Difference between revisions of "Team Fortress Wiki:Discussion"

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(Can't Model but have great ideas?)
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<div style="margin-bottom:1em;">{{CentralDiscussion}}
 
<div style="margin-bottom:1em;">{{CentralDiscussion}}
 
</div>{{TFWiki navbar}}
 
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{{Archive list | archives = <!--
 
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[[Category:Team Fortress Wiki]]
 
[[Category:Team Fortress Wiki]]
[[Category:Team Fortress Wiki discussion| ]]
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[[Category:Team Fortress Wiki discussion]]
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|{{Discussion archives}}
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== Dark Mode ==
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I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
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:Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
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 +
== Valve Store ==
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The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
== Deleting User Accounts ==
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:Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
Is it possible to delete my user account here?
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== Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal ==
  
-Stretch97'
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Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL]. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes ([[Cotton Head]], [[Brotherhood of Arms]], etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): [https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT]. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: [https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG]. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
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:I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  
== Promo Item/Damage Idea ==
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== Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model ==
  
So, as we all know, the damage tables for Promo items simply redirect to the weapon it reskins.  However, why don't we just add a damage table for each of those weapons, so a user won't have to redirect from his original page?  I'd be willing to do it. [[User:SnowCanary|SnowCanary]] 21:30, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
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Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the [[Soldier's Stash]], [[Horrible Horns]] on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin ([[Texas Half-Pants]], [[Millennial Mercenary]]'s Streaming 2Fort style, [[Exquisite Rack]], [[Battle Bob]]'s With Helmet style, [[Bacteria Blocker]]'s Headphones style, etc).
: I honestly wouldn't be against it, but I feel that it was done the way it is for a reason. Unless a mod has decreed it to be as such, I would say yes, change it. --[[User:LordKelvin|LordKelvin]] 21:35, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:: With the new damage table template, all weapon pages will have their own damage/function time table and will not redirect to the weapon they reskin --[[File:User Firestorm Flame.png]] [[User:Firestorm|<span style="text-shadow:orange 0px 0px 3px;"><font color="#FF6600"><tt><big><u>'''Firestorm'''</u></big></tt></font>]]</span>
 
::: Alright, I'll start to add the damage in.  Many of the tables are a simple copy-paste, however, so I can't take all the credit. [[User:SnowCanary|SnowCanary]] 22:34, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 
  
::::: Yeah I don't see why not. It's a small (ish) thing but it would be useful [[User:Pierow|Pierow]] 10:37, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
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Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on [[Decorated Veteran]] since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).
:::::: {{c|support}} - I like this, especially since there are some promo weapons with their own stats (i.e. Fan O' War). [[User:Happy Fun Ball|Happy Fun Ball]] 00:21, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::::: {{c|support}} I don't see a problem with this and it saves time for the reader [[User:DeagleEagle|DeagleEagle]] 16:27, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::::: {{c|support}} I agree with deagle and Fun ball [[User:PoopManX|<span style="text-shadow:#5885A2 0px 0px 3px;"><font color="#5885A2"><tt><big><u>'''PoopManX'''</u></big></tt></font>]] [[File:PoopManXsprite.png|31px|link=User_talk:PoopManX]]</span> 11:48, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 
== Weapon Sounds ==
 
I think this idea might have been suggested in the past though I can't find it...Anyway. I suggest that we add the sound files that the weapons make. This could be added to the individual weapons pages so that the person can clearly hear the weapons sound without any other audio playing. As there are multiple noises for the same gun, I'm thinking we have some sort of table to clarify. Eg.
 
  
Sandman
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Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.
  
{| class="wikitable grid" width="50%"
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Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.
|-
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! class="header" width="10%" | Function
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Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The [[Mann-Bird of Aberdeen]] looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like [[Team Captain]] for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: [https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0 https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0]). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
! class="header" width="10%" | Sound
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|-
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:I would support every page having both team colours.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
| Primary Fire
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| (Primary Fire sound file)
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== Articles for individual environmental hazards ==
|-
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| Alternate Fire  - Hit Ball
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Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: [[Ghost]], [[Pumpkin bomb]], [[Saw blade]], and [[Train]].
| (Hit Ball sound file)
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|-
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These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "''[Train horn noises]''". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the [[Environmental death]] article.
| Ball Respawn/Pick Up
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| (Ball Respawn/Pick Up sound file)
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I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to [[Pitfall]].
|}
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 +
As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:
 +
* Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
 +
* Create a separate page for that (similar to the [[Item timeline]] pages).
 +
* Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).
 +
 
 +
I am ok with [[Skeletons]] and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).
 +
 
 +
Opinions? - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
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 +
:I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to [[List of game modes]], where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
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 +
:: I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by {{code|<nowiki>== Section title ==</nowiki>}}) would be a "complete" article.<br/>[[User:Tiagoquix|<font color="#1e90ff">Tiagoquix</font>]] ([[User talk:Tiagoquix|<font color="#19c819">talk</font>]]) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
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== A request ==
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In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because [[Classic]] and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
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:If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use <nowiki>{{ucfirst:<string>}}</nowiki> to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, <nowiki>{{ucfirst:hello world}}</nowiki> generates {{ucfirst:hello world}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
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::Could you help me with this? I've changed it in [[Template:Mann-Conomy Nav]] but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
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 +
:::Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{tl|lang}} template instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
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::::[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3408072&oldid=3388990 I already did it once and...] [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
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:::::Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{tl|lang incomplete}}?<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
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 +
::::::I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Mann-Conomy_Nav&diff=3584139&oldid=3583139 this edit]? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
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 +
{{Outdent|6}}Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link <nowiki>[[VintageVintage]]</nowiki>.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
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 +
== Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history ==
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I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. [[User:The American Boot|The American Boot]] ([[User talk:The American Boot|talk]]) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
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:If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed [[Help:Style_guide/Trivia|Trivia guild]].[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
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 +
:I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The [[Art Pass Contest]] page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
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 +
== Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts ==
 +
 
 +
I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the [[Lollichop]], which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the [[Third Degree]] and [[Neon Annihilator]], which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the [[Cow Mangler 5000]], [[Scottish Resistance]], and [[Ullapool Caber]], which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the [[Vita-Saw]], which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.
 +
 
 +
I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.
 +
 
 +
Speaking of the [[Pyro taunts]] page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - [[User:BrazilianNut|BrazilianNut]] ([[User talk:BrazilianNut|talk]]) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
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 +
:I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
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 +
== Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization ==
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'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
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:See [[Template:Dictionary/common_strings#.5BMain_Page.5D_Smissmas_2023|Dictionary common strings]].<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
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 +
:: Thanks. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
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 +
== Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work ==
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 +
[[https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_Wiki:Wiki_Birthday#Official.E2.84.A2_Team_Fortress_Energy_Drink]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]]''' ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Nonolemage|contribs]]) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC</small>
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 +
:Please sign your messages using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.
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:The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
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== Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc ==
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Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:
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1) Implement a way on the {{code|Item infobox}} template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:
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a) The Heavy variant of the [[Team Captain]] only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: [https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z]. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.
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b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of [[Close Quarters Cover]], include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: [https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME].
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c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the [[Dead Little Buddy]] have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: [https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO].
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d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the [[Jumper's Jeepcap]] would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like [[Mustachioed Mann]], would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like [[Carl]] that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.
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2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): [https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP]. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.
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3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: [https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo]
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4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Boarder%27s_Beanie&oldid=3594086 this page]). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: [https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK]
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a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.
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5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, [[Main Cast]] would look like this: [https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs].
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6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the [[Robot Chicken Hat]] page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like [[Dead of Night]] wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.
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'''Edit:''' Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Robot_Chicken_Hat&oldid=1679218 looked like this]. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.
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I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538] (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.
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7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, [[Brawling Buccaneer]] would have its Painted variants table from <nowiki>{{Painted variants}}</nowiki> to <nowiki>{{Painted variants full}}</nowiki>, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.
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8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as [[Manndatory Attire]], [[Beaten and Bruised]] and [[Boarder's Beanie‎]]), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: [https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6 https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6]
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'''Edit: ''' 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. [[Manndatory Attire]] has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.
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a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.
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b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like [[Onimann]] mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.
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Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
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:1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
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:2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
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:4/5. I like this.
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:6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{tl|Tabs}} template for it.
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:7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
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:8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{tl|Tabs}}.
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:9. See answer on 1.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
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::1 {{c|+|Agree}} - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
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::2 / 3 {{c|?|Not sure / changes}} - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
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::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - This also looks nice.
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::5 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.
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::6 {{c|-|Disagree}} - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
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::7 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
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::8 {{c|+|Agree / changes}} - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
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::9 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.
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::[[User:Andrew360|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#038d3a ">Andrew360</span>]] [[File:Edit_icon.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Andrew360]] [[File:Speech typing.png|25px|link=User_talk:Andrew360]] [[File:Photo Badge Decal Example.png|15px|link=https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Special:ListFiles?limit=25&user=Andrew360&ilshowall=0]] 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
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:::1 {{c|-|Disagree}} - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
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:::2 {{c|+|Agree}} - Good idea!
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:::3 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
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:::4 {{c|+|Agree}} - Yes.
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:::5 {{c|+|Agree}} - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
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:::6 {{c|+|Agree}} - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
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:::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - Same with Andrew360
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:::8 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{tl|Tabs}}?
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:::9 {{c|?|Disagree.. or Sorta Agree}} - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
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:::[[User:Profiteer|Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard]] ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
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::::1 {{c|+|Sorta Agree}} - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
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::::2 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I wanna see how it would look first.
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::::3 {{c|+|Agree}} - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
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::::4 {{c|+|Strongly agree}} - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
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::::5 {{c|?|Not sure}} - I like the idea, but it will take a '''lot''' of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
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::::6 {{c|?|Not sure}} - Same answer as 5.
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::::7 {{c|+|Agree}} - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
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::::8 {{c|-|Somewhat disagree}} - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
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::::9 {{c|-|Strongly disagree}} - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
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::::[[User:ShadowMan44|ShadowMan44]] ([[User talk:ShadowMan44|talk]]) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
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:::::So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.
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:::::However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.
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:::::GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.
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:::::GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the [[Boarder's Beanie]] paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.
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:::::My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.
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:::::ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.
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:::::Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something [[Liquor Locker]], [[Pocket-Medes]], etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.
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:::::Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like [[Manndatory Attire]] and [[Boarder's Beanie]] wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?
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:::::ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the [[Dead of Night]] and [[Pocket-Medes]]. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
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::::::So [[User:Tekinz|Tekinz]] and [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:
  
Stickybomb Launcher
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::::::Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.
  
{| class="wikitable grid" width="50%"
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::::::mgpt:
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;
! class="header" width="10%" | Function
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";
! class="header" width="10%" | Sound
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;
|-
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 4. You got my vote, very good;
| Primary Fire
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::::::{{c|-|Disagree}} 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;
| (Primary Fire sound file)
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::::::{{c|Info}} 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;
|-
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in [[Brigade Helm]]? If so, I don't see a problem;
| Primary Fire Charge Up
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::::::{{c|Info}} 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? [https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C] Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;
| (Charge Up sound file)
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::::::{{c|+|Agree}} 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;
|-
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::::::{{c|Info}} 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of [[Beaten and Bruised]], the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;
| Alternate Fire - Bomb Detination
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::::::{{c|Info}} I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
| (Bomb Detination sound file)
 
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| Reload
 
| (Reload sound file)
 
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:::::::I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:
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:::::::7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of [[Stout Shako]];
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:::::::7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. '''Post-thoughts:''' After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.
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:::::::8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the [[Boarder's Beanie]] images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.
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:::::::9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
  
{| class="wikitable grid" width="50%"
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{{Outdent|7}} 1 {{c|?|Not sure}} It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.<br>
|-
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2/3 {{c|+|Agree}} It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!<br>
! class="header" width="10%" | Function
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4 {{c|+|Agree}} Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)<br>
! class="header" width="10%" | Sound
+
5 {{c|-|Disagree}} On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.<br>
|-
+
6 {{c|?|Not sure}} I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.<br>
| Level 1 - Primary Fire
+
7 {{c|?|Not sure}} I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.<br>
| (Primary Fire sound file)
+
8 {{c|+|Agree}} I agree with the others on this point, {{tl|Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.<br>
 +
9 {{c|-|Disagree}} See #8<br>
 +
[[User:H20verdrive|H20verdrive]] ([[User talk:H20verdrive|talk]]) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:
 +
:1. {{c|+|Agree}} Very good stuff.
 +
:2. {{c|?|Abstain}} Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.
 +
:3. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.
 +
:4. {{c|+|Agree}} Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.
 +
:5. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} Seems alright.
 +
:6. {{c|?|Abstain}} It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.
 +
:7. {{c|+|Weak Agree}} As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.
 +
:8. {{c|+|Agree}} Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.
 +
:9. {{c|-|Weak Disagree}} As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.
 +
:Overall, if I had to give a vote for the ''whole package'', {{c|+|Agree, with tweaking}}.--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:
 +
{| class="wikitable"
 
|-
 
|-
| Level 1 - Target Sighted
+
| Suggestion 1 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''7''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
| (Target Sighted sound file)
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Level 1 - Idle
+
| Suggestion 2 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''7''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
| (Idle sound file)
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Level 2 - Primary Fire
+
| Suggestion 3 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''9''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
| (Primary Fire sound file)
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Level 2 - Target Sighted
+
| Suggestion 4 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''10''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''0'''
| (Target Sighted sound file)
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Level 2 - Idle
+
| Suggestion 5 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''4''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''4''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
| (Idle sound file)
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Level 3 - Primary Fire
+
| Suggestion 6 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''4''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}:  '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''4'''
| (Primary Fire sound file)
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Level 3 - Rocket Fire
+
| Suggestion 7 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''8''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''0''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''1'''
| (Rocket Fire sound file)
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Level 3 - Target Sighted
+
| Suggestion 8 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''8''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''1''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''2'''
| (Target Sighted sound file)
 
 
|-
 
|-
| Level 3 - Idle
+
| Suggestion 9 || {{c|+|Agree}}: '''2''' || {{c|-|Disagree}}: '''3''' || {{c|?|Abstain}}: '''4'''
| (Idle sound file)
 
 
|}
 
|}
 +
My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature Icon.png|15px|Headphones style when?|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.png|link=User:Gabrielwoj]] ▪ [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png|link=Special:Contribs/Gabrielwoj]] - [[File:User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png|link=User talk:Gabrielwoj]] 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
 +
== Userbox, and creator page ==
  
Ect. So yeh what do you guys think? Do-able? Not needed? Also note that these are mock up tables and they can be changed around with the formatting -- [[User:No-oneSpecial|{{TF2B|text = No-oneSpecial| quality = vintage | size = 13px}}]] [[File:Killicon_flamethrower.png|50px|link=User:No-oneSpecial]] <small>([[User_talk:No-oneSpecial|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/No-oneSpecial|contribs]])</small> 05:38, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
+
Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
:{{c|Oppose}} The problem with audio files is that you have to open them up in a separate page to hear them, and it's not exactly convenient. Plus, the weapons demonstration videos demonstrate it quite well. --[[User:LordKelvin|LordKelvin]] 06:06, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::{{c|Comment}} Currently though the Class Response pages don't require you to open new pages to play sound files. You click on them and they ask if you just want to play them or save them or cancel. Why would it be different? And I thought about that too but most of the Weapon Demonstration videos have the Team Fortress tune playing in the background. The point is to just be that sound only. -- [[User:No-oneSpecial|{{TF2B|text = No-oneSpecial| quality = vintage | size = 13px}}]] [[File:Killicon_flamethrower.png|50px|link=User:No-oneSpecial]] <small>([[User_talk:No-oneSpecial|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/No-oneSpecial|contribs]])</small> 06:14, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::{{c|Support}} The weapon demonstrations are only half the battle. For instance, you cannot hear the Eyelander whispering. These sound files would serve as a valuable tool for players to familiarise themselves with the sound on the battlefield, or to use them for their own purposes.--<span style="color:purple">'''''Focusknock'''''</span> 10:20, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Support}} I'd prefer that it would be on it's own page, "Weapon sounds for class X". Other than that, I really like the idea. [[User:Ailure|Ailure]] 10:47, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Neutral}} I don't know it doesn't seems that useful on certain page, but adding it for every weapon seems a bit much, and on a new page for each class completely off. We could create a single page like [[Weapons sounds]] with all the sound, something like we did with the [[Responses|class responses]] pages, and then add links inside the weapon page to this other page (more work but less small pages that would get merge over time). If anyone feel like trying he can create a sandbox, it will be reviewed for sure. [[File:Killicon_ambassadorhs_unused.png|50px|link=User:Tturbo]] [[User:Tturbo|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#476291 ">Tturbo</span>]] <sub><sub>([[User talk:Tturbo|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Tturbo|C]])</sub></sub> 12:16, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::{{c|Neutral}} Yeh that works too. I thought that because each item only had a few sounds each it would still be ok to add to the weapons individual page, but if you feel that a class page that covers all weapons that class uses would be better then I'm all for that too. I'll try it but I don't know how to get all the sounds file :S. I've got holidays coming up in about 4 weeks so if I know how to get the sounds by then I can power through them. -- [[User:No-oneSpecial|{{TF2B|text = No-oneSpecial| quality = vintage | size = 13px}}]] [[File:Killicon_flamethrower.png|50px|link=User:No-oneSpecial]] <small>([[User_talk:No-oneSpecial|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/No-oneSpecial|contribs]])</small> 02:04, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Oppose}} I could've sworn someone already asked an Admin here about doing this, and was told it was a bad idea. And I think I replied to the discussion too. With that being said, I am opposed. Everyone knows what every weapon sounds like. It's not hard to distinguish which weapon is which. And really, do we need like 100+ more sounds on the Wiki? [[User:404 User Not Found|404 User Not Found]] 15:10, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::You seem to making very rash generalisations there. Everyone knows what every weapon sounds like? Do you know everybody then? Have you asked them? Furthermore, yes, yes we do need 100+ more sounds because well, the wiki is meant to document everything to do with TF2 and that includes the sounds in the game. Why don't we need 100+ more sounds, is what I put to you. --<span style="color:purple">'''''Focusknock'''''</span> 18:27, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::{{c|Neutral}} What Focus said was pretty much my thinking. While I'm sure someone has bought about this topic before, the fact of the matter remains that as this is the wiki we should be providing everything related to the game, so that's every image, every video, and every sound file.  Plus the audio pages now seem a bit neglected, so this will give us a chance to overhaul them too. -- [[User:No-oneSpecial|{{TF2B|text = No-oneSpecial| quality = vintage | size = 13px}}]] [[File:Killicon_flamethrower.png|50px|link=User:No-oneSpecial]] <small>([[User_talk:No-oneSpecial|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/No-oneSpecial|contribs]])</small> 02:04, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::{{c|Oppose|Still opposed}} Actually, I'm not making "rash generalizations". As it just so happens, I found the discussion I was talking about. Turns out it was for Saxton Hale responses, and a user wanting to upload voice clips. It wasn't for weapon sounds. Regardless, I don't think anybody in their right mind is gonna come to the Wiki looking for weapon sounds, and actually sit for several hours waiting meticulously for each sound to load and listen to them. I realize this is a Wiki and we should provide information, but adding weapon sounds under the context of "helping people figure out what each weapon sounds like".....it just seems silly. [[User:404 User Not Found|404 User Not Found]] 05:29, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Neutral}} Hmm, I think the idea is pretty good! I do not know why, but the player can hear the sound ... You know, this is the same as the quote, when you press the button "Play" then playing sound ... The same thing.[[File:Killicon_ambassadorhs_unused.png|50px|link=User:Tturbo]] [[User:TheUrbanist|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#476291 ">TheUrbanist</span>]] <sub><sub>([[User talk:TheUrbanist|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/TheUrbanist|C]])</sub></sub> 20:45, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Support}} I like this idea, but the weapon sounds should be on a new page. [[User:Ohyeahcrucz|Ohyeahcrucz]] 15:48, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{C|Oppose}} I think the argument for comprehensiveness or "we should because we can" are flawed. We don't server every morsel of information that is possible to extract from the game... we serve targeted information to people with a genune want for it. Believe it or not, the number of people who will actually come by and read the wiki for info on a weapon who have not heard that weapon is a small number. Adding sounds makes sense for weapons that have a strong tactical advantage for knowing what they sound like (e.g. the Buff Banner/other banners). -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sub>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sub> 08:02, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Neutral}} I think the idea is fine, but why would someone want to listen to the sounds of the weapons when they can hear them all the time on the game? [[User:DeagleEagle|DeagleEagle]] 16:25, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:: I do not see how this is a logical explanation. Going on this, half the wiki, by your reasoning, would be obsolete. It should not be a question of whether the information is accessible in the game, but whether a reasonable viewer would be willing to know it. And I believe a reasonable person would see the weapon sounds as a benefit. --<span style="color:purple">'''''[[User:Focusknock|Focusknock]]'''''</span> 21:41, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Team Fortress Classic - Forgotten ... ==
 
 
 
Hello all, My nickname is TheUrbanist, and I'm the new editor of your site.
 
 
 
Well, I've been looking through the section of TFC, and it seems to me that I can focus on this section because there should be much work. Well, this is my first post on this site, I now have about 100 edits, and 4 days on the site, I'm trying to make this site better :)... Thank you for your attention. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:TheUrbanist|TheUrbanist]]''' ([[User talk:TheUrbanist|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/TheUrbanist|contribs]]) </small>
 
:Welcome to the community. Feel free to edit the TFC section, it's true that we don't edit TFC section that much because TF2 section is where the majority of changes occur. <br> PS: Don't forget to sign your comments using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. [[File:Killicon_ambassadorhs_unused.png|50px|link=User:Tturbo]] [[User:Tturbo|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#476291 ">Tturbo</span>]] <sub><sub>([[User talk:Tturbo|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Tturbo|C]])</sub></sub> 18:35, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::Yes, thanks. Also, I can add articles are gone, in English and make a Russian version of the page. [[User:TheUrbanist|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#476291 ">TheUrbanist</span>]] 11:51, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::I would also like to welcome you to the community. I do a lot of work on the TFC section of the wiki. If you have any questions, or need help testing anything let me know on my talk page or you can usually find me on the IRC. [[User:K-Mac|K-Mac]][[File:Tfccivilian_thumb.png|25px]] <small>([[User talk:K-Mac|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/K-Mac|Contrib]])</small> 07:00, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::::Oh no, thanks, I have got Team Fortress Classic in the Steam, And I may to test some things, if it need for me and for Wiki. I do not know what IRC channel, but as soon as possible get registered on it. Thank you for your attention. [[User:TheUrbanist|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#476291 ">TheUrbanist</span>]] 12:34, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::::You can read [[IRC|this]] little IRC-tutorial if you want to join it. --[[User:Picard|Picard]] <sup>[[User talk:Picard|talk]]</sup> 16:47, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 
No offense urbanist, but why is this on the discussion page? [[User:Pierow|Pierow]] 09:43, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 
 
 
== Request for input on some userboxes I've made ==
 
 
 
Alrighty, some of you may have seen these on my sandbox already, some may have not. I've created several alternate userboxes on my sandbox and I want some community input on them. As well, I have some questions that I would like answers to before I go and start creating actual Templates for them. The userboxes in question are [[User:404_User_Not_Found/Sandbox#Project_2:_Item_Userbox_Revamp|here on my sandbox]].
 
 
 
Now, I would have created a general purpose item userbox that allowed a user to input a quality, and the box's border, background, and link color would change based on the quality, but I have no clue how and was told on IRC to forget about it as that type of thing can bog down the Wiki...or something. It'd be nice if someone who knew how to do this would help me out. I have an idea as to how to make the image change by simply inputting an items full name, and I will be testing that very soon, but the quality color thing eludes me. '''Onto the questions...'''
 
  
#What do you guys think of them?
+
:For userboxes see [[Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes]]. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{tl|User infobox}}.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
#What should I name each template? I don't want to overwrite current templates like [[Template:User_Heros_Hachimaki]]. I could do "User Heros Hachimaki Alt". Or I could do "Template:User GenHerosHachimaki". Anyone have a good naming system for them?
 
  
I don't want to start creating templates using my userbox revamp until I get some community input on them. As the creator, obviously I think they look good and obviously I'd use them. But what do '''YOU''' think? [[User:404 User Not Found|404 User Not Found]] 17:07, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
+
::Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
: I think userboxes are just an editor's means of piddling about and sprucing up their user page. It doesn't warrant a large in depth discussion with the majority of the wiki. /putdown  --<span style="color:purple">'''''Focusknock'''''</span> 17:59, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:: <nowiki>:(</nowiki> That's mean, lol. I just wanted to know if you guys like them, and what naming scheme I should use. [[User:404 User Not Found|404 User Not Found]] 18:18, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::They look decent to me. I was bored and whipped up a template with switching [[User:Moussekateer/userbox|here]]. You pass it the attributes <code>quality</code> and <code>item</code>. You can see an example [[User:Moussekateer/userbox/test|here]]. '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:83%;">—[[File:User Moussekateer signature sprite.png|31px|link=User:Moussekateer]][[User:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black">Moussekateer</span>]]·[[User talk:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]]</span>''' 18:55, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::::I like them, I was thinking of doing something like this for my item checkbox.  However the fill color seems a little dark to me. [[User:KillerKooK|KillerKooK]] 19:01, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:I like them :). I would make the text just a little larger as they're slightly hard to read against a colored background. [[User:Ailure|Ailure]]<span style="color:#69418b"> 猫</span><small>([[User talk:Ailure|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Ailure|contribs]])</small> 20:17, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::Great ideas :D And thanks for the awesome switching template, Mousse :D As for the darkness of the background, I used colors I eye-dropped from TF2Items. I think they look nice. So yeah, thanks for the excellent switchable version Mousse :D[[User:404 User Not Found|404 User Not Found]] 07:14, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 
  
== Delete all Memes on Class Pages / Add (User)Scripts on Class Pages ==
+
:::[[Help:Images]] may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using [[Special:Upload|the upload page]]. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include <nowiki>[[Category:User images]]</nowiki> in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.
  
First: I don't like how much the Main Class pages are expanding. The Memes are fanmade and should have an own category(somewhere hidden far far away), but not in the main article. Maybe "we" need a short profile article in the future, with just short/hard facts about the class in the game and then the smalltalk(collapsed until u want to know more). So remove all Memes, thx... = +10% better view of class articles 
+
:::As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Second: What is really needed and how to get the interest of the people? I want Scripts for specific classes which are helpful. Why? Because the inofficial wiki has it, and most of the guys are going there for gettin useful scripts. It is almost unfair not be able to tell the people in an article how you can do a rocket jump with just pressing one key. Key+bindings = awesome. I just want an open discussion about it.... = +20% New User, +60% Helpful for all Players(40% alrdy using them)
+
::::Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Third: I love you all guys but my english is still very bad, so ask if you don't get the idea of the points above. [[File:Killicon_samgun.png|20px]][[User:Godlike11219|NWM]][[File:Bksr.PNG|25px]] 18:01, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
+
== Civilian Image ==
  
: I don't know what wiki you're going on mate, but I'm looking at the Scout page and I'm not seeing any memes that are 'invading' your precious view (unless you count the Vince Offer stuff but you'd be clutching at straws). Class pages are fine. Also, scripts are user modifications to the game, and some players can do just fine without them. Your suggestion is akin to having a page devoted to all the skins people have made. It's not notable, and not necessary.--<span style="color:purple">'''''Focusknock'''''</span> 18:05, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
+
Should we change the image of the [[Civilian]] ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
 +
:That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, [[Civilian (Classic)]] is the TFC version.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
 +
::Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?[[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
== April Fools Day, 2011 ==
+
:::That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Ok guys, lets brainstorm ideas! Post your April Fools Day ideas here! Just a few guidlines.
+
== Weapon in user page ==
  
A) People still need to be able to use the Wiki normally. That means '''NO FALSE INFORMATION'''
+
Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
  
B) Avoid adding anything that is flashy or distracting
+
:Well, you could try learning how to use [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Table wikitables], there are also templates like [[Template:Backpack item]] and [[Template:User weapon checklist]] you could use to this effect.<br><span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
  
C) No auto-playing sounds allowed
+
== Allweapons Nav template ==
  
D) It has to be funny
+
Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current [[Template:Allweapons Nav|Allweapons Nav]] template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on [[User:Mgpt/Sandbox#Test|my sandbox user page]] ('''Nav 1''' and '''Nav 2'''). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in '''Nav 2''' appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
--[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 23:56, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 
  
:*Spy crabs ocassionally walking through the bottom of the screen;
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:I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
:*Episode 3 references;
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:: Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
:*Fake patch;
 
:{{n}} [[File:Duel_RED.png|link=User:EpicEric|20px|sub]] [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:
 
'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic</b></span>]] [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#B8383B;font-size:15px;font-family:
 
'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Eric</b></span>]]{{mod}} [[File:Duel_BLU.png|link=User:EpicEric|20px|sub]]<span style="font-size:10px"> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</span> 00:00, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
  
::{{c|neutral}} Spycrab banner could work as an animated GIF on the front page. As for the ep3 refrences, where would we even put them? And We cant add a fake patch, as that breaks rule A, and will just confuse people --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 00:02, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
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:::I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:I just suggest a 'slight' modification of the color scheme [[User:MogDog66|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#70B031">MogDog66</span>]] [[file:User MogDog66 Service Metal No WhiteSpace.png|22px|link=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:MogDog66]]<sub>[[User talk:MogDog66|t]]</sub> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/MogDog66|c]]</sub> <sub><span class="plainlinks">[http://steamcommunity.com/id/mogdog66 p]</span></sub> || 00:01, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
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:::::I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
  
::{{c|support}} That could work very well. As long as they aren't bright colors, or make the wiki hard to read, this would be perfect. Hell, the announcements could say that an admin accidentally spilled paint all over the wiki. --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 00:06, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
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{{outdent|5}} Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.  
  
::Hot Pink could be a good choice. '''[[User:GeminiViRiS|<font color="green" size="2px">GeminiViRiS</font>]]''' [[Image:User GeminiViRiS Doubleface.jpg|20px]] [[User_talk:GeminiViRiS|Talk]]{{md}}[[Special:Contributions/GeminiViRiS|Contribs]] 00:08, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
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Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."
:::{{c|neutral|Comment}}Ehh, I'd stray away from hot pink. Its a bit bright and distracting. Plus, it could be an eyesore. --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 00:15, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
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* That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
::::{{c|Agree|Suggestion}} Stevoisiak is right about the bright colors. Try something light, but not too light like The Color of a Gentlemann's Business Pants, or Mann Co. Orange. --[[User:Nihilus0|<span style="color:#FFD700 ;font-size:13px;font-family:'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;">Nihilus0</span>]][[File:Backpack_Lugermorph.png‎|25px|link=User_talk:Nihilus0]]<small>([[Special:Contributions/Nihilus0|contribs]])</small> 00:23, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
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* It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
: I made some changes, thanks for the input [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:::{{c|Support|That slaps me on the knee!}} I'd really like to see that! {{n}} [[File:Duel_RED.png|link=User:EpicEric|20px|sub]] [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:
+
:: Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make ''as much'' sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic</b></span>]] [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#B8383B;font-size:15px;font-family:
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::: I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Eric</b></span>]]{{mod}} [[File:Duel_BLU.png|link=User:EpicEric|20px|sub]]<span style="font-size:10px"> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</span> 00:09, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
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:::: Updated the template [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:*how about the spy sapping the wiki constantly.
+
== About the 2023 leak ==
:*sound quotes of the scout going off randomly.
 
:*references to Father Grigori.
 
:[[User:Awesomesauce|THE3STOOGES]] 00:05, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
  
::Well, 1 and 2 wont work, because we can't autoplay sounds. That'd just annoy the user. As for the Father Grigori refrences, where would we put the refrences? What would they say? be more specific --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 00:07, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
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Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
:I got it! We shrink the letters so you can barely read it at all,also the paint idea is really good. [[User:Awesomesauce|THE3STOOGES]] 00:15, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::{{c|Bad idea}} People still need to be able to use the wiki normally --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 00:17, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
  
:As I said on IRC: make [[User:Benjamuffin/Demopan|Demopan]] the featured article. --[[User:LordKelvin|LordKelvin]] 01:30, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
+
:As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the [[Team Fortress Wiki:Policies#Leaked content|leaked content policy]]. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
::Again? We've already done something like that before. {{n}} [[File:Duel_RED.png|link=User:EpicEric|20px|sub]] [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:
 
'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic</b></span>]] [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#B8383B;font-size:15px;font-family:
 
'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Eric</b></span>]]{{mod}} [[File:Duel_BLU.png|link=User:EpicEric|20px|sub]]<span style="font-size:10px"> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</span> 15:38, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
  
:The other option that has been discussed in the IRC is Focusknock's '''[[User:Focusknock/sandbox/Cow|article]]'''. Looks good to me! --- <font face="georgia">[[User:Esquilax|Esquilax]]</font> [[File:Killicon_pumpkin.png|50px|link=User:Esquilax]] <small>([[User_talk:Esquilax|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Esquilax|Contributions]])</small> 01:40, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
+
::So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
:What if I have a surprise planned? -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sub>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sub> 01:40, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
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:::Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
::Then I would hope that it would be the good kind of surprise ;). --- <font face="georgia">[[User:Esquilax|Esquilax]]</font> [[File:Killicon_pumpkin.png|50px|link=User:Esquilax]] <small>([[User_talk:Esquilax|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Esquilax|Contributions]])</small> 01:48, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::I'll take a guess, it would include topics discussed on here and IRC? --[[User:Nihilus0|<span style="color:#FFD700 ;font-size:13px;font-family:'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;">Nihilus0</span>]][[File:Backpack_Lugermorph.png‎|25px|link=User_talk:Nihilus0]]<small>([[Special:Contributions/Nihilus0|contribs]])</small> 01:51, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:Along with the Cow article, the paint and Pilk's suprise, we could replace class icons and names on the [[Main Page]] with Gang Garrison 2's {{n}} [[File:Duel_RED.png|link=User:EpicEric|20px|sub]] [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:
 
'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic</b></span>]] [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#B8383B;font-size:15px;font-family:
 
'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Eric</b></span>]]{{mod}} [[File:Duel_BLU.png|link=User:EpicEric|20px|sub]]<span style="font-size:10px"> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</span> 15:38, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::Why you ruin surprise :'( --<span style="color:purple">'''''[[User:Focusknock|Focusknock]]'''''</span> 15:43, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::::I'm sorry, old chum. Firstly, the general public does not read these pages (or if they do they would be a tiny minority), and I assumed that they were the target audience. Secondly, I wasn't aware that it was a surprise as you posted the details in the IRC some time ago. That being said, I'll make it up to you. Would you care for a Ginger Beer? :) --- <font face="georgia">[[User:Esquilax|Esquilax]]</font> [[File:Killicon_pumpkin.png|50px|link=User:Esquilax]] ([[File:Speech voice.png|30px|link=User_talk:Esquilax]] | [[File:Edit_icon.png|25px|link=Special:Contributions/Esquilax|Contributions]]) 02:01, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 
::::I'm more interested in what Pilk can create... That's should be fun. [[File:Killicon_ambassadorhs_unused.png|50px|link=User:Tturbo]] [[User:Tturbo|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#476291 ">Tturbo</span>]] <sub><sub>([[User talk:Tturbo|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Tturbo|C]])</sub></sub> 15:55, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::::'''''cow'''boy'' ya :3 [[File:Ghost_Particle.png|27px|link=Special:Contributions/Takamoto|]][[User:Takamoto|<span style="text-shadow:black 1px 2px 2px;"><font color=#141414  >'''_TaKamoto_'''</font></span>]] '''\'''[[File:Warnav_polypin_Item_Icon.png|20px|link=User_Talk:Takamoto]]'''/''' 03:00, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 
::::::What a mess! This is the worst of all that Valve could come up with. It would be better if this update is removed!--[[File:User Kost 2.jpg|40px|link=User:Kost|sub]] <sub>&nbsp;( [[File:Devcom.png|15px|link=User_talk:Kost|T]]|[[File:Intel neutral pickedup.png|20px|link=Special:Contributions/Kost|C]])</sub> 04:25, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
== Other Wiki ==
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::::I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! [[User:Nonolemage|Nonolemage]] ([[User talk:Nonolemage|talk]]) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
  
You know how at the bottom there is a reference to other wikis. well i found a new one that we ca add. It's called the '''Valve Developer Community Wiki'''. I think we should add this because this is a major reference. [[User:Awesomesauce|THE3STOOGES]] 00:40, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
+
== [[Template:Community Medal Nav|Community Medal Nav]] (closed) ==
:Thanks, added~ — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 00:45, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:Nevermind, it's not part of the "Valve Wiki Network", which is a mutual-linking thingy between the wikis involved. :( Was a good idea still, thanks for suggesting it — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 00:49, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
::Can't we just contact the Dev Wiki and ask if they'd like to be a part of the Wiki Network? [[User:MogDog66|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#70B031">MogDog66</span>]] [[file:User MogDog66 Service Metal No WhiteSpace.png|22px|link=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:MogDog66]]<sub>[[User talk:MogDog66|t]]</sub> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/MogDog66|c]]</sub> <sub><span class="plainlinks">[http://steamcommunity.com/id/mogdog66 p]</span></sub> || 01:40, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:::Pilk said that it's not community-runned, so, it is not going to be included into VWN.
 
  
== That bloody image cache problem. ==
+
I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{tl|Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Ok seriously, we need a new solution when it comes to this image cache issue. On March 22nd, I uploaded a new version of [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/File:Aw-Matador.png File:Aw-Matador.png] over the original, as Mecha's Advanced Weaponiser server has started using a different model for the Matador. The image cache issue struck and now both the File page for the image, and the image on [[Advanced Weaponiser]] is still showing the old Matador model image to this date.
+
:With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:: Would adding an [https://i.imgur.com/XeBjHCT.png 'Other' section with two links] for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "[[Template:Competitive Nav|Competitive play]]" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?
 +
:: Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
  
I've tried purging the AW page, the file page and the cached image, as well as CTRL+F5ing them. Nothings worked. I did upload the image of the new Matador model as "Aw-Matador2.png", and was quite annoyed when I noticed an admin had deleted it and reverted the change I made to the AW page shortly thereafter. ''(I didn't say anything. Kept my mouth shut. Regardless, I was quite annoyed)''.
+
:::I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
  
So that's why I'm posting this. We need a new solution to this image cache problem, and my suggested solutions are:
+
:::: I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
*If you are uploading a new version of an image, upload it as a new version. For example, if you are uploading a new version of '''Aw-Matador.png''', upload it as '''Aw-Matador2.png'''. Then label the original for deletion.
 
*Get Windpower to make WindBot stop crushing images. The image crushing, from what I can see, is what caused [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/File:Aw-Matador.png File:Aw-Matador.png] to get hit by the cache bug. I'm sure the image crushing by WindBot has also buggered up many other images.
 
  
Obviously, my suggestions aren't the best, so I'd like to hear some other ideas we could use to avoid this stupid cache problem. I've tried discussing alternate solutions on the IRC back on March 22nd, and was simply told to "upload a new version over the original". Frankly, I'm tired of uploading a new version of an image, only to have the cache screw up and continually display the old version.
+
::::: Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not ''exactly'' the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what ''I'' wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then ''that's'' wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
'''To our Admins, I suggest looking for whoever is the most knowledgeable with the image cache system on Wikipedia, and asking them for help. Either that or ask [http://www.wikia.com/wiki/User:Uberfuzzy Uberfuzzy at the Central Wikia].''' [[User:404 User Not Found|404 User Not Found]] 22:36, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
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:::::: They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely. <br>[[User:Cheddar|Cheddar]] ([[User talk:Cheddar|talk]]) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
:It's not MediaWiki, it's some server tweaks that Valve has made (Varnish cache, I bet, because I have to blame it on something). But no, all images are affected without exceptions, and it's the cache problems that '''cause''' WindBOT to go on a loop like this. :( Valve has been contacted about it already but AFAIK haven't replied. I will disable the crushing filter for now — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 22:38, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:I ''have'' let Jeff know about it. Everyone shares your frustration but we really don't have control over any of the server side settings. -- [[User:Pilk|Pilk]] <sub>([[User talk:Pilk|talk]])</sub> 22:40, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 
:: Does this work [http://www.varnish-cache.org/docs/2.1/tutorial/purging.html Varnish Purging] remotely? --[[User:Org|Org]] 06:59, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
== Crate Key ==
+
{{outdent|7}}
 +
By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.<br>
 +
I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.<br>
 +
Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Don't you think the Crate Key should also be available by drop? Because I have over 5 crates and i don't have any keys >:( <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:Sniper101|Sniper101]]''' ([[User talk:Sniper101|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/Sniper101|contribs]]) </small>
+
:If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
:This isn't a forum. The Steam forums can be found [http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80 here]. '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:83%;">[[File:User Moussekateer signature sprite.png|31px|link=User:Moussekateer]][[User:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black">Moussekateer</span>]]·[[User talk:Moussekateer|<span style="color:black;font-size:82%;">talk</span>]]</span>''' 05:43, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 
Its just something you have to deal with, because honestly i have over 40 crates. I've learned to live with that fact. Also making keys was obviously a major success for Valve. Why would they change that? Also they won't just give that all up due to a few kids like you complaining about crates. [[User:Froad05|Froad05]] 09:06, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
"I know right? Crate keys should at least be craftable, I mean come on. Who would give you a free crate but make you spend $2.49 for a key. By the way, i think i know the perfect craft recipe for the crate key. How about 1 reclaimed metal+1 crate=1 key? Just saying.
+
:: So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes  "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.
[[User:The Ultimate Medic]]
 
  
== Recent Additions ==
+
:: I ''would'' fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::: ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{tl|Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Seeing that the Japan hats are still listed as recent additions, but the Shogun pack is not, how long must an item be available for it to have this tag removed? [[User:SnowCanary|SnowCanary]] 12:59, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
+
:::: That didn't ''matter'' when some of those event pages, for '''years''', had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a ''new'' nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.  
:We don't really have a fixed rule stating after X days the tag gets removed. I personally remove them when I'm confident to say that I think the article covers all aspects of the item, meaning I usually untag hats faster than weapons. So yes, I'll remove those tags now. --[[User:CruelCow|CruelCow]] {{sta}} <sup>([[User_talk:CruelCow|talk]])</sup> 13:11, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
== See also section tables ==
+
:::: Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. — [[File:User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png|30px|link=User:ThatHatGuy]] 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::: closed given the recent discussion [[User:Mgpt|Mgpt]] ([[User talk:Mgpt|talk]]) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
Would the ''See Also'' sections on certain articles benefit from a table or other visual representation of the ''See Also'' items? (when applicable)
+
== Trivias without confirmations ==
  
For example, on [[Mercenary]],
+
Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::What about [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Crafty_Hair#Trivia this one]? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia [[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
::::"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
 +
:::::Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. [[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
  
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
+
::::::Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
|-
 
| width="20%" | {{item icon|size=90px|Soldier of Fortune|link=Soldier of Fortune}}
 
| width="20%" | {{item icon|size=90px|Grizzled Veteran|link=Grizzled Veteran}}
 
| width="20%" | {{item icon|size=90px|Primeval Warrior|link=Primeval Warrior}}
 
|-
 
! style="background:#f9d483;" | [[Soldier of Fortune]]
 
! style="background:#f9d483;" | [[Grizzled Veteran]]
 
! style="background:#f9d483;" | [[Primeval Warrior]]
 
|}
 
  
 +
== Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data ==
  
Or something a bit less obtrusive:
+
It seems like a very [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Reports/Untranslated_templates/fr|handy feature]] (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?<br>
 +
I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe [[User:Darkid|Darkid]]?<br>
 +
Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
  
 +
:For the [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Template:Overheal_tool first result] it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. [[User:Jh34ghu43gu|Jh34ghu43gu]] ([[User talk:Jh34ghu43gu|talk]]) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 +
::I can take a look, thanks for the ping. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] — [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
  
{| style="text-align:center; font-size:90%;" cellpadding="2"
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:::Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.
|-
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:::I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
| {{item icon|size=75px|Soldier of Fortune|link=Soldier of Fortune}}
+
::::Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. [[User:Darkid|'''<span style="color: #db9c1f">Darkid</span>''']] « [[User talk:Darkid|<span style="color: #75735F">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Darkid|<span style="color: #BA0000">Contribs</span>]] » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
| {{item icon|size=75px|Grizzled Veteran|link=Grizzled Veteran}}
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:::::+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. <span style="background:#393939;padding:2px 12px;font-family: TF2 Build;font-size: 1em;border-radius: 10px 10px 10px 10px;">[[User:Luno|Luno]] <span style="color:#FC0;letter-spacing:-2px">🪐🌕</span> [[User talk:Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Talk</span>]] <span style="color:#559655;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Special:Contributions/Luno|<span style="color:#fff">Contributions</span>]] <span style="color:#538AC5;letter-spacing:-2px">/</span> [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress/fr|<span style="color:#4d748b">T</span><span style="color:#fff">ea</span><span style="color:#ab4848">m</span>]]</span> 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
| {{item icon|size=75px|Primeval Warrior|link=Primeval Warrior}}
 
|-
 
! [[Soldier of Fortune]]
 
! [[Grizzled Veteran]]
 
! [[Primeval Warrior]]
 
|}
 
- [[User:LingoSalad|<font face="TF2 Build" color="#990099"><big>L</big>ingo<big>S</big>alad</font>]]<sub> ([[User_talk:LingoSalad|talk]])</sub> 19:27, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
:{{c|Neutral}}: I feel that it's a bit too situational since lots of pages in the "See Also" sections link to things like bundles and/or other strategy pages. For instance, how would you approach [[Humanitarian's Hachimaki]], which contains links to items ''and'' the [[Japan Charity Bundle]], which does not have an icon? It's a bit hard to do consistently. --[[User:LordKelvin|LordKelvin]] 19:35, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
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== A technical request for "Used by" template ==
::{{c|Oppose}} i think that the "See Also" dont need to be like that, if it does, u'll be already showing the stuff through those tables :S, and theres the icon problem too as LordKelvin already said [[File:Killicon deflect ball.png|50px|link=Special:Contributions/Takamoto|]][[User:Takamoto|<span style="color:#E6E6E6  ; font-family: Tf2 Build;"> '''_Takamoto_'''</span>]]  '''''[[File:Stunned.png|40px|link=User_Talk:Takamoto]]''''' 20:12, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Oppose}} The see also section should be a small discrete section. Plus, if they wanted to see an image of the item they would just click the link. [[User:MogDog66|<span style="font-family:TF2 Build; color:#70B031">MogDog66</span>]] [[file:User MogDog66 Service Metal No WhiteSpace.png|22px|link=http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/User:MogDog66]]<sub>[[User talk:MogDog66|t]]</sub> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/MogDog66|c]]</sub> <sub><span class="plainlinks">[http://steamcommunity.com/id/mogdog66 p]</span></sub> || 20:16, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
== Translated names ==
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"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "<nowiki>{{Used by|all}}</nowiki>" and "<nowiki>{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}</nowiki>" sound fine, but "<nowiki>{{Used by|all-except|</nowiki>" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "<nowiki>{{Used by|all-except|</nowiki>"):
 +
:Scout = Skauta
 +
:Soldier = Żołnierza
 +
:Pyro = Pyro
 +
:Demoman = Demomana
 +
:Heavy = Grubego
 +
:Enginner = Inżyniera
 +
:Medic = Medyka
 +
:Sniper = Snajpera
 +
:Spy = Szpiega
 +
[[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
  
We're getting fire from the [[User_talk:WindPower#Hello_again:|chinese translators]] and the Portguese ones about which names to use. It was also brought to my attention that there is [https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1uOSRUNL0QUkvLSTt23t30_m1az9kUjB846fNMKwNfik&hl=en&authkey=CNrh8pEN&pli=1 a document floating around off-wiki] being used to guide portuguese translators, without having received any review from the staff and stuff. What do? AFAIK, the policy is to use the Valve-provided ones (in tf_somelanguage.txt) whenever possible, and use English if there are no such strings. Is that not the case? What should we do about all pages using the inconsistent policy? (Disclaimer: I'm back from a multiple-weeks mostly-hiatus and haven't been able to find time to keep up with the wiki/TF2 in general, so I might be completely late here but it's 3 AM and I wanna get this out of the way) — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 06:54, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
+
:These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] | [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] | [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
:I don't know about the other languages, but TF2 isn't translated to Brazilian Portuguese, only to European Portuguese, so we use English names in the articles. That may change if TF2 is translated to the Brazilian Portuguese.{{n}}[[File:Awesome.png|20px|sub]] [[User:Ohyeahcrucz|<span style="text-shadow:blue 0px 0px 3px;font-size:15px;font-family:comic sans MS"><font color="blue">Ohyeahcrucz]]</font></span><span style="font-size:8px;font-weight:bold;"><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:Ohyeahcrucz|T]]<nowiki>][</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Ohyeahcrucz|C]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></span> 07:00, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
+
::Thanks. I've moved it there. [[File:User Denied signature.jpg|50px|link=User:Denied]] [[User:Denied|Denied]] [[User talk:Denied|(Talk)]] 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
  
:That's mostly the case, but it should be left up to translators themselves to agree on what is best. We shouldn't accept some blanket position as there are going to be special cases (like pt-br, where item names aren't translated (this may be limited to the wiki only, not sure)). '''TL;DR''' we shouldn't be dictating to translators how to write in their language if we can't read / understand / speak fluently ourselves. Let them decide. [[user:seb26|<small style="background:#f9f9f9;border:1px solid #EA6B1C;padding:0em 0.5em;color:#000;-webkit-box-shadow:2px 1px 1px #FBAA78;">'''seb26'''</small>]] 07:02, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
+
== Where can I interact with the community? ==
  
:Maybe I'm just dumb, but that document looks like it mainly uses dictionary terms for common names, but not many actual names. I would say, specific ones like "Mann Co. Store" or "Steam Community" or whatnot should use the English equivalent, while anything that can be much more easily understood in that language (say, "Kill" and "Screenshot") should probably be left to the discretion of the translator. --[[Image:User LordKelvin Signature.png|link=User talk:LordKelvin|80px]] [[User:LordKelvin|<span style="text-shadow:#0031CF 0px 0px 3px;"><font color="#000087"><big>'''LordKelvin'''</big></font>]]</span> 07:05, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
+
Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.
  
:If TF2 is not translated into Brazilian Portuguese, then why are we bothering to have this discussion in the first place? The in-game files have the game translated into European Portuguese and this should be used. As stated by many Brazilian Portuguese speakers there are major differences in the language, if this is the case why doesn't Brazilian Portuguese have their own section?
+
[[User:QS Quark|QS Quark]] ([[User talk:QS Quark|talk]]) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
  
:As a Spanish translator I strive to keep true to the words used by the in-game files, although I personally would not translate some things in that fashion, it still stands that I should not use words which are used in say Venezuela when trying to describe something. An example would be the word Cojer. In Venezuela and other Latin American countries this means "To pick up" "To take" in Spain however this means "To have sexual intercourse"  
+
:You can join the [[IRC]] if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
  
:It is up to the pt-br community to come to a consensus on this and so long as they are happy with how they want to do it then fantastic. However informing the community as a whole would also be rather handy so an event like the one that happened today (me adding quite a few translated weapon names to the pt-br dictionary from the in-game files tf_portuguese.txt) does not spark off a discussion which could upset anyone. I apologise profusely to the pt-br team, I am new here and I only went by the rules I was taught in the IRC channel with regards to the use of words etc.
+
== April fool's? ==
  
:[[user:BiBi|<small style="background:#f6f6f6;border:1px solid #006666;padding:0em
+
I've been absent a bit because of health issues lately, sorry, but I noticed there's no April Fools thing this year there? :(--[[File:Leaderboard class allclass.png|15px|link=]] [[User:Akolyth|<span style="font-size: 14px; font-family: Trebuchet MS">'''Akolyth'''</span>]] ([[User_talk:Akolyth|talk]]) 02:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
0.5em;color:#000;-webkit-box-shadow:2px 1px 1px #006666;">'''BiBi'''</small>]]   07:28, 9 April 2011 (UTC) ''<-- Stolen from Seb (Sowwy I had to give myself something, I'll look for something different soon =3)''
 
  
:: The wiki is being translated to pt-br because Steam is translated to pt-br, just check the Steam Translation Server, and you will see Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese. Currently TF2 is only translated to European Portuguese, but if it is translated to pt-br, then we will start translating the names. {{User:Ohyeahcrucz/Sig2}} 07:31, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
+
: Probably, yes. Since I didn't notice anything relate to April fools event other than the page itself (normally there will be someone create a April fools sandbox page before April fools event).[[User:Profiteer|<font color="8470FF">Profiteer]] the tryhard ([[User talk:Profiteer|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Profiteer|contribute]])</font> 03:45, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
::: I think even if we get a pt-br steam, some names still wont be translated due to grammar rules, "you cant translate english names to portuguese", mainly the weapon's names (f.e. the commom Desert Eagle from CSS, we'll never translate it to ''Águia do Deserto''). But the engine stuff, of course, those will get translated, like the menu interface, etc etc [[File:Killicon deflect ball.png|50px|link=Special:Contributions/Takamoto|]][[User:Takamoto|<span style="color:#E6E6E6  ; font-family: Tf2 Build;"> '''_Takamoto_'''</span>]]  '''''[[File:Stunned.png|40px|link=User_Talk:Takamoto]]''''' 09:19, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:::: The rules we use on PT-BR translations are the ones already defined by other translators in STS, so once it's released, we'll have the Wiki already ready. {{n}} [[File:Duel_RED.png|link=User:EpicEric|20px|sub]] [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:
 
'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic</b></span>]] [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#B8383B;font-size:15px;font-family:
 
'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Eric</b></span>]]{{mod}} [[File:Duel_BLU.png|link=User:EpicEric|20px|sub]]<span style="font-size:10px"> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</span> 15:09, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
== 'Staff' ==
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::The only thing that was planned was a patch, no other efforts were made, unfortunately.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 08:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
  
A common belief in the community is that the TF2 Wiki is run by a closed-in, elitist bunch of dicks who undo all your edits (need a paraphrasin' here). Well whether it is or it isn't, I think we can do a little to avoid this impression by dropping this 'staff' collective title and just go back to old 'mods and admins'. We aren't 'staff' in the usual sense, all we have is extra permissions when it comes to editing, so I think that calling it what it is would be the better option here. The word 'staff' seems kind of alienating (to me anyway) and we should be trying to encourage people to help, instead of scaring them off. Just my opinion~ [[user:seb26|<small style="background:#f9f9f9;border:1px solid #EA6B1C;padding:0em 0.5em;color:#000;-webkit-box-shadow:2px 1px 1px #FBAA78;">'''seb26'''</small>]] 06:16, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
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== TFC logo feedback ==
:The word was chosen because it encompasses all hierarchy levels (besides regular users) in order to flatten the hierarchy (which is a good thing). I don't know if canceling that is worth doing over public representation (lol PR), but if there's a synonym for staff that doesn't sound intimidating and encompasses everyone then yay — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 06:27, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 
::'Overlords' sounds better. Oh, or 'Wikimasters.' 'Wikimancer?' [[User:Mar|Mar]] 06:30, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 
::Well, there really only is 3 levels of permissions (normal mod, admin & bcrat). The permissions given to the latter are used so infrequently that it can just be ignored, leaving only mods and admins. This seems to be what most other Internet forums & whatnot have as well. Yes it does kind of flatten everyone, but now, I think it's also having the negative effect of increasing the gap between normal users & mods. Now, 'staff' sounds official, like we've been given some official authority to systemically kill all your contributions, it sounds too elitist and I think it's something we need to get rid of. [[user:seb26|<small style="background:#f9f9f9;border:1px solid #EA6B1C;padding:0em 0.5em;color:#000;-webkit-box-shadow:2px 1px 1px #FBAA78;">'''seb26'''</small>]] 06:36, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:Honestly, if someone wants to slander or think bad things about the people who maintenance the wiki, then a different name won't change their minds. If we use "moderators and admins" or "Wiki Team" or whatever, then they'll still say "Why are the Wiki mods and admins such dicks?" or "Why is the Wiki Team so douchey?" or what have you.
 
:In my opinion, this is the price we pay for maintaining a high-quality Wiki. Most of the people who say bad things about it seem to be part of the crowd that adds bad trivia or bad strategy tips, so really it's a matter of them not reading the guidelines properly. We ''could'' implement a warning to read the trivia guidelines before editing every time someone edits a trivia section, but the only other real alternative is to change the trivia guidelines, and that would result in quality reduction that would be unacceptable. --{{User:LordKelvin/Signature}} 06:44, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 
::It's a fair point, but I believe that where a name change will help the most will be in our own general attitude. If we're not thinking of every edit as a battle of users vs. 'staff' then I think it'll do much to change the way we welcome new users not just into editing, but into our community. It's true though, the criticism aspect won't change, people will still call us or think of us as whatever, but I think the greater change should be for us, and how we confront new people and whatnot. It's a lot of hope going into just a simple rename but I really think that it'll really do a lot of good in the longer run. [[user:seb26|<small style="background:#f9f9f9;border:1px solid #EA6B1C;padding:0em 0.5em;color:#000;-webkit-box-shadow:2px 1px 1px #FBAA78;">'''seb26'''</small>]] 06:56, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
:I can see where Seb is coming from with his point. I believe that a tweak could greatly benefit the community. Now, I say this not because I have in any way felt alienated or found you guys to be unhelpful, quite the opposite in fact. My opinions are purely based on my experience coming from a position similar to the one you guys address in this discussion. If you see that there seems to be a division which could be affecting the dynamics in the community, it is very wise and thoughtful to address them. If we break down everything to its bare bones, we have one thing that keeps us all in the same level and I believe this is "Wanting to help the TF2 community by providing a quality source of information in the form of a Wiki site". If Admins & Moderators push this thought into their own mind set and help propagate it to the rest of the community it would show all that no one here is better than any one else. It would certainly bridge that possible gap that some of you are experiencing. Admins & Mods have been given "tools" that empowers them to help the rest of the community to effectively achieve the common goal, but if those tools are taken away the roles of said individuals would still be no different in that we would all continue to strive for the same outcome.
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Hey folks,
  
:As a new contributor I can safely say that I'd like to see clearer defined roles. For instance, if you are a Localization Moderator, I'd like to know which language you are affiliated with. If you are one of the Mods/Admins that deals with nuts & bolts (bots/scripts, etc) then I'd like to know who that is. If your speciality as Mod is people skills and you are able to help resolve disputes and contributor problems, I'd like to know whom you maybe. '''TF2 Wiki Team''' seems like a reasonable name; for it would en-composite not only Bureaucrats/Admins/Mods but also include all contributors (regular editors) to that group. Clearly defined roles will not make large divides in our community so long as those up top don't let it get to their heads and always drive home that in the grand scheme of things we are all equal. It also means that those of us that are regulars need to understand that regardless of how small or big a contribution, they are all valued and that any support they need an admin/mod will always be in hand to help them out.
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We're considering creating a special version of the [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/skins/valve/wiki_logo.png?e0a71 wiki logo] for [[:Category:Team_Fortress_Classic|Classic]] pages because we think it would add a nice touch. You can check out our current iteration here: [https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/8/80/User_GrampaSwood_TFC_logo_wiki_small_alt_fixed_font_small.png logo] [https://i.imgur.com/uHb7rai.png example].
  
:TL;DR: Name should be '''TF2 Wiki Team''' which would embrace everyone in the community that contributes to the site.  [[user:BiBi|<small style="background:#f6f6f6;border:1px solid #006666;padding:0em
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This logo would only be visible on pages with the "(Classic)" suffix, so it shouldn't affect other types of pages (TF2 and QTF, in particular - we'll of course test it beforehand, similar to our current localized logos test).
0.5em;color:#000;-webkit-box-shadow:2px 1px 1px #006666;">'''BiBi'''</small>]]  08:56, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 
::{{c|Support}} [[Media:Heavy specialweapon09.wav|Yes, I like dis nou weapon]]. :3 — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 22:13, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 
::Well i think Seb is right and we should welcome them, but really there just mad that there edits got undone,i remember i got mad when i got alot of undone edits,so maybe we should give them a precaution before they edit a page.Changing The name really won't do anything so we should respect them and they should respect Us. They are just as equal as them but some people have different privileges and different powers.So we should have a special template that lists what people do like who does redirects and who cleans up pages.Also i think we should have some pages locked so people don't mess it up.Like Fully Finished Pages. [[User:Awesomesauce|THE3STOOGES]] 22:34, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
: On a side note, I believe Pilk was thinking of a new system that replaced the staff with a more community friendly hierarchy.--<span style="color:purple">'''''[[User:Focusknock|Focusknock]]'''''</span> 11:34, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
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But what I'm really here for is to gather feedback. Do you have any strong opinions ''against it''? Maybe a new design in mind? Please let us know! — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 14:42, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
  
== Update History on Class pages ==
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:{{Pro}} I like it, for obvious reasons. I've been using it myself as a subtitute for the regular logo for a while now, and I've grown quite used to it, so I can personally say that you'll get used to it even if it looks a bit odd from the start.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 14:45, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
  
what do you guys think of creating a update history section on class pages, because i noticed that theres some ''trivias'' that are like this: "''As of the December 17, 2010 Patch Spies no longer speak Domination or Revenge lines, regardless of weapons equipped"''. shouldn't that be part of an Update History? ''[[File:Killicon deflect ball.png|50px|link=Special:Contributions/Takamoto|]][[User:Takamoto|<span style="color:#E6E6E6  ; font-family: Tf2 Build;"> '''_Takamoto_'''</span>]]  '''''[[File:Stunned.png|40px|link=User_Talk:Takamoto]]''''' 16:26, 10 April 2011 (UTC)''
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::{{Pro}} I like it too, I feel like it adds to the fact that this is the '''Team Fortress''' wiki, not just the Team Fortress '''2''' wiki, in a way. Personally, I don't think I would have any negative opinions against it, since a lot of times you're focused more on an article than the top left corner of the screen. Either way, I feel like it's a welcome, if small, touch to the wiki. ♡ [[User:JupiterSphere|<span style="color:#ffbb57">JupiterSphere</span>]] ♡ ( ◡‿◡ *) ⊱✿⊰ [[User talk:JupiterSphere|<span style="color:#b97ecf">Talk To Me!</span>]] ⊱✿⊰ 14:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
:There was a [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Discussion/Archive_8#Update_History_for_classes|discussion]] on this back in February, but it didn't seem to gain much traction. Since it met with overall approval, there's no real reason not do do it, I guess. --{{User:LordKelvin/Signature}} 19:09, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:: I have brought this discussion up previously with a general class bugs section. I would agree that certain patches to the game (such as the given example above) are not attributable to any given weapon and so get repeated on every page over and over again. However, for some patches (such as fixing the Pyro afterburn damage), it can be attributed to a stock weapon rather than to the class. --<span style="color:purple">'''''[[User:Focusknock|Focusknock]]'''''</span> 11:34, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 
::: So now theres a Update History section on each classe page, ish guud (: [[File:Killicon deflect ball.png|50px|link=Special:Contributions/Takamoto|]][[User:Takamoto|<span style="color:#E6E6E6  ; font-family: Tf2 Build;"> '''_Takamoto_'''</span>]] '''''[[File:Stunned.png|40px|link=User_Talk:Takamoto]]''''' 15:21, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
==Rotating Hat GIFs==
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:::{{Pro}} [[File:Cm heavy rankup 06.mp3]] [[User:Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''Mediarch'''</font>]] [[File:User Mediarch PFP.png|25px]][[User:Mediarch|<font color="#ff66cc"> ♥ </font>]][[User talk:Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''Talk'''</font>]][[User:Mediarch|<font color="#ff66cc"> ♥ </font>]][[Special:Contributions/Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''My Edits'''</font>]] 17:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
  
Ive been thinking some rotating shots of the hats would be a nice addition to their respective pages so people can see what they look like all the way around.
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:::: I see no issues with the logo. <br>[[User:Cheddar|<font color="#193940">'''Cheddar'''</font>]] [[User talk:Cheddar|<font color="#193940">'''Talk'''</font>]] 19:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Ive been working out a way of doing it effectivly on a white background and the resulting Gif's are practically flawless.
 
Any thoughts, would this make a nice addition? [[User:Triplejx3|Triplejx3]] 22:28, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Oppose}} Nope. We dont need this :] [[User:Rins|<span style="color:#0e5c76;font-size:13px;font-family:'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;">Rins</span>]] <span style="font-size:10px">[[File:User_Rins_minioface.png|:O]] ([[User talk:Rins|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Rins|contribs]])</span> 11:19, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:: I feel the current pictures of hats need redoing more than replacing. The poses are fine, but the positioning of the hates on the head are wrong.--<span style="color:purple">'''''[[User:Focusknock|Focusknock]]'''''</span> 11:34, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
== Hello ==
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::::: I've enabled the logo for logged-in users. Please let me know if you find any issues.
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::::: If everything goes smoothly, I plan to push it sometime in July, along with translations. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 21:06, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
  
Hey, My name  is PoopManX and I'm a little new to the wiki. I stole some userboxes and added them to my page, and even created my own signature
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== Zombies,Saxton, and V-Script Classes ==
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(if it doesn’t appear, this is signed by Deluxe Fortress, Saturday May 18 2024)
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(Skip first paragraph to skip the bone and directly to the meat)
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In the official Zombie Infection game mode, the classes don’t act the same as zombies. They act slightly or completely different from what they were or are from abilities to their role in the team. This ranges from exaggerating their features (such as scout, who has even less health for holy speed) to heavy and engineer (heavy becoming a building buster; engineer becoming a building buster ) and have different stats alongside their main abilities, mainly the (almost) universal 25+ max health increase. They each act very differently and uniquely compared to their human counterparts.
  
[[User:PoopManX|<span style="text-shadow:#5885A2 0px 0px 3px;"><font color="#424F3B"><tt><big><u>'''PoopManX'''</u></big></tt></font>]] [[File:PoopManXsprite.png|31px|link=User_talk:PoopManX]]</span>
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So my suggestion is to make 9 pages for each of the zombie once mercenaries because of how differently they act and what makes them tick. This is a bit much and a bit of points can be bounced back and forth if this is reasonable or not. I can see the point I made first, zombies should have their own pages because of how differently they act. But then again, listing all the stats and finding a zi_ Zombie image that can be turned a full 360• will be extremely tedious. However, same can be said for the first basic human 9 classes.  
  
I hope I can become one of the regulars!
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If the first point is made or not, I’d like to bring up the rest of V-Script and VSH. Saxton Hale, though taking heavy as a place holder, is 100% not heavy, he is Saxton Hale. So should he get his own page separate from the Comic Illustration page and striped directly from the VSH page to have his own page? It’d be easier for navigating and the Disambiguation page would have to be updated, but I can see it being better as its own page so details like Hammer Units Per Blank can be listed and trivia can be separated and therefor shortened if needed. This would require more work, but I think this is more important than the zombies since he’s basically the 11th class.
  
PS, the picture in my signature IS the minecraft skull painting. <small>— ''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' '''[[User:PoopManX|PoopManX]]''' ([[PoopManX|talk]]) • ([[Special:Contributions/PoopManX|contribs]]) </small>
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My 3rd point is community maps. Certain maps like Crasher and CP_Carrier have the classes be drastically different and could have their own page, but is definitely not necessary in my eyes.
  
First off, welcome to the wiki good buddy. Second, make sure you sign all of your posts on discussion pages with that fancy signature of yours :) This can be done either automatically by clicking the signature button (the second from the right) when in the edit page, or by manually typing in <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> at the end of all of your comments. All the best ---- [[User:No-oneSpecial|{{TF2B|text = No-oneSpecial| quality = vintage | size = 13px}}]] [[File:Killicon_flamethrower.png|50px|link=User:No-oneSpecial]] <small>([[User_talk:No-oneSpecial|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/No-oneSpecial|contribs]])</small> 14:31, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
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My final point is if we get a new gamemode or map that introduces a new class,mechanic,items, or maybe Ms. Pauling in the future illustrated in VSH, do they deserve their own page (or fuse pages, as I could see the comic and gameplay version being fused), get their own content pages?
  
== Adding the "Quoteneeded" template ==
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Thank you for reading, sorry it was long, from Deluxe Fortress [[User:DeluxeFortress|DeluxeFortress]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 03:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
I'll make this short and sweet.
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:Just asking, anyone know how to get to the point faster? I kinda need that skill right now and the Goliath of text above me kinda concerns me cause I don’t want to put a dang TDA about what an optimal mask is and why it says that on pyros “nose”, and suggestions are appreciated, ty [[User:DeluxeFortress|DeluxeFortress]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 04:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)  
I created this templete to be put on pages that needed quotations. I created it on my user-page under [[User:Stevoisiak/WIP_Pages|WIP Pages]], and got the approval of a mod to add it to the page. However, somewhere, there may have been a miscommunication about adding the template. There was some discussion, and it was decided that the template was not needed, and was deleted. I fully understand this. So lets start the discussion on whether this template should be kept or not.
 
For refrence, the template in question can be found [[User:Stevoisiak/WIP_Pages/Template:Quoteneeded|here]]
 
--[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 18:31, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|support}} While it may not be the most important task on the wiki, it is not meant to be used frequently. It's to be used sparingly. Besides, check what [[Coldfront]]s quote was [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=Coldfront&oldid=442983 before] I added the template to it. --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 18:32, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{C|Oppose}} In the amount of time it takes to post this template someone could have created a quote instead; this is useless. This idea has already been [[Template:Quote_needed|deleted]] multiple times. Please do not add support icons underneath your own proposal, this gives the first impression that others have supported your idea.<br /> — [[User:Minip|<span style = "font-weight: bold;">minip</span>]] 18:52, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 
::{{C|Comment}} Fair enough argument. Just one minor thing though. The article wasn't "deleted multiple times". the only reason it has 3 revisions is because I personally asked Wind to temporarily restore the article so I could move it to my userpage. He restored and re-deleted it at my own request. The article was deleted only one time. --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 18:57, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|oppose}} Quotes are subjective, anyone could potentially slap this template on a page just so they could have an excuse to alter the quote to their liking. In any case, every page already has its own fitting quote that has been there for a while with no problems.--<span style="color:purple">'''''[[User:Focusknock|Focusknock]]'''''</span> 11:34, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|comment}} Alright, the general response seems to be negative to the template. I'll wait for 2 or 3 more responces, and if they are all negative, I'll be forming a "Scrapped Pages" section for my userpage, and just drop the template completely. --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 19:46, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Oppose}} Quoting [[User:Minip|minip]], ''In the amount of time it takes to post this template someone could have created a quote instead''; I agree that some pages are missing quotes when they should have them, but you could just add them yourself instead of adding a template and let somebody else do it just because you don't want to. {{n}} [[File:Duel_RED.png|link=User:EpicEric|20px|sub]] [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#5885A2;font-size:15px;font-family:
 
'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Epic</b></span>]] [[User:EpicEric|<span style="color:#B8383B;font-size:15px;font-family:
 
'Trebuchet MS';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;"><b>Eric</b></span>]]{{mod}} [[File:Duel_BLU.png|link=User:EpicEric|20px|sub]]<span style="font-size:10px"> ([[User talk:EpicEric|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/EpicEric|C]])</span> 19:53, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|support}} If you can find a good quote, you put it there and if you can't come up with a good one, you just put the template there. I really don't see the problem here. --[[User:CruelCow|CruelCow]] {{sta}} <sup>([[User_talk:CruelCow|talk]])</sup> 23:45, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 
::Using templates to mark missing information will only stall progress, at what point do we draw the line? Are we eventually going to have templates to mark every bit of missing information?<br /> — [[User:Minip|<span style = "font-weight: bold;">minip</span>]] 23:53, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|neutral}} I don't see any point in adding quotes to every page but if everyone else agrees then whatever. {{User:Ohyeahcrucz/Sig2}} 23:47, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|oppose}} A quote needed template at the top is more of a detriment to an article than not having a quote. It's a good idea, but it's simply an eyesore. A category such as [[:Category:Articles needing quotes]] would be a fitting alternative. Besides, it's not a huge deal if an article doesn't have a quote. - [[User:LingoSalad|<font face="TF2 Build" color="#990099"><big>L</big>ingo<big>S</big>alad</font>]]<sub> ([[User_talk:LingoSalad|talk]])</sub> 15:52, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|oppose}} i purely agree with what minip/EpicEric said, theres no need of template, you can add them by yourself. [[File:Killicon deflect ball.png|50px|link=Special:Contributions/Takamoto|]][[User:Takamoto|<span style="color:#E6E6E6  ; font-family: Tf2 Build;"> '''_Takamoto_'''</span>]] '''''[[File:Stunned.png|40px|link=User_Talk:Takamoto]]''''' 16:04, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|oppose|Final Verdict}} Because of the near unanimous negative response, the template will be scrapped. --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 22:28, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
 
----
 
  
== Weapon Demonstration project needs to be updated! ==
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:{{Con}} I don't think this is a good idea, as game mode-specific info should be on the game mode itself. On the game mode articles right now it's already adequately covered and there isn't nearly as much information on these classes as there is on the regular classes. Regular classes have many unique weapons, unique personalities, many cosmetics, an associated storyline, unique gameplay aspects, etc. For the Zombie classes they would purely be a description of their abilities and the shared universal changes. Looking at the table on [[Zombie Infection]], this would amount to an article that's taken up more by pictures than by actual information.
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:As for Saxton Hale, he would have a bit more information but it would largely be [[Saxton Hale]] with the information from [[Versus Saxton Hale]] merged into a single section. I don't think merging the articles is a good idea, personally.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 10:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
In the new '''[[April 14, 2011 Patch]]''' ([[Hatless Update]]) alot weapons in the game had their stats changed, as a result many weapons (e.g. the [[Backburner]] witch can now [[airblast]]) are now completely different. This means that the some the Weapon Demonstration project video are outdated! I feel that we most removed these outdated videos in till we can create updated ones. [[User:PoopManX|<span style="text-shadow:#5885A2 0px 0px 3px;"><font color="#5885A2"><tt><big><u>'''PoopManX'''</u></big></tt></font>]] [[File:PoopManXsprite.png|31px|link=User:PoopManX]]</span> 17:50, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
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::I can fully see your point, I don’t have anything to say after that, but I still want other people to reply so I can see everyone’s opinions. Thank you GrampaSwood.
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::[[User:DeluxeFortress|DeluxeFortress]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 18:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
== Whats going on here. ==
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:::{{Con}} I also agree with what GrampaSwood said. I think the specific stats and what makes them tick seems to be covered in the main [[Zombie infection]] page. Anything not mentioned in the Zombie infection page could be covered in a little more detail in the [[Community Zombie Infection strategy]] page. I think it's better to keep all the gamemode specific information concentrated instead of spreading it out across a bunch of seperate pages that wouldn't have a ton of detail to go over. Same thoughts apply to Saxton Hale.  [[User:Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''Mediarch'''</font>]] [[File:User Mediarch PFP.png|25px]][[User:Mediarch|<font color="#ff66cc"> ♥ </font>]][[User talk:Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''Talk'''</font>]][[User:Mediarch|<font color="#ff66cc"> ♥ </font>]][[Special:Contributions/Mediarch|<font color="ec5c69">'''My Edits'''</font>]] 18:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
Ive been wanting to see what is going on with the overhaul of the community strategy and maybe help out a little bit but when I click on the link in the "Current ongoing discussions" that says "Strategy overhaul Mk. II" it does not redirect me to anywhere and just keeps me on the Discussion page. Is it just me or is something wrong?[[User:Fruitbasket|Fruitbasket]] 17:23, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
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:::Remember to indent your replies with {{code|:}}, and also to add your signature after your message rather than before.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 18:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
:That discussion's been kinda dead for a while, and it doesn't link properly because some of the stuff has been archived over time. Most of what's going on is either in IRC or has been settled and ongoing. I'm the one overlooking the strategy overhaul, but it's been a bit slow-going recently because I haven't had the time to look over it all. --{{User:LordKelvin/Signature}} 17:55, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
== Propoganda Hats ==
+
::: I’m still new to this, thank you regardless and have a good morning, or evening, or night I don’t know your time zone. [[User:DeluxeFortress|DeluxeFortress]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 18:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
The hats from the [[Propaganda contest]] are unique items, so why not give them their own pages? I have created pages for these hats in my userpage, which can be found [[User:Stevoisiak/WIP_Pages/J.Axer%27s_Dapper_Topper|here]], [[User:Stevoisiak/WIP_Pages/Amber%27s_Rad_As_All_Hell_Hat|here]], and [[User:Stevoisiak/WIP_Pages/Uncle_Sam|here]]. I would like to move these pages into the official wiki. If the [[Companion Cube Pin]] and [[Resurrection Associate Pin]] get separate articles, why shouldn't the propaganda hats? Oh, and before someone says that if we are going by item ID's, there should be two pages for the [[lugermorph]], the difference is that the lugers are only different in the game code. These hats have different names, descriptions, and models. --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 20:28, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
+
::: To Mediarch, I couldn’t see your reply because of internet issues so here I am now. I completely did not think about the strategy pages, I just remembered those as the competitive players haven. Thank you, and also, should the Editing:Style apply to comments, replies, etc? What I mean by that is “lol,ty,r u ok”..etc in replies like these?
:{{c|Support}} They are separate items so they should have their page. {{User:Ohyeahcrucz/Sig2}} 20:34, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
+
:::[[User:DeluxeFortress|DeluxeFortress]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 18:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
:{{c|Support}} Hit it doc — [[User:WindPower|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Wind</span>]] 20:40, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Oppose}}. I don't think we should be giving articles to each and every item in the schema, we have to be diligent about choosing which ones can be covered in the least amount of separate articles as possible. In this case, I don't think they add anything interesting that can't be put into the normal article. The only things it adds is a one sentence line about the Contest, links to the item and the guy's backpack on optf2, and the poster gallery image itself. All of these things could and should just be added to the normal article, so I say {{c|No}} to new articles. [[user:seb26|<small style="background:#f9f9f9;border:1px solid #EA6B1C;padding:0em 0.5em;color:#000;-webkit-box-shadow:2px 1px 1px #FBAA78;">'''seb26'''</small>]] 22:51, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:: TL;DR not enough info to have a separate page, and the info it has can be simply put into the Towering Pillar of Hats, Modest Pile of Hats, etc articles easily [[user:seb26|<small style="background:#f9f9f9;border:1px solid #EA6B1C;padding:0em 0.5em;color:#000;-webkit-box-shadow:2px 1px 1px #FBAA78;">'''seb26'''</small>]] 22:57, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Oppose}} Same reason as seb26 told. Propaganda hats dont deserve seperate page.[[User:Rins|<span style="color:#0e5c76;font-size:13px;font-family:'TF2 Build';text-shadow:#e3e3e3 1px 1px 0px;">Rins</span>]] <span style="font-size:10px">[[File:User_Rins_minioface.png|:O]] ([[User talk:Rins|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Rins|contribs]])</span> 08:08, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Oppose}} I understand where you're coming from, but as already stated there isn't enough of a difference between the normal hat and the ones the winners got. The reason why the Companion Cube Pin and the Resurrection Associate Pin got seperate pages is because they're just that, seperate items with different names, just the same skin. In the same way that the Rocket Launcher and Rocket Jumper use the same skin but have seperate pages. And the Luger only has one page because it was the same name and description both times. If it had a different name between games they would have different pages. Sorry man ---- [[User:No-oneSpecial|{{TF2B|text = No-oneSpecial| quality = vintage | size = 13px}}]] [[File:Killicon_flamethrower.png|50px|link=User:No-oneSpecial]] <small>([[User_talk:No-oneSpecial|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/No-oneSpecial|contribs]])</small> 15:21, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 
::{{c|comment}} Actually, they do have different skins, models, names. Their ingame name's and models are not the same as the pile of hats they are based on. --[[User:Stevoisiak|Stevoisiak]] 17:46, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Support}} I think they should have their own pages, they might use the same model but they are unique and different hats. Move the gear up lads! [[File:Killicon deflect ball.png|50px|link=Special:Contributions/Takamoto|]][[User:Takamoto|<span style="color:#E6E6E6  ; font-family: Tf2 Build;"> '''_Takamoto_'''</span>]] '''''[[File:Stunned.png|40px|link=User_Talk:Takamoto]]''''' 17:28, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Support}} Do it, doc, do it. [[User:Maggosh|mag]][[User talk:Maggosh|gosh]] 17:34, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Oppose}} It will be useless articles. Any user can receive all information he/she need from [[Modest Pile of Hat|relevant]] page. - '''[[User:Aperture AI|<span style="color:#694D3A">Grand-O-Rand</span>]]''' [[File:Painted Détective Noir 694D3A.png|25px|link=User:Aperture AI]]{{md}}'''(''[[User talk:Aperture AI|Talk]]'')''' 17:40, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|Oppose}} Nothing new that hasn't already been said. These hats are not special. Having a unique model and texture only puts them slightly above self made items. They have no additional information or backstory that is not already covered on the propaganda page and the respective hat pages. This is unneccesary.--<span style="color:purple">'''''[[User:Focusknock|Focusknock]]'''''</span> 22:55, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 
:{{c|support}} I think these can fit into one article, though - [[User:LingoSalad|<font face="TF2 Build" color="#990099"><big>L</big>ingo<big>S</big>alad</font>]]<sub> ([[User_talk:LingoSalad|talk]])</sub> 19:18, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
== Patch link template ==
+
::::No, the style guides don't apply to the discussions, you can write however you want as long as you remain friendly. See [[Help:Discussion]] for the guidelines instead.<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 18:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
I just want to submit a [[User:Aperture AI/Template:PatchLink|template]]. In could be used for easy creating link to patch and update articles instead of entering big amount of text. Template should be renamed to ''Template:Patch'' or ''Template:PatchLink'' for convenience. For examle: <nowiki>{{patch|4|20|2011}}</nowiki>.
+
::::: Thank you (for the third time today), I have now read [[Help:Discussion]] and I’ll look into the help pages for answers instead of discussion. Seriously cannot thank you enough today
 +
[[User:DeluxeFortress|Dell]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 19:21, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
  
* <nowiki>{{User:Aperture AI/Template:PatchLink|4|20|2011}}</nowiki> = {{User:Aperture AI/Template:PatchLink|4|20|2011}}
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== Homewrecker and The Zombie Engineer ==
* <nowiki>{{User:Aperture AI/Template:PatchLink|9|30|2010|Mann-Conomy Update}}</nowiki> = {{User:Aperture AI/Template:PatchLink|9|30|2010|Mann-conomy Update}}
 
  
'''Features:'''
+
In [[Zombie Infection]], the [[Engineer]] has the ability to throw and EMP grenade that can disable [[Sentry Gun| Sentries]] to help his team push through human defenses. However, the [[Homewrecker]] and the [[Neon Annihilator]] can destroy [[Sapper|Sappers]]. So can the 2 melees destroy the Engineer’s grenades or is the Homewrecker a direct downgrade in Zombie Infection as no [[Spy|Spies]] can use the Sapper? The main reason I’m asking this is because I was going to add a strategy for the Neon and I didn’t want to edit the main strategy I was going to put and have to put the possible destroying grenades mechanic after, where I’d be going back to the edit I just made and changing it to add another. To put in simple terms, I’ve 2 strategies for a weapon, I know I can put 1, but not the other, so I went here to see if anyone knew the answer to this question here. I’m guessing “probably not”, but I don’t want to fully shut down the possibility and have to edit an edit which I learned was unfavorable. Sorry this was long.
* Translation switching.
+
[[User:DeluxeFortress|Dell]] ([[User talk:DeluxeFortress|talk]]) 00:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
* Update link (ex: "[[Mann-Conomy Update]]").
 
  
'''Vote now for its active use on Wiki!''' - '''[[User:Aperture AI|<span style="color:#694D3A">Grand-O-Rand</span>]]''' [[File:Painted Détective Noir 694D3A.png|25px|link=User:Aperture AI]]{{md}}'''(''[[User talk:Aperture AI|Talk]]'')''' 10:57, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
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:Seeing as the EMP Grenade is not a Sapper, it's safe to assume they can't be used to destroy it. Also, be careful with spaces in front of talk page entries, as they put the whole thing in a box with may mess with formatting (e.g. indents can't be used).<br>[[File:BLU Wiki Cap.png|20px|link=List of Wiki Cap owners]] {{!}} [[Help:Group rights|<span style="color:green;font-family:TF2 Build;">s</span>]] {{!}} [[User:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">GrampaSwood</font>]] [[File:PraisetheSun.png|20px|alt=Praise the Sun!]] ([[User talk:GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">talk</font>]]) ([[Special:Contributions/GrampaSwood|<font color="DB9C1F">contribs</font>]]) 10:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
  
:There already is one, created by EpicEric: [[Template:patch info]]. {{n}}[[File:Awesome.png|18px|sub]] [[User:Ohyeahcrucz|<span style="text-shadow:blue 0px 0px 1px;font-size:13px;font-family:comic sans MS"><font color="blue">Ohyeahcrucz]]</font></span><span style="font-size:8px;font-weight:bold;"><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User_talk:Ohyeahcrucz|T]]<nowiki>][</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/Ohyeahcrucz|C]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></span> 17:21, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
+
== #savetf2 ==
  
== Removal of All Class Hats and Misc from Class Pages ==
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Deer wiki admins. there is a petition going around supporting #savetf2 on the website save.tf. I think this wiki should support this petition by advertising the site on the main page I think this would help the petition a lot and by proxy help TF2 in general a lot so if the admins (or whoever edits the main page) were to do so I would be very happy. Yours truly [[User:Manman24|Manman24]] ([[User talk:Manman24|talk]]) 00:44, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Hey guys I just wanted to raise something that's bugged me for a little bit. Is it really required for us to have every All Class hat and Every All class misc listed on the class pages? To me, it seems to create a bit more clutter on the page than needed. While yes, that class may very well be able to wear those hats, the title of 'All class' hat implies that the hat can be worn by all classes, and so not really specific enough to be shown on that classes page. It is not information that is directly related to the class, it is information that effects all classes. If that hat was only worn by 8 of the 9 classes, I could understand that being listed because it would be important to show and specify that a certain class does not get that hat. But if EVERY class gets it, it's not as important. We already have links to the Hats page above the class specific hats anyway.
 
So I propose we remove the 'All Class' hat's and misc tables from the class pages. ---- [[User:No-oneSpecial|{{TF2B|text = No-oneSpecial| quality = vintage | size = 13px}}]] [[File:Killicon_flamethrower.png|50px|link=User:No-oneSpecial]] <small>([[User_talk:No-oneSpecial|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/No-oneSpecial|contribs]])</small> 14:27, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
==Can't Model but have great ideas?==
+
:I feel as though this isn't neccessary. Whilst it is a nice sentiment, it doesn't really have a place in the wiki. Specifically, not promoted at the Main Page, or anything that is high traffic. What you can do, however, is promote it on your userpage to show your support! Cheers — [[User:Jestie|jestie.]] [[File:Beggar's Bazooka.png|30px|link=User:Jestie]] [[User talk:Jestie|Talk]] [[File:Speech voice.png|25px|link=User talk:Jestie]] 02:33, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Disclaimer: I cannot model either. Hey guys, do you have great ideas for new items? Post them here and maybe if we're lucky, some  Valve person would be looking at these posts and if we are even luckier, that person would happily model our designs for us. here, I got one right now.
 
- New Sniper Secondary Weapon: Jar of water (reskin of Jarate)
 
  -extinguishes a burning player
 
  - can be drunk to replenish 50 HP [[User: The Ultimate Medic]]
 
:This wiki isn't meant for putting your own ideas for suggesting to Valve. If you want to do that, you can try sending your stuff through the [http://www.teamfortress.com/contribute/ Contribute] site, or post your idea on [http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80 the Steam forums]. --{{User:LordKelvin/Signature}} 17:18, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 
  
Sorry about that, I will.[[User: The Ultimate Medic]] 14:01 25, April 2011 (ETC)
+
: Hello! We appreciate the invitation, but participating in this petition as a group goes against our [[Team_Fortress_Wiki:Policies#Community_engagement|Community engagement policy]]. That said, all wiki members are free to support community activities personally, as long as it doesn't imply official endorsement from the wiki.
 +
: Thank you for understanding. — [[User:Tark|<span style="font-weight:bold;color: #5BC236">Tark</span>]] 03:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 03:23, 31 May 2024


Dark Mode

I don't think I even need to explain this. Wikipedia itself has it, so do other wikis. I do have a browser extension for dark mode, and optimally a dark theme for TFwiki should still keep muted earthy orangish tones and such, but at this point with my eye strain I'd take anything. It would encourage more dedicated editing streaks, perhaps, since many of us are night owls too.--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 03:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Easier said than done, it's being worked on but we can't promise anything.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Valve Store

The official Store has been closed down for months now by Valve, and there's no reasonable smidgeon of proof to believe it's coming back any time soon. The Wiki, in many articles, links directly to the Store still, or mentions it, but even tooltips for certain hats will just say they're "not available". This is kind of awkward, and makes the average user waste a click (the horror, I know). And even I get a false hope sometimes that it changed, but it's Valve after all. Should something be done about this, and how? Can there be an automatic disclaimer the Store is gone? Should links be removed? Just let the dead ends sit forever?--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Try to find an archive.org version of it, otherwise just add a tooltip saying it's not available anymore due to store shutdown.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Painted variants with both Styles and separate Classes images, a design proposal

Hi. So, I have several mockups of things to suggest which I'll be writing it up eventually. For now, I was making changes to the Robot Chicken Hat page, and was thinking about adding class variants to the paint gallery, as each class changes the hat's design a little (taller combs, different beak designs, etc.). However, if I were to make those paint variants per class, the current way we put styles and classes to the table looks... off, to say the least. At the moment, if I were to make it consistent with the rest of the Wiki, it would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/gfdAUBL. But, instead, I thought about this mock-up: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK. Not only this looks more visually appealing, but it also takes a lot less space. The only problem that it may be confusing for cosmetics that separate styles by a group of classes (Cotton Head, Brotherhood of Arms, etc.). So... I thought about just making the class buttons that aren't active a little darker (same thing with the Style name): https://i.imgur.com/Fiw1zRT. Here's another example with the Cotton Head: https://i.imgur.com/ZhkQwGG. Mouse-hovering the class icons could also show their class names ("Pyro, Medic, Spy" and "Other classes" in the case of Cotton Head) Thoughts? Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I like this proposal, although I think it's not necessary for every page. Only for the ones where the tabs become too much.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Inconsistency regarding items with one team color, but shows team-colored parts of a player model

Hello. So, when I started adding tabs to the paint variants, and just browsing the Wiki as a whole, I noticed that a couple pages are inconsistent in regards to the unpainted variants. In almost every case of cosmetics that use part of the player model, but only has 1 skin (not team-colored), the team-colors syntax isn't added to the tab, and we only have the UNPAINTED version on the paint variants table (example includes the Soldier's Stash, Horrible Horns on Spy, and much more), but some other pages still shows the BLU variant of a player model despite the item only having one skin (Texas Half-Pants, Millennial Mercenary's Streaming 2Fort style, Exquisite Rack, Battle Bob's With Helmet style, Bacteria Blocker's Headphones style, etc).

Some other pages also includes two identical RED and BLU images for the infobox, just because the item has two materials per team, but still uses the same exact texture and values (basically two identical .vmt files). I don't remember what pages has it now, but there are some pages that has that. I did that on Decorated Veteran since I've heard about doing that in the past before: "even if they look identical, put in two separate uploads". There's also no current way to just show one skin on the infobox (however that's something I'm looking to suggest soon enough on my mega infobox improvements topic).

Because we use the infobox, as well the RED and BLU parts of the paint variants table to show the different Skin Colors of the ITEM, I would say to actually cleaning it up these inconsistencies. So, for instance, on Texas Half-Pants, there wouldn't RED and BLU images for each style, because they look identical on either team, and, there's only two skins on the model (one for the Tan style, the other for the Midnight style [older cosmetics used a different way in handling styles, as opposed to separate models, many old cosmetics would use different skins for styles, and the Item Schema would redirect what skins to use depending on the style chosen]). The colors change on the images right now, because it's the colors of Engi's default pants, but not the actual item model changing colors. Meaning that, the RED / BLU on the infobox would be removed, the BLU_... images would be deleted, and the RED_ images would be moved to the _UNPAINTED.png suffix instead.

Some may argue that, since the team-colored paint can image previews also change the pants colors, that these should stay in, but, I don't agree. These are to show the item's team-colors being affected (both the UNPAINTED versions and the team-colored paint cans), not the player model's team-colors, but let me know what do you think.

Items that have 0 changes on team-colors despite having them (same exact .vmt values), I'd also say to get rid of it, as they provide no real information for the reader other than perhaps modders, so they don't need to go all the way of decompiling models to add team-color support, for instance. Some require close inspection however. The Mann-Bird of Aberdeen looks like to be the case, but the green area is just slightly brighter on BLU. I'd still keep the same colors for Styles and classes (like Team Captain for Heavy), until a more fully-fledged infobox edit comes along the way that adds support to just 1 skin on the infobox (like this: https://i.imgur.com/GQP1ou0). I will still point out many of these on my eventual discussion of infobox changes in another topic. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 13:43, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I would support every page having both team colours.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Articles for individual environmental hazards

Some of the older environmental hazards have their own articles. Specifically, they are: Ghost, Pumpkin bomb, Saw blade, and Train.

These are some fairly simple hazards: ghost goes "boo", pumpkin bomb goes "boom", blade goes "bzzt", and train goes "[Train horn noises]". They all have fairly short articles, and are also covered in the Environmental death article.

I propose we change these four into redirects to the Environmental death article, similar to Pitfall.

As for their Update histories, I have three ideas:

  • Add the section to the Environmental death article and carry them over.
  • Create a separate page for that (similar to the Item timeline pages).
  • Ignore them (essentially already the case for all the hazards that don't have their own articles).

I am ok with Skeletons and the Halloween bosses having their own articles, however, as they are more elaborate (which is noticeable by simply comparing article sizes).

Opinions? - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I think some of these pages can add value, such as the specifics in the hazard infobox. I'd push for more articles rather than less, similar to List of game modes, where each hazard has its own page as well as a short description on the overall page. I would prefer this because it would cut down on the clutter on the Environmental death page, for example the pumpkin bomb section is 5 identical hazards that are just reskinned. It would be better to have this in a gallery on its own page, rather than several entries on that page.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
I believe it is better to keep the pages separate, as putting them all together in one could generate a lot of visual clutter, in addition to having a lot of information for the reader to consume at once. Furthermore, it would be complicated to gather all the update histories on the articles. Essentially, we would be taking separate articles and combining them into one big article, where each section (divided by == Section title ==) would be a "complete" article.
Tiagoquix (talk) 18:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

A request

In Polish language we don't capitalise most words like in English language and the way quality items have their quality displayed looks like this: Rocket launcher (vintage). The problem is that in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav Vintage quality in Polish and Russian is not capitalised and looks weird in the template where everything is capitalised except this one word. Is it possible to add a new entry in the dictionary for this template only, where 'Vintage' is capitalised for these languages? In Polish it's even more confusing, because Classic and Vintage share the same translation, so it could be shown in the tempalte as 'Vintage quality' (Jakość klasyczna in Polish). User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

If it's the very first letter that needs to be capitalised, you can use {{ucfirst:<string>}} to turn the first letter into a capital. For example, {{ucfirst:hello world}} generates Hello world.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Could you help me with this? I've changed it in Template:Mann-Conomy Nav but doesn't seem to capitalise the first letter. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Hmmm, yeah seems like the automatic translation templates automatically uncapitalise it. If you really wanted to implement this you'd have to use the {{lang}} template instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:49, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
I already did it once and... User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Perhaps leave a hidden comment and use {{lang incomplete}}?
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
I've coppied how it looked oryginally but now it shows as red link 'VintageVintage'. Could you look what's wrong with this edit? Except equals sign. I've fixed it later. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Looks like you forgot to add a vertical bar, which made the link [[VintageVintage]].
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Mann Manor/Mountain Lab's history

I feel maps that we know more detailed information on the history of we should actually have written down so it isn't forgotten, such as for example, Mann Manor/Mountain Lab being an art contest was not the original plan in fact the maps used to have textures before but, that's just what I think. The American Boot (talk) 04:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

If you think this fact is worth and most player don't know, you can try adding it to Trivia section. Here is a more detailed Trivia guild.Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard (talk) 05:07, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure where this Trivia came from or if there is any source for. The Art Pass Contest page states that Robin Walker said they had a map that hadn't been worked on for a while and they didn't have time to do an art pass on it (which means the map just had dev textures).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Weapon articles mentioning taunts that aren't kill taunts

I've noticed a few articles for weapons mentioning that those weapons have a unique taunt that is not a kill taunt, or a variation of the default weapon for that slot (which is still not a kill taunt). These are the Lollichop, which mentions it has a unique taunt based on a scene from Meet the Pyro, and the Third Degree and Neon Annihilator, which mention the added guitar sounds, respectively. In comparison, the Cow Mangler 5000, Scottish Resistance, and Ullapool Caber, which also have unique taunts, do not mention them since they're not kill taunts, and the Vita-Saw, which has has a variation of the default taunt, does not mention said variation.

I think we should remove these notes from the Lollichop, Third Degree, and Neon Annihilator, as they are already all noted in the Pyro taunts page.

Speaking of the Pyro taunts page, I think we can move the "as in Meet the Pyro" comment from the Lollichop's description to a new Trivia section and add that Execution is also based in a Meet the Pyro scene (which is not mentioned). - BrazilianNut (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I think variants on an existing taunt should be mentioned, such as different sounds (such as the Third Degree/Neon Annihilator adding guitar sounds and the Vita-Saw having different melodies being played), but the non-kill taunt shouldn't be mentioned (no note about the Lollichop taunt. Although seeing as it's unique to that weapon, I think the Trivia can stay).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 17:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Main menu Smissmas 2023 header localization

'Smissmas 2023' is localized but 'December 7 - January 7' is not. Is it possible to localize it too? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 10:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

See Dictionary common strings.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Link of the wiki team fortress energie drink don't work

[[1]] you see this page on the wiki contain a team fortress wiki energie drink with a link for have it but it don't work and is not secure, can someone help me ? The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nonolemage (talk) • (contribs) 2023-12-21, 13:46 UTC

Please sign your messages using ~~~~.
The website appears to be down and no archive of it exists, so unless someone here happens to have a copy we can't do much.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:46, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Multiple Suggestions related to Infobox, etc

Hi. I have been wanting to write this in the past, but, well, finally here it is. I have a couple suggestions about things related to infobox, and other things to make the design of the Wiki flow better on certain articles. I will be posting here as it covers a multitude of topics, as opposed to posting each one of them on their respective templates. When adding "Support" and "Not Support" on your responses, please make sure to add the number (and letter) behind to specify what you are supporting (or not supporting) as a change (like: "1-c"). With that said, let's get going:


1) Implement a way on the Item infobox template where if a style or class has only one team-color compared to other styles with team-colors, include an icon in the middle of both teams. For instance:

a) The Heavy variant of the Team Captain only has one color, but the page right now includes a duplicate of the RED variant as a workaround. What I suggest is doing this: https://i.imgur.com/YgQHk5z. Make the Heavy variant only one file, and center it. It should be pretty clear that because of the image is in the middle, is that it looks like that on both teams.

b) For items with styles that only has one color (not team-colored), do the same thing as well. In the example of Close Quarters Cover, include the "Alert" style on the infobox in the middle of the "RED" and "BLU" sections of the infobox, something like this: https://i.imgur.com/lARBQME.

c) For items that are not team-colored, but have class-specific variants, include a new part colored in grey called "Both Teams", and include each image on the middle as well. For example, the Dead Little Buddy have 3 model variants, one for Pyro, one for Demoman, and the other for the remaining classes. The idea is this: https://i.imgur.com/xPD9PMO.

d) Although I do not have a mock-up right now, I thought of also doing the same as above for items that has only one color. So, for instance, the Jumper's Jeepcap would have a "Both Teams" section, and it would include the "UNPAINTED" variant on the center. Items with styles with just one color, like Mustachioed Mann, would be similar to Dead Little Buddy, including each style on the infobox, alongside their names. Items like Carl that has no styles, but is neutral-colored, would also have the "Both Teams" part.


2) Get rid of the current "2D" images of Weapons, and use "Item icons" instead. The 2D weapon images are not consistent throughout the Wiki. They have different lighting, different angles, and so on. What I suggest is doing something similar to another Wiki I also contributed (one related to a TF2 sourcemod): https://i.imgur.com/vbvPbGP. This looks extremely clean, and every page would have in this angle. The 2D image only includes the RED variant, just like we use RED classes on our cosmetic previews.


3) Add the "RED" and "BLU" sections on the infobox for Weapon pages, even if the 3D image allows you to switch between teams. Right now, the RED variant is used as the 2D image (for team-colored weapons), while the 2D BLU variant awkwardly sits on the Gallery section. My suggestion would be this: https://i.imgur.com/dM9z7Oo


4) For cosmetic pages that has styles alongside class changes on the Painted Variants table, include additional buttons that include class icons. The idea is to remove clutter on pages with a lot of tabs to choose from (see this page). In technical terms, the style buttons would be responsible to change the "style" part of the filename, while the class buttons would change the class part of the filename. If the first class is chosen, then the code needs to get rid of the class part of the filename, as the first class is always the default: https://i.imgur.com/QmQCLsK

a) Additionally, text could be placed on each row, one for "Style:", and the other for "Class:" for the second row, just so it's a little more intuitive and understandable for everyone.


5) Include "infobox images" for separate styles, and add buttons that let you change it. The idea is to include identical images (with identical classes and facial flexing), with the only thing changing the model. For example, Main Cast would look like this: https://imgur.com/a/OmTIYVs.


6) Include more sections on the Gallery for items with more than one Style. In the past, the Robot Chicken Hat page did include all 9 classes on the Gallery section, with 2 separate sections, one with the "Beak" style, and the other with "Beakless" style. It would follow the same rule as "5)", with both images looking identical facial-flex and pose-wise. Some pages like Dead of Night wouldn't include all classes on each section. Classes with lack of grenades wouldn't be there.

Edit: Some users asked for an example, so, when I talked about the Robot Chicken Hat, it originally looked like this. The images don't exist anymore, but you can still see how it looked like. When I wrote the suggestion, I thought something about that (though it could have been changed a little, like include an "Other" title for the remaining images that aren't related to the class images), but, after Swood's suggestion, I'd say that using Tabs would be more ideal, something akin to how we do on the Tournament Medal pages.

I did an example on my 2nd Sandbox page. I thought something about this: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/index.php?title=User:Gabrielwoj/Sandbox2&oldid=3598538 (note that a couple images, namely the infobox team-colors, and paint cans, does not show up properly due to the page's name being different, if this were to be pasted onto the actual page, it would show just as fine). I decided to not make the Tabs centered as regular cosmetic pages are usually not centered, unlike Tournament Medals / Community Medal ones. I also decided to make the gallery width "485px", so it shows 3 images per row, and looks pretty nice and cool with whatever's below that does not require a Tabs section.


7) Lastly. Items that include noticeable team-color differences could also get "Single Color" paint can previews on both teams, even if the paint look identical on the area that is paintable. When Paints were first introduced, they were mostly applied to cosmetics that used the same texture on either team. Now, nowadays, we have cosmetics that include team-colored parts that are not paintable, alongside other parts that are. So, for instance, Brawling Buccaneer would have its Painted variants table from {{Painted variants}} to {{Painted variants full}}, and single color paint can previews for the BLU team would be made, to show how the paint looks like, and despite being painted in the same area, the rest of the item is in another color. Readers might want to know how an item looks on the BLU team. This would take a long time too make for the entirety of the Wiki, and would be a project that would require remaking some paint variants if they do not have Rotation values saved, or if there's another issue that doesn't make them 1:1, but I think it would look good, and useful as well.


8) For items that has several styles / classes on the infobox (such as Manndatory Attire, Beaten and Bruised and Boarder's Beanie‎), make the Infobox template show less of them by default, and include a button with a caption "↓ Show remaining ↓". If possible, make the last one have a "fade" effect, so it's perfectly clear what the button is about. My idea was to include at least 10 of these sections, then fade (because if it reaches 10 of these, it means there's more than one Style per class, where other pages would include 9 of these per class, though, it could be shortened if needed, but personally I would go with 10 sections before the button and fade shows up). It would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/jh6geu6


Edit: 9) Regarding the Styles section. If we include Styles on the infobox, even for items that look the same on either team, is it really necessary to include the "Styles" section on the page, alongside the table, if everything would be on the Infobox? It seems redundant to keep both of them, but, I'd only get rid of the Styles section after everything is added to the infobox, including the single-color Styles on it. Additionally, certain pages that has Styles that change between classes are a little confusing at the moment. Manndatory Attire has only Scout's styles being demonstrated on the table, despite each class changing the visuals.

a) Originally I was going to suggest a class-switcher button, similar to the "4)", but, if "1)" is implemented, I don't see any reason to keep the Styles section. Please let me know if you think there should be either: "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table" or "Getting rid of the Styles section entirely as it would be redundant with all the styles on the infobox once the "1)" suggestion is implemented.

b) The only problem that getting rid of the Styles section would be problematic for items that has barely any difference unpainted, but has more notable differences when paintable. Items like Onimann mostly change its visuals when painted between styles, and if there's no section for it. However, the painted variants table, alongside the main summary on the top of the page, would both visually show the difference, as well would explain in text what each style does in terms of paint.


Please let me know your thoughts below. Notice that I'm not sure if I would be able to implement some of these suggestions, specially the ones for the "Item infobox" template. If there's enough support, I'd appreciate anyone who could implement suggested changes / additions. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 21:13, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

1. I think that section should be dedicated to showing off the team colours rather than different styles for different classes. If a cosmetic looks different on different classes I would prefer a different box for it similar to the "Styles" section.
2/3. That's fine by me, though I would also want to add a second button to it for the BLU variant rather than stuffing it in the Gallery.
4/5. I like this.
6. I like this, although I would suggest we use the {{Tabs}} template for it.
7. I like this too, but it would require a ton of work and I'm not sure we'd be able to make it through.
8. I'm not sure that I'm a fan of collapsing a bunch of them. I would prefer having them sorted by class instead similar to {{Tabs}}.
9. See answer on 1.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram plus.png Agree - All of these changes look very nice, I don't have anything to say about them.
2 / 3 Pictogram question.png Not sure / changes - Would the change to using weapon icons include BLU weapon icons as well? If it does, I would rather have the 2D BLU image in the main infobox when you click on BLU and then switch to the 2D image instead of it being below the main image.
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree - This also looks nice.
5 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - I don't know how I feel about this, I feel like the painted variants sorta already accomplish the goal of knowing what the cosmetic would look like with the different styles. It would also take a lot of work to recreate a lot of infobox images just for this.
6 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - I have the same thoughts about this as 5, it would take a lot of work to redo a bunch of galleries when the styes / painted variants section already get the job done.
7 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - This would look nice, however it would again take a lot of work to get done.
8 Pictogram plus.png Agree / changes - I like the idea, though I agree with what Swood said with that it would look better if it was just in tabs instead.
9 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I sort of agree with the idea of removing the styles section, but I also do like how there's a sort of simplified section for seeing all of the styles instead of it only being part of the infobox and painted variants.
Andrew360 Edit icon.png Speech typing.png Photo Badge Decal Example.png 03:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram minus.png Disagree - Same reason with Swood, I think the style section should do the job.
2 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Good idea!
3 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - Instead of taking space in infobox, Why don't we use the same button used on 3D images?
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Yes.
5 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Looks nice, but considered what Andrew says we might not getting those done in recent.
6 Pictogram plus.png Agree - We are gonna do a lot of work then I guess.
7 Pictogram plus.png Agree - Same with Andrew360
8 Pictogram question.png Not sure - Looks good, though yeah, why not use {{Tabs}}?
9 Pictogram question.png Disagree.. or Sorta Agree - If I have to choose one from infobox and style section, I would take style section. In my opinion the infoboxs shouldn't be too long and contain too much information, comparing to a small space on the right side of the page, I think the style section can display the information better. If 8 gets passed then I'm fine with it too. (I just don't want to see infobox gets longer than the page itself.)
Profiteer(奸商)the tryhard (talk) 06:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1 Pictogram plus.png Sorta Agree - Eh, doesn't matter to me either way.
2 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I wanna see how it would look first.
3 Pictogram plus.png Agree - I was kinda the one to start the whole "shoving the blue variant in the gallery" and have always wondered why there wasn't a color toggle for the 2D variants.
4 Pictogram plus.png Strongly agree - I wish it was like this since the beginning!
5 Pictogram question.png Not sure - I like the idea, but it will take a lot of work updating all the pages and such with the change.
6 Pictogram question.png Not sure - Same answer as 5.
7 Pictogram plus.png Agree - I'm only saying yes because we'll only have to edit the templates which are used across all translation pages.
8 Pictogram minus.png Somewhat disagree - There aren't very many items that have loads of different styles like this, I think I'd wait until we get something like a shirt or coat that includes a load of different styles (with team variants).
9 Pictogram minus.png Strongly disagree - Yeah it is necessary to have a styles section, because they mostly show examples of what they look like on the character wearing it. I know that the infobox has styles too, but they're only the raw models.
ShadowMan44 (talk) 01:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
So, after some user's responses, I'd like to mention a couple things. In regards to most of "2)" and "3)" responses, here's something I didn't mention. There would be a slight problem for items that are not team-colored if we just implemented a RED and BLU image switcher. The idea of using "Item icons" with the RED variant / neutral-color variant, would that it would make everything consistent and nice looking, While "RED" and "BLU" 2D images are usually very consistent too, the current "2D" images used on weapon pages are all over the place. Using the "Item icon" in conjunction with the RED and BLU team-colors means we could use already existing images on the Wiki, too. Not that I would have a problem if new images had to be created for the Neutral-Colored weapons, but, I still think that using the Item icons would highly benefit here, since how nice they look on weapons.
However, if we go with a RED and BLU switcher, what we could perhaps do is team-colored Item icons, yeah that would be awesome. Not only that, but we also have Item icons for Australiums, and, I even made Australium Festivized icons for TF2B a while ago, that is only used there and not on the Wiki, at the moment.
GrampaSwood 6) Yeah, I didn't think of this, but using Tabs on the Gallery would be pretty good, something we already do in Tournament Medal pages, actually.
GrampaSwood, Andrew360, Profiteer 7) While I can't promise I will be on the Wiki forever, and, with my statement on my userpage being correct (that I won't be as active in 2024), making BLU team-colored variants on "Standalone" models is a faster process than when making when loaded as a "weapon" (e.g.: Cosmetic loaded on a player model). The reason I did all the Boarder's Beanie paint variants is solely because it's a standalone model, I was able to generate the paint variants very quickly (and in high quality and proper colors). I can still do every single style and class on BLU as well, for the Single Color paint variants, for the Beanies, I just haven't done since we are still discussing this.
My Laptop is currently not being used. I have thought of the idea of making an HLMV machine, and letting paint variants being made while I do other things. This is something I thought about in the past, but I would require another monitor (which I can buy, no problem), but I also would need time, something I will not have that much starting 2024. However, I'm also in the point where I feel like I have contributed quite a lot for the Wiki already, so I'm kinda conflicted if I should really do this or not. I would only require to re-install Windows, re-configure HLMV (which can be painful), and things like that, before I can make it an idle HLMV machine that makes paint variants.
ShadowMan44 7) Correct, currently, the "Painted variants full" template states that mouse-hovered "Single colors" states that "due to how the cosmetic's textures are set up, it changes colors between teams". This would require to be changed appropriately, somehow, though I don't think that yet another Painted variants template should be made. It should be possible to just add a parameter of some sort.
Gabrielwoj, Andrew360 5) Despite me suggesting this, I was also not too sure about it, but I decided to post it as a matter of discussion. In most cases, Styles just change the look of an item, without changing the placement of the model, or the model itself. In some other cases, however, it does change something Liquor Locker, Pocket-Medes, etc. While it would be an interesting idea, and I do have a couple cosmetics with all styles made already, most of the rest would require to be remade. This could also be a little difficult for regular HLMV users, as refreshing the model viewer gets rid of the facial flex entirely, but not on HLMV++. While you can unload and load submodels without having to refresh, HLMV does read from "$color2" instead of "$colortint_base", which means if someone forgets about that on an older cosmetic, they'd need to refresh after fixing it from the .vmt.
Profiteer 9) That's a good point. I guess if the Styles section was more populated (actually shows differences between classes), then I suppose that items like Manndatory Attire and Boarder's Beanie wouldn't require that huge amount of styles being shown on the table. But then, there's another problem. Items already show their unpainted RED and BLU variants on the infobox, and how exactly could we categorize "exceptions" to be only on the Styles section if we follow your idea?
ShadowMan44 9) I'm not quite sure if I understood what you said. The styles table on both the Style section and infobox use the same exact images, same files, with some exceptions like the Dead of Night and Pocket-Medes. This is why I mentioned it being redundant, because in most cases, both sections use the same images. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 11:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
So Tekinz and Mgpt talked with me via Steam and Discord DMs, and I'd like to post their opinions on this. Tekinz asked me to post on my behalf, explaining what he told me instead of directly quoting him, while mgpt allowed me to directly translate what he told me. With that said, here's what they had to say:
Tekinz: He told me that he agrees with most of my proposed update and changes, while pin-pointing some specific numbers with further explanation. He adds that for "7)", it would be a huge amount of work, and we would need quite a few active image creators to be able to achieve it in a timely manner, but otherwise it would be a general improvement to the pages. On "8)", he adds that he has no real problems with and thinks it's pretty good, mentioning that if combined with "1)", it would look great. On "9)", he mentioned that it's probably a good idea considering how the Styles section is located pretty far on the page and that it would probably be better to have them focused to the infobox since it's much closer to the top, alongside the rest of relevant images. He further adds that the Styles section always seemed not as important since it was too close to the Trivia and Patch Notes, while also being beneath the huge Painted Variants table that overshadows it.
mgpt:
Pictogram plus.png Agree 1. Everything looks okay to me, if it's easy to implement;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 2. I did take a look on some weapons, and I agree in using "Item icons";
Pictogram plus.png Agree 3. I saw the comments, and Andrew360's idea, and I agree, it has my vote;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 4. You got my vote, very good;
Pictogram minus.png Disagree 5. I agree with Andrew360 and Profiteer, I don't think that it's worth the work, considering there's already images below on the infobox, alongside the painted variants;
Pictogram info.png Info 6. It ends up being the same as "5)", however, I'd like to see an example how it would look like;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 7. I'm not sure if I noticed completely, but would that be switching the template from "Painted variants" to "Painted variants full" In several cosmetics, like how it was done in Brigade Helm? If so, I don't see a problem;
Pictogram info.png Info 7. An idea to the template. Wouldn't it look better if it was something like this, with 2 buttons? https://i.imgur.com/LVXXb4C Or is it being done currently like it's on the page so it's possible to compare both teams at the same time? Probably that;
Pictogram plus.png Agree 8. I like the idea, however, the information still continue to be too deep on the page, wouldn't be better to only show 4 or 5, instead of 9?;
Pictogram info.png Info 9. a) "An arrange of buttons that lets you change classes on the Styles table". In the example of Beaten and Bruised, the images wouldn't be anymore on the infobox, correct?;
Pictogram info.png Info I like "8)"'s idea, but if "9)" is applied, then number "8)" is discarded. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
I also replied to mgpt regarding some of his questions, so I had the following to say:
7) On number "7)", it would be including previews like how it's done on "Single Color" paint cans on the BLU team, even if when they are applied on the same area, the paint color looks identical to the RED team. Currently, we only use "Painted variants full" in cases of items that has different colorization between teams, such as the case of Stout Shako;
7. a) I liked the idea of including RED and BLU on the top, it would be very intuitive. Post-thoughts: After re-reading his thoughts on this one, I saw that the original idea would be buttons, while I first thought they were simply two sections that would separate the teams more properly, visually. I thought if maybe that by doing so, we could include a faint red and a faint blue background to separate them both, and make the template a little more nice to look at, as currently there's a bunch of paint variants all included in one table.
8) In regards to the default quantity, it would still be discussed, but the main idea would be something that could be expanded to show the remaining. I finished the Boarder's Beanie images, and the infobox ended up being very lengthy. The table for Painted variants will probably change if "4)" is implemented.
9) The images would still stay on the infobox section, but the idea would be that on the Styles table, it would include an array of buttons with each of the classes icons, so it could be changed, similar to what it has been suggested on "4)". The only thing that, if "1)" is implemented, the Styles section may not be as necessary anymore. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 12:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 Pictogram question.png Not sure It sure would be easy to implement but I feel this would discount the usefulness of the class gallery or style section.
2/3 Pictogram plus.png Agree It would clean up the inconsistencies from the 2D weapon images and make them extremely consistent. The item icons are used all over the wiki in subtle ways such as in crafting recipes or in big lists of weapons but it's time for those to be the defacto 2D image for weapons. Bring Shugo-style to the infobox!
4 Pictogram plus.png Agree Adding the class icons in place of the class name plus sorting the paint table by class would greatly improve the user experience. (I always stress when uploading paint galleries with multiple styles that I may upload to the incorrect style/class)
5 Pictogram minus.png Disagree On top of remaking all the infobox images being an immense amount of work, I feel this would also take away from the usefulness of the style box.
6 Pictogram question.png Not sure I would be more open to this than #5 but I often find that the class gallery images often take me the most time to complete and be happy with. Trying to find good and unique poses and appropriate facial flexes for all 9 classes takes me a fair amount of time. I wish I was faster at it.
7 Pictogram question.png Not sure I kind of agree on this point but I feel it could just be on a cosmetic-by-cosmetic basis. Like we do now, I think, we could only implement this on hats that would benefit from a full paint gallery.
8 Pictogram plus.png Agree I agree with the others on this point, {{Tabs}} would be great for this. I am more for moving the class styles out of the infobox and moving them to the style box. I feel more and more pages suffer from having a long infobox with the inclusion of more all-class, multi-style hats. If they were moved to the style box with tabs, I think many pages would look a whole lot cleaner and compact.
9 Pictogram minus.png Disagree See #8
H20verdrive (talk) 01:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I've been mildly intimidated, procrastinating voting on this for a week, but here we go:
1. Pictogram plus.png Agree Very good stuff.
2. Pictogram question.png Abstain Not sure about this, it might seem awkward on some items. Like others have said I'd want to see it first.
3. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree Seems necessary, but I wonder if there's a more cohesive way to display them.
4. Pictogram plus.png Agree Looks nice, more visual and less clutter.
5. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree Seems alright.
6. Pictogram question.png Abstain It seems a bit clunky and as someone said, might take a lot of work, but theoretically seems useful.
7. Pictogram plus.png Weak Agree As H20verdrive said, probably an item-by-item basis (maybe a "limited run" at first for the articles that need it most?) is best.
8. Pictogram plus.png Agree Looks cool; long infoboxes do need help, but I think it's most contingent upon all-class items.
9. Pictogram minus.png Weak Disagree As all others said, this needs tweaking and removing Styles might be too radical, BUT the "arrange of buttons" might work.
Overall, if I had to give a vote for the whole package, Pictogram plus.png Agree, with tweaking.--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
Well, we got a lot of responses with this discussion, thank you everyone for reading and replying. I guess we could start making some of these proposed changes? Ones that got the most positive votes, while discarding ones that didn't get much positive reception. Perhaps let's talk what should be the best options according to your guys voting. I don't have time to actually write up new template codes and stuff at the moment, however some already have templates available for that (#7), and others should be a little more straightforward in changing (I would imagine that including the Shugo style icons for weapons be quite straightforward, if that would go through). Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Swood suggested me to make a table having total votes from everyone:
Suggestion 1 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 7 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 2 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 7 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 3 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 9 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 4 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 10 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 0
Suggestion 5 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 4 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 4 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 6 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 4 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 4
Suggestion 7 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 8 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 0 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 1
Suggestion 8 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 8 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 1 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 2
Suggestion 9 Pictogram plus.png Agree: 2 Pictogram minus.png Disagree: 3 Pictogram question.png Abstain: 4

My own votings have been included too. I agree with all of the changes I proposed except "5)", which I only suggested since I already had some Style images laying around on my computer, ready to be uploaded if it were to be accepted. Headphones style when? - User Gabrielwoj Signature 1.pngUser Gabrielwoj Signature 2.png - User Gabrielwoj Signature 3.png 17:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Userbox, and creator page

Hey! I have a question, how i add userbox and how i add some decoration to my page like evryone did ? Nonolemage (talk) 13:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

For userboxes see Team Fortress Wiki:User info boxes. Otherwise, the rest of the decoration is up to you. You may be interested in {{User infobox}}.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the info box ! But how exactly i decorate my page ? Like how i use custom image or something like thats ? Did you have a page thats can help me to do this ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Help:Images may help you with how to place images, for images to use, simply upload them using the upload page. The correct format for images only used on your User page is "User Nonolemage [file name]", so for example "User Nonolemage profile picture.png" or "User Nonolemage scout loadout.jpg". When uploading them on the upload page, include [[Category:User images]] in the summary box. This should be done for every image you want to use on your User page.
As for more complicated design, that is usually done using CSS and/or Javascript. I can't help you much with that.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks you a lot ! You realy helped me ! Nonolemage (talk) 14:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Civilian Image

Should we change the image of the Civilian ? Because it's the scout in A pose but the civilain got some real texture thats can be use and found Nonolemage (talk) 12:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

That is how the Civilian class looked when it was still available in TF2, Civilian (Classic) is the TFC version.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:57, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
Oh, but i play a mod of tf2 (tf2c) thats show a finished model of the civilain so maybe i can add a picture of it in the galery for show what it looked finished ? Or it's not important ?Nonolemage (talk) 13:04, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
That's not an official version of it, that's fan-made. No Civilian model or textures has been made for TF2.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:11, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Weapon in user page

Hey it's AGAIN me ! I see some people have a list of weapon they used for evry class but i don't know how to do this, can someone help me ? Nonolemage (talk) 07:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, you could try learning how to use wikitables, there are also templates like Template:Backpack item and Template:User weapon checklist you could use to this effect.
Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Allweapons Nav template

Hi! I've created two mockups as potential replacements for the current Allweapons Nav template. I'd like to get your opinion. You can check out the templates on my sandbox user page (Nav 1 and Nav 2). The "Secondary" label for "All classes" in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it. Thanks! Mgpt (talk) 02:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't really see what's wrong with the current one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Outdated/It's not a "real" nav like the others (Hat/Tool Nav). If someone else comments please compare both so you can see the differences Mgpt (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I did compare both, but it doesn't exactly answer what's wrong with the current one. If people really wanted it changed I'd go for Nav 1, but I would still like to see stock and non-stock separated.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
There's already a nav for them on the weapon page and stock is always the first (they can be in italic, would that work?). I personally prefer Nav 2 because it is actually a nav (not a table) but also consistent with Hat and Tool Nav. Edit: About the availability strings, they shouldn't be there, especially because they're outdated and were added more than 10 years ago. Definitely not the purpose of the template. Mgpt (talk) 20:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I'd prefer for them to be separated regardless, if only in a little box above all of them or with a line separating them. Both the current one and both your versions are technically tables either way, I think a differently structured nav doesn't necessarily make it not a nav or somehow inferior.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 20:39, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Personally, I prefer Nav 1. I like the structure of the current Weapon Nav the way it is, I just don't like the availability strings cluttering things up, and the taunts needlessly listing which weapons they're for. Nav 1 simplifies things in a way that's easier to read, certainly. I'd also be fine with Stock weapons being separated, perhaps with a "Stock" header and then a line break before the others.

Incidentally, re: "the 'Secondary' label for 'All classes' in Nav 2 appears a bit off, and I'm having trouble fixing it."

  • That should be a "Melee" label, as you've probably realized by now.
  • It's looking off because the single list of weapons you've used isn't enough to fill out the space of the column. You'd need at least three lists to fill out the space that the "All Classes" column takes, so the single list you gave sits in the middle. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 10:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
I made some changes, thanks for the input Mgpt (talk) 03:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Nav 1 seems almost set to me, I like the Normal quality grey indication, while still being separated by slot. My only slight nitpick now would be that I'd prefer if the non-stock weapons were organized by release order -- at the moment, reskins of stock are still at the top of the non-stock section, which doesn't make as much sense, now that we've agreed on separating stock into its own box. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 03:33, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
I initially added them randomly from the Weapons page, but I'll definitely reorganize them by release order :D I may scrap the all class section, the idea was not to repeat weapons, but we have the Shotgun, so... Mgpt (talk) 03:45, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Updated the template Mgpt (talk) 19:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

About the 2023 leak

Hello ! Im a translator of the unused content and i see on the social media a leak from 2023 of some map and iteam thats has been abandoned or unfinished. So i was thinking if i can work on it for make some page on the unused content section. (The leak is from a valve employer) Nonolemage (talk) 15:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

As long as you source all of these changes and abide by the leaked content policy. This leak was also not from a Valve employee, as far as I know.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 15:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
So if i understand, i donnt have the right to put any picture of anything if it's from a leak ? And by the way, how did the code for cited content from leak work ? And if it's not from a valve employer, from who it's from ? (Sorry for all my question and thanks for anwsering me ;-;) Nonolemage (talk) 16:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Don't link to any places that host leaked content (so do not link to a Tweet containing a picture of a leaked model, or containing a link to a Google Drive with the leaked content, etc.), do not directly upload media of leaked content or copy-paste code, and do not link to or upload media of recreations of leaked content. All the information you put on the page should contain a reference to where you got it from (see the examples on the policy). It's likely someone with a Source engine license that leaked everything.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 16:19, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
I understand, thanks a lot for your help again and i will do evrything you say ! Nonolemage (talk) 16:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Community Medal Nav (closed)

I feel a bit lost with the medal scheme and how it has been handled. Where exactly is this template supposed to be used? I know that {{Hat Nav}} lists the same contents, which I recently updated. I think we should either use this one and remove the medal section from Hat Nav or just use Hat Nav, no? Thanks in advance Mgpt (talk) 21:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

With the ever-increasing MvM medals, we should remove it from the Hat Nav and keep this one. The Hat Nav will cause pages to be too large at some point.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 21:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Would adding an 'Other' section with two links for Community and Tournament medals work then? With this approach, we also need to update the "Competitive play" Nav. Also, both templates use images, is there a specific reason for that?
Edit: They're also cosmetic items, so they should still be mentioned, in my opinion Mgpt (talk) 21:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I would put the 2 links in the hat nav, then keep the medal nav separately. The comp nav can get rid of it imo, and just having a tournament medal link. I prefer having this separate one.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 22:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I like the template, but it's too big. We don't need images for all the medals: they are exactly the same and this won't scale well if Valve ever allows new medals again (see comp nav). — Tark 00:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
Disagree with "they're exactly the same," they're clearly, almost all of them, not exactly the same, but I know that my opinions about all this don't matter too much anyhow. I would be fine with listing the names of the medals instead, but then they'd all have the name of the operation over and over again, and it would be very clunky to look at. That's how it was in the promo nav to begin with, and that's what I wanted to change -- but then, that would require extra name strings that are just "Shimmering Souvenir", for example, and Swood already said that was too much. The images were my way of compromising on that, considering the Competitive nav already did that, but then that's wrong too, so whatever, I can't do any of this properly. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
They are all the same just with a unique hex paint the MVM ones have been reused over and over, there is no model difference between them other than the paint, If the medals were "different" they would have unique models to go alongside them, but back on subject, theres so many of these damn things it would be nice to be able to filter them out entirely.
Cheddar (talk) 13:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── By "exactly the same", I meant all the MvM medals that share the same model but have a different paint applied. An average user doesn't care if the medal is pink or green, they are way more interested in the model itself. The same applies to the comp nav: we don't have an icon for every season of each tournament, only for different models.
I personally don't see how extra strings are too much and I agree that the icons look way better than whatever is going on with the comp nav template. My point here is that this template currently is too big and has too much repetitive information to work as a navbox.
Also, I know that it is common for us to get attached to our creations (in this case, the template), but suggested changes to a template are usual business. Please don't take it personally, your opinions always matter. — Tark 14:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the "too many strings" were in reference to another nav, where I suggested removing them and replacing them with links to the operation page's rewards section. There were a few medals for each operation with a link to the same section each time. Having too many strings was in reference to the promo nav, not the one we're talking about.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
So if it's suddenly not too much trouble to localize different name strings for use within this nav specifically, for reasons I won't pretend to understand, nor do I care to ask about further, I propose that if we absolutely must, we strip the pictures and the paint splats, and in the case of MVM operations, we have the link to the operation, and then within that category, plain-text names of just the medals, stripped of the operation name and years, when necessary. (That is, "Operation Galvanized Gauntlet Bejeweled Bounty 2023" becomes "Bejeweled Bounty", and so on. Cleaner, easier to read, and you already get that it's supposed to be within that operation.
I would fight for the pictures, but it's clear that's not about to happen for me, and it's best for me to give it up and take the bullet, like I always have to. I'll believe that my opinions always matter when they start being correct ones to have. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 14:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
ThatHatGuy I'm not against your template creation but I searched a little more and its being used with {{Hat Nav}} so we need to decide which one we gonna use, because currently, they have the same contents. Given the opinions above, I think a more neutral solution would be to move the Hat Nav contents to these two templates, so they stay similar to each other. Mgpt (talk) 18:35, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
That didn't matter when some of those event pages, for years, had both the Hat Nav and the Promo Nav on them. The Promo Nav, by definition, has the same stuff that's already on the Hat Nav. Community medals used to be listed individually on there too. Now all of a sudden, there's a new nav, that I made because Swood wanted to separate the Community Medals into their own page, and suddenly, that's something worthy of being dissected and put under a microscope.
Fix it how you all want. I've said my piece about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm doing. — User ThatHatGuy Signature Icon.png 00:53, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
closed given the recent discussion Mgpt (talk) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Trivias without confirmations

Since recent policy change now requiring trivias to have linked confirmations from contributors, there are still many old items that have trivias based on speculations (especially items made by Valve which can't really be confirmed). What should be done with them? User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 09:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Leave them, we'd have to clear out pretty much most trivia sections otherwise. Unless you find proof of the contrary, just leave them.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
What about this one? A promo item that directly references a game from said promotion, but trivia is about completly different character. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
I believe it's a invalid trivia, though changing the name of character and game would be better compare to completely remove the trivia Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 08:20, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
"It is based on one of the male soldiers' hairstyles in the video game UFO: Enemy Unknown" in the first paragraph. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Yeah my bad, mention it 2 times is kind of surplus just remove it. Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 09:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Promo items should have their reference stated in the intro, not Trivia. Feel free to remove, it is possible that the Crafty Hair is modelled after hair that is modelled after said character.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 12:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Reports/Missing template translations reporting erroneous data

It seems like a very handy feature (as handy as the entire reports page), and oddly enough, it seems to report the same thing for all languages (34 templates), and according to the quick look I did, none of them report missing translations?
I don't know who would be able to fix this, if it's even broken to begin with, maybe Darkid?
Do note that I didn't touch template translating very much in my time here, I looked up the line numbers using Notepad++. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

For the first result it looks like fr is not declared in the {{Translation switching| line which probably leads to it showing up in that report. I'm going to guess it's the same for all the other ones. Jh34ghu43gu (talk) 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
I can take a look, thanks for the ping. Darkid « TalkContribs » 03:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Damn, that was as quick as Dustbowl backcap, I sort of expected the "declare thing", but I doubt each of the members would forget to put it in, if that's the issue.
I would also expect hundreds of entries with varying results for every lang, not 34. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 03:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Hmm, looks like I might've screwed up when I changed the regex on Feb 1st (or at least, page history shows a major diff there). Fixing that now, should be corrected tomorrow. Darkid « TalkContribs » 03:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
+622,418 bytes coming through, seems about right! Looks like it's working again, thanks Darkid. Luno 🪐🌕 Talk / Contributions / Team 01:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

A technical request for "Used by" template

"Localized versions of this template are not necessary." Well, they actually are needed, due to inflection of words in some languages. For Polish, "{{Used by|all}}" and "{{Used by|Soldier|etc.}}" sound fine, but "{{Used by|all-except|" needs translation switching, as it sounds very bad when names of classes are not inflected. I don't know about other languages, but some may require it too. For Polish, here's how it should look to be grammatically correct (only for "{{Used by|all-except|"):

Scout = Skauta
Soldier = Żołnierza
Pyro = Pyro
Demoman = Demomana
Heavy = Grubego
Enginner = Inżyniera
Medic = Medyka
Sniper = Snajpera
Spy = Szpiega

User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 14:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

These requests should really be on the template's talk page instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. I've moved it there. User Denied signature.jpg Denied (Talk) 08:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Where can I interact with the community?

Is there a discord or something to interact with the community? Thank You.

QS Quark (talk) 13:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

You can join the IRC if you want. There is no Discord (and we also won't make one).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 13:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

April fool's?

I've been absent a bit because of health issues lately, sorry, but I noticed there's no April Fools thing this year there? :(--Leaderboard class allclass.png Akolyth (talk) 02:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Probably, yes. Since I didn't notice anything relate to April fools event other than the page itself (normally there will be someone create a April fools sandbox page before April fools event).Profiteer the tryhard (talk|contribute) 03:45, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
The only thing that was planned was a patch, no other efforts were made, unfortunately.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 08:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

TFC logo feedback

Hey folks,

We're considering creating a special version of the wiki logo for Classic pages because we think it would add a nice touch. You can check out our current iteration here: logo example.

This logo would only be visible on pages with the "(Classic)" suffix, so it shouldn't affect other types of pages (TF2 and QTF, in particular - we'll of course test it beforehand, similar to our current localized logos test).

But what I'm really here for is to gather feedback. Do you have any strong opinions against it? Maybe a new design in mind? Please let us know! — Tark 14:42, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Pictogram plus.png  I like it, for obvious reasons. I've been using it myself as a subtitute for the regular logo for a while now, and I've grown quite used to it, so I can personally say that you'll get used to it even if it looks a bit odd from the start.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 14:45, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Pictogram plus.png  I like it too, I feel like it adds to the fact that this is the Team Fortress wiki, not just the Team Fortress 2 wiki, in a way. Personally, I don't think I would have any negative opinions against it, since a lot of times you're focused more on an article than the top left corner of the screen. Either way, I feel like it's a welcome, if small, touch to the wiki. ♡ JupiterSphere ♡ ( ◡‿◡ *) ⊱✿⊰ Talk To Me! ⊱✿⊰ 14:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
Pictogram plus.png  Mediarch User Mediarch PFP.pngTalkMy Edits 17:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
I see no issues with the logo.
CheddarTalk 19:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
I've enabled the logo for logged-in users. Please let me know if you find any issues.
If everything goes smoothly, I plan to push it sometime in July, along with translations. — Tark 21:06, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Zombies,Saxton, and V-Script Classes

(if it doesn’t appear, this is signed by Deluxe Fortress, Saturday May 18 2024) (Skip first paragraph to skip the bone and directly to the meat) In the official Zombie Infection game mode, the classes don’t act the same as zombies. They act slightly or completely different from what they were or are from abilities to their role in the team. This ranges from exaggerating their features (such as scout, who has even less health for holy speed) to heavy and engineer (heavy becoming a building buster; engineer becoming a building buster ) and have different stats alongside their main abilities, mainly the (almost) universal 25+ max health increase. They each act very differently and uniquely compared to their human counterparts.

So my suggestion is to make 9 pages for each of the zombie once mercenaries because of how differently they act and what makes them tick. This is a bit much and a bit of points can be bounced back and forth if this is reasonable or not. I can see the point I made first, zombies should have their own pages because of how differently they act. But then again, listing all the stats and finding a zi_ Zombie image that can be turned a full 360• will be extremely tedious. However, same can be said for the first basic human 9 classes.

If the first point is made or not, I’d like to bring up the rest of V-Script and VSH. Saxton Hale, though taking heavy as a place holder, is 100% not heavy, he is Saxton Hale. So should he get his own page separate from the Comic Illustration page and striped directly from the VSH page to have his own page? It’d be easier for navigating and the Disambiguation page would have to be updated, but I can see it being better as its own page so details like Hammer Units Per Blank can be listed and trivia can be separated and therefor shortened if needed. This would require more work, but I think this is more important than the zombies since he’s basically the 11th class.

My 3rd point is community maps. Certain maps like Crasher and CP_Carrier have the classes be drastically different and could have their own page, but is definitely not necessary in my eyes.

My final point is if we get a new gamemode or map that introduces a new class,mechanic,items, or maybe Ms. Pauling in the future illustrated in VSH, do they deserve their own page (or fuse pages, as I could see the comic and gameplay version being fused), get their own content pages?

Thank you for reading, sorry it was long, from Deluxe Fortress DeluxeFortress (talk) 03:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Just asking, anyone know how to get to the point faster? I kinda need that skill right now and the Goliath of text above me kinda concerns me cause I don’t want to put a dang TDA about what an optimal mask is and why it says that on pyros “nose”, and suggestions are appreciated, ty DeluxeFortress (talk) 04:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Pictogram minus.png  I don't think this is a good idea, as game mode-specific info should be on the game mode itself. On the game mode articles right now it's already adequately covered and there isn't nearly as much information on these classes as there is on the regular classes. Regular classes have many unique weapons, unique personalities, many cosmetics, an associated storyline, unique gameplay aspects, etc. For the Zombie classes they would purely be a description of their abilities and the shared universal changes. Looking at the table on Zombie Infection, this would amount to an article that's taken up more by pictures than by actual information.
As for Saxton Hale, he would have a bit more information but it would largely be Saxton Hale with the information from Versus Saxton Hale merged into a single section. I don't think merging the articles is a good idea, personally.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 10:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
I can fully see your point, I don’t have anything to say after that, but I still want other people to reply so I can see everyone’s opinions. Thank you GrampaSwood.
DeluxeFortress (talk) 18:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Pictogram minus.png  I also agree with what GrampaSwood said. I think the specific stats and what makes them tick seems to be covered in the main Zombie infection page. Anything not mentioned in the Zombie infection page could be covered in a little more detail in the Community Zombie Infection strategy page. I think it's better to keep all the gamemode specific information concentrated instead of spreading it out across a bunch of seperate pages that wouldn't have a ton of detail to go over. Same thoughts apply to Saxton Hale. Mediarch User Mediarch PFP.pngTalkMy Edits 18:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Remember to indent your replies with :, and also to add your signature after your message rather than before.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 18:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
I’m still new to this, thank you regardless and have a good morning, or evening, or night I don’t know your time zone. DeluxeFortress (talk) 18:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
To Mediarch, I couldn’t see your reply because of internet issues so here I am now. I completely did not think about the strategy pages, I just remembered those as the competitive players haven. Thank you, and also, should the Editing:Style apply to comments, replies, etc? What I mean by that is “lol,ty,r u ok”..etc in replies like these?
DeluxeFortress (talk) 18:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
No, the style guides don't apply to the discussions, you can write however you want as long as you remain friendly. See Help:Discussion for the guidelines instead.
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 18:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Thank you (for the third time today), I have now read Help:Discussion and I’ll look into the help pages for answers instead of discussion. Seriously cannot thank you enough today

Dell (talk) 19:21, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Homewrecker and The Zombie Engineer

In Zombie Infection, the Engineer has the ability to throw and EMP grenade that can disable Sentries to help his team push through human defenses. However, the Homewrecker and the Neon Annihilator can destroy Sappers. So can the 2 melees destroy the Engineer’s grenades or is the Homewrecker a direct downgrade in Zombie Infection as no Spies can use the Sapper? The main reason I’m asking this is because I was going to add a strategy for the Neon and I didn’t want to edit the main strategy I was going to put and have to put the possible destroying grenades mechanic after, where I’d be going back to the edit I just made and changing it to add another. To put in simple terms, I’ve 2 strategies for a weapon, I know I can put 1, but not the other, so I went here to see if anyone knew the answer to this question here. I’m guessing “probably not”, but I don’t want to fully shut down the possibility and have to edit an edit which I learned was unfavorable. Sorry this was long. Dell (talk) 00:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Seeing as the EMP Grenade is not a Sapper, it's safe to assume they can't be used to destroy it. Also, be careful with spaces in front of talk page entries, as they put the whole thing in a box with may mess with formatting (e.g. indents can't be used).
BLU Wiki Cap.png | s | GrampaSwood Praise the Sun! (talk) (contribs) 10:18, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

#savetf2

Deer wiki admins. there is a petition going around supporting #savetf2 on the website save.tf. I think this wiki should support this petition by advertising the site on the main page I think this would help the petition a lot and by proxy help TF2 in general a lot so if the admins (or whoever edits the main page) were to do so I would be very happy. Yours truly Manman24 (talk) 00:44, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

I feel as though this isn't neccessary. Whilst it is a nice sentiment, it doesn't really have a place in the wiki. Specifically, not promoted at the Main Page, or anything that is high traffic. What you can do, however, is promote it on your userpage to show your support! Cheers — jestie. Beggar's Bazooka.png Talk Speech voice.png 02:33, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Hello! We appreciate the invitation, but participating in this petition as a group goes against our Community engagement policy. That said, all wiki members are free to support community activities personally, as long as it doesn't imply official endorsement from the wiki.
Thank you for understanding. — Tark 03:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)