Template talk:Major Updates Nav

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Japan Charity Bundle

i was wondering, why is the japan charity bundle update missing from the template? -- zFn (Talk) 07:23, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

UBER Update Logo.png Hi. I was working on this all morning and I was wondoring id I could change the uber update logo to this just cause I don't think we should be using the Medic logo for two different updates. Smashbrother101 12:22, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

First 2 contribution updates were also minor

Smaller image and italics may be needed for those also. I'd do it myself, but I couldn't figure out how. Balladofwindfishes 12:51, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes indeed they aren't considered major updates on the blog... So I'll turn those into minor major updates right now... Tturbo Killicon ambassadorhs unused.png (Speech voice.png / Intel neutral pickedup.png) 12:57, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Size

Sorry to bring this up but I think this should get resolved here and quickly. The reason I made it bigger is because I thought it looked to small. Smashbrother101 17:31, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

It may be small, but it's too big in comparaison to the rest of the icons. It's a nav, it's not supposed to be really visible, it's supposed to allow an easy switch between pages once you're on a related one... For instance you're on the replay update you look for the next one, you simply look at the nav and what's in bold and click... And it's mostly the text that count. If you make one icon bigger it breaks the balance of the the column. Making one update more visible than another, which isn't the goal of a nav, because it doesn't allow an easy switch between updates, if one is more visible. And in the end it's a question of style too... (I hope I was clear because I typed that really fast I have another problem right now) Tturbo Killicon ambassadorhs unused.png (Speech voice.png / Intel neutral pickedup.png) 17:42, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
No but what I'm saying is it DOES look too small compared to the rest. Besides... It is a BIG update : D EDIT: Alright we can leave this for now and I'll wait until your problem is sorted out.Smashbrother101 18:00, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

The vertical format...

...will not work very well in the future. It will be way too right-heavy, with a big blank spot in the lower-left corner, and I'm pretty sure no other navboxes use a 100%-columned format. The previous horizontal format was much better. Toomai Glittershine 20:53, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Should the Grordbort's update be added?

I'd say it's just as important to list as the community updates. Should it be added? Evang7 16:05, 25 July 2011 (PDT)

Pictogram plus.png Agree It has its own update page on the official website. Yeah, it's about as fitting as the Shogun or Mac update are. --SilverHammer 16:07, 25 July 2011 (PDT)
Pictogram plus.png Agree I can't think of a reason why it's not already there. Balladofwindfishes 16:12, 25 July 2011 (PDT)
Pictogram minus.png Oppose We're not going to make a community update out of every 4 special items added. We didn't make an update out of the Poker Night at the Inventory special... It's a special set of item design by a professional studio, not a community update. Tturbo Killicon ambassadorhs unused.png (Speech voice.png / Intel neutral pickedup.png) 17:27, 25 July 2011 (PDT)
But it's got its own page and comic on the blog, it's even in that little "Now Featuring" box to the right. It has its own pack in the store, I just don't see how it's any different from the Summer update or the Mac update. The same professional thing could be said about the Earbuds, or even the Shogun stuff considering the company commissioned Larolaro. --SilverHammer 17:32, 25 July 2011 (PDT)
Pictogram comment.png Comment I say it depends. If for some reason Valve will try to uncover the mystery of the other two grockets (which means probably 8 more items at most) then it should be included. If not, I doubt that it's anything special, but probably still does deserve it since the update has its own comic and blog post. -- Denmax (talk|contributions|sandbox) Item icon Soldier's Stash.png 17:39, 25 July 2011 (PDT)
Pictogram comment.png Comment It's obviously important enough to be featured heavily in the store and all over the blog. It's exactly the same situation as the Shogun and community map update as far as publicity and content goes, and has even more mention than the second and third community contribute update, which are in the nav despite the former not even having a blog post. Further, it's not a community update, but nobody was saying it was so I'm not sure why TTurbo implied someone was. Balladofwindfishes 17:43, 25 July 2011 (PDT)
It's the original question, should it be added to the "list as the community updates". And The poker night at the inventory was feature on the Blog too. For now I don't think those weapons should have their own update page, especialy now that there's already a pack for the pack. Now, if the 2 other grockets reveal something more, then we might call it an update, depending on what comes out (but I'm still thinking it's not community, as long as a community item isn't in it). Tturbo Killicon ambassadorhs unused.png (Speech voice.png / Intel neutral pickedup.png) 07:41, 26 July 2011 (PDT)
No it wasn't. The original question said it was just as important as the community updates. It was stating that. Anyway, the poker night thing doesn't really explain this away because those were not featured on their own update page, nor were they highlighted by the blog in the same sense this update was. Besides, this update already has an update page on the wiki, the poker night stuff does not. Balladofwindfishes 10:22, 26 July 2011 (PDT)

Fall Crates/Total War Promo Update

I believe both should be in this list. The Fall Crate update was the same amount of content as the three community contribution updates and they're on there (even though #2 didn't get a blog post). The Total War Promo was bigger than the Japan Charity event and had ample PR about it all over (just not on the blog), it's large enough for its inclusion also. Balladofwindfishes 06:40, 1 November 2012 (PDT)

Pictogram plus.png Agree The October 9th patch could also do with being listed as a major update, as it was mentioned on the blog as a "Big MvM Update [1]" --Erfly 06:49, 1 November 2012 (PDT)
Yes, I had forgotten about that update. That probably could get on there also, that was a pretty substantial update. Balladofwindfishes 11:17, 1 November 2012 (PDT)
Pictogram minus.png Disagree Your reasoning is sound, but none of those meet the nominal requirements for being major updates. I think we should take the japan charity event, and the third community contribution update out of this nav, since they didn't bring any new weapons, maps, or gamemodes. — Armisael (T · C) 07:20, 1 November 2012 (PDT)
What's the distinction between adding a large number of hats and adding a weapon though? Had it had just one reskin, would it have qualified? The patch that added the Cozy Camper added a new weapon, as did the Rift update. I'd consider neither really worth putting on here though, but I'd put the Fall Crate on here. I think "major" is a bad term to use since those are your Uber Updates, Engineer Updates, etc, but there have been a lot of large content patches that deserve to stand out from "fixed mac client crash" or some of the other random stuff that's been in a patch. Balladofwindfishes 11:17, 1 November 2012 (PDT)
What I'd really like to do is split this nav into updates listed at http://www.tf2.com/history.php and those not listed there. But maybe that's just me. — Armisael (T · C) 16:49, 1 November 2012 (PDT)
Yea, that would make it so the "large content updates" and "major updates" are seperate, so we're not claiming the Japan Charity Event was on the same level as the Uber Update. Balladofwindfishes 05:21, 2 November 2012 (PDT)

Split?

Shall we split this template into two groups of major updates and content packs? by Limie Pie 01:49, 24 May 2013 (PDT)

Pictogram plus.png Why not Darkid (talk|contribs) 09:10, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
Pictogram plus.png the current looking is awful, so why not? User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png Rikka Takanashi (talk) • (contributions) 02:10, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
Pictogram plus.png  The major updates nav lists both major updates (which copies http://www.tf2.com/history.php) and content packs together, unlike any other place on the wiki (or any valve site), as far as I'm aware. Is there a reason for this, other than to bloat the 2011 category? If not, can we split that nav in two, one for major updates and one for content packs?
I've taken the liberty of drawing up a split here. — Armisael (T · C) 07:30, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
Pictogram info.png  I don't think we should split them into 2 different templates. It still has to be comfortable to navigate through all big updates. It just needs some better classification and restyling. Now it looks weird. by Limie Pie 09:24, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
Pictogram plus.png  Yea, our major updates should match Valve's definition. Honestly, I doubt anyone would really care if you'd just go and do it. It's a minor change with good rational behind it. Balladofwindfishes 00:33, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
Pictogram plus.png  Definition consistency is always a good thing.
Item icon Market Gardener.png Zabidenu
(contribstalk) 11:58, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
Pictogram comment.png Comment Thinking about use cases I think it's pretty likely that if split both templates would end up displayed next to each other all the time. For that reason I think it's better to just split them within the single nav. User Moussekateer signature sprite.pngMoussekateer·talk 09:41, 24 May 2013 (PDT)

Guys, try to make something like this but make it look nicer. by Limie Pie 10:47, 24 May 2013 (PDT)

Pictogram info.png  I agree with Limie Pie and Moussekateer - they'll mostly be displayed side-by-side anyway. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 04:10, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
Pictogram info.png  Possible alternative approach: remove the icons from the less important updates — or, just remove the whole shopping list of updates and replace it with a Patch Layout template. --Bp 11:29, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
Why would we need to have both on any given page? There's no reason for Uber Update to have a direct link to all the content packs, and there's no reason for Japan Charity Bundle to have direct links to all the major updates. The average content pack differs from the average major update by almost an order of magnitude - the navs should reflect that fact. On that note, I don't have any issue with the notion of a patch layout style replacement, as long as the major updates are kept separate from the content packs. — Armisael (T · C) 04:47, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
Pictogram comment.png Comment} I agree with Armisael. Kind of pointless to put the shogun bundle on the Uber update page, given the huge difference in scale between them. But I have to say this nav is miles better than the current one. Balladofwindfishes 10:46, 26 May 2013 (PDT)
Pictogram comment.png Comment Neutral about this but the idea of spiting up the two is a nice idea though. Though some improvements can be made to your current "Rough" template. Icons should stay as well, we need something to represent them still. Ashes 12:02, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
Did we come to any conclusion? by Limie Pie 06:59, 28 May 2013 (PDT)
Of course we didn't - this is a wiki. — Armisael (T · C) 07:09, 28 May 2013 (PDT)


I think we should have a vote on adopting the nav that Limie Pie suggested, shown here, since it appears to be the only one that received support from any reasonably large group of members.

Pictogram plus.png  — Armisael (T · C) 07:09, 28 May 2013 (PDT)

Finale

Implemented my version of the table due to lack of discussion and negative comments. I have another idea and I will work on improving the current table. by Limie Pie 08:33, 30 May 2013 (PDT)

error?

Several pages get an ERROR category from this template. At first I thought it came from these pages not in the "includeonly" at the end of the page, but some are in it but still get the error category (Dr. Grordbort's Victory Pack Update). Since I'm not even sure what the function of this "includeonly" is, I don't know what to do. Makrontt (talk) 06:33, 17 June 2013 (PDT)

Pictogram tick.png FixedSmashman (talk) 06:51, 17 June 2013 (PDT)

Robotic Boogaloo is a major update

Right now it's listed as a content pack. I was under the impression the criteria for "Major Update" is that 1: It has an update page, 2: It's listed as a major update on the blog. Robot Boogaloo fits both of these criteria. The content within the update is meaningless, if that weren't the case, I'd question why the Replay and Mac updates are considered major. Valve themselves literally have the update tagged "Major Update" on the blog's history section. Balladofwindfishes (talk) 14:11, 25 November 2013 (PST)

Can we have this discussion more generally for what constitutes a major update and what's a content pack? I think that inclusion on http://www.tf2.com/history.php should be the dividing line, because it's clear and inarguable (if a little slow at updating), but I know that other people think differently. — Armisael (T · C) 14:18, 25 November 2013 (PST)
I tend to agree on both points. I think that the inclusion of an update on www.tf2.com is a good way to a) verify that an update is considered to be "Major", and b) can be used to solve any disputes. Depending upon the speed with which the page is updated, using that page to assess future updates when in doubt may be easiest way to verify any future releases. --- Killicon pumpkin.png Esquilax 18:25, 25 November 2013 (PST)
Yea, using what Valve sets as a major update is the easiest, non-controversial and best way to do it. That would mean the Boogaloo is a major update and the Summer 2013 update isn't. Balladofwindfishes (talk) 19:26, 25 November 2013 (PST)

Smissmas 2016 should be a Content Pack, not a Major Update

That update didn't really add much to the game, and it didn't even have it's own dedicated update page. All it added was a cosmetic case, a few new taunts, and some minor changes to Casual matchmaking. That's it.

Now while Scream Fortress 2016 didn't have an update page either, it at least had a lot of content to warrant calling it a major update, with the new maps, the new Halloween case, new contracts, new taunts, and the Unusualifier tool. Smissmas 2016 though felt more like a Content Pack like the Mayflower and Rainy Day updates.

So unless there are any other second opinions, I'd like to reclassify Smissmas 2016 as a content pack. --User Dr. Scaphandre Golden Ghastly Gibus.png Dr. Scaphandre 14:31, 27 October 2017 (PDT)

I think the reason Smissmas 2016 is labeled as a major update is because it's listed as such on the official TF2 blog history page here. I assume that's why it was labeled as a major update in the first place. Paint Splat TheValueOfTeamwork.png ClockworkSpirit2343 14:45, 27 October 2017 (PDT)
We discussed that on the IRC, and we decided that wasn't really a good reason since Valve classifies the Saxxy Awards as major updates, but of course we don't, we label them as events. I think the reason it was labeled as a Major Update was because it was Smissmas, and historically Smissmas has always been huge updates until the 2016 one. But no one had spoken up about it until now. --User Dr. Scaphandre Golden Ghastly Gibus.png Dr. Scaphandre 14:52, 27 October 2017 (PDT)
Well if it's been discussed and an agreement has been reached, then I see no reason to not reclassify it. Paint Splat TheValueOfTeamwork.png ClockworkSpirit2343 15:07, 27 October 2017 (PDT)