Difference between revisions of "User:RotatcepS/plans"

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(created from notes in app I'm making)
 
m (possible new spread reps)
 
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I am calculating observed point blank damage at ramp up using an offset to get the observed achievable values, lower than raw calculation.  "offset" is a value usually based on shounic's video on projectile origins (this may not be a valid source to the wiki rules)... it's an offset such that 32 means no spacing (true point blank) and 0 means 32 spacing.  Many are 23.5 offset, so 6.5 spacing.  video doesn't talk about hitscan weapons so I made up numbers that meet the observations.  Mostly 25 offset (7 spacing).
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The point is, you can't shoot somebody from inside of them - collision boxes keep you more than 0 HU apart.
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Discussion:
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Follow-up question: I'm tempted to add a page on the wiki with a table that summarizes the 78 ctx files' information as useful source information.  But it would need updates over time (or at least a Date Stamp).  It has info that can be useful, questionable value, and semi-misleading (like a Spread value on the pomson or Range which is useful on 2 files, but others have 0, 4096, 8192).
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0.0675 game value results in damage table:
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* Spread Cone: {{tooltip|7.735°|always hits a 25Hu diameter (body width) target from 185Hu (11.5ft) away}}
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* Pellet/Bullet Spread: 15 : 1
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* Spread Accuracy: {{tooltip|185Hu (11.5ft)|always hits a 25Hu diameter (body width) target (spread value of 0.0675 rad)}}
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[[Minigun]]
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(copy to iron curtain. Tomislav needs different DPS & remove "s" while updating interval tip). Custom values for Natascha, Brass Beast, Huo-long reg & on fire)
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14-54 / 1 ammo<br/>129-514 / s
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However, I'll probably come back later with evidence of something like:  13-52 / 1 ammo & 125-500 / s
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9-36 / 1 ammo<br/>86-343 / s
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5-19 / 1 ammo<br/>48-190 / s
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27 / bullet<br/>1029 / s max
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{{tooltip|12.15|Long range}}-{{tooltip|18.225|Point blank}} / bullet<br/>{{tooltip|467|Long range}}-{{tooltip|695|Point blank}} / s max <!-- different close range likely in the future-->
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bullet count = 4
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attack interval = 0.105 s <!-- other pages include the s -->
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  damage ranges should mirror shotguns (1-4 bullets possible any range, leave tooltips for special cases, use bullet count); PerSecond=round((1/AttackInterval)*round(BulletDamage*OneOrFour)); s on attack interval on other pages
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'''Will have to change flamethrower DPS format to match this.'''
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(Manta March 2013 edit added tooltip instead of setting bullet count)
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[[Natascha]]
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10.125/bullet
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10-41 / 1 ammo<br/>95-390 / s
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7-27 / 1 ammo<br/>67-257 / s
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4-14 / 1 ammo<br/>38-133 / s
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20.25 / bullet<br/>771 / s max
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{{tooltip|9.1125|Long range}}-{{tooltip|13.6688|Point blank}} / bullet<br/>{{tooltip|343|Long range}}-{{tooltip|524|Point blank}} / s max
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[[Brass Beast]]
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16-65 / 1 ammo<br/>152-619 / s
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11-43 / 1 ammo<br/>105-410 / s
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6-23 / 1 ammo<br/>57-219 / s
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32.4 / bullet<br/>1238 / s max
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{{tooltip|14.58|Long range}}-{{tooltip|21.8415|Point blank}} / bullet<br/>{{tooltip|552|Long range}}-{{tooltip|829|Point blank}} / s max
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[[Tomislav]] minigun with lower DPS (and higher accuracy)
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14-54 / 1 ammo<br/>117-450 / s
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9-36 / 1 ammo<br/>75-292 / s
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5-19 / 1 ammo<br/>42-158 / s
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27 / bullet<br/>900 / s max
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{{tooltip|12.15|Long range}}-{{tooltip|18.225|Point blank}} / bullet<br/>{{tooltip|408|Long range}}-{{tooltip|608|Point blank}} / s max
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[[Huo-Long Heater]]
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{{tooltip|12-49|15-61 on already burning enemies}} / 1 ammo<br/>{{tooltip|114-467|143-581 on already burning enemies}} / s
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{{tooltip|8-32|10-41 on already burning enemies}} / 1 ammo<br/>{{tooltip|76-305|95-390 on already burning enemies}} / s
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{{tooltip|4-17|5-21 on already burning enemies}} / 1 ammo<br/>{{tooltip|38-162|48-200 on already burning enemies}} / s
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{{tooltip|24.3|30.375 on already burning enemies}} / bullet<br/>{{tooltip|924|1162 on already burning enemies}} / s max
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{{tooltip|10.935-16.3811|13.6688-20.4764 on already burning enemies}} / bullet<br/>{{tooltip|419-629 / s max|524-781 on already burning enemies}}
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  burning target numbers in crit/min-crit tooltips are bad math for 25% increase. I haven't done video testing yet, but I suspect Andreng made a mistake using cold weapons or something - no evidence listed for me to check.
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[[Crusader's Crossbow#Damage_and_function_times|Crusader's Crossbow]]
 
[[Crusader's Crossbow#Damage_and_function_times|Crusader's Crossbow]]
* TODO Wiki has nonsense crit & minicrit values of 113 & 51 on the low end when I've observed 115 & 52 (matches calc)
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* TODO Wiki has theoretical crit & minicrit values of 113 & 51 on the low end when I've observed practical ones of 115 & 52
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* should point blanks be theoretical or achievable?
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* evidence 38: https://youtu.be/ivCOJvt5YDc?t=33 minicrit 52: https://youtu.be/ivCOJvt5YDc?t=68 crit 115 https://youtu.be/ivCOJvt5YDc?t=89
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* why? I believe it's ramped 50% at 0 hang time, but minimum hang time at point blank results in 38.17..38.4 damage instead of 75/2=37.5 (all round to 38).  38.4*1.35=51.84 (rounds to 52); 38.4*3=115.2 (rounds to 115)
  
 
[[Rescue Ranger#Damage_and_function_times|Rescue Ranger]]
 
[[Rescue Ranger#Damage_and_function_times|Rescue Ranger]]
* TODO RescueRanger wiki mini-crit max of 72 is nonsense (obs and calc agree to 81)
 
  
[[Pistol#Damage_and_function_times|Pistol]]
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[[Pistol#Damage_and_function_times|Pistol]] (engineer)
* TODO wiki spread 48:1, calc rounding issue 47.4999repeating
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Also, pistol effective close is 149.3% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 22 observed, not 23 that 150% would give you.
  
 
[[Short Circuit#Damage_and_function_times|Short Circuit]]
 
[[Short Circuit#Damage_and_function_times|Short Circuit]]
 
* 7 damage but point blank ~150% ramp up for 10 damage, max range is still 125% ramp up for 9 damage
 
* 7 damage but point blank ~150% ramp up for 10 damage, max range is still 125% ramp up for 9 damage
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** robot arm.ctx or whatever it is, extracted with GCFScape, decoded with VICE, shows Damage: 7 and Range:256.  If you believe this, give point blank 150% ramp up (but, like the pistol, achievable is only 149.3%), and believe the max range (effective ramp is 125%), the values match what I've observed: 10 point blank (14 minicrit), 9 at range. I observed 13 minicrit at range, calc says it should be 12 - I'll need to do more tests to see if I can observe a 12.
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* does energy ball do reduced building damage, too? https://youtu.be/f7yiwdxZzw0?t=177 says it doesn't.
  
[[Pistol#Damage_and_function_times|Pistol]]
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[[Pistol#Damage_and_function_times|Pistol]] (scout)
* TODO wiki spread 48:1, calc rounding issue 47.4999repeating
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Also, pistol effective close is 149.3% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 22 observed, not 23 that 150% would give you.
  
 
[[Winger#Damage_and_function_times|Winger]]
 
[[Winger#Damage_and_function_times|Winger]]
* TODO wiki spread 48:1, calc rounding issue 47.4999repeating
 
 
* Wiki 1.10 reload was based on scout pistol that since was proven as 1.005
 
* Wiki 1.10 reload was based on scout pistol that since was proven as 1.005
  
 
[[Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol#Damage_and_function_times|Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol]]
 
[[Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol#Damage_and_function_times|Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol]]
* TODO wiki spread 48:1, calc rounding issue 47.4999repeating
 
 
* Wiki 1.10 reload was based on scout pistol that since was proven as 1.005
 
* Wiki 1.10 reload was based on scout pistol that since was proven as 1.005
 +
Also, pistol effective close is 149.3% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 22 observed, not 23 that 150% would give you.
  
 
[[Rocket Launcher#Damage_and_function_times|Rocket Launcher]]
 
[[Rocket Launcher#Damage_and_function_times|Rocket Launcher]]
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
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Thus, RL effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 112 observed, not 113 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 151 observed vs 152 at 125%)
  
 
[[direct hit#Damage_and_function_times|direct hit]]
 
[[direct hit#Damage_and_function_times|direct hit]]
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* Wiki base rounded down from 112.5, game conditions on similar cases seem to round up...right?
 
* Wiki base rounded down from 112.5, game conditions on similar cases seem to round up...right?
 
* radius on wiki is rounded - is that editor simplifying or is that how the game uses it?
 
* radius on wiki is rounded - is that editor simplifying or is that how the game uses it?
 +
Thus, direct hit effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 149 observed, not 141 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 189 observed vs 190 at 125%)
  
 
[[Black Box#Damage_and_function_times|Black Box]]
 
[[Black Box#Damage_and_function_times|Black Box]]
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
 +
Thus, RL effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 112 observed, not 113 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 151 observed vs 152 at 125%)
  
 
[[Liberty Launcher#Damage_and_function_times|Liberty Launcher]]
 
[[Liberty Launcher#Damage_and_function_times|Liberty Launcher]]
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[[Cow Mangler 5000#Damage_and_function_times|Cow Mangler 5000]]
 
[[Cow Mangler 5000#Damage_and_function_times|Cow Mangler 5000]]
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
 +
Thus, RL effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 112 observed, not 113 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 151 observed vs 152 at 125%)
  
 
[[Beggar's Bazooka#Damage_and_function_times|Beggar's Bazooka]]
 
[[Beggar's Bazooka#Damage_and_function_times|Beggar's Bazooka]]
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
 +
Thus, RL effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 112 observed, not 113 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 151 observed vs 152 at 125%)
 +
Also, 3 degrees in radians is 0.0523599, so spread of 38:1
  
 
[[Air Strike#Damage_and_function_times|Air Strike]]
 
[[Air Strike#Damage_and_function_times|Air Strike]]
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* base 76.5 wiki rounds down, also wiki-ramp-up & point-blank don't agree, nor do wiki base and medium
 
* base 76.5 wiki rounds down, also wiki-ramp-up & point-blank don't agree, nor do wiki base and medium
 
* TODO my calc (now) & my obs & point blank wiki of 95; wiki Ramp as 96 (my calc USED to do that too)
 
* TODO my calc (now) & my obs & point blank wiki of 95; wiki Ramp as 96 (my calc USED to do that too)
 
+
Thus, air strike effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 95 observed, not 96 that 125% would give you.
  
 
[[Shotgun#Damage_and_function_times|Shotgun]]
 
[[Shotgun#Damage_and_function_times|Shotgun]]
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* this is consistent with (6*52.8%=)3.168/pellet: 3.168, 6.336, 9.504, 12.672, 15.84, (19.008), 22.176, (25.344, 28.512, 31.68);
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*  seen at range minicrit (6*1.35=8.1)8, (16.2)16, (24.3)24, (32.4)32, (40.5)41, (48.6)49, (not seen: 56.7=57, 64.8=65, 72.9=73, 81);
 +
*  seen crit (6*3=)18, 36(18x2), 54(x3), 72(x4), 90(x5), 108(x6), 126(x7), 144(x8), 162(x9), 180(x10)
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* CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets)  (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
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*  seen at pb: 9, 18, 27, ... 90;
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*  seen at pb minicrit: 12(12.15), 24(24.3), 36(36.45), (not seen 48.6), 60(NO MATCH 5*9*1.35=60.75), ... 121(NO MATCH 10*9*1.35=121.5)
 
* wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
 
* wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
* Wiki Long range all pellets is as if 50%, not 52.8%??
 
* TODO wiki spread 30:1, but calc is 28:1 (28.148repeating). Spread based on 0.0675 - wiki shotgun discussion proof shows that yet mistakenly still uses 0.0625
 
* CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match obs) or <150%
 
* TODO wiki all pellets far 30, but calc is 32, need evidence
 
  
 
[[Reserve Shooter#Damage_and_function_times|Reserve Shooter]]
 
[[Reserve Shooter#Damage_and_function_times|Reserve Shooter]]
* wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
+
* (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets)  (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
* Wiki Long range all pellets is as if 50%, not 52.8%??
+
* (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
* TODO wiki spread 30:1, but calc is 28:1 (28.148repeating). Spread based on 0.0675 - wiki shotgun discussion proof shows that yet mistakenly still uses 0.0625
+
* seen minicrit at range: 8, 16, 24, 32, 41
* CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match obs) or <150%
 
* TODO wiki all pellets far 30, but calc is 32, need evidence
 
  
 
[[Panic Attack#Damage_and_function_times|Panic Attack]]
 
[[Panic Attack#Damage_and_function_times|Panic Attack]]
* wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
+
* (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets)  (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
* Wiki Long range all pellets is as if 50%, not 52.8%??
+
* (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
* TODO wiki spread 30:1, but calc is 28:1 (28.148repeating). Spread based on 0.0675 - wiki shotgun discussion proof shows that yet mistakenly still uses 0.0625
+
* seen minicrit at range (https://youtu.be/pRKZZ1z7nH4?t=57): 6, 13 (no random spread)
* CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match obs) or <150%
+
* seen crit at range: 14 29 43
* TODO wiki all pellets far 30, but calc is 32, need evidence
 
  
 
[[Family Business#Damage_and_function_times|Family Business]]
 
[[Family Business#Damage_and_function_times|Family Business]]
* wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
+
* (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
* Wiki Long range all pellets is as if 50%, not 52.8%??
 
* TODO wiki spread 30:1, but calc is 28:1 (28.148repeating). Spread based on 0.0675 - wiki shotgun discussion proof shows that yet mistakenly still uses 0.0625
 
* CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match obs) or <150%
 
* TODO wiki all pellets far 30, but calc is 32, need evidence
 
 
* obs/wiki agree close is 76, not (60*85%=51) 51*150%=76.5 rounds to 77.  That does match 'Round To Even' rule, however.
 
* obs/wiki agree close is 76, not (60*85%=51) 51*150%=76.5 rounds to 77.  That does match 'Round To Even' rule, however.
 +
* (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
 +
* seen minicrit at range: (https://youtu.be/ahJJIKJl-6M?t=37): 7, 14, 21, 28, 34
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* seen crit: 15, 31, 46, 61, 77, 122
  
 
[[Frontier Justice#Damage_and_function_times|Frontier Justice]]
 
[[Frontier Justice#Damage_and_function_times|Frontier Justice]]
* wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
+
* (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets)  (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
* Wiki Long range all pellets is as if 50%, not 52.8%??
+
* (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
* TODO wiki spread 30:1, but calc is 28:1 (28.148repeating). Spread based on 0.0675 - wiki shotgun discussion proof shows that yet mistakenly still uses 0.0625
+
* seen minicrit at range: 8, 16, 24, 32, (not seen:41), 49 (not seen: 57, 65, 73, 81)
* CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match obs) or <150%
 
* TODO wiki all pellets far 30, but calc is 32, need evidence
 
  
 
[[Widowmaker#Damage_and_function_times|Widowmaker]]
 
[[Widowmaker#Damage_and_function_times|Widowmaker]]
* wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
+
* (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets)  (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
* Wiki Long range all pellets is as if 50%, not 52.8%??
+
* (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
* TODO wiki spread 30:1, but calc is 28:1 (28.148repeating). Spread based on 0.0675 - wiki shotgun discussion proof shows that yet mistakenly still uses 0.0625
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* vs target (https://youtu.be/Mi_MPZ4BdLk): 3, 7, 10, 14, 17?, 21?, 24?
* CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match obs) or <150%
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* seen minicrit at range (https://youtu.be/vKrbbHCkI6I?t=35) 8, 16, 24, 32, 41, 49, (not seen: 56.7=57), 65, (not seen: 72.9=73, 81);
* TODO wiki all pellets far 30, but calc is 32, need evidence
 
  
 
[[Scattergun#Damage_and_function_times|Scattergun]]
 
[[Scattergun#Damage_and_function_times|Scattergun]]
 +
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
 
* wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc 142 but obs/'wiki' 141
 
* wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc 142 but obs/'wiki' 141
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
 
 
* obs close 10-104 matches my offsets and not wiki
 
* obs close 10-104 matches my offsets and not wiki
* TODO (from AShotgun) wiki spread 30:1, but calc is 28:1 (28.148repeating).  calc is 30 if I use 2.0 instead of 1.9 for spread divisor. (but back-scatter is slightly too HIGH calc, then)
+
Specifically, Scattergun effective close is 174.0% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 10-104 observed, not 11-105 that 175% would give you. (and minicrit close is 141 observed vs 142 at 175%)
* TODO (from AShotgun) wiki all pellets far 30, but calc is 32, need evidence.  30 implies 50% fall-off
 
  
 
[[Force-A-Nature#Damage_and_function_times|Force-A-Nature]]
 
[[Force-A-Nature#Damage_and_function_times|Force-A-Nature]]
 +
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
 
* minicrit 'wiki'/calc close 153, but obs 152
 
* minicrit 'wiki'/calc close 153, but obs 152
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
+
Specifically, FaN effective close is 174.0% so minicrit close is 152 observed vs 153 at 175%
* TODO wiki all pellets far 32, but calc is 34, need evidence
 
  
 
[[Shortstop#Damage_and_function_times|Shortstop]]
 
[[Shortstop#Damage_and_function_times|Shortstop]]
 
* Close range works with 30, 25 (scatter current default), also most anything else (23.5-32)
 
* Close range works with 30, 25 (scatter current default), also most anything else (23.5-32)
* TODO wiki spread 50:1, but calc is 47:1 (47.49999repeating so real math probably rounds to 48)
+
* Wiki claims "has approximately 40% less pellet spread" although it's not listed in stats (.04 same as pistol instead of .0675) pellets 4, damage 12
* TODO wiki all pellets far 24, but calc is 25, need evidence
 
* Wiki claims "has approximately 40% less pellet spread" although it's not listed in stats
 
  
 
[[Soda Popper#Damage_and_function_times|Soda Popper]]
 
[[Soda Popper#Damage_and_function_times|Soda Popper]]
 
* wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc/'wiki' 142 but obs 141
 
* wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc/'wiki' 142 but obs 141
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
 +
Specifically, Scattergun effective close is 174.0% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 10-104 observed, not 11-105 that 175% would give you. (and minicrit close is 141 observed vs 142 at 175%)
  
 
[[Baby Face's Blaster#Damage_and_function_times|Baby Face's Blaster]]
 
[[Baby Face's Blaster#Damage_and_function_times|Baby Face's Blaster]]
 
* wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc/'wiki' 142 but obs 141
 
* wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc/'wiki' 142 but obs 141
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
 +
Specifically, Scattergun effective close is 174.0% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 10-104 observed, not 11-105 that 175% would give you. (and minicrit close is 141 observed vs 142 at 175%)
  
 
[[Back Scatter#Damage_and_function_times|Back Scatter]]
 
[[Back Scatter#Damage_and_function_times|Back Scatter]]
 
* wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc/'wiki' 142 but obs 141
 
* wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc/'wiki' 142 but obs 141
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
 
* **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
* TODO, wiki says spread is 24:1, but *1.20m rounds to 23:1 (23.456790... interesting number, just missing the 8)
+
Specifically, Scattergun effective close is 174.0% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 10-104 observed, not 11-105 that 175% would give you. (and minicrit close is 141 observed vs 142 at 175%)
  
 
[[Dragon's Fury#Damage_and_function_times|Dragon's Fury]]
 
[[Dragon's Fury#Damage_and_function_times|Dragon's Fury]]
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* obs falloff 24 (calc/wiki 23); minicrit obs/wiki close 40 (calc 41); wiki mc burning 100-121 (calc 101-122)  
 
* obs falloff 24 (calc/wiki 23); minicrit obs/wiki close 40 (calc 41); wiki mc burning 100-121 (calc 101-122)  
 
* Interestingly it's 'based on' a 90dmg rocket...which is how much it gets on burning point blank hits
 
* Interestingly it's 'based on' a 90dmg rocket...which is how much it gets on burning point blank hits
 +
 +
to match wiki (23 far, 69 far on fire): 600 or 592 max range, using either 52.8% or 50% long range
 +
to match obs (24 far, 72 far on fire): 548 max range, 50% long range.  547 works, too.
 +
(to use wiki's range of 526, not even 0% long range works for wiki or observed (except it works for not-on-fire as match of observed))
 +
turns out to get obs numbers with long of 0 to 52.8 has to be max range of 530-562
 +
turns out to get wiki numbers with long of 0 to 52.8 has to be max range of 550-606
 +
 +
burning targets: My observed had 72 far, 106 minicrit far.  I should do more testing - likely 106 minicrit is just 1 minicrit afterburn (5) combined with the calculated 101 damage.
 +
Need more testing I guess.
  
  

Latest revision as of 23:40, 19 June 2023

I am calculating observed point blank damage at ramp up using an offset to get the observed achievable values, lower than raw calculation. "offset" is a value usually based on shounic's video on projectile origins (this may not be a valid source to the wiki rules)... it's an offset such that 32 means no spacing (true point blank) and 0 means 32 spacing. Many are 23.5 offset, so 6.5 spacing. video doesn't talk about hitscan weapons so I made up numbers that meet the observations. Mostly 25 offset (7 spacing). The point is, you can't shoot somebody from inside of them - collision boxes keep you more than 0 HU apart.


Discussion:

Follow-up question: I'm tempted to add a page on the wiki with a table that summarizes the 78 ctx files' information as useful source information. But it would need updates over time (or at least a Date Stamp). It has info that can be useful, questionable value, and semi-misleading (like a Spread value on the pomson or Range which is useful on 2 files, but others have 0, 4096, 8192).

0.0675 game value results in damage table:

  • Spread Cone: 7.735°
  • Pellet/Bullet Spread: 15 : 1
  • Spread Accuracy: 185Hu (11.5ft)

Minigun (copy to iron curtain. Tomislav needs different DPS & remove "s" while updating interval tip). Custom values for Natascha, Brass Beast, Huo-long reg & on fire)

14-54 / 1 ammo
129-514 / s

However, I'll probably come back later with evidence of something like: 13-52 / 1 ammo & 125-500 / s

9-36 / 1 ammo
86-343 / s

5-19 / 1 ammo
48-190 / s

27 / bullet
1029 / s max

12.15-18.225 / bullet
467-695 / s max

bullet count = 4 attack interval = 0.105 s

 damage ranges should mirror shotguns (1-4 bullets possible any range, leave tooltips for special cases, use bullet count); PerSecond=round((1/AttackInterval)*round(BulletDamage*OneOrFour)); s on attack interval on other pages 

Will have to change flamethrower DPS format to match this. (Manta March 2013 edit added tooltip instead of setting bullet count)

Natascha 10.125/bullet

10-41 / 1 ammo
95-390 / s

7-27 / 1 ammo
67-257 / s

4-14 / 1 ammo
38-133 / s

20.25 / bullet
771 / s max

9.1125-13.6688 / bullet
343-524 / s max

Brass Beast

16-65 / 1 ammo
152-619 / s

11-43 / 1 ammo
105-410 / s

6-23 / 1 ammo
57-219 / s

32.4 / bullet
1238 / s max

14.58-21.8415 / bullet
552-829 / s max

Tomislav minigun with lower DPS (and higher accuracy)

14-54 / 1 ammo
117-450 / s

9-36 / 1 ammo
75-292 / s

5-19 / 1 ammo
42-158 / s

27 / bullet
900 / s max

12.15-18.225 / bullet
408-608 / s max


Huo-Long Heater

12-49 / 1 ammo
114-467 / s

8-32 / 1 ammo
76-305 / s

4-17 / 1 ammo
38-162 / s

24.3 / bullet
924 / s max

10.935-16.3811 / bullet
419-629 / s max

 burning target numbers in crit/min-crit tooltips are bad math for 25% increase. I haven't done video testing yet, but I suspect Andreng made a mistake using cold weapons or something - no evidence listed for me to check.

Crusader's Crossbow

  • TODO Wiki has theoretical crit & minicrit values of 113 & 51 on the low end when I've observed practical ones of 115 & 52
  • should point blanks be theoretical or achievable?
  • evidence 38: https://youtu.be/ivCOJvt5YDc?t=33 minicrit 52: https://youtu.be/ivCOJvt5YDc?t=68 crit 115 https://youtu.be/ivCOJvt5YDc?t=89
  • why? I believe it's ramped 50% at 0 hang time, but minimum hang time at point blank results in 38.17..38.4 damage instead of 75/2=37.5 (all round to 38). 38.4*1.35=51.84 (rounds to 52); 38.4*3=115.2 (rounds to 115)

Rescue Ranger

Pistol (engineer) Also, pistol effective close is 149.3% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 22 observed, not 23 that 150% would give you.

Short Circuit

  • 7 damage but point blank ~150% ramp up for 10 damage, max range is still 125% ramp up for 9 damage
    • robot arm.ctx or whatever it is, extracted with GCFScape, decoded with VICE, shows Damage: 7 and Range:256. If you believe this, give point blank 150% ramp up (but, like the pistol, achievable is only 149.3%), and believe the max range (effective ramp is 125%), the values match what I've observed: 10 point blank (14 minicrit), 9 at range. I observed 13 minicrit at range, calc says it should be 12 - I'll need to do more tests to see if I can observe a 12.
  • does energy ball do reduced building damage, too? https://youtu.be/f7yiwdxZzw0?t=177 says it doesn't.

Pistol (scout) Also, pistol effective close is 149.3% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 22 observed, not 23 that 150% would give you.

Winger

  • Wiki 1.10 reload was based on scout pistol that since was proven as 1.005

Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol

  • Wiki 1.10 reload was based on scout pistol that since was proven as 1.005

Also, pistol effective close is 149.3% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 22 observed, not 23 that 150% would give you.

Rocket Launcher

  • **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).

Thus, RL effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 112 observed, not 113 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 151 observed vs 152 at 125%)

direct hit

  • **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
  • Wiki base rounded down from 112.5, game conditions on similar cases seem to round up...right?
  • radius on wiki is rounded - is that editor simplifying or is that how the game uses it?

Thus, direct hit effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 149 observed, not 141 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 189 observed vs 190 at 125%)

Black Box

  • **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).

Thus, RL effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 112 observed, not 113 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 151 observed vs 152 at 125%)

Liberty Launcher

  • **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).

Cow Mangler 5000

  • **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).

Thus, RL effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 112 observed, not 113 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 151 observed vs 152 at 125%)

Beggar's Bazooka

  • **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).

Thus, RL effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 112 observed, not 113 that 125% would give you. (and minicrit close is 151 observed vs 152 at 125%) Also, 3 degrees in radians is 0.0523599, so spread of 38:1

Air Strike

  • **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET - 125% works with all when using offset=23.5 (documented value) but NOT with 32 (no min separation).
  • base 76.5 wiki rounds down, also wiki-ramp-up & point-blank don't agree, nor do wiki base and medium
  • TODO my calc (now) & my obs & point blank wiki of 95; wiki Ramp as 96 (my calc USED to do that too)

Thus, air strike effective close is 124.6% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 95 observed, not 96 that 125% would give you.

Shotgun

  • this is consistent with (6*52.8%=)3.168/pellet: 3.168, 6.336, 9.504, 12.672, 15.84, (19.008), 22.176, (25.344, 28.512, 31.68);
  • seen at range minicrit (6*1.35=8.1)8, (16.2)16, (24.3)24, (32.4)32, (40.5)41, (48.6)49, (not seen: 56.7=57, 64.8=65, 72.9=73, 81);
  • seen crit (6*3=)18, 36(18x2), 54(x3), 72(x4), 90(x5), 108(x6), 126(x7), 144(x8), 162(x9), 180(x10)
  • CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
  • seen at pb: 9, 18, 27, ... 90;
  • seen at pb minicrit: 12(12.15), 24(24.3), 36(36.45), (not seen 48.6), 60(NO MATCH 5*9*1.35=60.75), ... 121(NO MATCH 10*9*1.35=121.5)
  • wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50

Reserve Shooter

  • (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
  • (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
  • seen minicrit at range: 8, 16, 24, 32, 41

Panic Attack

  • (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
  • (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
  • seen minicrit at range (https://youtu.be/pRKZZ1z7nH4?t=57): 6, 13 (no random spread)
  • seen crit at range: 14 29 43

Family Business

  • (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
  • obs/wiki agree close is 76, not (60*85%=51) 51*150%=76.5 rounds to 77. That does match 'Round To Even' rule, however.
  • (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
  • seen minicrit at range: (https://youtu.be/ahJJIKJl-6M?t=37): 7, 14, 21, 28, 34
  • seen crit: 15, 31, 46, 61, 77, 122

Frontier Justice

  • (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
  • (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
  • seen minicrit at range: 8, 16, 24, 32, (not seen:41), 49 (not seen: 57, 65, 73, 81)

Widowmaker

  • (shotgun) CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET or <150% (mc obs don't match calc at higher pellets) (149.3% works ... based on my interp of shounic offsets)
  • (shotgun) wiki 0.51 reload more, but derivatives all use 0.50
  • vs target (https://youtu.be/Mi_MPZ4BdLk): 3, 7, 10, 14, 17?, 21?, 24?
  • seen minicrit at range (https://youtu.be/vKrbbHCkI6I?t=35) 8, 16, 24, 32, 41, 49, (not seen: 56.7=57), 65, (not seen: 72.9=73, 81);

Scattergun

  • **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
  • wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc 142 but obs/'wiki' 141
  • obs close 10-104 matches my offsets and not wiki

Specifically, Scattergun effective close is 174.0% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 10-104 observed, not 11-105 that 175% would give you. (and minicrit close is 141 observed vs 142 at 175%)

Force-A-Nature

  • **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)
  • minicrit 'wiki'/calc close 153, but obs 152

Specifically, FaN effective close is 174.0% so minicrit close is 152 observed vs 153 at 175%

Shortstop

  • Close range works with 30, 25 (scatter current default), also most anything else (23.5-32)
  • Wiki claims "has approximately 40% less pellet spread" although it's not listed in stats (.04 same as pistol instead of .0675) pellets 4, damage 12

Soda Popper

  • wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc/'wiki' 142 but obs 141
  • **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)

Specifically, Scattergun effective close is 174.0% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 10-104 observed, not 11-105 that 175% would give you. (and minicrit close is 141 observed vs 142 at 175%)

Baby Face's Blaster

  • wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc/'wiki' 142 but obs 141
  • **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)

Specifically, Scattergun effective close is 174.0% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 10-104 observed, not 11-105 that 175% would give you. (and minicrit close is 141 observed vs 142 at 175%)

Back Scatter

  • wiki/calc close 105, but obs 104; minicrit calc/'wiki' 142 but obs 141
  • **CLOSE RANGE REQUIRES OFFSET (32 doesn't match)

Specifically, Scattergun effective close is 174.0% because you can't get to actual point blank, thus the damage is 10-104 observed, not 11-105 that 175% would give you. (and minicrit close is 141 observed vs 142 at 175%)

Dragon's Fury

  • TODO I could use max range 549 to get observed 24 (72 burning) at max range vs. 52.8% long range
  • max range 592 gets wiki's 23 (71 burning) at max range vs. 52.8% long range; but wiki claims 526 max
  • obs falloff 24 (calc/wiki 23); minicrit obs/wiki close 40 (calc 41); wiki mc burning 100-121 (calc 101-122)
  • Interestingly it's 'based on' a 90dmg rocket...which is how much it gets on burning point blank hits

to match wiki (23 far, 69 far on fire): 600 or 592 max range, using either 52.8% or 50% long range to match obs (24 far, 72 far on fire): 548 max range, 50% long range. 547 works, too. (to use wiki's range of 526, not even 0% long range works for wiki or observed (except it works for not-on-fire as match of observed)) turns out to get obs numbers with long of 0 to 52.8 has to be max range of 530-562 turns out to get wiki numbers with long of 0 to 52.8 has to be max range of 550-606

burning targets: My observed had 72 far, 106 minicrit far. I should do more testing - likely 106 minicrit is just 1 minicrit afterburn (5) combined with the calculated 101 damage. Need more testing I guess.


Loose Cannon

  • Needs more obs. ranged fuse in wiki, obs don't think so. obs: maybe falloff starts post-long range (time-based)? crit truly affected by range?


Quickiebomb Launcher

  • Wiki says radius 189 - but same date this weapon was added others reduced from 159 to 146