X720" Resolution in SV for render output and it's just gone and letterboxed it unlike the "1080" version.
Well, I'm sorry, but it does have black bars around it on YouTube :( — Wind 22:52, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Framerates are only an issue while up close with prjectiles. The Rocket for example, leave a trail, which generates heaps of tiny entites and slows down the Computer, on the whole which is irritating.
Well, this has to be fixed anyway. Try rendering using Source Recorder, that'll be smooth. — Wind 22:52, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
I tried that "bot_forcefireweapon" thing and nothing happened. I'll try it again!
You need to figure out the exact weapon name, which can be tricky — Wind 22:52, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
I don't have a Sandvich-wielding Heavy I can show being killed, only myself.
I guess you'll need to ask a friend. But, as I said before, do not worry about that for now. Worry more about getting the technical details fixed first — Wind 22:52, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Not technically Chat Text, but still annoying, much like the kill notice was as well.
I swear to the 4 Corners of Holy *Hell* that I'll get this demonstration right, even if another one gets accepted before I'm done! Lancer anti-tank Rocket 21:26, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, I sure like to see such enthusiasm :) — Wind 22:52, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
This is not the Demonstration. This is a 15-Second Test to see if the problems have been properly solved. I recorded the same Vid twice - Once with 60 FPS, and once with 30 FPS for comparison reasons. 60 FPS30 FPS. Which should be preferred for use (If either)? Lancer anti-tank Rocket 18:56, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Neither of these is satisfactory, as both have the same effectively recorded framerate. You'll have to use Source Recorder :( — Wind 22:48, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I slowed down your video 4 times and did a frame-by-frame count to show why it (and all the others before) are not satisfactory: Link. It doesn't matter what settings you use to record, what matters is the resulting frames per second D: (Note: I did not count certain frames in the video above, because they were basically a combined versions of the frame before and the frame after them, rather than real frames. Even if they were counted, though, the FPS is still low) — Wind 00:47, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
<Light Growl> Framerates screw me over every single time. I just don't know anything more to do to fix it. I record at 30 FPS it sucks. Same with 60 FPS, and even when rendering with those settings. Worst of all, I used Source Recorder and went over it with Fraps. I just don't know why or how it's going wrong anymore, but something isn't working right in this thing. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 00:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
I don't either :( Did you set host_framerate when recording with Source Recorder? Does Vegas limit the output to 15 FPS or something? — Wind 20:08, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Very nice! Nice work showing the Backburner critting from behind. Just a couple petty things I would've added: The Backburner having no Compression Blast (Soldier's Rockets will work) and said Backburner shown doing slightly more damage than the Flamethrower. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 11:09, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
For this purpose there is a Flamethrower Demonstration.Gringo perm 14:01, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
It is a good weapon demonstration but has the wrong aspect ratio :( In the meantime, Armisael has done his own Backburner video, so I think it'll be used. — Wind 19:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
*WALL*. I think, when I'll buy new monitor, all demonstration videos will be allready created =((( Hmm... Wait a sec, I have an old 32' TV with DVI cable jack. It have a resolution 1280*720... I'll try to switch on and connect it to my computer, when I'll have free time. Gringo perm 19:40, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Don't be silly, at the rate VALVe is going, there may be more stuff to demonstrate than what's on the list right now. I'm sure you'll find something. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 14:21, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Not so smart with your Brains OUTSIDE your head are ya?
I just came up with a suggestion for the Razorback Video. What you could do is hide RED Spy behind the Player and empty his Revolver Ammo so he's using his Knife. Then have BLU Sniper pick off RED Pyro and RED Soldier, then RED Spy breaks his Razorback (via Bot Commands). BLU Sniper spins round and dispatches RED Spy before finishing with RED Medic. It might also be a good idea to have a shot from RED Spy's Point of View as to show the Knife being disabled and RED Spy being unable to do anything until his Knife cools down. It's a random plan I just thought of for the Vid. Whaddya say? Lancer anti-tank Rocket 16:45, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, there already is a Razorback demonstration (the only problem with it is the aspect ratio). It uses a third-person view to show the sniper, and a picture-in-picture thing to show the spy's first-person perspective. I don't think the Sniper should be "busy" with other targets, as it distracts attention from the main purpose of the demonstration: the Razorback. However, I agree that it should contain the sniper's first-person perspective while scoped in, to show that it makes the Sniper unscope. — Wind 19:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Technical prolems: It is letterboxed (has black bars on all sides), and the in-game audio is low compared to the music
Music isn't long enough; pick a longer song. It's okay if it's longer than the video, as long as you add a fadeout at the end
Since damage is based on distance, you're actually doing less damage to the Soldier with the Crit-a-Cola than to the Pyro without the Crit-a-Cola. To fix this, shoot both once, drink, then shoot both again.
The Crit-a-Cola also makes the wearer take mini-crit instead of regular shots. The video needs to show this, preferably using a split-screen of showing the damage you get from a rocket while under the effect and while not under the effect
So, what's the plan with these? How are we going to show their backpack pages (are we at all)?
The way I see it, the videos should show the following:
Build time (unwrenched)
Health at each level
Hauling buildings/move speed
Damage at each level (sentries; perhaps just put it in the player box and let it kill everything? Is the mini tall enough for that?)
Heal rate/metal recharge rate at each level (dispenser only)
Recharge rate at each level (teleport)
Telefragging, in all it's glory (teleport, obv.)
- Armisael 19:02, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure the Combat Mini-Sentry Gun is big enough for that. You may hafta Mount it on the Desk/Boxes for it to kill something. It should be small enough to fit on there. Though maybe the Mini-Sentry should fall into the Gunslinger Demonstration seeing as they cannot be used without it. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 21:34, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
I think putting it in the player box is a bad idea, as it prevents showing sentry rotation speed properly. The Gunslinger demonstration already contains the Mini-Sentry stuff (can't be upgraded etc), but it still deserves a place in a demonstration video (perhaps merged with the Sentry Gun one, unless it gets too long). Should also show the Wrangler too, cause that's part of Sentry functionality. Should show Sentry jumping perhaps... Some people have been asking for that one on the youtube comments.
I'm not sure how to demonstrate building health without doing silly comparison (like killing a Soldier and a sentry gun side by side wit the same weaponry) or using a custom HUD that shows them. — Wind 22:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Considering how buildings are usually destroyed in normal gameplay, maybe the obvious thing to show would be how many rockets or stickies are enough to destroy them on every upgrade level and how much time it takes for a sapper to drain their health completely? Also it seems logical to make three videos (sentry, dispenser, teleporters) instead of one, or else it will be too long. :3 Maybe you can use this time to more thoroughly demonstrate some non-obvious features, such as:
Critical hits being ineffective on buildings.
Your teammates being able to pass through sentries and dispensers while yourself and the enemies (spies in particular) can't, this makes you able to jump onto them and\or use them as stepping stones.
Sentry rotation speed being slow enough so that most classes can outrun it at point blank.
Level 3 dispensers (not sure about the earier levels) providing enough health to stay underwater withtout drowning and enough metal for heavies and pyros to fire continuosly without running out of ammo.
Not sure if those are really worth demonstrating, just some suggestions. :3 - Zhnigo 22:58, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
About that sandvich demo I reserved earlier. Originally I planned it like this:
A heavy gets damaged by a soldier from full health to ~4 hp, eats his sadvich, and picks up a medkit to show that the sandvich recharges
A heavy drops his sandvich for a damaged friendly heavy
A damaged heavy kills an enemy sandvich-wielding heavy and picks up his sandvich for 50 hp (who said 150? dropped enemy sandviches heal 50 hp)
A damaged scout does the same for 75 hp
But then I ran into some problems. Long story short, it turns out I can't both spawn medkits and control bots at the same time (has to do with dedicated servers and plugins), so in part 1 I can't be shot at by the bot and pick up the medkit simultaneously. The solution would be either to start part 1 at 1 hp without the enemy soldier, or to spawn the medkit in part 2 and pick it up after tossing a sandvich to a teammate. Which one is more preferrable? Also, should I show the sandvich taunt, and if so, when? - Zhnigo 23:31, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Do you have a Candy Cane? Killing a bot with it in a suitable location before starting the recording should do the trick. I'm wondering about the taunt, though - as it's identical to eating the Sandvich, how would you make it obvious? By the way, dropping the Sandvich for a friendly Medic instead of a Heavy would set a nice example for new players (Zank you!). — nVis(talk) 23:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
It really needs to show that you can eat your own dropped sandvich, because it is a viable tactic and is often way more practical than full nomming
Show that you don't lose your sandvich if you're already at full health
Taunt at the end, which will nom the sandvich regularly, yes, but Valve is lazy like that. It can also be merged with the above: taunting at full health won't lose the sandvich
Don't drop a sandvich for a friendly heavy, it makes it look like only heavies can use it. Drop it to some other class, preferably a Medic because that's the most common choice. Might also wanna set that Medic on fire to show that it acts like a healthpack and extinguishes the fire
Previous attempts at the demo showed the sandvich being thrown directly at the other person, without touching the ground. The demo needs to show that the sandvich can stay on the ground for a while (3 seconds is enough)
That's all I can think of right now — Wind 04:28, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Even if you do find a suitable spot to kill a Bot, the body tends to stay until either the ragdoll limit is reached or that Bot dies again. Even then, you may have taken so long the bonus disappears. I learnt that when shooting Take 2 just after giving a BLU Sniper a Sandvich (Wasn't on Fire though, might need a re-take if it's that big a problem) that had been lying around for a bit. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 09:07, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
P.S., If it turns out to be THAT big a problem, we could do a colab with me working Incognito (Backstage stuff an' crap), seeing as I'm working on this one too, and have not 1, but 2 Candy Canes. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 09:12, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Oh, I forgot to tell you - I already tried the candy cane, and the medkits spawned by it do not refill the sandvich gauge. Look's like it's the same bug as with the medkits droppes in medieval mode. Thanks for the aforementioned advices, namely about igniting the medic on fire and picking up own dropped sandvich, I'll do that. - Zhnigo 15:37, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
If you need to spawn healthkits, I have a config that can do that for you. It's one that I scripted to help me in my videos, hope you find it useful. http://pastebin.com/f3JhawHYi-ghost 11:18, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, you're a lifesaver. :3 - Zhnigo 12:19, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
Here's the sandvich demo, first version. A sincere thank you to I-ghost and an angry glance to those wiki editors who didn't fell it necessary for the ent_create command to be included into the wiki list of console commands. :3 - Zhnigo 13:49, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Wow, I really don't know how I repeatedly missed that one, sorry.
Healthkit sound is very delayed at 0:39
Not sure you should be a Heavy when killing the other Heavy to show +50 HP. It's 50 HP for all classes except the Scout, right? It would probably be wasteful to demonstrate health gain for all classes, but at least pick a different class than Heavy to demonstrate the +50 HP part. Otherwise, it would look like the Heavy is the special case to someone who doesn't know
Reloading guidelines mean you should reload the Scattergun in the Scout clip (and reload whatever weapon you will use for the previous clip with the non-Heavy, non-Scout class)
Pretty good, but you need to show that it doesn't heal when you nom it manually. A lot of people don't know that. All the rest is good~ — Wind 21:36, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! :3 So at the end of the first cut, instead of dropping the steak, I should eat it, right? Should I also include a different, new cut where I pick up my own steak? Or does the part where the medic picks it up suffice? And also, what about the sandvich vid? — Zhnigo 21:50, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
It should include both, to highlight the inconsistency in that it heals you when you pick it up, but doesn't when you eat it. Preferably, those two things should be demonstrated close together (one right after the other) — Wind 01:55, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Version 2. :3 Again, what about the sandvich? — Zhnigo 22:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
There is a transition glitch at 0:50 :( The 3 Soldier rockets part is also probably better demonstrated split-screen (synchronize the timing of the three rockets) Also (obvious one) it lacks music. — Wind 22:52, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Version 3. I'm having trouble synchronizing the soldier's rockets for some reason, that's the best I could manage without video editing. :3 What about the sandvich demo? — Zhnigo 02:48, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Just keep holding F so that the Soldier fires his rocket at the maximum rate, then it should be easy to synchronize~ All the rest is perfect. — Wind 05:19, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
There are obviously some problems here. It doesn't show how much metal it costs to reload rockets at all, and the backpack view is rather aimless. Comments, please. -Armisael 17:08, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
The Backpack view is needed to show that you don't need any special weapons to create the Sentry Gun. As for Ammo, you should try and show how much Metal it costs to replace one of each. So showing how Much Metal it costs to reload one shell and again to show how much for one Rocket Salvo. It might be a good idea to do this with the Wrangler off-stage, so record using the Wrangler to fire one shell (Only one) and then you hitting the Sentry Gun to replace said shell. Then again, but with 1 Rocket Salvo to show how much metal that costs.
It might be necessary to trim out the parts where the Wrangler (And its Shield effect) can be seen before rendering. Make sure to use a LV 3 Sentry Gun for both of these. Common misconception is to use a lower-level Sentry Gun with the Shell experiment 'cause it can use those, but the Wrench will use 25 Metal to try and upgrade it as well as replace the Shell. You get the idea, I hope. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 17:56, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Natascha video needs to show that now, slowdown is based on distance. So you should do multiple takes for slowdown. Buff Banner is good but it'd be nice if it had more teammates in it, so that you can more easily show that they all get the buff. I know the current one doesn't do that, but it'd be nice still. Oh, and you also need to tell us how you make your videos so smooth :o — Wind 19:53, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
That can't be right, because YouTube re-cuts it to 30 frames per second in the end D: Do you merge frames to 30 fps? Anyway, Buff Banner taunt needs to show the flag like the Battalion's Backup demo does. Just taunt a bit earlier~ — Wind 05:47, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
Alright, tried again. Got the flag in for about 2 seconds with everything I had to demonstrate(I hope thats enough ;_;). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf89szS1Czc And ya, youtube scales down to 30 fps but all that matters is the source footage. 150fps rendered to 60 will have the rendered version show what 150fps would look like at 60fps without actually looking like 60fps, if that makes sense, and so on. That's how it works(I think). ~Garticuno♥(talk) 08:10, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
Is good, please upload~ — Wind 15:40, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
After looking back on the other Demonstrations, I noticed some things out of placed or missing some stuff that would be useful in demonstration. For example, the KGB's could do with demonstrating the Crit Buff after the kill rather than just flashing the other Weapons for half a second. Also, Music was rather out of place, such as starting late (Notably in Fists of Steel and Wrench), though this isn't as big a problem. Irregardless, it might be a good idea to go over and polish the already performed Weapon Demonstrations. Before resuming work on the others. Better to do a full-assed job with half the work done than a half-assed job with all the work done. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 20:15, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
The music starting late is okay as long as it's only the backpack view that doesn't have any music. In the Fists of Steel and Wrangler case, the demo is ~1:03 long, while the longest training music is about a minute long, so it's normal that it starts a bit late. You're right about the KBG, and the backpack view isn't even correct (cursor isn't on the weapon slot when the video starts) — Wind 20:30, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
To fully demonstrate the KGB's crit boost you'll have to spawn 5 bots and kill them all in a row, isn't that too crowded? :3 Namely, first goes the regular KGB kill, then a crit-boosted KGB kill, a critical shotgun kill, another regular KGB kill for one more boost and finally a minigun kill. You could probably bring this number down to 4 bots by firing the critical shotgun only once and at a healthier class like the heavy, but still. I'd ask Wind or Natemckn on the opinion on that one. - Zhnigo 23:13, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
That's... the same, shotgun isn't reloaded. Reload it before switching away from it, that is all — Wind 01:55, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Oh I thought you meant that the shotgun wasnt fully loaded. First vid only had 4/6 shells loaded when I first took the shotgun out so I thought thats what the problem was. Well, good thing I saved a script for all those bot placements. ~Garticuno♥(talk) 02:36, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Very good, thank you :3 — Wind 22:52, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
I guess since the KGB is done with then, we can go back to discussing other demonstrations that need improvement. Specifically the Grenade Launcher. The current demonstration fails to show splash damage, juggling, and grenade jumping. Should the Demonstration be remade to include these? ~Garticuno♥(talk) 06:36, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Sure, feel free to move weapons from the "Done" section as long as you have a good reason to (and this is a good reason) — Wind 08:07, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Indeed. I've also noticed some Petty Issues such as the Ambassador Vid - The Camera does not return to First Person before the Vid finishes). Also, may I suggest for the Sapper Vid that you show the Buildings working properly (i.e. Teleporter transporting enemies or Sentry Gun targeting Team-mates) until they are Sapped, after which they are shown not to be functioning properly until an Engineer removes said Sappers. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 12:17, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Among other things with the Ambassador Demonstration, are that the player model preview isn't aligned correctly in the beginning, then is rotated. Also the viewmodel_fov is set too high.
The Sapper demonstration itself seems like it should be a lot more complicated than it is. Other than what it shows now:
It could use what Lancer said about targeting team mates
Showing they can be broken by the Homewrecker
Showing how long sappers take to destroy buildings uninterrupted (questioning this one, might make the demo too long to demonstrate every level)
Showing sappers destroyed on teleporters get destroyed on both sides
These are of course all questionable though as these could be demonstrated in the building demonstrations once they're made. ~Garticuno♥(talk) 03:08, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Okay for all of those ("Showing sappers destroyed on teleporters get destroyed on both sides" is already demonstrated in the current video) except the "time to destroy buildings uninterrupted" things, because that is building-specific, thus better placed in the buildings demonstrations. Not sure about the Homewrecker; its demonstration does show that already, but I guess it's fine to demonstrate it here too... — Wind 22:48, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Hmm, I guess the only real problem with the sapper demonstration then is what Lancer pointed out. Also I was going to try to re-do the Ambassador demonstration but when I was aiming at the bots their name plates were showing even as I was undisguised(not sure if its supposed to be like that), while in the current demonstration the name plates are off so I'm not quite sure on how I should re-do this. Anyway I took a shot at re-doing the Grenade Launcher, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nts40TxND6Q. ~Garticuno♥(talk) 00:27, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Is good! Let Wind decide. As for the Ambassador, the Plates were switched on in the Mann-conomy Update I believe, which means weapons such as L'etranger and Your Eternal Reward would display the Plate. I also think the Knife demonstration displays them too. It might just be best to go with it. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 00:34, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
That is good and pretty consistent with the Rocket Launcher demo. Please upload the original~ — Wind 00:47, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
I was wondering if the other spy weapons need to be redone considering that enemy name plates now always show?
If the Black Box/Direct Hit should be redone in a similar fashion to how I made the Rocket Launchers Demo, as in also showing RJing, juggling, reflection?
If any weapon that has a reflect-able projectile should be re-done to show that(although I'm more partial to keeping it to major reflect-able projectiles like rockets and grenades).
Although pretty minor, if the Ullapool Caber demo should be redone to show its explosive attack's splash damage?
If the Brass Beast demo really needs to be remade? Comparing the sound it makes in the current demonstration and what it sounds like now I really couldn't find a difference (If need be, I could re-make it very quickly though).
I guess I should re-make the Grenade Launcher demo again too...(forgot to show reflection!) ~Garticuno♥(talk) 11:01, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
FaN is good, but the twitch-aiming when jumping is a bit confusing. Players need to know the angle they need to be shooting at in order to achieve maximum height or maximum horizontal flight, and twitch-aiming doesn't let them see that very well. You should keep looking at the angle at which you are going to shoot fur the duration of the jump, I think... Anyway, 2 other people have submitted FaN demos, so I opened a vote at the bottom of this page to determine the demonstration to use.
I don't think redoing Spy weapons is worth it just for the name plates... If you're up for it, sure, but that's really not major
Black Box / Direct Hit: Probably, yes
Again, if you're up for it
Ullapool Caber would be kind of hard to show. Would you need to keep looking downward all the time to show the damage numbers?
I haven't used the Brass Beast in-game so I don't know if there's actually new sounds, but the February 3, 2011 Patch does say "Updated sounds for the Brass Beast."
You may redo the Grenade Launcher demo, especially if you still have all the original video files for the other segments, so that it'll be quick
What I'm worried about here is that there is many "retakes" while not all weapon demonstrations are done in the first place. It is better to focus on the weapons that have no demos at all before fixing minor things in the existing ones — Wind 18:48, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Yeah good point, I'll worry about all the minor things later then. I'll just work on the BB/DH for now then. Anyway here's the FaN http://www.mediafire.com/?8a7ve4rmr46rbml. Sorry about the twitch aim, happens naturally from playing so much competitive. ~Garticuno♥(talk) 20:44, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Can you fix the twitch aiming anyway? From the vote below, it seems your demonstration is going to be selected, so it'd be nice if it didn't have it. It'll get in regardless, but if you're up to changing that, it'd be nicer — Wind 21:00, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
I see that a large amount of users keep making the same mistakes, so I thought that it would be appropriate to outline these moments right on the project page to avoid further repetition:
You can make only the desired bot instead of all the bots fire his weapon by using the bot_forcefireweapon (weapon name) commmand.
You can spawn health kits and ammo boxes by using the ent_create (entity name, such as item_ammopack_small or item_healthkit_full) command. Credit for this one goes to I-ghost.
You shouldn't rotate the model in the loadout screen when the recording is already running. I believe people keep makig this mistake because there's a phrase "Rotate the loadout preview to show off the weapon" in the instructions to the preparation for the recording.
Lastly, this is a bit of a stretch, but the behaviour of some weapons is affected by water. I'm alien to map-making, but if someone could expand the tr_target_weaponref map to include a small water basin, that would solve this problem without resorting to using other maps with water for the demonstration. The added length of the map with the basin would also be useful for demonstrating the sandman's maximum stun range. Just lenghtening the map and adding a body of water while keeping everything else untouched doesn't sound too hard, but then again, I have no experience in mapmaking, so I'm in no position to judge. :3 - Zhnigo 23:55, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
I've done a bit of mapmaking. I could probably remove the Fence behind the Target Range so you can run back there and get some distance. As for a Water Basin, that'll require Carving into the Floor of the Map and making sure you can leave the Basin as well so that'll be a bit more trickier. Altering the Map will not be an easy Task, but with proper time, tools, and patience, it can be done. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 14:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Oppose I vote against map altering, all the videos have already been shot on a waterless map; one of the goals for these videos was consistency. Taking an excursion to a different map is good because it allows players to apply it to real play better - like the water in 2Fort of my Jarate video; the Jarate only gets washed off when you're totally submerged, not when you're knee deep. Or my Sandman video, it demonstrated the maximum range for the Sandman stun/Home Run kill whilst giving a good real world example - on 2Fort where that stun can only be achieved in the way I did it in the video (diagonal as opposed to straight on). And on a different note, I'll be writing a small guide on how to achieve a good quality recording and detailing the limitations of bots etc. - it'll be posted on my user page soon™, if I can ever figure out wiki markup. --The preceding unsigned comment was added byI-ghost (talk) • (contribs)
Does that mean that other weapons whose behaviour is heavily based on the distance to target (chargin targe, for example) are also being better to demonstrate on actual gameplay maps? - Zhnigo 00:08, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm fine with modifying the map (there's several places that are never seen on demonstration videos where new content can be added, like the doorway on the right of the starting point). The thing is, the map's source file has been given to me because I asked for it, and I am not sure if I am allowed to redistribute it (I asked but got no answer, so I'd rather not). As such, if any map altering needs to be done, it needs to be done by me — Wind 03:32, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Continuing with suggesting suggestions, I think it would be quite handy to put up a section with a list of console commands useful for weapon demonstrations right on the project page, so that beginners won't have to browse a long and possibly incomplete list of commands on this wiki and other sites in search of the particular one they need. I believe our list should include at least the following: hurtme, getpos, setpos, setang, ent_create (for spawning medktis and ammo, as stated earlier), changelevel tr_target_weaponref (to quickly get rid of blood, bodies and bullet marks), mp_waitingforplayers_cancel 1 (To get rid of the "Waiting for players" countdown. If this can be included into weaponref.cfg, all the better.), bot -class -team -name, bot_teleport, bot_mimic, bot_forcefireweapon. I'll add more when they come to my mind. :3 - Zhnigo 16:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
The project page isn't locked, feel free to add to it (as long as it's in another section at the bottom or something) — Wind 18:40, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
I've got some doubts againts the new edits, namely:
"Note: If you want to perform scripting on bots with spaces in their names, you must create a separate config file containing instructions for that bot, which you then exec in the console.'"
I didn't quite understand that. Does it mean that bots with spaces in their names can't be controlled via the console? They can, as long as you wirte their names in quotation marks, like "Friendly Heavy 1".
Not tested, but I'm pretty sure you're right — Wind 20:08, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
"Similarly, you must use the mimic command to make Engineer bots rotate buildings."
I'm pretty sure that engineer bots can't build stuff, at least with the mimic command, let alone rotate it. Can someone recheck that please? — Zhnigo 20:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Oh, that they certainly can (see Sapper demo). Just use bot_command Engineer "build 0 0" (change the building ID correspondingly) — Wind 20:08, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
"Note: If you want to perform scripting on bots with spaces in their names, you must create a separate config file containing instructions for that bot, which you then exec in the console.'"
What I meant was, you can't alias or bind a bot action if the bot name has spaces (Source Engine cannot nest quotes). Sure, you can type it into the console every time, but when you need to automatically reset a scene on demand on a key press, it's not an option; especially when you have very complex scenes (see my invisibility watch demos). So instead of alias action "bot_teleport Friendly Spy x y z x y z", you have to do alias action "exec do_action.cfg", where do_action.cfg would contain "bot_teleport Friendly Spy x y z x y z", do you see?
"Similarly, you must use the mimic command to make Engineer bots rotate buildings."
Bots can build stuff in two ways. You can perform the keystrokes whilst in mimic mode, or you can issue a bot_command build # #. In any case, you cannot get them to rotate using bot_forceattack(2), you need to enable mimic whilst they have the toolbox ready, then press mouse2 yourself for however many times you want them to rotate it. It's tedious, but it's the only way. i-ghost 18:29, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
If I'm gonna be nit-picky about hings, it would be the Camera Panning for instance when showing the Metal and Health Increase. It's unnatural Camera movement and looks kinda disturbing...Oh yeah, and you assigned no background Music. Use one of the training_vid_*.mp3 Files in your TF2 VPK. Another thing is changing to RED Team. You can spawn Bots by using bot -name <Class Name> -team blue -class <Class Name>. Finally, try and show all 3 levels as they give health and metal at higher rates on higher levels. I think those you'll need to work into a re-take. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 23:03, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Wow I am missing alot. Just to clear some other stuff up, the camera panning is to put emphasis on the ammo and health, red team was to heal the bots I damage. I guess ill remake it tomarrow. Tryer 23:34, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
But the Camera Panning is non-natural movement and can be distracting. Besides, people know the Dispenser provides Health and Ammo. And as stated above, you can spawn BLU Bots to show healing. Especially since you can order RED to fire upon them and hurt them without you needing to spend any ammo or time on it. Lancer anti-tank Rocket 23:57, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Alright, here are the things that are wrong for the video right now:
Engineer has 156 health? wtf?
Chat text during the first 6 seconds
No panning please, it looks unnatural and makes it look like the two phenomenons (ammo+health) are happening separately
Not following reloading guidelines at 1:03
No need to pan for the Soldier thingy
No taunting, the Dispenser has no taunt
Now, it also needs to demonstrates a lot of things:
Dispenser levels (upgrading)
Wrench'd building time vs non-Wrench's building time (same as Wrench demonstration)
Ability to move it
Metal meter mechanic
Ability for Spies to regen cloak and health from enemy dispensers
Abiltiy to take metal from other Engineer's dispensers
Difference between levels:
Health regen rate (do a 3-way split-screen)
Ammo regen rate, if it is different (not sure)
Metal regen rate (40 to 60 a sec), metal giving rate (40 to 60 per "serving")
Sapping time/number of rockets required to destroy (also split-screen)
There's probably more, but that's all I can think of right now (And yes, that's a really long demo) — Wind 03:32, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Don't fret, not everyone gets it right first time. Look at me! I'm still working on The Sandvich. Which reminds me... Lancer anti-tank Rocket 14:44, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
It certainly is hard D: — Wind 18:40, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
the 156 health is because I did it in tf2 beta, My tf2 is too heavily modified. Should I just turn off the hud?
And could someone give me a link to the bot commands, Tricky things to find.
As far I know camtasia does not support splitscreening different clips so that wont be happening unless I find a work around.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Tryer 20:47, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Get Vegas, it's what all the cool kids use these days. You can't do this in TF2 beta, and certainly don't turn off the HUD. What I would do if I were you would be to rename the tf folder to something like tf_mod. Start the game, which will create a virgin tf folder. Put the modifies stuff in there, and get some demos done. When you want to play with your modified TF2, rename "tf" to "tf_weapondemo" or something, and rename "tf_mod" back to "tf". This way you can easily swap between the two configs. Bot commands are here — Wind 21:36, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, I thought about doing that but couldn't remember the correct procedure. As far as Vegas is concerned, thats more torrents I don't need, my Fraps and Camtasia is already that. There are already videos demonstrating different healing rates, the best thing I can come up with is showing the trials 1 after the other. --The preceding unsigned comment was added byTryer (talk) • (contribs)
Please do a split-screen to show the rates difference, seriously :( It's not that obvious when done sequentially (and makes this already-quite-long demo three times longer) — Wind 01:55, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Iz not possible. unless... Tryer 01:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Rather than create a new tf folder, you can put "-autoconfig" inside the game's launch options. It does the same thing, just saves you time and hard drive space.--Piemanmoo 01:51, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Nope, that would delete all required files (map, config, and HudDamageAccount) — Wind 02:01, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
You should be able to put all that stuff in a seperate cfg files and just type in console "exec wikistuff.cfg" to get there--Piemanmoo 08:25, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
You can't put maps or HUD files in a configuration file... not sure what you're talking about here D: What I'm saying is that demonstrations need 3 custom files in the tf folder, and that -autoconfig would clear those files. — Wind 22:48, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Looks good, except i think you should include Pyros deflecting some rockets, showing that they deal mini-crits to the player AND that Pyros can airblast. - Yack 06:42, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
What Yackemflam said. Also, this doesn't follow the reloading guidelines on multiple occasions (only reload when out of rockets and at the end of the video before taunting)~ — Wind 08:07, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, this is good :3 — Wind 22:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Mad Milk (redone)
Seeing as the MM got reserved over a week ago and hasn't been done yet I decided to take a shot at it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E2mm6OMU5U. I wasn't sure whether or not I should have taunted at the reflection section, but I did to better show that reflected milk can be self inflicted. ~Garticuno♥(talk) 07:29, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
Not bad for a first try, but still some things to modify:
Slow down when shooting in part 1, to let the viewer properly connect the shot with the health gain.
Don't taunt with the bat; if you want to show that the player is covered in milk, use the thirdperson command instead of taunting.
Move closer to the Spy, the droplets are hard to see from this distance
Here's my re-doing of FaN demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e58Voo6bbSc. It's my first Weapon Demonstration so please tell me if it needs improvement. I've basically done the same things as the guy on the original video except that I've taunted in the more lighted spot. Your Enemy 20:04, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
Demo goes a bit fast: Take your time between things
When demonstrating jumps, should include both non-FaN and FaN versions for comparison
You can go much higher than that with a forcejump (aim higher)
Try to increase the framerate a liiiiiittle bit. This one is a tiny bit choppy. If you can't, cheat by using interpolation or merged frames, it should look fine
Music is a bit loud (can't really hear the Scout when he says "That's what I'm talkin about")
Yes, that's OK, except the framerate that is a bit choppy. Sadly, 2 other people have made a FaN demonstration at the same time as you, so I opened a vote at the end of this page to vote between them — Wind 18:48, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Natascha: The important part about Natascha is the slowdown effect it has, which is not demonstrated in this video
Force-A-Nature: Doesn't really show exactly how far and how high you can go with the weapon. 2 other people have made a FaN demonstration at the same time as you, so I opened a vote at the end of this page to vote between them. You can see big forcejumps in one of them
Ambassador: I'm sorry, but this one has already been done (and with link just earlier today) :( Yours isn't bad, except that it shoots 6 bullets at the target at the back (1 is enough)
Please vote~ Everyone may update their video right now to address their Disadvantages too. — Wind 18:48, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
My vote goes to Entry 1. Entry 2 fires at the target from on top of the crates and doesn't show that the Scout can make those jumps with out the FaN. Entry 3 is desync-ed from everything, and it's a little sloppy. Fendermcbender 18:54, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Entry 1 is the best. A little bit of twitch is better than desynch, and better framerate than 2, and it's just generally better than 3 Balladofwindfishes 19:11, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
SupportEntry 1 Smoothest frame rate, shows pretty much everything and the only problem is the twitch aiming, which isn't so bad compared with the faults of the other two. It really isn't much of a problem anyway. ScatmanJohn (Talk | Contrib) 19:13, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Entry 1 is the best option. Twitching isn't as annoying as desynchs or framerate from other videos. Despite that twitching evrything is ok in this video, so why not choosing it? --Parseus (talk • contrib) 19:17, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
I go with Entry 1. very smooth ~awesomesauce~ 19:39, 6 February 2011 (UTC)Awesomesauce
I don't care if it has twitching or not, just make sure it has everything, so Entry 1, maybe start uploading it now, looks like unanimous.Shock394 21:23, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Yes: As decided a while back, Telefrag and the Teleporter building demonstration should be merged into one, so showing Telefrag alone is not enough. The Telefragging part of that demo itself should include more things, like how enemy Spies can use it against engineers, or how you can telefrag uber'd enemies — Wind 21:17, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Why is the tauntkill shown twice? Might also want to rotate the camera while the Soldier is dead, to show that both enemies are ded, not beeg surprise
The healing part should start with the Rocket Launcher equipped first, to show that the medic is trying to heal the Soldier in the first place (otherwise, the viewer can't be sure if he's healing or not until later on when he does heal)
It is preferable to use an enemy bot shooting at you rather than self-damage for the healing part
Healing part should also show that you lose the Uber when you equip the equalizer. This can be done in the same take as the healing part, by making sure the Medic starts with 80% charge or so. It is important to you this because so many soldiers seem to forget that :(
I think you can jump higher than that with the forcejump (without the need for a second jump at all in order to get on those crates). Since it is a little-known skill, it is important to show its full power. While you're at it, might also want to add the two types of forcejumps (forcejump then double jump / jump then forcejump) if you feel like it
Direct Hit is good, but see remark below.
Grenade Launcher has a noticeable frame lag when landing after the grenade jump (1:12-1:14), and see remark below
Black Box: The reloading guidelines are violated twice in the airshotting part D: (Reloading before clip is empty, then not reloading at the end of the clip). Second one is easy to fix, but the first one, I'm not sure. Maybe make the first enemy be a Heavy? It won't fly as far, but at least it'll take 3 rockets to kill and will still demonstrate the point that this thing sends things flying.
@All videos including reflections: People have been asking in the comments about why the Pyro shoots fire before reflecting. I am guessing that this is because bot_mimic is on, thus when you shoot the explosive, the Pyro shoots flames. You can prevent this from happening by doing something like this:
alias +attack_reflect "+attack"
alias -attack_reflect "-attack; wait 5; bot_mimic 1"
bind mouse1 +attack_reflect
alias +attack2_reflect "+attack2"
alias -attack2_reflect "-attack2; wait 5; bot_mimic 0"
bind mouse2 +attack2_reflect
This will make bot_mimic 1 be enabled only after you release mouse1, and will turn it off when you release mouse2. This way, the Pyro will only mimic mouse2. Now I don't know if it is worth fixing. If yuo still have all the source files for those videos, then try this out if you feel like it. Otherwise, it's not big deal and you can upload the one that is perfect besides that (Direct Hit). Thanks for doing all of this — Wind 23:16, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Before I make the edits to everything, I showed taunt killing with the Equalizer twice once with regular grenades, then again to show the hand grenades from the Lumbricus Lid and the kill icon. Just want to know if I should include the difference there. Also thanks for the script :3. ~Garticuno♥(talk) 23:26, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Oh yes, you're right, I forgot about the Lumbricus Lid. Yes, it is fine (and you should indeed show it), but a backpack view would help, otherwise it gets confusing because the different is not that obvious. Do a standard backpack view, except hovering the hat instead of the Equalizer. Also, the Lumbricus Lid's taunt is supposed to play the Hallelujah sound from Worms... Why isn't it playing? Did they break it? — Wind 23:30, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Also the DL link for the FaN: http://www.mediafire.com/?xi8ca5jkekyfrwd Im not sure what you meant by other force jumps. Specifically, force jump then double jump, because im pretty sure you have to use one jump first to force jump in the first place. I also did some more testing with force jumps and what I got in the video is about as high as a force jump gets you.
The LL's taunt isn't screwed up btw, I just don't actually own it so I had to edit in the item, kill icon, and sound. I just forgot the sound the first time. ~Garticuno♥(talk) 05:49, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Very well then, no complaints about any of them (can you believe that?). I especially like how the Direct Hit and the Black Box one use consistent movements and rocket jump patterns. I do, however, have one request: Can you re-make the Rocket Launcher demo (with no fire-reflect) and the same movements? That way, all the explosive weapons' demonstrations will look very consistent. (And please put links to every one of those demonstrations). I'll do the FaN demo myself, don't worry about it — Wind 06:15, 8 February 2011 (UTC)