Difference between revisions of "Community Mann Manor strategy"

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{{community strategy stub|This page could use strategy specific to the map itself besides that applying to the HHH, Mention some of the differences from the [[Mountain Lab|standard variant]] and how they may affect combat. ''Note: True most of the article is about the HHH, but even though the HHH now appears on other maps, the HHH is the most unique element of the map AND strategy for engaging and defeating the HHH and [[Horseless_Headless_Horsemann#Ghostchievements|obtaining the achievements]] applies ''only'' on this map; on each of the other maps, engaging the HHH bad strategy.'' }}
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{{Map infobox
 
{{Map infobox
| game-type = Control Point
+
  | map-strategy                = yes
| file-name = cp_manor_event
+
  | map-status                  = community
| map-image = mannmanor_cp_01.png
+
  | map-name                    = Mann Manor
| developer = [[Valve]]<br>{{steamid|id|Y_M|Tim "YM" Johnson}}<br>{{steamid|id|Emeriastone|Alex "Rexy" Kreeger}}
+
  | map-game-type               = Control Point
| map-environment = Halloween
+
  | map-file-name               = cp_manor_event
| map-setting = Nighttime
+
  | map-image                   = mannmanor_cp_01.png
| map-hazards = [[Pumpkin bomb]]s,<br />[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]],<br/ >[[Environmental_death#Pit Fall Death|Pit]]
+
  | map-released                = {{Patch name|10|27|2010}}
| map-health-pickups-small = 6
+
  | map-released-major          = Scream Fortress Update
| map-health-pickups-medium = 9
+
  | map-environment             = Halloween
| map-health-pickups-large = 1
+
  | map-setting                 = Nighttime, overcast
| map-ammo-pickups-small = 4
+
  | map-hazards                 = [[Pumpkin bomb]]s,<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]],<br>[[Environmental_death#Pitfalls|Pit]]
| map-ammo-pickups-medium = 6
+
  | map-has-pyrovision          = yes
| map-ammo-pickups-large = 2
+
  | map-pickups-health-small   = 6
| map-special-pickups-hhgift = yes
+
  | map-pickups-health-medium   = 9
| map-special-pickups-pumpkin = yes
+
  | map-pickups-health-large   = 1
 +
  | map-pickups-ammo-small     = 4
 +
  | map-pickups-ammo-medium     = 6
 +
  | map-pickups-ammo-large     = 2
 +
  | map-pickups-special-sgg    = yes
 +
  | map-pickups-special-pumpkin = yes
 +
  | map-stamp-link              = https://steamcommunity.com/stats/TF2/leaderboards/30393
 +
  | map-has-bots                = yes
 
}}
 
}}
 +
 +
{{hatnote|This article is about strategy specific to the [[Halloween map|Halloween]] variant of [[Mountain Lab]]. For strategy specific to the standard variant, see [[Community Mountain Lab strategy]].}}
  
 
This article is about '''Community Mann Manor strategy'''.
 
This article is about '''Community Mann Manor strategy'''.
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 +
'''Note''': It is recommended to read the main [[Mann Manor]] article first to become familiar with the names of key map locations used in this article.
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 +
{{TOC limit|3}}
  
 
== General Map Strategy ==
 
== General Map Strategy ==
*This map is a reskin of [[Mountain Lab]], so any [[Community Mountain Lab strategy|strategies]] that apply there will work here.
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''This Halloween map features [[pumpkin bomb]]s, [[Halloween pumpkin]]s, and the [[Soul Gargoyle]]; see [[Community Halloween maps strategy]].''
*When [[Halloween mode]] is enabled, the [[Horseless Headless Horsemann]] will spawn.
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**The Horsemann can traverse the entire map except for spawn rooms and a few ledges, such as a rooftop between point A and B which Scouts, Soldiers and Demomen can access. If you are IT, going up here will cause HHH to lose interest and chase someone else.
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*This map is a reskin of [[Mountain Lab]], so any class specific [[Community Mountain Lab strategy|strategies]] that apply there will work here.
**Wearing a [[Saxton Hale Mask]] or [[Horseless Headless Horsemann's Head]] will prevent you from getting stunned by the Horsemann.
 
*This map features re-spawning [[Pumpkin Bomb]] traps. Acknowledge their locations, since they appear at certain chokepoints and are worth shooting if a group of enemies are close by.
 
  
 
== General Horseless Headless Horsemann Strategy ==
 
== General Horseless Headless Horsemann Strategy ==
  
 +
*The Horsemann can traverse the entire map except for spawn rooms and a few ledges, such as a rooftop between points A and B which Scouts, Soldiers and Demomen can access. If you are IT, going up to these ledges will cause the Horsemann to lose interest in you and chase someone else.
 +
*When you are IT and the spots above aren't nearby, look for enemies to either run around or hit with your melee weapon (the latter will pass the IT status to them). Doing so gives you a better chance of surviving being IT.
 +
*Wearing a [[Saxton Hale Mask]] or [[Horseless Headless Horsemann's Head]] will prevent you from getting [[stun]]ned by the Horsemann's taunt.
 +
*The Horsemann runs at Scout speed, so do not attempt to outrun him unless you are a Demoman and have a [[Demoman shield|shield]] with you.
 +
*A strategy for the player designated IT is to act as bait for the Horsemann, while all other players inflict as much damage as they can.
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*The Horsemann's target can trap him by standing on the ledge behind the wall of the shack on the rock outcrop. Standing there while you are IT makes the Horsemann attack the wall of the shack and ignore all other players for the duration that you are IT, including those attacking him with melee weapons.
 +
*Another effective spot for trapping the Horsemann is just in front of BLU's spawn in the shelf-filled building; by crouch-jumping onto the barrel and then again onto the middle shelves, one can stand on top and the Horsemann will run about below, trying to attack the player. While upon the shelves the player and other teammates can safely attack the Horsemann until he dies or switches targets.
 +
*The control points stay active while the Horseless Headless Horsemann is out. It is a good strategy to use this time to take control of the point while the enemy is distracted.
 +
**If you are IT and are near the currently contested point, you can try to lead the Horsemann to enemies trying to cap the point.
 +
**On RED, while defending the last point, stay close to the spawn and wait until someone on your team is IT. The Horsemann will spend a lot of time chasing the BLU team, defending the point for you.
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*Use the gap around the final control point as a buffer. If the Horsemann gets too close, it is possible to simply jump the gap while he will be forced to maneuver around the crack in the floor in order to reach you.
 +
*While the Horsemann can chase IT onto the roof of B, he cannot chase players onto the roofs of the buildings near it. Therefore, it is still possible to deal damage without the risk of being killed.
 +
*The Horsemann cannot jump, but he will walk off of ledges and fall down to reach those marked as IT.
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 +
== Class-specific Horseless Headless Horsemann Strategy ==
 
{| class="wikitable grid" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
 
{| class="wikitable grid" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
 
! class="header" colspan="3" width="200"| Class
 
! class="header" colspan="3" width="200"| Class
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{{Info}}Hit-and-run tactics are a necessity when attacking [[Horseless Headless Horsemann]].
 
{{Info}}Hit-and-run tactics are a necessity when attacking [[Horseless Headless Horsemann]].
  
{{Pro}}[[Bonk! Atomic Punch]] will allow you to survive the Horsemann's melee attack.
+
{{Pro}}[[Bonk! Atomic Punch]] will allow you to survive the Horsemann's melee attack. Just stay at a distance so as to not get killed while consuming it.
 +
 
 +
{{Pro}} The [[Winger]] can be used for extra damage. The frequent reloading can be negated by staying at a distance.
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 +
{{Pro}} The [[Force-A-Nature]], while it may not be used for direct combat, also makes for a mobility weapon if you are good with force jumps.
  
{{Pro}}The [[Soda Popper]] is an ineffective weapon to use as the Horsemann does not take damage from mini-crits.
+
{{Pro}} The [[Atomizer]] and [[Soda Popper]] are an upgrade in terms of evasion. You're not likely to engage in melee combat with the Horsemann anyway, so it's downsides are negligible.  
  
{{Con}}Do not use [[Crit-a-Cola]] against the Horsemann. Your attacks will deal no extra damage and will make it easier for the Horsemann to kill you.
+
{{Con}}The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes:, [[Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol]], [[Flying Guillotine]] [[Crit-a-Cola]], [[Mad Milk]], [[Sandman]], [[Candy Cane]], [[Boston Basher]] / [[Three-Rune Blade]], [[Sun-on-a-Stick]], [[Fan O'War]] and [[Wrap Assassin]].
 
{{Con}}The [[Sandman]] baseball and [[Fan O'War]] are ineffective against the Horsemann as it cannot be [[stun]]ned by baseballs or marked for death, respectively.
 
  
 
|-
 
|-
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| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:HHH.png|100x100px|link=the Horsemann]]<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]]
 
| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:HHH.png|100x100px|link=the Horsemann]]<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]]
 
|
 
|
{{Info}} [[Jumping#Rocket jump|Rocket jumping]] is a viable method of retreating if the Horsemann is chasing you. Jumping from the different heights around Control Point B will force the Horsemann to take long routes, and may give up chasing you.
+
{{Info}} [[Jumping#Rocket jump|Rocket jumping]] is a viable method of retreating if the Horsemann is chasing you. Jumping from the different heights around Control Point B will force the Horsemann to take long routes, and he may give up chasing you.
  
 
{{Pro}} A [[Kritzkrieg]] [[ÜberCharge]] will allow a skilled Soldier to make short work of the Horsemann, as a pack of [[critical hits|critical]] rockets and [[Shotgun]] shells will take a large chunk of its health away. This can be combined with rocket jumping to stay clear of the Horsemann's melee attack.
 
{{Pro}} A [[Kritzkrieg]] [[ÜberCharge]] will allow a skilled Soldier to make short work of the Horsemann, as a pack of [[critical hits|critical]] rockets and [[Shotgun]] shells will take a large chunk of its health away. This can be combined with rocket jumping to stay clear of the Horsemann's melee attack.
  
{{Pro}} The [[Direct Hit]] is probably the Soldier's best primary weapon to use against the Horsemann. The projectiles are fast and do high damage, and the Horsemann is large enough for you not to worry too much about missing it.
+
{{Pro}} The [[Direct Hit]] is probably the Soldier's best primary weapon to use against the Horsemann. The projectiles are fast and do high damage, and the Horsemann is large enough for you not to worry too much about missing it.
  
{{Pro}} The Shotgun can be effective against the Horsemann as base damage remains the same when attacking it. This will allow you to do more damage from a longer range than normal.
+
{{Pro}} The Shotgun can be effective against the Horsemann as base damage remains the same when attacking him. This will allow you to do more damage from a longer range than normal.
  
{{Con}}Charging the Horsemann with the [[Equalizer]] at very low health will only be effective if the enemy team is not around and the Horsemann is stunned, as your crits will deal around 300 damage. Otherwise, it's a risky strategy.
+
{{Pro}} While the [[Cow Mangler 5000]] might not deal much damage, it is good as an escape weapon due to the extra ammo loaded and infinite ammo carried. You can perform better escapes from the Horsemann, especially with the [[Gunboats]] equipped for survivability.
  
{{Con}}The [[Black Box]] does not award health upon hitting the Horsemann and is a considerable drawback when its reduced ammo is taken into account.
+
{{Pro}} The [[Disciplinary Action]] can help classes escape from the Horsemann, especially Heavies and other Soldiers.
  
{{Con}}The [[Buff Banner]] does not charge from the Horsemann, and mini-crits do not work on him either.
+
{{Con}}Charging the Horsemann with the [[Equalizer]] at very low health will only be effective if the enemy team is not around and the Horsemann is very distracted, as your crits will deal around 300 damage. Otherwise, it's a risky strategy.
 +
 
 +
{{Con}}The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit, and on-kill attributes: [[Black Box]], [[Buff Banner]], [[Battalion's Backup]], [[Concheror]], [[Reserve Shooter]] and [[Half-Zatoichi]].
  
 
|-
 
|-
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| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:HHH.png|100x100px|link=the Horsemann]]<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]]
 
| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:HHH.png|100x100px|link=the Horsemann]]<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]]
 
|
 
|
{{Info}}Because the Horsemann does not suffer afterburn damage, using the Pyro against the Horsemann is inadvisable. In addition, the Pyro's short range of effectiveness and the Horsemann's resistance to [[Flamethrower]]s makes attacking head-on a very deadly prospect.
+
{{Info}}Because the Horsemann does not suffer [[afterburn]] damage, using the Pyro against the Horsemann is inadvisable. In addition, the Pyro's short range of effectiveness and the Horsemann's resistance to [[Flamethrower]]s makes attacking head-on a very deadly prospect.
  
 
{{Pro}}The [[Backburner]] can be moderately effective if the Horsemann is distracted.
 
{{Pro}}The [[Backburner]] can be moderately effective if the Horsemann is distracted.
  
{{Pro}}The Shotgun can be effective against the Horsemann as base damage remains the same when attacking it. This will allow you to do more damage from a longer range than normal.
+
{{Pro}}Using the [[Phlogistinator]]'s Mmmph is useful as well, since the crits will inflict a great deal of damage to the Horsemann.
  
{{Con}}The Reserve Shooter will not mini-crit against the Horsemann so this is not recommended.
+
{{Pro}}The Shotgun can be effective against the Horsemann as base damage remains the same when attacking him. This will allow you to do more damage from a longer range than normal.
  
{{Con}}The [[Flare Gun]] and the [[Detonator]] are possibly some of the worst weapons to use against the Horsemann as he cannot catch on fire. Only the minimal flare impact damage will register.
+
{{Con}}[[Compression blast|Airblasts]] will not work on the Horsemann as he cannot be knocked back.
  
{{Con}}Airblasts will not work on the Horsemann as he cannot be knocked back.
+
{{Con}}The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: [[Flare Gun]], [[Detonator]], [[Scorch Shot]], [[Manmelter]],  [[Reserve Shooter]], [[Axtinguisher]] / [[Postal Pummeler]], [[Powerjack]] and [[Sharpened Volcano Fragment]].
 
|-
 
|-
 
| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:Demoman.png|100x100px|link=Demoman]]<br>[[Demoman match-ups|Demoman]]
 
| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:Demoman.png|100x100px|link=Demoman]]<br>[[Demoman match-ups|Demoman]]
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{{Info}}You can try to retreat by charging with the [[Chargin' Targe]] or [[Splendid Screen]] in a single direction across open ground.
 
{{Info}}You can try to retreat by charging with the [[Chargin' Targe]] or [[Splendid Screen]] in a single direction across open ground.
  
{{Pro}}Direct hits with the [[Grenade Launcher]] or [[Loch-n-Load]] will cause large amounts of damage to the Horsemann, so it is advisable to lead your shots slightly to ensure they connect. This strategy is especially effective with a Kritzkrieg ÜberCharge.
+
{{Pro}}Direct hits with the [[Grenade Launcher]] or [[Loch-n-Load]] will deal large amounts of damage to the Horsemann, so it is advisable to lead your shots slightly to ensure they connect. This strategy is especially effective with a [[Kritzkrieg]] ÜberCharge.
  
{{Pro}}Stickybomb traps are very effective against the Horsemann, as he will not try to avoid them, it just requires having the IT player lure the Horsemann onto the trap.
+
{{Pro}}Stickybomb traps are very effective against the Horsemann, as he will not try to avoid them; it just requires having the IT player lure the Horsemann onto the trap. This works even better with the [[Scottish Resistance]], since it has 6 extra bombs and a faster fire rate at the cost of a slower arming time. Plan your traps well.
  
{{Con}}Playing as a Demoknight is risky as the Horsemann attacks if it feels something is blocking its movement, and a player will be made IT if they are closest when the Horsemann changes target.
+
{{Pro}} Convincing a Medic to use a Kritzkrieg charge on you to lay sticky bombs can deal huge damage in a single hit. A cluster of critical stickybombs will take a huge chunk of its health away and can kill it very quickly.
  
 +
{{Con}}Playing as a Demoknight is risky as the Horsemann attacks if he feels something is blocking his movement, and a player will be made IT if they are closest when the Horsemann changes target.
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 +
{{Con}}The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: [[Eyelander]] / [[Horseless Headless Horsemann's Headtaker]] / [[Nessie's Nine Iron]], [[Persian Persuader]], [[Claidheamh Mòr]], and [[Half-Zatoichi]].
  
 
|-
 
|-
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| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:HHH.png|100x100px|link=the Horsemann]]<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]]
 
| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:HHH.png|100x100px|link=the Horsemann]]<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]]
 
|
 
|
{{Info}}The Heavy is one of the best classes to go head-on against the Horsemann. Despite its resistance to Minigun bullets, any Minigun will shred the boss in a matter of seconds at short range, even without crits.  
+
{{Info}}The Heavy is one of the best classes to go head-on against the Horsemann. Despite his resistance to [[Minigun]] bullets, any Minigun will shred the boss in a matter of seconds at short range, even without crits.
 +
 
 +
{{Info}}The Heavy is slow, thus vulnerable, if he does not have a Medic pocketing him ready to pull an Über if the Horsemann picks either of them as his next target. The [[G.R.U]] and the [[Buffalo Steak Sandvich]] give some time to prepare for escapes, especially if he is still firing if he is marked as IT.
  
{{Info}}The Heavy is slow thus vulnerable if he does not have a Medic pocketing him ready to pull an Uber if the Horsemann picks either of them as their next target.
+
{{Pro}} A Heavy under the effects of a [[Kritzkrieg]] can shred the boss in mere seconds, and since the Horsemann targets those who are closest to him, and critical hits have no damage falloff, this can be done quite safely.
  
{{Con}}The [[Buffalo Steak Sandvich]] is not recommended except to attempt quick getaways.
+
{{Pro}} The [[Tomislav]] has good use for hit and run strategies, due to its faster spin-up time. Just remember that the fire rate is lower than the other Miniguns.
  
 
{{Con}}The Shotgun should rarely be used, as the time between shots and damage spread mean you will always get more damage from your primary weapon. Nonetheless, if you have run out of ammunition for your primary weapon, remember that base damage remains constant while attacking the Horsemann, so you can use the Shotgun effectively from further ranges than normal.
 
{{Con}}The Shotgun should rarely be used, as the time between shots and damage spread mean you will always get more damage from your primary weapon. Nonetheless, if you have run out of ammunition for your primary weapon, remember that base damage remains constant while attacking the Horsemann, so you can use the Shotgun effectively from further ranges than normal.
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{{Con}} The [[Brass Beast]], even under a Kritzkrieg charge, is only recommended if the Horsemann is distracted and you are far away, since you are very slow while revving and moving with it, which gives the Horsemann and even the enemy team a good reason to attack you.
 +
 +
{{Con}}The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: [[Natascha]], [[Buffalo Steak Sandvich]], [[Killing Gloves of Boxing]], [[Fists of Steel]], [[Warrior's Spirit]], [[Eviction Notice]], and [[Holiday Punch]].
  
 
|-
 
|-
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| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:HHH.png|100x100px|link=the Horsemann]]<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]]
 
| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:HHH.png|100x100px|link=the Horsemann]]<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]]
 
|
 
|
{{Info}}Since the Horsemann is not affected by knock back, the player should never rely on his sentry to keep the monster away.
+
{{Info}}Since the Horsemann is not affected by [[knock back]], the player should never rely on his Sentry Gun to keep the monster away.
  
{{Info}}the Horsemann will attack anything he walks into - this includes players and buildings.
+
{{Info}}The Horsemann will attack anything he walks into - this includes players and buildings. He generally won't pay attention to them unless the player who is IT is alongside a building.
  
{{Pro}}Sentry Guns will target the Horsemann even when it is outside their normal range.
+
{{Pro}}Sentry Guns will target the Horsemann even when he is outside their normal range.
  
{{Pro}}Because Sentry Guns never deal critical hits (except mini-crits, which do not affect the Horsemann), your Sentry Gun can be an effective way to deal damage to the Horsemann without angering it. Use the Wrangler for maximum damage.
+
{{Pro}}Because Sentry Guns never deal critical hits (except mini-crits, which do not affect the Horsemann), your Sentry Gun can be an effective way to deal damage to the Horsemann without risking being marked as IT. Use the [[Wrangler]] for maximum damage.
  
 
{{Pro}}The Shotgun and Pistol can both be effective against the Horsemann as their base damage remains the same when attacking it. This will allow you to do more damage from a longer range than normal.  
 
{{Pro}}The Shotgun and Pistol can both be effective against the Horsemann as their base damage remains the same when attacking it. This will allow you to do more damage from a longer range than normal.  
  
{{Con}}The [[Widowmaker]] does not return metal for damage done to the Horsemann.
+
{{Con}}The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: [[Widowmaker]] and [[Southern Hospitality]].
 
|-
 
|-
 
| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:Medic.png|100x100px|link=Medic]]<br>[[Medic match-ups|Medic]]
 
| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:Medic.png|100x100px|link=Medic]]<br>[[Medic match-ups|Medic]]
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{{Info}}If you do not have an ÜberCharge ready, it is best advised to stay away and build one up, as the Horsemann attacks in order of whoever is closest.
 
{{Info}}If you do not have an ÜberCharge ready, it is best advised to stay away and build one up, as the Horsemann attacks in order of whoever is closest.
  
{{Info}}Most of the Medic's weapons are relatively ineffective, so the Medic should be reserved to a support role. Use your ÜberCharge on a teammate so they can attack the Horsemann.
+
{{Info}}Most of the Medic's weapons are relatively ineffective, so the Medic should be reserved to a support role. Use your ÜberCharge on teammates so they can attack the Horsemann.
 +
 
 +
{{Pro}} If you are really aggressive against the Horsemann, then the [[Vita-Saw]] can allow you to deploy ÜberCharges more quickly. The health penalty is negligible since the Horsemann's axe is an instant kill anyway.
 +
 
 +
{{Con}}It is risky to use the [[Quick-Fix]] or the Kritzkrieg against the Horsemann, as The Horsemann's melee attack takes 80% of the target's base (not current) health except against Übered players and Dead Ringer Spies. However, at a distance, the Kritzkrieg charge is effective at dispatching the Horsemann.
  
{{Con}}It is risky to use the [[Quick-Fix]] or the [[Kritzkrieg]] against the Horsemann, as The Horsemann's melee attack is a 1-Hit KO except against Ubered players and Dead Ringer spies.
+
{{Con}}The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: [[Blutsauger]] and [[Ubersaw]].
  
 
|-
 
|-
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| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:HHH.png|100x100px|link=the Horsemann]]<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]]
 
| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:HHH.png|100x100px|link=the Horsemann]]<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]]
 
|
 
|
{{Info}}The basic [[Sniper Rifle]] has medium effectiveness against the Horsemann, as headshots do not deal extra damage. However, charging shots is still worthwhile as the damage will properly scale against the Horsemann. The [[Machina]] will deal slightly more damage in this regard.
+
{{Info}}The basic [[Sniper Rifle]] has medium effectiveness against the Horsemann, as [[headshots]] do not deal extra damage. However, charging shots is still worthwhile as the damage will properly scale against the Horsemann. The [[Machina]] will deal slightly more damage in this regard.
  
 
{{Pro}}The [[Sydney Sleeper]]'s faster charge rate makes it more useful than the standard Sniper Rifle, since the Sniper Rifle can not score headshots on the Horsemann.
 
{{Pro}}The [[Sydney Sleeper]]'s faster charge rate makes it more useful than the standard Sniper Rifle, since the Sniper Rifle can not score headshots on the Horsemann.
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{{Pro}}Additionally, the [[Huntsman]] is the only Sniper weapon that can cause critical hits upon headshotting the Horsemann.
 
{{Pro}}Additionally, the [[Huntsman]] is the only Sniper weapon that can cause critical hits upon headshotting the Horsemann.
  
{{Con}}[[Jarate]] does not affect the Horsemann.
+
{{Pro}} The [[SMG]] is viable as a last resort weapon if the Horsemann is actively chasing you. You'll probably use up the three clips it has by the time he kills you anyway.
 +
 
 +
{{Con}}The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: [[Bazaar Bargain]], [[Cleaner's Carbine]], [[Jarate]], [[Tribalman's Shiv]] and [[Bushwacka]].
 
|-
 
|-
 
| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:Spy_RED.png|100x100px|link=Spy]]<br>[[Spy match-ups|Spy]]
 
| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:Spy_RED.png|100x100px|link=Spy]]<br>[[Spy match-ups|Spy]]
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| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:HHH.png|100x100px|link=the Horsemann]]<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]]
 
| class="small" align="center" valign="center" style="padding:0.5em" | [[Image:HHH.png|100x100px|link=the Horsemann]]<br>[[Horseless Headless Horsemann]]
 
|
 
|
{{Info}}The [[Dead Ringer]]'s feign death ability will allow you to survive one hit, however the Horsemann will continue to follow you even when cloaked.
+
{{Info}}The [[Dead Ringer]]'s feign death ability will allow you to survive one hit; however, the Horsemann will continue to follow you even when cloaked.
 
 
{{Pro}}The [[Revolver]] and the [[Enforcer]] are the most viable weapons to use, although it should only be used against the Horsemann if it is focused on another player.
 
  
{{Con}}The [[Spy]] is rather ineffective against the Horsemann as a [[Backstab]] only does normal knife damage, rendering its primary function useless.
+
{{Pro}}The [[Revolver]] and the [[Enforcer]] are the most viable weapons to use, although they should only be used against the Horsemann if he is focused on another player.
  
{{Con}}The [[Ambassador]] cannot score headshots against the Horsemann.
+
{{Con}}The Spy is rather ineffective against the Horsemann, as a [[Backstab]] only does normal knife damage, rendering its primary function useless.
  
{{Con}}As with any other on-hit effect weapons, [[Your Eternal Reward]], [[Conniver's Kunai]] and the [[Big Earner]] will not grant you a bonus upon getting the last hit on the Horsemann and should be avoided.  
+
{{Con}}The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: [[Ambassador]], [[L'Etranger]], [[Your Eternal Reward]] / [[Wanga Prick]], [[Conniver's Kunai]] and [[Big Earner]].
  
 
|}
 
|}
  
 
{{Map strategy}}
 
{{Map strategy}}
 +
[[Category:HHH]]

Latest revision as of 18:38, 20 March 2024

Mann Manor
Mannmanor cp 01.png
Basic Information
Map type: Control Point
File name: cp_manor_event
Released: October 27, 2010 Patch
(Scream Fortress Update)
Variants: Mountain Lab
Developer(s): Valve
Tim "YM" Johnson
Alex "Rexy" Kreeger
Map Info
Environment: Halloween
Setting: Nighttime, overcast
Hazards: Pumpkin bombs,
Horseless Headless Horsemann,
Pit
Pyrovision Support: Yes
Bot support: Yes
Map Items
Healthico.png Health Kits: Healthbar.png ×6  •  Healthpie.png ×9  •  
Health Cauldron.png ×1
Ammoico.png Ammo Boxes: Smallammo.png ×4   •   Mediumammo.png ×6   •  
Largeammo.png ×2
TF2 crosshair.png Special: Gargoyle Ghost.png   •   Pumpkin.png
Map Photos
Loading screen photos.
Map Overview
Mann Manor overview.png
This article is about strategy specific to the Halloween variant of Mountain Lab. For strategy specific to the standard variant, see Community Mountain Lab strategy.

This article is about Community Mann Manor strategy.

Note: It is recommended to read the main Mann Manor article first to become familiar with the names of key map locations used in this article.

General Map Strategy

This Halloween map features pumpkin bombs, Halloween pumpkins, and the Soul Gargoyle; see Community Halloween maps strategy.

General Horseless Headless Horsemann Strategy

  • The Horsemann can traverse the entire map except for spawn rooms and a few ledges, such as a rooftop between points A and B which Scouts, Soldiers and Demomen can access. If you are IT, going up to these ledges will cause the Horsemann to lose interest in you and chase someone else.
  • When you are IT and the spots above aren't nearby, look for enemies to either run around or hit with your melee weapon (the latter will pass the IT status to them). Doing so gives you a better chance of surviving being IT.
  • Wearing a Saxton Hale Mask or Horseless Headless Horsemann's Head will prevent you from getting stunned by the Horsemann's taunt.
  • The Horsemann runs at Scout speed, so do not attempt to outrun him unless you are a Demoman and have a shield with you.
  • A strategy for the player designated IT is to act as bait for the Horsemann, while all other players inflict as much damage as they can.
  • The Horsemann's target can trap him by standing on the ledge behind the wall of the shack on the rock outcrop. Standing there while you are IT makes the Horsemann attack the wall of the shack and ignore all other players for the duration that you are IT, including those attacking him with melee weapons.
  • Another effective spot for trapping the Horsemann is just in front of BLU's spawn in the shelf-filled building; by crouch-jumping onto the barrel and then again onto the middle shelves, one can stand on top and the Horsemann will run about below, trying to attack the player. While upon the shelves the player and other teammates can safely attack the Horsemann until he dies or switches targets.
  • The control points stay active while the Horseless Headless Horsemann is out. It is a good strategy to use this time to take control of the point while the enemy is distracted.
    • If you are IT and are near the currently contested point, you can try to lead the Horsemann to enemies trying to cap the point.
    • On RED, while defending the last point, stay close to the spawn and wait until someone on your team is IT. The Horsemann will spend a lot of time chasing the BLU team, defending the point for you.
  • Use the gap around the final control point as a buffer. If the Horsemann gets too close, it is possible to simply jump the gap while he will be forced to maneuver around the crack in the floor in order to reach you.
  • While the Horsemann can chase IT onto the roof of B, he cannot chase players onto the roofs of the buildings near it. Therefore, it is still possible to deal damage without the risk of being killed.
  • The Horsemann cannot jump, but he will walk off of ledges and fall down to reach those marked as IT.

Class-specific Horseless Headless Horsemann Strategy

Class Strategy
Scout.png
Scout
vs HHH.png
Horseless Headless Horsemann
Pictogram info.png Playing as Scout allows you to evade the Horsemann's attacks more easily than other classes with your jumping and running abilities.

Pictogram info.png Hit-and-run tactics are a necessity when attacking Horseless Headless Horsemann.

Pictogram plus.png Bonk! Atomic Punch will allow you to survive the Horsemann's melee attack. Just stay at a distance so as to not get killed while consuming it.

Pictogram plus.png  The Winger can be used for extra damage. The frequent reloading can be negated by staying at a distance.

Pictogram plus.png  The Force-A-Nature, while it may not be used for direct combat, also makes for a mobility weapon if you are good with force jumps.

Pictogram plus.png  The Atomizer and Soda Popper are an upgrade in terms of evasion. You're not likely to engage in melee combat with the Horsemann anyway, so it's downsides are negligible.

Pictogram minus.png The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes:, Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol, Flying Guillotine Crit-a-Cola, Mad Milk, Sandman, Candy Cane, Boston Basher / Three-Rune Blade, Sun-on-a-Stick, Fan O'War and Wrap Assassin.

Soldier.png
Soldier
vs HHH.png
Horseless Headless Horsemann

Pictogram info.png  Rocket jumping is a viable method of retreating if the Horsemann is chasing you. Jumping from the different heights around Control Point B will force the Horsemann to take long routes, and he may give up chasing you.

Pictogram plus.png  A Kritzkrieg ÜberCharge will allow a skilled Soldier to make short work of the Horsemann, as a pack of critical rockets and Shotgun shells will take a large chunk of its health away. This can be combined with rocket jumping to stay clear of the Horsemann's melee attack.

Pictogram plus.png  The Direct Hit is probably the Soldier's best primary weapon to use against the Horsemann. The projectiles are fast and do high damage, and the Horsemann is large enough for you not to worry too much about missing it.

Pictogram plus.png  The Shotgun can be effective against the Horsemann as base damage remains the same when attacking him. This will allow you to do more damage from a longer range than normal.

Pictogram plus.png  While the Cow Mangler 5000 might not deal much damage, it is good as an escape weapon due to the extra ammo loaded and infinite ammo carried. You can perform better escapes from the Horsemann, especially with the Gunboats equipped for survivability.

Pictogram plus.png  The Disciplinary Action can help classes escape from the Horsemann, especially Heavies and other Soldiers.

Pictogram minus.png Charging the Horsemann with the Equalizer at very low health will only be effective if the enemy team is not around and the Horsemann is very distracted, as your crits will deal around 300 damage. Otherwise, it's a risky strategy.

Pictogram minus.png The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit, and on-kill attributes: Black Box, Buff Banner, Battalion's Backup, Concheror, Reserve Shooter and Half-Zatoichi.

Pyro.png
Pyro
vs HHH.png
Horseless Headless Horsemann

Pictogram info.png Because the Horsemann does not suffer afterburn damage, using the Pyro against the Horsemann is inadvisable. In addition, the Pyro's short range of effectiveness and the Horsemann's resistance to Flamethrowers makes attacking head-on a very deadly prospect.

Pictogram plus.png The Backburner can be moderately effective if the Horsemann is distracted.

Pictogram plus.png Using the Phlogistinator's Mmmph is useful as well, since the crits will inflict a great deal of damage to the Horsemann.

Pictogram plus.png The Shotgun can be effective against the Horsemann as base damage remains the same when attacking him. This will allow you to do more damage from a longer range than normal.

Pictogram minus.png Airblasts will not work on the Horsemann as he cannot be knocked back.

Pictogram minus.png The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: Flare Gun, Detonator, Scorch Shot, Manmelter, Reserve Shooter, Axtinguisher / Postal Pummeler, Powerjack and Sharpened Volcano Fragment.

Demoman.png
Demoman
vs HHH.png
Horseless Headless Horsemann

Pictogram info.png You can try to retreat by charging with the Chargin' Targe or Splendid Screen in a single direction across open ground.

Pictogram plus.png Direct hits with the Grenade Launcher or Loch-n-Load will deal large amounts of damage to the Horsemann, so it is advisable to lead your shots slightly to ensure they connect. This strategy is especially effective with a Kritzkrieg ÜberCharge.

Pictogram plus.png Stickybomb traps are very effective against the Horsemann, as he will not try to avoid them; it just requires having the IT player lure the Horsemann onto the trap. This works even better with the Scottish Resistance, since it has 6 extra bombs and a faster fire rate at the cost of a slower arming time. Plan your traps well.

Pictogram plus.png  Convincing a Medic to use a Kritzkrieg charge on you to lay sticky bombs can deal huge damage in a single hit. A cluster of critical stickybombs will take a huge chunk of its health away and can kill it very quickly.

Pictogram minus.png Playing as a Demoknight is risky as the Horsemann attacks if he feels something is blocking his movement, and a player will be made IT if they are closest when the Horsemann changes target.

Pictogram minus.png The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: Eyelander / Horseless Headless Horsemann's Headtaker / Nessie's Nine Iron, Persian Persuader, Claidheamh Mòr, and Half-Zatoichi.

Heavy.png
Heavy
vs HHH.png
Horseless Headless Horsemann

Pictogram info.png The Heavy is one of the best classes to go head-on against the Horsemann. Despite his resistance to Minigun bullets, any Minigun will shred the boss in a matter of seconds at short range, even without crits.

Pictogram info.png The Heavy is slow, thus vulnerable, if he does not have a Medic pocketing him ready to pull an Über if the Horsemann picks either of them as his next target. The G.R.U and the Buffalo Steak Sandvich give some time to prepare for escapes, especially if he is still firing if he is marked as IT.

Pictogram plus.png  A Heavy under the effects of a Kritzkrieg can shred the boss in mere seconds, and since the Horsemann targets those who are closest to him, and critical hits have no damage falloff, this can be done quite safely.

Pictogram plus.png  The Tomislav has good use for hit and run strategies, due to its faster spin-up time. Just remember that the fire rate is lower than the other Miniguns.

Pictogram minus.png The Shotgun should rarely be used, as the time between shots and damage spread mean you will always get more damage from your primary weapon. Nonetheless, if you have run out of ammunition for your primary weapon, remember that base damage remains constant while attacking the Horsemann, so you can use the Shotgun effectively from further ranges than normal.

Pictogram minus.png  The Brass Beast, even under a Kritzkrieg charge, is only recommended if the Horsemann is distracted and you are far away, since you are very slow while revving and moving with it, which gives the Horsemann and even the enemy team a good reason to attack you.

Pictogram minus.png The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: Natascha, Buffalo Steak Sandvich, Killing Gloves of Boxing, Fists of Steel, Warrior's Spirit, Eviction Notice, and Holiday Punch.

Engineer.png
Engineer
vs HHH.png
Horseless Headless Horsemann

Pictogram info.png Since the Horsemann is not affected by knock back, the player should never rely on his Sentry Gun to keep the monster away.

Pictogram info.png The Horsemann will attack anything he walks into - this includes players and buildings. He generally won't pay attention to them unless the player who is IT is alongside a building.

Pictogram plus.png Sentry Guns will target the Horsemann even when he is outside their normal range.

Pictogram plus.png Because Sentry Guns never deal critical hits (except mini-crits, which do not affect the Horsemann), your Sentry Gun can be an effective way to deal damage to the Horsemann without risking being marked as IT. Use the Wrangler for maximum damage.

Pictogram plus.png The Shotgun and Pistol can both be effective against the Horsemann as their base damage remains the same when attacking it. This will allow you to do more damage from a longer range than normal.

Pictogram minus.png The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: Widowmaker and Southern Hospitality.

Medic.png
Medic
vs HHH.png
Horseless Headless Horsemann

Pictogram info.png If you do not have an ÜberCharge ready, it is best advised to stay away and build one up, as the Horsemann attacks in order of whoever is closest.

Pictogram info.png Most of the Medic's weapons are relatively ineffective, so the Medic should be reserved to a support role. Use your ÜberCharge on teammates so they can attack the Horsemann.

Pictogram plus.png  If you are really aggressive against the Horsemann, then the Vita-Saw can allow you to deploy ÜberCharges more quickly. The health penalty is negligible since the Horsemann's axe is an instant kill anyway.

Pictogram minus.png It is risky to use the Quick-Fix or the Kritzkrieg against the Horsemann, as The Horsemann's melee attack takes 80% of the target's base (not current) health except against Übered players and Dead Ringer Spies. However, at a distance, the Kritzkrieg charge is effective at dispatching the Horsemann.

Pictogram minus.png The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: Blutsauger and Ubersaw.

Sniper.png
Sniper
vs HHH.png
Horseless Headless Horsemann

Pictogram info.png The basic Sniper Rifle has medium effectiveness against the Horsemann, as headshots do not deal extra damage. However, charging shots is still worthwhile as the damage will properly scale against the Horsemann. The Machina will deal slightly more damage in this regard.

Pictogram plus.png The Sydney Sleeper's faster charge rate makes it more useful than the standard Sniper Rifle, since the Sniper Rifle can not score headshots on the Horsemann.

Pictogram plus.png Additionally, the Huntsman is the only Sniper weapon that can cause critical hits upon headshotting the Horsemann.

Pictogram plus.png  The SMG is viable as a last resort weapon if the Horsemann is actively chasing you. You'll probably use up the three clips it has by the time he kills you anyway.

Pictogram minus.png The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: Bazaar Bargain, Cleaner's Carbine, Jarate, Tribalman's Shiv and Bushwacka.

Spy.png
Spy
vs HHH.png
Horseless Headless Horsemann

Pictogram info.png The Dead Ringer's feign death ability will allow you to survive one hit; however, the Horsemann will continue to follow you even when cloaked.

Pictogram plus.png The Revolver and the Enforcer are the most viable weapons to use, although they should only be used against the Horsemann if he is focused on another player.

Pictogram minus.png The Spy is rather ineffective against the Horsemann, as a Backstab only does normal knife damage, rendering its primary function useless.

Pictogram minus.png The following weapons may be less effective against the Horsemann, due to his immunity to fire, stun, bleeding, mini-crits, on-hit and on-kill attributes: Ambassador, L'Etranger, Your Eternal Reward / Wanga Prick, Conniver's Kunai and Big Earner.