User talk:MCandRBfan

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Hello, MCandRBfan!

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-- WelcomeBOT (talk) 02:28, 5 December 2017 (PST)

Updates as page content.

Regarding the recent Scout Robot and Heavy Robot edits. Changes to game elements are generally not written in to pages, as, best explained, it clutters the articles. Yes, the December 6, 2013 Patch just says "Rebalanced Empire Escalation." I do not know where to put the information you have researched about the details of the Empire Escalation rebalance, if anywhere in the wiki, but I do not think it is Trivia. Mikado282 (talk) 14:05, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

alright, noted. --MCandRBfan (talk) 14:14, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Not picking on you.

I am not picking on you. I monitor the Recent Changes/en. Normally, if I see grammatical errors in an edit, I go ahead and scan the whole article, if I haven already -- haven't the time for that these days, though. Mikado282 (talk) 22:53, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

I don't really mind actually, I'm just happy to know someone else that cares about MvM and helping me to improve. After all this is the TF2 WIKI and ?action=history exists.

Lately I haven't got more info I want to edit about yet --MCandRBfan (talk) 12:32, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

BTW, use colons (:) to inset replies. Also, do you use Preview before saving your edit? Mikado282 (talk) 03:32, 28 February 2018 (UTC)


Ah ok, I only use Preview if I'm not confident the edit will be perfect. (Trying out new code, edits with many text)--MCandRBfan (talk) 15:15, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
As perfect as Anyar might say I am, I use Preview repeatedly on the same edit. Some may take your repeated edits on a page to be a lack of Preview. I have checked -- most of the time, subsequent edits you make to the same page in the same session are to different sections, not corrections of edit mistakes, so. Mikado282 (talk) 23:31, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
Ok, I will do that in the future. --MCandRBfan (talk) 02:03, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Originally

What is your source on the original intent of the Hyper League Scouts and Wave 3's Pyro-bots? Mikado282 (talk) 02:46, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

I checked the mission's code to make a Pre-Nerf Empire Escalation Mission. Then I saw these codes. Pictures coming up soon--MCandRBfan (talk) 11:55, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Here are the pictures. Taken in a mobile phone cause I'm not using the PC yet, sorry.:
The first two trivia points seem to be extractions of hidden content from present code, which seems to be fair game, although I would wonder if it's more unused content rather than trivia, but I am not worried about that. The last two trivia points seemed to be descriptions of prior content replaced by patches, which is not necessarily cricket for trivia. What caught my attention was the term "originally", which had me wondering if a workshop page was a source. I see that Tark has edited this topic so maybe he's cool with it, but maybe he was looking at something else. I appreciate the effort, but I did not need the pictures, so, if you don't see the need to have them visible, you can hide them. Mikado282 (talk) 19:36, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
Tthe last two points aren't from Pre-Nerf Empire Escalation, they were there when the mission was made public. This is a comparison of the old Empire Escalation and the new Empire Escalation Mission file. It's likely the dev wanted it to be that way but later changed plans.--MCandRBfan (talk) 00:31, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
(last three points, now) OK, thank you for the explanation. I am not particularly qualified technically here. You are comparing pre-release robot code with released code? Perhaps I am not familiar enough to understand the distinction between "Empire Escalation" and "Empire Escalation Mission", or what are the "old" and "new". Are you only comparing pre-release and release files? You may want to ask another opinion on this, but as I understand it, changes developers make before release is not particularly Trivia. Certainly, edits about pre-release changes made to Community maps have been reverted. YMMV WRT Valve dev content. Mikado282 (talk) 02:55, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

User MCandRBfan Proofy2.png Second half

The Pyro-bots in wave 3

User MCandRBfan Proofy3.png

Original design for wave 5 Hyper League Scouts

User MCandRBfan Proofy4.png

Something else I found and will edit about soon:

Demoman bots's original intention wave 3

User MCandRBfan Proofy5.png --MCandRBfan (talk) 12:15, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Operation Memes vs Machines bot images

So I've seen all of your bot icon rips, and I'm wondering if you could get bot icon rips from the Memes vs Machines missions, like WelcomeToMyMine. Pyro emblem RED.png BeingAwesom Pyro emblem RED.png (talk · contribs) 14:21, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Alright, might do that when I have time. All icons may not be ripped today MCandRBfan (talk) 08:52, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
Ok I ran into a problem so there may be very few icons ripped OR no icons ripped at all, I can teach you how to rip the icons, it's really easy
Do you know what exactly the problem is? Pyro emblem RED.png BeingAwesom Pyro emblem RED.png (talk · contribs) 12:03, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
The problem is that I don't have my laptop anymorr. I forgotten mines is now unusable because I accidentally spilled water on it back in December 2018. Though I asked some friends to help me export the bot icons, all of the bot icons won't be uploaded today though.
I uploaded almost all of the Memes Vs Machines event bot icons, 18 bot icons are yet to be exported so they may be uploaded tomorrow :)

Welcome to my mine

Thanks for making page for a mission that I (technicaly) co-created. I dont know why you did this but thanks
Also why did you delete me from creators please respond quicky
FiatSeicento 19:08, 8 August 2019 (UTC)FiatSeicento

Uh, because you don't have the gatebot role?
User MCandRBfan IMG 20190809 184406.png
MCandRBfan (talk) 10:43, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Yeah but im still a co-creator. I got role removed because I did too less to get role (and mini drama), but im still co-creator. Also OneOfWonders doesnt have gatebot role too. Here's the annoucement with me as creator https://steamcommunity.com/groups/potatomvmservers#announcements/detail/1782771075735885615
14:52, 9 August 2019 (UTC)FiatSeicento

Wonders doesn't has a gatebot role? That's strange. In the advanced shiverpeak popfile, Wonders left her name in it so Wonders's name will stay. About yours, I'll ask the staff about this, as the event post is months old. MCandRBfan (talk) 08:27, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

I've been following this for a while now, and the staff really don't have anything to do with it. The initial announcement is enough to prove he is one of the creators, therefore his name stays.
GrampaSwood (talk) 08:30, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Didn't the staff made that old announcement and give mission makers / mappers the gatebot role if they made something for their events? The announcement is months old too, shouldn't he have it by now? Also, Fiat can you post images of the staff telling why you lost your gatebot role? And the mini drama too? I'm going to continue finding out why Wonders doesn't has the gatebot role. MCandRBfan (talk) 09:01, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
I am legitimately surprised how far this situation spiraled out of control.
Admin of Potato's (and ex-judge, the main guy behind Memes vs Machines contest) here. (And yes, I don't think I can explain our side thoroughly without a massive wall of text).
TL;DR - Fiat did nothing for Gatebot role/contributor status; Wonders wanted her role removed.
To clarify this mess, yes, during development of the April Fools contest, we (staff/judge crew) actually thought Fiat put his fair share of effort, in form of icons (which is why he is on outdated announcements no-one can be bothered, or even thought to update along all the job we're doing for Madness right now).
"Ideas guy" contribution are usually too up in the air to really know how much effort went in, and that excuse has been used for ages to "clown-car" into contests, not only at Potato's.
The problem is, roughly 3 monthes later, Fiat himself slipped and said in one of channels in discord that he only sourced images for icons.
Usually to make icon you have to go through some software layer (be it VTFEdit or plugin for paint.net) for image to be recognisable, plus knowing what settings work and do not for icons, and making a .vmt file for said texture.
But even that wasn't done in this case, so it was agreed upon that Gatebot role (since Fiat didn't help with any other mission) should be removed, much to his dismay and attempts to regain it back in variety of ways, on and off Potato's. (If question asked to one of admins isn't enough, I can dig up dialogue between many of us confirming the decision)
Furthermore, reaching out today to Delta (the other mission creator on Discord), he also said that Fiat didn't even do that.
Regarding The One Of Wonders situation, one day she simply didn't want the role and attention that comes with it. So we simply removed it. I don't recall anyone else raising fuss about it. /shrug\
Although considering effort she put in popfile (aka most of popfile originally written by her, that can be confirmed if you want to dig through CC judging/testing demos), I think she can be kept as contributor/developer on wiki. NukeDukem (talk) 10:59, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
When were the medals given out? Fiat has the medal. "Ideas guy" contributions have always been mentioned on the wiki as contributors (mostly because it's from workshop contributors).
If a name would later be removed from the workshop contribution page (because the rest of the contributors agreed he didnt do much) it would still be counted as a contributor on the wiki. The fact that you put him in the announcement as a co-creator and gave him the medal and the role for a while is really where this discussion ends for me. I personally think, just like most if not all other contributions, the "ideas guy" is a valid contributor to any project. After all, without the idea there is no project. So for me, I just say keep him as a contributor. In my opinion, listing him as a contributor and giving him the medal first then backtracking and wanting him not to be a contributor is just not a valid reason. About the last part with the "One Of Wonders" situation, regardless if she wants it or not she's still the creator and therefore gets credited.
GrampaSwood (talk) 11:35, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
I'm mad
FiatSeicento 11:25, 10 August 2019 (UTC)FiatSeicento
Interrobang here. I'm the guy that actually wrote the announcement (alongside Hydro). My stance on the matter is: he has the Memes vs Machines creator's medal, so he should be listed as a contributor to the campaign mission regardless of his gatebot status. This has spiraled out of control, but while we don't consider him an actual mission maker (and hence, removed his gatebot role) we didn't have a clear rule in place for listing contributors, so he should be "grandfathered" in. I would prefer this matter ends with Fiat's contributor status being added to the Memes vs Machines and Welcometomymine page. He will remain without the gatebot role, however.
Interrobang TF2 (talk) 11:55, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Regardless of Fiat not being eligible as a contributor, you must keep in mind that he were still given a medal for his "unintentional" mission idea. It doesn't seem very ethical to grant someone an award for their contirbution, only to revoke it later because they deem the user not worthy of it - in which case the medal shouldn't have been distributed in the first place, nor should he had been given the role.
The fact that Fiat was still given a medal and even mentioned as a contributor for the alluded map still proves them as a contributor regardless of how much they contributed. This was a decision made by the staff of Potato's - and once such status is given, it cannot be revoked. So yes, Fiat will stay listed as contributor. User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png Wookipan (talk | contribs) 12:11, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
I'm glad! Though regarding the gatebot role fiasco, I should clarify that we didn't learn until 3 months after the fact that all Fiat did was provide Delta a link to a website for minecraft images (which eventually became mission icons). It may seem petty that we removed his Gatebot role for it but we reserve the role not only for contributors to accepted submissions, but as a status symbol for mission, map, and icon creators. While he did provide a website to gather minecraft mission icons from, we're looking for something along the lines of this.
At the time, he was given benefit of the doubt (like all our co-contributors) and we assumed he helped with mission creation. However when we realized that wasn't the case, we felt the gatebot role wasn't appropriate anymore.
Interrobang TF2 (talk) 12:43, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Notepad

You can save all your progress on Notepad++ (I probably dont need to explain to you why it's better than regular notepad) or on a custom page like User:MCandRBfan/sandbox
GrampaSwood (talk) 18:43, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Alright, next time when the same situation happens again I will do that MCandRBfan (talk) 04:48, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Oxidize Trivia

I was checking out your Oxidize gallery. Pre and post-release changes are generally not Trivia, in part because changes are listed in Change Log and Update history section. I don't know if unreleased map changes get a pass on this. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 15:43, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Oxidize's trivia is gone for now but the rc3 images will be kept because I'm not sure if removing them from the page is a good decision MCandRBfan (talk) 08:58, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. I don't know about the development pictures. I don't recall examples of anything like that on the wiki. I checked likely candidates for that, Asteroid and Cactus Canyon, but nope. I would not ask to have them deleted from the upload, but they should be given their own subcategory of Oxidize images, if they haven't already.M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 18:20, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
Do not worry because Category:Oxidize images already exists, I accidentally noticed that map images have their own categories so I made one for Oxidize. I'll leave the rc3 images at the Oxidize page for now MCandRBfan (talk) 06:26, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

About the WelcomeToMyMine trivia

Hi there,

You added trivia to the WTMM mission page about 2 well-known toxic users in mvm. This kind of trivia (especially with Steam profile links) isn't acceptable, and just looks like a call for witch hunting.
I'm just informing you that the trivia was removed and you should not add it back.
GrampaSwood (talk) 14:29, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Ah, ok MCandRBfan (talk) 14:45, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
Yes, please never link and/or allude to users in a negative way, as this would be considered Naming and Shaming as in said entry. Regardless of the behavior of the alluded users, the Wiki should not be used as a tool for witch-hunting and will strongly discourage it. User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png Wookipan (talk | contribs) 14:59, 21 September 2019 (UTC)