User:Toomai/MvM strategy overhaul
I think Community Mann vs. Machine strategy could do with a split into "strats for players" and "strats against bots". This'll be the former.
Colours for reference (from paint, like mission tables):
Essential | The average MvM player will expect to see this in their teammates' loadout, and for good reason. |
Recommended | A generally-preferred option that nevertheless has some weaknesses. |
Average | Has pros and cons, or might simply have an underdeveloped meta. |
Discouraged | A pro could probably make this work, but there are better options. |
Worthless | For whatever reason, this has no practical use in the mode. |
Scout
General
Loadout
Primary | |
---|---|
Scattergun |
You can never go wrong with the stock Scattergun. |
Force-A-Nature |
Cheaper to upgrade to reach higher damage potential, and knockback is helpful to control robots, but your teammates may not appreciate it if you make robots bounce around every time you shoot them. |
Shortstop |
Effective at longer ranges and has good maximum damage rate, but is more expensive to upgrade. |
Soda Popper |
Cheaper to upgrade to reach higher damage potential and also unlocks additional mobility through Hype. |
Baby Face's Blaster |
Against hordes of robots, it becomes quite easy to build the weapon's Boost meter. However, it has the lowest damage potential of all the Scout's primaries, and upgrading movement speed already brings the Scout to near the game's running speed cap. |
Back Scatter |
Being able to mini-crit giants from behind can be useful, but there are several better ways to achieve mini-crits, and the weapon is otherwise outclassed by the other options. |
Secondary | |
Sidearms |
In essentially all situations, it is more effective to simply reload the Scout's primary weapon than to switch to his less-damaging secondary one, especially once reload speed has been upgraded. Using a pistol for its higher long-range damage is also simply subpar, as it's not worth upgrading. |
Bonk! Atomic Punch |
The invincibility that Bonk! provides makes it possible to collect dangerously-placed credits safely, but it is generally inferior to Über Canteens, as it renders the Scout unable to attack for a sizeable amount of time. |
Crit-a-Cola |
The extra damage provided by Crit-a-Cola is not a bad option for a purely-offensive Scout. Compared to the Fan O'War, it can deal mini-crits to several enemies at once, but cannot do so for teammates. |
Mad Milk |
Mad Milk is an exceptional team support tool, allowing teammates to heal by attacking sodden enemies, and a single inexpensive upgrade makes bots easier to hit and cripples Giant Scouts' ability to tear through the team's defenses. |
Flying Guillotine |
Designed to destroy singled-out, stunned targets, the Flying Guillotine has poor utility against a horde of robots. |
Melee | |
Stock |
The Bat and Holy Mackerel do not have any positive attributes to take advantage of, making them unsuitable for MvM compared to the alternatives. |
Sandman |
The ability to mark giants for death at long range is useful, but the upgrade required to do so is expensive, in addition to requiring ammo. The Sandman also reduces the Scout's max health significantly, which while not much of an issue after collecting a lot of credits, will be a concern at the start of each wave. |
Boston Basher |
While there is minor utility in helping your Medic build ÜberCharge or revealing Spies, time spent smacking robots to make them bleed would be better spent simply killing them with your primary weapon. |
Candy Cane |
A good Scout should be overhealed at all times from collecting credits, and the health kits that drop from killed robots will be in the line of fire more often than not, making them risky for teammates to go for. The Candy Cane is a good source of afterburn control if there are a lot of enemy Pyros, but the substantial increase in explosive damage is costly. |
Sun-on-a-Stick |
The Scout has higher damage-per-second with non-upgraded primary weapons than using this weapon on burning enemies. Its only potential use is against Heavies with the Fists of Steel, and even then this requires a Pyro on the team. |
Fan O'War |
One hit from this weapon marks giant robots for mini-crits for 7.5 seconds, effectively cutting their maximum health by 25% if it is constantly re-applied. With no upgrades required, it is one of the most effective ways to accelerate the takedown of stubborn robots. |
Atomizer |
A single extra jump is negligible in the grand scheme of things, especially if the Scout has the Soda Popper or jump height upgrades. |
Wrap Assassin |
Bleeding is a generally ineffective means of damage, and the weapon is basically incapable of killing enemies straight-up, making it a poor choice overall. |
Canteen | |
Über |
A few seconds of invincibility can give a Scout just enough time to take down a robot and heal from the money it drops, wade through heavy fire to collect credits in a dangerous spot, or simply distract enemies to buy time for teammates. |
Kritz |
Scouts are already exceptional at killing Tanks, and having crits multiplies his effectiveness even further. It also makes it safer for him to go after Medics, making it easier to kill them in one shot and avoid having them use their charge. |
Ammo |
Most Scouts should have enough time while they're reloading or between sub-waves to dash to an ammo pick-up or the team's Dispenser. |
Return |
If a Giant Scout slips through the defense, having a Scout teleport back may be the team's best chance of catching them quickly. However, this is rather situational. |
Upgrades
Soldier
General
Loadout
Primary | |
---|---|
Rocket Launcher |
You can never go wrong with the stock Rocket Launcher. |
Direct Hit |
Giant robots and tanks are easy targets for the Direct Hit's higher damage, but they cannot be juggled, and splash damage is very important to take out several robots at once. |
Black Box |
The loss of one rocket is not hard to compensate for with upgrades, and hitting several robots at once will keep your health decently full. |
Rocket Jumper |
For obvious reasons, this item should not be used. |
Liberty Launcher |
The Libery Launcher's lower damage output is a major problem that is not truly compensated for by its upsides. |
Cow Mangler 5000 |
With infinite ammo, the Cow Mangler is cheaper to upgrade than other rocket launchers. However, the lack of critical hits is a significant downside that the entire team may have to compensate for. |
Original |
Most MvM maps prioritize height advantage over peeking around corners, so this weapon is not much different than the stock. |
Beggar's Bazooka |
With a horde of robots to fire at, this weapon's only downside is negated - there's so much stuff to hit that only distant Snipers will result in missing. With upgraded reload speed, the Soldier can fire single rockets at high speed, or quickly load up a barrage to fire all at once just after activating a Kritz canteen. |
Air Strike |
Firing 8-rocket barrages from above without any upgrades is enough to offset the weapon's lower damage and splash, but is risky against Giant Heavies and the like. |
Secondary | |
Shotguns |
Carrying a sidearm, which really only has a use when out of rockets, is simply inferior to carrying a team-boosting banner. |
Boots |
These items have no value when defending against an invading robot horde. |
Buff Banner |
Deploying mini-crits to anyone nearby is an invaluable tool in a mode based on dealing high amounts of damage. Use the banner as often as possible as opposed to saving it for specific moments, to increase the number of times it gets deployed. |
Battalion's Backup |
Depending on team composition and the presence of crit-boosted robots, this banner can be a better choice than the Buff Banner. |
Concheror |
Being able to keep the whole team healed is a decent ability, and the mobility boost helps positioning and money collection. |
Righteous Bison |
The Bison is cheap to upgrade and naturally penetrates through unlimited numbers of robots, but it is difficult to recommend over a team-boosting banner. |
B.A.S.E. Jumper |
Only really useful in conjunction with the Air Strike, and even then it deprives the player of a team support tool. |
Melee | |
Shovel |
The Soldier has far better melee weapons to choose from. |
Equalizer |
A weakened Soldier will be doing high damage with each melee swing, but this is naturally risky. |
Pain Train |
With no points to capture, this weapon has no upside. |
Half-Zatoichi |
As long as the Soldier can land the last hit on an enemy, this will refill his health in an instant, making it a decent choice when surrounded. |
Disciplinary Action |
Aside from its speed-boosting ability, the weapon's ridiculous melee range helps in attacking Steel Gauntlets at a safe distance. |
Market Gardener |
In a mode with many foes at once, taking out one at a time with a rocket jump in between is very inefficient. |
Escape Plan |
A good retreating tool, though crit resistance might need to be applied for best usage. |
Canteen | |
Über |
There's nothing wrong with temporary invincibiliy, but most of the time a Soldier can simply rocket jump away from bad situations. |
Kritz |
Crit rockets are a Soldier's best weapon in MvM. Use them liberally. |
Ammo |
There is situational use in an instant clip refill. |
Return |
Soldiers should be capable of catching up to bots without teleporting. |
Upgrades
Pyro
General
Loadout
Primary | |
---|---|
Flame Thrower |
You can never go wrong with the stock flamethrower. |
Backburner |
Crits from behind are devastating to giant robots, which take a while to turn around, but the costlier airblast will have to be compensated for by either more ammo upgrades or a teammate. |
Degreaser |
The typical MvM Pyro should be in the fray at all times without need to switch weapons quickly, and the Degreaser is also the Pyro's worst damage-dealer in both raw damage and afterburn. |
Phlogistinator |
With so many robots to burn, a Phlog Pyro should have crits and healing on demand at almost all times. However, the inability to airblast cannot be overstated. |
Secondary | |
Shotguns |
Only if a Pyro runs out of ammo would he ever need to switch to a shotgun, a situation that he shouldn't be getting into anyways. |
Flare Gun |
Shooting flares at Snipers is a decent way of distracting them, or outright killing them if they remain still for a second shot. It is also good for dealing damage to Giants while walking up to them. |
Detonator |
Similar to the Flare Gun, though with less damage and more mobility. |
Manmelter |
Gaining crits via extinguishing teammates is very situational, and other flare secondaries tend to result in more damage for less effort. |
Scorch Shot |
Acts like a long-range airblast to knock back distant robots, but with not much else. |
Melee | |
Fire Axe |
The Pyro has far better melee weapons to choose from. |
Axtinguisher |
A reliable way to delete Über Medics, but poor for most other situations. |
Homewrecker |
Worthless against robots, but gets rid of enemy Sappers, which can be a lifesaver if the Engineer is killed before he can unsap his buildings. |
Powerjack |
Extra speed and health are helpful, but landing the final strike on an enemy can be difficult. |
Back Scratcher |
In early waves, getting additional health from health packs can be a major source of survival, and even once health-based upgrades and resistances are bought, it still does additional damage. However, the team's Medic and Dispenser become near-worthless to you. |
Sharpened Volcano Fragment |
With afterburn being unreliable overall, the weapon's lower damage doesn't really jive with the Pyro's playstyle. |
Third Degree |
While this weapon can eradicate all the Medics off a giant with a single crit swing, it needs three non-crit swings to do so, the second one probably causing them to pop their charge. |
Neon Annihilator |
There are better ways to kill enemies than to depend on a teammate to soak them. |
Canteen | |
Über |
As Pyros thrive in close range, invincibility is a major boon for when things go south. |
Kritz |
Not a bad option for destroying Tanks and giants. |
Ammo |
Pyros that don't wish to leave the fight to find ammo may opt for this. |
Return |
The ability to catch up to a robot and airblast them back makes Pyro one of the better users of this canteen. |
Upgrades
Demoman
Heavy
Engineer
General
Loadout
Primary | |
---|---|
Shotgun |
You can never go wrong with the stock Shotgun. |
Frontier Justice |
With the amount of kills and assists the typical Engineer should be racking up, the Frontier Justice is a source of almost limitless crits once the first Sentry is destroyed. Engineers with this weapon should prioritize staying alive and make sure to destroy their Sentry between waves (or even allow Sentry Busters to do so during waves) to unlock the crits. |
Widowmaker |
Since it uses Metal for ammo, the Widowmaker is very cheap to upgrade, requires no reloading, and in the hands of a decent shot will keep you constantly filled with Metal. With piercing bullets and max metal upgrades, the weapon can become a source of unlimited harrassment and distraction. |
Pomson 6000 |
While not very useful against most robots, the Pomson excels at weakening Medics and Spies, giving the team a wider window of opportunity to destroy them. |
Rescue Ranger |
The ability to heal and haul buildings at long range less Engineers place high-level Sentries as distractions and cart them off to safe havens when their health gets low, or quickly teleport them back and forth across an area. However, as Engineers do not run slower while hauling in MvM, it is not as useful for moving up a base as in other modes, and being marked for death can be a serious problem if your nest is swarmed. |
Panic Attack |
It is risky for an Engineer to rely on this weapon, as he cannot switch weapons while loading or firing it, which can leave his buildings open if he can't switch back to his wrench in time. |
Secondary | |
Pistol |
While there's nothing inherently wrong with the Pistol, it is simply outclassed by the Engineer's other options unless he is going full Gunslinger. |
Wrangler |
The Wrangler allows Engineers to intelligently prioritize targets, raise their Sentry's DPS for taking down giants and tanks, absorb tons of damage when combined with building health upgrades, and fire back at distant Snipers or Spies. Its only downside is that activating it can allow Scouts to slip though the front lines. |
Short Circuit |
The ability to wipe out entire volleys of projectiles is very powerful, but at a steep Metal cost that cannot be easily replenished without switching away from the weapon. In addition, Heavies and Medics have more effective tools for projectile control, even though they have to buy them. |
Melee | |
Wrench |
You can never go wrong with the stock Wrench. |
Gunslinger |
Mini-Sentries are cheap and fast, the health boost allows the Engineer to dive into the fight himself more, and punching crits can be effective against giants. However, giving up level 3 sentries is not a choice to be made lightly, and the team will need to prepare itself accordingly before the first wave begins. |
Southern Hospitality |
Engineers should not be attacking robots directly with their wrench outside a last resort, meaning this weapon has no upside. |
Jag |
Since the Jag's only downside is less melee damage, it's a good choice for Engineers that wish to forego Upgrade canteens. |
Eureka Effect |
The Eureka Effect's taunt acts as an Ammo canteen and Return canteen at once, in addition to fully healing him, a rare luxury in MvM maps. However, its lower repair and upgrade speeds can easily cripple a Sentry under fire, requiring swing speed upgrades to keep pace. In addition, the process of using its teleport is quite long, making it hard to use when under fire. |
Canteen | |
Über |
There are better ways of dealing with Sentry Busters than by Übering the Engineer and Sentry. |
Kritz |
Additional Sentry firing speed is probably better off left to the Wrangler than a canteen. |
Ammo |
An instant Metal refill can be a lifesaver in some situations, especially in conjunction with the Widowmaker or Short Circuit. |
Return |
Being able to haul a level 3 Sentry to the base in an instant is a useful tool, but often the same thing can be accomplished by building a two-way teleporter. |
Upgrade |
The ability to put up a level 3 Sentry and Dispenser in an instant cannot be understand, especially when there is no time to rebuild manually during a wave. |
Upgrades
Medic
General
Loadout
Primary | |
---|---|
Syringe Gun |
The stock Syringe Gun has no upsides to work with or downsides to avoid. |
Blutsauger |
Unless the Medic is actually fighting with this weapon (and therefore not healing his team as much), he is hampering his self-regeneration with it. |
Crusader's Crossbow |
With the ability to heal teammates at long range and deal surprisingly high damage to distant Snipers, the Crossbow is quite useful in many situations. |
Overdose |
A minor damage reduction conbimed with a minor speed increase equals out to an average option. |
Secondary | |
Medi Gun |
Invulnerability is a strong tool against the robot horde, allowing a patient (or two) to survive literally anything while spitting out damage. However, out of all the Medic's options, it takes the longest to build up. |
Kritzkrieg |
As dealing high amounts of damage is the main goal of the mode, having command of guaranteed crits is a godsend to any class it's trained upon. It allows Demos to spread out critical carpets of stickies before the wave begins, Soldiers to fire walls of crit rockets at the oncoming horde, or Pyros to melt the sides off a Tank. It also allows the Medic to spend his money on the cheaper canteens to share. |
Quick-Fix |
With its higher healing rate, the Quick-Fix can charge its projectile shield and revive teammates faster, and the knockback immuniy its Megaheal provides can help against pusher robots. However, its charge is otherwise quite weak, and its lower overheal can be a problem if not upgraded to compensate. |
Vaccinator |
When used properly, the Vaccinator can render both the Medic and his patient completely immune to crits and almost immune to whatever else is incoming. Its main drawback is the higher learning curve required to tap into its versatility. |
Melee | |
Bonesaw |
The stock Bonesaw has no attributes, useful or otherwise. |
Ubersaw |
It is risky for a Medic to poke a robot with his melee weapon to acquire über, but simply carrying the weapon in case an opportunity presents itself (such as stunned or sapped robots) is never a bad idea. |
Vita-Saw |
Comapred to regular multiplayer, the balance in MvM of "stay alive" versus "rebuild time after death" is skewed much more heavily towards survival, making the Vita-Saw's max health reduction a much larger disadvantage (especially once charge speed is upgraded). |
Amputator |
The Medicating Melody and higher regeneration rate are good reason to choose the Amputator, as its downside in damage is not really relevant. |
Solemn Vow |
All players can see the health of giant robots and Tanks at all times, so even though this weapon is a straight upgrade over the stock Bonesaw, it is equally useless. |
Canteen | |
Über |
A solid choice for Kritzkrieg users, allowing the Medic to dispense both crits and invincibility. |
Kritz |
When not using the Kritzkrieg, this lets the Medic pop crits on patients anyway for short bursts of high damage. |
Ammo |
With proper team communication, a Medic can use an Ammo canteen to double the size of his patient's clip during a Kritzkrieg, Buff Banner, or patient's Kritz canteen. Without proper communication, the patient may buy Ammo canteens of their own or break off their attack preparing to reload. |
Return |
Medics cannot share this canteen, so if a robot sneaks through to the base, they will have to take them out alone with weapons that are likely not upgraded. |
Upgrades
Sniper
General
Loadout
Primary | |
---|---|
Sniper Rifle |
You can never go wrong with the stock Sniper Rifle. |
Huntsman |
Without explosive headshots, a Huntsman Sniper loses an effective manner of crowd control, which cannot reasonably be made up for with the bleeding upgrade. |
Sydney Sleeper |
Applying Jarate at long range is a useful tool, but its lack of headshots is a major downgrade. Note that the Sydney Sleeper can still apply explosive headshots. |
Bazaar Bargain |
The effectiveness of this weapon is directly linked to the skill of the user. In the hands of a headshotting pro, it charges extremely fast; in the hands of a novice, it is of little value. |
Machina |
The downsides of the Machina are minimal compared to its higher damage and built-in penetration when fully charged. |
Hitman's Heatmaker |
The Heatmaker's Focus ability allows the Sniper to rapid-fire partially charged heatshots, and with so many robots to kill, it is possible to remain scoped almost indefinitely. |
Classic |
The inability to deal headshot damage when not fully charged is difficult to work around, but being able to do so without being scoped can help keep an eye on other threats. |
Secondary | |
SMG |
The SMG's only use is for personal defense when attacked up close. |
Jarate |
An incredibly useful tool for any team, Jarate not only applies mini-crits to multiple enemies at once, but with a single cheap upgrade, it also slows them down and renders them unable to slip through the team's defenses. |
Razorback |
With no resupply lockers in MvM maps, and occasional bugs that allow Spy Robots to circumvent the item, the Razorback has very poor situational use. |
Darwin's Danger Shield |
Extra health and bullet resistance is helpful, but the higher explosive weakness and lack of a secondary weapon make this item less than ideal. |
Cozy Camper |
Free health regeneration is nice, but the flinching immunity is situational, as robots tend to not fire at Snipers until they are decently close anyway. |
Cleaner's Carbine |
Snipers that wish to fight on the front lines can find the Carbine a useful source of mini-crits, but this requires him to land the final hit in an enemy (which is challenging with five other teammates shooting at the same targets), and the weapon's slower firing speed is expensive to offset. |
Melee | |
Kukri |
A stock melee weapon with no upsides to exploit or downsides to avoid. |
Tribalman's Shiv |
A Sniper in melee combat is probably trying to save his own skin rather than trying to go on the offensive against bulky robots, and bleeding is more often than not a poor source of damage. |
Bushwacka |
With several ways to gain mini-crits, such as Jarate or a teammate's Buff Banner, the Bushwacka's ability to turn them into full crits is exceptionally useful against oblivious giants and tanks. |
Shahanshah |
Using a melee weapon as a Sniper is probably a last resort, so having hgiher damage when injured is not that bad. |
Canteen | |
Über |
Snipers have little use for invincibility unless they are overwhelmed, in which case they probably won't be able to survive regardless. |
Kritz |
The ability to rapid-fire headshot damage without scoping is good in a pinch. |
Ammo |
Most Snipers shouldn't be running through ammo fast enough to require refilling while busy, and many sniping spots have ammo pickups available. |
Return |
If a robot gets through the defense, a Sniper might not be able to do much to stop it even if he heads it off. |
Upgrades
Spy
General
Loadout
Primary | |
---|---|
Revolver |
|
Ambassador |
With less damage and a focus on headshots, no upgrades that take advantage of headshots, and a mantadory cooldown period, the Ambassador is not exceptionally useful against a horde of robots. |
L'Etranger |
Spies are not expected to contribute ranged damage anyway, so L'Etranger's lower damage is not much of a downside. On the other hand, it allows cloak to be charged faster and used more, allowing the Spy to position himself better. |
Enforcer |
If a Spy is shooting something, it is probably a Tank, making disguising useless and this weapon a good choice. |
Diamondback |
While it does slightly less damage, the ability to store many crits via backstabs allows the Spy to do appreciable damage to faraway enemies and Tanks. |
Secondary | |
Sapper |
There is nothing exceptional about the Sapper. |
Red-Tape Recorder |
There is no functional difference between the two sapper options when used on robots. Against enemy buildings, the Red-Tape Recorder can delevel buildings, but leaves them around for potential saving for longer. |
Melee | |
Knife |
You can never go wrong with the stock Knife. |
Your Eternal Reward |
The specifics of robots' spy-detection mechanics result in this weapon being functionally useless. |
Conniver's Kunai |
The initial health penalty is a major issue, but the Kunai eliminates the need for health-on-kill upgrades. |
Big Earner |
With not-as-drastic health reduction, the Big Earner makes it very easy to keep cloak fully charged. |
Spy-cicle |
Being without a knife, the Spy's primary weapon in MvM, for 15 whole seconds, is a major drawback that does not quite compensate for 2 seconds of fire immunity. |
Watch | |
Invis Watch |
Ammo tends to be scarce on MvM maps, so refilling cloak can be an issue. |
Cloak and Dagger |
This watch is suited for slow or stationary espionage, which does not jive well with the mode's mechanics. |
Dead Ringer |
Robots are always completely fooled by feigned deaths unless the Spy catches on fire, and they ignore decloacking noises. As long as the Spy can keep his cloak fully charged, he can use the Dead Ringer to escape from almost any situation and come back for more. |
Canteen | |
Über |
Having a safety net in case of discovery can be useful. |
Kritz |
The Spy has poor damage output overall, and would probably be better off with a cheaper canteen. |
Ammo |
Sappers are essential to slow down fast robots, and having a freebie at your disposal can be a game-changer. |
Return |
If a fast robot gets through with the bomb, a Spy can teleport to the base and sap-n-stab them. |