Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion/Archive 29

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

What happened to the wiki?

There is no more custom theme, but only basic Vector ! Nicolapps 10:15, 10 January 2015 (PST)

Everything is back to normal. I do not know what could this happen. I screenshots in case. Nicolapps 10:20, 10 January 2015 (PST)

Extension:Translate

Mediawiki version 1.24 introduces Extension:Translate, a different way of handling language translation. The primary benefits to this wiki are:

1. Shared content across pages. We currently use a dictionary along with various other templates to accomplish this.
2. Automatic translation linking. We currently use the sidebar, which has some bugs as this is not a standard usage.
3. Flagging outdated translations. This is currently not done.
4. Various statistics (currently compiled by WindBOT, through templates, or by scripts).

The cost to usual editors is this: English pages would have <translate>tags around</translate> text that needed translation. These strings appear to translators for the edit page in another language. Thus, we would have to split our translations into these strings.
The benefit to usual editors is this: Templates and possibly other parts of the pages could be synchronized more easily between languages. It is clearer to translators when a page is outdated. More work done by translators would be re-used.
The benefit to more casual readers is the "quality of translation" links, which indicate if a translation is out of date or incomplete.
Answers to a few concerns I had:

• This extension will not break any pages we currently have. The software only takes control when it finds <translate> tags.
• This extension uses the same language scheme. Pages are linked via slash (Main Page/es), rather than the wikia standard of colon (es:Main Page).

I would  Support this extension (and MediaWiki upgrade) being tested and slowly introduced. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 08:17, 27 January 2015 (PST)

 Neutral Sounded like the main benefit that is currently not solved in another way (windbot etc.) is finding out of date translations, but I guess articles are out of date because translators do not have the time to keep them updated instead of not knowing which articles should be redone?

The software only takes control when it finds <translate> tags. This sounds good.

this extension (and MediaWiki upgrade) being tested and slowly introduced. This is a very important part. SackZement <Talk> 02:16, 28 January 2015 (PST)

 Why not ? Nicolapps 12:49, 28 January 2015 (PST)

What happened to the TF2 Wiki when it was down earlier this week?

I was really worried. Does anyone know about the past situation? { <3 SpriteFan3 © } (talk) 19:30, 7 February 2015 (PST)

AFAIK a switch broke in the datacenter, so valve couldn't fix it immediately, they had to contact their host and get it fixed there. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 19:32, 7 February 2015 (PST)

AFAIK the story above could be true, but i suspect magic and a rise in darkness. What the real truth is we will never know. We can just hope that the next time a magical warded backup route is secured. (Test if edits work for me without 10x 503 errors like before) Magicalpony (talk) 21:08, 7 February 2015 (PST)

PNG vs JPG

Hello, I have a question about the images of major updates. What is better for high-resolution images? e.g.:

• JPG 100% quality lossless (1,600 × 7,052 pixels, file size: 1.69 MB) File:Love_and_War_day_2.jpg
• PNG (580 × 3,350 pixels, file size: 1.69 MB) File:LoveAndWarUpdate_Day2.png (lowered resolution, text is difficult to read)

Yeap i can do PNG with 100% quality lossless but file size will be 8-10 Mb (1,600 × 7,052 pixels) + can compress (4-5 Mb) but it is still more than JPG. (I have fast internet connection 100 Mbit/s but people with slow internet have problems with image 4+ MB). May be JPG format will be better for images of major updates? RADIST 06:19, 1 March 2015 (PST)

 Yes for JPG, I think It's important to keep the best quality available for an image.

Silly Pingwins

06:37, 1 March 2015 (PST)

 No for JPG. Both of those images have different pixels, so it's difficult to differ which one has the best quality. What tool did you to take a screenshot of the page? I use Firefox command called "screenshot --fullpage", The quality is amazing and gets the whole page (that includes youtube player, etc.). ▪ - 06:59, 1 March 2015 (PST)

Source images + Adobe Photoshop CC 2014 (+ plugins) + Adobe Illustrator CC (for best quality text) (especially for translations). Source code have all necessary links, buttons, icons ...It takes longer, but we get original page images. I know about "screenshot --fullpage", but screenshots this is not the original image. And if you have a problem with drivers (or setting) or you dont have any font, then screenshot will with these defects. I'm not saying that your screenshots bad, question was: for what upload 4MB images if you can upload small_size_excellent_quality_analogs (you can easily convert format)? RADIST 07:37, 1 March 2015 (PST)

Didn't got any problem with it yet. Maybe you can do with that process but save in .png? Even being a 4MB file. The Triad Trinket infobox image is pretty big too (1.27mb). ▪ - 07:42, 1 March 2015 (PST)

Thanks for opinion. But I have not heard answer on my question. Well, here's the same image, but in different formats:

• PNG (1200 × 6375 pixels, file size: 4,63 MB)
• JPG (1200 × 6375 pixels, file size: 1,55 MB) RADIST 14:01, 1 March 2015 (PST)

Seems to be fine, but, as you said, you make mount those images via Photoshop, and if the image has transparency? .JPG does not handle alpha mask, but, I suppose the background would be there for that. ▪ - 14:46, 1 March 2015 (PST)

So is the argument here that PNG doesn't compress as well as JPG? Because that's clearly true in the original example, the JPG is larger dimensions at the same filesize. One of the standard reasons to use PNG (as I believe it is here) is that the PNG format is lossless compression, so while it may have larger filesizes, there is no quality loss over the original. JPG is often used for the reverse, when size is a strong concern, for example when bandwidth is limited, e.g. mobile platforms.

The question of quality is obviously a moot point when the JPG image is graphically larger, it should be favored in that case unless the compression makes it unreadable. There is the additional concern of transparency, but that's not very serious.

In the end, 4 MB for a file should be a reasonably fast download. 100 Mb/sec gives you a painful 1.5 minute download speed, but for a large image (like a page-long update blurb) it's probably worth it. The main thing I would say is that in the case of already-existent images (update page images, e.g.) there's no reason to be taking a web browser screenshot, it's more reasonable to use the actual file. If that file is large, we can always convert it to an SVG. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 15:22, 1 March 2015 (PST)

"Action taunt", "action taunt", "Special taunt" or "special taunt"?

I think it's pretty odd the uppercase on "Action taunt" that it is right now on the pages. But, according to the Mann Co. Store, all those 'custom' taunts are named "Special Taunt". Shouldn't be those called "Special Taunt" instead of "Action taunt", as it follows how it's written in-game? ▪ - 14:17, 2 April 2015 (PDT)

Safe Feature

Alright so, I've been working on translating here for quite some time, though sometimes, the pages I'm translating are fairly long, and it sometimes happens that by some stupid accident I lose a lot of progress. Is there a way we could like a "save" feature? Where you can see the wiki pages you are editing, or limit it so you can only have one save at a time, that would be sufficient. What I want is the possibility to kind of have page in Limbo, so it is saved on the wiki, but not displayed. Then once you are done with it, you publish it. The thing is, I know there are alternative ways to save your progress, like opening a word document or something, but it just seems like such a hassle. And of course you can't just leave half-translated/edited pages on the Wiki. So i ask this: Would it be possible to get a button, like between Watchlist and Contributions that's like Work In Progress or WIP for short. I don't know, you guys are the experts. So.. what do you say? --Mrsirpotatohead (talk) 00:11, 3 April 2015 (PDT) ¨´¨´¨

Unfortunately i don't think this is possible. As you said, the most you can do is regularly save it to a word document, otherwise you can leave a half-translated page on your user sandbox, then migrate it over to the main page. Ashes (talk) 11:26, 3 April 2015 (PDT)

Any reason for community maps?

I was wondering, why is there so many community maps on the Wiki? I don't think they should be here in the first place, since the Community websites policy was taken (I know it was for websites). A lot of those maps, at least in my opinion, aren't that interesting. Not forgetting how bland/empty most of the custom map pages are. Of course that some maps were mentioned in some blog posts (like the Walkway) and some participated as a map creation competition, but I still think they shouldn't be as pages too. Since we're talking about community stuff, the Community mods should have a review too. While a lot of them are pretty interesting, I think it would fall to the same problem, although, there aren't many community mods in this Wiki as community maps, so I'm not sure about it. ▪ - 08:55, 18 April 2015 (PDT)

black mesa items incoming

should we start making pages for the new black mesa promo items coming up? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by CwalkPinoy (talk) • (contribs)

There's no confirmation that the items are going to be ingame. There's a number of promo items for games on the Workshop that have never been added to the actual game. If there ever is a confirmation/the items get added to the game, then the pages can be created. --Omolong (talk) 08:23, 10 May 2015 (PDT)

Should the Iron Bomber and the Panic Attack's stats be changed?

Hello everyone. I'm weirdengi, new user to the wiki.

What I want to talk about for today is about the Iron Bomber. You may be familiar to this weapon, it was added in the Smissmas 2014 Update.

As you can see, the iron bombers stats look fine, but whenever you use it, the barrel would not spin due to unknown reasons by Valve. The stats should be changed by holding the mouse by firing 4 grenades at one that way it can spin, it will do extra damage with 4 grenades in one shot. The reload animation needs to get fixed, it looks like the Demoman didn't know how to reload because he's drunk. He needs to put one grenade, turn it and put another one in there, and so on.

Hold the fire button and hold 4 shells until it fires.

+45% damage to players

+11% clip size

-25 health penalty

Anyways, let's go on to the panic attack.

The Panic Attack's shells doesn't go in there with the pyro. I checked the rest of the classes, and it did the same thing. We need to fix the reload also. We need to change the stats for this one.

+25% damage penalty.

Cannot load 4 shells in there. (Which means you cannot put 4 shells and automatically shoot)

Firing speed goes fast whenever your health gets low. (Just like the Escape Plan.)

+50% clip size.

-10% moving speed

-15% weapon spread.

Do these weapon stats work? I will come back and receive your feedback and replies — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Weirdengi (talk) • (contribs)

This sort of thing shouldn't be on here. This page (and the talk pages in general) are for discussing wiki content. If you want to talk about weapon stats, go to the Discussions on Steam or the Steam forums. --Omolong (talk) 11:49, 16 May 2015 (PDT)

Useless Pages

Not sure if this is the right place to talk about this as i'm relatively new to this wiki, but are some pages located in this category really necessary? Some pages only show items that came from a promotion and/or a link to another wiki. Wouldn't it just be easier to simply link this pages to their respective wikis or Wikipedia instead of creating a useless page? -Pokebub (talk) 22:11, 19 May 2015 (PDT)

I'd say they're fine. The purpose of those pages are to give a general view of the game. Though brief, its just enough to get a decent idea of what the game is without going to the respective wiki which would have too much info for someone who'd want to know about it in a very short time. Ashes (talk) 05:14, 20 May 2015 (PDT)

The pages are also useful for showing which items are related to that game (Promotional items), as well linking to the store page of said game. ▪ - 07:56, 20 May 2015 (PDT)

Workshop link to community maps?

With the new addition of Steam Workshop Subscribe method, do you guys think that a link for the page to subscribe to that map is necessary on community map pages? A wording different than the typical "The (item) was contributed to the Steam Workshop.", something like "This map can be subscribed at its "Workshop page" (With a link of the page on the quotation, but remove the quotation when decided to add into the pages. ▪ - 07:50, 3 June 2015 (PDT)

Halloween Spells Video Demos

So someone brought this up again and it was discussed before but no input so I'm going to bring it up again. Should we make videos or have images (or even gifs) of each halloween spells showcasing what they do/what they look like, etc. We've done it with Unusual effects already so why not with Halloween Spells? (And possibly taunt effects) Thoughts? Ashes (talk) 15:19, 28 June 2015 (PDT)

Taunt unusual effects have been done already. I don't know if HLMV supports it, unless various screenshots are taken of each frame of the spell animation. I'm looking through the game files to see how the paint works (if it is possible to find in items_game.txt, which I hope). If we're going to do the spells images for the paints, why not the footprints as well? Plus, videos for spells that changes voices and etc. ▪ - 19:48, 28 June 2015 (PDT)

Something else: If you have an item with paint spell applied, you can see the paint splash icon fading as well. This can be helpful to get the HEX value of the first frame of the animation and the last, and then getting the difference of the hue from each and make the rest of the colors. I suggest using a mod to make the splash clear, though, the halloween paints are broken for now and it doesn't animate. ▪ - 20:07, 28 June 2015 (PDT)

Broken huh, is it not possible to simulate it the same way? Ashes (talk) 05:24, 29 June 2015 (PDT)

I don't have any items with spells and I don't plan to apply any in the future. Well, there's this guy who made a video comparing the spells on a Gibus (Have all the spell paints except the Spectral Spectrum on BLU): [1]. As you can see, some spells have their fading effect quicker than others. ▪ - 08:10, 29 June 2015 (PDT)

GIFs for skins

On the IRC, Ashes and I came up with an idea of creating gif images for the skins to show how the wear effects the guns in visual appearance. The GIFs would also mean less images that would need to be uploaded, and would allow for editing of the collection pages to be easier and cleaner as they wouldn't be cluttered with so many images. Thoughts? Ideas? --Dr. Scaphandre (talk) 12:24, 5 July 2015 (PDT)

 Disagree The page would be too cluttered with .gif images. And pages for each skin doesn't work either. Plus, way too big .gif gifs has their quality reduced, so the Wear for it wouldn't be very distinguishable, unless we go with .webm. ▪ - 12:33, 5 July 2015 (PDT)

 Agree I agree that we COULD have such a concept, however I think we should use formats that Wikipeddia uses, like '.ogg'. I have not tested '*.ogg' on mobile, but I know that '*.gifv' and '*.webm' do not work on Samsung devices, this would put the site lower on google, and that is bad. Rob, collects stars But some people think I hold them. 11:03, 10 November 2015 (PST)

After going back to this, i'll have to revoke my standing on this and disagree. As much as GIFs would be a clear understanding, this is a wiki after all. GIFs on one page would cause load time issues, especially for users with less powerful computers. Unless the GIFs are hosted on an external site by Valve/Wiki I don't think it will work out. NOTE, This discussion is kinda old now so its kinda... dead. Ashes (talk) 11:08, 10 November 2015 (PST)

I figured that was enough to revive this. Guess it's super dead now.Rob, collects stars But some people think I hold them. 11:13, 10 November 2015 (PST)

dont know if this is where to send it.

Hey its me TheUnknownFireBoy, I have no idea if this is where i send stuff to help out the Wiki or something, But. Im doing it anyway. So had a few ideas on how to help the WIKI.

1st = insted of pictures for the cosmetics try adding like a 3D view of it so we can spin the cosmetics around.

2nd = insted of putting decorated you can try to place the decorated weapons in the specific stock weapon place coz they are just reskines likes the decorated scatterguns for example the backcountry scattergun coz its a reskin it should be in the scattergun wiki page. Yeah i know there decorated weps they should be in the decorated page. BUT. Try putting the decorated quality in the spicific weapons page? my opinion.

And yeah thats all i have idea for the wiki.

If you want to contact me or anything here-----> steam name : not available coz my profil does not appear anywhere.

but here is my email.----- Racershmoe@hotmail.com — The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheUnknownFireBoy (talk) • (contribs)

1. This was considered. However, making 3d models takes time, and there are way too many hats in the game. If you'd like to do this, I'm glad to help, but it's a serious endeavor.

2. You'll need to state this one again, with some better grammar -- I've no idea what you said.

I'd discourage you from sharing your email on the web, instead people can post on your talk page or use Special:EmailUser to contact you directly.

Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 14:26, 9 October 2015 (PDT)

MP3 Voice Lines

As you know, the voice lines in TF2 are now in MP3 format instead of WAV. In addition to being much smaller files which would reduce bandwidth use, MP3 is also natively supported by every major browser -- unlike WAV, which requires a plugin like QuickTime. Would it be a good idea to replace all of the files with the MP3 versions? Steve the Pocket (talk) 11:41, 8 August 2015 (PDT)

Unless there's a particular space concern (there isn't), I see no need to degrade the quality of all the voice lines. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 14:26, 9 October 2015 (PDT)

Apparently there is a new concern: Apple has officially stopped supporting QuickTime in Windows, which means browsers have started blocking it as "insecure". We should definitely strive to make all features of the site accessible to people who prefer to use software that won't give them viruses. Steve the Pocket (talk) 16:03, 23 April 2016 (PDT)

"Class speed table" update.

The class speed table, found on the "classes" page, needs to be updated for a formatting error (inconsistent italicizing) and to add the speed boost from the Booties under the demoman category. I'm not sure how to do that, so I'm putting this out here. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Don't (talk) • (contribs)

The template source is here, and I don't know what italicizing problem you see. Try to add the booties change yourself, but if you get stuck, don't hesitate to ask. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 14:26, 9 October 2015 (PDT)

Marketable Item listing

On the item information tables we have each item listed on whether or not it is tradable and/or giftable. Why not add another listing for whether an item is marketable or not? A lot of older hats and some new ones cannot be put onto the market, while some can. --Dr. Scaphandre (talk) 18:20, 30 September 2015 (PDT)

I believe the rationale is that tradable/giftable is in the schema, so it's consistent. Marketable changes are server-side, and are much harder to track consistently. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 14:26, 9 October 2015 (PDT)

No I'm not talking about adding the market listings, I'm saying if we should put on the infobox whether an item can be added to the market. Just because an item is tradable doesn't mean that it's also marketable. --Dr. Scaphandre (talk) 14:32, 9 October 2015 (PDT)

Ah, I was unaware that information was in the schema. If you're willing to add it; have at it. I can update the infobox if you need. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 11:40, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

Edit: In fact, I think I'm right. There are only 12 items listed as "is_marketable". How do you propose to find out if an item is marketable or not? Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 11:42, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

I'm going to search through the market for every cosmetic & rare item that has a listing and compile a list. Then once the infobox is updated I will update every page to have the information. I think there should be disclaimers for most of the items explaining that unique versions are not marketable though. --Dr. Scaphandre (talk) 12:11, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

Hmmm, what about qualities? (e.g. AWP, the unique isn't marketable, however genuine and strange are.) — The preceding assigned comment was added by Tark {Finish Him! ▪ Contribs} 12:35, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

Edit: Also, killstreak weapons are marketable. — The preceding assigned comment was added by Tark {Finish Him! ▪ Contribs} 12:36, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

The whole reason that we didn't add things like craftable was because they were too dynamic. We don't have any way of knowing when valve updates the marketable items list, so we don't know how quickly the information will be out of date. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 12:47, 13 October 2015 (PDT)

So no? This info can be useful sometime but If we can't update every time it can be a big problem (or not). — The preceding assigned comment was added by Tark {Finish Him! ▪ Contribs} 07:24, 18 October 2015 (PDT)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Once again, it's a question of if misinformation is worse than no information at all. I'm of the opinion it is, that was the choice in the past (again, craftability), so yes, let's leave it out of the infobox. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 07:33, 18 October 2015 (PDT)

Scream Fortress question

I know since Scream Fortress 2013 we use the year as complement, but in the website is used roman numerals (IV, V, VI, VII). So, why we can't use? — The preceding assigned comment was added by Tark {Finish Him! ▪ Contribs} 14:18, 30 October 2015 (PDT)

Dunno. I think it's because the community calls the Halloween updates Scream Fortress even though the 2009, 2011, and 2012 updates were called something different, and only at 2013 did Valve started calling it Scream Fortress for all updates. --Dr. Scaphandre (talk) 08:32, 5 November 2015 (PST)

Community Strategy Project

For a while, community strategy pages have been kinda neglected. Pages haven't been updated since Gun Mettle, and some pages have even been left redlinked for years. Now, I am introducing the Community Strategy Project, a place for strategists, guide writers, and the likes to meet up and give the pages the attention they need. If you have good gameplay advice, tips and tricks, or like writing strategy guides, then this is the place for you. Feel free to stop by and help out if you wish. --Dr. Scaphandre (talk) 16:48, 7 November 2015 (PST)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.