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Err...I don't know if this is really apporpriate for a page, as we try to keep controversies out of the wiki. I see you put a lot of hard work into it, so I think the rest of the staff ought to voice whether or not to keep it.--Piemanmoo 22:39, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Eh, marked for deletion: Not helpful, fuel for controversy, lack of neutral tone, writing style, etc. Sorry. -The Neotank ( | Talk) User The Neotank Signeotank.gif 23:04, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't like this at all – we're not covering controversies now? I disagree that the page requires a full article, however, I don't see why there cannot be at least a section on Cheater's Lament explaining the controversy. seb26 [talk] 04:15, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Unless reasonable opposition appears soon, I say we delete this. -The Neotank ( | Talk) User The Neotank Signeotank.gif 22:58, 13 October 2010 (UTC)


Can this be reworded? "With the onset of the recent Polycount Update, anyone who used SteamStats back before it was patched now received a Cheater's Lament." - Statement should also indicate that some accounts, that did not receive the first Cheater's Lament, and were only active after SteamStats occured, also recieved the Cheater's Lament.Nooch 22:52, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

However, this piece of information has nothing to do with idling, and everything to do with the Cheater's Lament. File it there, not here. Subtlefuge 23:01, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Yesterday i tried editing the page, my edit was lost when the edit before me was undone. maybe i should have started here 1st anyway? I'd suggest the the page start with a simpler statement? Idling is the term for players who join a Team Fortress 2 server and do nothing. While connected to the server, players are eligible to recieve items from the item drop system.Nooch 15:30, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

My reasoning

As long as a controversial subject is maintained to be as unbiased as possible, I think it should be allowed. I wrote the page so many newer players can learn what idling is and not begin to think bad thoughts about other players without knowing the full story. Every other day a thread pops up on the forums about idling and the cheater's lament because nowhere really gives unbiased information about both idling in general and the event surrounding it. I really wanted to keep it as unbiased as possible, hence why I avoided popular terms like "Halocaust", so any body who just wants to learn can see what happened and why. Sorry if it caused any unrest. Darthz01 23:00, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Keep / Delete

Pictogram info.png Result of discussion: Keep. -- Pilk (talk) 08:11, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Sandboxie\TF2 trading\idling How-To

I figured I post a How-To in case anyone needs it. It uses Sandboxie, with the free version allowing 1 sandbox. It's perfect for trading between 2 accounts on the same computer.

One thread on Steam forums.


1. Open Sandboxie, click Sandbox->Create New Sandbox (name it SteamAlt or something)
2. Right click SteamAlt and open Sandbox Settings:

  • Restrictions -> Drop Rights -> UNtick 'Drop rights from Administrators and Power Users groups'
  • Resource Access -> File Access -> Direct Access:
    • Add Program (Steam.exe)
    • Add directory for Steam.exe, pointing to your copy of the Steam directory (You can copy your copy of Steam and the core TF2 files, in case it conflicts with other running copies.)

3. Either right click Steam shortcut and select Run Sandboxed or use the Sandboxie window to run the steam.exe program.

And if anyone is thinking if it will get you banned...

"Is this safe to do or do you risk getting banned for 3rd party software?"

"Doubt it. What Vavle was all up in arms about back when they banned everyone for using the idle client was the fact that it used Steam directly. Basically it tricked Steam into thinking it was TF2 which is a big no-no. They don't want 3rd party tools in anyway interfering with Steam.

Sandboxie on the other hand is just a tool to control applications, to make sure that they don't overwrite files you don't want them, restrict their access the registry or the internet. Also of course to "collect" all files generated in the sandbox in a safe place.

It does in no way interfere with Steam itself or how Steam operates though, so I doubt Vavle would care."

DennoCoil 04:57, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Idling, Valve and this Page

Is it good idea to keep information how to idle in Wiki? Valve never liked idling, so why should we openly spread this information? The question is: Should we delete this How To Idle part? Teh catteth 11:33, 7 September 2011 (PDT)

Idling Servers and Achievement Servers are okay. Using external programs isn't. Calinou 11:34, 7 September 2011 (PDT)
Then Why did Valve make this week cap? Teh catteth 11:38, 7 September 2011 (PDT)
Regardless of what happened in the past idling is a complete non-issue now. Idlers gain no advantage whatsoever over other players. User Moussekateer signature sprite.pngMoussekateer·talk 11:42, 7 September 2011 (PDT)

Opinion on removing "methods" from the Idling?

Since Valve has pretty much shown they do care about idling very much, I think it may be wise to simply remove the outdated methods section entirely now since they've covered pretty much all the corners. The only exception is the multiple accounts in which players can play more, which is useful for those that have a lot more spare time.

But still, to put it in Valve's terms, it's still talking about giving an unfair advantage and allowing people to bypass the weekly drop limit system (although greatly diminished). What do you think? MajorCooke (talk) 09:45, 30 July 2013 (PDT)

If anything in the methods section is outdated, then yes it would be best to remove it. --Piemanmoo 11:09, 30 July 2013 (PDT)