Difference between revisions of "Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion"

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[[Category:Team Fortress Wiki]]
 
[[Category:Team Fortress Wiki]]
 
[[Category:Team Fortress Wiki discussion]]
 
[[Category:Team Fortress Wiki discussion]]
{{Discussion archives}}
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|{{Discussion archives}}
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== Are we hosting April Fools this year? ==
  
== Protecting class basic tips from tampering ==
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I know that it's 3 months early to be talking about this topic, but is an April Fools event going to be hosted this year? I'd love it if one is; because I've actually already prepared a draft of the patch notes that are open to the public [[User: SkyTBM/april1st2017sandbox|here]]. They're set for Open Review, the summary has said nothing but to edit them and help to expand, and I want this event to happen. [[User:SkyTBM|SkyTBM&#59; inexperienced TF2 Coach, seeking out for the greater good.]] ([[User talk:SkyTBM|talk]]) 16:55, 4 January 2017 (PST)
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: Hi. Keep in mind that a simple update page will not be enough, we would need real content. I have tried to revive this project since 2015 but I failed both times, sadly, last year we managed to get together and gather some interesting ideas, but we did not succeed because of lack of content. Anyway, if you want to see our ideas and the update notes from last year please click [[User:Tark/April|here]] and [[User:Tark/April/Notes|here]]. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 23:18, 5 January 2017 (PST)
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:: Yeah, I know Patch Notes won't be enough. Luckily, I wasn't planning for just patch notes. I have links on the page to content pages (such as weapons and taunts). Not created yet, but that's what I need help with. <span style="font-family:TF2 Build">[[User:SkyTBM|SkyTBM]]</span> added the preceding potato comment. ([[User_Talk:SkyTBM|Talk more about potatoes]] | [[Special:Contributions/SkyTBM|Contribs]]) 17:40, 7 January 2017 (PST)
  
I'm guessing a fair amount of new users make edits to the basic tips on the class pages that have to be undone. Maybe we should make subpages such as <nowiki>[[Class/tips]]</nowiki> that contain the basic tips and protect it with a reason like "Page has official, basic tips that should not be changed in any way". Even just including it as a separate page may turn away wikinoobs. I know [[List of official tips]] has been protected in the past for a similar reason, only really unprotected because those tips actually get updated. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] 19:10, 23 October 2012 (PDT)
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== Sometimes my edit bar has a seizure. ==
:A simpler, and less restrictive (to actual editors--i.e. if it ever gets updated) solution would be to add <nowiki>__NOEDITSECTION__</nowiki> to the section in question; thus it could only be edited from a general page edit. This would defer any casual editor; but can be circumvented by simply editing the entire page. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Tin-1000.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Couvre Corner.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 19:13, 23 October 2012 (PDT)
 
:'''Clarification''': <nowiki>__NOEDITSECTION__</nowiki> will remove all section edit links (i.e. <small>[<span style="color:blue">edit</span>]</small>) on the entire page—I'm still for this idea. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Tin-1000.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Couvre Corner.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 20:00, 23 October 2012 (PDT)
 
::Is it possible to have a page for those tips that are in consideration? This way people could submit tips they have found useful while playing for others to see. Or would that be just too much work? [[User:Lud1colo|Lud1colo]] 18:19, 6 March 2013 (PST)
 
:::A bit of an old discussion. However, I feel you have missed the point of this section. The tips are not supposed to be edited. They are official! We have community strategy pages for user submissions. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Killer's Kabuto.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Digit Divulger.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 18:55, 6 March 2013 (PST)
 
::::Whoops, didn't look. Sorry. [[User:Lud1colo|Lud1colo]] 15:19, 12 March 2013 (PDT)
 
:::::Well,I only edited SOME stuff like degrootkeep trivia,tux,long way more from wiki cap :/ [[User:yunodie|yunodie]] 14:33, 13 March 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== What should we do to [[Template:Promo nav]] ==
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Here's what it looks like https://youtu.be/ZlFXMp1MAAE
  
It's really pain to edit this template and look that where are items in the promo and that promo item is for which slot (Weapons/Hats/Misc). My opinion are :
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Not a common occurrence, but definitely also not rare. [[User:Anyar|Anyar]] ([[User talk:Anyar|talk]]) 10:02, 20 February 2017 (PST)
* Split this template to 3 pages of templates (Weapons Promo nav, Hats Promo nav and Misc Promo nav)
 
* Split this template to 3 categories but still on single template (Cause a lot of size larger and ugh! to editors)
 
* Split this template to 2 pages of templates (Games Promo nav and Events Promo nav)
 
* Do nothing
 
I don't think do nothing is the best way. I think we should do somethings before this template grow larger and harder to edit. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Hinaomi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 07:11, 27 February 2013 (PST)
 
  
== Least edited languages ==
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:From what I have experienced, the "edit bar" automatically adjusts when it can't fit everything in your current browser window.  I have come across this once before if you make the window full screen / reload the page it should go away.  If not, try closing your browser entirely, then open it back up again.  The program isn't perfect.  [[Image:User Twolfe Signature.png|25px]]  ||  [[User:Twolfe|twolfe's page]]  ||  [[User talk:Twolfe|twolfe's talk page]] 10:08, 20 February 2017 (PST)
  
So i got bored today, and i decided to see what languages on the wiki are least edited. So, today is 3rd March, 02:50 PST, and i used 500 changes on 30 days.
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::Oh. I often switch between a 1920x1080 monitor and a 1366x768 one. That must be it. Thanks! [[User:Anyar|Anyar]] ([[User talk:Anyar|talk]]) 11:05, 20 February 2017 (PST)
  
Results: Below, but i decided to post only language edits i managed to count.<br/>
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== Sometimes my wiki layout messes up. ==
7.zh-hans, 53 edits<br/>
 
6.no, 48 edits<br/>
 
5.hu, 45 edits<br/>
 
4.tr, 43 edits<br/>
 
3.pt (not pt-br!),41 edits<br/>
 
2.da, 31 edits<br/>
 
Aand number one is ar, with...16 EDITS!
 
  
As you can see, we need bigger community for the arabian tf2 wiki.<br/>
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Unlike the edit bar seizure, this one has only been happening recently, and doesn't seem to be limited to one monitor resolution.
\[[User:TheGuy299|<span style="color:black">theguy299</span>]]\[[User talk:TheGuy299|<span style="color:black">talk</span>]]\[[Special:Contributions/TheGuy299|<span style="color:black">contribs</span>]]\ 02:50, 3 March 2013
 
:In pt I only saw [[User:Lumpy3]] as active editor, he said it really huge job due low editor in pt. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Hinaomi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 03:46, 3 March 2013 (PST)
 
::A more useful metric is [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress#Statistics|here]], and that would put arabic, hungarian, danish, portuguese, and turkish as the most needed languages. However, this entire discussion is rather moot since translations are on a volunteer, not commission, basis. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Mining Light.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Friends Forever Companion Square Badge.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 05:18, 3 March 2013 (PST)
 
  
== Competitive Section Rework ==
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Usually it looks like this: [https://s27.postimg.org/6wagw4lkj/layout_1.png]
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Rarely, it changes to this, often when I refresh the page, get an error, and refresh again.
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[https://s28.postimg.org/q6ub5uru5/layout_2.png]
  
Hi all, I'm RJ, an aspiring contributor here.
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What is this? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Anyar|Anyar]]''' ([[User talk:Anyar|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contribs]]) </small>
  
I'm suggesting that we revamp the competitive section of this wiki. In its current state, it really only explains the the basics of each format, such as the class restrictions and the basic dynamics, when really there is much more to the competitive scene. For example, it doesn't cover common rollouts for maps, it doesn't cover common callout locations, it doesn't cover good Engineer spots for specific maps, and there are many other things that our current section doesn't cover. Also, it doesn't go into depth how someone interested in the format could get into competitive TF2.
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:The wiki is currently experiencing some internal errors, which is why the formatting breaks. [[File:User_Wiki_Pan_backpack_fryingpan.png|40px|link=]][[User:Wiki Pan|<font color="8650AC"><big>'''WkPn'''</big></font>]] <small>'''('''[[User_talk:Wiki Pan|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Wiki Pan|contribs]]''')'''</small> 05:54, 21 February 2017 (PST)
  
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::Not just me then? Yeah, this happens after the page saying there's internal errors. [[User:Anyar|Anyar]] ([[User talk:Anyar|talk]]) 06:05, 21 February 2017 (PST)
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:::This encounters fairly regularly since Valve is neglecting the tf wiki and its servers. — shots fired by: [[User:Nikno|Nikno]] <small>'''{'''[[User talk:Nikno|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Nikno|Contribs]]'''}'''</small> 06:12, 21 February 2017 (PST)
  
I was discussing with Xenak that I would like to help out revamp the Competitive page on this wiki. I had the idea of listing all current weapon bans for each league, a short history on each game type, and general know-how on each game type. Though this might have already been discussed, I suggested that I add some more in-depth information about each league, division, or game type.
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==Romanian translators anyone?==
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<b>Are there any romanian translators out there that are still active and willing to give me a hand?</b>I mean, I don't know if you guys have noticed, but there seems to be a lack of my kind around these parts... -- [[User:Je love prajitura :D|Je love prajitura :D]] ([[User talk:Je love prajitura :D|talk]]) 09:58, 20 March 2017 (PDT)
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:Hello. A lot of languages are lacking translators. We'd be much obliged if you contribute to the Romanian section or recruit more translators. There's no active Romanian translator despite you currently. — shots fired by: [[User:Nikno|Nikno]] <small>'''{'''[[User talk:Nikno|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Nikno|Contribs]]'''}'''</small> 10:22, 20 March 2017 (PDT)
  
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== Where do people get the class images from? ==
  
I have played in a few seasons of Highlander unofficially in High Gold and Low Platinum divisions, and have played a lot of PUGs and Scrims with some of the best players in the Highlander community--I've come to know them all, and I feel like I have the first hand experience!
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For each cosmetic's article, the gallery contains images for each of the 9 classes, all wearing the cosmetic. Where did they get that image from? Or, how did they make it? ⇒[[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|16px|link=]] [[User:Anyar|<span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: TF2 Build">Anyar</span>]] ([[User_talk:Anyar|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contributions]]/[[User:Anyar/No|giveaway]]) 13:33, 16 April 2017 (PDT)
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:Those images are usually created with HLMV, please see [[Help:Model Viewer]] for more information. [[File:User_Wiki_Pan_backpack_fryingpan.png|40px|link=]][[User:Wiki Pan|<font color="8650AC"><big>'''WkPn'''</big></font>]] <small>'''('''[[User_talk:Wiki Pan|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Wiki Pan|contribs]]''')'''</small> 14:00, 16 April 2017 (PDT)
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::Oh, thanks. I didn't manage to check for your reply, sorry for late response. ⇒[[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|16px|link=]] [[User:Anyar|<span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: TF2 Build">Anyar</span>]] ([[User_talk:Anyar|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contributions]]/[[User:Anyar/No|giveaway]]) 16:16, 21 April 2017 (PDT)
  
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== What is A TF2 Community? ==
  
I was also thinking of hopefully making the Competitive page more of an encyclopedia for all things competitive--from specific map strategies, to dynamics of specific maps as well. I suggested to link to specific video guides or text guides from Reddit and other sources from higher ranked players with their input on a specific idea.
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Hello, I am New to this group And I think i have all my solutions to TF2 Here, But for Now I just wanted to ask What is A TF2 Community How can i join one? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Trump|Trump]]''' ([[User talk:Trump|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Trump|contribs]]) </small>
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:The tf2 community is simply the name of all the fans and the things related to tf2 that aren't ingame. [[User:Padacuw|Padacuw]] ([[User talk:Padacuw|talk]]) 18:29, 20 June 2017 (PDT)
  
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== Should we delete unused user page files from long-gone users? ==
  
With this idea of making the encyclopedia-style pages, I also suggest there be competitive version for the specific maps. On the main Competitive page, there could be a link to something along the lines of "Badlands (Competitive)" -- this page could be an in-depth look at the map itself. Include a bit of history of when the map came into the rotation for each league (Badlands may not work in this case, but maps like cp_process  and cp_steel would be an example), specific callout locations, and specific strategies. If there are maps that are played in both Highlander and 6v6, there could be a specific section for both types--specific offclassing suggestions, which classes work and which do not.
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A rather sizable number of wiki users haven't been on since 2013 at the latest, and have many unused user page files. Should we delete these files?
  
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[[User:Jboby1|Jboby1]] ([[User talk:Jboby1|talk]]) 15:48, 3 September 2017 (PDT)
  
The only concern here about these competitive versions of these maps would be picking which maps are to have their own page. The simple solution to this is to use the maps that leagues find acceptable. No need to vote on which maps get their own page; if ETF2L has koth_lolcano in it's rotation that season, and teams have strategies for it, then it will get it's own page!
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:What if they come back?
  
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:I'm fine with deleting talk pages for users who are inactive and don't have a user page, or just the user page of anyone who has been inactive for years and only has a few edits (that were all made within the same timespan).
  
If you think that the Competitive page needs a revamp or reformat, feel free to talk about it here!
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:In other words I'm mostly against user pages that took a lot of effort to make, because it'd be discouraging to come back and find that gone. Thoughts? ⇒[[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|16px|link=]] [[User:Anyar|<span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: TF2 Build">Anyar</span>]] ([[User_talk:Anyar|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contributions]]/[[User:Anyar/No|giveaway]]) 17:01, 3 September 2017 (PDT)
  
[[User:RJ|RJ]] 21:02, 6 March 2013 (PST)
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: {{c|oppose}} [[w:Sometimes They Come Back (film)|Sometimes They Come Back]] ... (How come I didn't get one of those "He has risen!" do-hickies, TidB? (oh, riiiiight) ;) ... Really, it doesn't hurt anything to leave it all up, there is no valuable benefit to deleting, and it takes labor to decide if the page really should be saved or not, so on the whole, no I see not justification to delete. There is the tradition and policy that no one edits someone else's user space as long as it is conforming to the wiki's policy, and there was no Delete if Inactive Policy at the time of posting. Moreover, Anyar, the one thing that should never be deleted is Talk space, as it is the most formal record of collaboration, and IMO, the oldest records of collaboration are the more valuable, more so if the participants are now inactive. Yes, I know there is a lot of junk images, but that is a matter of opinion, and a lot of just simply unused images, but in the latter only the OP (or admin with cause) should delete it, and under the license, I'm not event sure that is proper. [[User:Mikado282|Mikado282]] ([[User talk:Mikado282|talk]]) 19:27, 3 September 2017 (PDT)
:[[Badlands (competitive)]], etc. If you plan on doing a revamp, look at pages such as [[Soldier (competitive)]]. Map pages are fair game, but large-scale revamps are going to need community agreement. Try to find a large enough (multiple teams) player basis to reach what looks like a naming convention consensus. Also, {{tl|Weapon Ban List}}. [[Competitive play|Start looking here.]] [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Killer's Kabuto.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Digit Divulger.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 21:07, 6 March 2013 (PST)
 
::{{c|Support}} I agree that the competitive section needs a rework. It really only offers the bare bones of competitive TF2, with little to no mention towards how to get started in competitive, or specific class strategies for specific maps. Improving these areas can possibly help introduce other people to the competitive scene who normally wouldn't bother, as it would provide a defined way to get involved in comp. Many people I've talked to are interested in it but have no idea where to even start, and maybe this new and improved section can serve as both a gateway for them and an vault of knowledge for any questions they might have. As it is right now, it just seems unfinished and unrefined, and hopefully we can change that. Just my 1/50th of a dollar. — [[User:Xenak|<span style="text-shadow:lime 0px 0px 3px;color:#AA1DC6;font-size:130%;font-weight:bold;">Xenak</span>]] <span style="font-size:80%;font-weight:bold;">([[User_talk:Xenak|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Xenak|Contribs]])</span> 21:22, 6 March 2013 (PST)
 
  
:::: Thanks for the ideas, you two! I'll see if I can get to work on gathering some consistent information from teams of various leagues and divisions. Maybe I could add a specific note on if specific places are called differently in different leagues? (An example would be that the Flank on Second near Gray Bridge on Badlands is called "Finland" in Europe) [[User:RJ|RJ]] 21:32, 6 March 2013 (PST)
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::I meant the talk pages with the only content being the autowiki bot's welcome message. Don't the pages take up space or something? [[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|16px|link=]] [[User:Anyar|<span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: TF2 Build">Anyar</span>]] ([[User_talk:Anyar|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contributions]]/[[User:Anyar/No|giveaway]]) 12:23, 4 September 2017 (PDT)
:::::Honestly, that'd be one of my later priorities. At this point, I feel that the three of us (hopefully more) should decide what area we should work on (maps, classes, matchups, e.g.) and work on cleanup. Maps is a pretty easy way to go, (which is not bad) but does take a lot of consistent names. One thing to do before you dive in would be to take a page (the [[Badlands (competitive)|badlands]] page e.g.) and devise a nicely-reading page layout. The current one feels droll to me, and besides you'd need to work in the class strategy. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Killer's Kabuto.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Digit Divulger.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 03:59, 7 March 2013 (PST)
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:::This wiki runs on a toaster with lots of space. The deletions could theoretically be worse than having those pages. — shots fired by: [[User:Nikno|Nikno]] <small>'''{'''[[User talk:Nikno|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Nikno|Contribs]]'''}'''</small> 08:05, 5 September 2017 (PDT)
  
== Classes as Characters Section/Article ==
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I think you all are misunderstanding my question. I'm asking if we should delete the files that were uploaded by a long-gone user for their userpage, but were never used, or are no longer used. Im not saying we should delete entire userpages.
  
Hiya I'm Krubby. I noticed that nowhere on the wiki is there an in-depth description of the classes about them as characters. I was thinking there should be a section on each of their pages or a combined article for all describing their personality, interests, etc. Thanks! [[User:Krubby|Krubby]] 09:50, 7 March 2013 (PST)
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[[User:Jboby1|Jboby1]] ([[User talk:Jboby1|talk]]) 20:31, 3 September 2017 (PDT)
:Hi there. I do agree that, for a game that is full of personality, some of the class articles are lacking with respect to describing the class's character. I don't think a whole section or new article is necessary, but rather a few more sentences about their personalities would be nice. '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:83%;">—[[File:User Moussekateer signature sprite.png|31px|link=User:Moussekateer]][[User:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black">Moussekateer</span>]]·[[User talk:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]]</span>''' 10:46, 7 March 2013 (PST)
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:Those unused user files don't hurt as long as they're named correctly. If you want you can of course flag them for deletion if they're unused, but I wouldn't suggest to waste time on it. — shots fired by: [[User:Nikno|Nikno]] <small>'''{'''[[User talk:Nikno|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Nikno|Contribs]]'''}'''</small> 01:05, 4 September 2017 (PDT)
  
== Unpaintable hats in the Paintable hats table. ==
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== Team Fortress discord server ==
  
So I've been adding hats to the Paintable hats table as they come out. I've noticed that there are hats and miscs that are on the table that are unpaintable. So some input is needed. Should we include unpaintable hats on the table or not? Considering there are some already on them. Should we leave them or remove them? [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] 12:08, 14 March 2013 (PDT)
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I am currently in the process of making  a tf wiki discord server that wiki contributors can talk and discuss things similar to the irc. i am asking for ideas that can be used for the discord server.  any ideas that are part of the final server will be listed in a special chat along with the person who came up with said idea. i am also looking someone who could make a logo for the discord server. i am not sure when i will release it but when i do (thats if i ever do) i will announce it in a new discussion along with a link to join it. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Neon man909|Neon man909]]''' ([[User talk:Neon man909|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Neon man909|contribs]]) </small>
: Just forgot. [[Template:Paintable items list/All class items]]
 
: I think we mustn't include a unpaintable hats table. I think we must delete unpaintable hats from the list.--[[User:MarkEngineer|MarcoDoctorwho]] 10:24, 17 March 2013 (PDT)
 
::I'll split it as soon as I'm done with Update history... [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 12:25, 17 March 2013 (PDT)
 
:{{c|Agree}} I don't see a need to keep all unpaintable hats in those lists -- so go ahead. – [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic Eric</b></span>]] <small> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</small> 12:34, 17 March 2013 (PDT)
 
::{{c|Done}} Moved all unpaintable to [[Template:Unpaintable items list‎]], took me 8 hours for only this template... [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 03:06, 18 March 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== About the "Marketable" in {{tl|Item infobox‎}} ==
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:I'm not sure if that's needed. Personally I like Discord better, but when I proposed the idea of moving from IRC to Discord I got completely shot down. Apparently the differences are that Discord has a cleaner and fancier UI, but IRC has better customization and all that.
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:FYI you made the same topic twice so I deleted the second one. ⇒[[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|16px|link=]] [[User:Anyar|<span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: TF2 Build">Anyar</span>]] ([[User_talk:Anyar|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contributions]]/[[User:Anyar/No|giveaway]]) 07:07, 8 October 2017 (PDT)
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: It would probably support your argumentation to present a pro/contra list, since staff doesn't see much pro's in Discord over IRC. — shots fired by: [[User:Nikno|Nikno]] <small>'''{'''[[User talk:Nikno|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Nikno|Contribs]]'''}'''</small> 22:48, 8 October 2017 (PDT)
  
Hello, recently I have noticed that there's a "Marketable" info in infobox, which can identify the items can be sold or not. However, I think there's many problems with that.<br>The default setting of the info is "No" , but many genuine items can be sold onto the Market, and the label would still be "No" if no one put another setting inside the individual page. When the promo is over, the items become unique quality and thus cannot be sold. The editors need to do another edit to removed it. Plus, there's many tool items which is labeled "cannot be sold" at this moment. I personally think it is a huge work for every language to label or remove "market = yes" setting manually.<br>Due to the wrong info sometimes cause, I think either we removed the Market part in the infobox, or the codes inside the infobox should be modified. If we decided to removed it, then the [[Steam Community Market]] page can do the record job. I think the information there is already sufficient by displaying the rules of Market and record the items which can be sold with a template. In sum, I don't think the Marketable label is necessary in infobox. Please let me know what's your opinion on this or what shall we do with the template. Thanks.<br>[[File:User ~www~ Avatar cont clear.jpg|100px|link=User:~www~|~www~]] 07:42, 14 March 2013 (PDT)
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== Multi-Class images ==
:I agree, I don't think that attribute is necessary. Mostly because I believe Valve intend to allow all items to be sold in the Steam Market in the near future, making this information nearly redundant. The Steam Community Market page should suffice for now until Valves plans are clearer. '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:83%;">—[[File:User Moussekateer signature sprite.png|31px|link=User:Moussekateer]][[User:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black">Moussekateer</span>]]·[[User talk:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]]</span>''' 18:37, 14 March 2013 (PDT)
 
:Alright, let's kill dis — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 18:46, 14 March 2013 (PDT)
 
::So...we can removed that area now? Or shall we wait for more comments about this? [[File:User ~www~ Avatar cont clear.jpg|100px|link=User:~www~|~www~]] 00:58, 15 March 2013 (PDT)
 
:::Well, let's vote!
 
:::: {{c|Agree}} Remove it is better, maybe Valve will open to marketable all items soon. [[File:User Hinaomi Hinaomi-sig.png|link=User:Hinaomi]] [[User:Hinaomi|Rikka Takanashi]] <small>([[User talk:Hinaomi|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Hinaomi|contributions]])</small> 02:38, 15 March 2013 (PDT)
 
::::: [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template%3AItem_infobox&action=historysubmit&diff=1314976&oldid=1314273 Don't be overly bureaucratic when you already know the majority supports it.] -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 04:30, 15 March 2013 (PDT)
 
::::: ded. is good — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 12:22, 15 March 2013 (PDT)
 
::::: {{c|Agree}} so much, is like a paradox. Example: A Genuine Ham Shank is not tradable yet, but the wiki says is Marketable. Is like a paradox --[[User:MarkEngineer|MarcoDoctorwho]] 08:34, 17 March 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== [[Jumping#Sticky_jumps]] ==
+
I've been thinking about multi-class images. I feel like we should just have one class in the infobox, like the all-class images.
[[Stickybomb Launcher]] and [[Sticky Jumper]] link to that section but it does not exist. I suggest changing the link to [[Jumping#Basic_sticky_jump]]. [[User:Teyandee|Teyandee]] 12:25, 23 March 2013 (PDT)
 
:I went ahead and did it. For future reference, you don't need to ask permission to make a change like that - when it's small, and there's clearly a bug, go ahead and fix it. — [[User:Armisael |'''Armisael''']] <small>([[User_talk:Armisael |T]] · [[Special:Contributions/Armisael |C]])</small> 12:30, 23 March 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== Painted images. Specified guidelines/rules? ==
+
Having 2-4 classes all standing next to each other looks kind of messy and squashes the image too much.
  
I'm bringing this up mainly because, Due to some confusion in the IRC. What would we think would be the "average" resolution for painted hats/miscs. Also any other guidelines that could possibly fit in. (unless it differs per hat)
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For example, the [[Deadliest Duckling]] just has one class. If we had just one class, I feel as if it would be neater and more consistent with everything else [[File:User Bojjob Userlink.png|link=User:Bojjob]] 02:36, 14 October 2017 (PDT)
If there should be a set or at least a minimum resolution why have we not came up with one? [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] 13:32, 23 March 2013 (PDT)
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: {{c|Support}} Sounds good. [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 06:32, 15 October 2017 (PDT)
:TheDoctor suggested it be at least 500 pixels. But, most of the images are under that suggestion. We would have to revamp many of the painted images. --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 14:01, 23 March 2013 (PDT)
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:: [[File:Socked and Loaded.png|thumb|120px]]{{c|Neutral}} Multi-class images (e.g. the one to the right) look alright to me, but so does the one for Deadliest Duckling. Your call. [[File:Leaderboard class spy.png|16px|link=]] [[User:Anyar|<span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: TF2 Build">Anyar</span>]] ([[User_talk:Anyar|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Anyar|contributions]]/[[User:Anyar/No|giveaway]]) 07:01, 15 October 2017 (PDT)
::Perhaps specific resolutions based on size of hats and miscs. Ex. Small 500px Large: 600x (These are examples do not actually use them) [[User:Ashes|Ashes]] 14:02, 23 March 2013 (PDT)
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::: {{c|Support}} I like the idea. However, I think the limit should be at least two classes. [[File:User_Wiki_Pan_backpack_fryingpan.png|35px|link=]][[User:Wiki Pan|<font color="8650AC"><big>'''WkPn'''</big></font>]] <small>'''('''[[User_talk:Wiki Pan|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Wiki Pan|contribs]]''')'''</small> 07:55, 17 October 2017 (PDT)
::: Off topic but along the same lines: many images have a visible [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/archive/0/04/20130301032525%21RED_Vox_Diabolus.png fire overlay]. This might not be visible in the small (thumbnail) images, but on the actual file page they are somewhat of a nuisance. [[User:Eels|Eels]] 14:07, 23 March 2013 (PDT)
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: {{Comment}} How about a slow transition between single-class images. MediaWiki has an [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:JavascriptSlideshow extension that does exactly this]. [[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 14:36, 26 October 2017 (PDT)
::::The tale about the problems with resolutions and pictures: There was once a ballon item which isnt vertically much but horizontal a lot. There is a horizontal big hat but not much veritcally. ; (fairy tale ends) ; In the end i only suggested one restriction for this case: 500px . this can result in 100x500 or 500x100 or 500x500. All this depends on the hat. But to get at least a decent seeable quality i suggested 500px. I hope i didnt started something terrible. [[User:TheDoctor|δ³Σx²]] > [[User:TheDoctor#-/+ Wiki-Skills|Add + or - skills for me]] 14:09, 23 March 2013 (PDT)
 
:::::I think all of this is moot, just because the templates only need 150px images. --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 16:16, 25 March 2013 (PDT)
 
::::::When we decide on this, we can stop the link to the image itself. Because it doesnt get bigger. Which itself makes only thumbnails without a normal (hq) version pretty useless if you want to see it sharply. But the staff members havent said anything about this yet, so we wait for some official thoughts, maybe? [[User:TheDoctor|δ³Σx²]] > [[User:TheDoctor#-/+ Wiki-Skills|Add + or - skills for me]] 05:33, 26 March 2013 (PDT)
 
:There isn't any need for a specific minimum resolution as long as the final image looks good when viewed on its file page. If your monitor is set to at least 1280x1024 your images should be fine for the most part but again this depends on the type of image being taken. The problem with these images is not necessarily the final image resolution but things like transparency, rotation, aliasing, and texture resolution. Compare the most recent version of [[:File:Painted_Mann_Co._Cap_28394D.png|this file]] to the initial version, for instance. There are docs available, so if you're having a specific problem just ask. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 06:08, 26 March 2013 (PDT)
 
::I don't understand something about the image. Is it supposed to be an improvement, or a downgrade? --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 11:06, 26 March 2013 (PDT)
 
:::The recent version at that time had aliasing issues, sorry for not mentioning that. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 05:38, 22 May 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== Navs ==
+
== Voice actor link proposal ==
  
What should be done with multi-class items like [[Crafty Hair]]? Should they have the nav of every class that can wear the item, or just the general Hat nav? 5 navs plus the promo nav plus the hat nav just seems a tad exaggerated. [[User:Eels|Eels]] 14:05, 24 March 2013 (PDT)
+
If a voice actor has a Wikipedia page, link to that (with <nowiki>[[wikipedia:<NAME>|<NAME>]]</nowiki>) instead of IMDB. This would affect all articles about characters with voice actors as well as [[Voice actors]][[User:Brightgalrs|Brightgalrs]] ([[User talk:Brightgalrs|talk]]) 14:43, 26 October 2017 (PDT)
:The alternative is to add a "multi-class nav" which would result in things like the crafty hair being linked to on all the classes' pages, since each would need to transclude that template--each needs to reference their classes' items. This option allows each class to reference only and all of their own items. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Tavish DeGroot Experience.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Essential Accessories.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 14:09, 26 April 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== [[Disguise]] and [[Disguise Kit]] ==
+
== Skins and Stranges ==
  
I feel these should be merged onto Disguise Kit. No other class can disguise, and it's not exactly where one would expect to see the information in the first place. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Tavish DeGroot Experience.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Essential Accessories.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 14:20, 26 April 2013 (PDT)
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Valve's addition to weapon retextures to Team Fortress 2 did seemingly spark some controversy at first, with TF:GO spreading rapidly, and it has been mostly accepted by the community. But did Valve really incorporate this in a way that will benefit their users? I'm not whining about the need to buy keys to open reward crates received through contracts after getting a pass for them, but I do want to address the topic of strange items, stat-clocks and strangifiers and how they 'interact' with war paints and skinned items. To get the topic out of the way, the addition of the civilian grade clock to add strange qualities to your 'common' skins was a nice idea, sure, let's add some value and desire to the lower end of the skin spectrum, but not adding them for the other 'not crate' grades is quite strange. In my opinion, this lack additions decreases value from all other grades of skins, aside from ones which can aquire strange status through key requiring crates. For example, why should I buy or try to obtain a war paint for my scattergun to change its visual appearance if I cannot put it on my strange variant? It seems like a waste, especially considering people will be purchasing war paints to put on their favourite weapons which are likely in strange quality, and few people are going to want to turn down their Hales Own rocket launcher for a default rocket launcher with a changed texture. I believe, to fix this, war paints should either be usable with strange weapons, or, stat clocks should be added for freelance and mercenary grades alongside the civilian grade, to make these variants of weapons more appealing to the community (heads up Valve, this means community market purchases! Yay!).
:{{c|Oppose}} One is about the item, the other is about the mechanic and all its gameplay implication. The former needs to exist, and the latter won't fit in the context of the former, because it goes in details like gameplay changes and hitboxes when disguised. These don't really belong on an item page. I think however that both articles merit a disambiguation link at the top linking to the other — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 14:25, 26 April 2013 (PDT)
 
::+1 for the disambiguation link. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 05:38, 22 May 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== Deleting the AA, AB, AC… disambiguation pages. ==
+
Who knows, maybe it's just me. But I'm sure that it would be a great addition to the game, considering the past few major updates have included new items which would benefit greatly from said change. Who knows, another somewhat minor update with some additions may also breathe some more life back into the trading community.
  
This seems to be a change that has already been decided on, but I'd like to see what the consensus is. The arguments I've heard so far are:
+
Thanks for reading my post. Opinions and feedback would be warmly welcomed, preferably without a side of salt or death threats. Thanks,
<br />{{Pro}}Pro:
+
[[User:EJB9|EJB9]] ([[User talk:EJB9|talk]]) 08:38, 11 November 2017 (PST)
* Pages allow users to look up items more quickly, akin to an index
 
<br />{{Con}}Con:
 
* Pages are not necessary, "The wiki is not a rolodex"
 
[[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Stately Steel Toe.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Bronze Dueling Badge.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 12:21, 30 April 2013 (PDT)
 
:It's not really something up for discussion. These pages really shouldn't have existed in the first place, because if you already know what you're looking for, you can go directly to the thing in question. The only purpose these pages serve is for useless trivia about how many different things the same abbreviation stands for. As I pointed out in IRC, such pages serve no purpose in languages outside of English, which complicates translation efforts considerably. On top of which, every time a new item, map, etc. comes out, it doubles the workload required to propagate the changes made, when the focus of the Wiki should be on documenting meaningful content (such as what the actual item does). --[[Image:User LordKelvin Signature.png|link=User talk:LordKelvin|80px]] [[User:LordKelvin|<span style="text-shadow:#0031CF 0px 0px 3px;"><font color="#000087"><big>'''LordKelvin'''</big></font>]]</span> 12:32, 30 April 2013 (PDT)
 
  
:The abbreviation ''redirects'' make it a lot faster to navigate (typing <code>wiki.tf/FJ</code> is a lot faster than <code>wiki.tf/Frontier_Justice</code>), even if you know what you're looking for. I think they should be kept.
+
== Difficulty logging in ==
:The abbreviation ''disambiguations pages'' don't make it faster to navigate, as generally the extra load time isn't worth the keystroke savings. It also doesn't make sense to translate them in the usual way. However, they are useful to newbies not knowing what some weapon abbreviation they've seen on a forum or chat log or whatever. This is a problem that exists, and which the wiki is probably the least-bad place to solve. However, perhaps disambiguation pages aren't the ideal solution to it. Instead, perhaps a single page such as [[Abbreviations]] would be in order. Translating such a page would make a little more sense as well, as the translated version of this page would contain abbreviations of the weapons in the other language (which, interestingly, would make it one of the few wiki pages to have its translated versions not directly follow the english version) — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 15:03, 30 April 2013 (PDT)
 
:Another option is to add those abbreviations/most important ones into [[Glossary]] page. This will, however, raise a question of "what is considered as important abbreviation" and "should Glossary page be translated 'normally' from English page, or language-specifically, e.g. include language's own abbreviations, terms, etc, and not straight copy-paste-translate from English version". -[[User:Asplode|Asplode]] 15:14, 30 April 2013 (PDT)
 
::Coincidentally, this is exactly what Wiki editors should be doing by default when maintaining a page. These abbreviations and acronyms will fit just fine inside [[Glossary]], instead of being spread out on what eventually amounted to a separate Wiki of its own in the form of a Rolodex. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 05:38, 22 May 2013 (PDT)
 
  
:Here's the [http://pastie.org/7801200 list of deleted abbreviations], for reference — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 12:23, 4 May 2013 (PDT)
+
So far, I have only been able to log in on mobile after much refreshing. I have been unable to log in on desktop and pages take a while to load.
  
== Naming consistency. ==
+
Every attempt to log in results in an error message, “Team Fortress Wiki uses cookies to log in users. You have cookies disabled. Please enable them and try again.”
  
I notice a difference between [[Sawmill (Capture the Flag)]] and [[Community Sawmill (CTF) Strategy]]. Should the latter be changed to read [[Community Sawmill (Capture the Flag) Strategy]]?
+
In addition, average number of edits per day seem to have gone down dramatically over the past three days.
<br>Note: This effects Capture the Flag (CTF), King of the Hill (KOTH), and Control Point (CP). [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Stately Steel Toe.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Bronze Dueling Badge.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 16:01, 1 May 2013 (PDT)
 
:Nope. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 16:11, 1 May 2013 (PDT)
 
::Any particular reason? [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Stately Steel Toe.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Bronze Dueling Badge.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 18:17, 1 May 2013 (PDT)
 
:::Not before you state why you want to move these pages first, no. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 06:10, 3 May 2013 (PDT)
 
::::One set is named incorrectly. This means that when listed in categories (Such as [[:Category:Maps]]) they appear out-of-order. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Janissary Ketche.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Tomb Wrapper.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 07:15, 6 May 2013 (PDT)
 
:I'd say go ahead. It keeps things less confusing. [[File:Demoman_emblem_RED_beta2.png|30px|link=User:DemoMedic]][[File:Medic_emblem_BLU.png|30px|link=User:DemoMedic]]<sub>&nbsp;[[User_talk:DemoMedic|"Thanks, Doc!"]]</sub> 11:22, 11 May 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== Robo Keys And Items Ideas ==
+
[[File:User_Upgrade_Signature.png|link=User:Upgrade]] 17:14, 20 November 2017 (PST)
  
Hi We Are All Wondering What Items And Key Designs That Are For The Robo-Crate.
+
: We have experienced this on and off again the last couple years. The senior editors seem to understand it a bit better <u>than I</u>.
  
I though Of This Idea
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: Preview seems greatly slowed this time.
  
is that they'll be releasing a new MvM mission, which when completed in Mann up mode will reward you with a robo-key. This key will open the robo-crate, which will contain any one of the newly released Mk. II stranges, or unusual robo-hats.
+
: Yes, I have used mobile editing as a workaround to the log on issue. On the desktop, when repeating the login attempts does not get around the false cookie issue, opening the wiki in another window sometimes shows that I am logged in even though the first window is telling me to try again.
  
In The Crates You Would Think Of Nuts N Bults As the Effect
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: A couple months back, when this was really bad, ICS noticed it and told me that they would talk with somebody at Valve, and overnight, things greatly improved (coincidence?) in time for a few weeks of pre-Halloween editing.
  
but I think differently. Maybe Its Some Sort Of Poison oribiting the hat
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: Now that the Jungle Infrerno Update is dying down .... [[User:Mikado282|Mikado282]] ([[User talk:Mikado282|talk]]) 05:15, 21 November 2017 (PST) 11:09, 21 November 2017 (PST)
  
You Can Email Me If u Have any Other Ideas
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:: The tip I forgot: Using the "keep me logged in" option avoids the log in problem, once you get in. Just take pains to not forget you password through the resulting non-use. [[User:Mikado282|Mikado282]] ([[User talk:Mikado282|talk]]) 11:09, 21 November 2017 (PST)
  
But I Didn't Mention the Key
+
== Teamfortresswiki discord server ==
  
I Think It Would Be Like a Metal Key All Siver But With Nuts in it  
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Hi, for the past 3-4 months on and off i have been working on a tfwiki discord server, atm it is prety basic, but i would like some people to join and maybye give feedback, help out and just is genral be helpful.  Even though it is not necessary to make such server, i have been bored and its been a fun journey so far
  
Email Me If u have some ideas :)
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https://discord.gg/DZmKRNN
  
<small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Y0L0 McSwag :D|Y0L0 McSwag :D]]''' ([[User talk:Y0L0 McSwag :D|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Y0L0 McSwag :D|contribs]]) </small>
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[[User:Neon man909|Neon man909]] ([[User talk:Neon man909|talk]]) 05:31, 14 January 2018 (PST)
  
:Speculation goes to [http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80 SPUF], thanks. -[[User:Asplode|Asplode]] 11:00, 14 May 2013 (PDT)
+
Hi there,
== I hate to be a killjoy but… ==
 
I was trying to clean up [[:Category:Templates]], which could be used to create a more comprehensive list of templates in use on the wiki. In cleaning it up, I encountered quite a bit of randomness... including a few user templates (Which shouldn't ideally be in the category) and a few horridly outdated and/or humorous (perish the thought) templates. The question I'd like to ask is: <br />
 
Should this category be cleaned out and re-purposed (including the deletion, re-purposing, or re-categorization of the random templates) or should it remain the way it is, in a general state of disrepair? [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Larrikin Robin.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Flight of the Monarch.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 11:35, 18 May 2013 (PDT)
 
: I don't see anything wrong with the templates. --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 13:08, 20 May 2013 (PDT)
 
::Some are merely unused, others are simply out-of-use, and there is the thought that things should be cleaned up. [[User:Darkid|<span style="color:red">Darkid</span>]] ([[Image:Item icon Modest Pile of Hat.png|21px|link=User_talk:Darkid|alt=talk]]|[[Image:Item icon Mecha-Medes.png|21px|link=Special:Contributions/Darkid|alt=contribs]]) 13:20, 20 May 2013 (PDT)
 
:::Being unused or out of use does not qualify a template for being removed from a category. That category exists both as a root for the sub-categories and for templates which don't fit the sub-categories; please use your own judgement to recategorise anything you feel is out of place (or leave it as it is if a template is fine where it is). The user templates should have their categorisations commented-out in their source. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 05:38, 22 May 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== Add in robot responses and voice lines? ==
+
It appears that you have created this kind of topic before, which has already been discussed; see [[TFW:Discussion#Team Fortress discord server]]. I'd also recommend you to take down said server, as it would be considered unofficial. Thanks. [[File:User_Wiki_Pan_backpack_fryingpan.png|30px|link=#]][[User:Wiki Pan|<font color="8650AC"><i>'''WkPn'''</i></font>]] <small>'''('''[[User_talk:Wiki Pan|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/Wiki Pan|contribs]]''')'''</small> 06:02, 14 January 2018 (PST)
  
I have noticed that there is no real directory for all of the MvM robot responses and voice lines, While it is true that these are just modified versions of the default player voices, they all have their own separate sound files in the .VPK sound directory. I believe that in the interest of full information, we should add in these sound files to a separate page like the player responses do. --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 09:08, 20 May 2013 (PDT)
+
== How to make articles ==
: I noticed the same thing and I'd love to upload them for you but I don't understand the new VPK system. If you could explain it to me I'd gladly do it for you. [[User:Eels|<span style="color:#ff7722;font-size:10px';"><b>Eels</b></span>]] 09:14, 20 May 2013 (PDT)
 
:: Thanks for the help. All of my trouble is in designing and making a new page, however. I'll make a cheat sheet for the VPK system. --[[User:Enthers|Samuel]] [[User:Enthers|Enthers]] 11:23, 20 May 2013 (PDT)
 
:::The Wiki is not a mirror for all game content. It is sufficient to simply state that the lines are altered versions of the originals, with perhaps an example or two, rather than mirror the existing response pages. [[User:I-ghost|i-ghost]] 05:38, 22 May 2013 (PDT)
 
  
== Separating major updates from content packs ==
+
I just joined the wiki, and I would like to know how to submit an article for the mod Lambda Fortress. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Youporkchop5|Youporkchop5]]''' ([[User talk:Youporkchop5|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Youporkchop5|contribs]]) </small>
  
The [[Template:Major updates nav|major updates nav]] lists both [[Patches#MU|major updates]] (which copies http://www.tf2.com/history.php) and [[Patches#Content_packs|content packs]] together, unlike any other place on the wiki (or any valve site), as far as I'm aware. Is there a reason for this, other than to bloat the 2011 category? If not, can we split that nav in two, one for major updates and one for content packs? <br>I've taken the liberty of drawing up a split [[User:Armisael/Update_navs|here]]. — [[User:Armisael |'''Armisael''']] <small>([[User_talk:Armisael |T]] · [[Special:Contributions/Armisael |C]])</small> 07:30, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
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:Hello Porkchop :) I'd advice you to read about article creation either [[Help:Editing|here]] or [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=974408397 here]. Have fun. PS: Don't forget to sign off your comments with 4 tildes. [[User:Faghetti V.2|Faghetti V.2]] ([[User talk:Faghetti V.2|talk]]) 00:49, 22 January 2018 (PST)
: Yea, our major updates should match Valve's definition. [[User:Balladofwindfishes|Balladofwindfishes]] 00:33, 24 May 2013 (PDT)
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 +
== How do you change the title of an infobox? ==
 +
Hi, I am trying to translate the smissmas cosmetic articels into german but I dont know how to change the title of the infobox and were do you get the inventory pictures?
 +
When you take a picture of a cosmetic you didnt make can you still upload a picture of it? [[User:Timmy the mini|Timmy the mini]] ([[User talk:Timmy the mini|talk]]) 16:26, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 +
# I would connect with the [[Help:Language translation|Translation Community]] (I'm not there; I only [[:Template:User Heavy correcting|translate English]]), but I think the autotranslation of the title in the infobox is sort of template-controlled.
 +
# Inventory Pictures? not me. Usually I find that someone already has uploaded it, especially by the time you are translating.
 +
# What you can upload: [[Help:Images]] Certainly anything under some sort of Valve license -- anything you see in the game. Are you worried about something you found on someone's Workshop page?
 +
# Oh! Wait! Here! [[Help:Cosmetic Images]].
 +
:[[User:Mikado282|Mikado282]] ([[User talk:Mikado282|talk]]) 00:58, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Adapting Wikipedia Visual Editor ==
 +
 
 +
Is there a way to make it so we can edit using the Wikipedia Visual Editor? That would be a great way to edit easier. [[File:User_BrofessorBeta_SignaturePic.jpg|30px|link=User talk:BrofessorBeta]][[User:BrofessorBeta|<font color="328C9E"><big>'''BrofessorBeta'''</big></font>]] <small>'''('''[[User_talk:BrofessorBeta|Talk]]''' | '''[[Special:Contributions/BrofessorBeta|contribs]]''')'''</small> 16:56, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Error in the Wiki ==
 +
 
 +
For some reason, there is a floating "more" just below the arrow next to "view history", is this supposed to be there?
 +
 
 +
== Portal Wiki Down? ==
 +
 
 +
For the last week, I've tried to acess the Portal wiki using the VWN link at the bottom of the main page. It appears to be down. Has this been happening for a while, or is it a new problem? Or, worse case scenario, is it not just down, but entirely defunct? [[User:Jboby1|Jboby1]] ([[User talk:Jboby1|talk]]) 05:57, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
 +
: Regarding this, I can confirm that thePortalWiki is still down. Someone please fix. I know I'm not active at all on the TF2Wiki anymore but I'm a moderator over there and want to keep working on things. [[User:Sven|~Sven~]] ([[User talk:Sven|talk]]) 22:23, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects ==
 +
 
 +
I have started a list [[User:Mikado282/List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects|List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects]]. This is in part for my own interests, but also as an orientation for new editors. The intention is to make this [[Team Fortress Wiki:List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects]]. I would appreciated comment. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|talk]]) ([[User:Mikado282/To Do|To Do]]) 23:09, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== TF2's Halloween Paintings ==
 +
 
 +
First post here, but anyone know how to get the Halloween paintings images? Or do we already have them archived here or something? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1544349505 is the type of stuff I'm talking about. I've been looking for this image for ages, but just now figured out where I remember it from (in-game obv). Is it possible to get the picture? Or maybe upload start a wiki page about the paintings Valve made for Halloween?
 +
:If you mean the actual file used for the painting, you could extract its texture from {{code|tf2_textures_dir.vpk}} [[File:Killicon_baleful_beacon.png|45px]]<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS, cursive, sans-serif; color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  08:04, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 +
::[[:File:Portrait 1 skin 1.png|Here you go]]. I believe this was a texture extract, but I can look it for you later. Enjoy. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:12, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::: As far as an archive goes, there is no Category AFAIK for textures as such.  I wish there was a Category for all textures organized by source (sounds like a ''Project'' to me), but as it is, the many images that have been uploaded are scattered in many different categories under [[:Category:Images]]. Were you only interested in the that one portrait?  Other paintings uploaded from from Mann Manor are in [[:Category:Mann Manor images]]. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small>  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|talk]]) ([[User:Mikado282/To Do|To Do]]) 14:26, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Trivia related to original workshop description/names, as well "SFM Promo Images". ==
 +
 
 +
Hi, I've noticed an abundance of information regarding the original workshop submission since 2014 throughout today. For quite some time, information regarding the original workshop content weren't exactly valid trivia (save for a few, usually related to styles not included). However, I feel like most of these trivia related to the original desc/name should not be in here. I will separate them in each category, as well giving my view on each of them (if I support it, or not):
 +
 
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Addition to Steam Workshop Thumbnails on the class gallery}}
 +
** {{c|+|This has been a standard for quite some time now. It makes easier to extinguish Valve-made content from Community-made content just by scrolling to the gallery. I agree in keeping it.}}
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Addition to images featuring the Item Set ("SFM Promo") from Item Sets that were accepted officially (found on [[Item Sets]] only, does not count items that has the same theme, but doesn't have official item sets)}}
 +
** {{c|+|I agree on the addition only for actually fully-accepted item sets. The image can be from the SFM promo artwork (usually found on a Item Set collection from the Workshop), and the image should only be included on the related Item Set page, and should not be added to each individual item page}}.
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Addition to images featuring the Item Set ("SFM Promo") from items that share similar looks / items that originated from a collection, but were not added as a full Item Set by Valve}}
 +
** {{c|-|This one I vote for no, there are a ton of cosmetic items that were made to go with Item Sets, that simply got their items added separately, or got only few of the items accepted. Right now, the Wiki has some cosmetic pages with these images, while a lot of other does not have. It's very inconsistent right now, and I feel like these aren't really needed, one can just visit the Workshop submission to see those}}
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Addition to "SFM Promo Art" for any cosmetic item, not related to item sets or unofficial item sets}}
 +
** {{c|-|Disagree. Again, this is really inconsistent across the Wiki, majority of the cosmetic pages does not have SFM Promo Item related to the cosmetic, while some, do. An example of one that has is the [[Vampire Vanquisher]]}}
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Trivia/Notes information regarding "This X Item was submitted along Y, Z items".}}
 +
** {{c|-|Disagree. In the past, something similar was made regarding to this, there were a lot of Trivia based on original item sets from the workshop, but all of those were moved to Notes instead. It seems now that there's a whole batch of trivia information about the same thing, mostly because new users added to the Trivia, and not to a new Notes section. I vote for neither keeping on the Trivia, or the Notes page, considering the dense amount of cosmetics we now have on TF2, it would be just too much to edit or to add it in. I have other suggestions to mention the other similar items}}
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Add a new section called "Related Items" on cosmetic pages.}}
 +
** {{c|+|Add a section below the Update History that includes links to related items from unofficial sets, this is not needed for official sets since these already have a table to go with}}.
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Trivia regarding old Workshop names and descriptions}}
 +
** {{c|-|I disagree. This has been for quite some time not enforced as valid Trivia, but, it has been seeing a lot of amount of attention lately with the newer cosmetics. I think it's a bit of a stretch Trivia related to an item's original name, or description. Considering that those are community-created, the authors has any freedom to add what they want, while in-game... some names and descriptions requires changes to sometimes suit the game better, or to avoid copyright issues. Right now, there's way too much information regarding old workshop name/desc, way too much.}}
 +
<hr>
 +
* {{c|Workshop "blurb" for cosmetic's quotation}}
 +
** {{c|-|Disagree. This was rarely used in the past, and would only be used for few cases where no interesting voice lines could be used to a cosmetic, however, recently, a lot of the newer cosmetic pages have only the "blurb", and in most of times, it's from here where people make Trivias related to the original Workshop descriptions. I think it's better left without any quotation (in case no voice line was chosen), than to use the workshop "blurb"}}.
 +
<hr>
 +
 
 +
Please leave your thoughts below on what you think, do you agree with the suggestions I made above, or do you have another look on those? If you agree on all the purposed changes, please add a comment with the {{c|+|-}} (<nowiki>{{c|+|}}</nowiki>) attached to your comment, if not, add {{c|-|-}} (<nowiki>{{c|-}}</nowiki>) instead. If you want to simply discuss or suggest something else, please use the {{c|?|-}} (<nowiki>{{c|?}}</nowiki>) for that.
 +
 
 +
Thank you. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 18:41, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
: I broadly support Gabrielwoj's comments, so far as they apply to Cosmetics pages, as long as it is understood that Cosmetics pages aren't particularly my focus. Hoewever,
 +
 
 +
:* {{c|Addition to Steam Workshop Thumbnails on the class gallery}}
 +
 
 +
::* {{c|+|I didn't mind this, and assumed it acceptable, and also saw it as incidentally promoting the successful projects (e.g., Frontline and Mayann). A can accept that some can see this being abused, but haven't experienced that myself.}}
 +
 
 +
:* {{c|Trivia regarding old Workshop names and descriptions}}
 +
 
 +
::* {{c|-|I disagree. I didn't think this wasn't being enforced, I see such Trivia being deleted, and have deleted it when I caught it.  Mind you, in this Event, I haven't monitored the new cosmetic pages, and I haven't checked the Jungle Inferno cosmetics for this violation.}}
 +
 
 +
:* {{c|Add a new section called "Related Items" on cosmetic pages.}}
 +
:** {{c|-|I disagree. If I understand you correctly, you want to use such a section to show the relationship of items that were proposed as a set but set not released as a set.  I don't see this as important enough to mention anywhere.  If certain of such items are particularly famous, then links in See also could be sufficient. }}
 +
 
 +
:* {{c|Workshop "blurb" for cosmetic's quotation}}
 +
:** {{c|+|I opposed a blanket prohibition of Workshop "blurb" for Cosmetics. OK, yes I may concede that using the Workshop "blurb" is an abusable "easy out".  While I do not care for whole cloth copying of ''huge'' amount of Workshop blurb, I strongly oppose any suggestion that the quotations draw from voice lines <u>only</u>; IMO, ''any'' Valve content is acceptable as long as it conformed to [[Help:Style guide/Quotes]]. As long as it is a good Quotation, it is far better than an unrelated Voice line. Note, my exposure to the use of Workshop blurbs (limited to maps) is to selectively crop the best parts. To put a fine point on it, I see no necessity that a Voice line be part of a quotation. Certainly, Comic dialog should be acceptable.}}
 +
 
 +
: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small>  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|talk]]) ([[User:Mikado282/To Do|To Do]]) 14:36, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 +
<hr>
 +
 
 +
::Thanks for your views on it, very interesting takes.
 +
 
 +
::To reply a few of your questions... The trivia/information about old name and desc has been scattered throughout a lot of pages, some even on the older item pages, while others in the more recent items. Example of an old item is... (well, it seems that was removed from time, it was on [[Scout Shako]] mentioning about the item's name and the original workshop description), while examples for new items are [[Athenian Attire]], [[Hephaistos' Handcraft]] and [[Olympic Leapers]].
 +
 
 +
::About the See Also, I think it's okay right now, as you mentioned. However, I've seen some pages just putting cosmetic items that are from the same "hat type" or style, for example, [[Compatriot]], most of the links there on See Also are simply due to an item having an "eagle" on it. I think we shouldn't do that and only focus as how you explained to us. The idea of "Related Items" should probably not be added, but we shouldn't also add too much on the "See Also" section.
 +
 
 +
::I agree on your view on the blurbs. Although, I still see some pages which could have used quotes, but still goes with the blurb. I guess we could use the blurb for placeholders, until someone has a nice and creative quote to put it there. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:38, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::: The quotes are an attractive nuisance; nubeditors think they do a service by adding one. I had assumed that nubs were just slaping weak at best viocelines on cosmetics, using the blurb for cosmeticts I haven't seen. Is that new to the SF2018 Cosmetics?
 +
::: Sometimes the blurb is pretty good.
 +
::: Aslo, nubs, if you are using a blurb, there is no rule saying you have to use the whole blurb. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small>  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|talk]]) ([[User:Mikado282/To Do|To Do]]) 04:43, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::::I see. But we still can use quotes from Official Videos or Comics, I've seen those before. There's a lot of variations to use it too. But yeah, blurbs has the advantage of being quick and able to use specific parts of it.
 +
 
 +
::::Yes, that's for the new SF2018 cosmetics, these are just an example, because there are several other examples throughout the Wiki.
 +
 
 +
::::I think we should get going with editing some of these stuff. So I guess we should start removing Trivia that originates from original Workshop name/desc, as well Trivia about "item sets"? [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 09:16, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Including "Action taunt" to each respective Class page. ==
 +
 
 +
Hey, something that always bothered me is the lack of taunts on the class pages, currently, "Action taunt" are only specified on update Navigation tables, and on the Taunts page, however, I believe there should be a table for the taunts available for a specific class, as well all-class taunts, and perhaps minimizing some of the information found on [[Taunts]]. My suggestions are:
 +
* Adding the information found on Taunts to each class page (the current table is fine, and could be directly exported to a class page, for example);
 +
* Rework the "Action taunts" section on the Taunts page to have a similar style table found on "List of Class cosmetic items".
 +
Please leave your thoughts and suggestions below, thanks. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:58, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Team-Colored Styles section ==
 +
 
 +
Well, here's something else I've been thinking... There are some items that have a diverse amount of styles, but we currently do not show BLU color Styles. This is a problem for items like [[Duck Journal]], which we just see the default BLU skin, and not all the rest of the duck skins. My suggestion is the following:
 +
 
 +
* Modify the infobox template to include "Styles". So, for instance, Styles can show up at the infobox (similar on how it looks on [[Team Captain]] page), and differing by each team and style. In the case for Duck Journal, the styles available on the infobox would be: None, Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Demoman, Heavy, Engineer, Medic, Sniper, Spy, Quackston Hale. I think it would be important to note when it's a style, perhaps by using a prefix "Style: ".
 +
 
 +
As we are already on the topic of the infobox, something I also suggest is:
 +
 
 +
* Add support to non-team colored items for the Infobox Class/Styles section. There is currently a problem on showing off different models per class for items that are not team-colored. An example is [[Dead Little Buddy]], due to the lack of support on the infobox for such, the previews for class differences had to be added below, on the gallery section.
 +
 
 +
With these changes, I believe that the section about Styles could be removed. And only be mentioned in case the style is only affected by painting.
 +
 
 +
Leave your thoughts below. Thank you. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:36, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Something I don't get about clipping cosmetics. ==
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 +
So, something that I don't get about one of the Scout's cosmetics is that the Flak Jack. You can't equip it whilst having the Weight Room Warmer equipped, I personally think that it would look better if you could equip both.
 +
Here are some pictures of what it would look like, maybe they could just fix the clipping up in the back.
 +
[https://gyazo.com/4ec5cc3805bbbda51420a771422171fd Scout with Weight Room Warmer and without Flak Jack]
 +
 
 +
[https://gyazo.com/59933ca5ca87b90f84ce6b1ec8a2a5e6 Scout with both the Weight Room Warmer and the Flak Jack equipped] <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Rozeyy|Rozeyy]]''' ([[User talk:Rozeyy|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Rozeyy|contribs]]) 30 December 2018</small>
 +
:This is for discussion related to the Wiki, please post your concerns about clipping cosmetics on the Steam Community Discussions. Thanks! [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px]] <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS, cursive, sans-serif; color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  17:55, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
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 +
== Question regarding Wikitext source ==
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 +
Hello! I was wondering if it is possible to view the source of a Wiki page without editing it / locking it? Thanks in advance! [[User:Tocksi|Tocksi]] ([[User talk:Tocksi|talk]]) 20:42, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 +
:I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by "locking it", unless you're speaking of protected articles, in which case can only be performed by the Wiki staff. As for viewing the source of a page without editing, I don't believe we have a read-only mode for editing. Either log out of your account or open a new window in private/incognito mode as it does not preserve your browsing activity . . [[User:Wookipan|<font color="DB9C1F">'''Wookipan'''</font>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 22:15, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
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 +
== The Wiki has issues loading images with special characters. ==
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Hey. So, a while ago I replaced the [[:File:Brütal_Bouffant.png|image]] for [[Brütal Bouffant]], and noticed that neither the direct link of the image, or the image on the page is being shown. Upon close inspection, the error code "{{code|Error creating thumbnail: convert: unable to open image `/var/www/html/w/images/0/03/Brtal_Bouffant.png': No such file or directory...}}", shows that it's trying to find for the "Brtal_Bouffant.png" file, showing that it's not being able to read the "ü" part of Brütal Bouffant. I don't know if this gets fixed by itself over time, but the Brütal Bouffant page looks pretty messy with the error code. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:56, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
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: Thanks for reporting this! I've deployed an update to the servers to fix this ([https://github.com/tfwiki/mediawiki/commit/7292aa5e7a017d154103d7dab5abcea118800744 exact commit, for interested parties; our new hosting doesn't have the en_US.utf8 locale]). Should be all sorted across the site now! -[[User:RJackson|<span class="modbg" style="margin-right:1px;text-shadow: #538237 1px 1px 0px;">RJ</span>]] 02:27, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
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 +
== Inclusion of Steam Workshop's original name for the Cosmetic Item / Weapon / Map ==
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 +
Hi. I want to make a small poll and know what people think about this subject. I'd like to know your thoughts on this. Do you...
 +
* {{c|+|Support keeping the original Workshop names on "...under the name", on the main summary?}}
 +
* {{c|-|Or you'd prefer the exclusion of the original Workshop names on the page, removing the "...under the name" section.}}
 +
Please leave a small insight and thoughts about your vote decision. Here mine:
 +
* {{c|-}} I think we should remove the name from the pages. We had previously decided to remove information regarding trivia to old workshop names (as well information about unreleased styles or other content). There's some Workshop names which are just codenames (Crone's Dome being "'''Loss of witches (Bastinda_2012)'''"), and some of them having phrases on the name (such as Insulated Inventor's "'''Insulated innovator: V wow this keeps happening'''"). Most of the time, the original names serve no real purpose, as trivia regarding the name are no longer being supported, and these are left just occupying unnecessary space on the page.
 +
Hopefully, with this discussion, we can decide in either keeping them or not, and resolve the confusion we are having at the moment. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:26, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
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:* {{c|-}} I never saw aby purpose in mentioning their original workshop names, as ultimately Valve decides to keep the name or not of items (save for maps), and the name of the item on workshop is like really not that important - besides that, the viewer can check the original name himself, by checking the workshop page, so it's quite redundant to note that in the article. [[User:Goodjob|Goodjob]] ([[User talk:Goodjob|talk]]) 16:33, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
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 +
:* {{c|=|Equivocating 2}} Specific to mentioning the development name in the Lead. I wondered if the practice was grandfathered.  I did some checking, the form was established two months after the Workshop opened with the release of the first of the Workshop items.
 +
::: From the December 22, 2011 edit of BFD: 'The Big Elfin Deal was contributed to the game via the Steam Workshop, with the name "The Elf".'
 +
:: So, actually, its not like it is a new thing, in spite of my impressions or questionable recollections, or suggestions, otherwise. It really has "always been done that way."  But, Gabrielwoj makes some great points, some of the "names" are really unimpressive at best.  I don't think the old names are important, but maybe someone thought they were. But, we've chatted about this on and off for a few months, at least since it got cold, and no support for keeping them. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 04:03, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::{{c|=|Equivocating 3}} A candidate for keeping, which was deleted, was [[Monster Mash]], it is a notorious name IRL, but Valve had copyright reason, so thought, but maybe there real issue was style. IMO, much of the time, I don't care about the pre-release name. But I also don't care about detailed descriptions in the cosmetic leads, or detailed recapitulations of comics int their supposed Synopses.  23:52, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:* {{c|+|Strong support for keeping the original workshop names in the main summary}} This change is so tiny it barely affects anything, and I like seeing the original names; sometimes having their own little references or just giving an example what the name could have been, which is enjoyable to me as a reader. If we truly wanted to remove this small addition, all those sentences would be 'This item was contributed to the Steam Workshop' which seems lifeless and is just saying what's already in the infobox, which actually makes readability worse. The arguments above, the names sometimes being codenames or having phrases in them are pure cherrypicking and don't portray accurately what the original names usually are - we could always remove such names on a case-by-case basis. And of course, the argument 'just occupying unnecessary space on the page' is pointless as we are literally talking about just a few words here. '''{ [[User:TidB|TidB]]''' | [[User_talk:TidB|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/TidB|c]]''' }''' 10:39, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::There's pros and cons on keep the original workshop names. The pros being: Sometimes it can be interesting, older names can be better than the new names, and it's also useful for those who make images (as most of the time, the folder name for a cosmetic is based on the original workshop name). Although, there's a few cons, such as: workshop names being changed after being accepted in-game (so it would require removal of the name in a future edit), workshop names with codenames (like Crone's Dome), or workshop names with actual phrases in it. Other issues that comes with Workshop original names is that it makes new users include trivia regarding the old name, which we decided to drop these types of trivia (I'd say the same for the publicity blurb, but that was discussed before, so). I kinda stopped removing the workshop names (I did for like 15 items, then someone asked to me why, and then I halted my edits), but I know some editors are removing when making improvements to the page. It's something that is still debatable, nonetheless. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:18, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== The cache system is way too slow. ==
 +
 
 +
Hi. The cache system on the Wiki, ever since it was migrated to MediaWiki 2.0 (I think, I just know that it the main framework was updated), has ever since been very slow. I tend to upload a lot of images, and a lot of times, I have to wait for days for an image to catch up, I almost can't ever check if my work looks good on the page, requiring me to check only when the image is finally fully cached. [[Crafty Hair|Here's an example]], an image I recently updated.
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<br><br>The problem is that the old image size from the previous revision gets used for the new image, and so it stretches very poorly on the page. Other times, the image seems to be properly sized, but still appears blurry in the page, as shown here on [[Weight Room Warmer]], which in case of that image, it was uploaded in 14:07, 22 January 2019, almost 1 month later and the image is still not fully cached.
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<br><br>And other times, the images doesn't properly update at all, as seen on [[Assassin's Attire]], some paint variant tables (that were uploaded around 16:37, 7 July 2018) show up the previous version instead. I'm not sure if this is a case of the cache or something else, but even when I attempted re-uploading the file, it didn't worked.
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<br><br>I remember I didn't had these issues on the previous MediaWiki. Would there be a way to improve the time for the cache system, or perhaps optimize it somehow? I've worked and been into other Wikis, and this is the only one which I see this problem happening. The Weight Room Warmer pic was just an example, but there's other images around the Wiki having the same or similar problems (some from old uploads, other from recent modifications). Thanks. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:25, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
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== Documentation about Abuse Report and Bug Report on the Wiki? ==
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Hi. I think the Wiki should have a page related to the Abuse Report system ('F7' key). I started to wonder if something was already covered, but apparently, the only mention of it seems to be on [[List of default keys]]. I also think we should document Bug Reporting as well. The addition to Bug Reporting could facilitate users who wants to report a game-breaking bug (for the [[Finder's Fee]] hat), although, I really don't know if in-game bug report system works for that. As for the Abuse Report system, we got pages for Coaching, the Workshop button on the main menu, Options, especially sprays, as well many other stuff. I think a page about it should be documented. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 22:00, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
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: If I understand you correctly, since the wiki has articles for [[Coaching]], the [[Steam Workshop|Workshop button on the main menu]], and [[Options]], <u>then, for completeness there should be [[Report Player]] ([[Abuse Report]]) and [[Report Bug]]/[[Bug Report]] articles.</u>
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: Technically, while there is a Workshop button on the Main Menu, the [[Steam Workshop]] covers the whole Valve interface rather than the MM button. And I don't see any broad "Options" article.
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:That said, [[Report Player]] ([[Abuse Report]]) and [[Report Bug]]/[[Bug Report]] do seem to be long-missing articles, as long as they focus on the ''Team Fortress 2'' interface, especially as a how to.
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:[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 00:19, 14 March 2019 (UTC) 23:47, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
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::I attempted writing a page for it, it's currently on my [[User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox|sandbox]]. I named specifically "Abuse Reporter", that's how the game calls it by the in-game tip that is shown on the loading screen. I haven't taken any screenshots related about it, but please let me know what you think. You may edit the page if you see any mistakes or that you think section should be rewritten. The page is currently a "stub", even though I haven't actually added the template. I was thinking about adding the information that the rules applied to the report has to be followed from the [http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ Steam Subscriber Agreement], but I couldn't find any info regarding if these reports are really complied by those same rules. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:19, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
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::: As far as content, I have no idea of anything to do with abuse reporting, so keep going. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 23:58, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
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== The new talk page layout ==
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I've noticed that some talk pages, mostly new ones, have this new, weird layout style which is way more different than the normal talk page. Example: [[Talk:Operation Memes vs Machines]]. Not only is this talk page laggy and annoying to deal with, but it also doesn't show replies half the time. I wanted to reply to a reply, so first I had to do some weird refresh magic to get the reply to pop up, but then when I finished my reply, the layout asked me to do "the captcha below," but no matter how many times I did it, there was no captcha. Does anyone know how to disable this, or are we just stuck with this?
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[[File:Pyro emblem RED.png|16x16px]] '''''[[User:BeingAwesom|<span style="font-family:comic sans ms;color:#f00">BeingAwesom</span>]]''''' [[File:Pyro emblem RED.png|16x16px]] <span style="font-family:comic sans ms;color:#000000">''([[User talk:BeingAwesom|<span style="font-family:comic sans ms;color:#f00">talk</span>]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/BeingAwesom|<span style="font-family:comic sans ms;color:#f00">contribs</span>]])''</span> 03:10, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
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: It should be removed soon. See [[TFW:Technical requests#StructuredDiscussions]]. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 04:49, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
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: FWIW, BeingAwesom, I did respond the Shadows topic that prompted this topic, my original response didn't show then showed until I fix a typo and hasn't been seen since. You can see my response if you search through the history. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 17:40, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
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== Promotional or Distributed? ==
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With the recent addition of the new templates for availability (great idea btw), I think it is about time that we 'clear up' the usage of "promotional" and "distributed". These terms, at the moment, seem to be used almost interchangeably on a lot of pages.
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For example:
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These are apparently promotional: [[Jaunty Globetrotter]], [[Jaunty Explorer]], [[Conspiracy Cap]]
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While these are apparently distributed: [[TF2Maps Ray of Sunshine]], [[TF2Maps Charitable Heart]], [[Spectral Snowflake]], [[Gift of Giving 2016]], [[Public Accessor]], [[Thought that Counts]]
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Personally, I feel that 'promotional' refers to something that got used for promoting something (duh) and acquire money from players. This includes mostly donation medals.
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'Distributed' (for me) refers to something that was distributed to the player for doing something specific (event, etc). For example, [[Titanium Tank Participant Medal 2017]] is a clear distributed item as it got distributed to everyone who completed the tour.
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I know one could argue that "the player buying the medal is something specific" and "donation medals also gets distributed" or, on the other hand, "event medals always promote the event they are from", but why have two terms for the same thing? We should really make a line of some kind so it means something.
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Exception could exist (as always), but if anyone has any other strong opinions on what should be what - speak up :o
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And also: why are the words for 'distributed' so much different between pages for a lot of languages? That should really be streamlined, unless they are some weird languages that change on a case-to-case basis (even for single words, somehow).
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== Should we include the Item Kind twice on Graded Items? ==
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Hi. I was noticing something in game... Graded items contains both the Item Kind + Grade on their descriptions, but these items also have an additional Item Kind right below it. Take for example this [[https://i.imgur.com/0ztKb2B.png picture]], we can see "Commando Grade Guitar" and "Guitar" right below it. Should we include this on each Graded Cosmetic Page? Additionally, this isn't the case while viewing an item on Steam Community, as seen [[https://i.imgur.com/4cJRUx0.png here]], only mentioning "Commando Grade Guitar" and nothing else. This looks like a bug, rather than a feature, but anyway, it's how it's in the game. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:06, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
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: Does [https://i.imgur.com/bLbQ6AU.png this] count as mentioning it twice on the SC? [[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 14:09, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
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::Maybe. Also, good point. These Graded items doesn't have level in-game, but apparently show up in SC. The "Guitar" on TF2 is on the same string color as the Level in SC, now I know why it's mentioned twice, because the Level [#] doesn't show up in-game. Now we have two things to discuss, one the addition to the Item Kind, and this situation with Item Level and viewing on SC. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:31, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
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== Addition to "Community Market" under the Infobox Picture. ==
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Hi. I've made a mock-up of what could be possibly added to several cosmetic/tool pages: [https://i.imgur.com/z2edATE.png i.imgur.com/z2edATE.png]. Clicking on that blue button will redirect the user to "[https://steamcommunity.com/market/search?appid=440&q=Diplomat Steam Community Market :: Showing results for: Team Fortress 2, "Diplomat"]".<br>
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Additional thoughts: I've made the button blue to be different to the one's seen like [[Merc's Pride Scarf|here]], which allows to buy directly from the Mann Co. Store (via browser). I've made a "simple fix", but it may be possible to technically include the price too, backpack.tf shows the price in the Community Market, so I believe it's somewhere on the TF2 API? Although, with this method, we would need to include buttons for all the different marketable qualities (the Diplomat, for example, has listings for both Unique and Strange versions of the item).
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<br>The button can also be worded like: "View available listings for the Diplomat on the Steam Community Market".
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<br>I find it lacking that we don't have a direct link to Market Listings for marketable items. Thoughts?[[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:56, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
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:Additionally, we should include "'''Marketable: Yes/No'''" on the Basic Information as well, no? [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:59, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
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:: {{c|agree}} Great idea, that's my favorite feature on Dota Wiki. Alternatively, we could use the item's defindex (from GetSchemaItems) to return the listings instead (like this: [https://steamcommunity.com/market/search/?q=appid:440+prop_def_index:416 appid:440 prop_def_index:416]). Also, even though it's somewhat possible to return the item prices, I don't think it's a good idea, Market prices tend to fluctuate from time to time. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 23:49, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
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:::Nice, I was trying to figure out if there was an "index" or code that could be used. We can possibly obtain this info from a list of indexes or something, and the infobox directly grabs that information on the template (not requiring to, for instance, having to search by the item's name, like "&q=Diplomat"). [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 00:09, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
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:::: {{tlx|defindex}} already exists, so it was simple to create a {{tlx|Buy now}} button that redirects to the Market (see [[User:Tark/BuyNow]]). Changing the [[:File:Btn buynow.png|background image]] requires additional permissions, tho. orz — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 18:00, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
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:::::Looks nice. I suppose you dropped the "the" on "View listings on Steam Community Market" because it wouldn't fit? Also, we could just create another image if that's the case. I think it's really important to distinguish both Steam Community Market links from direct TF2 Purchases, as I believe there's going to be pages with both. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 22:08, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
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:::::: Should be "View listings on the Steam Community Market" now, thanks! Could you make a slightly different version of [[:File:Btn buynow.png|this image]]? — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 22:44, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
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:::::::How different? I can make the 2 Steam Logos blue. I say blue as it's the predominant color on Steam Community. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:18, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
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:::::::: [[:File:Btn scm.png|How's this?]] [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:21, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
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::::::::: [https://wiki.tf/d/2422438 {{c|done}}]. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 16:32, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
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:::::::::: Nicely done. Now, we just need two things: Add the string "Marketable: Yes/No", No shows up when there's no "| marketable", and Yes shows up when there's "| marketable" on the item's infobox table. The second thing is, we should add similar type of buttons for each [[Paint Can]], currently there's no option to purchase them (or to view listings on the Community Market). [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:11, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
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::::::::::: Also, with the inclusion of the string above, we need to find a way to specify which qualities are Marketable and which ones aren't. For instance, we can have the Marketable Listings on the Scattergun page, but that only applies to Strange and Killstreak variations... I don't know exactly how can we specify each... [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:25, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
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== About plurals. ==
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So, about plurals... how do we specify when an item's name or kind should be pluralized? [[Robin Walkers]] are both shoes, and the name is also pluralized, so I can see why it was pluralized here. I've recently made an edit to [[Blizzard Britches]], to make it plural, as it's a pair of pants, and the name is in plural. However, I'm still unsure about the rest of the summary. In Robin Walkers, it's mentioned "They are...", while in Blizzard Britches, I still kept the traditional "It".<br>
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So, what can I do here? Should all pluralized names receive the "are/were/they" treatment? I can see pages like [[Shin Shredders]] still mentioning the item in singular. Also, should all items that are "a pair of boots", "a pair of pants", "glasses", be pluralized, despite if their names aren't, due to their kind? [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:06, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
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== Cosmetic Item floating "Bugs"... I think we should get rid of those. ==
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Hey. So... in some pages, there are bugs like... "When this item is equipped upon the Spy, it visibly floats in front of his lapel.". I wouldn't consider these as bugs, it's just how the model is positioned on the class. These type of "bugs" can be seen in pages like [[Operation Gear Grinder Badge]] (as well all the other Operation Badges) and a few others (I remember seeing on [[Power Up Canteen]], but it looks like it was removed already). I think we shouldn't list these are bugs, rarely this has an unintended effect (mostly when the {{code|hat}} bone goes to {{code|prp_hat}} on Sniper, which causes the hat to re-position a bit, but even so, it's very few Sniper hats that actually has this issue. As an example, the [[Wiki Cap]] on Sniper clips on the top of his head, most likely that the bone was transitioned from hat to prp_hat, so he could grab while doing his Melee Taunt, and the only hat I can think of now with an issue like this, is the [[Toadstool Topper]] on Sniper).
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<br>So, yeah, I vote {{c|x|No}}. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:13, 7 June 2019 (UTC)
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:Definitely not a bug, it was specifically requested for our [[Tournament_Medal_-_Cap_that_Cup|Cap that Cup medal]] to be floating in front of the person so it doesn't clip with stuff like the [[Veteran's Attire]] on Soldier. It might be unintentional that it's so far, but it's definitely not a bug. I vote removal too <br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 08:35, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
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::I will keep an eye on and remove any "bugs" related to this. I've seen other medals which were also made to "float" so it reduces clipping with shirt items. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:37, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
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== Mann Co. Store extra descriptions ==
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Hey. So, I was looking around the Mann Co. Store, and some items have an extra description on them. For example, Something Special for Someone Special has [https://i.imgur.com/Llm4uV0.png this], while any decalable item has [https://i.imgur.com/xxZTwrl.png this]. Other examples come from [https://i.imgur.com/ZD62o6d.png paint cans], [https://i.imgur.com/oyLbUkm.png Backpack Expander], [https://i.imgur.com/cQpz027.png Name Tag], [https://i.imgur.com/GOrrCG6.png Desc Tag], [https://i.imgur.com/XVkbdFs.png Decal Tool] and so on. Should we include these more-detailed descriptions somewhere? If so, where? [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 00:08, 13 June 2019 (UTC)
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== Issues with Scream Fortress 2018 Item Icons. ==
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Hello, could someone please investigate why some icons for [[Scream Fortress 2018]] are not updating accordingly? As some of you may know, I've been making new Item Icons, and for the majority of the SF2018 items, none of the icons are being updated with the latest revisions. The following icons has been updated, but their icons never refresh to the current revision:
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<gallery>
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File:Item icon Hephaistos' Handcraft.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Hephaistos' Handcraft
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File:Item icon Athenian Attire.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Athenian Attire
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File:Item icon Olympic Leapers.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Olympic Leapers
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File:Item icon Dressperado.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Dressperado
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File:Item icon Gaelic Glutton.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Gaelic Glutton
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File:Item icon Mann-O-War.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Mann-O-War
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File:Item icon Defragmenting Hard Hat 17%.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Defragmenting Hard Hat 17%
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File:Item icon Deadbeats.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Deadbeats
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</gallery>
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These icons are the ones I noticed since I've updated them recently, but other SF2018 items may have been having the same issue (the only one so far with no issues was the [[Vampire Vanquisher]]).
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<br>
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As a side note, the Gaelic Glutton icon on the [[Demoman]] Cosmetic Items table is also stretched, this is due to a previous revision for the icon which was smaller. Ever after 2 changes (the first one to fix the size, and the second one which is a complete new icon), the icon is still having issues showing the current revision.
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<br>
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Thanks. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 14:05, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
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:Seems to me that it's cache issues again. Similarly to this, some of the painted variants on [[Assassin's Attire]] aren't updating. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS, cursive, sans-serif; color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  18:18, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
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::Updated once again. Highway Star seems to not even show the thumbnail, regardless of the revision. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 16:14, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
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:::Highway Star fixed itself, but Deadbeats is another item with the same problem. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 20:41, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
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::::Well, Highway Star is again not working, as well two new icons from the Summer Pack 2019:
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<gallery>
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File:Item icon Highway Star.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Hephaistos' Handcraft
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File:Item icon Dancing Doe.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Athenian Attire
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File:Item icon Speedy Scoundrel.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Olympic Leapers
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</gallery>
 +
::::All the rest of Summer 2019 items are working just fine, it's just those 2 (+ Highway Star) that doesn't seem to be refreshing. While the Highway Star appears fine in here, it doesn't refresh on this [[Scream Fortress 2018|page]], and possibly others.  [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:47, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::::More icons:
 +
<gallery>
 +
File:Item icon Tournament Medal - Pugiklander.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Tournament Medal - Pugiklander
 +
File:Item icon Tournament Medal - EuroLander.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Tournament Medal - EuroLander
 +
File:Item icon Tournament Medal - TFArena 6v6 Arena Mode Cup.png|left|thumb|150px|frame|Tournament Medal - TFArena 6v6 Arena Mode Cup
 +
</gallery>
 +
:::::[[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:00, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Changing the titles and the name of certain items and item sets. ==
 +
 
 +
Hey there everyone! I'm new to the translation section of the Wiki.
 +
I have a problem with the translation with the titles of some pages and items.
 +
The translation guide only says to add a DISPLAYTITLE on the top of the page, but the item doesn't change name.
 +
I noticed that if i add a
 +
 
 +
| name        = NameExample
 +
 
 +
in the item info section, I can change the item's name. But sometimes it says Template:Dictionary/items/nameexample
 +
Same thing goes for item sets.
 +
Is there someone who can explain me how it works please?
 +
 
 +
I would be really happy! :D
 +
'''[[User:D-ray Ent.|D-ray Ent.]]''' ([[User talk:D-ray Ent.|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/D-ray Ent.|contribs]]) 29th of June 2019 20:18 CEST
 +
 
 +
:Hello,
 +
:The wiki works with the [[Template:Dictionary|Dictionary]], here you can find all translations for items and other things. If you want to edit it, click on the "items" section, scroll down to the appropriate subsection and then edit it.
 +
:At the bottom of the page I linked is the documentation on how to use the dictionary. If you have any more questions regarding the dictionary and editing is, feel free to post it on the talk page.
 +
:Also please sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>
 +
:<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 18:35, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Regarding recent consistency edits ==
 +
 
 +
In recent times, there've been some edits by [[User:Denied|Denied]] and [[User:Hinaomi|Hinaomi]] to improve the consistency of pages, but I'm don't quite agree with both the methods and the way of how these edits are made. For one part, the main three consistency points seem to be
 +
# Changing 'This item' to the actual item name
 +
# Removing the 'under the name' part in the community-created sentence
 +
# Removing the second Steam Workshop link in the community-created sentence
 +
 
 +
While I agree with the last point, I still find the first two confusing and don't agree with them - the usage of 'this item' avoids the repetition of the item name which also improves the visual aspects of the article, since the sentences are usually placed vertically adjacent to each other. They also make it harder in languages such as German because it can be awkward to use the {{tl|item name}}-ified versions all the time. For the second point, just refer to the the [[#Inclusion of Steam Workshop's original name for the Cosmetic Item / Weapon / Map|discussion above]].
 +
 
 +
What I ''still'' don't get though is how these consistency edits are appearing out of thin air, especially the first point. The only source of doing these edits is [[User_talk:Hinaomi#Changing_from_.22This_item.22_to_.5Bitem_name.5D|this talk page entry]] and it provides no reasoning for why to do this kinda thing, just mentioning 'consistency' which could always go both ways. The second point is even weirder, because there's the discussion right above, there's no consensus being reached and apparently it's still getting edited in (or rather, out)?
 +
 
 +
Because in the end, I think we might actually create more inconsistency because I don't see all the pages getting updated, and especially not the translated versions of them. I'd love to hear your input.
 +
 
 +
'''{ [[User:TidB|TidB]]''' | [[User_talk:TidB|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/TidB|c]]''' }''' 20:37, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 +
:I'd like to keep "This item was awarded" instead of full name. I was adding them from the begging, but at some point [[User:Hinaomi|Hinaomi]] started adding full names, and becuse he's here longer than, I assumed he knows better than I. That's it. If it's neccesarry I can revert them back to "This item". About the "was added under 'name'" I think it's not necesarry to add them, because Valve was changing almost every Workshop item added, and now they're adding pretty much unchanged names straight from the Workshop, so adding them is kinda pointless. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 07:48, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 +
::I don't think reverting will be necessary, these kinda edits can be done when other parts of the article have to be edited as well, but I agree. For the 'under the name' thingy, I'd say that when the name is the same, we could either use 'under the same name' (as it's been used before), or just omit it. As I said in the discussion above, of course it doesn't make sense to ''always'' include the original workshop name, but generally it could be a good idea. '''{ [[User:TidB|TidB]]''' | [[User_talk:TidB|t]] | [[Special:Contributions/TidB|c]]''' }''' 07:55, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::: @TidB : I would have thought Denied's question to Hinaomi was rhetorical rather than supportive of the change away from "This item". I have always felt the abstraction serve the purpose of readability.  As for mentioning Workshop names, I've participated in a couple of discussions on this, but I am not going to try to locate them during my lunch walk. In them I think I was probably supportive of not mentioning the Workshop name unless it was actually notable, exceedingly rare cases to be sure, IMO. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 17:31, 24 July 2019 (UTC) [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 19:55, 24 July 2019 (UTC)•
 +
:::: Sorry for the late reply, and I don't have much time so I gotta say this real quick. I don't mind if it changed to either way, just make them consistence with others. 02:07, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Please help me with Categories. ==
 +
 
 +
Hello. Soon, I'll be doing Item icons for (hopefully) all Decorated/War Painted weapons. While I was checking categories for existing Item Icons, I noticed some inconsistency. In some icons, the following categories are set:
 +
<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>== Summary ==</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>[[Category:Item icons]]</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>== Licensing ==</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>{{ScreenshotTF2}}</nowiki>}}
 +
<br>
 +
But in some newer icons, the following are set instead:
 +
<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>== Summary ==</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>{{ExtractTF2}}</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>== Licensing ==</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>[[Category:Item icons]]</nowiki>}}<br>
 +
{{code|<nowiki>[[Category:Cosmetic images]]</nowiki>}}
 +
<br>
 +
So, I have a few questions. One, because those icons will be completely new, they should be "ScreenshotTF2", right? Because they won't be extracted from TF2's game files or anything, and will be, instead, made from scratch using HLMV. Two, should I add "Weapon images" category for the Decorated Weapon icons, too?
 +
<br>If "ScreenshotTF2" is the right license for that, I'll be doing a cleanup on some of the Item icons where it's marked as "ExtractTF2" instead, from all the Item icons where I made a newer consistent version (in Shugo Style). [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:14, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Crate Depression ==
 +
 
 +
What do we do with the Crate Depression? I've heard the following options:
 +
# Do nothing.
 +
# Mention it as a note on the [[Unusual|unusual]] page or the [[crate]] page.
 +
# Make its own page.
 +
 
 +
From these suggestions, I would personally go with number 2, because I don't think it's enough to warrant its own page. Maybe make a redirect to said note. If you have any other suggestion feel free to bring it up.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]])
 +
:I select the second one. My idea is mentioning that some Unusuals are Untradable (on the Unusual page), and explain the reason why. I don't think we need to mention the title "Crate Depression", but at least explain why the Unusuals are untradable and perhaps include an external link to the TF2 Blog post explaining it. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:15, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
:: It was officially dubbed the crate depression, so maybe just a mention like "Dubbed "the crate depression" as a play on the great depression".<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 19:18, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
::: Still, I don't think we need to mention about the name. The name could be included on the "References" list as the title of the blogpost "Update on The Crate Depression of 2019", and that would be enough. The wording of the Note could be something like this: "Some Unusual items are untradable, as a result for a fix of a market-crashing bug that affected the game in July 25th, which resulted in some [[Crates]] having 100% Unusual chance drops upon unboxing them. Due to the sheer amount of Unusuals unboxed in that day, Valve has decided in marking all Unusual items that were unboxed from that day and from those specific crates as untradable, with the exception of the first one unboxed per Steam user.[1]". And then [1] redirects to the References section for the Unusual page, containing a link with the title "Update on The Crate Depression of 2019". [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:35, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== UserTalk "Topic" pages are very broken. ==
 +
 
 +
Hi. The new comment system, that were implemented for UserTalk pages (as well Talk pages), is really broken. Sometimes it's impossible to see the replies that people make. I just made a comment on a Topic which I can't view my own post. Another issue is that you can't put URLs on these posts, otherwise it'll ask to complete a CAPTCHA that does not appear on the page, so I had to replace the dots into "(.)", just to bypass the URL detection. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 23:20, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
:I believe the solution to not seeing new answers is to go to the talk page itself (usually it's just looking at a topic, just click "read" or "discussion") then refresh, this worked for me. But yes, we've all already voted to take this new system away. It seemed better, but it ended up being worse. You can't even use "show preview" either. RJ should be removing this asap, but it's tricky because it might delete stuff. <br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 23:26, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== "Main article: Item set" under == Item set == ==
 +
 
 +
Is it possible to add "Main article: Item set" under == Item set == like it's done with == Painted variants == that adds "Main article: Paint Can" under it? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 18:43, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
<nowiki>{{main|Item Set}}</nowiki> I guess? Turns into<br>{{main|Item set}}[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 18:53, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
:Yeah but you need to add it manually. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 05:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
:: Discuss it on the [[Template talk:Set|talk page]] I guess?<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 10:34, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Inaccuracies regarding beta content? ==
 +
 
 +
I'm a sucker for TF2's beta content. I love it, but there is a ginormous amount of inaccuracies regarding them. Stuff like Demoman's Beta Head, which in reality is just Marphy Black's Blu Demoman Head from a Beta Demoman mod he made in 2009. Can we please also add stuff like the Trigger, the Incendiary Cannon particles, the Badlands Models and more?
 +
 
 +
== About Discords on tournament pages ==
 +
 
 +
A Discord server requires an account to visit, personally I think it shouldn't be included on tournament (medal) pages, but rather have other sources like Steam or a reddit post. There might be an exception if it's linked in the "External links" section, and mention that you need an account for it. I don't think it falls under advertising (because the entire page is basically advertising then). Options I can think of are:
 +
# Remove all Discord links, no exceptions
 +
# Remove all Discord links, except the ones in the "External links" section of the article
 +
 
 +
Personally, I go for 2.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 10:49, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:I'd vote for option 1, but option 2 sounds good aswell. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS, cursive, sans-serif; color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  10:53, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
::2, yes. We could possibly add something similar to <nowiki>{{citation needed}}</nowiki> but it's "account needed" instead. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:19, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
::: So just like, <sup>account needed</sup>?<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 13:27, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::: Option 1. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 15:35, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 +
::::: 1st option. As I stated on [[Talk:ARG#This page is full of external links, some that seem untrustworthy.|Talk:ARG]], all external sources should be accessible at all times without the need to register in order to view the content. I'll write a policy in regard to this sometime in the future. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 17:31, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Should we note when Cosmetic Items fall on the ground? ==
 +
 
 +
Heya, so... I've been thinking for a while, I don't think we have any information regarding Cosmetic Items falling to the ground when a player is killed, do we? Not all Cosmetic Items fall from the ground, mostly hats are the ones that does, however, there's some exceptions, like the [[Cold Case]]. Should we add a line saying that, for example: "The Cold Case falls from the player upon death, and remains on the world for a few seconds", or even a more simple route, just a "Category" on the page for "falling cosmetics", huh? For Cosmetics that does not fall to the ground, we don't need to explain anything, if anything, a category for "non-falling cosmetics" could work. At the moment, we have category for Paintable items, Jiggleboned items, and so on, so I wouldn't see an issue with "falling" cosmetics too. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:47, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Regarding pages on custom maps, competitions, MVM missions, and such ==
 +
<br> Discussion moved here from [[Talk:Custom maps]]. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  11:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Seeing as how the question of custom maps being included has caused nothing but vulgarities and personal attacks, I would like to put forth a discussion about whether or not unofficial custom maps should stay on this Wiki at all. We have no ways to determine whether a map is to be considered ''worthy'' of having its own article or not. On the other hand, they also don't have much significance to TF2 itself other than their usage on some community servers. Most of them have their own pages and such whereever they're uploaded anyway, be it GameBanana, TF2Maps, or something like that. Personally, I'm for removing all the custom map pages on the Wiki. Please leave your thoughts below. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  19:07, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
:I'm unaware of the vulgarity or personal attacks, but I can see this happening (I saw a while ago someone who was banned for adding offensive content to their UserPage, but I'm unsure on what was that about). In the topic of personal attacks, the Trivia on [[WelcomeToMyMine (mission)]] regarding the two Mann Up players could be classified as an attack to them, regardless if you see them as "toxic" or not. In any regard, I don't think the Wiki should specifically mention users for their actions, as it's done on WelcomeToMyMine page.
 +
:Because these maps are custom made, it's very easy for someone to add a reference on the map for something, just to be featured on the "Official Wiki".
 +
:In conclusion, I vote for removal of custom maps. Since we are in the topic of "user-created content", we should also remove [[Wallpapers|user-created wallpapers from this page]]. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 19:56, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
::I agree to removing the unofficial wallpapers as well. The userpage that was deleted for ''offensive content'' was throwing shade at our admins/moderators and some other editors (if I recall correctly, please don't take this as a fact). The reason they were so upset was that the page for their custom map was deleted or something like that, for which they held a grudge for over '''three years.''' Custom MVM missions should also be purged, along with pages about TF2Maps contests and community events (like Canteen Crasher), as they are of no relevance to TF2 in the Official Wiki. If a map was made official because it won a contest (as is the case with [[Mountain Lab]]), it can be mentioned on the page of the map itself. Custom map pages and MVM missions can be moved to the userpages of their creators, if they wish to keep them.
 +
::The trivia you mentioned, ''"GuYs lOOK i CaN CaRrY" and "The carrier's pocket slave" references the user BrutalPizza and Trickstabber. They are known for their toxic behaviour and are notorious for kicking new players frequently. At times they can be seen in the tour Two Cities when in Mann Up. Experienced Mann Up players encourage players that aren't close to them to never play with them,'' is definitely overboard. There is no room for personal attacks on the Wiki, ''especially'' not for personal attacks that link to their Steam profiles. I have removed it from the page. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  06:07, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::: It seems that the discussion isn't only about custom maps anymore. Please move it to the [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Discussion|main wiki discussion]].
 +
::: I'm not against removing bad "articles", but this approach of deleting everything seems harsh. I've personally seen articles on custom MvM missions used to help coordinate players on some Potato's servers.
 +
::: One thing we can't deny is that Valve's support isn't here anymore, you can't use "this is community-created content" as an excuse anymore. Whether we like it or not, community content is what's keeping the game "alive". — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] [[Help:Group rights#Moderators|<span class="locbg">lm</span>]][[Help:Language_translation|<span class="locbg">(pt-br)</span>]] 10:44, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::: If we are to keep articles on custom content, how do we decide whether something is worthy of having an article or not? Many custom map pages are nothing more than an infobox, a few images, and a line or two of text. Do you think we should keep those? What about pages like [[Construction Theme]] that are of barely any significance? I agree that custom MVM mission pages can be useful, but I don't see any reason to keep custom map pages to be honest. Perhaps we can keep the custom MVM missions if the pages adhere to certain guidelines, to avoid ending up with unfinished low-quality pages, like we have with custom maps. Keeping some articles and deleting others without coming up with a set of requirements for them might come across as picking favourites, in my opinion. Please excuse me if my messages look like an angry rant, I didn't get much sleep and I still haven't had my morning tea. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  11:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::::There's been a lack of solid guidelines in regard to custom content on the Wiki, and it appears that those guidelines never were written down and that the current criteria is inconsistent. To my knowledge, such guidelines weren't needed at the time as it wasn't of much importance, but due to the recent highlights of the subject something needs to be done about it.
 +
 
 +
:::::I wouldn't be entirely against removing all custom maps, though it would be rather unfortunate, as some of them (like Tark mentioned) does have some sort of value in terms of coordination/documentation. Perhaps if we were to write a policy on custom maps we could determine whether a map has enough significance to be allowed to stay/removed, though this would send us back to square 1, so it needs to be done right this time.
 +
 
 +
:::::While the page for user-created wallpapers doesn't contribute much besides being a place where users can share their wallpapers with the rest of the community, I don't see any reason to delete it; it's merely an easy-to-access page that provides the users of the Wiki (or outside the Wiki) with high-res wallpapers, and yes I'm aware most of those wallpapers can be found on TF2's website as well.
 +
 
 +
:::::Regarding that trivia entry, I'm honestly surprised that no one has caught up on that until now. Naming and shaming is definitely not allowed here on the Wiki, and I sincerely apologize if any witch-hunts occured against anyone mentioned in the entry. [[File:User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png|10px|link=]]&nbsp;[[User:Wookipan|<span style="color:#db9c1f">'''Wookipan'''</span>]] <small>([[User_talk:Wookipan|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wookipan|contribs]])</small> 14:57, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
::::::Basically what Wookipan said, except that I don't know of any maps that should be kept. There's also the comp wiki for any comp players out there looking for competitive maps info, and they can probably cover it better than us. I'm all for custom stuff on the wiki, but it does need some guidelines. (Also the criticism directed at the wiki for not deleting [[Netherlands]] was completely unjustified as I'm 99% sure it just wasn't noticed)<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 15:18, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:::::::Well, now knowing a bit more on what happened, I'll give my thoughts regarding custom maps being on the Wiki or not. I vote for keeping only custom maps that has been from a community-contest, a campaign (like potato.tf ones), or has been mentioned on the official blog (such as tr_walkaway), as well maps that are the "non-halloween" version of official maps, such as [[Gravestone]]'s original map [[Rumble]]. Maps that haven't been in any competition, community-content or anything, discard. For example, I don't know why we have [[Final Destination 2015|this map on the Wiki]]. However, there's some pros and cons. I think we shouldn't remove all the custom maps because of the vulgarities and the events that happened recently, but we should take an action on the most logical decision, this is an Official Wiki, so having a Custom Maps section is sure questioning for some. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:11, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
{{outdent|7}}Keeping some custom maps wouldn't hurt, I guess. As long as we make sure that we write down a set of requirements for the maps that are to be kept on the Wiki, and stick to them. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  17:41, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:: In patrolling, I have seen a few pages about ''unreleased'' Custom maps deleted for non-notability (I use the qualifier "unreleased" out of necessity, since the wiki uses the term both [[:Category:Custom maps|broadly]] and [[:Template:Custom Map Nav|narrowly]] to mean ''released'' Custom maps). Among the comments was the argument that an unreleased Custom map needed to have at least placed in a map competition; a problem here is that the only competitions that can result in a Custom map winning but remaining unreleased are unofficial, and so, arguably out of the scope of the official wiki. ''That said'', I accept other editors (seemingly?) accepting such maps from such competitions. 
 +
:: There are a few non-competitive maps that are more notable and influential than "contest winners" in so much as not only are they played much more often (at least historically) than the "contest winners", they have spawned many variants in the community. I am thinking specifically of [[Achievement Idle]], [[Trade Plaza]], [[Orange X]], and, maybe, [[Trade Minecraft]] (popular, but no article, yet). If we have accepted articles discussing [[Glossary of player terms#Achievement server|Achievement servers]], [[Glossary of player terms#Idle server|Idle servers]], and [[Glossary of player terms#Trading server|Trading servers]], we could justify having articles about popular maps on those servers.
 +
:: A personal issue I have with the state the unreleased Custom maps pages is that many if not most of them are [[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] that have remained so for years. IMO, these stub tags pollute the Stubs category, possibly discouraging work on higher priority articles. This is why I created [[:Category:Custom maps unreleased stubs]], which I need to finished populating (I was hoping a new editor would pick it up). These are the general rules I have applied or seen applied:
 +
:: '''Criteria for accepting articles on unreleased Custom Maps:''' Should qualify under one or more:
 +
::* Exceptionally notable in its own right; e.g., [[Walkway]], [[Trainsawlaser]](?) (There was another one I thought I saw mentioned, that was sort of a prototype for some game mode or other)  IMO, there is nothing wrong about having discussions on notability on individual maps like these. Mind you, I could imagine that what is notable to the present set of active editors could be quite different from other player.
 +
::* Very popular, presently or historically, both in playtime and derivative maps; e.g., [[Achievement Idle]]  ([https://teamwork.tf/community/map-stats#topavgplayerofficial Map Statistics] as a measure? Is there an archive?)
 +
::* Normal versions of ''released'' [[Halloween map]]s, Invasion maps, etc.
 +
::* Contest winners; e.g., Canteen Crasher stuff, but then there is the matter of which contests are worthy ...
 +
::* Mention in multiple "game journals of record"; (I have no idea what those journals may be, just spit-balling here)
 +
::''and'' be reasonably complete/stable (placing in a competition is a reasonable measure of completion): the map should ''not'' be just something that someone is working on. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 22:03, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
::''and'' conform to [[Help:Style guide/Maps|Maps style]]. [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' oOOOOo oo oo  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 01:46, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
Surprised this topic has come up again. It's probably worth noting that we've been stuck on this for a while now. Also for other third party content entirely like 3rd party websites. I gave up and started the discussion that lead to the [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Policies#Community_websites]] policy. If it's becoming a problem again it might be worth considering something similar. I have no input on the matter personally because I'm only experienced with custom maps in the sense of server rotations and numerical/prop related stuff. My suggestion with things like this - and kind of more in line with the wiki mission - is if you go this route, prefer to translate the pages into useful general documentation of the modding support where you can, and note omnipresent community stuff where needed. -- [[User:Lagg|Lagg]] [[File:Backpack_Stickybomb_Launcher.png|24px|link=User_talk:Lagg]] 19:57, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Regarding mechanics that are only found through community-made stuff. ==
 +
 
 +
So... a while ago, I added a mechanic featured on the Huntsman that, when upgraded with Projectile Penetration upgrade, it can penetrate enemy's Projectile Shielded Medics (a trait that only happens with the Huntsman, as other weapons, upgraded or not, does not go through the shield). While this is true, I don't think there's Robot Medics with shields on official maps or missions. So, what can we do about this? Should we detail as an Unused content on the [[Projectile Shield]] page? And explain from there what can or cannot penetrate the shield from there?<br>
 +
I think the latter should be the more ideal way to explain on the Wiki. We already have information regarding the unused [[Vaccinator]] shields being unused only on official maps, but they still work 100% on community-made missions. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:29, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
:That's actually quite interesting, and I feel like explaining it in the Unused Content section would be the best course of action. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  14:56, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Categories for translated picture files ==
 +
 
 +
Here are 2 translated pictures which are used on [[Mechanics/zh-hans]]. But I don't know if I should add "zh-hans" to their categories as well. <br />
 +
Please let me know which way is correct or better, and I will do the same for other translated pictures in the future.
 +
* [[file:Damagefalloff_zh-hans.png|120px]]
 +
* [[file:CritHitChance_zh-hans.png|120px]]
 +
[[File:User Dereko Name.png|75px|link=User:Dereko]] 10:03, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
:The [[Help:Language translation|Language Translation Guide]] says that the language code should be added to categories, but it doesn't mention anything about files. I think it's ok to add /zh-hans to their categories for now. If it turns out that it's not supposed to be done with files, then we can just remove it, no problem. [[File:Killicon flaming huntsman.png|75px|link=]] <span color: #333333">'''[[User:VasyaTheWizard|VasyaTheWizard]]'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:VasyaTheWizard|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/VasyaTheWizard|contributions]])</sup>  10:07, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 +
{{Quotation|'''Dereko''' is thanking '''Vasya''' for help, with good cheer.|Thank you!|sound=Medic thanks01.wav}}
 +
 
 +
== Madness vs. Machine content on the wiki  ==
 +
With the imminent launch of Madness vs. Machines, I suppose it's time to discuss about this project that involves adding Madness vs. Machine content. Currently, several people (also from Potato's Custom MvM Servers), including myself, are making mission infoboxes such as this one [[Template:Mvm_mission_Covert_Compromise|this mission (which is of course, made by yours truly)]], as well as their respective pages (be it missions or maps). This is why for the past few weeks, there's been custom MvM-related activity going on.
 +
 
 +
As of writing, ''over half of the mission infoboxes'' (which is one of the most tedious tasks in making an MvM mission page) are already finished (and hopefully matches the quality of those used by official missions), which is significant compared to previous events hosted by Potato's, where their pages on the wiki are incomplete or missing. I personally intend to complete this project ''before 2019 ends'', despite its large scale. I am also aware the dispute of whether or not custom MvM content should even be included in the wiki in the first place, but since too much progress has already been made, the project is better off being continued.
 +
 
 +
Since this project wouldn't go unnoticed, I do want to ask any guidelines or advice regarding the implemention of custom MvM content, as simply putting all of it here without a word will certainly cause misunderstanding, one way or another. One possible issue that I do want to focus on is whether or not custom MvM content should be separated from official MvM content in regards to categories.  --[[User:Bot Rot|Bot Rot]] ([[User talk:Bot Rot|talk]]) 15:52, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
:This is related to the custom content on the wiki stuff, we can't speak for that yet because staff are still discussing it, but it's best to keep it on your user space for now so you can reference it anywhere you want. And if it turns out it won't be allowed, you can simply keep it there. If it will be allowed, we move it there.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 16:35, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Inconsistency among Halloween cosmetic/item set pages ==
 +
* On the page of [[Squid's Lid]], there is an addtional line in "Item set" section leading to [[Item sets]], while on [[Vampiric Vesture]] there isn't.
 +
 
 +
* Different descriptions for the image in "Gallery" section:
 +
<gallery>
 +
File:Steam workshop thumbnail for dr. acula.jpg|Steam Workshop banner for the Dr. Acula set.<br />(from [[Dr. Acula]])
 +
File:Cursedcaptain workshop.png|The image that accompanied the item set on the steam workshop.<br />(from [[Cursed Captain]])
 +
File:Steam workshop thumbnail for the sun king.png|Steam Workshop thumbnail for the Sun King set<br />(from [[Sun King]])
 +
</gallery>
 +
 
 +
Dereko thinks it's neccessary to unify them , what's your opinions?
 +
 
 +
[[File:User Dereko Name.png|75px|link=User:Dereko]] 08:27, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
: Personally I think it should be only "Steam Workshop thumbnail for the [set name]", because that's what the regular pages follow too.
 +
: The first point is because it got recently updated in the Item set template itself, so just remove any instance of that.<br>[[User:GrampaSwood|GrampaSwood]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|talk]]) 08:56, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Broadening the definition of Event ==
 +
 
 +
... or something like that; maybe "[[Holiday]]".
 +
 
 +
Folks on IRC seemed reluctant to start an article to cover the on-going Halloween celebration. Generally, IIRC, the opposition was that we can't start an Update article until the Update is released.  I was never proposing writing anything about the expected Update. (Why would I suggest that? There is nothing to write about.) Others suggested that there was no event yet because there was no Update yet (cf. [[Scream Fortress IX]]?).
 +
 
 +
As far as an example of us starting an article to report activities ''before'' any actual Update, I offer the example of the [[Jungle Inferno Update]]; that article was started with the first Blog Post on the 16th, the Update didn’t occur until the 20th. All of the Halloween update articles cover ''both'' the Update Patch and the Event. I am not saying to report on anything that has not happened yet, only report on what is actually happening. I am not saying to have some half-ass incomplete article, I am saying to have something that completely covers what is known, rather than ignoring it because it is different than what we expect.  We seem stuck on calling something an Event only if it starts with a Patch (admittedly very clean and convenient definition), in spite of knowing features of Events can start and stop without Patches. 
 +
 
 +
What we know: {{md}} There was an in-game announcement. {{md}} Halloween-restricted cosmetics were activated immediately (We used to call '''''that''''' a [[Holiday]]!) (That used to be ''all we had'' for Halloween!) {{md}} Soul Gargoyle kill counting started. {{md}} Past Halloween maps were added to the Casual menu.  {{md}} There was an assurance made that there will be an Update with contracts and new community content.
 +
 
 +
What we don't know: {{md}} When the Update will happen {{md}} What valve will call the Update {{md}} Whether the  content will be maps or cosmetics or anything else.
 +
 
 +
We also know people have come to the wiki looking for some idea what is going on (why haven't I gotten a Soul Gargoyle yet?) and only see us ignoring the Event.
 +
 
 +
This pattern of Holiday is likely to be repeated, and we should consider how to handle it.
 +
 
 +
I say, pick a title, knowing full-well that Valve can pick its own later.  I suggest [[Scream Fortress 2019]] simply because that is close to the pattern of recent event. Maybe you prefer the title of the announcement? You know what, if that title doesn't work out after the actual Patch, we just change it, this is a wiki, wikis work like that.
 +
 
 +
All the content it needs is just the facts, especially details we have seen that were not covered in the announcement. Nothing more than "On October 2, Valve announced in-game that "Halloween has begun!" On that day, [[Holiday#Halloween|Halloween-restricted cosmetics]] were activated game-wide and [[Soul Gargoyle]]s started counting souls on all maps. Past [[Halloween map]]s were also added to the Casual Mode menu. [[Halloween Contracts]] have not been activated yet and Soul Gargoyles have not yet dropped to new players. No date has been indicated for the Contracts or content Update."
 +
 
 +
[[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small>  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 02:11, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
 
 +
== Major updates and content packs ==
 +
 
 +
Hi, I'd like to bring a new topic - as the title says, it's about major updates and content packs
 +
 
 +
TF2 is in a cycle where the only updates it gets is holiday-based updates, and their features are as it follows - New cosmetics, few bugfixes, and in case of halloween some non-permanent maps and the same set of contracts with minor changes to it.
 +
<br>The issue here is that any holiday update - be it Smissmas or Halloween (or even last summer "update") is considered a major, when it is clearly not, even if Valve may say otherwise - I've also wanted to add that I'm mainly speaking of recent updates (those being from Meet your Match update in 2016 up to now) but not all the other previous holiday updates and such necessarily, as say Smissmas 2010 could be considered a major update, and this is where I get into another thing I want to bring up - just what should we consider a major update and a content pack?
 +
 
 +
First, let's start off by defining major update - In my view it is an update that fullfills the following criteria:
 +
<br>a) Impacts or changes gameplay/an aspect of it
 +
<br>b) Adds new permanent content that is not necessarily cosmetic (ie it can be maps)
 +
<br>c) Adds new features (given that major updates almost exclusively add new features or quality of life improvements, for example minimalized viewmodels) or change already existing features
 +
 
 +
What constitutes a content pack in my view (and which could be a good starting point)
 +
<br>a) New cosmetic items or addition of other items that can be considered cosmetic or part of customization (skins, hats, taunts)
 +
<br>b) (Exclusive to holiday content packs) Non-permanent content (ie Halloween maps that are only available for duration of the event or contract set that is locked for a time peroid; although the latter is also sort of an exception if we'd be speaking of old contracts that were time-limited before JI reworked the way they worked, but it is fair to presume that any new major update with new contract set would make them permanent at a later date, akin to JI contract pass.)
 +
 
 +
There are of course some exceptions to this: [[Blue Moon Pack]] could be considered major since it did impact gameplay via its balance changes, it did introduce several new features/quality of life improvements and reworked an entire competitive mode, at least certain aspects of it. However it did not add permanent content, other than cosmetics. Other exception would be old Smissmas updates, for example [[Australian Christmas|Smissmas 2010]], as it did add new gamemode + map (so new permanent content), weapons and some balance changes (which impacts gameplay), added new features/quality of life improvements (itemtest and associated things with it, an ability to expand backpack).
 +
 
 +
And to finish - I would and we should not define an update off what Valve says, as in actual reality what Valve considers major is not really reflected in what the update in the question features.
 +
<br> tl;dr: We need to start marking updates as content or major update by their merit/features and not by what Valve says; We should change/reevaluate recent updates (starting with Halloween 2016 up to now) to whether they are major or just content packs, as well as clearly define as to what we consider content pack and a major update. [[User:Goodjob|Goodjob]] ([[User talk:Goodjob|talk]]) 14:14, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
: I would also want to add how [Patches#MU]] and [[Patches#CP]] are categorized differently than [[Template:Major_Updates_Nav]] (both Nav and patches page should show same things). If we want to categorise updates like Valve does we can use [http://www.teamfortress.com/history.php] and then put every other update in Content Packs. Also about newest "Major updates" : Smissmass 2018 isnt considered major by Valve and it added same ammount of content as normal content pack (1 case, that's it). Scream Fortess XI is even worse, it wasn't even mentioned on TF2 Blog (only in updates tab). Every "major update" since Jungle Inferno added ONLY community made content (excluding 2 Valve made taunts) such as temporary-Halloween maps, cosmetics, unusual effects and warpaints.<br>[[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]][[User:Fiat Seicento|FiatSeicento]][[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]] 14:33, 12 October 2019 (UTC)Fiat Seicento
 +
 
 +
:: I think y'all have seen me circling around the same topic on a different tack. Distinguishing  [[Holiday]], [[Halloween event]]/Scream Fortress, <o>[[Halloween mode]]</o>, and Major Updates. Valve, on occasion at least, calls Halloween an Event.
 +
 
 +
:: To the definition I would add "on or more of the following features" and add the following points:
 +
::: d) [[Storyline]] media
 +
::: e) Promotional [[ARG]]
 +
::: f) Promotional lead up, whether Update Pages, blog posts, or in-game announcements (@FiatSeicento< IMO, the SFXI in-game announcement and lead-in Halloween "mode" activation count at least as much as blog posts. I think active players are more likely to see the in-game announcements.)
 +
 
 +
:: We have overloaded "Major Update" with "Event" because past Events came with significant Updates.  Even in 2017, Halloween was a major ''Event'' in that it was widely anticipated and spiked severe activity. But as an Update, it looked like nothing, ''unless'' you see SFIX as an extension of the MAJOR Jungle Inferno -- if you look at it that way, SFIX is, by association, mush less trivia. 
 +
:: But if you don't see it that way, and say that there should be no Update page for SFIX, then you would not have the default place to describe the Major Halloween Event of SFIX.
 +
:: I have been slowly working on the Halloween Event/Update pages to clearly express that they cover both the Event and Patch aspects of how Valve and the Community play on Halloween. 
 +
:: gtg, my College-age daughter wants to watch a movie with Daddy!!!
 +
:: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small>  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 18:10, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::I think we need to make [[Event]] or [[Events]] page to straighten things up. My definitions:
 +
:::*[[Holidays]] (imo) are certain types of Events that happen annualy in certain time of a year such as: Halloween (not to confuse with Scream Fortress which is update that happens usually at the beginning of Halloween, proven this year its not same thing), Smissmass and Birthday. I didnt counted Saxxies, because they happen annualy (excluding 2017) but not in certain time of year.
 +
:::*Events are uhhh. Certain time when somethings work, but wont if event ended? I dunno. But heres list of events: Holidays ofc, Saxxies, campaign related events (Jungle inferno campaign (contracts still work, but badges were event-exclusive), Invasion (Invasion Community Update Coin worked for some time), Duck Journal event, Gun Mettle and Though Break campaigns and exc.)
 +
:::*Halloween mode is uh mode of server? Like Birthday mode its enabled by deafult at certain time and can be forced by commands. Also that Halloween enabling item.
 +
:::*Major updates and Content Packs. Content Pack is ofc anything other than normal update that adds new thing(s). Major update is (technically) very big content pack that usually has something released along with it. But wheres the border? First 3 major updates are size of content packs. Smissmass 2018 added only 1 crate but despite this on page and Nav it shows up as major update. Blue moon pack added 1 crate, tweaked weapons and reworked competetive but is still listed as content pack. We need clear definition telling us when update is content pack or rather major update.<br>[[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]][[User:Fiat Seicento|FiatSeicento]][[Image:Killicon_hhg.png|15px|link=User:Fiat Seicento]] 21:09, 12 October 2019 (UTC)Fiat Seicento
 +
 
 +
::::: '''[[Holiday]]''' may be in part a wiki construct; but, the Valve term is [[Holiday Restriction]], as appears in the item descriptions. Valve has three Holiday Restrictions, "Winter Holiday", "TF Birthday", and "Halloween / Full Moon" (Valentine's Day doesn't count?). So, Valve identifies 3 + 13 annual Holidays, give or take.  On this basis (specifically) I see no need to change [[Holiday]].
 +
::::: '''Event''': Valve additionally applies the term "[http://www.teamfortress.com/blizzbobarrabas/ "Scream Fortress '''event''']" to the collective Halloween activations, which ''over time'' have become ''much'' more than just activation of [[Holiday Restriction]]. But, practically, Valve uses "event" for any special time-limited variation in the game including community activities.
 +
:::::: '''[[Campaigns]]''' are (were?) events with Contracts with premium buy-ins?
 +
::::: '''[[Halloween mode]]''' as a term is mainly a wiki construct. Essentially, the present content of the page is covered between [[Holiday#Halloween]] and [[Halloween event]].  IMO, the only reason to keep [[Halloween mode]] as a distinct page is to change it to an article devoted to <code>tf_forced_holiday</code> and expand it to cover all of the holiday settings.
 +
::::: '''Content Packs''': I really don't know the history of the Content Packs section of [[Patches]]; I wonder if at one time these were all under Major Updates until Valve started calling certain content Patched "Packs" and "Content Packs".
 +
::::: '''Major Updates''': It only thing that seems to be a distinction from Content Pack is that a "Major Update" was also (usually) an "Event", that is, there was something different and time-limited going on in the game ''OR'' there was some [[ARG]], Storyline, or Update lead up (pages, announcements).  It looks like the wiki calls it an "Update" if either Valve Calls it an Update or it is a Holiday content patch. '''"Event" activation aside, SFXI is a bigger, more major content update than either the [[Haunted Hallowe'en Special]] or the [[Pyro Update]] (if those two are "Major", then so is SFXI).  (but [[Summer Event 2013]] was an "Event"?)''' 
 +
::::: '''''Maybe a partial solution''''' is to Move the ''Holiday'' Patches (because they sometimes minor but are always Events) into into [[Patches#Halloween]], [[Patches#Winter Holiday]], and maybe [[Patches#TF Birthday]] -- then no one will ever care again about whether they are "Major" or not.
 +
::::: [[User:Mikado282|<span style="font-family: Impact"><font color="70B04A">'''M I K A D O 282'''</font></span><span style="font-family: Arial "><font color="70B04A">''' <small>🎃</small>🎃🎃🎃🎃<small>🎃  🎃🎃  🎃🎃</small>  '''</font></span>]] ([[User_talk:Mikado282|'''''talk''''']]) ([[User:Mikado282/Help Wanted!|'''''Help Wanted!''''']]) 17:26, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
 +
:::::: I think that both "Major Updates" and "Content Packs" should be merged into one group just called "Updates". They may be major or not, they may be content packs or not, but in some regard, they are Updates, more than your regular "Patch". Maybe the name "Updates" could be something else, but I think we should consider merging them into something. [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 18:18, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:18, 13 October 2019

Contents

Are we hosting April Fools this year?

I know that it's 3 months early to be talking about this topic, but is an April Fools event going to be hosted this year? I'd love it if one is; because I've actually already prepared a draft of the patch notes that are open to the public here. They're set for Open Review, the summary has said nothing but to edit them and help to expand, and I want this event to happen. SkyTBM; inexperienced TF2 Coach, seeking out for the greater good. (talk) 16:55, 4 January 2017 (PST)

Hi. Keep in mind that a simple update page will not be enough, we would need real content. I have tried to revive this project since 2015 but I failed both times, sadly, last year we managed to get together and gather some interesting ideas, but we did not succeed because of lack of content. Anyway, if you want to see our ideas and the update notes from last year please click here and here. — Tark lm(pt-br) 23:18, 5 January 2017 (PST)
Yeah, I know Patch Notes won't be enough. Luckily, I wasn't planning for just patch notes. I have links on the page to content pages (such as weapons and taunts). Not created yet, but that's what I need help with. SkyTBM added the preceding potato comment. (Talk more about potatoes | Contribs) 17:40, 7 January 2017 (PST)

Sometimes my edit bar has a seizure.

Here's what it looks like https://youtu.be/ZlFXMp1MAAE

Not a common occurrence, but definitely also not rare. Anyar (talk) 10:02, 20 February 2017 (PST)

From what I have experienced, the "edit bar" automatically adjusts when it can't fit everything in your current browser window. I have come across this once before if you make the window full screen / reload the page it should go away. If not, try closing your browser entirely, then open it back up again. The program isn't perfect. User Twolfe Signature.png || twolfe's page || twolfe's talk page 10:08, 20 February 2017 (PST)
Oh. I often switch between a 1920x1080 monitor and a 1366x768 one. That must be it. Thanks! Anyar (talk) 11:05, 20 February 2017 (PST)

Sometimes my wiki layout messes up.

Unlike the edit bar seizure, this one has only been happening recently, and doesn't seem to be limited to one monitor resolution.

Usually it looks like this: [1] Rarely, it changes to this, often when I refresh the page, get an error, and refresh again. [2]

What is this? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anyar (talk) • (contribs)

The wiki is currently experiencing some internal errors, which is why the formatting breaks. 40pxWkPn (Talk | contribs) 05:54, 21 February 2017 (PST)
Not just me then? Yeah, this happens after the page saying there's internal errors. Anyar (talk) 06:05, 21 February 2017 (PST)
This encounters fairly regularly since Valve is neglecting the tf wiki and its servers. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 06:12, 21 February 2017 (PST)

Romanian translators anyone?

Are there any romanian translators out there that are still active and willing to give me a hand?I mean, I don't know if you guys have noticed, but there seems to be a lack of my kind around these parts... -- Je love prajitura :D (talk) 09:58, 20 March 2017 (PDT)

Hello. A lot of languages are lacking translators. We'd be much obliged if you contribute to the Romanian section or recruit more translators. There's no active Romanian translator despite you currently. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 10:22, 20 March 2017 (PDT)

Where do people get the class images from?

For each cosmetic's article, the gallery contains images for each of the 9 classes, all wearing the cosmetic. Where did they get that image from? Or, how did they make it? ⇒Leaderboard class spy.png Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 13:33, 16 April 2017 (PDT)

Those images are usually created with HLMV, please see Help:Model Viewer for more information. 40pxWkPn (Talk | contribs) 14:00, 16 April 2017 (PDT)
Oh, thanks. I didn't manage to check for your reply, sorry for late response. ⇒Leaderboard class spy.png Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 16:16, 21 April 2017 (PDT)

What is A TF2 Community?

Hello, I am New to this group And I think i have all my solutions to TF2 Here, But for Now I just wanted to ask What is A TF2 Community How can i join one? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Trump (talk) • (contribs)

The tf2 community is simply the name of all the fans and the things related to tf2 that aren't ingame. Padacuw (talk) 18:29, 20 June 2017 (PDT)

Should we delete unused user page files from long-gone users?

A rather sizable number of wiki users haven't been on since 2013 at the latest, and have many unused user page files. Should we delete these files?

Jboby1 (talk) 15:48, 3 September 2017 (PDT)

What if they come back?
I'm fine with deleting talk pages for users who are inactive and don't have a user page, or just the user page of anyone who has been inactive for years and only has a few edits (that were all made within the same timespan).
In other words I'm mostly against user pages that took a lot of effort to make, because it'd be discouraging to come back and find that gone. Thoughts? ⇒Leaderboard class spy.png Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 17:01, 3 September 2017 (PDT)
Pictogram minus.png Oppose Sometimes They Come Back ... (How come I didn't get one of those "He has risen!" do-hickies, TidB? (oh, riiiiight) ;) ... Really, it doesn't hurt anything to leave it all up, there is no valuable benefit to deleting, and it takes labor to decide if the page really should be saved or not, so on the whole, no I see not justification to delete. There is the tradition and policy that no one edits someone else's user space as long as it is conforming to the wiki's policy, and there was no Delete if Inactive Policy at the time of posting. Moreover, Anyar, the one thing that should never be deleted is Talk space, as it is the most formal record of collaboration, and IMO, the oldest records of collaboration are the more valuable, more so if the participants are now inactive. Yes, I know there is a lot of junk images, but that is a matter of opinion, and a lot of just simply unused images, but in the latter only the OP (or admin with cause) should delete it, and under the license, I'm not event sure that is proper. Mikado282 (talk) 19:27, 3 September 2017 (PDT)
I meant the talk pages with the only content being the autowiki bot's welcome message. Don't the pages take up space or something? ⇒Leaderboard class spy.png Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 12:23, 4 September 2017 (PDT)
This wiki runs on a toaster with lots of space. The deletions could theoretically be worse than having those pages. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 08:05, 5 September 2017 (PDT)

I think you all are misunderstanding my question. I'm asking if we should delete the files that were uploaded by a long-gone user for their userpage, but were never used, or are no longer used. Im not saying we should delete entire userpages.

Jboby1 (talk) 20:31, 3 September 2017 (PDT)

Those unused user files don't hurt as long as they're named correctly. If you want you can of course flag them for deletion if they're unused, but I wouldn't suggest to waste time on it. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 01:05, 4 September 2017 (PDT)

Team Fortress discord server

I am currently in the process of making a tf wiki discord server that wiki contributors can talk and discuss things similar to the irc. i am asking for ideas that can be used for the discord server. any ideas that are part of the final server will be listed in a special chat along with the person who came up with said idea. i am also looking someone who could make a logo for the discord server. i am not sure when i will release it but when i do (thats if i ever do) i will announce it in a new discussion along with a link to join it. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Neon man909 (talk) • (contribs)

I'm not sure if that's needed. Personally I like Discord better, but when I proposed the idea of moving from IRC to Discord I got completely shot down. Apparently the differences are that Discord has a cleaner and fancier UI, but IRC has better customization and all that.
FYI you made the same topic twice so I deleted the second one. ⇒Leaderboard class spy.png Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 07:07, 8 October 2017 (PDT)
It would probably support your argumentation to present a pro/contra list, since staff doesn't see much pro's in Discord over IRC. — shots fired by: Nikno {Talk | Contribs} 22:48, 8 October 2017 (PDT)

Multi-Class images

I've been thinking about multi-class images. I feel like we should just have one class in the infobox, like the all-class images.

Having 2-4 classes all standing next to each other looks kind of messy and squashes the image too much.

For example, the Deadliest Duckling just has one class. If we had just one class, I feel as if it would be neater and more consistent with everything else User Bojjob Userlink.png 02:36, 14 October 2017 (PDT)

Pictogram plus.png Support Sounds good. — Tark lm(pt-br) 06:32, 15 October 2017 (PDT)
Socked and Loaded.png
Pictogram neutral.png Neutral Multi-class images (e.g. the one to the right) look alright to me, but so does the one for Deadliest Duckling. Your call. ⇒Leaderboard class spy.png Anyar (talk/contributions/giveaway) 07:01, 15 October 2017 (PDT)
Pictogram plus.png Support I like the idea. However, I think the limit should be at least two classes. 35pxWkPn (Talk | contribs) 07:55, 17 October 2017 (PDT)
Pictogram comment.png Comment How about a slow transition between single-class images. MediaWiki has an extension that does exactly this. Brightgalrs (talk) 14:36, 26 October 2017 (PDT)

Voice actor link proposal

If a voice actor has a Wikipedia page, link to that (with [[wikipedia:<NAME>|<NAME>]]) instead of IMDB. This would affect all articles about characters with voice actors as well as Voice actors. Brightgalrs (talk) 14:43, 26 October 2017 (PDT)

Skins and Stranges

Valve's addition to weapon retextures to Team Fortress 2 did seemingly spark some controversy at first, with TF:GO spreading rapidly, and it has been mostly accepted by the community. But did Valve really incorporate this in a way that will benefit their users? I'm not whining about the need to buy keys to open reward crates received through contracts after getting a pass for them, but I do want to address the topic of strange items, stat-clocks and strangifiers and how they 'interact' with war paints and skinned items. To get the topic out of the way, the addition of the civilian grade clock to add strange qualities to your 'common' skins was a nice idea, sure, let's add some value and desire to the lower end of the skin spectrum, but not adding them for the other 'not crate' grades is quite strange. In my opinion, this lack additions decreases value from all other grades of skins, aside from ones which can aquire strange status through key requiring crates. For example, why should I buy or try to obtain a war paint for my scattergun to change its visual appearance if I cannot put it on my strange variant? It seems like a waste, especially considering people will be purchasing war paints to put on their favourite weapons which are likely in strange quality, and few people are going to want to turn down their Hales Own rocket launcher for a default rocket launcher with a changed texture. I believe, to fix this, war paints should either be usable with strange weapons, or, stat clocks should be added for freelance and mercenary grades alongside the civilian grade, to make these variants of weapons more appealing to the community (heads up Valve, this means community market purchases! Yay!).

Who knows, maybe it's just me. But I'm sure that it would be a great addition to the game, considering the past few major updates have included new items which would benefit greatly from said change. Who knows, another somewhat minor update with some additions may also breathe some more life back into the trading community.

Thanks for reading my post. Opinions and feedback would be warmly welcomed, preferably without a side of salt or death threats. Thanks, EJB9 (talk) 08:38, 11 November 2017 (PST)

Difficulty logging in

So far, I have only been able to log in on mobile after much refreshing. I have been unable to log in on desktop and pages take a while to load.

Every attempt to log in results in an error message, “Team Fortress Wiki uses cookies to log in users. You have cookies disabled. Please enable them and try again.”

In addition, average number of edits per day seem to have gone down dramatically over the past three days.

User Upgrade Signature.png 17:14, 20 November 2017 (PST)

We have experienced this on and off again the last couple years. The senior editors seem to understand it a bit better than I.
Preview seems greatly slowed this time.
Yes, I have used mobile editing as a workaround to the log on issue. On the desktop, when repeating the login attempts does not get around the false cookie issue, opening the wiki in another window sometimes shows that I am logged in even though the first window is telling me to try again.
A couple months back, when this was really bad, ICS noticed it and told me that they would talk with somebody at Valve, and overnight, things greatly improved (coincidence?) in time for a few weeks of pre-Halloween editing.
Now that the Jungle Infrerno Update is dying down .... Mikado282 (talk) 05:15, 21 November 2017 (PST) 11:09, 21 November 2017 (PST)
The tip I forgot: Using the "keep me logged in" option avoids the log in problem, once you get in. Just take pains to not forget you password through the resulting non-use. Mikado282 (talk) 11:09, 21 November 2017 (PST)

Teamfortresswiki discord server

Hi, for the past 3-4 months on and off i have been working on a tfwiki discord server, atm it is prety basic, but i would like some people to join and maybye give feedback, help out and just is genral be helpful. Even though it is not necessary to make such server, i have been bored and its been a fun journey so far

https://discord.gg/DZmKRNN

Neon man909 (talk) 05:31, 14 January 2018 (PST)

Hi there,

It appears that you have created this kind of topic before, which has already been discussed; see TFW:Discussion#Team Fortress discord server. I'd also recommend you to take down said server, as it would be considered unofficial. Thanks. 30pxWkPn (Talk | contribs) 06:02, 14 January 2018 (PST)

How to make articles

I just joined the wiki, and I would like to know how to submit an article for the mod Lambda Fortress. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Youporkchop5 (talk) • (contribs)

Hello Porkchop :) I'd advice you to read about article creation either here or here. Have fun. PS: Don't forget to sign off your comments with 4 tildes. Faghetti V.2 (talk) 00:49, 22 January 2018 (PST)

How do you change the title of an infobox?

Hi, I am trying to translate the smissmas cosmetic articels into german but I dont know how to change the title of the infobox and were do you get the inventory pictures? When you take a picture of a cosmetic you didnt make can you still upload a picture of it? Timmy the mini (talk) 16:26, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

  1. I would connect with the Translation Community (I'm not there; I only translate English), but I think the autotranslation of the title in the infobox is sort of template-controlled.
  2. Inventory Pictures? not me. Usually I find that someone already has uploaded it, especially by the time you are translating.
  3. What you can upload: Help:Images Certainly anything under some sort of Valve license -- anything you see in the game. Are you worried about something you found on someone's Workshop page?
  4. Oh! Wait! Here! Help:Cosmetic Images.
Mikado282 (talk) 00:58, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Adapting Wikipedia Visual Editor

Is there a way to make it so we can edit using the Wikipedia Visual Editor? That would be a great way to edit easier. User BrofessorBeta SignaturePic.jpgBrofessorBeta (Talk | contribs) 16:56, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Error in the Wiki

For some reason, there is a floating "more" just below the arrow next to "view history", is this supposed to be there?

Portal Wiki Down?

For the last week, I've tried to acess the Portal wiki using the VWN link at the bottom of the main page. It appears to be down. Has this been happening for a while, or is it a new problem? Or, worse case scenario, is it not just down, but entirely defunct? Jboby1 (talk) 05:57, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Regarding this, I can confirm that thePortalWiki is still down. Someone please fix. I know I'm not active at all on the TF2Wiki anymore but I'm a moderator over there and want to keep working on things. ~Sven~ (talk) 22:23, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects

I have started a list List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects. This is in part for my own interests, but also as an orientation for new editors. The intention is to make this Team Fortress Wiki:List of Team Fortress Wikiprojects. I would appreciated comment. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (To Do) 23:09, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

TF2's Halloween Paintings

First post here, but anyone know how to get the Halloween paintings images? Or do we already have them archived here or something? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1544349505 is the type of stuff I'm talking about. I've been looking for this image for ages, but just now figured out where I remember it from (in-game obv). Is it possible to get the picture? Or maybe upload start a wiki page about the paintings Valve made for Halloween?

If you mean the actual file used for the painting, you could extract its texture from tf2_textures_dir.vpk Killicon baleful beacon.pngVasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 08:04, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
Here you go. I believe this was a texture extract, but I can look it for you later. Enjoy. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:12, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
As far as an archive goes, there is no Category AFAIK for textures as such. I wish there was a Category for all textures organized by source (sounds like a Project to me), but as it is, the many images that have been uploaded are scattered in many different categories under Category:Images. Were you only interested in the that one portrait? Other paintings uploaded from from Mann Manor are in Category:Mann Manor images. M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk) (To Do) 14:26, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Trivia related to original workshop description/names, as well "SFM Promo Images".

Hi, I've noticed an abundance of information regarding the original workshop submission since 2014 throughout today. For quite some time, information regarding the original workshop content weren't exactly valid trivia (save for a few, usually related to styles not included). However, I feel like most of these trivia related to the original desc/name should not be in here. I will separate them in each category, as well giving my view on each of them (if I support it, or not):


  • Pictogram comment.png Addition to Steam Workshop Thumbnails on the class gallery
    • Pictogram plus.png This has been a standard for quite some time now. It makes easier to extinguish Valve-made content from Community-made content just by scrolling to the gallery. I agree in keeping it.

  • Pictogram comment.png Addition to images featuring the Item Set ("SFM Promo") from Item Sets that were accepted officially (found on Item Sets only, does not count items that has the same theme, but doesn't have official item sets)
    • Pictogram plus.png I agree on the addition only for actually fully-accepted item sets. The image can be from the SFM promo artwork (usually found on a Item Set collection from the Workshop), and the image should only be included on the related Item Set page, and should not be added to each individual item page.

  • Pictogram comment.png Addition to images featuring the Item Set ("SFM Promo") from items that share similar looks / items that originated from a collection, but were not added as a full Item Set by Valve
    • Pictogram minus.png This one I vote for no, there are a ton of cosmetic items that were made to go with Item Sets, that simply got their items added separately, or got only few of the items accepted. Right now, the Wiki has some cosmetic pages with these images, while a lot of other does not have. It's very inconsistent right now, and I feel like these aren't really needed, one can just visit the Workshop submission to see those

  • Pictogram comment.png Addition to "SFM Promo Art" for any cosmetic item, not related to item sets or unofficial item sets
    • Pictogram minus.png Disagree. Again, this is really inconsistent across the Wiki, majority of the cosmetic pages does not have SFM Promo Item related to the cosmetic, while some, do. An example of one that has is the Vampire Vanquisher

  • Pictogram comment.png Trivia/Notes information regarding "This X Item was submitted along Y, Z items".
    • Pictogram minus.png Disagree. In the past, something similar was made regarding to this, there were a lot of Trivia based on original item sets from the workshop, but all of those were moved to Notes instead. It seems now that there's a whole batch of trivia information about the same thing, mostly because new users added to the Trivia, and not to a new Notes section. I vote for neither keeping on the Trivia, or the Notes page, considering the dense amount of cosmetics we now have on TF2, it would be just too much to edit or to add it in. I have other suggestions to mention the other similar items

  • Pictogram comment.png Add a new section called "Related Items" on cosmetic pages.
    • Pictogram plus.png Add a section below the Update History that includes links to related items from unofficial sets, this is not needed for official sets since these already have a table to go with.

  • Pictogram comment.png Trivia regarding old Workshop names and descriptions
    • Pictogram minus.png I disagree. This has been for quite some time not enforced as valid Trivia, but, it has been seeing a lot of amount of attention lately with the newer cosmetics. I think it's a bit of a stretch Trivia related to an item's original name, or description. Considering that those are community-created, the authors has any freedom to add what they want, while in-game... some names and descriptions requires changes to sometimes suit the game better, or to avoid copyright issues. Right now, there's way too much information regarding old workshop name/desc, way too much.

  • Pictogram comment.png Workshop "blurb" for cosmetic's quotation
    • Pictogram minus.png Disagree. This was rarely used in the past, and would only be used for few cases where no interesting voice lines could be used to a cosmetic, however, recently, a lot of the newer cosmetic pages have only the "blurb", and in most of times, it's from here where people make Trivias related to the original Workshop descriptions. I think it's better left without any quotation (in case no voice line was chosen), than to use the workshop "blurb".

Please leave your thoughts below on what you think, do you agree with the suggestions I made above, or do you have another look on those? If you agree on all the purposed changes, please add a comment with the Pictogram plus.png - ({{c|+|}}) attached to your comment, if not, add Pictogram minus.png - ({{c|-}}) instead. If you want to simply discuss or suggest something else, please use the Pictogram question.png - ({{c|?}}) for that.

Thank you. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 18:41, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

I broadly support Gabrielwoj's comments, so far as they apply to Cosmetics pages, as long as it is understood that Cosmetics pages aren't particularly my focus. Hoewever,
  • Pictogram comment.png Addition to Steam Workshop Thumbnails on the class gallery
  • Pictogram plus.png I didn't mind this, and assumed it acceptable, and also saw it as incidentally promoting the successful projects (e.g., Frontline and Mayann). A can accept that some can see this being abused, but haven't experienced that myself.
  • Pictogram comment.png Trivia regarding old Workshop names and descriptions
  • Pictogram minus.png I disagree. I didn't think this wasn't being enforced, I see such Trivia being deleted, and have deleted it when I caught it. Mind you, in this Event, I haven't monitored the new cosmetic pages, and I haven't checked the Jungle Inferno cosmetics for this violation.
  • Pictogram comment.png Add a new section called "Related Items" on cosmetic pages.
    • Pictogram minus.png I disagree. If I understand you correctly, you want to use such a section to show the relationship of items that were proposed as a set but set not released as a set. I don't see this as important enough to mention anywhere. If certain of such items are particularly famous, then links in See also could be sufficient.
  • Pictogram comment.png Workshop "blurb" for cosmetic's quotation
    • Pictogram plus.png I opposed a blanket prohibition of Workshop "blurb" for Cosmetics. OK, yes I may concede that using the Workshop "blurb" is an abusable "easy out". While I do not care for whole cloth copying of huge amount of Workshop blurb, I strongly oppose any suggestion that the quotations draw from voice lines only; IMO, any Valve content is acceptable as long as it conformed to Help:Style guide/Quotes. As long as it is a good Quotation, it is far better than an unrelated Voice line. Note, my exposure to the use of Workshop blurbs (limited to maps) is to selectively crop the best parts. To put a fine point on it, I see no necessity that a Voice line be part of a quotation. Certainly, Comic dialog should be acceptable.
M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk) (To Do) 14:36, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your views on it, very interesting takes.
To reply a few of your questions... The trivia/information about old name and desc has been scattered throughout a lot of pages, some even on the older item pages, while others in the more recent items. Example of an old item is... (well, it seems that was removed from time, it was on Scout Shako mentioning about the item's name and the original workshop description), while examples for new items are Athenian Attire, Hephaistos' Handcraft and Olympic Leapers.
About the See Also, I think it's okay right now, as you mentioned. However, I've seen some pages just putting cosmetic items that are from the same "hat type" or style, for example, Compatriot, most of the links there on See Also are simply due to an item having an "eagle" on it. I think we shouldn't do that and only focus as how you explained to us. The idea of "Related Items" should probably not be added, but we shouldn't also add too much on the "See Also" section.
I agree on your view on the blurbs. Although, I still see some pages which could have used quotes, but still goes with the blurb. I guess we could use the blurb for placeholders, until someone has a nice and creative quote to put it there. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 16:38, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
The quotes are an attractive nuisance; nubeditors think they do a service by adding one. I had assumed that nubs were just slaping weak at best viocelines on cosmetics, using the blurb for cosmeticts I haven't seen. Is that new to the SF2018 Cosmetics?
Sometimes the blurb is pretty good.
Aslo, nubs, if you are using a blurb, there is no rule saying you have to use the whole blurb. M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk) (To Do) 04:43, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
I see. But we still can use quotes from Official Videos or Comics, I've seen those before. There's a lot of variations to use it too. But yeah, blurbs has the advantage of being quick and able to use specific parts of it.
Yes, that's for the new SF2018 cosmetics, these are just an example, because there are several other examples throughout the Wiki.
I think we should get going with editing some of these stuff. So I guess we should start removing Trivia that originates from original Workshop name/desc, as well Trivia about "item sets"? User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 09:16, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Including "Action taunt" to each respective Class page.

Hey, something that always bothered me is the lack of taunts on the class pages, currently, "Action taunt" are only specified on update Navigation tables, and on the Taunts page, however, I believe there should be a table for the taunts available for a specific class, as well all-class taunts, and perhaps minimizing some of the information found on Taunts. My suggestions are:

  • Adding the information found on Taunts to each class page (the current table is fine, and could be directly exported to a class page, for example);
  • Rework the "Action taunts" section on the Taunts page to have a similar style table found on "List of Class cosmetic items".

Please leave your thoughts and suggestions below, thanks. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 20:58, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Team-Colored Styles section

Well, here's something else I've been thinking... There are some items that have a diverse amount of styles, but we currently do not show BLU color Styles. This is a problem for items like Duck Journal, which we just see the default BLU skin, and not all the rest of the duck skins. My suggestion is the following:

  • Modify the infobox template to include "Styles". So, for instance, Styles can show up at the infobox (similar on how it looks on Team Captain page), and differing by each team and style. In the case for Duck Journal, the styles available on the infobox would be: None, Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Demoman, Heavy, Engineer, Medic, Sniper, Spy, Quackston Hale. I think it would be important to note when it's a style, perhaps by using a prefix "Style: ".

As we are already on the topic of the infobox, something I also suggest is:

  • Add support to non-team colored items for the Infobox Class/Styles section. There is currently a problem on showing off different models per class for items that are not team-colored. An example is Dead Little Buddy, due to the lack of support on the infobox for such, the previews for class differences had to be added below, on the gallery section.

With these changes, I believe that the section about Styles could be removed. And only be mentioned in case the style is only affected by painting.

Leave your thoughts below. Thank you. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 19:36, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Something I don't get about clipping cosmetics.

So, something that I don't get about one of the Scout's cosmetics is that the Flak Jack. You can't equip it whilst having the Weight Room Warmer equipped, I personally think that it would look better if you could equip both. Here are some pictures of what it would look like, maybe they could just fix the clipping up in the back. Scout with Weight Room Warmer and without Flak Jack

Scout with both the Weight Room Warmer and the Flak Jack equipped The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rozeyy (talk) • (contribs) 30 December 2018

This is for discussion related to the Wiki, please post your concerns about clipping cosmetics on the Steam Community Discussions. Thanks! Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 17:55, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Question regarding Wikitext source

Hello! I was wondering if it is possible to view the source of a Wiki page without editing it / locking it? Thanks in advance! Tocksi (talk) 20:42, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by "locking it", unless you're speaking of protected articles, in which case can only be performed by the Wiki staff. As for viewing the source of a page without editing, I don't believe we have a read-only mode for editing. Either log out of your account or open a new window in private/incognito mode as it does not preserve your browsing activity . . Wookipan (talk | contribs) 22:15, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

The Wiki has issues loading images with special characters.

Hey. So, a while ago I replaced the image for Brütal Bouffant, and noticed that neither the direct link of the image, or the image on the page is being shown. Upon close inspection, the error code "Error creating thumbnail: convert: unable to open image `/var/www/html/w/images/0/03/Brtal_Bouffant.png': No such file or directory...", shows that it's trying to find for the "Brtal_Bouffant.png" file, showing that it's not being able to read the "ü" part of Brütal Bouffant. I don't know if this gets fixed by itself over time, but the Brütal Bouffant page looks pretty messy with the error code. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:56, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for reporting this! I've deployed an update to the servers to fix this (exact commit, for interested parties; our new hosting doesn't have the en_US.utf8 locale). Should be all sorted across the site now! -RJ 02:27, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Inclusion of Steam Workshop's original name for the Cosmetic Item / Weapon / Map

Hi. I want to make a small poll and know what people think about this subject. I'd like to know your thoughts on this. Do you...

  • Pictogram plus.png Support keeping the original Workshop names on "...under the name", on the main summary?
  • Pictogram minus.png Or you'd prefer the exclusion of the original Workshop names on the page, removing the "...under the name" section.

Please leave a small insight and thoughts about your vote decision. Here mine:

  • Pictogram minus.png - I think we should remove the name from the pages. We had previously decided to remove information regarding trivia to old workshop names (as well information about unreleased styles or other content). There's some Workshop names which are just codenames (Crone's Dome being "Loss of witches (Bastinda_2012)"), and some of them having phrases on the name (such as Insulated Inventor's "Insulated innovator: V wow this keeps happening"). Most of the time, the original names serve no real purpose, as trivia regarding the name are no longer being supported, and these are left just occupying unnecessary space on the page.

Hopefully, with this discussion, we can decide in either keeping them or not, and resolve the confusion we are having at the moment. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 16:26, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

  • Pictogram minus.png - I never saw aby purpose in mentioning their original workshop names, as ultimately Valve decides to keep the name or not of items (save for maps), and the name of the item on workshop is like really not that important - besides that, the viewer can check the original name himself, by checking the workshop page, so it's quite redundant to note that in the article. Goodjob (talk) 16:33, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Pictogram comment.png Equivocating 2 Specific to mentioning the development name in the Lead. I wondered if the practice was grandfathered. I did some checking, the form was established two months after the Workshop opened with the release of the first of the Workshop items.
From the December 22, 2011 edit of BFD: 'The Big Elfin Deal was contributed to the game via the Steam Workshop, with the name "The Elf".'
So, actually, its not like it is a new thing, in spite of my impressions or questionable recollections, or suggestions, otherwise. It really has "always been done that way." But, Gabrielwoj makes some great points, some of the "names" are really unimpressive at best. I don't think the old names are important, but maybe someone thought they were. But, we've chatted about this on and off for a few months, at least since it got cold, and no support for keeping them. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 04:03, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Pictogram comment.png Equivocating 3 A candidate for keeping, which was deleted, was Monster Mash, it is a notorious name IRL, but Valve had copyright reason, so thought, but maybe there real issue was style. IMO, much of the time, I don't care about the pre-release name. But I also don't care about detailed descriptions in the cosmetic leads, or detailed recapitulations of comics int their supposed Synopses. 23:52, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Pictogram plus.png Strong support for keeping the original workshop names in the main summary This change is so tiny it barely affects anything, and I like seeing the original names; sometimes having their own little references or just giving an example what the name could have been, which is enjoyable to me as a reader. If we truly wanted to remove this small addition, all those sentences would be 'This item was contributed to the Steam Workshop' which seems lifeless and is just saying what's already in the infobox, which actually makes readability worse. The arguments above, the names sometimes being codenames or having phrases in them are pure cherrypicking and don't portray accurately what the original names usually are - we could always remove such names on a case-by-case basis. And of course, the argument 'just occupying unnecessary space on the page' is pointless as we are literally talking about just a few words here. { TidB | t | c } 10:39, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
There's pros and cons on keep the original workshop names. The pros being: Sometimes it can be interesting, older names can be better than the new names, and it's also useful for those who make images (as most of the time, the folder name for a cosmetic is based on the original workshop name). Although, there's a few cons, such as: workshop names being changed after being accepted in-game (so it would require removal of the name in a future edit), workshop names with codenames (like Crone's Dome), or workshop names with actual phrases in it. Other issues that comes with Workshop original names is that it makes new users include trivia regarding the old name, which we decided to drop these types of trivia (I'd say the same for the publicity blurb, but that was discussed before, so). I kinda stopped removing the workshop names (I did for like 15 items, then someone asked to me why, and then I halted my edits), but I know some editors are removing when making improvements to the page. It's something that is still debatable, nonetheless. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 14:18, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

The cache system is way too slow.

Hi. The cache system on the Wiki, ever since it was migrated to MediaWiki 2.0 (I think, I just know that it the main framework was updated), has ever since been very slow. I tend to upload a lot of images, and a lot of times, I have to wait for days for an image to catch up, I almost can't ever check if my work looks good on the page, requiring me to check only when the image is finally fully cached. Here's an example, an image I recently updated.

The problem is that the old image size from the previous revision gets used for the new image, and so it stretches very poorly on the page. Other times, the image seems to be properly sized, but still appears blurry in the page, as shown here on Weight Room Warmer, which in case of that image, it was uploaded in 14:07, 22 January 2019, almost 1 month later and the image is still not fully cached.

And other times, the images doesn't properly update at all, as seen on Assassin's Attire, some paint variant tables (that were uploaded around 16:37, 7 July 2018) show up the previous version instead. I'm not sure if this is a case of the cache or something else, but even when I attempted re-uploading the file, it didn't worked.

I remember I didn't had these issues on the previous MediaWiki. Would there be a way to improve the time for the cache system, or perhaps optimize it somehow? I've worked and been into other Wikis, and this is the only one which I see this problem happening. The Weight Room Warmer pic was just an example, but there's other images around the Wiki having the same or similar problems (some from old uploads, other from recent modifications). Thanks. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 20:25, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Documentation about Abuse Report and Bug Report on the Wiki?

Hi. I think the Wiki should have a page related to the Abuse Report system ('F7' key). I started to wonder if something was already covered, but apparently, the only mention of it seems to be on List of default keys. I also think we should document Bug Reporting as well. The addition to Bug Reporting could facilitate users who wants to report a game-breaking bug (for the Finder's Fee hat), although, I really don't know if in-game bug report system works for that. As for the Abuse Report system, we got pages for Coaching, the Workshop button on the main menu, Options, especially sprays, as well many other stuff. I think a page about it should be documented. User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 22:00, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

If I understand you correctly, since the wiki has articles for Coaching, the Workshop button on the main menu, and Options, then, for completeness there should be Report Player (Abuse Report) and Report Bug/Bug Report articles.
Technically, while there is a Workshop button on the Main Menu, the Steam Workshop covers the whole Valve interface rather than the MM button. And I don't see any broad "Options" article.
That said, Report Player (Abuse Report) and Report Bug/Bug Report do seem to be long-missing articles, as long as they focus on the Team Fortress 2 interface, especially as a how to.
M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 00:19, 14 March 2019 (UTC) 23:47, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
I attempted writing a page for it, it's currently on my sandbox. I named specifically "Abuse Reporter", that's how the game calls it by the in-game tip that is shown on the loading screen. I haven't taken any screenshots related about it, but please let me know what you think. You may edit the page if you see any mistakes or that you think section should be rewritten. The page is currently a "stub", even though I haven't actually added the template. I was thinking about adding the information that the rules applied to the report has to be followed from the Steam Subscriber Agreement, but I couldn't find any info regarding if these reports are really complied by those same rules. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:19, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
As far as content, I have no idea of anything to do with abuse reporting, so keep going. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 23:58, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

The new talk page layout

I've noticed that some talk pages, mostly new ones, have this new, weird layout style which is way more different than the normal talk page. Example: Talk:Operation Memes vs Machines. Not only is this talk page laggy and annoying to deal with, but it also doesn't show replies half the time. I wanted to reply to a reply, so first I had to do some weird refresh magic to get the reply to pop up, but then when I finished my reply, the layout asked me to do "the captcha below," but no matter how many times I did it, there was no captcha. Does anyone know how to disable this, or are we just stuck with this? Pyro emblem RED.png BeingAwesom Pyro emblem RED.png (talk · contribs) 03:10, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

It should be removed soon. See TFW:Technical requests#StructuredDiscussions. — Tark lm(pt-br) 04:49, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
FWIW, BeingAwesom, I did respond the Shadows topic that prompted this topic, my original response didn't show then showed until I fix a typo and hasn't been seen since. You can see my response if you search through the history. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 17:40, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Promotional or Distributed?

With the recent addition of the new templates for availability (great idea btw), I think it is about time that we 'clear up' the usage of "promotional" and "distributed". These terms, at the moment, seem to be used almost interchangeably on a lot of pages.

For example:

These are apparently promotional: Jaunty Globetrotter, Jaunty Explorer, Conspiracy Cap

While these are apparently distributed: TF2Maps Ray of Sunshine, TF2Maps Charitable Heart, Spectral Snowflake, Gift of Giving 2016, Public Accessor, Thought that Counts

Personally, I feel that 'promotional' refers to something that got used for promoting something (duh) and acquire money from players. This includes mostly donation medals. 'Distributed' (for me) refers to something that was distributed to the player for doing something specific (event, etc). For example, Titanium Tank Participant Medal 2017 is a clear distributed item as it got distributed to everyone who completed the tour.

I know one could argue that "the player buying the medal is something specific" and "donation medals also gets distributed" or, on the other hand, "event medals always promote the event they are from", but why have two terms for the same thing? We should really make a line of some kind so it means something.

Exception could exist (as always), but if anyone has any other strong opinions on what should be what - speak up :o

And also: why are the words for 'distributed' so much different between pages for a lot of languages? That should really be streamlined, unless they are some weird languages that change on a case-to-case basis (even for single words, somehow).

Should we include the Item Kind twice on Graded Items?

Hi. I was noticing something in game... Graded items contains both the Item Kind + Grade on their descriptions, but these items also have an additional Item Kind right below it. Take for example this [picture], we can see "Commando Grade Guitar" and "Guitar" right below it. Should we include this on each Graded Cosmetic Page? Additionally, this isn't the case while viewing an item on Steam Community, as seen [here], only mentioning "Commando Grade Guitar" and nothing else. This looks like a bug, rather than a feature, but anyway, it's how it's in the game. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 14:06, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Does this count as mentioning it twice on the SC? GrampaSwood (talk) 14:09, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
Maybe. Also, good point. These Graded items doesn't have level in-game, but apparently show up in SC. The "Guitar" on TF2 is on the same string color as the Level in SC, now I know why it's mentioned twice, because the Level [#] doesn't show up in-game. Now we have two things to discuss, one the addition to the Item Kind, and this situation with Item Level and viewing on SC. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 16:31, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Addition to "Community Market" under the Infobox Picture.

Hi. I've made a mock-up of what could be possibly added to several cosmetic/tool pages: i.imgur.com/z2edATE.png. Clicking on that blue button will redirect the user to "Steam Community Market :: Showing results for: Team Fortress 2, "Diplomat"".
Additional thoughts: I've made the button blue to be different to the one's seen like here, which allows to buy directly from the Mann Co. Store (via browser). I've made a "simple fix", but it may be possible to technically include the price too, backpack.tf shows the price in the Community Market, so I believe it's somewhere on the TF2 API? Although, with this method, we would need to include buttons for all the different marketable qualities (the Diplomat, for example, has listings for both Unique and Strange versions of the item).
The button can also be worded like: "View available listings for the Diplomat on the Steam Community Market".
I find it lacking that we don't have a direct link to Market Listings for marketable items. Thoughts?Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:56, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Additionally, we should include "Marketable: Yes/No" on the Basic Information as well, no? Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:59, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
Pictogram plus.png Agree Great idea, that's my favorite feature on Dota Wiki. Alternatively, we could use the item's defindex (from GetSchemaItems) to return the listings instead (like this: appid:440 prop_def_index:416). Also, even though it's somewhat possible to return the item prices, I don't think it's a good idea, Market prices tend to fluctuate from time to time. — Tark lm(pt-br) 23:49, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
Nice, I was trying to figure out if there was an "index" or code that could be used. We can possibly obtain this info from a list of indexes or something, and the infobox directly grabs that information on the template (not requiring to, for instance, having to search by the item's name, like "&q=Diplomat"). Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 00:09, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
{{defindex}} already exists, so it was simple to create a {{Buy now}} button that redirects to the Market (see User:Tark/BuyNow). Changing the background image requires additional permissions, tho. orz — Tark lm(pt-br) 18:00, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Looks nice. I suppose you dropped the "the" on "View listings on Steam Community Market" because it wouldn't fit? Also, we could just create another image if that's the case. I think it's really important to distinguish both Steam Community Market links from direct TF2 Purchases, as I believe there's going to be pages with both. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 22:08, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Should be "View listings on the Steam Community Market" now, thanks! Could you make a slightly different version of this image? — Tark lm(pt-br) 22:44, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
How different? I can make the 2 Steam Logos blue. I say blue as it's the predominant color on Steam Community. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:18, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
How's this? Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:21, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
Pictogram tick.png Done. — Tark lm(pt-br) 16:32, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Nicely done. Now, we just need two things: Add the string "Marketable: Yes/No", No shows up when there's no "| marketable", and Yes shows up when there's "| marketable" on the item's infobox table. The second thing is, we should add similar type of buttons for each Paint Can, currently there's no option to purchase them (or to view listings on the Community Market). Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:11, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Also, with the inclusion of the string above, we need to find a way to specify which qualities are Marketable and which ones aren't. For instance, we can have the Marketable Listings on the Scattergun page, but that only applies to Strange and Killstreak variations... I don't know exactly how can we specify each... Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:25, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

About plurals.

So, about plurals... how do we specify when an item's name or kind should be pluralized? Robin Walkers are both shoes, and the name is also pluralized, so I can see why it was pluralized here. I've recently made an edit to Blizzard Britches, to make it plural, as it's a pair of pants, and the name is in plural. However, I'm still unsure about the rest of the summary. In Robin Walkers, it's mentioned "They are...", while in Blizzard Britches, I still kept the traditional "It".
So, what can I do here? Should all pluralized names receive the "are/were/they" treatment? I can see pages like Shin Shredders still mentioning the item in singular. Also, should all items that are "a pair of boots", "a pair of pants", "glasses", be pluralized, despite if their names aren't, due to their kind? Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 16:06, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Cosmetic Item floating "Bugs"... I think we should get rid of those.

Hey. So... in some pages, there are bugs like... "When this item is equipped upon the Spy, it visibly floats in front of his lapel.". I wouldn't consider these as bugs, it's just how the model is positioned on the class. These type of "bugs" can be seen in pages like Operation Gear Grinder Badge (as well all the other Operation Badges) and a few others (I remember seeing on Power Up Canteen, but it looks like it was removed already). I think we shouldn't list these are bugs, rarely this has an unintended effect (mostly when the hat bone goes to prp_hat on Sniper, which causes the hat to re-position a bit, but even so, it's very few Sniper hats that actually has this issue. As an example, the Wiki Cap on Sniper clips on the top of his head, most likely that the bone was transitioned from hat to prp_hat, so he could grab while doing his Melee Taunt, and the only hat I can think of now with an issue like this, is the Toadstool Topper on Sniper).
So, yeah, I vote Pictogram cross.png No. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:13, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Definitely not a bug, it was specifically requested for our Cap that Cup medal to be floating in front of the person so it doesn't clip with stuff like the Veteran's Attire on Soldier. It might be unintentional that it's so far, but it's definitely not a bug. I vote removal too
GrampaSwood (talk) 08:35, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
I will keep an eye on and remove any "bugs" related to this. I've seen other medals which were also made to "float" so it reduces clipping with shirt items. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 16:37, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Mann Co. Store extra descriptions

Hey. So, I was looking around the Mann Co. Store, and some items have an extra description on them. For example, Something Special for Someone Special has this, while any decalable item has this. Other examples come from paint cans, Backpack Expander, Name Tag, Desc Tag, Decal Tool and so on. Should we include these more-detailed descriptions somewhere? If so, where? Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 00:08, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Issues with Scream Fortress 2018 Item Icons.

Hello, could someone please investigate why some icons for Scream Fortress 2018 are not updating accordingly? As some of you may know, I've been making new Item Icons, and for the majority of the SF2018 items, none of the icons are being updated with the latest revisions. The following icons has been updated, but their icons never refresh to the current revision:

These icons are the ones I noticed since I've updated them recently, but other SF2018 items may have been having the same issue (the only one so far with no issues was the Vampire Vanquisher).
As a side note, the Gaelic Glutton icon on the Demoman Cosmetic Items table is also stretched, this is due to a previous revision for the icon which was smaller. Ever after 2 changes (the first one to fix the size, and the second one which is a complete new icon), the icon is still having issues showing the current revision.
Thanks. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 14:05, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Seems to me that it's cache issues again. Similarly to this, some of the painted variants on Assassin's Attire aren't updating. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 18:18, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Updated once again. Highway Star seems to not even show the thumbnail, regardless of the revision. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 16:14, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Highway Star fixed itself, but Deadbeats is another item with the same problem. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 20:41, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Well, Highway Star is again not working, as well two new icons from the Summer Pack 2019:
All the rest of Summer 2019 items are working just fine, it's just those 2 (+ Highway Star) that doesn't seem to be refreshing. While the Highway Star appears fine in here, it doesn't refresh on this page, and possibly others. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:47, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
More icons:
Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:00, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Changing the titles and the name of certain items and item sets.

Hey there everyone! I'm new to the translation section of the Wiki. I have a problem with the translation with the titles of some pages and items. The translation guide only says to add a DISPLAYTITLE on the top of the page, but the item doesn't change name. I noticed that if i add a

| name = NameExample

in the item info section, I can change the item's name. But sometimes it says Template:Dictionary/items/nameexample Same thing goes for item sets. Is there someone who can explain me how it works please?

I would be really happy! :D D-ray Ent. (talk) • (contribs) 29th of June 2019 20:18 CEST

Hello,
The wiki works with the Dictionary, here you can find all translations for items and other things. If you want to edit it, click on the "items" section, scroll down to the appropriate subsection and then edit it.
At the bottom of the page I linked is the documentation on how to use the dictionary. If you have any more questions regarding the dictionary and editing is, feel free to post it on the talk page.
Also please sign your comments using ~~~~

GrampaSwood (talk) 18:35, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Regarding recent consistency edits

In recent times, there've been some edits by Denied and Hinaomi to improve the consistency of pages, but I'm don't quite agree with both the methods and the way of how these edits are made. For one part, the main three consistency points seem to be

  1. Changing 'This item' to the actual item name
  2. Removing the 'under the name' part in the community-created sentence
  3. Removing the second Steam Workshop link in the community-created sentence

While I agree with the last point, I still find the first two confusing and don't agree with them - the usage of 'this item' avoids the repetition of the item name which also improves the visual aspects of the article, since the sentences are usually placed vertically adjacent to each other. They also make it harder in languages such as German because it can be awkward to use the {{item name}}-ified versions all the time. For the second point, just refer to the the discussion above.

What I still don't get though is how these consistency edits are appearing out of thin air, especially the first point. The only source of doing these edits is this talk page entry and it provides no reasoning for why to do this kinda thing, just mentioning 'consistency' which could always go both ways. The second point is even weirder, because there's the discussion right above, there's no consensus being reached and apparently it's still getting edited in (or rather, out)?

Because in the end, I think we might actually create more inconsistency because I don't see all the pages getting updated, and especially not the translated versions of them. I'd love to hear your input.

{ TidB | t | c } 20:37, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

I'd like to keep "This item was awarded" instead of full name. I was adding them from the begging, but at some point Hinaomi started adding full names, and becuse he's here longer than, I assumed he knows better than I. That's it. If it's neccesarry I can revert them back to "This item". About the "was added under 'name'" I think it's not necesarry to add them, because Valve was changing almost every Workshop item added, and now they're adding pretty much unchanged names straight from the Workshop, so adding them is kinda pointless. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 07:48, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
I don't think reverting will be necessary, these kinda edits can be done when other parts of the article have to be edited as well, but I agree. For the 'under the name' thingy, I'd say that when the name is the same, we could either use 'under the same name' (as it's been used before), or just omit it. As I said in the discussion above, of course it doesn't make sense to always include the original workshop name, but generally it could be a good idea. { TidB | t | c } 07:55, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
@TidB : I would have thought Denied's question to Hinaomi was rhetorical rather than supportive of the change away from "This item". I have always felt the abstraction serve the purpose of readability. As for mentioning Workshop names, I've participated in a couple of discussions on this, but I am not going to try to locate them during my lunch walk. In them I think I was probably supportive of not mentioning the Workshop name unless it was actually notable, exceedingly rare cases to be sure, IMO. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 17:31, 24 July 2019 (UTC) M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 19:55, 24 July 2019 (UTC)•
Sorry for the late reply, and I don't have much time so I gotta say this real quick. I don't mind if it changed to either way, just make them consistence with others. 02:07, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Please help me with Categories.

Hello. Soon, I'll be doing Item icons for (hopefully) all Decorated/War Painted weapons. While I was checking categories for existing Item Icons, I noticed some inconsistency. In some icons, the following categories are set:
== Summary ==
[[Category:Item icons]]
== Licensing ==
{{ScreenshotTF2}}
But in some newer icons, the following are set instead:
== Summary ==
{{ExtractTF2}}
== Licensing ==
[[Category:Item icons]]
[[Category:Cosmetic images]]
So, I have a few questions. One, because those icons will be completely new, they should be "ScreenshotTF2", right? Because they won't be extracted from TF2's game files or anything, and will be, instead, made from scratch using HLMV. Two, should I add "Weapon images" category for the Decorated Weapon icons, too?
If "ScreenshotTF2" is the right license for that, I'll be doing a cleanup on some of the Item icons where it's marked as "ExtractTF2" instead, from all the Item icons where I made a newer consistent version (in Shugo Style). Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:14, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Crate Depression

What do we do with the Crate Depression? I've heard the following options:

  1. Do nothing.
  2. Mention it as a note on the unusual page or the crate page.
  3. Make its own page.

From these suggestions, I would personally go with number 2, because I don't think it's enough to warrant its own page. Maybe make a redirect to said note. If you have any other suggestion feel free to bring it up.
GrampaSwood (talk)

I select the second one. My idea is mentioning that some Unusuals are Untradable (on the Unusual page), and explain the reason why. I don't think we need to mention the title "Crate Depression", but at least explain why the Unusuals are untradable and perhaps include an external link to the TF2 Blog post explaining it. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 19:15, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
It was officially dubbed the crate depression, so maybe just a mention like "Dubbed "the crate depression" as a play on the great depression".
GrampaSwood (talk) 19:18, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
Still, I don't think we need to mention about the name. The name could be included on the "References" list as the title of the blogpost "Update on The Crate Depression of 2019", and that would be enough. The wording of the Note could be something like this: "Some Unusual items are untradable, as a result for a fix of a market-crashing bug that affected the game in July 25th, which resulted in some Crates having 100% Unusual chance drops upon unboxing them. Due to the sheer amount of Unusuals unboxed in that day, Valve has decided in marking all Unusual items that were unboxed from that day and from those specific crates as untradable, with the exception of the first one unboxed per Steam user.[1]". And then [1] redirects to the References section for the Unusual page, containing a link with the title "Update on The Crate Depression of 2019". Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 19:35, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

UserTalk "Topic" pages are very broken.

Hi. The new comment system, that were implemented for UserTalk pages (as well Talk pages), is really broken. Sometimes it's impossible to see the replies that people make. I just made a comment on a Topic which I can't view my own post. Another issue is that you can't put URLs on these posts, otherwise it'll ask to complete a CAPTCHA that does not appear on the page, so I had to replace the dots into "(.)", just to bypass the URL detection. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 23:20, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

I believe the solution to not seeing new answers is to go to the talk page itself (usually it's just looking at a topic, just click "read" or "discussion") then refresh, this worked for me. But yes, we've all already voted to take this new system away. It seemed better, but it ended up being worse. You can't even use "show preview" either. RJ should be removing this asap, but it's tricky because it might delete stuff.
GrampaSwood (talk) 23:26, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

"Main article: Item set" under == Item set ==

Is it possible to add "Main article: Item set" under == Item set == like it's done with == Painted variants == that adds "Main article: Paint Can" under it? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 18:43, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

{{main|Item Set}} I guess? Turns into
Main article: Item set
GrampaSwood (talk) 18:53, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
Yeah but you need to add it manually. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 05:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Discuss it on the talk page I guess?
GrampaSwood (talk) 10:34, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Inaccuracies regarding beta content?

I'm a sucker for TF2's beta content. I love it, but there is a ginormous amount of inaccuracies regarding them. Stuff like Demoman's Beta Head, which in reality is just Marphy Black's Blu Demoman Head from a Beta Demoman mod he made in 2009. Can we please also add stuff like the Trigger, the Incendiary Cannon particles, the Badlands Models and more?

About Discords on tournament pages

A Discord server requires an account to visit, personally I think it shouldn't be included on tournament (medal) pages, but rather have other sources like Steam or a reddit post. There might be an exception if it's linked in the "External links" section, and mention that you need an account for it. I don't think it falls under advertising (because the entire page is basically advertising then). Options I can think of are:

  1. Remove all Discord links, no exceptions
  2. Remove all Discord links, except the ones in the "External links" section of the article

Personally, I go for 2.
GrampaSwood (talk) 10:49, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

I'd vote for option 1, but option 2 sounds good aswell. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 10:53, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
2, yes. We could possibly add something similar to {{citation needed}} but it's "account needed" instead. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:19, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
So just like, account needed?
GrampaSwood (talk) 13:27, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
Option 1. — Tark lm(pt-br) 15:35, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
1st option. As I stated on Talk:ARG, all external sources should be accessible at all times without the need to register in order to view the content. I'll write a policy in regard to this sometime in the future. User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png Wookipan (talk | contribs) 17:31, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Should we note when Cosmetic Items fall on the ground?

Heya, so... I've been thinking for a while, I don't think we have any information regarding Cosmetic Items falling to the ground when a player is killed, do we? Not all Cosmetic Items fall from the ground, mostly hats are the ones that does, however, there's some exceptions, like the Cold Case. Should we add a line saying that, for example: "The Cold Case falls from the player upon death, and remains on the world for a few seconds", or even a more simple route, just a "Category" on the page for "falling cosmetics", huh? For Cosmetics that does not fall to the ground, we don't need to explain anything, if anything, a category for "non-falling cosmetics" could work. At the moment, we have category for Paintable items, Jiggleboned items, and so on, so I wouldn't see an issue with "falling" cosmetics too. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 19:47, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Regarding pages on custom maps, competitions, MVM missions, and such


Discussion moved here from Talk:Custom maps. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 11:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)


Seeing as how the question of custom maps being included has caused nothing but vulgarities and personal attacks, I would like to put forth a discussion about whether or not unofficial custom maps should stay on this Wiki at all. We have no ways to determine whether a map is to be considered worthy of having its own article or not. On the other hand, they also don't have much significance to TF2 itself other than their usage on some community servers. Most of them have their own pages and such whereever they're uploaded anyway, be it GameBanana, TF2Maps, or something like that. Personally, I'm for removing all the custom map pages on the Wiki. Please leave your thoughts below. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 19:07, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

I'm unaware of the vulgarity or personal attacks, but I can see this happening (I saw a while ago someone who was banned for adding offensive content to their UserPage, but I'm unsure on what was that about). In the topic of personal attacks, the Trivia on WelcomeToMyMine (mission) regarding the two Mann Up players could be classified as an attack to them, regardless if you see them as "toxic" or not. In any regard, I don't think the Wiki should specifically mention users for their actions, as it's done on WelcomeToMyMine page.
Because these maps are custom made, it's very easy for someone to add a reference on the map for something, just to be featured on the "Official Wiki".
In conclusion, I vote for removal of custom maps. Since we are in the topic of "user-created content", we should also remove user-created wallpapers from this page. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 19:56, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
I agree to removing the unofficial wallpapers as well. The userpage that was deleted for offensive content was throwing shade at our admins/moderators and some other editors (if I recall correctly, please don't take this as a fact). The reason they were so upset was that the page for their custom map was deleted or something like that, for which they held a grudge for over three years. Custom MVM missions should also be purged, along with pages about TF2Maps contests and community events (like Canteen Crasher), as they are of no relevance to TF2 in the Official Wiki. If a map was made official because it won a contest (as is the case with Mountain Lab), it can be mentioned on the page of the map itself. Custom map pages and MVM missions can be moved to the userpages of their creators, if they wish to keep them.
The trivia you mentioned, "GuYs lOOK i CaN CaRrY" and "The carrier's pocket slave" references the user BrutalPizza and Trickstabber. They are known for their toxic behaviour and are notorious for kicking new players frequently. At times they can be seen in the tour Two Cities when in Mann Up. Experienced Mann Up players encourage players that aren't close to them to never play with them, is definitely overboard. There is no room for personal attacks on the Wiki, especially not for personal attacks that link to their Steam profiles. I have removed it from the page. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 06:07, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
It seems that the discussion isn't only about custom maps anymore. Please move it to the main wiki discussion.
I'm not against removing bad "articles", but this approach of deleting everything seems harsh. I've personally seen articles on custom MvM missions used to help coordinate players on some Potato's servers.
One thing we can't deny is that Valve's support isn't here anymore, you can't use "this is community-created content" as an excuse anymore. Whether we like it or not, community content is what's keeping the game "alive". — Tark lm(pt-br) 10:44, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
If we are to keep articles on custom content, how do we decide whether something is worthy of having an article or not? Many custom map pages are nothing more than an infobox, a few images, and a line or two of text. Do you think we should keep those? What about pages like Construction Theme that are of barely any significance? I agree that custom MVM mission pages can be useful, but I don't see any reason to keep custom map pages to be honest. Perhaps we can keep the custom MVM missions if the pages adhere to certain guidelines, to avoid ending up with unfinished low-quality pages, like we have with custom maps. Keeping some articles and deleting others without coming up with a set of requirements for them might come across as picking favourites, in my opinion. Please excuse me if my messages look like an angry rant, I didn't get much sleep and I still haven't had my morning tea. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 11:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
There's been a lack of solid guidelines in regard to custom content on the Wiki, and it appears that those guidelines never were written down and that the current criteria is inconsistent. To my knowledge, such guidelines weren't needed at the time as it wasn't of much importance, but due to the recent highlights of the subject something needs to be done about it.
I wouldn't be entirely against removing all custom maps, though it would be rather unfortunate, as some of them (like Tark mentioned) does have some sort of value in terms of coordination/documentation. Perhaps if we were to write a policy on custom maps we could determine whether a map has enough significance to be allowed to stay/removed, though this would send us back to square 1, so it needs to be done right this time.
While the page for user-created wallpapers doesn't contribute much besides being a place where users can share their wallpapers with the rest of the community, I don't see any reason to delete it; it's merely an easy-to-access page that provides the users of the Wiki (or outside the Wiki) with high-res wallpapers, and yes I'm aware most of those wallpapers can be found on TF2's website as well.
Regarding that trivia entry, I'm honestly surprised that no one has caught up on that until now. Naming and shaming is definitely not allowed here on the Wiki, and I sincerely apologize if any witch-hunts occured against anyone mentioned in the entry. User Wookipan Golden Strawberry.png Wookipan (talk | contribs) 14:57, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
Basically what Wookipan said, except that I don't know of any maps that should be kept. There's also the comp wiki for any comp players out there looking for competitive maps info, and they can probably cover it better than us. I'm all for custom stuff on the wiki, but it does need some guidelines. (Also the criticism directed at the wiki for not deleting Netherlands was completely unjustified as I'm 99% sure it just wasn't noticed)
GrampaSwood (talk) 15:18, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
Well, now knowing a bit more on what happened, I'll give my thoughts regarding custom maps being on the Wiki or not. I vote for keeping only custom maps that has been from a community-contest, a campaign (like potato.tf ones), or has been mentioned on the official blog (such as tr_walkaway), as well maps that are the "non-halloween" version of official maps, such as Gravestone's original map Rumble. Maps that haven't been in any competition, community-content or anything, discard. For example, I don't know why we have this map on the Wiki. However, there's some pros and cons. I think we shouldn't remove all the custom maps because of the vulgarities and the events that happened recently, but we should take an action on the most logical decision, this is an Official Wiki, so having a Custom Maps section is sure questioning for some. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:11, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Keeping some custom maps wouldn't hurt, I guess. As long as we make sure that we write down a set of requirements for the maps that are to be kept on the Wiki, and stick to them. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 17:41, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

In patrolling, I have seen a few pages about unreleased Custom maps deleted for non-notability (I use the qualifier "unreleased" out of necessity, since the wiki uses the term both broadly and narrowly to mean released Custom maps). Among the comments was the argument that an unreleased Custom map needed to have at least placed in a map competition; a problem here is that the only competitions that can result in a Custom map winning but remaining unreleased are unofficial, and so, arguably out of the scope of the official wiki. That said, I accept other editors (seemingly?) accepting such maps from such competitions.
There are a few non-competitive maps that are more notable and influential than "contest winners" in so much as not only are they played much more often (at least historically) than the "contest winners", they have spawned many variants in the community. I am thinking specifically of Achievement Idle, Trade Plaza, Orange X, and, maybe, Trade Minecraft (popular, but no article, yet). If we have accepted articles discussing Achievement servers, Idle servers, and Trading servers, we could justify having articles about popular maps on those servers.
A personal issue I have with the state the unreleased Custom maps pages is that many if not most of them are Stubs that have remained so for years. IMO, these stub tags pollute the Stubs category, possibly discouraging work on higher priority articles. This is why I created Category:Custom maps unreleased stubs, which I need to finished populating (I was hoping a new editor would pick it up). These are the general rules I have applied or seen applied:
Criteria for accepting articles on unreleased Custom Maps: Should qualify under one or more:
  • Exceptionally notable in its own right; e.g., Walkway, Trainsawlaser(?) (There was another one I thought I saw mentioned, that was sort of a prototype for some game mode or other) IMO, there is nothing wrong about having discussions on notability on individual maps like these. Mind you, I could imagine that what is notable to the present set of active editors could be quite different from other player.
  • Very popular, presently or historically, both in playtime and derivative maps; e.g., Achievement Idle (Map Statistics as a measure? Is there an archive?)
  • Normal versions of released Halloween maps, Invasion maps, etc.
  • Contest winners; e.g., Canteen Crasher stuff, but then there is the matter of which contests are worthy ...
  • Mention in multiple "game journals of record"; (I have no idea what those journals may be, just spit-balling here)
and be reasonably complete/stable (placing in a competition is a reasonable measure of completion): the map should not be just something that someone is working on. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 22:03, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
and conform to Maps style. M I K A D O 282 oOOOOo oo oo (talk) (Help Wanted!) 01:46, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Surprised this topic has come up again. It's probably worth noting that we've been stuck on this for a while now. Also for other third party content entirely like 3rd party websites. I gave up and started the discussion that lead to the Team_Fortress_Wiki:Policies#Community_websites policy. If it's becoming a problem again it might be worth considering something similar. I have no input on the matter personally because I'm only experienced with custom maps in the sense of server rotations and numerical/prop related stuff. My suggestion with things like this - and kind of more in line with the wiki mission - is if you go this route, prefer to translate the pages into useful general documentation of the modding support where you can, and note omnipresent community stuff where needed. -- Lagg Backpack Stickybomb Launcher.png 19:57, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Regarding mechanics that are only found through community-made stuff.

So... a while ago, I added a mechanic featured on the Huntsman that, when upgraded with Projectile Penetration upgrade, it can penetrate enemy's Projectile Shielded Medics (a trait that only happens with the Huntsman, as other weapons, upgraded or not, does not go through the shield). While this is true, I don't think there's Robot Medics with shields on official maps or missions. So, what can we do about this? Should we detail as an Unused content on the Projectile Shield page? And explain from there what can or cannot penetrate the shield from there?
I think the latter should be the more ideal way to explain on the Wiki. We already have information regarding the unused Vaccinator shields being unused only on official maps, but they still work 100% on community-made missions. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:29, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

That's actually quite interesting, and I feel like explaining it in the Unused Content section would be the best course of action. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 14:56, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Categories for translated picture files

Here are 2 translated pictures which are used on Mechanics/zh-hans. But I don't know if I should add "zh-hans" to their categories as well.
Please let me know which way is correct or better, and I will do the same for other translated pictures in the future.

  • Damagefalloff zh-hans.png
  • CritHitChance zh-hans.png

User Dereko Name.png 10:03, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

The Language Translation Guide says that the language code should be added to categories, but it doesn't mention anything about files. I think it's ok to add /zh-hans to their categories for now. If it turns out that it's not supposed to be done with files, then we can just remove it, no problem. Killicon flaming huntsman.png VasyaTheWizard (talk) • (contributions) 10:07, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
Thank you!
Dereko is thanking Vasya for help, with good cheer.

Madness vs. Machine content on the wiki

With the imminent launch of Madness vs. Machines, I suppose it's time to discuss about this project that involves adding Madness vs. Machine content. Currently, several people (also from Potato's Custom MvM Servers), including myself, are making mission infoboxes such as this one this mission (which is of course, made by yours truly), as well as their respective pages (be it missions or maps). This is why for the past few weeks, there's been custom MvM-related activity going on.

As of writing, over half of the mission infoboxes (which is one of the most tedious tasks in making an MvM mission page) are already finished (and hopefully matches the quality of those used by official missions), which is significant compared to previous events hosted by Potato's, where their pages on the wiki are incomplete or missing. I personally intend to complete this project before 2019 ends, despite its large scale. I am also aware the dispute of whether or not custom MvM content should even be included in the wiki in the first place, but since too much progress has already been made, the project is better off being continued.

Since this project wouldn't go unnoticed, I do want to ask any guidelines or advice regarding the implemention of custom MvM content, as simply putting all of it here without a word will certainly cause misunderstanding, one way or another. One possible issue that I do want to focus on is whether or not custom MvM content should be separated from official MvM content in regards to categories. --Bot Rot (talk) 15:52, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

This is related to the custom content on the wiki stuff, we can't speak for that yet because staff are still discussing it, but it's best to keep it on your user space for now so you can reference it anywhere you want. And if it turns out it won't be allowed, you can simply keep it there. If it will be allowed, we move it there.
GrampaSwood (talk) 16:35, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Inconsistency among Halloween cosmetic/item set pages

  • Different descriptions for the image in "Gallery" section:

Dereko thinks it's neccessary to unify them , what's your opinions?

User Dereko Name.png 08:27, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Personally I think it should be only "Steam Workshop thumbnail for the [set name]", because that's what the regular pages follow too.
The first point is because it got recently updated in the Item set template itself, so just remove any instance of that.
GrampaSwood (talk) 08:56, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Broadening the definition of Event

... or something like that; maybe "Holiday".

Folks on IRC seemed reluctant to start an article to cover the on-going Halloween celebration. Generally, IIRC, the opposition was that we can't start an Update article until the Update is released. I was never proposing writing anything about the expected Update. (Why would I suggest that? There is nothing to write about.) Others suggested that there was no event yet because there was no Update yet (cf. Scream Fortress IX?).

As far as an example of us starting an article to report activities before any actual Update, I offer the example of the Jungle Inferno Update; that article was started with the first Blog Post on the 16th, the Update didn’t occur until the 20th. All of the Halloween update articles cover both the Update Patch and the Event. I am not saying to report on anything that has not happened yet, only report on what is actually happening. I am not saying to have some half-ass incomplete article, I am saying to have something that completely covers what is known, rather than ignoring it because it is different than what we expect. We seem stuck on calling something an Event only if it starts with a Patch (admittedly very clean and convenient definition), in spite of knowing features of Events can start and stop without Patches.

What we know:  ·  There was an in-game announcement.  ·  Halloween-restricted cosmetics were activated immediately (We used to call that a Holiday!) (That used to be all we had for Halloween!)  ·  Soul Gargoyle kill counting started.  ·  Past Halloween maps were added to the Casual menu.  ·  There was an assurance made that there will be an Update with contracts and new community content.

What we don't know:  ·  When the Update will happen  ·  What valve will call the Update  ·  Whether the content will be maps or cosmetics or anything else.

We also know people have come to the wiki looking for some idea what is going on (why haven't I gotten a Soul Gargoyle yet?) and only see us ignoring the Event.

This pattern of Holiday is likely to be repeated, and we should consider how to handle it.

I say, pick a title, knowing full-well that Valve can pick its own later. I suggest Scream Fortress 2019 simply because that is close to the pattern of recent event. Maybe you prefer the title of the announcement? You know what, if that title doesn't work out after the actual Patch, we just change it, this is a wiki, wikis work like that.

All the content it needs is just the facts, especially details we have seen that were not covered in the announcement. Nothing more than "On October 2, Valve announced in-game that "Halloween has begun!" On that day, Halloween-restricted cosmetics were activated game-wide and Soul Gargoyles started counting souls on all maps. Past Halloween maps were also added to the Casual Mode menu. Halloween Contracts have not been activated yet and Soul Gargoyles have not yet dropped to new players. No date has been indicated for the Contracts or content Update."

M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk) (Help Wanted!) 02:11, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Major updates and content packs

Hi, I'd like to bring a new topic - as the title says, it's about major updates and content packs

TF2 is in a cycle where the only updates it gets is holiday-based updates, and their features are as it follows - New cosmetics, few bugfixes, and in case of halloween some non-permanent maps and the same set of contracts with minor changes to it.
The issue here is that any holiday update - be it Smissmas or Halloween (or even last summer "update") is considered a major, when it is clearly not, even if Valve may say otherwise - I've also wanted to add that I'm mainly speaking of recent updates (those being from Meet your Match update in 2016 up to now) but not all the other previous holiday updates and such necessarily, as say Smissmas 2010 could be considered a major update, and this is where I get into another thing I want to bring up - just what should we consider a major update and a content pack?

First, let's start off by defining major update - In my view it is an update that fullfills the following criteria:
a) Impacts or changes gameplay/an aspect of it
b) Adds new permanent content that is not necessarily cosmetic (ie it can be maps)
c) Adds new features (given that major updates almost exclusively add new features or quality of life improvements, for example minimalized viewmodels) or change already existing features

What constitutes a content pack in my view (and which could be a good starting point)
a) New cosmetic items or addition of other items that can be considered cosmetic or part of customization (skins, hats, taunts)
b) (Exclusive to holiday content packs) Non-permanent content (ie Halloween maps that are only available for duration of the event or contract set that is locked for a time peroid; although the latter is also sort of an exception if we'd be speaking of old contracts that were time-limited before JI reworked the way they worked, but it is fair to presume that any new major update with new contract set would make them permanent at a later date, akin to JI contract pass.)

There are of course some exceptions to this: Blue Moon Pack could be considered major since it did impact gameplay via its balance changes, it did introduce several new features/quality of life improvements and reworked an entire competitive mode, at least certain aspects of it. However it did not add permanent content, other than cosmetics. Other exception would be old Smissmas updates, for example Smissmas 2010, as it did add new gamemode + map (so new permanent content), weapons and some balance changes (which impacts gameplay), added new features/quality of life improvements (itemtest and associated things with it, an ability to expand backpack).

And to finish - I would and we should not define an update off what Valve says, as in actual reality what Valve considers major is not really reflected in what the update in the question features.
tl;dr: We need to start marking updates as content or major update by their merit/features and not by what Valve says; We should change/reevaluate recent updates (starting with Halloween 2016 up to now) to whether they are major or just content packs, as well as clearly define as to what we consider content pack and a major update. Goodjob (talk) 14:14, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

I would also want to add how [Patches#MU]] and Patches#CP are categorized differently than Template:Major_Updates_Nav (both Nav and patches page should show same things). If we want to categorise updates like Valve does we can use [3] and then put every other update in Content Packs. Also about newest "Major updates" : Smissmass 2018 isnt considered major by Valve and it added same ammount of content as normal content pack (1 case, that's it). Scream Fortess XI is even worse, it wasn't even mentioned on TF2 Blog (only in updates tab). Every "major update" since Jungle Inferno added ONLY community made content (excluding 2 Valve made taunts) such as temporary-Halloween maps, cosmetics, unusual effects and warpaints.
Killicon hhg.pngFiatSeicentoKillicon hhg.png 14:33, 12 October 2019 (UTC)Fiat Seicento
I think y'all have seen me circling around the same topic on a different tack. Distinguishing Holiday, Halloween event/Scream Fortress, <o>Halloween mode</o>, and Major Updates. Valve, on occasion at least, calls Halloween an Event.
To the definition I would add "on or more of the following features" and add the following points:
d) Storyline media
e) Promotional ARG
f) Promotional lead up, whether Update Pages, blog posts, or in-game announcements (@FiatSeicento< IMO, the SFXI in-game announcement and lead-in Halloween "mode" activation count at least as much as blog posts. I think active players are more likely to see the in-game announcements.)
We have overloaded "Major Update" with "Event" because past Events came with significant Updates. Even in 2017, Halloween was a major Event in that it was widely anticipated and spiked severe activity. But as an Update, it looked like nothing, unless you see SFIX as an extension of the MAJOR Jungle Inferno -- if you look at it that way, SFIX is, by association, mush less trivia.
But if you don't see it that way, and say that there should be no Update page for SFIX, then you would not have the default place to describe the Major Halloween Event of SFIX.
I have been slowly working on the Halloween Event/Update pages to clearly express that they cover both the Event and Patch aspects of how Valve and the Community play on Halloween.
gtg, my College-age daughter wants to watch a movie with Daddy!!!
M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk) (Help Wanted!) 18:10, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
I think we need to make Event or Events page to straighten things up. My definitions:
  • Holidays (imo) are certain types of Events that happen annualy in certain time of a year such as: Halloween (not to confuse with Scream Fortress which is update that happens usually at the beginning of Halloween, proven this year its not same thing), Smissmass and Birthday. I didnt counted Saxxies, because they happen annualy (excluding 2017) but not in certain time of year.
  • Events are uhhh. Certain time when somethings work, but wont if event ended? I dunno. But heres list of events: Holidays ofc, Saxxies, campaign related events (Jungle inferno campaign (contracts still work, but badges were event-exclusive), Invasion (Invasion Community Update Coin worked for some time), Duck Journal event, Gun Mettle and Though Break campaigns and exc.)
  • Halloween mode is uh mode of server? Like Birthday mode its enabled by deafult at certain time and can be forced by commands. Also that Halloween enabling item.
  • Major updates and Content Packs. Content Pack is ofc anything other than normal update that adds new thing(s). Major update is (technically) very big content pack that usually has something released along with it. But wheres the border? First 3 major updates are size of content packs. Smissmass 2018 added only 1 crate but despite this on page and Nav it shows up as major update. Blue moon pack added 1 crate, tweaked weapons and reworked competetive but is still listed as content pack. We need clear definition telling us when update is content pack or rather major update.
    Killicon hhg.pngFiatSeicentoKillicon hhg.png 21:09, 12 October 2019 (UTC)Fiat Seicento
Holiday may be in part a wiki construct; but, the Valve term is Holiday Restriction, as appears in the item descriptions. Valve has three Holiday Restrictions, "Winter Holiday", "TF Birthday", and "Halloween / Full Moon" (Valentine's Day doesn't count?). So, Valve identifies 3 + 13 annual Holidays, give or take. On this basis (specifically) I see no need to change Holiday.
Event: Valve additionally applies the term ""Scream Fortress event" to the collective Halloween activations, which over time have become much more than just activation of Holiday Restriction. But, practically, Valve uses "event" for any special time-limited variation in the game including community activities.
Campaigns are (were?) events with Contracts with premium buy-ins?
Halloween mode as a term is mainly a wiki construct. Essentially, the present content of the page is covered between Holiday#Halloween and Halloween event. IMO, the only reason to keep Halloween mode as a distinct page is to change it to an article devoted to tf_forced_holiday and expand it to cover all of the holiday settings.
Content Packs: I really don't know the history of the Content Packs section of Patches; I wonder if at one time these were all under Major Updates until Valve started calling certain content Patched "Packs" and "Content Packs".
Major Updates: It only thing that seems to be a distinction from Content Pack is that a "Major Update" was also (usually) an "Event", that is, there was something different and time-limited going on in the game OR there was some ARG, Storyline, or Update lead up (pages, announcements). It looks like the wiki calls it an "Update" if either Valve Calls it an Update or it is a Holiday content patch. "Event" activation aside, SFXI is a bigger, more major content update than either the Haunted Hallowe'en Special or the Pyro Update (if those two are "Major", then so is SFXI). (but Summer Event 2013 was an "Event"?)
Maybe a partial solution is to Move the Holiday Patches (because they sometimes minor but are always Events) into into Patches#Halloween, Patches#Winter Holiday, and maybe Patches#TF Birthday -- then no one will ever care again about whether they are "Major" or not.
M I K A D O 282 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃 🎃🎃 🎃🎃 (talk) (Help Wanted!) 17:26, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
I think that both "Major Updates" and "Content Packs" should be merged into one group just called "Updates". They may be major or not, they may be content packs or not, but in some regard, they are Updates, more than your regular "Patch". Maybe the name "Updates" could be something else, but I think we should consider merging them into something. Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 18:18, 13 October 2019 (UTC)