|
|
| (38 intermediate revisions by 21 users not shown) |
| Line 1: |
Line 1: |
| − | == Mini-Crit Capitalization == | + | {{Talk archive |
| | + | | arc1name = Archive 1 |
| | + | | arc1link = Talk:Critical hits/Archive 1 |
| | + | }} |
| | | | |
| − | Considering how Crit is capitalized, shouldn't it be Mini-Crit, not Mini-crit? --[[User:Firestorm|<font color="#FF6600"><tt><big><u>'''Firestorm'''</u></big></tt></font>]] {{mod}} 21:26, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
| + | == Counter-Strike's random bullet spread headshotting you several times to a quick death was the inspiration of random critical hits. == |
| − | :That's what WindBOT had at first, but then Smashman yelled at me on Steam because of it. — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] {{adm}} 21:33, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
| |
| − | :: He does that, sometimes --[[User:Firestorm|<font color="#FF6600"><tt><big><u>'''Firestorm'''</u></big></tt></font>]] {{mod}} 22:46, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
| |
| − | ::: Bump, because this is serious business --[[User:Firestorm|<font color="#FF6600"><tt><big><u>'''Firestorm'''</u></big></tt></font>]] {{mod}} 00:22, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
| |
| − | :::: This is [http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2614/sewious.jpg sewious]? [[User:AbeX300|AbeX300]] 02:36, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
| |
| − | ::::: That post was completely pointless. --[[User:Firestorm|<font color="#FF6600"><tt><big><u>'''Firestorm'''</u></big></tt></font>]] {{mod}} 03:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
| |
| | | | |
| − | ==Merge==
| + | In this [https://web.archive.org/web/20151121184600/https://www.1up.com/features/beyond-the-box?pager.offset=5 archived interview], they talk about the inspiration of random critical hits. I believe TF2's random damage spread and random bullet spread were inspired by Counter-Strike's random bullet spread and own damage spread. Seems like they were inspired by playing Counter-Strike all around. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive apparently removed random bullet spread and random damage spread, and TF2 has patched out random damage spread and made it a convar. [[User:Dingdong1232|Dingdong1232]] ([[User talk:Dingdong1232|talk]]) 22:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC) |
| − | {{hatnote|Originally posted at [[Talk:First Blood]]. History merged into this page 04:12, 11 September 2010 (UTC).}}
| |
| − | {{c|support}}: -[[User:Shine|<font color="#666666">'''Shine'''</font>]] ({{mod}}) 07:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
| |
| | | | |
| − | {{c|support}}: --[[User:Firestorm|<font color="#FF6600"><tt><big><u>'''Firestorm'''</u></big></tt></font>]] {{mod}} 07:44, 1 September 2010 (UTC) | + | :The Internet Archive is being DDOSed right now, so I can't check the source right now but it sounds like this is something you inferred from the text, rather than something that was implicitly stated?<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 22:39, 9 October 2024 (UTC) |
| | | | |
| − | {{c|support}}: -- [[User:OluapPlayer|<font color="red">'''OluapPlayer'''</font>]] <sub>([[User_talk:OluapPlayer|t]])</sub> {{adm}} [[File:User OluapPlayer Sig.png|Howdy, pardner!]] 23:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
| + | ::I think Robin Walker says something like "It was inspired from hitting three lucky headshots in Counter-Strike". Maybe. [[User:Dingdong1232|Dingdong1232]] ([[User talk:Dingdong1232|talk]]) 22:41, 9 October 2024 (UTC) |
| | | | |
| − | {{c|Comment}}: I think this would be more relevant contained within the Arena article, however, because game modes do not have individual articles (something we might want to consider changing), it would be hard to cleanly integrate. -- [[User:Nineaxis|<span style="color:#FF8C00;font-weight:bold">Nineaxis</span>]] {{mod}} [[File:User Nineaxis sig duck.png|12px]] 23:15, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
| + | ::Edited "random spread" to "random bullet spread". [[User:Dingdong1232|Dingdong1232]] ([[User talk:Dingdong1232|talk]]) 22:46, 9 October 2024 (UTC) |
| | | | |
| − | {{c|support}}: Really no reason not to. -[[User:The Neotank|<font color="#FF8C00">'''The Neotank'''</font>]] ({{mod}}<small> | [[User talk:The Neotank|Talk]]</small>) [[File:User The Neotank Signeotank.jpg]] 15:06, 6 September 2010 (UTC) | + | :::We'll have to see when IA works again, but it could definitely be possible. Make sure to indent your replies using {{code|:}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 22:47, 9 October 2024 (UTC) |
| | | | |
| − | {{c|Support}}: Add it to critical hit. -- [[User:Nightbox|<font color="#008000">Nightbox</font>]]<sub> ([[User_talk:Nightbox|t]] <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.steamcommunity.com/id/nightbox s])</span></sub> 11:52, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
| + | ::::Oops [[User:Dingdong1232|Dingdong1232]] ([[User talk:Dingdong1232|talk]]) 22:51, 9 October 2024 (UTC) |
| | | | |
| − | {{c|Support}}: HIT IT, DOC — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] {{adm}} 04:03, 11 September 2010 (UTC) | + | :::::Looking at the interview, and I have two points to make: |
| | + | :::::# I don't know which Counter-Strike Robin Walker played where he "[happens] to get lucky at times and get five consecutive headshots", but I wish I played that one. |
| | + | :::::# Seems like random crits are partially inspired by Counter-Strike's spread pattern system. The only issue is that it's not really mentioned in the article explicitly, and (imo) it feels kind of odd to mention "random crits are inspired by the spread pattern system in Counter-Strike sometimes causing a "lucky headshot"". This feels more like saying "Robin Walker being bad at spray control in CS is what inspired random crits". I'm not sure on a good way to phrase this particular inspiration without seeming like CS' spread patterns are luck-based or without accidentally insulting Robin Walker's spray control ability.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 01:49, 10 October 2024 (UTC) |
| | | | |
| − | == Disable crits in trivia ==
| + | :::::: Definitely exaggerating, but you do sometimes see scrubs win rounds with random headshots. In my opinion, these mechanics bring a layer of intensity to the game, but it seem like neither fans of these games took them well. I made this discussion page because I couldn't figure out how to fit it either, but it's out here now. Better have something than nothing. The end justifies the means, y'know? I should've expect this with a wiki, it's over-rigid. It's also just really confusing. We can figure it out by experimenting. I don't think spray has anything to do with it, though. [[User:Dingdong1232|Dingdong1232]] ([[User talk:Dingdong1232|talk]]) 04:36, 10 October 2024 (UTC) |
| − | | |
| − | Considering how small the section on disabling crits is, and how it does not pertain to normal gameplay, I believe it should be put in trivia, as opposed to getting its own section. --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 21:32, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Proposal: Move to [[Critical hit]] ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | It makes more sense to use singular in this page title, in my humble opinion. ~ <code>[[User:Lhavelund|<font color=red><span style="font-size: 1.2em;">'''lhavelund'''</span></font>]]</code> <sup>([[User_talk:lhavelund|t]] ▪ [[Special:Contributions/lhavelund|c]])</sup> 04:05, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Just posted here to test signature ban me plz ==
| |
| − | This was a joke. What about we poot mini-crits to another page? Whabat that? --[[User:Zomgcorp|Zomgcorp]] [[File:Speech voice.png|28px|link=user:Zomgcorp]] 15:50, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Redundant Links ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | I've noticed, specifically in the achievement section, that there are links that lead to the Critical hit page (this one), despite the page itself being the Critical hit page. I'd fix this myself, but the error seems to lie within the achievement templates themselves. Example: Revengineering has a link to this page, as do many other achievements.
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Is this accurate? ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | "Backstabs instantly kill the enemy by dealing damage equal to 6x their current health (unless the player being backstabbed is a Spy using the Dead Ringer, in which case it will deal 1/6 of their current health"
| |
| − | | |
| − | Is this accurate? If Dead Ringer reduces by 90%, it means it reduces to 10%. 10% of 6x (600%) is 0.6x (60%), not 1/6. (16%) [[User:Webrunner|Webrunner]] 07:59, 6 July 2011 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | :A backstab on a Dead Ringer should be 60%, I believe. [[User:Freakie|Freakie]] 08:13, 6 July 2011 (PDT)
| |
| − | ::Actually, I'm not so sure now that I think of it, we need someone to test this. [[User:Freakie|Freakie]] 08:25, 6 July 2011 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == "The crit boost electricity effect will randomly appear on its own in large quantities in the map at the end of a round." ==
| |
| − | I'm pretty sure this isn't random at all; the boost effect is being attached to spectators. Especially noticeable when someone who's being spectated has two boost effects, one on their weapon and one near their head. [[User:Dragonsbrethren|Dragonsbrethren]] 15:02, 13 August 2011 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Combat Text ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | I don't believe that the 'Critical Hit!!!' text not being displayed is a bug, this was clearly intentional, they even defined a different font to use for crits. It should be noted somewhere in the article itself, and I may do that later if I have the time. If anything is a bug it's that the 'Mini Crit!' text is still displayed when a teammate scores a mini crit, instead of showing the damage they did. When a Medic is healing a teammate they see all of the damage their patient is causing, and it makes sense that the same would apply to Jarate and other mini-crit assists. [[User:Dragonsbrethren|Dragonsbrethren]] 15:51, 13 August 2011 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Maximum Mini-Crit Damage Question ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | So it says [[Critical hit|Mini-Crits]] inflict 35% more damage. Does this mean that Mini-Crits will also inflict 35% more damage at close range, turning the maximum non-Crit ramp-up from 150% of normal (or 175% for [[Scout]] [[Scattergun|shotguns]], & less for a few other weapons, like [[Stickybomb Launcher|stickies]]) to 202.5% of normal, or does the max ramp-up remain the same, so the Mini-Crit range is only from 135% to 150% of normal?
| |
| − | | |
| − | [[User:Litnin200|Litnin200]] 21:43, 3 September 2011 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Critical Hit as a placeholder for Dota 2 spell = trivia? ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | [http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31082805&postcount=407 Link to some placeholder spell icons]. In the dota2 beta, the critical hit text from TF2 is used as a placeholder. Is this trivia worthy? I'm on the fence, personally, but I thought I'd mention it [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 18:38, 18 September 2011 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Knockback ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | I can't find any references to the relationship between crits/mini-crits and knockback in either this article or the knock back article. I know that from personal experience all criticals have a pronounced knockback effect on airborne targets (be it from explosive, melee, or hitscan damage). It seems like an important aspect to the nature of critical hits that is somehow unexplored. [[User:Telamascope|Telamascope]] 08:21, 10 October 2011 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Some interesting weapon quirks ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | About the crossbow, does range affect crit dmg? Also, reading gunslinger crit, there is a slight mistake. It crits on hitting a player on the third swing. U can hit an ally twice, then hit an enemy for a crit.[[User:Nibelhim|Nibelhim]] 05:35, 4 November 2011 (PDT)
| |
| − | : For the crossbow, it does. Its base damage varies by distance. For gunslinger, that is a known glitch that I think was fixed at some point. [[User:RedMage|RedMage]] 05:49, 4 November 2011 (PDT)
| |
| − | ::That glitch with the Gunslinger still works if you're hitting a building - works a treat if a Spy pops up while you're trying to upgrade! '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 06:25, 4 November 2011 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Critical Hit Weapon View ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | I was wondering if we could add to each weapon page what the weapon looks like when boosted by critical hits. Is this something we can do or would it fit better here?--[[User:Magnum Force-Enforcer|Magnum Force-Enforcer]] 13:55, 8 March 2012 (PST)
| |
| − | :{{c|comment}}: Don't think that it is necessary, all Particle effects (including critical sparks) can be seen [[Particle_effects|here]]. Thay are same for all weapons... [[Image:Killicon_deflect_flaming_arrowhs.png|45px]] [[User:ANGEL_UNDEAD|ANGEL_UNDEAD]] 06:55, 9 March 2012 (PST)
| |
| − | | |
| − | Yeah I guess so. I still think it would be cool to have on each weapon page what the weapon looks like when crit boosted.--[[User:Magnum Force-Enforcer|Magnum Force-Enforcer]] 18:13, 9 March 2012 (PST)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Critical Hit Chance, Erroneous Information ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | I added this as a comment in the section, but I'll post it here too: "Just as a note: I removed the erroneous information regarding the 50% melee critical hit chance. The test being done by the reference is flawed: Doing something 100 times is not indicative of its critical hit chance (I.E: Attacking 100 times and getting 64 critical hits does NOT mean that the chance to critically hit is 64%, that's a fallacy). The graph to the right clearly shows the ramp-up and where it flatlines." The test being performed is relying on inaccuracies to come up with its conclusion. [[User:Odin(Reborn)|Odin(Reborn)]] 09:58, 27 April 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | :The difference of 64% versus 25% is quite significant. I wouldn't dismiss the data based on "Well it's not what valve says it is". To me, this requires further testing. The article was not claiming that it was exactly 64%, it was merely pointing out that this number seemed high.
| |
| − | :You should avoid leaving comment text within the page--it looks messy. Leave comments on deletions in brief edit summaries, or on the talk page. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Tavish DeGroot Experience.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Essential Accessories.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 12:16, 27 April 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | ::I kept the comment in there because I didn't want anyone to think that I just randomly removed the information for no reason. [[User:Odin(Reborn)|Odin(Reborn)]] 15:07, 28 April 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | :::Anything you put in the edit summary will be obvious to anyone looking to see what happened. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Tavish DeGroot Experience.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Essential Accessories.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 15:09, 28 April 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Maximum Melee Crit Chance. ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | Can we get a source that suggests the maximum melee crit chance is 25%? To my knowledge, the maximum crit chance IS sixty-five percent, but it seems that people think it's 25%. We already had a source that suggests the maximum crit chance is 65%, but I have yet to see any evidence that suggests a 25% chance. [[User:TheIgnorantMedic|TheIgnorantMedic]] ([[User talk:TheIgnorantMedic|talk]]) 21:54, 9 June 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | : I saw that prove that it was 2 years old. I think you need a newer prove for about crit change. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 22:17, 9 June 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | :: If i remember correctly, The person who stated 25% was darkid. I believe he was doing some hard testing. However i may be wrong. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 23:03, 9 June 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | :: I'm sorry, but I haven't seen any evidence ''against'' a 65% crit chance, and I did test it myself, using the itemtest map and some bots as engineer, and it really does look like it has a 65% cap. After allowing my sentry to fire on it's own for a while, I destroyed it and started meleeing the bots. It seemed to be roughly two thirds (66%) of my melee attacks were crits. [http://rapidshare.com/files/357232991/crittest.dem Link to download DEM file of my test.] [[User:TheIgnorantMedic|TheIgnorantMedic]] ([[User talk:TheIgnorantMedic|talk]]) 23:41, 9 June 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | :::Hm, I'll direct Darkid (assuming he see's this himself) to this discussion. As i do recall him doing some hard testing regarding crits before. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 23:59, 9 June 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | Could it be that melee weapons use a unique crit combo system? Rather than thinking of a melee weapon as a single shot weapon where each swing has the same critical hit chance, what if Valve made it so that after a critical hit is successfully rolled another critical hit combo is more likely to happen. That would skew the percentage to be really high if you are doing nothing but meleeing 100 bots in a row. I have no proof on this, just something that I thought might be possible because of how the system works for rapid fire weapons. [[User:Rolen47|Rolen47]] ([[User talk:Rolen47|talk]]) 09:13, 13 October 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | The test which was performed which led to this whole discrepancy (and what is referenced on the main page) is flawed. If you max out your crit chance then attack 100 times, it doesn't mean that the crit chance is 65 if you land 65/100 crits. [http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2221 This is the official summary by Valve.] It is still relevant since the crit system has not been changed since. Since no one can definitively confirm about the 'new' crit chance, I think it's better to just use what Valve has stated it is. Changing it back for now. [[User:Odin(Reborn)|Odin(Reborn)]] ([[User talk:Odin(Reborn)|talk]]) 15:20, 19 November 2013 (PST)
| |
| − | :Can confirm. I recorded 1000 hits, scored around 641. I can redo, if you like (it was a pain). By hitting an enemy with every swing, I guarantee my damage to be over the 800 cap. I also ran the test without--got 15% (which agrees). Again, I can record (oh gods) if you want. There are intermediate tests which can be done (sun on a stick) to generate the graph... if someone else is willing to do that. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Proof of Purchase.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|Talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Cap'n Calamari.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|Contribs]]) 15:53, 19 November 2013 (PST)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Weapons Not Showing Crit Glow ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | Just a quick query, would it be worth creating a list or table or something that lists weapons that can't crit glow either due to their VMT or because they are back/feet items? It doesn't necessarily have to be on this page, this one just seemed the most appropriate place to bring it up. --[[User:Omolong|Omolong]] ([[User talk:Omolong|talk]]) 11:08, 24 June 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | : Not really. No point in making a table. Its just going to be a waste if valve fixes them. [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] ([[User talk:Ashes|talk]]) 11:42, 24 June 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Vaccinator Resistance ==
| |
| − | "The extra damage is of the "critical" type instead of matching the weapon's original type, meaning it cannot be resisted by the Vaccinator's healing"
| |
| − | This is out of date or misleading. The Vaccinator demonstration video clearly shows damage resistance to incoming critical hits when using the charge. [[User:Copycatalyst|Copycatalyst]] ([[User talk:Copycatalyst|talk]]) 02:25, 20 October 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | :When Ubercharge only, not the healing... Although it's bugging but not listed on its page, I don't know what to deal on this one.... [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 03:01, 20 October 2013 (PDT)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Text or table ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | Many people asks me about this problem that they are uncomfortable to hide and unhide the table for just read the single note for the weapon. So I decided to try make the [[User:Hinaomi/sandbox|text version]] of these tables. So the question is "Should we still use the table format or change to the text?" [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 05:43, 8 February 2014 (PST)
| |
| − | :I personally would prefer sticking to the tables, as the item icons/names and slot names fit nicely to that kind of format. The opening/collapsing isn't really a problem in my opinion. [[File:User Zabidenu sig.png|link=User:Zabidenu]] <small>([[Special:Contributions/Zabidenu|contribs]] ▪ [[User talk:Zabidenu|talk]])</small> 05:46, 8 February 2014 (PST)
| |
| − | :I'd stick with tables, as they help keep the page consistent with the rest of the wiki in terms of style. - [[File:Leaderboard class tank.png|30px|link=Special:Contributions/Cobaltcakes]][[User:Cobaltcakes|<span style="color:#0047AB;font-size:16px;font-family:'Agency FB Bold';text-shadow:#d3d3d3 3px 3px 0px;"><b>COBALT</b></span>]] 05:55, 8 February 2014 (PST)
| |
| − | | |
| − | == Medi guns ==
| |
| − | | |
| − | Medi guns are currently listed under "[[Critical hits#Weapons that are exempt|Weapons that are exempt]]" due to their inability to deal damage even though they can be crit-boosted. However the medi guns can deal damage in Mann vs. Machine using the [[Upgrade Station#Secondary|projectile shield]]. So the obvious question is; when a Medi gun is crit-boosted does the projectile shield inflict critical damage? If yes should they be moved to "Weapons that cannot gain random crits and cannot gain situational crits" with a footnote explaining that it only applies to Mann vs. Machine? - [[User:Tasty Salamanders|Tasty Salamanders]] ([[User talk:Tasty Salamanders|talk]]) 07:26, 29 March 2016 (PDT)
| |
| s | GrampaSwood 
(talk) (contribs) 22:39, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
