Difference between revisions of "Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion"

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== Editing big articles ==
 
  
There's a rule about editing articles, that you cannot edit page many times, because it's difficult to work with history. I'd like this rule to be corrected. It's more difficult to edit big articles like "class strategy" in one time, much easier to edit it by parts. [[User:Mendel777|Mendel777]]
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== Dark Mode ==
  
{{discussion close|elsewhere=no}}
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I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
== HL1 Maps that work in TFC: Delete them? ==
 
There's a few articles about Half-Life maps that can be copied over to Team Fortress Classic, and they work: [Boot_camp_(Classic)]], [[Bounce_(Classic)]], and [[Crossfire_(Classic)]], just to name a few. Are these really worth mentioning? I mean... yeah, they work, but a Garry's Mod or Half-Life 2 Deathmatch map could work in Team Fortress 2 as long as the content (textures and models) is either a) part of the HL2 content that's installed with every Orange Box Source Engine game or b) has the content paked into the BSP. Yet we don't mention HL2DM maps that work in TF2. So: do we axe the TFC maps that are ones copied over from HL and work or not? [[File:User RagnarHomsar Userlink.png]] [[User:RagnarHomsar|RagnarHomsar]] 19:55, 4 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:Unless they're directly related to a specific Team Fortress game, in my opinion, they shouldn't be mentioned. [[User:Sven|Sven]] 10:57, 5 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{C|Support}} They are HL maps, not TFC. This wiki is about Team Fortress. {{n}}[[File:User_Heffebaycay_stslogo.png|link=]] [[User:Cructo|Cructo]] <span style="font-size:10px"><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:Cructo|T]]<nowiki>][</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Cructo|C]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></span> 12:06, 18 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Support}} Same as Cructo's reason. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 12:11, 18 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Support}} Get rid of them. Same as Cructo. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 12:14, 18 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Support}} Same as Cructo. Very strong support. [[User:SiPlus|SiPlus]] 06:26, 12 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Support}} why have these here? If users want to know more about a map, they should visit the wiki of the game that the map is from, customs were made for tf/tf2, these were just ripped from other valve games, patched up and slapped in which in my opinion is not tf wiki worthy. '''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 03:59, 25 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{c|comment}} I am sertainly sure we had this discussion before, and decided, that HL maps are threatened as custom maps, because they are widely used on TFC servers. <b>[[User:DrAkcel|<font FACE="Arial" color="#41627E">DrAkcel</font>]]</b> <sup>([[User_talk:DrAkcel|<font FACE="Arial" color="#25587E">T</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/DrAkcel|<font FACE="Arial" color="#25587E">C</font>]])</sup> 09:28, 21 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::Wasn't this for QTF, where there were no official maps? {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 12:12, 22 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::Why should we cover all of them then? [[User:SiPlus|SiPlus]] 06:26, 12 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Disagree}} I already tried to help save the articles because of how they were greatly used on TFC servers. Therefore, my stance is still the same. The maps were used in TFC, they were a part of the history of this game, and it saddens me greatly to see editors like Sven, Cructo and the rest of you just out to destroy history. When <s>that one editor</s> SiPlus tagged them all for deletion ages ago without discussing it with anyone, I repeatedly reverted his labelling for the very reason of saving pieces of history about the lifetime of the Team Fortress series. Lo and behold, here's SiPlus showing very strong support for getting rid of this stuff. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 10:13, 12 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::{{c|Neutral}} {{md}} Perhaps we should document them as custom maps, in the same way we document custom maps for TF2. They are custom content not native to TFC, after all. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 10:19, 12 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::{{c|yes|Agree with i-ghost.}} Indeed. That would be the best route. I already had the [[Team Fortress 2 Alpha]] article I created lose half its images of models get deleted because of a certain POV-pushing user (who will remain unnamed) who made the same "It's from HL/HL2" argument, despite me clarifying that the article was for the specific Alpha that had been leaked. I'm frankly tired of the amount of hatred shown to HL/HL2 content on this wiki, especially seeing as how this is part of the '''VALVE''' Wiki network. So what if we have HL/HL2 content in small portions on the wiki? Maybe the HL/HL2 Wikis have content pertaining to TF2 on their Wikis. '''Stop the hatred'''. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 10:26, 12 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::{{c|Comment}} 404, your article about TF2 Alpha is actually about Half-Life 2 Beta '''mod''' created by Team GabeN, not the actual leaked source code and models. That's why I requested removal of the images. Your Alpha article needs to be rewritten to reflect the real leaked alpha instead of the mod trying to revive it. The only real alpha models leaked are Commando models. And, neither Combine OverWiki nor The Portal Wiki have pages about TF2 maps. [[User:SiPlus|SiPlus]] 03:20, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::::{{c|Comment}} Your reply would've been better off on my talk page, SiPlus. '''Regardless, I've got to work tonight, but when I get home I'll be going through all the HL1-maps-that-work-in-TFC and performing the necessary tasks to class them as "Custom Maps/Custom Content", just like i-ghost suggested. Until that time, I'd appreciate if nobody decided to be a vigilante, and labelled the articles for deletion again.''' In response to SiPlus's hilariously ignorant comment "And, neither Combine OverWiki nor The Portal Wiki have pages about TF2 maps."; Of course the Portal Wiki doesn't have articles for TF2 maps. TF2 maps can't be ported over to Portal/Portal 2. Same goes for the Combine Wiki. Content from TF2 can't be ported over. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to head off to work. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 12:59, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::::{{c|Comment}} We '''don't''' have custom maps in the same navbox as the official ones, and we '''don't''' list custom game modes in [[List of game modes]] (we have separate page for them). And, we must '''not''' cover HL1 maps. HL1 maps should be covered on Half-Life wiki, since they are intended for Half-Life, and not Team Fortress wiki. And, all the articles about HL1 maps on OTFW are '''the same''' except for images in them. We don't need many similar articles. ''We can say in Trivia section of List of game modes (Classic) that some servers run Half-Life maps (or any other maps) without objectives'', but we '''must not''' make articles about them. [[User:SiPlus|SiPlus]] 01:18, 25 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::::{{c|Comment}} One more comment. '''Any''' map without objectives can be played in "deathmatch mode". Half-Life maps are not only deathmatch maps. Counter-Strike maps are played on servers too, but we don't cover them. And, don't compare Half-Life maps to Quake TF maps, they are different cases. [[User:SiPlus|SiPlus]] 01:38, 25 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::I've un-tagged the articles because tomorrow I will finally have enough time to do what i-ghost told me do, that being create a navbox for the articles in question. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 02:16, 25 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::Oh and to SiPlus, incase you didn't know; i-ghost is an admin. If he says to document them as custom content (in specific, a custom navbox, see his talk page, he told me to make one), then that's what I'm doing. And your argument of "Counter Strike maps are played on servers to". Yeah, after they've been sufficiently modified in Hammer to remove any offending entities and such that only work in CS:S and would otherwise cause issues in TF2 ''(I'm a mapper too, I know my shit.)''. Therefore, CS:S maps in use in TF2 are technically no longer CS:S maps. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 02:22, 25 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::I mean CS, not CS:S. I've never seen any server playing CS:S map in TF2. And, these maps are not custom maps, they are Half-Life maps. I don't think we should cover a map on our wiki if it's played on 2-3 servers with retarded admins. And stop making me edit boost. And, [[Custom maps|this page]] doesn't describe any maps from Half-Life 2: DM, CS: Source or DoD: Source. '''Also, we don't even have an article about cp_orange_x, which is alot more popular than all Half-Life maps together''', so I see no reason for having articles about them. [[User:SiPlus|SiPlus]] 03:28, 25 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::Then why don't you knock off the biased POV and go and make an article for cp_orange_x, but only if you can find a good source that proves it's popularity. Did the devs talk about cp_orange_x? That would be a '''good''' source, and a good reason to start an article. Regardless, the pages are re-labelled and documented as custom content, which is what i-ghost suggested. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 12:17, 25 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::::Even though you relabelled them, the discussion is still open. '''''We need a moderator.''''' [[User:SiPlus|SiPlus]] 00:13, 26 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::May I remind you, my friend, that i-ghost is an administrator here. I personally tend to listen to what the administrators say, and do as they say to do. i-ghost suggested documenting them as custom content, which is what I have done. Frankly, I am getting quite tired of listening to your heavily biased opinions on this matter. And your constant attempts to go over everyone's head and quickly label everything for deletion, despite this discussion still being open ''(your words, not mine)'', have become a source of amusement for me. On one hand, we have you rushing around, labelling everything for deletion. Perhaps you thought because I work full time, I wouldn't notice your rampant labelling. I noticed. On the other hand, we have you here, preaching about the discussion still being open. If this discussion is still open, then why would you go around labelling all the articles for deletion? I still haven't figured out your ''modus operandi'', but I assure you that I will soon enough. I'll end this pathetic excuse for a discussion with that. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 00:41, 26 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::: may i remind YOU that an administrators word is not the only word, the administrators of the wiki go with a general community decision. I do however respect i-ghosts point, what i do not like is that fact that you ignore the wiki community, what they have stated and the opinions they have clearly presented here. '''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 00:50, 26 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
:::: You're brave with your assumptions. I'll give you that, my boy. However, I'd like to address one statement you've made, as well as clarify my response to SiPlus a little bit. In response to your statement; '''"what i do not like is that fact that you ignore the wiki community, what they have stated and the opinions they have clearly presented here."'''. I have not ignored the community. I really don't like being accused of things I haven't done, you see. But yes, the community overwhelmingly voted to get rid of the articles ''(and go figure, SiPlus voted to delete them. who'da thunk it?)'', but an administrator stepped in and suggested the articles be documented. In an effort to keep some content of historical value on this wiki, especially about such popular maps from the days of TFC ''(most of which I used when I ran a TFC server ages ago)'', I went with what i-ghost suggested. Now, to clarify/simplify my response to SiPlus. What I'm pointing out is that SiPlus originally labelled all the articles for deletion ages ago without consensus or even talking to anyone about it before doing so. His edits were quickly reverted. Now he's gone and done it again and I reverted his edits and retooled the articles. I stated days ago that I was going to retool them, but seeing as how I work full time, I didn't have spare time to do so until last night, which is when I noticed SiPlus went rogue again. In an effort, which I can only see was to either intimidate me or ''try'' to get his biased point of view across, he's stated that despite my reworking of the articles, '''this discussion is still open'''. Now wait a minute. Do I detect a hint of hypocrisy? By jove, I think I do! If this discussion is still open, who gave SiPlus the authority/go-ahead to re-label the articles for deletion? The hypocrisy! Oh god, the hypocrisy! It's killing me! '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 01:12, 26 October 2011 (PDT)
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:Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
  
::::: As you say it's a community so no one needs to ask before they edit, nor be given 'the go-ahead'. If there are problems with people undoing and edit warring then the mods will take care of it. Again, since it is a community wiki, just because i-ghost or any other mod states an opinion on a topic like this about page content, doesn't suddenly mean it should be accepted as-is. It is just an opinion. That being said, I don't think there are enough opinions here to delete any images or pages yet, since both sides feel quite strongly. [[user:seb26|<small style="background:#f9f9f9;border:1px solid #0070FF;padding:0em 0.5em;color:#000;-webkit-box-shadow:2px 1px 1px #8BBEFF;">'''seb26'''</small>]] 01:25, 26 October 2011 (PDT)
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== Valve Store ==
  
Well thank you for shining some light on that seb. And I apologize if it looked like I thought Lexar was trying to intimidate me or what-have-you. The initial response of "may i remind YOU", with the capitalized YOU seemed like Lexar was either trying to intimidate me or act tough. Anywho, onto the real reason for this post.
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The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
This discussion is the perfect example of why this discussion board is '''useless'''. Many discussions have gone down the wrong path because '''not very many people participate in the discussions that are posted here'''. Look at my discussion about adding collapsibility further down this page. Nobody has responded to it. Same for my Editor Review suggestions. This discussion is travelling down the wrong path because we have 4 people who want to get rid of these articles of historical value to TFC players like myself, and I'm the only one voting against deletion, with i-ghost showing some support against deletion by suggesting the pages be documented as custom content.
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:Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
I will be starting a new discussion sometime tomorrow about diversifying this discussion board and possibly adding Wikipedia-like discussion boards such as "Articles for Deletion" ''(or maybe "Content for Deletion" to make the board for categories, templates, pages, etc, instead of just articles)''. We also need a Dispute Resolution board ''(again, take notes from Wikipedia)'', in my opinion.
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== Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal ==
  
Any way, to end this reply: I feel that SiPlus jumped the gun when he re-labelled the articles for deletion, especially after I expressed the fact that I would be creating a custom navbox for the articles, and specifically asked that '''no-one label anything for deletion'''. I checked the Wiki at work during my break the other day and noticed he went and labelled everything, so when I got home from work that night I had to revert all his labelling again. I'm going to get some sleep now. I'm off today ''(Wednesday)'' and Thursday, so expect to hear from me immediately if my name is said. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 02:38, 26 October 2011 (PDT)
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Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL]. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes ([[Cotton Head]], [[Brotherhood of Arms]], etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): [https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT]. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: [https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG]. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
:Then why don't we have article about de_dust2? It's popular TFC "custom" map. (I'm not going to make it by myself.) [[User:SiPlus|SiPlus]] 05:59, 26 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::Well ''Pinocchio'', if you don't make it by yourself, you're never going to be turned into a real editor by the ''Blue Wiki Fairy'', and ''Gepetto'' is going to throw you into the '''wood chipper'''. Seriously, if you think the article should be made, start the article up, put as much info in it as you know, and let other people finish it up. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 15:34, 26 October 2011 (PDT)
 
{{discussion close|end|elsewhere=no}}
 
  
== Paint Pages ==
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:I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
Hello everyone. One day I've tried to make a page for every single paint, like this: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Dark_Salmon_Injustice&action=historysubmit&diff=362725&oldid=249546
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== Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model ==
  
Why do I want this? I meet people everyday, who found a single paint. They have 8-9 hats and they want to know, what to paint. And here is the problem. Not all the countries has fast internet connection. If I have 1 Scout hat and 1 paint, I have to load 578 pictures of hat. And that's just one class! Now I need to open another class and find there my hats and a single paint. Basic [List of Paintable Items] is cool, when you have only 1 hat and lots of paints, but this is a rare situation. If I found Salmon Injustice, I'd better look at all Salmon hats, instead of all possibilities.
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Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the [[Soldier's Stash]], [[Horrible Horns]] on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin ([[Texas Half-Pants]], [[Millennial Mercenary]]'s Streaming 2Fort style, [[Exquisite Rack]], [[Battle Bob]]'s With Helmet style, [[Bacteria Blocker]]'s Headphones style, etc).
  
The point is, that there are so many hats, and not so many paints. That page in history is completely unfinished (I've began it in February, without any Wiki editing knowledge). Make [Hide] tablets for classes and here it is: we have comfortable paint system (and trivia about every can, without summarizing).
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Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on [[Decorated Veteran]] since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).
  
I hope you will think about it. I have these pages ready on 80%. [[Paint Can]] page could be shrink and there will be two lists - one is comfortable for those who have a lot of paint, and those, who have only 1 can.    (I'll watch the answers 7 hours later - 2 am here)                [[User:GordonFrohman|GordonFrohman]] 12:16, 5 September 2011 (PDT)
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Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.
:Well this causes a lot of work. Creating the pages and translating every page into every language. But most of all, whenever a new hat is released, you'll have to update every paint + translation. [[File:User_SackZement_signature.gif|link=User:SackZement]][[User:SackZement|<span style="font-size:14px;font-family: Tf2 Build"><font color="orange">SackZement]]</font></span> [[User_talk:SackZement|&lt;Talk&gt;]] 12:31, 5 September 2011 (PDT)
 
  
:So difficult... I think I will be able to do it. [[User:GordonFrohman|GordonFrohman]] 22:53, 5 September 2011 (PDT)
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Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.
  
:We already have pages that list every hat in whatever paint colour. Click the class icons under the "Paintable item previews" section on the [[Paint Can#Paintable_item_previews|Paint Can]] page. -[[User:RJackson|<span class="modbg" style="margin-right:1px;text-shadow: #538237 1px 1px 0px;">RJ</span>]] 13:24, 5 September 2011 (PDT)
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Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The [[Mann-Bird of Aberdeen]] looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like [[Team Captain]] for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: [https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0 https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0]). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
:Stop posting that link, I've already told everything about it. It has giant amount of hats and paints I don't have. I have several hats and only 1 paint and don't want to look through 600 hats per class for using 1 paint  [[User:GordonFrohman|GordonFrohman]] 22:53, 5 September 2011 (PDT)
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:I would support every page having both team colours.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
:: Do many people, let alone people who play and are interested in TF2, have such slow Internet that 40 or so small PNG files take a toll on their speed? [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 13:57, 5 September 2011 (PDT)
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== Articles for individual environmental hazards ==
::: While it certainly looks pretty, I think it's going to be a bit too much trouble for what it's worth, what with all the Translating/Adding in new content things (and since there's a paintable hat added almost every 2 weeks...). It's redundant as well, considering we've got [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/List_of_paintable_items_(Scout) these kinds of pages]. Yes, I understand that you said "I have to load 578 pictures of hat", but, like Ballad said, in this day and age of internet, I don't think people who play TF2 worry much about small images loading up. If it's really that much of a concern, then why not just go to the respective hat's page and look at the painted variants there? [[File:User Wingless Winged Signature.png|150px|link=User:Wingless]] 15:31, 5 September 2011 (PDT)
 
  
:And that's what people do. Open every single hat's page is way more comfortable, than use list of paintable items. I am painting every single hat in Lime and Defeat, I've found an extra can I now I am thinking what to paint. I had to look through 4386 pictures of hats, instead of 10. And Lime is in the very beginning of the list. My friend is painting all his hats in Team Spirit. He have to scroll down to every single class and look at all possible color varieties, except the color at the very end. And yeah, in some Russian cities is very slow internet, cause we're not that rich to afford good connection. We can't even fix the roads on the streets, and you're talking about extra-fast inetrnet. I don't think that you know how is it to download TF2 update for whole night. [[User:GordonFrohman|GordonFrohman]] 22:53, 5 September 2011 (PDT)
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Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: [[Ghost]], [[Pumpkin bomb]], [[Saw blade]], and [[Train]].
  
:::: Saying you need to load up 578 pictures just to know how to use your paint is ridiculous. The only reason that would possibly happen is if you owned EVERY Scout hat. Most people only have a few hats, some of which aren't even paintable. If you have paint that you want to use, you only ever need to consider the few hats you own. The people that actually feel they absolutely need to see as many painted hats as possible can always direct themselves to the previously mentioned [[:Category:Lists_of_paintable_items|Lists of paintable items]]. Any other pages would be entirely redundant. -- [[Image:User Alex2539 Sig.png|47px|link=User:Alex2539|Alex2539]] - {{mod}} <sub>([[User_talk:Alex2539|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Alex2539|contribs]])</sub> -- 22:12, 5 September 2011 (PDT)
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These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "''[Train horn noises]''". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the [[Environmental death]] article.
  
:578 - amount of pictured hats in that Scout List. I want to make dedicated page for every can. You're right, we have few hats, but amount of paint is even less, isn't it? I want to look, what can I do with this paint with some of my hats, neither all other paints nor other hats. Searching for a hat I have in hats list is even more useful, rather than using that Paintable List. (Stop posting links to that list. Didn't you read what I think of it?) [[User:GordonFrohman|GordonFrohman]] 22:53, 5 September 2011 (PDT)
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I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to [[Pitfall]].
::::: What I meant is it's not unreasonable to simply open the articles for the hats you want to see painted. The current paint galleries are meant for doing exactly this. I think your initial example of trying to compare 8 or 9 hats is in fact a pretty typical situation, and loading 8 or 9 tabs is not unwieldy at all. Certainly not for anyone that has both a computer and an internet connection both strong enough to play TF2. Adding a page for every colour of paint would mean 27 new pages, all of which would need to be maintained when a new hat is added, all of which would need to be translated and none of which would provide any additional value to the Wiki beyond a minor convenience. I simply don't see pages like this being worth the long term effort. -- [[Image:User Alex2539 Sig.png|47px|link=User:Alex2539|Alex2539]] - {{mod}} <sub>([[User_talk:Alex2539|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Alex2539|contribs]])</sub> -- 01:59, 6 September 2011 (PDT)
 
  
I don't think we should be assuming everyone viewing the wiki is also someone who plays TF2, nor that they use the same computer or internet connection to view the wiki at all times. Nevertheless I think creating new separate pages would be time-consuming for limited benefit. It would make sense for a site that can dynamically-generate content and sort it in different ways but trying to recreate that here would be difficult and not worth it. [[user:seb26|<small style="background:#f9f9f9;border:1px solid #0070FF;padding:0em 0.5em;color:#000;-webkit-box-shadow:2px 1px 1px #8BBEFF;">'''seb26'''</small>]] 02:29, 6 September 2011 (PDT)
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As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:
 +
* Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
 +
* Create a separate page for that (similar to the [[Item timeline]] pages).
 +
* Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).
  
: I suspect that most people wont have all those hats, and even more likely is that they won't want to paint all their hats in one colour. Also, its best to be able to compare different paint jobs when they are right next to each other. So unless someone had a lot of hats and dedicated themselves to one colour it whoulden't be much use and as pointed out, it whould be a lot of work. [[User:Mysterious Island|Mysterious Island]] 06:16, 23 September 2011 (PDT)
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I am ok with [[Skeletons]] and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).
  
::I believe this paint pages idea is great, i hope they use it. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Son Of Bazzar|Son Of Bazzar]]''' ([[User talk:Son Of Bazzar|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Son Of Bazzar|contribs]]) </small>
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Opinions? - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
  
== Misc. Items 1st Person "Bug" ==
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:I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to [[List of game modes]], where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
  
From the [[Essential Accessories]] page:
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:: I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by {{code|<nowiki>== Section title ==</nowiki>}}) would be a "complete" article.<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* Like the Rogue's Col Roule, Purity Fist, and Pip-Boy, the wristbands of the Essential Accessoriese are invisible to the player in first-person view.
 
  
Is this REALLY a bug? If it had properly rigged viewmodels and they are supposed to be called but aren't loaded, yeah I'd call it a bug. But there are no viewmodels for any of these weapons. It's not so much a bug as an art mistake/Valve not having enough time for the promos. Should we remove these "bugs"? [[File:User RagnarHomsar Userlink.png]] [[User:RagnarHomsar|RagnarHomsar]] 21:09, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
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== A request ==
:Well, the Rogue's Col Roule isn't a promo. It was community made, so seeing as Valve didn't try to make anything for them, that's important. However, the Gunslinger and shields all show up in first person. Maybe this is a misc problem, but we should ask Valve first about this. [[File:Painted_Vintage_Merryweather_803020.png|24px|link=User talk:Fyahweather]][[User:Flamborsia|<span style="text-shadow:orange 0px 0px 3px;"><font color="#FF6600"><tt><big><u>'''Fyahweather'''</u></big></tt></font></span>]] 21:11, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:: The only thing I have against this is that the shields and Gunslinger are both weapons, and therefore pretty much have to have viewmodels in order to look right. Like I said, a bug would be if the viewmodels existed and are supposed to be loaded but aren't due to a programming error. This is just a lack of a viewmodel asset. Not really a bug so much as an oversight. [[File:User RagnarHomsar Userlink.png]] [[User:RagnarHomsar|RagnarHomsar]] 21:13, 13 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:::The Gunslinger is an entirely different, dedicated arm model with a cloned animation set. This is to aid in Gunslinger/Short Circuit combos, so the Gunslinger isn't actually ever attached like the Targe (whether or not it qualifies as a bug if the Targe doesn't attach with certain items drawn is a different discussion entirely). Go ahead and remove them, they aren't bugs, there are no first person or attachable assets for those cosmetic items. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 12:14, 2 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::Its a great idea!!! <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Son Of Bazzar|Son Of Bazzar]]''' ([[User talk:Son Of Bazzar|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Son Of Bazzar|contribs]]) </small>
 
  
== Naming crate series for stock weapons ==
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In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because [[Classic]] and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
  
I was just wondering, since the introduction of strange weapons, even stock items have been in crates. Instead of saying items are not in crates, could we instead list what crate strange versions of that weapon are in with a footnote (or whatever) saying that it's only available as a strange weapon? [[User:DVDV|DVDV]] 00:58, 19 September 2011 (PDT)
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:If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use <nowiki>{{ucfirst:<string>}}</nowiki> to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, <nowiki>{{ucfirst:hello world}}</nowiki> generates {{ucfirst:hello world}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
  
:This is already being accomplished by putting 'Uncrate (#X) (Strange)' in Availability, next to 'Stock', like every Strange weapon. This is located in the item infobox to the left. [[User:Shane Alvarado|Shane Alvarado]] 12:38, 22 September 2011 (PDT)
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::Could you help me with this? I've changed it in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
  
== Reload types for specific weapons ==
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:::Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{tl|lang}} template instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
  
Nixshadow and myself were having a bit of a disagreement over this one. For weapons such as the sniper rifle and the flare gun (And all of their variants), I argue that these weapons should be listed as "no reload" rather than "single", since they don't actually have a clip at all on screen, and the animations are merely cosmetic. That is, you can switch away from these weapons immediately after firing and later on switch back and you won't need to see the reload animation (Unlike say, the crusader's crossbow, whose reload must be seen in full because it has a clip indicator). The issue might be confusing however as this would put it in the same category as the minigun and flamethrower, from a scripting point of view they're the same (save for a much longer delay between shots) but aesthetically they behave quite differently. Opinions? --[[User:Manta|Manta]] 01:55, 19 September 2011 (PDT)
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::::[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3408072&oldid=3388990 I already did it once and...] [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
:I would say they have no reload time, but rather long attack intervals. An example with the rocket launcher, if you fire a rocket and immediately switch to something else for a while then back to the rocket launcher, you can fire another rocket immidiately after weapon switch time is over so long as you still have ammo in your clip. If there is no ammo in your clip, you must reload before you can fire again. Neither the flaregun or sniper rifle require you to reload but you still need to wait for the attack interval before you can shoot again. Another example, the minigun has no reload and picking up ammo lets you use the ammo immidiately. In the case of the rocket launcher or shotgun you still need to reload before you can use it. The huntsman is one of the more confusing weapons, but I think it has a very short reload time. [[User:RedMage|RedMage]] 02:12, 20 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::I whould also have to agree that they have no reload time, but just to make it clear as posible, there should also be a page explaining that it has no reload time and that the reloading animation is part of the display of an attack interval, and how the reloading annimation is a pure cosmetic feature. Just so people understand that they are the same as the minigun and flamethrower in how ammo is fired. [[User:Mysterious Island|Mysterious Island]] 02:54, 20 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:::Instead of a separate page, wouldn't a single sentence on the relevant articles explaining this be more neat?, e.g. "Whilst visually the weapons is reloaded between each shot, this is merely cosmetic, all that is required to fire the weapon again is a certain length of time to pass (Switching weapons does not influence this length of time)". Maybe a bit long winded.[[User:Manta|Manta]] 03:48, 20 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::::It really doesn't reload, but I don't believe the word "cosmetic" fits that sentence well. "Although this weapon doesn't reload, it has an attack interval between each shot" would suit better, but somewhat unnecessary, since this characteristic is already noted in the "Damage and function times" table. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 13:18, 20 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::::: Eh... the weapons sort of reload, it's just that the animation time can be completed even if the weapon is not the current weapon. Where this gets real dicey is with the Huntsman and Crossbow, which don't reload while switched out, despite being single loaded weapons. I think it should be noted on the pages it applies to, but I also think it should be noted on pages where it looks like it could apply, but doesn't (like the Crossbow). [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 14:14, 20 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::: The animation for the sniper rifle and flaregun is for attack intervals, not reloading. To prove my point, touching the supply cabinet effectively removes the need to reload. When you fire say a rocket launcher 4 times then immediately go to a supply cabinet, you don't fire immediately and you still have to wait for the attack intervals, but you skip the animation of the soldier putting rockets in. In the case of the sniper rifle and flaregun, they are both completely unchanged by touching the cabinet; you still need to wait for the pyro to put a flare in and for the sniper to pull the lever before you can shoot. You can "reload" while switching weapons because attack intervals are counting down alongside weapon switch time, which applies to every weapon. Reload time does not count alongside weapon switch time; if you attempt to reload then switch to another weapon before it finishes, the reload time resets. [[User:RedMage|RedMage]] 00:39, 21 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:So we're agreed that these weapons are no-reload types then? --[[User:Manta|Manta]] 01:43, 21 September 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Generel Crafting in article? ==
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:::::Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{tl|lang incomplete}}?<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
  
Just read that the Pilotka and the Stahlhelm is now craftable, but I didn't saw any recipe for it. Then I remembered that this must be a generel recipe for craft with a class token. I just thought that it could be maybe added, because not all people know how to craft a personal class hat. I also know that the chance of getting that hat is really low because there are many other(don't know the exact number), but couldn't it be listed. Maybe someone coult programm it to look like that:
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::::::I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3584139&oldid=3583139 this edit]? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Stahlhelm (1/(all hats))% chance of getting, and then if you click you get the list of the other soldier hats you could get.
 
or
 
1x Stahlhelm / (all hats number) ; and if you click on all hats number you would see all the other hats.
 
  
The way it is now it is a bit to uninformational for most of the people, you go strictly to the crafting page but there is not enough attention to the class hat crafting. Hope someone get's my idea. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor(without a small pic)]] 04:48, 22 September 2011 (PDT)
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{{Outdent|6}}Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link <nowiki>[[VintageVintage]]</nowiki>.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
: So you're suggesting that every hat page list every hat recipe and a chance of obtaining it through individual crafting recipes? seems rather unnecessary. Right now only set hats have this on their pages, because they have specific recipes that almost guarantee you the hat. [[User:RedMage|RedMage]] 14:52, 22 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::I think he's suggesting that clicking on "craft" in the item infobox under the "Availability" section should lead you to a section on the crafting page which explains this better. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]'''·'''[[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 14:56, 22 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:::Yeah, Cooper Kid is right, can't we make it different for hats to get to class hat crafting then generell? [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor(without a small pic)]] 02:42, 23 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::::I think the fact that if a page doesn't have a crafting blueprint, it should be implied...that it doesn't have a blueprint. You could probably add a tool tip next to crafting (Not on it, as it's a link and that messes up tooltips.) i.e: [[Crafting]] {{tooltip|(?)|Random Hat Fabrication}}
 
::::Though I am personally against that and think it should be obvious enough if we don't supply a crafting recipe, that it doesn't have one. - http://i.imgur.com/6vKcd.png[[User:Nixshadow|<span style="text-shadow:#869 0 0 5px; color:#a8b;"><u>nixshadow</u>]]</span> <span style="text-shadow:#859 0 0 5px; color:#a8b">([[User talk:Nixshadow|t]]|[[Special:Contributions/Nixshadow|c]])</span> 02:53, 23 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::If there is no recipe, you can't craft it that's what i think, and if there stands craft it is kinda confusing for new guys. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor(without a small pic)]] 03:09, 23 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::::::Why not make a new page called [[Random crafting recipes]] with a list of all possible recipes, just as a reference for new users? '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]'''·'''[[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 03:55, 23 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::::Would be good, but is there a well known symbol for random in the world? Maybe like this then: (random symbol) craft! And then a redirect to the page. I would love to see an article only about hats you can't get because there is no specific blueprint. This would help a lot more then the redirect to crafting alone and you get lost. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor(without a small pic)]] 04:12, 23 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::::::::How about something like [[User:Cooper Kid/Random crafting recipes|this]]? '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]'''·'''[[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 04:54, 23 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::::::I would say: Wow! You put a lot of great work into that and i would love to see this linked to random class hats, instead of generell Crafting. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor(without a small pic)]] 15:01, 23 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::::::::::Thanks a lot! It shouldn't be too hard to do - we'll just need to edit the links in the infoboxes on each hat page in question. I'll need to talk to someone higher up to make sure my page is ok first though. In the meantime, I'll try and get it finished! '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 03:30, 24 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::::::::::: Just a note, the Flip-Flops and Lucky 42 are not craftable. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 07:28, 24 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::::::::thanks, I've fixed that. The page is pretty much done now, I'll leave it for a bit but if there aren't any objections I'll set the ball rolling sometime tomorrow. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 14:52, 24 September 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Unsure: Proof of Purchase where to? ==
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== Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history ==
  
I saw the Meet the Medic video again and in the end you can see the proof of purchase on one dead soldier(3:36). I don't see that mentioned anywhere. Someone could add that in the Proof of Purchase or, or and, in the Meet the Medic article. I'm not sure enough where it could be placed best, hope someone can make that. Thanks in advance. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor(without a small pic)]] 19:08, 23 September 2011 (PDT)
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I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. [[User:The American Boot|The American Boot]] ([[User talk:The American Boot|talk]]) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
:The general concensus is that anything you can plainly see isn't worth noting - the same was said of the Soldiers wearing some of the new Uber Update hats in that part of the video as well. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 05:04, 24 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::The new star hat was mentioned, and it is clearly visible. The proof of purchase is shorter seem and smaller. Maybe a picture on the proof of purchase gallery then? [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor(without a small pic)]] 05:35, 24 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::: Here is a picture, and maybe someone thinks that it is noteworthy: [http://picspy.info/images/76696686082453740531.png Click me i'm a picture link] . [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor(without a small pic)]] 08:52, 24 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::::Where is that other hat mentioned? They discussed it on the [[Talk:Meet the Medic|talk page]] but decided it wasn't really worth noting. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 13:07, 24 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::You are right. I thought it should be mentioned and totally missed the point. What do you think about this: A picture of it like shown above in the gallery of the proof or purchase then? [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor(without a small pic)]] 02:28, 25 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::::::Trivia section? [[User:Rolandius|Rolandius]] 06:11, 27 September 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Cleaning up Beta/Unused content ==
+
:If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed [[Help:Style_guide/Trivia|Trivia guild]].[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
  
It seems when reading [[Unused content|those pages]], most of the content is "this item may have been" or "it's likely this weapon did this" however, we just don't know that as a fact, and we shouldn't be stating it as such. I think we need to look at them and revise most of them to not be filled with speculation. The articles should only contain what we know as fact, and not what we assume the weapon's function was. On another note, many of the unused weapon articles have "demonstration videos" which is basically a video of someone's mod who recreated the assumed stats of the weapon. I don't feel like these belong on the wiki, unless we make them ourselves. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 16:24, 25 September 2011 (PDT)
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:I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The [[Art Pass Contest]] page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
:{{c|Agree|Agreed}} Assumptions are never okay. As for the videos, unless they are made by us or valve then they really should't be there. [[File:User_M-NINJA_Signature.png|link=User:M-NINJA]] 16:34, 25 September 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Currently unreleased content medals forgotten? ==
+
== Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts ==
  
I just read the [[ESL|ESL article]] today and wondered over this sentences: "Valve will be offering '''in-game medals''' to all participants. You will need to play your matches and finish the season." Then i wanted to know how the medals look like and i moved to the [[Currently unreleased content]] article because i didn't saw a link to the medal. And now i'm confused. There is no picture of a medal, and it isn't mentioned at all there. Did Valve refused the ESL request or what happened? [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor(without a small pic)]] 04:47, 27 September 2011 (PDT)
+
I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the [[Lollichop]], which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the [[Third Degree]] and [[Neon Annihilator]], which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the [[Cow Mangler 5000]], [[Scottish Resistance]], and [[Ullapool Caber]], which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the [[Vita-Saw]], which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.  
:Valve is really slow with adding medals to the game, with other competitive medals sometimes taking a year before being released. It will be even less likely that they will be added to the game files soon if the competition hasn't ended yet. And as long as Valve doesn't add the models, we can't create images for them either. -- <span style="font-family:TF2 Build;font-size:90%;">[[File:Killicon train.png|40px|link=User:Hefaistus]] [[User:Hefaistus|<font color="#FF9933">Hefaistus</font>]]</span> - [[User talk:Hefaistus|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]] 06:02, 27 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::I remember there being a link in that article to an [http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3300848/kaikkee/technology.png email] from Robin Walker referring to the medals. Check it out. [[User:Rolandius|Rolandius]] 06:08, 27 September 2011 (PDT)
 
:::I read more about it and found out that the ESL promised for 2 seasons medals. Also your email only covers highlander. ESL said normal 6vs6 medals. But I get it: Valve Time ; thanks for the Infos. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor(without a small pic)]] 23:07, 27 September 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Engineer Community Strategy Cleanup ==
+
I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.
  
Have a look at [[Community Engineer strategy|This]]. I can't imagine this being useful to anyone reading the wiki looking for useful information. I'd personally like to gut the entire written content from it and start over because I feel it would be simpler than trying to make sense and order of this wall of text. --[[User:Manta|Manta]] 00:52, 28 September 2011 (PDT)
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Speaking of the [[Pyro taunts]] page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
  
:I agree. I've been looking at some of the community strategy pages, and they are very text-heavy with few breaks and also contain a lot of jargon. Perhaps some images may be sourced to both explain some of the more difficult strategies, and also to free up some room? All I know is that these pages are somewhat confusing and intimidating for readers. --[[User:Vorsprung|Vorsprung]] 17:49, 22 October 2011 (AEST)
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:I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
  
:{{c|-}}Personally, I always thought the Community Strategy pages as an unorganized mass of text to read and hopefully get something out of. Somebody [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Community_Medic_strategy&action=historysubmit&diff=783826&oldid=780720 already "cleaned up" the Community Medic Strategy page], and he removed lots of information that I found useful, as his bias of unconventional strategy unfortunately led him to shrinking down the page to about the length of [[Basic Medic strategy]]. I, personally, disagree with "starting over", as I have learned much from these pages, but I am neutral for rewriting it/eliminating redundancy. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 08:24, 22 October 2011 (PDT)
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== Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization ==
  
:Look, I don't think it's about re-writing the pages. Far from it: the information in the pages is useful, but I just think that tweaking the layout or adding some images or diagrams in would solve the problem. Really, the text just needs to be broken up a bit... Give it better reading gravity, you know? To start over would be a waste of time, in my opinion. In short, the info's good, but the layout ain't. --[[User:Vorsprung|Vorsprung]] 19:10, 26 October 2011 (AEST)
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'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
  
:Given the...girth..of community strategy, it would be a huge job to completely moderate it. Going over and revising the Basic Strategy and Match-up pages took up a significant portion of my time, and is a reason I've refrained from doing anything major in Community Strategy. While some may say (and may be correct) that Community Strategy needs revisions, but such a job requires coordinated manpower, beyond that of two or three editors. -- [[User:InShane|InShane]] 19:43, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
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:See [[Template:Dictionary/common_strings#.5BMain_Page.5D_Smissmas_2023|Dictionary common strings]].<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
  
:Honestly I think they're called "Community" is because they resemble more of a board or forum. A relatively unorganized collection/mass of everyone's ideas. Not disregarding any strategies.<small>*cough*</small> Just a page to read to obtain every tidbit of strategy possible. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 19:51, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
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:: Thanks. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
  
== Clarification of Resupply ==
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== Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work ==
  
This is getting a bit annoying to see. In some instances pages will refer to the spawn cabinets as 'the Resupply Cabinet', yet in other instances it is called 'the Resupply Locker'. Could we get some discussion and voting on what the correct name is? Consistency, after all, is important.--<span style="color:purple">'''''[[User:Focusknock|Focusknock]]'''''</span> 06:01, 28 September 2011 (PDT)
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[[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_Wiki:Wiki_Birthday#Official.E2.84.A2_Team_Fortress_Energy_Drink]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]]''' ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Nonolemage|contribs]]) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC</small>
:"As a Sniper, the Razorback breaks after being stabbed. Grab a new one from a '''resupply locker'''". Thats from STS. -- [[User:Keisari|Keisari]] [[File:BottleScreen.png|24px|link=User_talk:Keisari]] 06:05, 28 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::I have found that consistency isn't important to a lot of people as I have run into a lot of circumstances like the one you mentioned. In regards to this subject, I have been told that 'the Resupply locker' is the way to reference it. [[User:Rolandius|Rolandius]] 09:31, 28 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::: No point to vote on what the correct name is.  Valve refers to it as a couple different things, but I told Rolandius and choose to edit with "Resupply locker" as that is what the file name is for it when you're making a map.  Also, the [[Respawn]] page gallery lists them all as lockers.  Neither one is wrong, and we don't need to make it a this-way-or-no-way thing. [[User:SS2R|SS2R]] 03:06, 29 September 2011 (PDT)
 
::::By the way, what is "STS"? [[User:Rolandius|Rolandius]] 22:33, 12 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::STS stands for [http://translation.steampowered.com/index.php Steam Translation Server], where users can sign up to help translate Steam and Valve games into their own language. -- <span style="font-family:TF2 Build;font-size:90%;">[[File:Killicon train.png|40px|link=User:Hefaistus]] [[User:Hefaistus|<font color="#FF9933">Hefaistus</font>]]</span> - [[User talk:Hefaistus|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]] 01:33, 13 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== ÜberCharge rate demonstration ==
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:Please sign your messages using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
 +
:The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
  
I brought this up yesterday in IRC, in that there is no solid demonstration (akin to the [[jumping]] demonstrations, etc) showing damage sources and their relation in building ÜberCharge, stemming from beliefs that I have heard from many players that damage does not help your Medic build ÜberCharge faster, despite it stating otherwise on articles such as the [[Medigun]]. This is a myth that has had roots in the TF2 community for a long time. So as a result, here's me as the Heavy, [[User:Keisari|Keisari]] as the Soldier and the star of the show [[User:Cthulhu1992|Cthulhu1992]] as the Medic in our bid for a video we think should be posted on the [[ÜberCharge]] article as demonstration material: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVw5jbEe0ng
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== Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc ==
  
I will upload the source file to my FTP for the TF2 Wiki Youtube account's official use, if desired. However, I noticed there were jumping demonstration videos that are not on the official account and embedded in the jumping article anyway. I'm not 100% sure on protocol regarding this type of stuff. Thoughts? <span style="color:black">~</span>'''[[User:Xenaero|Xenaero]]''' <small>( [[User_talk:Xenaero|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Xenaero|C]] )</small> 08:22, 28 September 2011 (PDT)
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Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:
  
:This video would be 100x better and more to the point if you just showed things side by side.  On the left, healing with no damage being done, and on the right, healing with damage being done.  That will give a live representation of the damage-Uber building up faster MUCH better.  Check the [[Original]] demonstration video to see what I mean.  Side by side is really the way to go. [[User:SS2R|SS2R]] 03:00, 29 September 2011 (PDT)
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<hr>
  
::Valid suggestion. How is this, then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXoqX2PauZg <span style="color:black">~</span>'''[[User:Xenaero|Xenaero]]''' <small>( [[User_talk:Xenaero|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Xenaero|C]] )</small> 17:14, 30 September 2011 (PDT)
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1) Implement a way on the {{code|Item infobox}} template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:
Shouldn't you also note that it does not apply during set up time, as set up time causes the maximum rate of uber, or no? [[User:Smurfton|Smurfton]] 17:48, 17 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== beating a dead horse: TF2 Wiki and googlebombing ==
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a) The Heavy variant of the [[Team Captain]] only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: [https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z]. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.
  
so when searching for "tf2 wiki" the first site that pops up is tf2wiki.net
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b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of [[Close Quarters Cover]], include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: [https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME].
  
we need to fix this. lots of newcomers to tf2 are being directed to an outdated and poorly managed site full of opinion, speculation and misinformation.
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c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the [[Dead Little Buddy]] have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: [https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO].
  
i've brought this up before and been told "there's nothing we can do", but that is obviously not true. its called google bombing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_bomb , and it's how you change the results of a google search.
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d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the [[Jumper's Jeepcap]] would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like [[Mustachioed Mann]], would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like [[Carl]] that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.
  
as you can see here: http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/kzo9u/this_really_bugs_me/ the Team Fortress 2 community is aware of and upset by this fact. at least 1259 people agreed, and this image was number 1 on the tf2 subreddit for a day.
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<hr>
  
i know it might not be considered important, or maybe people think it's too hard, but it's something we can and should change.
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2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): [https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP]. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.
  
i propose we start a project around googlebombing in order to make this the number 1 result in google for "tf2 wiki"
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<hr>
  
anyone agree?--<small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:DJLO|DJLO]]''' ([[User talk:DJLO|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/DJLO|contribs]]) </small>
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3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: [https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo]
  
 +
<hr>
  
I fully agree. Why has this not been fixed already? [[User:MaxMan1300|MaxMan1300]] 19:20, 4 October 2011 (PDT)
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4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Boarder%27s_Beanie&oldid=3594086 this page]). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]
  
:We're currently implementing some search engine optimisations that should help with this. -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sup>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sup> 19:24, 4 October 2011 (PDT)
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a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.
  
:: In the meantime;
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<hr>
    Go to google.com
 
    Click on the gear icon in the top right and click "search settings"
 
    Scroll down to the bottom and find where it says "blocked sites"
 
    Click on "manage blocked sites"
 
    Type http://tf2wiki.net/ in the textbox and click "block site"
 
[[User:SS2R|SS2R]] 01:39, 13 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::Has Google been contacted on the matter? Additionally the other website is simply an advert money scheme which ''should'' persuade Google if they are informed. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 22:05, 3 November 2011 (PDT)
 
I would really love this to be changed, TF2Wiki seems outdated and I hate how the official Wiki is overshadowed by it. [[User:BillyMays|BillyMays]] 20:06, 3 November 2011
 
  
== Rabscuttle ==
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5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, [[Main Cast]] would look like this: [https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs].
  
I noticed we don't have a page for him.  If you look at his backpack he has a Vintage Ban Hammer.  I find this mysterious.  Can we try and gather info and make a page about him or atleast about the ban hammer? [[User:MaxMan1300|MaxMan1300]] 19:19, 4 October 2011 (PDT)
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<hr>
:That's Gabe Newell's steam account. The Ban Hammer is not a real item. -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sup>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sup> 19:21, 4 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::The Ban Hammer item was a joke item added by the guy who created TF2Items.com. When the Mann Conomy update happened, the owner changed its quality to Vintage to keep the joke going. Pages are not needed. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 19:22, 4 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::Yes, 404 is right, it exists only on TF2Items.com. [[User:SiPlus|SiPlus]] 01:30, 25 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== heavy_mongol.tga ==
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6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like [[Dead of Night]] wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.
  
Anyone know why there's a TGA file in the GCF, in "tf\materials\models\player\items\heavy"? I just noticed that VTF's exist for this as well, but I don't know what item they are for. Here's the TGA in question, that I've saved into PNG format:
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'''Edit:''' Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Robot_Chicken_Hat&oldid=1679218 looked like this]. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.
  
http://i.imgur.com/uVaxC.png
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I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538] (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.
  
See. What's it for? '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 21:43, 4 October 2011 (PDT)
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<hr>
  
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7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, [[Brawling Buccaneer]] would have its Painted variants table from <nowiki>{{Painted variants}}</nowiki> to <nowiki>{{Painted variants full}}</nowiki>, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.
  
: [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/File:Painted_Magnificent_Mongolian_E6E6E6.png Look at this.] - Painted Magnificent Mongolian E6E6E6 (An Extraordinary Abundance of Tinge )    — [[User: VeKoB |<span style="color:#70B04A;font-size:15px;font-family:
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<hr>
'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><u>VeKoB</u></span>]]  [[Image:HauntedHalloweenGift.png|35px|link=]] 03:28, 5 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:: Ahh! That explains it!....Somewhat..still doesn't answer why Valve left a TGA in the GCF. Oh well! '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 05:21, 5 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::It's not uncommon for Valve to accidentally leave something behind in the files that isn't supposed to be there. The high five animations, for example, come to mind. -- <span style="font-family:TF2 Build;font-size:90%;">[[File:Killicon train.png|40px|link=User:Hefaistus]] [[User:Hefaistus|<font color="#FF9933">Hefaistus</font>]]</span> - [[User talk:Hefaistus|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]] 08:53, 5 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Order of names for multiple contributor items ==
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8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as [[Manndatory Attire]], [[Beaten and Bruised]] and [[Boarder's Beanie‎]]), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6 https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6]
  
Seems this is something we never really addressed and now is as good of any time to address it. So how should we handle this possibly sensitive ordering of names? I personally think we need consistency with this, and some sort of concrete rule on it (even if it's unwritten). It'll make it easier to avoid any conflicts in the future. I think alphabetically is the best, unbiased way to do it, anyone else agree? [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 17:03, 5 October 2011 (PDT)
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<hr>
:Alphabetic. Ordering by who made which part of the item/map (model, textures, animations, sounds etc) just seems a little bit unnecessary and confusing to me, besides from being harder to achieve. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 17:08, 5 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{c|support}} As I stated in the IRC, I feel that alphabetical organisation is the most impartial method. As the Wiki is supposed to be factual and display information impartially, it would be inappropriate to adopt a practice of putting the "contributor that did the most work" first, especially because it is not difficult to imagine that such claims might be disputed. If such a dispute were to occur, it would be considerably easier for the Wiki to avoid becoming involved if it adopted this policy, and this would be especially important if one or more item contributors were also Wiki editors. --- [[File:Killicon_pumpkin.png|40px|link=User:Esquilax]] <font face="georgia" size="2">[[User:Esquilax|Esquilax]]</font> 17:10, 5 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:Just alphabetise it based on forenames. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 03:02, 6 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::For maps, just go by how Valve lists the names. [[User:Rolandius|Rolandius]] 06:02, 10 October 2011 (PDT)
 
: Speaking as a contributor, don't order them in any particular way... I really don't see why this is necessary at all. For a start, people go by online alias', all it takes is for someone to pick a name which comes first alphabetically if they feel petty enough, so it has an element of control still in it. Secondly, it's barely noticeable at best. To clarify, my name comes first alphabetically, so this isn't a biased opinion. -- [[User:Benjamuffin|<span style="color:#0e5c76;font-size:13px;font-family:'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;">Benjamoose</span>]] <span style="font-size:10px">[[File:BenjamuffinSig.png|Om nom nom!]] ([[User talk:Benjamuffin|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Benjamuffin|contribs]])</span> 01:39, 28 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Wikitable Collapsibility - Much needed? ==
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'''Edit: ''' 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. [[Manndatory Attire]] has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.
  
I happen to love the "collapsible" feature that can be added to wiki-tables. As you can see on [[Advanced Weaponiser]], I've added it to all the wiki-tables on the page, and even set some less-important tables to be collapsed on load. The article looks so huge when every table is un-collapsed, but when you collapse them all, it shrinks down in size quite a bit.
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a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.
  
Onto the reason why I'm here. I think we should add "collapsible" to the "class=" field on every Wikitable on the entire Wiki ''(perhaps a good job for a bot?)''. When it comes to the larger articles here on the Wiki, collapsibility can greatly help reduce the overall size of an article ''(visually)''. The only issue I'm finding, and I'm not sure if it's a browser-related issue, is shown on [[Team_Fortress_2#Critical_reception|this wikitable on the Team Fortress 2 article]]. The show/hide button appears in the left-most box, "Evaluation". On the Advanced Weaponiser article however, I simple added a new top header above the existing headers to solve this issue.
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b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like [[Onimann]] mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.
  
What do you guys think? Should we add collapsibility ''(I don't think I'm spelling collapsibility right lol)'' to all the Wikitables on the Wiki ''(except for in cases where the wikitable isn't a table on an article, such as userboxes which I believe are made with wikitables)'' '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 12:51, 9 October 2011 (PDT)
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<hr>
  
== Images ==
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Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
  
Seeing the awesome "popup" thing when you click on images on the www.theportalwiki.com makes me wonder, should our wiki have that too?
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:1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
If you don't know what I mean, go to the Portal wiki, and click on an image on a page. [[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|-Rocket Ship BBQ]] 17:47, 9 October 2011 (PDT)
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:2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
:I feel like we discussed this somewhere already "Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion" section. I'll try to see if I can dig it up. Anyways I {{c|Support}} the idea, but I feel like it might take up a lot of space and make the wikis slow cache slower (as if thats possible). [[File:User_M-NINJA_Signature.png|link=User:M-NINJA]] 17:55, 9 October 2011 (PDT)
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:4/5. I like this.
:{{c|Disagree}} I can't say I'm a fan of it on the P2 Wiki. When I click an image I like going directly to the largest version of the image possible, and also an easy access to the file info and edit history. The P2 method adds an extra step in this process for only a very slight "flashyness" added. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 17:57, 9 October 2011 (PDT)
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:6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{tl|Tabs}} template for it.
::Middle-click on the link :3 — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 23:47, 12 October 2011 (PDT)
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:7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
:{{c|Neutral}} Either way is fine in my opinion. {{n}} [[User:Cructo|{{tf2b|text=Cructo|size=12px}}]] <span style="font-size:10px"><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:Cructo|T]]<nowiki>][</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Cructo|C]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></span> 17:57, 9 October 2011 (PDT)
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:8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{tl|Tabs}}.
: I can't remember why it was implemented in the Portal Wiki but I do believe my opinion when it was, and my opinion in regards to this discussion is:  What ballad said. -[[User:RJackson|<span class="modbg" style="margin-right:1px;text-shadow: #538237 1px 1px 0px;">RJ</span>]] 19:39, 9 October 2011 (PDT)
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:9. See answer on 1.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:{{c|Disagree}} We're '''wiki''' running on '''MediaWiki'''. Clicking an image should open information page. [[User:SiPlus|SiPlus]] 04:52, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
:{{c|support}} Portal 2 Wiki is also '''wiki''' running on '''MediaWiki'''. I have no clue what you're trying to say SiPlus, but I do know it makes literally no sense at all. But I support this idea. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 05:41, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
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::1 {{c|+|Agree}} - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
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::2 / 3 {{c|?|Not sure / changes}} - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
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::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - This also looks nice.
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::5 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.  
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::6 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
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::7 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
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::8 {{c|+|Agree / changes}} - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
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::9 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.  
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::[[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Speech typing.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] [[File:Photo Badge Decal Example.png|15px|link=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:ListFiles?limit=25&user=Andrew360&ilshowall=0]] 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
  
== Class arsenal images ==
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:::1 {{c|-|Disagree}} - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
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:::2 {{c|+|Agree}} - Good idea!
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:::3 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
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:::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - Yes.
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:::5 {{c|+|Agree}} - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
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:::6 {{c|+|Agree}} - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
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:::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - Same with Andrew360
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:::8 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{tl|Tabs}}?
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:::9 {{c|?|Disagree.. or Sorta Agree}} - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
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:::[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
  
The end of each class gallery has an "arsenal" image and a "class card" image. I really don't feel like these are neccessary, at least not the "class card". They feel redundant, considering all the other images in the gallery and the article images. I could see adding the arsenals to the basic informations on the top right, though. Right below speed and above Meet the Team, maybe. Thoughts? --[[User:SilverHammer|SilverHammer]] 21:14, 9 October 2011 (PDT)
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::::1 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
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::::2 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I wanna see how it would look first.
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::::3 {{c|+|Agree}} - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
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::::4 {{c|+|Strongly agree}} - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
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::::5 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I like the idea, but it will take a '''lot''' of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
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::::6 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Same answer as 5.
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::::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
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::::8 {{c|-|Somewhat disagree}} - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
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::::9 {{c|-|Strongly disagree}} - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
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::::[[User:ShadowMan44|ShadowMan44]] ([[User talk:ShadowMan44|talk]]) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
  
:{{c|Neutral}} To a point, I agree with you. They aren't terribly informative nor unique in terms of telling readers more about each class. That being said, however, there's no real reason to remove them. Either way, I don't mind. But I guess more information is better... --[[User:Vorsprung|Vorsprung]] 19:16, 26 October 2011 (AEST)
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:::::So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.
  
== Time Zones ==
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:::::However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.
  
A bit of an odd question here - on the ''Date and Time'' section in ''preferences'', there are about 700 cities to choose from to set your time offset. There are some fairly obscure ones in there but for some reason Edinburgh, Belfast and Cardiff (the capital cities of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales) aren't on the list. I've listed Isle of Man as my time zone because it's the closest one to me.
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:::::GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.
  
By the way, I'm not complaining, just curious. It doesn't really make a difference anyway! '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 05:06, 10 October 2011 (PDT)
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:::::GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the [[Boarder's Beanie]] paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.
  
:I just pick "Fill in from browser" since that list is missing major cities over here too. [[User:Rolandius|Rolandius]] 05:27, 10 October 2011 (PDT)
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:::::My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.
  
::Yeah, like I said it's not a problem to fill in the time zone manually, I was just wondering why the capital cities of three major countries have been missed out. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 05:34, 10 October 2011 (PDT)
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:::::ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.
::: Scotland, N Ireland and Wales are usually considered under the umbrella of the United Kingdom, aren't they? That would make London the capital city of those "countries" [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 05:36, 10 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::Yes, that's what I thought as well. It just seemed odd that there would be such a comprehensive list of cities and miss them out =( '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 05:50, 10 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::I guess this is a MediaWiki issue; so there's no way for the staff or Valve to fix it. But yeah, it's really strange. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 10:45, 13 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Suggestion for all hat/misc pages ==
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:::::Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something [[Liquor Locker]], [[Pocket-Medes]], etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.
  
I suggest adding the hats each hat/misc fits/does not fit with.
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:::::Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like [[Manndatory Attire]] and [[Boarder's Beanie]] wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?
In other words, stuff like Nanobalaclava not being able to be worn with Phantom would be listed. (I used it as an example because its one of the less obvious ones.) [[User:Cryder|Cryder]] 14:41, 15 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Nope}} The wiki should not influence peoples opinions on how items look. [[File:User_M-NINJA_Signature.png|link=User:M-NINJA]] 14:44, 15 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:: I meant like, you literally CAN'T wear the Party Phantom with Nanobalaclava because VALVe disabled it. I meant showing what hats you just can't wear with what miscs, and vise versa. [[User:Cryder|Cryder]] 14:53, 15 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::Just needs an expansion/explaination of the equip regions somewhere is all. Tooltip in the infobox template? - [[User:Devozade|Devozade]] 14:57, 15 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::: In my experience, I equipped a fez, phantom, and camera beard successfully when the manniversary update first came out. When the second patch came, I was locked to wear either the fez or phantom. The same goes for conflicted region items like the space chem pin and dueling badge. Definitely could use a tooltip to explain the equip regions. However, making and maintaining a list on every hat and their conflicts may be more work than its worth. [[User:RedMage|RedMage]] 15:20, 15 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::Misc/hat item pages could show what bodygroup the item belongs/interferes with. (in game files) <small>-[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]</small> 15:45, 15 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Bluprint Template: Possible Results should list names. ==
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:::::ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the [[Dead of Night]] and [[Pocket-Medes]]. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
  
I dont know if it is possible to edit the template but i hope it is. I find it not so good that the possible results in other languages list it like this: Buccaneer's_Bicorne/de , this is not helpful for a guy which wants to know the german hat name/s.
+
::::::So [[User:Tekinz|Tekinz]] and [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:
This is an example from the [[Scottish_Handshake/de||Scottish handshake german page]]. I would love to see a way to list the real name of the hat in the language of the wiki page and shows up when you move the mouse over the picture, instead of an english link(name) with /de on it(link).  
 
It links you correctly to the other german page, but doesn't inform you directly.
 
Hope someone has an idea how to update this. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor(without a small pic)]] 18:12, 15 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Suggestion: Editor Review ==
+
::::::Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.
  
So while I've been at work for the past few days, I've been reading Wikipedia to pass the time. And I happened upon their [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editor_review Editor Review section]. It seems like a good idea to implement here! Editors would be able to create a new section, ask for a review of their edits. Other users check their edits and give them honest feedback on how to improve as an editor, or maybe correct a mistake they may have recently made, etc. '''I'd love to get some feedback on this suggestion.''' '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 13:07, 16 October 2011 (PDT)
+
::::::mgpt:
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 4. You got my vote, very good;
 +
::::::{{c|-|Disagree}} 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;
 +
::::::{{c|Info}} 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in [[Brigade Helm]]? If so, I don't see a problem;
 +
::::::{{c|Info}} 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? [https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C] Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;
 +
::::::{{c|Info}} 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of [[Beaten and Bruised]], the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;
 +
::::::{{c|Info}} I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== Knives stunned first person images? ==
+
:::::::I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:
 +
:::::::7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of [[Stout Shako]];
 +
:::::::7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. '''Post-thoughts:''' After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.
 +
:::::::8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the [[Boarder's Beanie]] images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.
 +
:::::::9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
  
I was wondering if we could come to a consensus about whether adding the following images to their respective articles (or to the [[Razorback]] article) would be at all useful:
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{{Outdent|7}} 1 {{c|?|Not sure}} It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.<br>
 +
2/3 {{c|+|Agree}} It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!<br>
 +
4 {{c|+|Agree}} Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)<br>
 +
5 {{c|-|Disagree}} On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.<br>
 +
6 {{c|?|Not sure}} I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.<br>
 +
7 {{c|?|Not sure}} I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.<br>
 +
8 {{c|+|Agree}} I agree with the others on this point, {{tl|Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.<br>
 +
9 {{c|-|Disagree}} See #8<br>
 +
[[User:H20verdrive|H20verdrive]] ([[User talk:H20verdrive|talk]]) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:
 +
:1. {{c|+|Agree}} Very good stuff.
 +
:2. {{c|?|Abstain}} Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.
 +
:3. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.
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:4. {{c|+|Agree}} Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.
 +
:5. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} Seems alright.
 +
:6. {{c|?|Abstain}} It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.
 +
:7. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.
 +
:8. {{c|+|Agree}} Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.
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:9. {{c|-|Weak Disagree}} As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.
 +
:Overall, if I had to give a vote for the ''whole package'', {{c|+|Agree, with tweaking}}.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:
 +
{| class="wikitable"
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 1 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''7''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 2 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''7''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 3 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''9''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 4 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''10''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''0'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 5 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''4''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''4''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 6 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''4''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}:  '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''4'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 7 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''8''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 8 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''8''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 9 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''2''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''3''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''4'''
 +
|}
 +
My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
<gallery>
+
== Userbox, and creator page ==
File:User I-ghost Conniver's Kunai Stunned 1st person red.png|RED first-person view, stunned.
 
File:User I-ghost Conniver's Kunai Stunned 1st person blu.png|BLU first-person view, stunned.
 
File:User I-ghost Knife Stunned 1st person red.png|RED first-person view, stunned.
 
File:User I-ghost Knife Stunned 1st person blu.png|BLU first-person view, stunned.
 
File:User I-ghost Your Eternal Reward Stunned 1st person red.png|RED first-person view, stunned.
 
File:User I-ghost Your Eternal Reward Stunned 1st person blu.png|BLU first-person view, stunned.
 
File:User I-ghost Wanga Prick Stunned 1st person red.png|RED first-person view, stunned.
 
File:User I-ghost Wanga Prick Stunned 1st person blu.png|BLU first-person view, stunned.
 
</gallery>
 
  
Is this a case of over-documenting, or would at least one pair, or indeed all, of these images be somewhat useful on the Razorback article to demonstrate in principle the first-person stun animation? [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 04:51, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
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Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:{{c|support}} While these may not look like much, I do think this is worth documenting. SackZement asked in IRC if this was the "ready to stab" animation, which inclines me further to support this if someone with his knowledge of TF2 doesn't know the difference between them, a new player might think that as well. With that being said, I think if these were to be added, they should all go on the Razorback article, as it is the cause of this, and not the knives. [[User:SS2R|SS2R]] 05:02, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
+
:For userboxes see [[Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes]]. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{tl|User infobox}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:{{c|support}} I fully support these being added to the Razorback article. I believe that the fact that they are similar to the ready to backstab pose only merits them being added more, so that users can compare the images and see the difference. -[[User:Mr. Magoolachub|Mr. Magoolachub]] 05:10, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
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::Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:{{c|support}} Why weren't these added ages ago? That's my question. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 05:14, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
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:::[[Help:Images]] may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using [[Special:Upload|the upload page]]. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include <nowiki>[[Category:User images]]</nowiki> in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.
  
:{{c|support}} Good info to have on the Razorback page. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 05:37, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
+
:::As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:{{c|support}} It definatly is an information that should be noted in the Gallery. Good Job! [[User:T-Wayne|T-Wayne]] 05:42, 21 October 2011 (PDT)
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::::Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:{{c|neutral}} If they are identical to the backstab animation <u>after</u> pressing attack (the "stabbing the person" position, not "ready to stab" position), they should probably be added to the individual weapon pages instead. If these animations are unique to the Razorback, then I support.  —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 00:32, October 22, 2011
+
== Civilian Image ==
  
:{{c|comment}} Updated with [[Wanga Prick]] images. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 04:55, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
+
Should we change the image of the [[Civilian]] ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== Achievement Video guides ==
+
:That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, [[Civilian (Classic)]] is the TFC version.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Just an Idea I had for a series of guides for Various (or all) Achievements, I understand that we have written guides, But I think it would help allot of people to actually see what you have to do, but its just an Idea, so tell me what you think! :) [[User:Ihasnotomato|Ihasnotomato]]
+
::Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
:{{c|nope}} There are many ways to obtain achievements, and videos simply teach how to get it by farming. Also quite pointless for most of the achievements. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 17:28, 25 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::{{c|Disagree}} Most of the achievements are pretty self-explaining in how to achieve them and I do not think the big amount of TF2 Players needs Videos to understand them :P [[File:TF2_crosshair.png|26px|link=User:T-Wayne]]{{md}}[[User:T-Wayne|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:bold;">T-Wayne</span>]]{{md}}[[User_Talk:T-Wayne|<span style="color:#990000;font-family:arial, sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:bold;">Talk</span>]] 08:02, 26 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::{{c|disagree}} It's a nice idea, but it would only result in a lot of work for things that could be easily understood by reading the individual pages. If it were a single video detailing, say, the 10 hardest achievements based on how many players have them, then maybe there would be something there. But as it stands, the video guides would be more trouble than it's worth. --[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]] {{mod}} 08:23, 26 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Painted Weapons ==
+
:::That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Although there are very few, and lie in obscurity, I think we should create an article detailing them. There are two known painted weapons in existence, a Mangler painted Balaclavas are Forever, and an obscure Green Painted Vita-Saw that we still know little about. Painted Weapons were a mistake on valves part - a Feature they threw in by mistake, and got rid of minutes later. As short as it is, I still think it's necessary to create an article about it. <small>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by '''[[User:NateDude|Natedude]]''' ([[User_talk:NateDude|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/NateDude|contribs]]) 00:13, October 28, 2011 </small>
+
== Weapon in user page ==
:First of all, you have to have some proof about those things, and not confusing it with some graphics glitch, modded server, or edited image. Secondly, at most, it would only be listed in the [[Paint Can#Bugs|bugs]] section. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 20:45, 27 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{c|disagree}} Pics or its fake --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 10:55, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::{{c|disagree}} I've seen the painted vitasaw, but it's nothing more than a minor bug and doesn't warrant an article or mention. '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:83%;">—[[File:User Moussekateer signature sprite.png|31px|link=User:Moussekateer]][[User:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black">Moussekateer</span>]]·[[User talk:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]]</span>''' 10:59, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::Wrong, Moussekateer. The Cow Mangler was made paintable for a few minutes in the Manniversary, painted Cow Manglers are not results of bugs. {{n}} [[User:Cructo|{{tf2b|text=Cructo|size=15px}}]] <span style="font-size:10px"><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:Cructo|T]]<nowiki>][</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Cructo|C]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></span> 11:02, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::Backpack link or it didn't happen. --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 11:05, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::http://tf2b.com/item/76561197976184869/533008537 {{n}} [[User:Cructo|{{tf2b|text=Cructo|size=15px}}]] <span style="font-size:10px"><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:Cructo|T]]<nowiki>][</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Cructo|C]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></span> 11:07, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::::Painted Cow Manglers are available in the [[Team Fortress 2 Beta|beta]]. Doesn't mean we need an article about it. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 11:28, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:Obscure Green painted Vita-Saw? I did some detective work, and found [http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/ldo1t/vitasaw_painted/ this post on Reddit, submitted by Smashman]. He links to [http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198044104767 this guy's Steam Inventory.] Sadly, the painted Vita-Saw is missing. I then remembered that TF2Items.com keeps historical archives of your backpack, so I got back to detectiving. On October 14th, he had no painted Vita-Saw. On October 15th, he '''had''' a painted Vita-Saw on [http://www.tf2items.com/profiles/76561198044104767?time=1318726965 page 3 of his backpack.] Then on October 16th, he no longer had a painted Vita-Saw. According to the [http://www.tf2items.com/item/523694245 historical records of the painted Vita-Saw], it was traded to [http://steamcommunity.com/id/DkDominus/ this person.] And it appears he still has the painted Vita-Saw [http://www.tf2items.com/id/DkDominus/ on page 2 of his backpack]. Mystery solved. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 22:07, 31 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::Whoop-de-doo. Trivia or bug? Or not mentioning it? —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 22:12, 31 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::No need for the attitude. I was just responding with my findings regarding the "obscure painted vita saw" comment. <s>I can tell by your previous comments that you have some sort of anger/ego problem</s>, so I'll just be on my way. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 22:15, 31 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::Haha, I wasn't mad. But, yeah, I honestly don't find it too important to be listed. Just one single item in existence. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 22:17, 31 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::Alrighty, well I apologize for what I said above. I'll strike it out. But it's actually two painted items in existence. The Balacalava-painted Cow Mangler, and the whatever-damn-color-that-is painted Vita-Saw. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 22:29, 31 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::::Yeah, oops. Honestly, though, I think it's not worthy enough of being trivia, and far too minor to be noted as a bug. If we put it as trivia most likely somebody will sweep it away, calling it "bad trivia". —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 22:48, 31 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:We don't record the existence of bugged qualities (such as the vintage Bill and Earbuds) either, so I see no reason why we should record this. -- <span style="font-family:TF2 Build;font-size:90%;">[[File:Killicon train.png|40px|link=User:Hefaistus]] [[User:Hefaistus|<font color="#FF9933">Hefaistus</font>]]</span> - [[User talk:Hefaistus|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]] 23:11, 31 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Halloween Update Page Revamp ==
+
Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
  
To fit the color scheme of the nav files, I have doe a revamp of the [[Scream Fortress Update]]. It redoes all the tables to match the colors used in the nav files. The revamped page can be found [[User:Stevoisiak/WIP_Pages/Scream_Fortress_Update|here]]. (Edit: Also revamped [[User:Stevoisiak/WIP_Pages/Mac_Update|Mac Update]]) Should I apply it to the official page? --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 09:00, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
+
:Well, you could try learning how to use [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Table wikitables], there are also templates like [[Template:Backpack item]] and [[Template:User weapon checklist]] you could use to this effect.<br><span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
:{{c|Agree}} To match the navbox. {{n}} [[User:Cructo|{{tf2b|text=Cructo|size=15px}}]] <span style="font-size:10px"><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:Cructo|T]]<nowiki>][</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Cructo|C]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></span> 09:16, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Agree}} Do it maggot. -- [[User:OluapPlayer|<font color="red">'''OluapPlayer'''</font>]] <sub>([[User_talk:OluapPlayer|t]])</sub> {{adm}} [[File:User OluapPlayer Sig.png|Howdy, pardner!]] 09:17, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{c|agree}} looks nice. '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:83%;">[[File:User Moussekateer signature sprite.png|31px|link=User:Moussekateer]][[User:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black">Moussekateer</span>]]·[[User talk:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]]</span>''' 10:59, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Neutral}} Are we going to apply this to all other update pages? Cause I'll start rolling this out. ---- [[User:No-oneSpecial|{{TF2B|text = No-oneSpecial| quality = vintage | size = 13px}}]] [[File:Killicon_flamethrower.png|50px|link=User:No-oneSpecial]] <small>([[User_talk:No-oneSpecial|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/No-oneSpecial|contribs]])</small> 01:27, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
::{{c|Neutral|Why not?}} As long as it doesn't look ugleh, why not put it on all the pages. --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 20:38, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Hat images ==
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== Allweapons Nav template ==
  
I think hat images should all be updated to match the style of the weapon images. I understand that the whole "pose" thing is sort of a hallmark, but a lot of uploaders are putting the pose of the character above the ability to actually see the hat or misc well. The article is about the item itself, and it'd seem better to get a good 360 degree view of the item, you know? Image makers can still produce unique poses and whatnot in the gallery, but the standard set by the main article image is a lot nicer, in my opinion. --[[User:SilverHammer|SilverHammer]] 13:55, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
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Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current [[Template:Allweapons Nav|Allweapons Nav]] template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on [[User:Mgpt/Sandbox#Test|my sandbox user page]] ('''Nav 1''' and '''Nav 2'''). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in '''Nav 2''' appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
:I think that's already [[Team Fortress Wiki:3D Models#Hats|under way]]. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 14:38, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::3D hats would be cool but I think they should not replace the character pose [[user:seb26|<small style="background:#f9f9f9;border:1px solid #0070FF;padding:0em 0.5em;color:#000;-webkit-box-shadow:2px 1px 1px #8BBEFF;">'''seb26'''</small>]] 14:40, 29 October 2011 (PDT)
 
{{discussion close|elsewhere=no}}
 
== "Frontline Engineer" ==
 
I have a strategy for engi it called frontline engie: You need frontier justice , gunslinger and pistol (lugarmorph). You will go to the frontiline and place your sentry and wait for the enemies your mini sentry will kill 1 or 2 enemies (on smart places more) if your mini sentry is destroyt you have crits. Don t use this crits only when it is neccesary (or you have less metal) if you think their is a invisble spy arount shoot with your pistol in rounds the spy wil get uncloaked for a few seconds you can see the spy so you know were he is so you can kill him. You can also profite from your +25 health bonus from the gunslinger always handy. This is my strategy. By: DarkFQ <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:DarkFQ|DarkFQ]]''' ([[User talk:DarkFQ|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/DarkFQ|contribs]]) </small> 14:15, October 30, 2011
 
:''Moved to [[Talk:Community Engineer strategy]].'' —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 16:57, 30 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Wanga Prick in Saharan Spy ==
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:I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Does someone know of the new spy knife part is from the saharan spy. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:DarkFQ|DarkFQ]]''' ([[User talk:DarkFQ|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/DarkFQ|contribs]]) </small> 14:12, October 30, 2011
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:: Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
:''Moved to [[Talk:Wanga Prick]].'' —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 16:57, 30 October 2011 (PDT)
 
{{discussion close|end|elsewhere=no}}
 
  
== Items that appear in community events as trivia ==
+
:::I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
As community updates that showcase items become more and more common, I'm seeing more and more people putting "This item was featured in an unrelated fan update" in the trivia section more often. Can we set a standard for this? Should this be mentioned in the trivia section, or at all? I don't think so. The article is about the item. The trivia section is for neat fact about the item. While an item may have appeared in a fan update... What might that have to do with the item itself? I can see both sides, but it just doesn't seem like good trivia to me. Doesn't seem worth mentioning. --[[User:SilverHammer|SilverHammer]] 20:48, 30 October 2011 (PDT)
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:::::I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
:You answered your own question. It's a neat fact. &ndash; [[User:Smashman|<font color=#507D2A>Smashman</font>]]<sub>&nbsp;([[User_talk:Smashman|talk]])</sub> 21:01, 30 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:: But they're unofficial, so I really don't think they're worth mentioning. --[[User:SilverHammer|SilverHammer]] 21:20, 30 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::Unofficial? You mean the updates? So? It's still an interesting fact about the item. &ndash; [[User:Smashman|<font color=#507D2A>Smashman</font>]]<sub>&nbsp;([[User_talk:Smashman|talk]])</sub> 21:28, 30 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::::Well, they ''are'' where the weapon originated from. Quite well worth noting. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 23:23, 30 October 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::Agree with Smashman. -[[User:Mr. Magoolachub|Mr. Magoolachub]] 23:25, 30 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Content for Deletion Noticeboard - A suggestion/discussion ==
+
{{outdent|5}} Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.
  
Allow me to start this discussion off by saying that I feel this discussion board is useless and should not be used for reaching a consensus on whether or not to delete something. That of course is simply my opinion. This board is not the proper place to be starting discussions about whether or not to delete content from the Wiki. Many deletion consensus discussions have gone horrible awry on this board, due to a few specific reasons which include:
+
Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."
 +
* That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
 +
* It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
: I made some changes, thanks for the input [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
  
* Nobody ever really reads this board. This is due in part to the fact that the board isn't properly linked anywhere. I suggest adding a link to this page on the sidebar, possibly under "Toolbox".
+
:: Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make ''as much'' sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
* There is often not enough people taking part in a deletion consensus discussion to properly close the discussion. You can't try to reach a consensus with like 4 people voting for deletion, and 1 or 2 people voting against it. This almost always ends in a stalemate or some other weird situation.
+
::: I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::: Updated the template [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Therefore, I propose we add a new discussion board, similar to Wikipedia's "Articles for Deletion" board. In this case, to cover everything, it should be called "Content for Deletion" or the "Content for Deletion Discussion Board". Archiving would obviously be done once the page gets full to a certain point, or after a certain amount of time. All discussions would follow a strict format ''(for which we could potentially design a template for)''. I'm thinking something like this:
+
== About the 2023 leak ==
  
<pre><nowiki>== Article Name ==</nowiki>
+
Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
<nowiki>[[Article]]</nowiki>
 
Nominator: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>
 
Reason for Labelling: Why should this content be deleted?</pre>
 
  
Then for the comments:
+
:As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the [[Team Fortress Wiki:Policies#Leaked content|leaked content policy]]. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
<pre><nowiki>=== Support ===</nowiki>
+
::So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
<nowiki>{{c|Support}}</nowiki> Reason for supporting <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>
 
  
<nowiki>=== Oppose ===</nowiki>
+
:::Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
<nowiki>{{c|Oppose}}</nowiki> Reason for opposing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>
 
  
<nowiki>=== Comments ===</nowiki>
+
::::I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Hey, I have a comment! <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>
 
<nowiki>:</nowiki> Hey, I'm replying to you! <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></pre>
 
  
Discussions would be active for a certain period of time, let's say 20 days. After the 20 days are up, votes are tallied and consensus is reached. If a discussion fails to get a certain amount of voters/votes in total (let's say 10), the discussion is closed and labelled as "Did not reach consensus". If the discussion fails to reach consensus, it cannot be re-created immediately. After 5 days, the discussion may then be re-created to try to come to consensus again. Of course, those are just hypothetical time periods and such, and it's obviously up to the admins to figure out proper time periods and such if they choose to implement this.
+
== [[Template:Community Medal Nav|Community Medal Nav]] (closed) ==
  
I'd love to get some feedback on this suggestion, because I still believe that this discussion board is the wrong place to try to reach a consensus on whether or not to delete something. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 00:51, 31 October 2011 (PDT)
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I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{tl|Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
:Unfortunately creating a new page/board isn't going to help the lack of users taking part in the discussion. Additionally, it isn't like there will always be a page that is wanted to be deleted, further dimishing the users visiting that page. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 01:16, 31 October 2011 (PDT)
 
::Hmm...you have a bit of a point there...still, if someone wants to delete a certain page/template/category/what-have-you, and it could potentially create some form of controversy, a separate board for this type of thing would be nice. I've seen a lot of discussions on this board go south because of the lack of people voting for/against something. But I think the reason that this page isn't visited a whole lot is because it's so damned hard to find. Adding a link to this board on the sidebar like I suggested above could greatly remedy the lack of people visiting this board. ''Oh wait, I found a link to this board on the main page! Right in the top right corner in the "Welcome to the TF2 Wiki" header!''. Never noticed that there before. Not really an area that a normal user would think to look in. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 01:26, 31 October 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Basic Strategy Item Set edits by user InShane. ==
+
:With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:: Would adding an [https://i.imgur.com/XeBjHCT.png 'Other' section with two links] for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "[[Template:Competitive Nav|Competitive play]]" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?
 +
:: Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
  
He keeps on editing the sections of these pages, even though they were fin to begin with. It's become increasingly frustration to un-do all of his edits by myself, so I am asking for the help of other to help me clean up these articles. It would be greatly appreciated. [[User:AnthonyX|AnthonyX]] 18:55, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
+
:::I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
:What exactly is he doing? I'd be glad to help. I see his edits. You might want to post it on [[User talk:InShane|his talk page]] though. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 19:03, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
::He Keeps removing all of the item sets for each class, and only puts in the sets that have bonuses to them. The sets that don't have any bonuses to them are still considered item sets, even the new halloween costumes. [[User:AnthonyX|AnthonyX]] 19:13, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
:::{{c|Comment}} The new Halloween costumes contribute no strategies. [[File:User_M-NINJA_Signature.png|link=User:M-NINJA]] 19:18, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
::::Currently discussing this in the IRC. Summary: item sets that have  no bonuses have no strategy and thus should not be mentioned. [[Item sets]] covers all item sets and list whether or not they have bonuses. The strategy pages, on the other hand, need not list those. Set effects, such as +25 HP or an immunity to headshots, provide gameplay effects that should be covered. Saying "BEEP BOOP SON" does not. -- [[User:InShane|InShane]] 19:20, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
::This is being discussed in the IRC channel right now. I absolutely agree that the Halloween sets, as well as any other cosmetic set, should not be listed on strategy pages. Those pages should not be comprehensive on all official sets. On the other hand, I think there is value to some non-official sets that were deleted. I think the real issue here is of naming. Calling the sections "item sets" creates some confusion; the sections would be better named something like "Loadout-specific strategies." --[[User:Fashnek|Fashnek]] 19:23, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
:::Currently, the sections are labelled "Item Set Effects" - This should address the fact that the section only covers loadouts that give specific bonuses, specifically sets from the Mannconomy and Medieval updates. -- [[User:InShane|InShane]] 19:28, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
: While being thorough is a laudable goal, purely cosmetic items that have no effect upon gameplay would not appear to have their own strategies, and individual weapons are usually covered independently. If a persuasive case can be made relating to why cosmetic item sets should be included however, and their strategy can be outlined in detail, then the community could vote and support or oppose its addition. For example, one (but not me ;)) could (perhaps) argue that the [[Apparition's Aspect]] provides an advantage, and outline an anti-Sniper strategy for the Pyro. Then the community could vote on it and a determination could be made. As for this year's Halloween costumes, I'm not sure that their addition adds any value (as my Management say). --- [[File:Killicon_pumpkin.png|40px|link=User:Esquilax]] <font face="georgia" size="2">[[User:Esquilax|Esquilax]]</font> 19:32, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
:::{{c|Comment}} It shouldn't be labelled "Item Set Effects" but instead "Polycount Sets" as the section doesn't describe the effects per se, but rather the set as a whole. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 19:41, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
::::As of now, I intend to have the sections address how to utilize the set effect, and whether weapons required for the set effect have a significant impact on how to do so. -- [[User:InShane|InShane]] 19:45, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
:::The [[Australian Christmas#Class_sets]] have effects as well. Let's not get hung up on the official sets. Some of the effects don't really make a difference to strategy at all, and some sets that aren't official [[Item sets]] have the most implications on strategy. I don't think this is about sets. This is about loadouts. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Fashnek|Fashnek]]''' ([[User talk:Fashnek|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Fashnek|contribs]]) </small> 19:46, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
::::We're not focused on Item Sets, we're focused on the '''effects''' granted by certain loadouts. -- [[User:InShane|InShane]] 19:47, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
:::::The effect requires you have the set, which forces you to adapt your strategy. Australian Christmas sets are simply Polycount sets released later. —[[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]]•[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 19:49, 1 November 2011 (PDT)
 
:I agree with the Halloween Sets not being added to the strategy list, since they're just hats and nothing else. I've had my posts removed by InShane as well, and he said that the set has to have a real effect (i.e. Sentry Buster Set 20% Resistance to Sentrys or w/e). While I agree with this, some item sets such as the Black Market Buisness should be listed in the item sets, since A) many people equip this set and B) new players want to know how this could effect their gameplay. Just my thought, and I removed the edit to not get into an argument. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:BillyMays|BillyMays]]''' ([[User talk:BillyMays|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/BillyMays|contribs]]) </small> 18:03, November 3, 2011
 
::Item sets without effects are essentially specific loadouts, with a hat or misc. item added for flair. Because these sets '''are''' just specific loadouts, individual item strategies cover what is needed. Entries generally already take care of weapon synergy, such as what secondary weapons work with what primary weapons, unless most possible loadouts with said weapon are viable. -- [[User:InShane|InShane]] 19:11, 3 November 2011 (PDT)
 
:::I see what you mean, makes sense :) -- [[User:BillyMays|BillyMays]] 16:27, 4 November 2011 (PDT)
 
  
== Quality Checklist? ==
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:::: I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
On every Wiki page that has to do with an item, it's a bit troublesome to have to read between the lines for the item quality's the item can be in.
+
::::: Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not ''exactly'' the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what ''I'' wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then ''that's'' wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
I propose we can have a sort of quality checklist, or some other format of the sort, that allows us to easily see the quality the selected item can be in <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:BillyMays|BillyMays]]''' ([[User talk:BillyMays|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/BillyMays|contribs]]) 00:11, 4 November 2011</small>
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:::::: They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely. <br>[[User:Cheddar|Cheddar]] ([[User talk:Cheddar|talk]]) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
:This can be quite a tricky subject to add to articles. A number of items that normally don't exist in certain qualities ''(i.e. Vintage Earbuds)'' exist due in part to a Customer Support issue awhile back. People would delete an item, then make a support ticket and they would be refunded their item in Vintage. However, I am all for this suggestion, though it would require revamping our infoboxes for weapons & hats to include some sort of quality-colored checkboxes, showing that the item is available in that quality. Perhaps a page could be constructed to list some "oddities", such as the Vintage Earbuds, and how they were obtained. Adding a page on the subject would be a great thing because a lot of players don't know the history behind those illegitimate Vintage items, and how they were obtained. I vote {{c|Support}}. '''[[User:404 User Not Found|404: User Not Found]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:404_User_Not_Found|(talk)]]</sup> 17:58, 4 November 2011 (PDT)
 
::It would definitely be difficult to add to the Wiki, but maybe in the future it could be done. Thanks for supporting :) [[User:BillyMays|BillyMays]]
 
  
== Item Tooltips on Item Page Links ==
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{{outdent|7}}
 +
By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.<br>
 +
I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.<br>
 +
Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
This is a proposal for a relatively simple, but useful addition to the wiki - mouseover tooltips on links to item pages.
+
:If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
 +
:: So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes  "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.
  
Similar to how items in-game, on steam community, and when linked in chat have mouse-hover tooltips, such tooltips could also be added to links to item pages. This would at the very least make browsing blueprints a lot simpler as users would no longer have to visit each item's page to see the item.  
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:: I ''would'' fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
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::: ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{tl|Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
 +
:::: That didn't ''matter'' when some of those event pages, for '''years''', had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a ''new'' nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.
  
I have seen such systems used to great effect in other wikis, for example [http://www.wowpedia.org/Legendary] (if you will excuse the linking of another wiki).
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:::: Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
I have put together a simple example of what I am suggesting in my user-space. See [[User:Stewart/sandbox]] and follow the instructions. The changes I have made in order to make this work are thus:
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::::: closed given the recent discussion [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
1. I took a copy of [[Template:Backpack_item]] into [[User:Stewart/Backpack_item]], and simply added a css class to the outermost div element. (in order to use the template I also took a copy of [[Template:Item_infobox]] into [[User:Stewart/Item_infobox]] and pointed it instead at my custom Backpack_item template, and I took a copy of a chunk of [[Sticky_Jumper]] into [[User:Stewart/Sticky_Jumper]] and changed it to use the custom Item_infobox template. Were my suggestion to be accepted and deployed, the only required change for this step would be the addition of a css class to [[Template:Backpack_item]].)
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== Trivias without confirmations ==
  
2. I created a template [[User:Stewart/ItemLink]] which accepts a pagename as an argument and simply creates a normal link to that page contained within a &lt;span class='backpack-item'></span> element. Such a template would need to replace links to item pages everywhere a tooltip is desired, for example inside the blueprint template, although if desired it could also be used globally to put these tooltips everywhere.
+
Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::What about [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Crafty_Hair#Trivia this one]? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia [[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::::Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. [[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
3. I wrote some simple jQuery-based javascript into [[User:Stewart/vector.js]] which performs the work. Were my suggestion to be accepted and deployed this javascript or something similar would need to be added to [[MediaWiki:Common.js]] by an administrator. The javascript essentially watches for mouse events on link elements inside a .backpack-item element (as created by the template in step 2), takes the URL and works out which article it is pointing to. It then makes an AJAX GET request to http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Team_Fortress_Wiki:Discussion&action=render for the target article, locates the 'tagged' tooltip from the change in step 1 inside the html response, and displays it floating near the mouse for as long as the mouse is on the link.
+
::::::Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
I'm no javascript expert and I'm sure there are more than a few people here who can suggest improvements/changes to my code but at the very least it provides a proof-of-concept for what I'm suggesting. The amount of work required to do this is relatively small, and there are no external dependencies of any kind as the tooltips are generated from the wiki pages which already contain a static version of this. I spoke to Moussekateer on IRC earlier who suggested I post my idea here for discussion, so here it is.
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== Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data ==
  
[[User:Stewart|Stewart]] 13:17, 5 November 2011 (PDT)
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It seems like a very [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Reports/Untranslated_templates/fr|handy feature]] (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?<br>
:I don't see it on the Wowpedia, could you explain how to activate the tooltip on that wiki? Pictures of your examples would be nice also as I'm rather short on time to create a page in my userspace to test. [[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]][[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 12:55, 6 November 2011 (PST)
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I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe [[User:Darkid|Darkid]]?<br>
 +
Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
  
::As requested, some images of my example in action - [http://imageshack.us/g/855/tooltip1.jpg/], please note that as stated on [[User:Stewart/sandbox]] the image and name of the tooltip are broken due to the target page being a page in my userspace, it does match what is displayed here: [[User:Stewart/Sticky_Jumper]]. With regard to the Wowpedia example, the tooltips on the page I linked become visible when hovering over any of the item names (in this case the majority are displayed in orange, with square brackets and icons) once they have had a second or two to load. [[User:Stewart|Stewart]] 13:26, 6 November 2011 (PST)
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:For the [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Template:Overheal_tool first result] it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. [[User:Jh34ghu43gu|Jh34ghu43gu]] ([[User talk:Jh34ghu43gu|talk]]) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 +
::I can take a look, thanks for the ping. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
  
::{{c|Support}} unless it lags it too much, although it isn't activating for me on Wowpedia. [[File:User Rocket Ship BBQ Awesomepyro.png|24px]][[User:Rocket Ship BBQ|Rocket Ship BBQ]]([[File:Speech voice.png|20px|link=User talk:Rocket Ship BBQ]][[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Rocket Ship BBQ]]) 13:39, 6 November 2011 (PST)
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:::Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.
 +
:::I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::::+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
  
::{{c|Support}} It's cool and it works and I can see it's uses. Do et. -[[User:RJackson|<span class="modbg" style="margin-right:1px;text-shadow: #538237 1px 1px 0px;">RJ</span>]] 15:32, 6 November 2011 (PST)
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== A technical request for "Used by" template ==
  
::{{c|Support}} Just tested it out and it works great. Looks very nice and would prove to be useful. You have my support. <span style="font-family:TF2 Build;font-size:17px;color:#a13434;">MogDog66[[File:User MogDog66 Service Metal No WhiteSpace.png|24px|link=User:MogDog66]]</span> 15:44, 6 November 2011 (PST)
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"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "<nowiki>{{Used by|all}}</nowiki>" and "<nowiki>{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}</nowiki>" sound fine, but "<nowiki>{{Used by|all-except|</nowiki>" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "<nowiki>{{Used by|all-except|</nowiki>"):
 +
:Scout = Skauta
 +
:Soldier = Żołnierza
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:Pyro = Pyro
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:Demoman = Demomana
 +
:Heavy = Grubego
 +
:Enginner = Inżyniera
 +
:Medic = Medyka
 +
:Sniper = Snajpera
 +
:Spy = Szpiega
 +
[[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
  
::{{c|Support}} Would be useful. {{n}} [[User:Cructo|{{tf2b|text=Cructo|size=15px}}]] <span style="font-size:10px"><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:Cructo|T]]<nowiki>][</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Cructo|C]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></span> 17:05, 6 November 2011 (PST)
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:These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
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::Thanks. I've moved it there. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
  
== Misc incompatibility / compatibility  ==
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== Where can I interact with the community? ==
  
There is something I have been curious about for a while but not sure if we should list it.
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Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.
Should the team team fortress wiki have on each misc page compatible and incompatible miscs listed with one another?. This would be used to inform people of what they can and can't equip with one another to stop them from wasting time/money getting their ideal miscs only to find out they wont go together.
 
Thoughts please? '''<span style="font-family:aharoni; font-size:110%; font-style:italic;">[[File:RED Überneedle.png|42px|link=User:Lexar]] - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User:Lexar|Lexar]]</span> - <span style="text-decoration:underline">[[User talk:Lexar|talk]]</span></span>''' 01:54, 6 November 2011 (PDT)
 
  
: Compatibility is quite apparent from the equip regions, I think. [[File:User nVis s.png|link=User:nVis]] 01:58, 6 November 2011 (PDT)
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[[User:QS Quark|QS Quark]] ([[User talk:QS Quark|talk]]) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
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:You can join the [[IRC]] if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
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== April fool's? ==
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I've been absent a bit because of health issues lately, sorry, but I noticed there's no April Fools thing this year there? :(--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
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: Probably, yes. Since I didn't notice anything relate to April fools event other than the page itself (normally there will be someone create a April fools sandbox page before April fools event).[[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 03:45, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
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::The only thing that was planned was a patch, no other efforts were made, unfortunately.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 08:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 19:22, 20 April 2024


Dark Mode

I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Valve Store

The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal

Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the Robot Chicken Hat page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes (Cotton Head, Brotherhood of Arms, etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model

Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the Soldier's Stash, Horrible Horns on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin (Texas Half-Pants, Millennial Mercenary's Streaming 2Fort style, Exquisite Rack, Battle Bob's With Helmet style, Bacteria Blocker's Headphones style, etc).

Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on Decorated Veteran since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).

Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.

Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.

Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The Mann-Bird of Aberdeen looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like Team Captain for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I would support every page having both team colours.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Articles for individual environmental hazards

Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: Ghost, Pumpkin bomb, Saw blade, and Train.

These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "[Train horn noises]". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the Environmental death article.

I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to Pitfall.

As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:

  • Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
  • Create a separate page for that (similar to the Item timeline pages).
  • Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).

I am ok with Skeletons and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).

Opinions? - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to List of game modes, where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by == Section title ==) would be a "complete" article.
Tiagoquix (talk) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

A request

In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because Classic and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use {{ucfirst:<string>}} to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, {{ucfirst:hello world}} generates Hello world.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Could you help me with this? I've changed it in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{lang}} template instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
I already did it once and... User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{lang incomplete}}?
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with this edit? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link [[VintageVintage]].
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history

I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. The American Boot (talk) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed Trivia guild.Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard (talk) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The Art Pass Contest page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts

I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the Lollichop, which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the Third Degree and Neon Annihilator, which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the Cow Mangler 5000, Scottish Resistance, and Ullapool Caber, which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the Vita-Saw, which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.

I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.

Speaking of the Pyro taunts page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization

'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

See Dictionary common strings.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work

[[1]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nonolemage (talk) • (contribs) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC

Please sign your messages using ~~~~.
The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc

Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:


1) Implement a way on the Item infobox template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:

a) The Heavy variant of the Team Captain only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.

b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of Close Quarters Cover, include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME.

c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the Dead Little Buddy have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO.

d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the Jumper's Jeepcap would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like Mustachioed Mann, would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like Carl that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.


2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.


3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo


4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see this page). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK

a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.


5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, Main Cast would look like this: https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs.


6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the Robot Chicken Hat page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like Dead of Night wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.

Edit: Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally looked like this. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.

I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.


7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, Brawling Buccaneer would have its Painted variants table from {{Painted variants}} to {{Painted variants full}}, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.


8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as Manndatory Attire, Beaten and Bruised and Boarder's Beanie‎), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6


Edit: 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. Manndatory Attire has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.

a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.

b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like Onimann mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.


Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
4/5. I like this.
6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{Tabs}} template for it.
7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{Tabs}}.
9. See answer on 1.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram plus.png Agree - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
2 / 3 Pictogram question.png Not sure / changes - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree - This also looks nice.
5 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.
6 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
7 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
8 Pictogram plus.png Agree / changes - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
9 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.
Andrew360 Edit icon.png Speech typing.png Photo Badge Decal Example.png 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
2 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Good idea!
3 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Yes.
5 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
6 Pictogram plus.png Agree - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
7 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Same with Andrew360
8 Pictogram question.png Not sure - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{Tabs}}?
9 Pictogram question.png Disagree.. or Sorta Agree - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard (talk) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
2 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I wanna see how it would look first.
3 Pictogram plus.png Agree - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
4 Pictogram plus.png Strongly agree - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
5 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I like the idea, but it will take a lot of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
6 Pictogram question.png Not sure - Same answer as 5.
7 Pictogram plus.png Agree - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
8 Pictogram minus.png Somewhat disagree - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
9 Pictogram minus.png Strongly disagree - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
ShadowMan44 (talk) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.
However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.
GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.
GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the Boarder's Beanie paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.
My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.
ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.
Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something Liquor Locker, Pocket-Medes, etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.
Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like Manndatory Attire and Boarder's Beanie wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?
ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the Dead of Night and Pocket-Medes. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
So Tekinz and Mgpt talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:
Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.
mgpt:
Pictogram plus.png Agree 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";
Pictogram plus.png Agree 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 4. You got my vote, very good;
Pictogram minus.png Disagree 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;
Pictogram info.png Info 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in Brigade Helm? If so, I don't see a problem;
Pictogram info.png Info 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;
Pictogram info.png Info 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of Beaten and Bruised, the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;
Pictogram info.png Info I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:
7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of Stout Shako;
7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. Post-thoughts: After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.
8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the Boarder's Beanie images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.
9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 Pictogram question.png Not sure It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.
2/3 Pictogram plus.png Agree It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)
5 Pictogram minus.png Disagree On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.
6 Pictogram question.png Not sure I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.
7 Pictogram question.png Not sure I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.
8 Pictogram plus.png Agree I agree with the others on this point, {{Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.
9 Pictogram minus.png Disagree See #8
H20verdrive (talk) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:
1. Pictogram plus.png Agree Very good stuff.
2. Pictogram question.png Abstain Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.
3. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.
4. Pictogram plus.png Agree Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.
5. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree Seems alright.
6. Pictogram question.png Abstain It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.
7. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.
8. Pictogram plus.png Agree Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.
9. Pictogram minus.png Weak Disagree As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.
Overall, if I had to give a vote for the whole package, Pictogram plus.png Agree, with tweaking.--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:
Suggestion 1 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 7 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 2 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 7 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 3 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 9 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 4 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 10 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 0
Suggestion 5 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 4 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 4 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 6 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 4 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 4
Suggestion 7 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 8 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 8 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 8 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 9 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 2 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 3 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 4

My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Userbox, and creator page

Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? Nonolemage (talk) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

For userboxes see Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{User infobox}}.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Help:Images may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using the upload page. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include [[Category:User images]] in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.
As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! Nonolemage (talk) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Civilian Image

Should we change the image of the Civilian ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found Nonolemage (talk) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, Civilian (Classic) is the TFC version.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Weapon in user page

Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? Nonolemage (talk) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, you could try learning how to use wikitables, there are also templates like Template:Backpack item and Template:User weapon checklist you could use to this effect.
Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Allweapons Nav template

Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current Allweapons Nav template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on my sandbox user page (Nav 1 and Nav 2). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! Mgpt (talk) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences Mgpt (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. Mgpt (talk) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.

Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."

  • That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
  • It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
I made some changes, thanks for the input Mgpt (talk) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make as much sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... Mgpt (talk) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Updated the template Mgpt (talk) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

About the 2023 leak

Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) Nonolemage (talk) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the leaked content policy. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) Nonolemage (talk) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! Nonolemage (talk) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Community Medal Nav (closed)

I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance Mgpt (talk) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Would adding an 'Other' section with two links for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "Competitive play" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?
Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion Mgpt (talk) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). — Tark 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not exactly the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what I wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then that's wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely.
Cheddar (talk) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.
I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.
Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. — Tark 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.
I would fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. Mgpt (talk) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
That didn't matter when some of those event pages, for years, had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a new nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.
Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
closed given the recent discussion Mgpt (talk) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Trivias without confirmations

Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
What about this one? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data

It seems like a very handy feature (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?
I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe Darkid?
Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

For the first result it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. Jh34ghu43gu (talk) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
I can take a look, thanks for the ping. Darkid « TalkContribs » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.
I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. Darkid « TalkContribs » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

A technical request for "Used by" template

"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "{{Used by|all}}" and "{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}" sound fine, but "{{Used by|all-except|" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "{{Used by|all-except|"):

Scout = Skauta
Soldier = Żołnierza
Pyro = Pyro
Demoman = Demomana
Heavy = Grubego
Enginner = Inżyniera
Medic = Medyka
Sniper = Snajpera
Spy = Szpiega

User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. I've moved it there. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Where can I interact with the community?

Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.

QS Quark (talk) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

You can join the IRC if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

April fool's?

I've been absent a bit because of health issues lately, sorry, but I noticed there's no April Fools thing this year there? :(--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Probably, yes. Since I didn't notice anything relate to April fools event other than the page itself (normally there will be someone create a April fools sandbox page before April fools event).Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 03:45, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
The only thing that was planned was a patch, no other efforts were made, unfortunately.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 08:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)