Template talk:Fmp

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Correcting the dates

Increasing the precision moved the phase calculations to the right months for this year. However, while the dates shown for the "Next" full moon are in the correct month, they are still two days early. Will have to work on it some more late tonight. Mikado282 (talk) 07:06, 1 June 2015 (PDT)

The game's Full Moon event indeed ended some time on June 1, 2015 (before 11:25 UTC), which was before the actual full moon of June 2, 2015 16:19 UTC. So, there is the appearance that the game's event is running on a shorter cycle than the real moon's. I have returned the divisor back from 29.530588853 to the status quo 29.5. However, the Fmp-based calculations led the game's calculations by a noticeable amount, so I would still like to see just when the game event happens in the future. True, not very important, but some people do notice that the game and the wiki do not match the real lunar cycle. Mikado282 (talk) 05:08, 2 June 2015 (PDT)
Previously both the Fmp and game calculation had Full Moon mode ending several hours before the actual full moon. The present Fmp formula had the most recent Full Moon indicated as running from September 25, 2015 at 12 Noon through to September 27, 2015 at 12 Noon (UTC). the actual September full moon was Sep 28, 2015 02:50 (UTC). However, I observed that the September Full Moon mode ran actually rather well-centered on the real full moon; so I suspect that Valve made a correction. I will continue to monitor and will consider setting the divisor back to 29.530588853 if the in-game Full Moon again aligns well with the actual full moon in November. Maybe some of you know better. Mikado282 (talk) 19:04, 9 October 2015 (PDT)
It is clear that since July or August, the recent TF2 Full Moon events have been well centered on the actual full moon, and the original wiki computations are further in error, with respect to Valve’s apparent new schedule.
I haven’t the skills or access to determine whether Valve changed the scale from 29.5 to 29.530588853 or simply added a two-day offset to their computation. I really don’t know which change to the Fmp would be the most conservative. I have changed the scale to 29.530588853 and will monitor to see if it continues to track the game’s schedule. I will make the fork Template:Fmp2 so the historical versions can continue to have the previous dates computed under the original Template:Fmp formula. Mikado282 (talk) 18:56, 24 November 2015 (PST)

I am quite interested in having a working fullmoon calculation myself, as I have some servers that change settings when a fullmoon arrives and so I have been using a python script modeled off of the wiki calculations. As indicated I have found them to be way off. Do you know just when the Novemeber 2015 fullmoon started? I noticed it was up by 16:00 UTC on Nov. 25th, but I have not been checking regularly prior to that. I would be happy to assist if you need any help. Kragacles (talk) 08:37, 25 November 2015 (PST)

It started overnight Kansas time, so some time between 7 and 13 UTC. I have also seen the event changing an join or two either side of 0 UTC. Yes, I needed this morning to add the comment that the new schedule is clearly not aligned on 0 UTC. I would like some collected measurements; but I am taking the long view, I don't need the answer right away. I just wonder if someone knows where Valve actually sets this, for all I know it could be all manual. Mikado282 (talk) 10:59, 25 November 2015 (PST)
Well then I'll help out as best I can by collecting measurements, and see if I can catch when the current one ends. It would be great if we had the answer right from Valve but so far I've never found any information. I suppose I could try the hlds mailing list. Thanks for looking into this! Kragacles (talk) 13:15, 25 November 2015 (PST)
Looks like the new Template:Fmp2 is closer but still leading the game event. Unless we find the Valve schedule, the best we can to is be close -- that is almost good enough for me. ;) . The least I may do is add the actual full moon data to the page. Mikado282 (talk) 14:35, 27 November 2015 (PST)
I agree. It is definitely better; at least you won't miss the fullmoon completely by following the wiki's page. You might as well update the full moon page because Fmp2 is way better than what is up there now. Maybe they are using the proper month scale value now but are clamping it to the nearest 00:00 or 12:00. Either way, thanks for your work! Kragacles (talk) 08:30, 28 November 2015 (PST)
I did update the Full Moon page to Template:Fmc2, but with the changes to date that computation predicted the event closing just before the actual full moon. This phase was changing overnight in CST, so I slept through both ends; but with what I have charted out, the best model right now is that each game Full Moon event is centered on the real full moon, starting about 36 hours ahead and ending 36 hours after. If I nudge the present Fmp2 a day out the present form should fall fully within the new Valve schedule if it holds to that model. That should work for now (if the wiki says the game is in Full Moon, then the game most likely actually is in Full Moon) until we are sure enough to finish the formula.
Checking Template:Fmc2, I figured out how to add the .030588853 into the reconstitution factor. With this change, if I have it right, the Full Moon page should show start and stop dates that better fit within the actual game’s Full Moon start and stop dates, that should do for the time being. Mikado282 (talk) 21:21, 28 November 2015 (PST)
OK, I think I have figured out how to get it done - I am thinking about sandboxing it first, but the earliest would be next weekend. We probably can get it to within an hour of the game's switching if we get confirmation or confident measurement of any regularity in the game's schedule. Mikado282 (talk) 06:20, 30 November 2015 (PST)
Precise computation of the Full Moon schedule is an ancient but complex practice (e.g., Computus, Metonic cycle, Full moon cycle) -- the computation is not beyond a Valve server (assuming they are doing that), but a bit much to do quickly for a wiki page; and the way Full Moon is set up, what is needed is the end of the event anyway. 28.53 is about the average, but the actual length swings roughly 10 hours either way. The approach at this time is to make a 48 hour approximation of the Valve schedule, thinking that it looks better to see the game in Full Moon a bit before and after the wiki, than the other way around. Mikado282 (talk) 07:06, 5 December 2015 (PST)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── This wiki has lua scripting, so it's quite possible to code something complex. However, unless the accuracy of your method is serious, there's nothing wrong with taking a simpler route. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 09:36, 6 December 2015 (PST)

Ah, Lau, Portuguese for moon.  :) It should be clear by now, I’m an old assembly coder learning wiki as a hobby, but this would be a good reason to learn Lau with something simple: Here are formulae to consider. (Note: if it seems I don’t check in much here the last year, I’ve been coding and writing 60-70 hours a week at the office.) There is the temptation of the old assembler trick of a look up table of a few year’s worth of Full Moons from a list somewhere … (even that list is two minutes off of NASA’s) Mikado282 (talk) 20:54, 7 December 2015 (PST)

I agree a good approximation is enough for the wiki page. Definitely all I need for my server scripts. I will be trying to track the next fullmoon start time much more closely in game. But this has definitely been a big improvement so many thanks Kragacles (talk) 13:28, 7 December 2015 (PST)

Actually, I glad it works for you. So, my guess is day and half ahead and after December 25, 11:11 UTC. What’s your 20? Mikado282 (talk) 20:54, 7 December 2015 (PST)

Could we maybe get timezones on these templates?

The chance of someone reading this is already slight, but if I put it on the /nl page and it'll say US times + we don't use 12 hr system when writing so it'll be even more confusing. I could accept US timezones, but I'd prefer if we can choose between 24hr and 12hr.
GrampaSwood (talk) 21:33, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Template:Fmp is the obsolete formula. When I made the 2015 correction, I was pretty new editing. I rev'ed the names to Fmc2 and Fmp2. In retrospect, that might not have been the best way, since the translated pages didn't get the correction automatically. The old templates probably need a more obvious obsolescence tag. Or move the new versions to the old names.
Isn't Fmc2 the template dealing with display of hours, rather than Fmp2?
The #time function might have a simple way to show 12 hour or time zone adjustment (add a parameter(s) to the template). 24H might be a wiki standard?
It is over 12 hours off today, but on average, close.
I would prefer the sinusoidal correction to be done before that, if there is any chance of making the sinusoidal correction more difficult.
M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 12:50, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
This one might be obsolete, but the Template talk for Fmc2 says to go talk here.
GrampaSwood (talk) 12:59, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
eh, er, uh, um, yeah. I did say that. Well, continue.
I have ideas on how to do the sinusoidal correction, but I would want to have a list of the next ten years of Full Moon.
For the time zones, study up on the options of #time.
M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 02:49, 15 August 2019 (UTC)