Difference between revisions of "Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion"

From Team Fortress Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
m (Sorting old undocumented notes)
m (Image Policy)
 
Line 1: Line 1:
 
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
 
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
<div class="plainlinks" style="margin:1em -0.56em; background:#ededed; padding:0.65em 1em; font-size:175%; border:1px solid #aaa; border-left:0px; border-right:0px; text-align:center;">[{{fullurl:Team_Fortress_Wiki:Discussion|action=edit&section=new}} '''create a new section''']</div>
+
<div class="plainlinks" style="margin:1em -0.56em; background:#ededed; padding:0.65em 1em; font-size:175%; border:1px solid #aaa; border-left:0px; border-right:0px; text-align:center;">[{{fullurl:Team_Fortress_Wiki:Discussion|action=edit&section=new}} '''Create a new section''']</div>
 
<div style="margin-bottom:1em;">{{CentralDiscussion}}
 
<div style="margin-bottom:1em;">{{CentralDiscussion}}
 
</div>{{TFWiki navbar}}
 
</div>{{TFWiki navbar}}
{{Discussion archives/2012}}
 
{{Discussion archives/2011}}
 
{{Discussion archives/2010}}
 
<!-- Uncomment this when the tabbed boxes discussion has been archived: {{TOC float|right}} -->
 
 
[[Category:Team Fortress Wiki]]
 
[[Category:Team Fortress Wiki]]
[[Category:Team Fortress Wiki discussion| ]]
+
[[Category:Team Fortress Wiki discussion]]
__TOC__
+
{| width="100%"
{{Discussion close}}
+
|__TOC__
== A gift after April's Fools ==
+
|{{Discussion archives}}
 +
|}
 +
{{clr}}
 +
 
 +
 
 +
== Dark Mode ==
  
I thought it would be nice to leave a gift for April's fools so lets let the community download the skin of the weapons we made up.
+
I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
so here something I made to give them the link thorough it.  
 
Link for download the lamey site I made : http://www.mediafire.com/?6oi096fvs95sbqj
 
Link for the skin http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43356210/disc.rar I have brought the idea to the IRC and people liked it. [[User:Atlas|Atlas]] 17:35, 1 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Support}} The idea of letting people download it, but I think it would be better to put the download link on the existing store page which, will be modified at midnight to explain what happened — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 17:50, 1 April 2012 (PDT)
 
Just letting you know , I have talked with Quin about this and he is 100% okay with us publishing his skin. [[User:Atlas|Atlas]] 17:56, 1 April 2012 (PDT)
 
::{{c|+|Thanks!}} I actually thought the update, the page and the steam page was completely real, and although I knew it was April Fools, I really haven't thought it was a joke. Good job with that, hope to participte in April Fools 2013! [[File:Nemesis_RED.png|link=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:RocketStickyJumper|35px]][[User:RocketStickyJumper|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:16px;font-family:'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Rocket Sticky Jumper</b></span>]] <small>[[User_talk:RocketStickyJumper|Talk]]</small> 00:37, 2 April 2012 (PDT)
 
{{Discussion close|footer}}
 
  
== How about: User of the Month! ==
+
:Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
  
We could reward users for good work by featuring them in a section on the main page. Judges could look for edits, spirit, quality, like a featured article for users! --[[User:Enthers|Enthers]]. (''I find this work intriguing. How about yourself, sir?'') 07:51, 3 April 2012 (PDT)
+
== Valve Store ==
:: This is already been taken up by the Russians of the /ru section of the TF Wiki. They have told about their form of User of the Month in their Discussion page at the /ru translation discussions and recieved a reply from mods and admins about that the idea seemed alittle bit off the edge. It's a dead idea on the other hand. Maybe another time :/ [[File:User Ravecrib9t4 Signature Logo.JPG |60px]] [[User:Ravecrib9t4|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#141414 ">TNS</span>]] 23:41, 11 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Support}} Sounds good to me. [[User:Blk Mage Ctype|Blk Mage Ctype]] 12:08, 22 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
== 3D Model Project: Hats ==
+
The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
Whatever happened to the 3D model project for hats and miscs? A quick glance at the images depository reveals that some have been made pending changes.
+
:Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
The last I've heard of it was that Moussekateer had a "hat painting studio of sorts" in the works and under wraps as of October 2011.
+
== Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal ==
-[[User:Upgrade|Upgrade]] 00:45, 5 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
== Category icons ==
+
Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL]. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes ([[Cotton Head]], [[Brotherhood of Arms]], etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): [https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT]. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: [https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG]. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
Hello everybody,
+
:I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
I just wanted to see what the community thought of these category icons:
+
== Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model ==
  
[[File:User R4wrz0rz0r Categoryiconexample.png|link=User:R4wrz0rz0r/vector.css]]
+
Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the [[Soldier's Stash]], [[Horrible Horns]] on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin ([[Texas Half-Pants]], [[Millennial Mercenary]]'s Streaming 2Fort style, [[Exquisite Rack]], [[Battle Bob]]'s With Helmet style, [[Bacteria Blocker]]'s Headphones style, etc).
  
I'm certainly not done with them yet - I will implement many, many more over time, as well as additional styling to make them as compatible across browsers as I can. If we decide that most of us like them, we can enable them for everybody (right now I'm the only one who sees them). <span style="border:2px solid red;border-radius:5px;-moz-border-radius:5px;-o-border-radius:5px;-webkit-border-radius:5px;-khtml-border-radius:5px;padding:3px;background-color:black">[[File:Painted Swagman's Swatter E6E6E6.png|20px|link=User:R4wrz0rz0r]] [[User:R4wrz0rz0r|{{TF2B|r4wrz|color=white|size=18px}}]]<small>[[User talk:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:white">Swagmaster</span>]]</small></span> 13:45, 6 April 2012 (PDT)
+
Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on [[Decorated Veteran]] since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).
: Probably needs <code>"margin-right:2px;"</code> on each icon. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 13:48, 6 April 2012 (PDT)
 
: {{c|Nope}} I only see one in that giant screenshot but almost any representative icon will be unreadable at that size. &ndash; [[User:Fashnek|<span style="text-size:1.5em;font-weight:bold;color:#363;text-shadow:0 0 0.8em #6c6;">fashnek</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Fashnek|talk]]&#183;[[Special:Contributions/Fashnek|c]])</sub> 14:04, 6 April 2012 (PDT)
 
Just remember guys, (almost) ''everything'' is subject to change, including size. <span style="border:2px solid red;border-radius:5px;-moz-border-radius:5px;-o-border-radius:5px;-webkit-border-radius:5px;-khtml-border-radius:5px;padding:3px;background-color:black">[[File:Painted Swagman's Swatter E6E6E6.png|20px|link=User:R4wrz0rz0r]] [[User:R4wrz0rz0r|{{TF2B|r4wrz|color=white|size=18px}}]]<small>[[User talk:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:white">Swagmaster</span>]]</small></span> 14:06, 6 April 2012 (PDT)
 
: What are you asking then if everything will change? The icon already isn't readable, and I don't think any proper icon will be readable at that size. I also don't see how the size would change without either making the whole category list look like ass or making category text larger (which no one wants). Are you asking about category icons in general? I say they are a big waste. &ndash; [[User:Fashnek|<span style="text-size:1.5em;font-weight:bold;color:#363;text-shadow:0 0 0.8em #6c6;">fashnek</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Fashnek|talk]]&#183;[[Special:Contributions/Fashnek|c]])</sub> 14:09, 6 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
:{{c|Support}} I like the idea, the implementation needs work though. <code>margin-right</code> is pretty much necessary, and some of the icons (the token ones) aren't recognisable at such small sizes. Need other icons, or icons made to look good at that size to begin with — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 14:12, 6 April 2012 (PDT)
+
Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.
  
I will be replacing the token icons with images of the weapons that are on them. <span style="border:2px solid red;border-radius:5px;-moz-border-radius:5px;-o-border-radius:5px;-webkit-border-radius:5px;-khtml-border-radius:5px;padding:3px;background-color:black">[[File:Painted Swagman's Swatter E6E6E6.png|20px|link=User:R4wrz0rz0r]] [[User:R4wrz0rz0r|{{TF2B|r4wrz|color=white|size=18px}}]]<small>[[User talk:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:white">Swagmaster</span>]]</small></span> 14:14, 6 April 2012 (PDT)
+
Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.
  
:{{c|=|Whatever you like.}} I think this is cool, but the icons are too small and I don't know how to place images to some of these catagories (Untradeable items for example), thus making it un-consistant. I don't really love it, nor I hate it. Whatever you guys pick is fine with me. [[File:Nemesis_RED.png|link=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:RocketStickyJumper|35px]][[User:RocketStickyJumper|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:16px;font-family:'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Rocket Sticky Jumper</b></span>]] <small>[[User_talk:RocketStickyJumper|Talk]]</small> 12:34, 7 April 2012 (PDT)
+
Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The [[Mann-Bird of Aberdeen]] looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like [[Team Captain]] for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: [https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0 https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0]). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
:{{c|No}}, sorry. Icons are too small, they don't add to readability. IMHO.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <sup><span style="background:#5B885B; color:white; font-size:8px; padding-left: 2px; padding-right: 2px; padding-bottom: 1px">[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white">T</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Stormbird|<span style="color:white">C</span>]]</span></sup> 02:40, 8 April 2012 (PDT)
+
:I would support every page having both team colours.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
::It would maybe help if people could see them as they'd appear on an article, at their usual size. Here's the original:
+
 
{| style="border:1px solid #AAAAAA;" cellpadding=3px align=left width=100%
+
== Articles for individual environmental hazards ==
|[[Special:Categories|Categories]]: [[:Category:Untradeable items|Untradeable items]] | [[:Category:Medieval weapons|Medieval weapons]] | [[:Category:Weapons|Weapons]] | [[:Category:Melee weapons|Melee weapons]] | [[:Category:Valve-made items|Valve-made items]] | [[:Category:Promotional items|Promotional items]] | [[:Category:Spy|Spy]] | [[:Category:Reskins|Reskins]]
+
 
 +
Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: [[Ghost]], [[Pumpkin bomb]], [[Saw blade]], and [[Train]].
 +
 
 +
These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "''[Train horn noises]''". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the [[Environmental death]] article.
 +
 
 +
I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to [[Pitfall]].
 +
 
 +
As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:
 +
* Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
 +
* Create a separate page for that (similar to the [[Item timeline]] pages).
 +
* Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).
 +
 
 +
I am ok with [[Skeletons]] and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).
 +
 
 +
Opinions? - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to [[List of game modes]], where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:: I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by {{code|<nowiki>== Section title ==</nowiki>}}) would be a "complete" article.<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== A request ==
 +
 
 +
In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because [[Classic]] and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use <nowiki>{{ucfirst:<string>}}</nowiki> to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, <nowiki>{{ucfirst:hello world}}</nowiki> generates {{ucfirst:hello world}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::Could you help me with this? I've changed it in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{tl|lang}} template instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::::[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3408072&oldid=3388990 I already did it once and...] [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::::Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{tl|lang incomplete}}?<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::::::I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3584139&oldid=3583139 this edit]? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
{{Outdent|6}}Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link <nowiki>[[VintageVintage]]</nowiki>.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history ==
 +
 
 +
I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. [[User:The American Boot|The American Boot]] ([[User talk:The American Boot|talk]]) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed [[Help:Style_guide/Trivia|Trivia guild]].[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The [[Art Pass Contest]] page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts ==
 +
 
 +
I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the [[Lollichop]], which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the [[Third Degree]] and [[Neon Annihilator]], which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the [[Cow Mangler 5000]], [[Scottish Resistance]], and [[Ullapool Caber]], which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the [[Vita-Saw]], which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.
 +
 
 +
I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.
 +
 
 +
Speaking of the [[Pyro taunts]] page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization ==
 +
 
 +
'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:See [[Template:Dictionary/common_strings#.5BMain_Page.5D_Smissmas_2023|Dictionary common strings]].<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:: Thanks. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work ==
 +
 
 +
[[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_Wiki:Wiki_Birthday#Official.E2.84.A2_Team_Fortress_Energy_Drink]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]]''' ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Nonolemage|contribs]]) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC</small>
 +
 
 +
:Please sign your messages using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
 +
:The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc ==
 +
 
 +
Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
 
 +
1) Implement a way on the {{code|Item infobox}} template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:
 +
 
 +
a) The Heavy variant of the [[Team Captain]] only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: [https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z]. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.
 +
 
 +
b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of [[Close Quarters Cover]], include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: [https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME].
 +
 
 +
c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the [[Dead Little Buddy]] have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: [https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO].
 +
 
 +
d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the [[Jumper's Jeepcap]] would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like [[Mustachioed Mann]], would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like [[Carl]] that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
 
 +
2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): [https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP]. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
 
 +
3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: [https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo]
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
 
 +
4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Boarder%27s_Beanie&oldid=3594086 this page]). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]
 +
 
 +
a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
 
 +
5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, [[Main Cast]] would look like this: [https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs].
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
 
 +
6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like [[Dead of Night]] wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.
 +
 
 +
'''Edit:''' Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Robot_Chicken_Hat&oldid=1679218 looked like this]. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.
 +
 
 +
I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538] (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
 
 +
7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, [[Brawling Buccaneer]] would have its Painted variants table from <nowiki>{{Painted variants}}</nowiki> to <nowiki>{{Painted variants full}}</nowiki>, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
 
 +
8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as [[Manndatory Attire]], [[Beaten and Bruised]] and [[Boarder's Beanie‎]]), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6 https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6]
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
 
 +
'''Edit: ''' 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. [[Manndatory Attire]] has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.
 +
 
 +
a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.
 +
 
 +
b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like [[Onimann]] mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
 
 +
Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
 +
:2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
 +
:4/5. I like this.
 +
:6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{tl|Tabs}} template for it.
 +
:7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
 +
:8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{tl|Tabs}}.
 +
:9. See answer on 1.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::1 {{c|+|Agree}} - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
 +
::2 / 3 {{c|?|Not sure / changes}} - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
 +
::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - This also looks nice.
 +
::5 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.
 +
::6 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
 +
::7 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
 +
::8 {{c|+|Agree / changes}} - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
 +
::9 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.
 +
::[[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Speech typing.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] [[File:Photo Badge Decal Example.png|15px|link=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:ListFiles?limit=25&user=Andrew360&ilshowall=0]] 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::1 {{c|-|Disagree}} - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
 +
:::2 {{c|+|Agree}} - Good idea!
 +
:::3 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
 +
:::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - Yes.
 +
:::5 {{c|+|Agree}} - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
 +
:::6 {{c|+|Agree}} - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
 +
:::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - Same with Andrew360
 +
:::8 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{tl|Tabs}}?
 +
:::9 {{c|?|Disagree.. or Sorta Agree}} - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
 +
:::[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::::1 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
 +
::::2 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I wanna see how it would look first.
 +
::::3 {{c|+|Agree}} - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
 +
::::4 {{c|+|Strongly agree}} - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
 +
::::5 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I like the idea, but it will take a '''lot''' of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
 +
::::6 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Same answer as 5.
 +
::::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
 +
::::8 {{c|-|Somewhat disagree}} - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
 +
::::9 {{c|-|Strongly disagree}} - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
 +
::::[[User:ShadowMan44|ShadowMan44]] ([[User talk:ShadowMan44|talk]]) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::::So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.
 +
 
 +
:::::However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.
 +
 
 +
:::::GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.
 +
 
 +
:::::GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the [[Boarder's Beanie]] paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.
 +
 
 +
:::::My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.
 +
 
 +
:::::ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.
 +
 
 +
:::::Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something [[Liquor Locker]], [[Pocket-Medes]], etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.
 +
 
 +
:::::Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like [[Manndatory Attire]] and [[Boarder's Beanie]] wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?
 +
 
 +
:::::ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the [[Dead of Night]] and [[Pocket-Medes]]. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::::::So [[User:Tekinz|Tekinz]] and [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:
 +
 
 +
::::::Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.
 +
 
 +
::::::mgpt:
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 4. You got my vote, very good;
 +
::::::{{c|-|Disagree}} 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;
 +
::::::{{c|Info}} 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in [[Brigade Helm]]? If so, I don't see a problem;
 +
::::::{{c|Info}} 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? [https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C] Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;
 +
::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;
 +
::::::{{c|Info}} 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of [[Beaten and Bruised]], the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;
 +
::::::{{c|Info}} I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::::::I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:
 +
:::::::7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of [[Stout Shako]];
 +
:::::::7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. '''Post-thoughts:''' After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.
 +
:::::::8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the [[Boarder's Beanie]] images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.
 +
:::::::9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
{{Outdent|7}} 1 {{c|?|Not sure}} It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.<br>
 +
2/3 {{c|+|Agree}} It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!<br>
 +
4 {{c|+|Agree}} Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)<br>
 +
5 {{c|-|Disagree}} On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.<br>
 +
6 {{c|?|Not sure}} I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.<br>
 +
7 {{c|?|Not sure}} I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.<br>
 +
8 {{c|+|Agree}} I agree with the others on this point, {{tl|Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.<br>
 +
9 {{c|-|Disagree}} See #8<br>
 +
[[User:H20verdrive|H20verdrive]] ([[User talk:H20verdrive|talk]]) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:
 +
:1. {{c|+|Agree}} Very good stuff.
 +
:2. {{c|?|Abstain}} Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.
 +
:3. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.
 +
:4. {{c|+|Agree}} Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.
 +
:5. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} Seems alright.
 +
:6. {{c|?|Abstain}} It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.
 +
:7. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.
 +
:8. {{c|+|Agree}} Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.
 +
:9. {{c|-|Weak Disagree}} As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.
 +
:Overall, if I had to give a vote for the ''whole package'', {{c|+|Agree, with tweaking}}.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:
 +
{| class="wikitable"
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 1 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''7''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 2 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''7''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 3 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''9''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 4 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''10''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''0'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 5 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''4''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''4''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 6 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''4''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}:  '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''4'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 7 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''8''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 8 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''8''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
 +
|-
 +
| Suggestion 9 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''2''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''3''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''4'''
 
|}
 
|}
<br><br>
+
My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
::And here's a version with icons:<br>
+
 
{| style="border:1px solid #AAAAAA;" cellpadding=3px align=left width=100%
+
== Userbox, and creator page ==
|[[Special:Categories|Categories]]: [[File:Item icon World Traveler's Hat.png|x17px|link=Category:Untradeable items]][[:Category:Untradeable items|Untradeable items]] | [[File:Item icon Boston Basher.png|x17px|link=Category:Medieval weapons]][[:Category:Medieval weapons|Medieval weapons]] | [[File:Item icon Shotgun.png|x17px|link=Category:Weapons]][[:Category:Weapons|Weapons]] | [[File:Item icon Fire Axe.png|x17px|link=Category:Melee weapons]][[:Category:Melee weapons|Melee weapons]] | [[File:Item icon Party Hat.png|x17px|link=Category:Valve-made items]][[:Category:Valve-made items|Valve-made items]] | [[File:Item icon Alien Swarm Parasite.png|x17px|link=Category:Promotional items]][[:Category:Promotional items|Promotional items]] | [[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|x17px|link=Category:Spy]][[:Category:Spy|Spy]] | [[File:Item icon Lugermorph.png|x18px|link=Category:Reskins]][[:Category:Reskins|Reskins]]
+
 
|}
+
Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
<br><br>
+
 
::I think there's potential, but we'd need to use icons which are a bit easier to distinguish. The Spy icon works well, but I couldn't think of anything else to use for the weapons. I suppose kill icons might be OK, but they'd need to be cropped a little. Of course, the other side of the argument is that they're just categories, and we don't really need to clutter up this space with images. What does everyone else think? '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 06:09, 8 April 2012 (PDT)
+
:For userboxes see [[Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes]]. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{tl|User infobox}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
:::I agree that the class icons have potential to serve as a bit of illustration. However it would be difficult to find a representative icon for the weapon categories. Whatever the case, Wikipedia itself does not use images in its categories. [[User:Upgrade|Upgrade]] 14:24, 8 April 2012 (PDT)
+
 
:{{c|No}} This seems unnecessary. It would probably be a pain to implement as well. [[File:User_M-NINJA_Signature.png|link=User:M-NINJA]] 15:17, 8 April 2012 (PDT)
+
::Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
::It really wouldn't be a pain to implement... <span style="border:2px solid red;border-radius:5px;-moz-border-radius:5px;-o-border-radius:5px;-webkit-border-radius:5px;-khtml-border-radius:5px;padding:3px;background-color:black">[[File:Painted Swagman's Swatter E6E6E6.png|20px|link=User:R4wrz0rz0r]] [[User:R4wrz0rz0r|{{TF2B|r4wrz|color=white|size=18px}}]]<small>[[User talk:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:white">Swagmaster</span>]]</small></span> 15:20, 8 April 2012 (PDT)
+
 
:::Well there are about 5000 categories... '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 16:33, 8 April 2012 (PDT)
+
:::[[Help:Images]] may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using [[Special:Upload|the upload page]]. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include <nowiki>[[Category:User images]]</nowiki> in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.
::I thought it would be rather obvious that I'm not making category icons for every one of them. I'll be focusing on the ones most used on item pages (which make up a lot of the wiki). <span style="border:2px solid red;border-radius:5px;-moz-border-radius:5px;-o-border-radius:5px;-webkit-border-radius:5px;-khtml-border-radius:5px;padding:3px;background-color:black">[[File:Painted Swagman's Swatter E6E6E6.png|20px|link=User:R4wrz0rz0r]] [[User:R4wrz0rz0r|{{TF2B|r4wrz|color=white|size=18px}}]]<small>[[User talk:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:white">Swagmaster</span>]]</small></span> 16:35, 8 April 2012 (PDT)
+
 
 +
:::As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::::Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Civilian Image ==
 +
 
 +
Should we change the image of the [[Civilian]] ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, [[Civilian (Classic)]] is the TFC version.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:{{C|No}} I think it's entirely unnecessary. Before making a change like this you must consider what value this adds, besides potentially looking nice -- which is an arguably point in itself. -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sup>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sup> 09:30, 10 April 2012 (PDT)
+
::Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
:{{c|oppose}} They don't add anything useful to articles and only serve to break up the text in an uneven manner, not to mention the extra page load time this would add for very little gain. This isn't intuitive, this isn't helpful, this certainly isn't readable compared to the existing text, and it's too ambiguous (e.g Luger and Shotgun meaning different things when one would expect them both to represent the weapons category). [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 09:36, 10 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
:{{c|Oppose}} Not useful (can be quite cluttering actually in some cases with too many categories), icons can be misleading, unnecessary and not widely used (as you said, you'd only be "focusing on the ones most used on item pages", when the ideal would be that they all followed whichever pattern we were to pick). However, if you improve this, I'll rethink my position (maybe). {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 10:26, 10 April 2012 (PDT)
+
:::That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
=== Round Two ===
+
== Weapon in user page ==
  
Just to clarify, the point of these isn't to make them look pretty. It's to make it easier to see the categories at a glance, (hopefully) improving user friendliness in doing so. It would be very simple to implement as it stands, and is ''very much so'' a work-in-progress. Now, I've made some changes, and they should explain themselves:
+
Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
  
[[File:User R4wrz0rz0r Categoryiconsroundtwo.png]]
+
:Well, you could try learning how to use [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Table wikitables], there are also templates like [[Template:Backpack item]] and [[Template:User weapon checklist]] you could use to this effect.<br><span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Please tell me whether or not the changes have changed your opinion. (By the way, for some reason the icons and text are larger than they should be; please keep this in mind.) <span style="border:2px solid red;border-radius:5px;-moz-border-radius:5px;-o-border-radius:5px;-webkit-border-radius:5px;-khtml-border-radius:5px;padding:3px;background-color:black">[[File:Painted Swagman's Swatter E6E6E6.png|20px|link=User:R4wrz0rz0r]] [[User:R4wrz0rz0r|{{TF2B|r4wrz|color=white|size=18px}}]]<small>[[User talk:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:white">Swagmaster</span>]]</small></span> 10:55, 10 April 2012 (PDT)
+
== Allweapons Nav template ==
:And how would they look like for [[:Category:Untradeable items|Untradeable items]], [[:Category:Valve-made items|Valve-made items]], [[:Category:Promotional items|Promotional items]] and [[:Category:Reskins|Reskins]]? The main issue is the ambiguity of the currently used icons. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 11:01, 10 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:Those, I think, we can leave without making icons for. AFAIK, they are not interesting to the average user. <span style="border:2px solid red;border-radius:5px;-moz-border-radius:5px;-o-border-radius:5px;-webkit-border-radius:5px;-khtml-border-radius:5px;padding:3px;background-color:black">[[File:Painted Swagman's Swatter E6E6E6.png|20px|link=User:R4wrz0rz0r]] [[User:R4wrz0rz0r|{{TF2B|r4wrz|color=white|size=18px}}]]<small>[[User talk:r4wrz0rz0r|<span style="color:white">Swagmaster</span>]]</small></span> 11:05, 10 April 2012 (PDT)
 
::Then I'll have to {{c|Disagree}} again because, as I said, these would be "''not widely used (as you said, you'd only be 'focusing on the ones most used on item pages', when the ideal would be that they all followed whichever pattern we were to pick)''". Nonetheless, the icons can be still misleading. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 18:10, 12 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
{{c|Yes}} I like it!, It makes the wiki look better and make it more friendly for the user. icons does make things much more clearer, sometimes a name isn't enough and an image could do all the magic to clear things up. [[User:Atlas|Atlas]] 07:46, 22 April 2012 (PDT)
+
Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current [[Template:Allweapons Nav|Allweapons Nav]] template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on [[User:Mgpt/Sandbox#Test|my sandbox user page]] ('''Nav 1''' and '''Nav 2'''). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in '''Nav 2''' appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== Change naming process(>100.000edits needed)+ Trading Cards - Consistent image, filetypes + descriptions ==
+
:I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:: Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
As already mentioned on the Talk page - [[Talk:Trading_cards]]
+
:::I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
The image names for the front and back of trading cards are inconsistant and misleading, for example we have:
+
:::::I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
[[:Image:scout1.png]], [[:Image:scout2.png]] | [[:Image:Demo_front.jpg]], [[:Image:Demo_back.jpg]] | [[:Image:engineer_back.jpg]] , [[:Image:engie2.jpg]] |[[:Image:Spy_Card1.jpg]], [[:Image:spy2.jpg]]
 
  
On top of this the names and descriptions dont match so [[:Image:Demo_back.jpg]] has description "Demoman trading card '''(Front)'''" and [[:Image:Demo_front.jpg]] has "Demoman trading card '''(Back)'''"
+
{{outdent|5}} Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.  
  
I assume there would also be a preference for all images to be png? [[User:Govcon|Govcon]] 11:02, 11 April 2012 (PDT)
+
Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."
 +
* That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
 +
* It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
: I made some changes, thanks for the input [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
  
: Sooo this came up yesterday and I know we are all pretty busy. So I will now change the topic a bit and reduce your time to waste on it. <br>The question is: Do we need clear file names? The answer is obvious, we need to have a clear destincton for every file, so we dont need to scroll down to see where this picture is used and what for, and we have a base on how to proceed for now and the future uploads. We want to look and see in the file name a clear reason to it. <br><br>So gentlemen is this policy used by everyone? I dont see it the way it used to be. So that brings us into the unique position to add a little spirit and faith into the wiki and work as a team to reduce the file names which makes no sense to us, and add a little more logic into the wiki. You could ask: Why should we do that, because it works the way it is know? I can only beg of you to think about it, because in the future we will always get more and more insight and more information about the process. <br><br>'''So as an example''', we dont want any File which are named Pyro1(picture of pyro) and Pyro2(trading card), or Demoman_back and Pyro_(Back), which are not telling you the right story, and are not consistent if you look for them first or try to add them yourself. Also i wanted to make this discussion more active because our workforce is needed in full strength. <br><br>Because from 1 till >100.000 edits all is possible if this naming procedure will be agreed on. So must chose now like we did in the past with normal weapons and hats with the naming to also have a general rule for the naming of files, and i think my client(Govcon) made a good example about how we can do it in this case, and also we should make some more rules for different kind of pictures, so that's it. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 05:33, 12 April 2012 (PDT) <br>((((I always always always always wanted to be a lawyer for once, even if pretending, sorry.))))
+
:: Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make ''as much'' sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
::I started the process of making all the images of hats and misc items have consistent filenames, but I don't think it's necessary to do this for every image on the wiki. The trading card images are used once on the class pages and [[Trading cards]] page, but nowhere else, and I don't see them being used for anything else in the future. Consistency is good, but there is little point in changing the filenames of images which are only used on one or two pages and unlikely to be touched again. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 10:04, 12 April 2012 (PDT)
+
::: I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::: Updated the template [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== Propose time! ==
+
== About the 2023 leak ==
  
I really like the Workshop, despite all the futuristic things and all. But I wanna suggest a build-in window for the homepage to the Wiki with a title called something related to the workshop. The item thumbnail picture should be loaded up with a direct link to the Steam Workshop item. A simple idea, but I need to hear out some of the Community if they (and you too, reader) would agree or mean the opposite of my suggestion here. This is what most people would call advertising, but I find it good to show other peoples work. The items showed must not last longer than a maximum of 24 hours and a minimum time of 12 (Change time if needed). Well, hope it would be a great and valuable contribution. Ready? GO! [[File:User Ravecrib9t4 Signature Logo.JPG |60px]] [[User:Ravecrib9t4|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#141414 ">TNS</span>]] 02:39, 12 April 2012 (PDT)
+
Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
:{{c|Oppose}} A link to the Steam Workshop is enough ([http://screensnapr.com/v/99d2Z5.jpg and we already have one]). {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 18:08, 12 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Oppose|Nah.}} One word. Bias. [[User:R4wrz0rz0r|<span style="background:black;color:white;border:2px solid cyan;font-variant:small-caps;padding:2px">rZ</span>]] 18:57, 12 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
== Fortress Forever Trivia ==
+
:As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the [[Team Fortress Wiki:Policies#Leaked content|leaked content policy]]. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
I noticed a handful of articles (like [[Your Eternal Reward]]) have trivia about how the item is similar to the stats in the source mod Fortress Forever. I don't really see how this is important or relevant or trivia, unless we know for a fact the stats for YER were picked because of FF. This probably also applies to items that are coincidentally identical to Gang Garrison items. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 18:05, 12 April 2012 (PDT)
+
::So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== Disambiguation pages: global suggestion ==
+
:::Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Hi all!
+
::::I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
(English is not my native language, so have mercy please :). On the other hand, it means that I see the aspects of this problem that are language-dependent.)
+
== [[Template:Community Medal Nav|Community Medal Nav]] (closed) ==
  
So here are some points on the problem and a possible way to solve it.
+
I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{tl|Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
  
# '''Main point''': Disambiguation is '''always''' language-dependent.  
+
:With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
#* '''Consequently''', there can be no need in translating disambiguation description to other languages, they can just have no sense there.
+
:: Would adding an [https://i.imgur.com/XeBjHCT.png 'Other' section with two links] for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "[[Template:Competitive Nav|Competitive play]]" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?
#** Example: [[Point]]. In English this word could refer to a specific region on the ground, to the player score or to the aiming as a part of hat name. In Russian all three meanings are expressed by three different words, and the disambiguation article is not needed. Don't know about other languages, but guess it is a normal situation everywhere.
+
:: Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
#** Example 2: All those abbreviations that brought this discussion to life.
 
#* '''Consequently 2''' (less obvious), there can be disambiguations in other languages that have no sense in English.
 
#** Example: a Russian word <code>Ключ</code> (pronounced <nowiki>[klyuch]</nowiki>). This word can refer to the ''key'' as well as to the ''wrench'' in Russian, so we would like to have a disambiguation article on this word. But there is no corresponding article in English segment, as in English ''key'' and ''wrench'' have nothing in common.
 
#* '''Suggested decision''': illustrated now by an example with <code>Ключ</code>.
 
#** First, I created an article [[Ru_Klyuch/ru]]. It has a name that is more or less readable for english-speakers and is located in /ru segment (so all localized templates are working correctly). The prefix <code>Ru_</code> indicates that it is a special article and prevents possible conflicts in case some transliterations will be exactly like existing English words. I also suggest to introduce a new category for those pages, for example, <nowiki>[Category:Language-specific disambiguation]</nowiki> to help bots.
 
#** Second, I created an article [[Ключ]], as we are doing now to define a cyrillic alias. This page is a standard language redirect to [[Ru_Klyuch/ru]].
 
#** We are still within wiki standards, except that we don't have a page <nowiki>[[Ru_Klyuch]]</nowiki>. But this — and it is a key point in my suggestion — is a normal situation, because — see '''Main point'''. It is '''normal''' that a disambiguation is described in only one (or maybe several) languages and is missing in others. Of course, users in other languages will create their own pages, like <code>Fr_Shershe_La_Fam/fr</code> (one of the few phrases I know in French, lol :).
 
# '''Point #2''': We need some bot tuning, '''NOW'''. I suggest that the bot creating 'Missing translation' pages should ignore pages from [[:Category:Disambiguation]] and all language categories like [[:Category:Disambiguation/ru]]. Look at the page [[Team Fortress Wiki:Reports/Missing translations/ru|Missing translations/ru]] — we really need to '''get rid of this spam''', it makes the page completely useless now.
 
# '''Point #3''': As I have said above, a new category '''Language-specific disambiguation''' should be introduced (or choose a better name if needed). Bot should be aware of this category too, and should not process missing pages from it.
 
# After all this is done, we in our language segments should review all already localized disambiguations and kill those that don't have sense (I have started to mark such ones in Russian with <nowiki>{{cleanup}}</nowiki> now). At the same time, we should also think about our own disambiguation articles — the main goal of all this mess :)
 
  
Thanks to all who didn't quit reading :). Please think of this suggestion and if you agree, support it. It will not require much work from the wiki admins (just points #2 and #3, and a formal "Let's do it" permission), but will bring new opportunities to the non-english wiki users.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <span style="font-size:10px"><sup>[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white; background:#5B885B;padding:0 2px;">talk</span>]]</sup></span> 07:18, 17 March 2012 (PDT)
+
:::I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
:I agree with this but not the proposed naming scheme (<code>Xx_RedirectName/xx</code>). It would create articles in the main namespace, and quite a bunch of them. I would rather have a dedicated article namespace for this, even if "unofficial" (as in, not in MW's config), which would make it look like <code>Disambiguation:RedirectName/xx</code>. On top of that, it would make it easy to make the bot ignore these pages, because it would be able to tell that it is a disambiguation '''from the name''', something that is not possible currently or with the proposed naming scheme, and is crucial to being able to generate "missing translations" lists easily without having to fetch extra information — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 16:29, 18 March 2012 (PDT)
 
:: {{c|Agree}}, I like the idea of the new naming. 1) Didn't quite get it, you mean that <code>RedirectName</code> should be an English transliteration (like Klyuch) or localized (like Ключ)? And 2) what should be done before we can start making localized disambigs?&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <span style="font-size:10px"><sup>[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white; background:#5B885B;padding:0 2px;">talk</span>]]</sup></span> 13:49, 19 March 2012 (PDT)
 
:::The RedirectName would be an english translation of the name of the redirect, so <code>Disambiguation:Key/ru</code> in this example. As for #2, need to assemble a list of disambigs to migrate before doing it all in one shot so that there is no confusion or in-between mistakes. Having a proper namespace definition in the MediaWiki config would be nice, but sadly that seems unlikely to happen at the moment because Valve won't moov :( — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 14:17, 3 April 2012 (PDT)
 
::::And why not <code>Disambiguation:Wrench/ru</code>? The main problem is that, as I have said, <nowiki>[klyuch]</nowiki> can refer to the ''key'' as well as to the ''wrench'' in Russian. And the disambiguation word to explain is ''Klyuch'' — there is no english equivalent to it, that's why I suggest to use transliteration. As for 2), I think that all current [[:Category:Disambiguation/ru]] can be processed.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <sup><span style="background:#5B885B; color:white; font-size:8px; padding-left: 2px; padding-right: 2px; padding-bottom: 1px">[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white">T</span>]]│[[Special:Contributions/Stormbird|<span style="color:white">C</span>]]</span></sup> 12:30, 6 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:::::Then how about naming it <code>Disambiguation:RedirectName/xx</code> where <code>RedirectName</code> is the name of the redirect page that goes to <code>Disambiguation:RedirectName/xx</code> (I think that was the original idea lol) — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 23:59, 7 April 2012 (PDT)
 
::::::You got it :). Redirect page <code>Ключ</code> should go to <code>Disambiguation:Klyuch/ru</code>, making it clear both for russian and english users (the latter just need to know that the page concerns '''ru'''ssian '''disambiguation'''). As for current english disambiguations, they will look like <code>Disambiguation:Point</code>, which is also easy to understand and support.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <sup><span style="background:#5B885B; color:white; font-size:8px; padding-left: 2px; padding-right: 2px; padding-bottom: 1px">[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white">T</span>]]│[[Special:Contributions/Stormbird|<span style="color:white">C</span>]]</span></sup> 02:35, 8 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:::::::Alright from me, but:
 
* Need more staff support for this (is big move and so far I'm the only one saying anything here)
 
* Need to make a list of such disambigs and where they should be moved to, in all languages (this will take some time)
 
— [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 11:40, 9 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:::::::{{c|Support|Senõr Support}} -[[User:RJackson|<span class="modbg" style="margin-right:1px;text-shadow: #538237 1px 1px 0px;">RJ</span>]] 11:43, 9 April 2012 (PDT)
 
: I can talk about russian segment only. As for russian disambiguations, [[:Category:Disambiguation/ru|this category]] now counts 276 pages, but the large part of them have no sense and can be removed permanently. The other part, however, should be preserved (maybe with small corrections) and be 'equipped' with transliteration and cyrillic redirect. This process will take some time and some efforts. I suggest to start with moving ALL those pages automatically to the new namespace, leaving their current names ({{code|Baseball cap/ru}} → {{code|Disambiguation:Baseball cap/ru}}) and adding some marking infobox like <nowiki>{{retrans}} or {{cleanup|Check if disambiguation exists in Russian}}</nowiki>. Having all this, local editors can process those pages: rename + add cyrillic redirect + remove marking infobox — or, if needed, just empty the article and add <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki>. No additional help from administration will be required at this step.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <sup><span style="background:#5B885B; color:white; font-size:8px; padding-left: 2px; padding-right: 2px; padding-bottom: 1px">[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white">T</span>]]│[[Special:Contributions/Stormbird|<span style="color:white">C</span>]]</span></sup> 12:20, 9 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:: Even better idea: the new infobox with instructions explaining the new disambig structure. It should briefly explain what to do with the article, so that any editor can understand the point. Maybe it should also add some special category mark, like {{code|[Disambiguations that require review/xx]}} — it will help monitoring progress. I can prepare the infobox draft tomorrow.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <sup><span style="background:#5B885B; color:white; font-size:8px; padding-left: 2px; padding-right: 2px; padding-bottom: 1px">[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white">T</span>]]│[[Special:Contributions/Stormbird|<span style="color:white">C</span>]]</span></sup> 12:27, 9 April 2012 (PDT)
 
: Another option is not to move current disambigs at all. As I have said, most of them were created as translations of english disambigs, paying little attention to their real need in russian. Maybe it will be easier to look at all russian item names, game concepts etc. and create pure russian disambigs from scratch.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <sup><span style="background:#5B885B; color:white; font-size:8px; padding-left: 2px; padding-right: 2px; padding-bottom: 1px">[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white">T</span>]]│[[Special:Contributions/Stormbird|<span style="color:white">C</span>]]</span></sup> 12:20, 9 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
:{{C|Agree|I agree,}} it never made sense to me the way it's set up now. Disambigs should only really be used to disambiguate search terms. -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sup>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sup> 09:38, 10 April 2012 (PDT)
+
:::: I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
::{{C|Agree|I agree}} I like dis idea--[[User:FreeXMan|<font style="text-shadow:green 0px 0px 9px;"><b><font FACE="Times New Roman" color="#008000">FreeXMan</font>]]</b> <font FACE="Times New Roman" color="#808080">[[User_talk:FreeXMan|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/FreeXMan|Cont]]</font></font> 12:26, 10 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
: Something like this: [[User:Stormbird/Template:Disambiguation that needs review]]. Maybe someone could help making the english description better. I also added detailed russian description, giving an example.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <sup><span style="background:#5B885B; color:white; font-size:8px; padding-left: 2px; padding-right: 2px; padding-bottom: 1px">[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white">T</span>]]│[[Special:Contributions/Stormbird|<span style="color:white">C</span>]]</span></sup> 12:38, 11 April 2012 (PDT)
+
::::: Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not ''exactly'' the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what ''I'' wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then ''that's'' wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
::Fixed some english on there, but it still says "move". I don't think it should say that because regular users could interpret that as doing the moving by themselves (by cutting/pasting), which would lose edit history information. It's better to make it say "Mark with the {{tl|moov}} template" or something — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 18:32, 12 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:::Didn't find any 'move' word there, or maybe I understood you wrong? Anyway, feel free to change the text if you consider it necessary.&nbsp;&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <sup><span style="background:#5B885B; color:white; font-size:8px; padding-left: 2px; padding-right: 2px; padding-bottom: 1px">[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white">T</span>]]│[[Special:Contributions/Stormbird|<span style="color:white">C</span>]]</span></sup> 23:51, 12 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
== Trading needs a new video! ==
+
:::::: They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely. <br>[[User:Cheddar|Cheddar]] ([[User talk:Cheddar|talk]]) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
I'm quoting what was said on the Trading Page Discussion:  
+
{{outdent|7}}
<br><br>"
+
By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.<br>
Since we don't use the old in-game trading system, someone needs to update the video showing how trading is done via the steam trade overlay.--<small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Eugene|Eugene]]''' ([[User talk:Eugene|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Eugene|contribs]]) </small>
+
I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.<br>
:Agreed. Also, please sign all talk pages with <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki> --'''[[User:Piemanmoo|Piemanmoo]]''' 15:22, 14 March 2012 (PDT)
+
Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
{{c|done}} - I have made a demo for trading you can see it here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ_4C33w7ss . It just needs music and the image at the start but from what I understood when they upload it to the channel they it by themselves. [[User:Atlas|Atlas]] 06:21, 6 April 2012 (PDT)"
 
<br><br>
 
  
A video is made, all you have to do is to upload it! (Also...Add music, and the images in the start..) The video is on 1080 HD , this is more than the quality required. And really there is nothing to argue about - the old video is really not up to date. [[User:Atlas|Atlas]] 16:06, 13 April 2012 (PDT)
+
:If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== "Hats & Misc" instead of just "Hats" ??? ==
+
:: So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes  "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.
  
My question is if it is okay to rename the headline of each Class article from: "Hats" into "Hats & Misc" because in the past there were no miscs and now there are so many misc items. I think the headline is outdated. I also made anchors for hats and miscs into each template which lists them, so you can easily link to it directly with it. So someone against it? [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 07:39, 15 April 2012 (PDT)
+
:: I ''would'' fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
:I think it better to have a Misc subsection under the Hats header. [[User:R4wrz0rz0r|<span style="background:black;color:white;border:2px solid cyan;font-variant:small-caps;padding:2px">rZ</span>]] 05:11, 17 April 2012 (PDT)
+
::: ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{tl|Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
::If we were to split them up, we'd also have to modify the ''class hat table'' templates to display just hats, and make a seperate ''class misc table'' template. I'm for just labelling the section "Hats and miscellaneous items", or just "Cosmetic items". '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 06:05, 17 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:::There are already anchors in the template for both. So you can link [[Soldier#Misc]] f.e. or [[Soldier#Hats]] without the subsection needed so the Headline Hats could be renamed without a problem. Just not sure if all like that. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 06:07, 17 April 2012 (PDT)
 
: {{c|oppose}} I think it's much better and cleaner to have "Hats" meaning 'headgear + misc'. Everyone knows what you mean when you say hats. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 11:09, 17 April 2012 (PDT)
 
::Because your opinion implifies that people assume that "hats" are "misc", without a proper base, i ignore the last part of your statement. Still let's try it with that: "Cosmetic Items" . Opinions ? [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 13:55, 17 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:::Soooo if no statements are against "Cosmetic Items" i will edit it into every class article on sunday. Objections ?? [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]] 05:44, 19 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
== Suggestions on how to improve Beta participation. ==
+
:::: That didn't ''matter'' when some of those event pages, for '''years''', had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a ''new'' nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.  
  
Players often complain about how long it takes for Valve to implement proposed buffs/nerfs for weapons in TF2, and in Valve's defense, how can you blame them when only a small percentage of players actively participate in the TF2 Beta?
+
:::: Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
However, on the flip side, you can't exactly blame the community for not participating in the Beta, when you have to install a whole other game as well as find the free time to play it, and the only incentive to do so is to implement a small change in a weapon's stats every here and there?
+
::::: closed given the recent discussion [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Well, I have a suggestion that may serve as a solution to the problem, or at the very least, provide a basis for how to improve Beta participation.
+
== Trivias without confirmations ==
  
INCENTIVE. As previously stated, most members of the TF2 community have little incentive to install/play the game, so a simple yet effective way to improve participation would be to add incentives to do so.
+
Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
Here's what I propose... Any new items that Beta testers receive in the TF2 Beta will be added to the Beta tester's backpack within the main game once said items have been thoroughly tested and added to the item schema for the main game.
+
:Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
To further explain this concept, I'll make an example. There have been proposed buffs and nerfs floating around in the Beta for weapons like the Flamethrower and Tomislav for quite some time now, yet so far neither of the weapon's have received their proposed buff/nerf as of yet. What I propose is that anyone who participates in the Beta and provides feedback, will receive a special promotional versions of whatever weapons/items they have tested in their backpacks as soon as the proposed buffs/nerfs have been implemented in the main game.
+
::What about [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Crafty_Hair#Trivia this one]? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
These special items will be labeled with a special quality, such as the existing Community quality or otherwise labeled as a new kind of quality, such as the Beta quality. (In other words, testers would receive a Community Flamethrower or Beta Tomislav in the main game once the proposed buffs/nerfs for said weapons had been implemented within the main game.) These items would be treated similarly to achievement items in the sense that they cannot be traded, and additionally cannot be gifted or crafted.
+
:::I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia [[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::::Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. [[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
See? It's not really a huge or difficult to implement incentive, just a simple one that provides Beta testers with a free weapon every here and there with a special quality that acknowledges them as valued participants in the TF2 community. And in some cases, early access to newly introduced weapons.
+
::::::Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
In addition, a very special exclusive hat (similar to the Wiki Cap) could be implemented and rewarded to long-time participants of the TF2 Beta. Perhaps one that ranks up similarly to Strange Weapons the longer a tester participates in the Beta?
+
== Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data ==
  
Anyway, it's up to Valve whether they want to take this suggestion or not. It's just a little idea that I came up with today while thinking about the Beta.
+
It seems like a very [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Reports/Untranslated_templates/fr|handy feature]] (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?<br>
If anyone has any further ideas or suggestions on how to improve on this concept, then please feel free to post them below. [[User:Blk Mage Ctype|Blk Mage Ctype]] 13:16, 20 April 2012 (PDT)
+
I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe [[User:Darkid|Darkid]]?<br>
: The wiki is not the place for this discussion. This is better suited for the [http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80 forums] [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 13:18, 20 April 2012 (PDT)
+
Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
  
== Split : Spine-Chilling Skull 2011  ==
+
:For the [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Template:Overheal_tool first result] it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. [[User:Jh34ghu43gu|Jh34ghu43gu]] ([[User talk:Jh34ghu43gu|talk]]) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 +
::I can take a look, thanks for the ping. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
  
As we all know this Halloween Valve released 4 skull hats, The [[Spine-Chilling Skull 2011]], The [[User:Atlas/Tingling-Skull|Spine-Tingling Skull]], The Spine-Cooling Skull, and The Spine-Twisting Skull. While in the wiki they are all combined into 1 page. I believe we should split them because
+
:::Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.
 +
:::I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::::+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
  
*The information is too confusing, the reader has lost us long ago when we putted 4 different items in a page. which have different earning way, look, icon, name, time available, e.t.c.
+
== A technical request for "Used by" template ==
  
*They are 4 different items - They look alike but they are still each item for his own. You don't see me put all the Ghastly Gibuses in one article.
+
"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "<nowiki>{{Used by|all}}</nowiki>" and "<nowiki>{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}</nowiki>" sound fine, but "<nowiki>{{Used by|all-except|</nowiki>" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "<nowiki>{{Used by|all-except|</nowiki>"):
 +
:Scout = Skauta
 +
:Soldier = Żołnierza
 +
:Pyro = Pyro
 +
:Demoman = Demomana
 +
:Heavy = Grubego
 +
:Enginner = Inżyniera
 +
:Medic = Medyka
 +
:Sniper = Snajpera
 +
:Spy = Szpiega
 +
[[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
  
*The page is way to big.
+
:These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 +
::Thanks. I've moved it there. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
  
Beside that, our work is already done. Also if you could take a look I've linked you to the Spinge-Tingling Skull page I've already done to show you how much better and less confusing the page looks.
+
== Where can I interact with the community? ==
  
{{c|Note}} I will take action if there will not be any '''reasonable''' negative comments in 5 days. [[User:Atlas|Atlas]] 11:24, 21 April 2012 (PDT)
+
Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.
: {{c|disagree}}. The main text has 3 paragraphs, 2 lines each. It is long just because of several painting schemas (maybe it is possible to hide them like some nav pages?). And all those 3 hats are in fact styles of one. There is almost nothing to write about each one of the hats, and instead, we'll have to repeat the same information (obtaining etc.) on every related page.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[File:Login_Soldier.png|link=User:Stormbird]][[User:Stormbird|<span style="color:#5B885B;font-size:13px;font-family:'Arial';font-weight: bold;">Stormbird</span>]] <sup><span style="background:#5B885B; color:white; font-size:8px; padding-left: 2px; padding-right: 2px; padding-bottom: 1px">[[User talk:Stormbird|<span style="color:white">T</span>]]│[[Special:Contributions/Stormbird|<span style="color:white">C</span>]]</span></sup> 11:38, 21 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Disagree}} While they might behave like 3 different hats when crafted, the bought version still treats them as styles which can be switched around. And you can't deny that they are all the same skull, just with different horns. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 14:36, 21 April 2012 (PDT)
 
It's okay for the content to repeat sometimes. it does that often in the wiki. Beside I want someone to search for Spine-Tingling Skull and get the right information. I don't want him to buy a 3 styled hat instead of what he orignally wanted . Anyway we obviously need to clean the mess up with that page.  [[User:Atlas|Atlas]] 14:38, 21 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|agree}} Similar circumstances as the various forms of the [[Ghastly Gibus]] (which all have their own page) [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 14:42, 21 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|agree}} Aside from that of the [[Spine-Chilling Skull 2011]] wherein the separate hats are only considered styles, all crafted variants of the hat are indeed separate, so they should have their own separate pages. [[User:Blk Mage Ctype|Blk Mage Ctype]] 11:53, 22 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|agree}} and I talked this to death when the hats came out. No one was on my side at that point but I am in favor of four distinct articles (each of which clearly leads to the others). (Note, however, that this hat is not really the same as the [[Treasure Hat]] and the [[Ghastlier Gibus]] because those hats have a distinct appearance of their own. The Spine-Chilling Skull 2011 does not.) &ndash; [[User:Fashnek|<span style="text-size:1.5em;font-weight:bold;color:#363;text-shadow:0 0 0.8em #6c6;">fashnek</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Fashnek|talk]]&#183;[[Special:Contributions/Fashnek|c]])</sub> 17:08, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Disagree}} Quoting '''[[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]]''' in [[Talk:Spine-Chilling Skull 2011#The game considers them 4 distinct hats|a previous discussion on this matter]], ''"The page quite clearly states that "crafted versions of this hat will randomly select one of three styles and permanently lock itself, unable to change style. The hat will be named after the crafted style, counting as its own unique item." There's no need for redundant pages. The Gibus does not behave in the same way, so it's not comparable. The statement on the page makes it quite clear how the hat behaves; the extra pages add nothing of substance to the Wiki. Keep in mind that the ability to "downgrade" your treasure/bounty/houwar hat was patched in later, whereas these skulls are simply styles derived from one hat."'' tl;dr, the Spine-Tingling, Cooling and Twisting Skulls are the same item (Spine-Chilling Skull 2011) with only one style each. Comparing it to the Gibus is completely wrong, since they are "obtained" in different ways and act differently. Also, your reasons for splitting that article are too foggy. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 17:13, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:: {{c|Comment}} One thing to consider is the amount of images the page requires right now. It would be nice if we had all class galleries for all three styles, and in that case, that's 27 images right there, plus all three paint galleries and the page is looking a little bloated with images. Plus we are missing two backpack icons, which we do not have (despite them existing). That's a lot of images on one page, especially on a page where it can be avoided (unlike something like the Reggae hat). It may be redundant information wise (but this can be said for a lot of hats), but it seems odd to not have a page for these items and yet we have pages for the special Modest Pile of Hat that only has a badge on it marking its only difference from the Modest Pile. Technically, one line saying "There is also an identical version with a button on it called..." and that would serve the same function as separate pages. And yet we have separate pages for those items. A measure that was almost unanimously voted in favor of. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 15:44, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
== Necromancy! ==
+
[[User:QS Quark|QS Quark]] ([[User talk:QS Quark|talk]]) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
  
OK, you all saw this template sit on the previous version of this page for about 2 months. It gained mostly positive reactions but got paused when more important stuff (read: Mint/Eight painted hat images) needed doing. Well, I've finished it now, and made Hat and Misc versions of it, too.<br />
+
:You can join the [[IRC]] if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
In addition, the code has been split up and been made a LOT more streamlined.
 
* [[User:Rebmcr/Template:Weapon qualities checklist|Original Weapon template]]
 
* [[User:Rebmcr/Template:Hat qualities checklist|New Hat template]]
 
* [[User:Rebmcr/Template:Misc qualities checklist|New Misc template]]
 
But wait, there's more! They also now support appending <code>/(class name)</code> to the end of the template (e.g. <code><nowiki>{{User:Rebmcr/Template:Weapon qualities checklist/scout}}</nowiki></code>), to produce a collapsed version of the template that is suitable for tucking under the navboxes at the bottom of articles. Like so:
 
{{User:Rebmcr/Template:Weapon qualities checklist/scout}}
 
All the templates still need some more optimising, and assuming no-one objects, I intend to move them into the main namespace in a few days, so as to allow me to strip a load of userspace code out of them and knock about 33% off the total filesize.<br />
 
'''But that's not all!''' I'm also offering a bounty of 1 scrap for every mistake you can find in these templates. Note that one-off hats (e.g. Top Notch), one-off qualities (e.g. Vintage Companion Cube Pin), and glitches (e.g. Vintage Bill's Hat) are omitted intentionally. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 06:45, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:Do you think you could tweak the colors you're using right now? As it stands it's difficult for a deuteranopic colorblind user like myself to be able to effectively use this tool because of how the colors run together. You can see how it looks using [http://colorfilter.wickline.org/?a=1;r=;l=0;j=1;u=wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User%3ARebmcr/Template%3AWeapon_qualities_checklist/scout;t=d this tool]. ==[[User:FaxCelestis|Fax Celestis]] <sub>[[User_talk:FaxCelestis|talk]]</sub><small>[[Special:Contributions/FaxCelestis|contrib]]</small><sup>[http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/ home]</sup> 07:12, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:: I see. That's a useful tool that I haven't seen before, thanks for the heads-up. I was already aware that colour is the primary identifier, however I made sure to include tooltips as reminders, in addition to keeping the position of each quality static for each item. Once it's in the main namespace, I might gain some performance overhead and be able to add a colourblind toggle - what would be a good set of colours to switch to? [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 07:21, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
 
::: Try messing around with [http://colorlab.wickline.org/colorblind/colorlab/ this thingy.] I'm not versed well in how it works, but I've seen its use and it is effective. ==[[User:FaxCelestis|Fax Celestis]] <sub>[[User_talk:FaxCelestis|talk]]</sub><small>[[Special:Contributions/FaxCelestis|contrib]]</small><sup>[http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/ home]</sup> 09:00, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
 
::::Well, those are the colors shown in-game, so it's mostly Valve's problem. Also, {{c|+|Support Forever}}. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 17:16, 23 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:::::Valve does include a colorblind mode in TF2 as well. Look in the Adv. options. Failing that, how hard would it be to include a colorblind toggle on the template that would alter the colors? Worst case scenario, you need two templates; best case, you can build it into the main one and flip a switch. ==[[User:FaxCelestis|Fax Celestis]] <sub>[[User_talk:FaxCelestis|talk]]</sub><small>[[Special:Contributions/FaxCelestis|contrib]]</small><sup>[http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/ home]</sup> 08:07, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|info}} You know Pip boy and Wingstick are available at genuine quality ;) (sssh, I won't charge metal) , Polycount pin can be found in Community and Self-Made qualities (I suggest you do something similar to the one of the Wiki Cap) also  Lugermorph. Frying Pan,Half-Zatoichi and Pain Train  are multi-class weapons. [[User:Atlas|Atlas]] 11:55, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:: Weird, at first glance there is no reason that the Pip-Boy and Wingstick should not be showing as Genuine. I'll have to spend some time on it later. Thanks for the heads-up about the Polycount Pin. Previous version had consensus to fold-in multi-class wepons so I just left the Saxxy & Objector in the bottom section as special cases. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 06:35, 25 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|pro}} I love it - it's simple and very understood able. Keep on the amazing work [[User:Atlas|Atlas]] 11:55, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Support}} a big + from me. '''» [[User:Cooper Kid|<span style="color:red">Coo</span><span style ="color:gray">per</span><span style ="color:blue"> Kid</span>]]''' <small>([[User_talk:Cooper Kid|blether]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Cooper Kid|contreebs]])</small> 12:02, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
==(-)- or (-)- or please make it only (-) ; right?==
+
== April fool's? ==
  
{{con}}- <br>{{con}} - <br>{{con}} <br> I think the last one should be the standard. Someone against it? Because when i see on the main class article a very different way of listing it and it should be used on all the same way with the same rules. Also this concerns me in a math way: "{{Con}}+100% fire damage vulnerability on wearer " < this looks so weird (-+). Like i talked with Asplode in the chat, the wiki people are clever and smart they will find a solution. To turn up the heat i will wait till Friday and after that post my own rulebook idea if no one has a solution, thanks. [[User:TheDoctor|TheDoctor]]
+
I've been absent a bit because of health issues lately, sorry, but I noticed there's no April Fools thing this year there? :(--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
: {{c|agree}} And in cases like "{{Con}}+100% fire damage vulnerability on wearer " we could just use a red plus instead of a minus. [[File:Pyro_emblem_RED.png|24px|link=User_talk:burny]][[User:burny|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#fcc00 ">burny</span>]] 06:40, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
 
: {{c|support}} Red plusses (plus-es? plus's? pli?) [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 06:53, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Disagree}} What about negative + ones, (like Burny stated. They should all follow the same pattern IMO) or ones without a symbol ([[Eyelander|No random critical hits]]), or negative ones without a symbol already ([[Candy Cane|25% explosive damage vulnerability on wearer]]), or cases where it would be really confusing ([[Warrior's Spirit|20 max health on wearer]] seems like the wearer will only have 20 health points when equipping it, [[Loch-n-Load|25% damage to self]] seems like you have a 75% protection against your own bombs. Plus, if this patterm was to be followed by {{pro}} ones, [[Ali Baba's Wee Booties|100% increase in turning control while charging]] would sound pointless if you had the same charge turn rate as before, or if you only had [[Scottish Resistance|6 max pipebombs out]]). All the three icons used for attributes -- {{pro}}, {{neutral}} or {{con}} -- are only used to indicate if the attribute is positive, neutral or negative. These icons are representations of how the effect affects the player, not representations of plus/minus symbols.<br>Well, my biggest issue in this case is that these symbols are about whether the attribute called positive, neutral or negative by the game files, while "+" and "-" symbols in the attrib's text is solely about what it does. There are positive +'s, negative +'s, positive -'s and negative -'s, placed in the start or the end of the attribute; a "simple" color-changing icon wouldn't be of any help, as those two things are completely unrelated. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 11:05, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|disagree}} I wouldn't waste your time like Eric did, cause I think exactly like him. [[User:Atlas|Atlas]]
 
* New {{c|suggestion}} It seems that perhaps a departure from the in-game wording might suit our purposes better. For example instead of "+100% fire damage vulnerability on wearer", instead we could put "Double fire damage vulnerability on wearer". It would be stupid to keep the misleading and ambiguous wording, just for the sake of mimicing the game. We are here to provide expanded information, not mirror what you can already find out by reading the backpack text. [[User:Rebmcr|<span style="font-family:&#34;TF2 Build&#34;,sans-serif;font-size:120%"><span style="color:#FF2A55;">reb</span><span style="color:#002A55;">mcr</span></span>]] 11:38, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:That's almost completely unrelated to the original disccusion, but still, {{c|Support}}. If we want to cover info, we must make sure that info gets accross to the viewer, without any misinterpretations. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 14:25, 24 April 2012 (PDT)
 
* New {{c|suggestion}} How about something like [http://i45.tinypic.com/205wkqv.png this], the icon with out the plus or the minus wouldn't be misleading. [[File:Pyro_emblem_RED.png|24px|link=User_talk:burny]][[User:burny|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#fcc00 ">burny</span>]] 07:21, 25 April 2012 (PDT)
 
* {{c|comment}} Our listed attributes should match the games as closely as possible. The articles can explain the confusingness of Valve's wording. However, I'm pretty neutral on this, because the raw attributes will always be under the infobox anyway. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 13:20, 25 April 2012 (PDT)
 
  
== Sorting old undocumented notes ==
+
: Probably, yes. Since I didn't notice anything relate to April fools event other than the page itself (normally there will be someone create a April fools sandbox page before April fools event).[[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 03:45, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
  
I've noticed on some newer patches with a lot of item changes: [[March 22, 2012 Patch]], [[February 9, 2012 Patch]] we sort the undocumented changes in a way similar to how Valve structures lengthy patchnotes. This might be something worth doing for older, larger patches, as some are kind of scattered ([[September 30, 2010 Patch]] for example) and could use some nice organization. It's nothing major, but I know people are always looking for stuff to do, so this might be something worth doing, just making sure everything is nice and tidy. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 13:44, 26 April 2012 (PDT)
+
::The only thing that was planned was a patch, no other efforts were made, unfortunately.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 08:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
:{{c|Neutral}} That's okay, I guess, but I don't think that really needs to be done. As long as the message gets across to the readers, it's fine. {{n}} [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 15:03, 26 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:: {{c|Comment}} It doesn't ''need'' to be done per-say, but we're at a point now where the English articles are basically complete as far as information is concerned. I hate to call it "busy work" but it seems that if it's just sitting there, unsorted and there's nothing left to do... might as well make the page a little neater and easier to read. Not anything people should put priority on though. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 15:47, 26 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Comment}} I'd be willing to do it, only I wouldn't know how to do so as I am unfamiliar with Valve's method of sorting lengthy patch notes. (Suggestions?) Personally though, unless there's some server limit for patch notes that we're fast approaching, then I'd just as soon leave it as is. I'd rather the pages be filled with lengthy yet descriptive patch notes than condensed ones that leave out vital information for the sake of saving space. Cataloged data can't always be "clean" and attempting to keep a database of <b>complete</b> information neat and tidy is (in the long run) an exercise in futility. [[User:Blk Mage Ctype|Blk Mage Ctype]] 10:21, 27 April 2012 (PDT)
 
::{{c|comment}} You wouldn't be removing info, you'd just be sorting the undocumented changes that do exist, and putting them in a more organized fashion for readability. See the [[February 9, 2012 Patch]] for a good example of how that's done. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 04:55, 28 April 2012 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Support}} Ah! In that case, I can do this all quite easily and will gladly undertake the task. I've already done so for the [[Backburner]] page, so tell me what you think, and if it's to your liking, then I'll get to work on more pages immediately. [[User:Blk Mage Ctype|Blk Mage Ctype]] 07:59, 28 April 2012 (PDT)
 
::{{c|comment}} Well, I did make a nice edit for you before on the Backburner page as a sample, but someone went and edited/reverted it. ('-_-)
 

Latest revision as of 19:22, 20 April 2024


Dark Mode

I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Valve Store

The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal

Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the Robot Chicken Hat page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes (Cotton Head, Brotherhood of Arms, etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model

Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the Soldier's Stash, Horrible Horns on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin (Texas Half-Pants, Millennial Mercenary's Streaming 2Fort style, Exquisite Rack, Battle Bob's With Helmet style, Bacteria Blocker's Headphones style, etc).

Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on Decorated Veteran since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).

Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.

Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.

Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The Mann-Bird of Aberdeen looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like Team Captain for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I would support every page having both team colours.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Articles for individual environmental hazards

Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: Ghost, Pumpkin bomb, Saw blade, and Train.

These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "[Train horn noises]". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the Environmental death article.

I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to Pitfall.

As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:

  • Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
  • Create a separate page for that (similar to the Item timeline pages).
  • Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).

I am ok with Skeletons and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).

Opinions? - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to List of game modes, where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by == Section title ==) would be a "complete" article.
Tiagoquix (talk) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

A request

In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because Classic and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use {{ucfirst:<string>}} to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, {{ucfirst:hello world}} generates Hello world.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Could you help me with this? I've changed it in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{lang}} template instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
I already did it once and... User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{lang incomplete}}?
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with this edit? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link [[VintageVintage]].
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history

I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. The American Boot (talk) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed Trivia guild.Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard (talk) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The Art Pass Contest page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts

I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the Lollichop, which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the Third Degree and Neon Annihilator, which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the Cow Mangler 5000, Scottish Resistance, and Ullapool Caber, which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the Vita-Saw, which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.

I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.

Speaking of the Pyro taunts page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization

'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

See Dictionary common strings.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work

[[1]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nonolemage (talk) • (contribs) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC

Please sign your messages using ~~~~.
The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc

Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:


1) Implement a way on the Item infobox template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:

a) The Heavy variant of the Team Captain only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.

b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of Close Quarters Cover, include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME.

c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the Dead Little Buddy have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO.

d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the Jumper's Jeepcap would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like Mustachioed Mann, would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like Carl that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.


2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.


3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo


4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see this page). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK

a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.


5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, Main Cast would look like this: https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs.


6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the Robot Chicken Hat page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like Dead of Night wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.

Edit: Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally looked like this. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.

I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.


7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, Brawling Buccaneer would have its Painted variants table from {{Painted variants}} to {{Painted variants full}}, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.


8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as Manndatory Attire, Beaten and Bruised and Boarder's Beanie‎), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6


Edit: 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. Manndatory Attire has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.

a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.

b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like Onimann mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.


Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
4/5. I like this.
6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{Tabs}} template for it.
7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{Tabs}}.
9. See answer on 1.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram plus.png Agree - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
2 / 3 Pictogram question.png Not sure / changes - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree - This also looks nice.
5 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.
6 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
7 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
8 Pictogram plus.png Agree / changes - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
9 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.
Andrew360 Edit icon.png Speech typing.png Photo Badge Decal Example.png 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
2 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Good idea!
3 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Yes.
5 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
6 Pictogram plus.png Agree - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
7 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Same with Andrew360
8 Pictogram question.png Not sure - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{Tabs}}?
9 Pictogram question.png Disagree.. or Sorta Agree - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard (talk) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
2 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I wanna see how it would look first.
3 Pictogram plus.png Agree - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
4 Pictogram plus.png Strongly agree - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
5 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I like the idea, but it will take a lot of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
6 Pictogram question.png Not sure - Same answer as 5.
7 Pictogram plus.png Agree - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
8 Pictogram minus.png Somewhat disagree - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
9 Pictogram minus.png Strongly disagree - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
ShadowMan44 (talk) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.
However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.
GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.
GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the Boarder's Beanie paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.
My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.
ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.
Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something Liquor Locker, Pocket-Medes, etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.
Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like Manndatory Attire and Boarder's Beanie wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?
ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the Dead of Night and Pocket-Medes. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
So Tekinz and Mgpt talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:
Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.
mgpt:
Pictogram plus.png Agree 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";
Pictogram plus.png Agree 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 4. You got my vote, very good;
Pictogram minus.png Disagree 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;
Pictogram info.png Info 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in Brigade Helm? If so, I don't see a problem;
Pictogram info.png Info 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;
Pictogram info.png Info 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of Beaten and Bruised, the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;
Pictogram info.png Info I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:
7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of Stout Shako;
7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. Post-thoughts: After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.
8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the Boarder's Beanie images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.
9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 Pictogram question.png Not sure It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.
2/3 Pictogram plus.png Agree It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)
5 Pictogram minus.png Disagree On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.
6 Pictogram question.png Not sure I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.
7 Pictogram question.png Not sure I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.
8 Pictogram plus.png Agree I agree with the others on this point, {{Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.
9 Pictogram minus.png Disagree See #8
H20verdrive (talk) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:
1. Pictogram plus.png Agree Very good stuff.
2. Pictogram question.png Abstain Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.
3. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.
4. Pictogram plus.png Agree Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.
5. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree Seems alright.
6. Pictogram question.png Abstain It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.
7. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.
8. Pictogram plus.png Agree Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.
9. Pictogram minus.png Weak Disagree As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.
Overall, if I had to give a vote for the whole package, Pictogram plus.png Agree, with tweaking.--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:
Suggestion 1 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 7 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 2 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 7 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 3 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 9 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 4 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 10 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 0
Suggestion 5 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 4 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 4 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 6 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 4 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 4
Suggestion 7 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 8 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 8 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 8 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 9 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 2 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 3 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 4

My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Userbox, and creator page

Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? Nonolemage (talk) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

For userboxes see Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{User infobox}}.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Help:Images may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using the upload page. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include [[Category:User images]] in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.
As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! Nonolemage (talk) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Civilian Image

Should we change the image of the Civilian ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found Nonolemage (talk) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, Civilian (Classic) is the TFC version.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Weapon in user page

Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? Nonolemage (talk) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, you could try learning how to use wikitables, there are also templates like Template:Backpack item and Template:User weapon checklist you could use to this effect.
Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Allweapons Nav template

Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current Allweapons Nav template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on my sandbox user page (Nav 1 and Nav 2). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! Mgpt (talk) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences Mgpt (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. Mgpt (talk) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.

Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."

  • That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
  • It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
I made some changes, thanks for the input Mgpt (talk) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make as much sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... Mgpt (talk) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Updated the template Mgpt (talk) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

About the 2023 leak

Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) Nonolemage (talk) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the leaked content policy. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) Nonolemage (talk) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! Nonolemage (talk) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Community Medal Nav (closed)

I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance Mgpt (talk) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Would adding an 'Other' section with two links for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "Competitive play" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?
Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion Mgpt (talk) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). — Tark 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not exactly the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what I wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then that's wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely.
Cheddar (talk) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.
I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.
Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. — Tark 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.
I would fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. Mgpt (talk) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
That didn't matter when some of those event pages, for years, had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a new nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.
Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
closed given the recent discussion Mgpt (talk) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Trivias without confirmations

Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
What about this one? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data

It seems like a very handy feature (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?
I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe Darkid?
Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

For the first result it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. Jh34ghu43gu (talk) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
I can take a look, thanks for the ping. Darkid « TalkContribs » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.
I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. Darkid « TalkContribs » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

A technical request for "Used by" template

"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "{{Used by|all}}" and "{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}" sound fine, but "{{Used by|all-except|" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "{{Used by|all-except|"):

Scout = Skauta
Soldier = Żołnierza
Pyro = Pyro
Demoman = Demomana
Heavy = Grubego
Enginner = Inżyniera
Medic = Medyka
Sniper = Snajpera
Spy = Szpiega

User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. I've moved it there. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Where can I interact with the community?

Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.

QS Quark (talk) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

You can join the IRC if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

April fool's?

I've been absent a bit because of health issues lately, sorry, but I noticed there's no April Fools thing this year there? :(--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Probably, yes. Since I didn't notice anything relate to April fools event other than the page itself (normally there will be someone create a April fools sandbox page before April fools event).Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 03:45, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
The only thing that was planned was a patch, no other efforts were made, unfortunately.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 08:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)